Why Across the Spider-Verse Worked and Multiverse of Madness Didn't - SCENE FIGHTS!

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Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse is a sprawling multiversal superhero movie with character at its heart. And we noticed that another Marvel movie, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, is very similar. In fact, we think that both movies have one similar scene that shows why one was a success, and the other didn't meet expectations.
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Brianna McLarty, Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, and Lee Mazzio
#SpiderVerse2 #DrStrange2 #SceneFights
These two movies are very similar, but one is a visual triumph that uses the multiverses to tell a character-based story, and the other is most remembered for this [mr fantastic death].
Now I’m not hating on Multiverse of Madness, I think it’s a really great Sam Raimi video, but a mediocre Multiverse movie. And I think that, within these two similar movies, there is one similar scene, that shows why one movie is this clip]. But the other is this [clip].
First, let’s break down the similarities.
And before we get rolling everyone, thanks for watching our chanel, and please check out our rch store where you can get this doug pointing meme shirt, lots of other cool merch, and we also have a podcast that’s on all of the things, and a tiktok and insta where we make original videos you cannot see on KZbin.
Now, both movies are obviously multiverse stories set in or adjacent to the Marvel Cinematic Universe-but the way these stories are told are remarkably similar.
Both movies start with a prologue where a teenage, female hero is betrayed by a mentor figure that she trusts. Gwen’s dad tries to unmask and arrest his daughter, while Defender Strange tries to steal the powers of America Chavez [clip]. These scenes end with the young woman escaping into the multiverse, where they met our hero.
The lead character is a superhero who is feeling lonely and isolated after the events of their origin story movie, and of the last crossover event. Miles misses his spider-friends, and Stephen has abandoned a normal life with Christine. So these heroes are conflicted between their personal and private lives-and this internal conflict is at the heart of the movie. For Stephen, it’s the question [are you happy].
And for miles, it is whether or not his family can accept his double life as spider-man. Also, both heroes also recently prevented a multiversal criss with variants of Spider-Man. And in the last movie, the central spider-man hero was partially responsible for the chaos.
The hero begins the movie at a social function where the work / life imbalance really shows-the hero is distant from his loved ones. Both movies also begin ih the heroes having to choose between fighting a villain, or attending a personal event.
Then the hero encounters a being with the power to travel the multiverse, and they have a very public fight on the streets of New York City. [archer, just say NY]
And then the hero meets up with a young woman who has the power to travel the multiverse. This woman is basically running away from home-although America is doing this unintentionally. So the hero travels the multiverse with this woman-entering strange new universes that are vibrant and a lot of fun.
Well, Manhattan is a lot of fun, but Stephen just flips through these universes like Hammy channel surfing. [toy story clip]
The two of them encounter a team of variant heroes that are real crowd pleasers. [applause for reed richards]. One of these heroes is someone that the hero trusts-baron Karl Mordo, and Peter B Parker. But it turns out that these heroes are secret villains, who betray the hero because they are a threat to the multiverse. Though, bth of these heroes believe that they are acting for the greater good of the multiverse.
This leads to a confrontation between the hero and all of the variants. The variants are worried about the hero because he is reckless. Miles is an anomaly who has destabilized the multiverse, and Stepehn is told [greatest threat ...is you].
But meanwhile, there is another, greater threat to the multiverse who was kind of a secret villain who appeared in the previous movie. The spot was bagel guy, here [clip]. And early in the movie he is a total joke who we did not expect to become a threat to the multiverse. And wanda is a twist villain, who completely undermined her arc in wandavision.
Doug: Is that a similarity?
No, but I haven't forgotten.

[@hypnoticdelta7937]

When Ryan said there were similarities between movies, I thought "sure, yeah I could imagine some" and then he just kept going and going...Actually wild the amount of similarities.

[@losgryfog]

And that's a perfect example of why y'all don't know wtf y'all are talking about. Half of the people talking shit about DS didn't even watch it

[@jjstarrprod]

@@losgryfog I watched it. Liked it, but felt a bit frustrated by how little we actually saw from the Multiverse (and don't get me started on how Wanda went from a grieving depressed mother on her way up to redemption at the end of Wandavision, straight up to bloody psychopath crazy mom mass murderer in MoM). And after seeing the actual Multiversal madness that was Everything Everywhere All At Once, I felt "Oh !? THAT'S how it could have been !?"

[@LadyAstarionAncunin]

I can't remember the name of the channel, but there was a channel that focused on making a long list of ways that two films that didn't seem in any way related were the same movie. It was really interesting. And a unique concept for a channel as far as I know.

[@justacontrarian]

Ironically, Dr. Strange was the most relatable in the animated "What If?" series. Arguably the best episode, aside from hearing Chad Boseman one last time.

[@mon_nobi]

Right, that definitely added to the hype of MoM because of the connection to Strange Supreme, but it definitely didn't live up to the hype

[@1LIFEtoWIN]

The dark Strange episode is the best episode of that series

[@TimothyMorigeau]

Wow I didn’t realize how many similarities there are between the two movies. I think the pandemic really didn’t help with the filming of MOM unfortunately. But also I heard that Sam Raime and the main writer of MOM didn’t even watch Wandavision. What a disappointment.

[@saturncrush]

Why such a careless error was allowed by Kevin Feige makes me question so much? And they did not give us Mephisto, Ghost Rider, or just go full Demonic did not help. 😬

[@jjstarrprod]

Well, one reason why he didn't watch it might have to do with the fact that Wandavision wasn't out yet while they were shooting MoM (although the lockdowns did delay the shooting of the movie for quite a long time, enough for the show to come out, but again, spoiler alert, not all MCU directors watch the rest of the MCU movies. Even the Russos brothers might not have seen all the previous MCU movies prior to Civil War and the Infinity duology). Also, the fact that Kevin Feige keeps every single show or movie's script a national secret is certainly not helping for communication between each screenwriters/directors, he even admitted he was just stretched too thin inbetween the onslaught of MCU content during all of phase 4, which is why he hired Sam Raimi here, thinking he wouldn't need to keep his eyes on him, since he kinda started his career under Sam's tutelage. But he forgot that the interconnectivity of the MCU that he built is an entirely other beast than what Sam used to do for his own Spiderman closed-universe trilogy. It's one of these rare instances where the disciple actually surpassed the master.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@jjstarrprod "Also, the fact that Kevin Feige keeps every single show or movie's script a national secret is certainly not helping for communication between each screenwriters/directors, he even admitted he was just stretched too thin inbetween the onslaught of MCU content during all of phase 4, which is why he hired Sam Raimi here, thinking he wouldn't need to keep his eyes on him, since he kinda started his career under Sam's tutelage. But he forgot that the interconnectivity of the MCU that he built is an entirely other beast than what Sam used to do for his own Spiderman closed-universe trilogy. It's one of these rare instances where the disciple actually surpassed the master" Say what now?

[@CAVSHOOT]

ikr. also its animated vs live action...realize how hard is that while in pandemic???? i gues he dont realize it

[@jjstarrprod]

@@dylansharp8471 yeah, sorry, that was a bit convoluted. Back in chronological order : -In the 2000's, Sam Raimi directed Spiderman 1,2 and 3. It was already a monumental task for a single director to have built a trilogy of a Superhero, and already back in the day, he was met with lot of studio interference for the 3rd episode, making it crumble down. Meanwhile, a young hopeful and aspiring production assistant named Kevin Feige started his career on this trilogy (and also some of the X-Men movies). - fast forward 20 years later, said Kevin Feige has now built an entire cinematic universe about superheroes, and since his universe just kept growing wider and wider, he starts to lose control of it all, not being able to keep all of them as tightly under his tutelage. That's why he invited his old mentor, Sam Raimi, to take care of Dr Strange 2, since he knows Sam is a veteran superhero movie director who shouldn't need his supervision. What he (Kevin) underestimated, was the sheer size of his own interconnected universe, something Sam never had to deal with (he already had trouble with just his own trilogy of Spiderman), so dropping Sam on the MCU, it's kind of normal that Sam wouldn't know much of what happened before his movie, nor after, nor really cared about it. Also, since each and every project's story is always heavily secret, sometimes even from cast and crews from different projects, that doesn't help with the interconnectivity, which is why MoM feels so disconnected from Spiderman No Way Home and Wandavision, even though it's supposed to be a direct sequel to both. And sure, the pandemic and its lockdowns didn't help, since MoM was supposed to be the introduction movie to the Multiverse and supposed to come out before No Way Home (there are even some concept arts of No Way Home showing that it was America Chavez who opened the Spider portals, not Ned), but its shooting was so heavily delayed by the lockdowns that it could only come out afterwards, which led to a lot of scramblings and reshoots to retroactively fit in the whole MCU timeline.

[@alexanderdumas-]

One had a multiverse, one had New York with trees.

[@KeitieKalopsia]

lol

[@manu201022]

Because there is an actual fight between the protagonist (Miles) and antagonist (Miguel/Spider Society) and Miles manages to outsmart and win against everybody. That is exactly what is missing in Multiverse of Madness, a proper concluding fight between the hero and villain. They could have redeemed it with having a proper fight between Zombie Strange and Scarlet Witch but instead they turned it into Scarlet Witch vs America Chavez fight which nobody desired.

[@bonkgiartist]

Really liked how Everything Everywhere All At Once dealt with the multiverse concept too.

[@charleslee8313]

both involved a bagel

[@jjstarrprod]

EEAAO and Across the Spiderverse really schooled MoM on how to be a multiverse movie. And for a fraction of the budget ! (MoM cost north of 200M, while Spiderverse cost half, and EEAAO cost 1/10th of it)

[@bonkgiartist]

⁠@@jjstarrprod Agreed.

[@losgryfog]

​@@jjstarrprod y'all people live in an imaginary world. Y'all don't like DS because it was the popular thing to do

[@losgryfog]

​@@jjstarrprod both of those movies are RIPOFFS of MoM

[@aced018]

I don't believe that it's accurate to classify Miguel as the villain of the movie or to say that Peter and Gwen were secret villains. They were all heroes but Miles and Miguel were just opposing forces. While they each had different goals, neither one could be considered the bad guy. Sure Miguel was a bit of an a-hole in this movie, but it was due to all the stress he was under and the trauma he was carrying from losing his daughter as well as an entire universe. In the end, all Miguel wanted to do was save everyone and keep the multiverse safe, he just became jaded along the way. And as far as Peter and Gwen go, they were both faced with an impossibly difficult decision and they both genuinely loved Miles. They were both trying to keep him safe while knowing that there would be a terrible outcome. They couldn't even bring themselves to telling Miles about the truth. Again, none of this made any of them villains. They were just good people forced to make hard decisions.

[@KamenRaidenDorysamy]

Well said 🫡

[@JumpBrothers]

I agree

[@matthewburton6360]

I don't think the classification of Villain is correct either. Not in its true meaning. Miguel was the antagonist which is the opposing force to the protagonist and was one of the many things I really liked about the movie. We didn't need a big bad villain, Spot was relegated to the backseat and at the end we realize how powerful and scary he actually is.

[@conorandkanohi]

Antagonist, not villain

[@johndevin1193]

He didn't lose any daughter. That being said tho, father-daughter is a bond that can be created even if they are not blood related. I just contradict myself.

[@emilyhassel7914]

Also it was so frustrating that Wanda was the villain. Imagine if the movie showed her corruption in progress.. I heard nightmare was going to be a villain.. would have been so cool

[@HagathTheTemptress]

Yeah, they just turned her into villain off screen and even didn't connect it well with WandaVision :/

[@jayw3512]

They should’ve used Nightmare, Mephisto or Kang (since they want Kang via multiverse). They should’ve had either of these 3 manipulating Wanda. Then, Vision or Clint try to talk Wanda down, but it enrages her more. Perhaps, Strange and Wanda discover either Mephisto, Nightmare or Kang are manipulating her, so Wanda slowly goes back to hero and they go after those villains mentioned.

[@drakephysecron6775]

I read from somewhere that the original plan was tp have a differemet antagonist(the one setup in the first movie if i remember cprrectly) ad this movie as the realization of wanda that she can have her kids back throught the multivers.

[@vampiritazz]

i will never forget the rumor of mark hamill as nightmare.....LIKEEEEE MARK HAMMIL!!! AS NIGHTMARE !!!

[@LazyReaderKanon]

The part where Strange is betrayed gave me goosebumps. Some stories and characters have so much potential. Sometimes it hurts to hear them.

[@Mr.8point5]

This video just makes me feel even more confident that I want more animated films because way there are fewer limits and even voice actors doing lines separately vs real live actors not being on screen together can still work lol

[@maxtouro8902]

One of the most disappointing parts of the Dr Strange movie was how easily the all powerful illuminati that we had waited so long to see in the MCU was destroyed so easily. Now that I have heard your suggestion on how they should have handled it, I wish they had done that. Not only would it have meant more to Dr. Strange, but we would have gotten to see the Illuminati introduced in a different movie.

[@ayashwanth7601]

One major problem with "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" is that it is titled "Multiverse of Madness". Had it been titled something else, atleast it wouldn't feel like we were cheated even if they stick to just one parallel universe without showing multiple universes like how this movie already is. And the Doctor Strange related characters idea to include Ancient One, Mordo etc would have been really awesome also in terms of the story, character arc and emotion.

[@gabrielmurray929]

Across the Spider-Verse also ended on two cliffhangers both with Miles, and with Gwen and the Spider-Gang.

[@GOODYGOODGOOD789]

Peter B. Parker isn’t secretly a villain he tried to help Miles by talking with him, and that was his main goal not trying to stop Miles.

[@lisamarieligreci-newton7804]

I was just ranting about this topic and thank you for articulating why the 'multiverse' in Multiverse of Madness just didn't totally work. Sure, it was a fun movie, I didn't hate it, but I wanted so much more from it. It just made the multiverse (and its characters) feel disposable and replaceable/interchangeable. And I also haven't forgotten Wanda's arc being swept aside. And speaking of Wanda, one other thing I was chewing on is that the root (or at least part of) Miguel's villainy was that he wanted to go to a universe where he could be with his children again, which was kind of an interesting inverse of Wanda trying to find a universe with her kids (although she was willing to just off herself instead of find one where she died). Although in Miguel's case he tried it, it failed spectacularly, and now he's obsessed with any other deviations. In any case, it's a character who is punished for a similar goal.

[@PhatAthlete]

If Miles is an anomaly, why is his dad’s death a canon event?

[@Treck533]

It’s not. That’s gonna be the twist. Gwen’s dad literally avoided it by quiting his job

[@MungeParty]

Chief's death is the cannon event I think.

[@AriSafari293]

Huge plot hole , none his life should be cannon, he shouldn’t be in the web at all and his universe should have basically collapsed when the OG Peter died.

[@kuroha4383]

​@@AriSafari293that's not a plot hole because we shouldn't take whatever Miguel said as fact. If anything that only prove Miguel has always been bullshit about those "canon event", and that universe collapse may have been another issue.

[@thembanitheone]

I care a lot about Stephen since the awesome and beautiful first movie. I hate the "it's just magic Iron Man" criticism because that doesn't even hold up. The similarities between the two protagonists and the story beats are purely cosmetic and surface-level and if you look deeper than just that top scratch they diverge from each other in interesting ways for each character. Tony never ever lost the things that made him successful and special.. he just removed the distractions that were holding him back from being truly great. Stephen absolutely did lose all of those things (at least he thought he did) and had to rebuild an entirely new sense of self through some hard lessons about letting go and persevering through the hardship.

[@DMacB42]

It's wild to think of the 180 Sony Pictures Animation underwent from Emoji Movie to Spiderverse

[@Time7ord]

Agree 100 percent. Was not excited at all about Raimi directing MOM. He had his own agenda that was not in service to the story, the characters, or the fans.

[@thecunninlynguist]

Spider verse worked cause i felt that sense of urgency....for MoM they shouldn't have switched the releases with nwh. Mom works better as an intro to nwh than it does as a follow up.

[@jr4android]

it’s not a follow up to NWH. it’s a follow up to wandavision and Doctor Strange 1

[@thecunninlynguist]

​@@jr4androidit uses what nwh laid down for the multiverse...but it originally was going to release before nwh.

[@jr4android]

@@thecunninlynguist it doesn’t use anything from NWH. the only connection to NWH is a random line. America Chavez was originally supposed to be Peter’s access to the multiverse in no way home. she was going to be the person to bring Tobey and Andrew into the MCU. thats the only real change that happened because of the switching

[@KeitieKalopsia]

I was _not_ expecting the list of similarities to be MULTIPLE MINUTES LONG WOW that’s a lot more than I thought

[@l.u.i.s._.8452]

“Don’t even get me started on doctor strange and that little nerd” -Miguel

[@hexagonshorts2186]

I love how MoM roasts Spidey for his name while ATSV roasts Dr Strange for his name.

[@edafeokoh6030]

Maybe it’s just me, but MoM was absolutely spectacular. I never thought anything about it was mediocre

[@y.ajmal1304]

It's really wierd how most people thought it was a good movie when it came out that just didn't have enough of the multiverse. Now I've seen people saying it's absolute garbage.

[@bencressman6110]

I had to force myself to finish watching it. I had so many bones to pick and was fully aware of them as I was watching. I think it depends on how invested you are in the MCU, and how well versed you are in storytelling and movie production.

[@jr4android]

they both worked for me. both are great movies. one of them is just able to do more because it’s animation

[@crimson414]

How can you say that about mom when it is mediocre at best

[@jr4android]

@@crimson414 to you

[@StarryCuriosity]

@@jr4android facts

[@losgryfog]

​@@crimson414 stfu Y'all ruined MoM by nitpicking and making a million trailer explained videos before ever watching the movie

[@teinelona7]

Cool run down as usual and the similarities are so clear now that you point them out. I didn't have a problem with the Dr Strange Multiverse but you're right, the emotional push that was obvious in SpiderVerse is just not there for Steven Strange. He wouldn't have made fun of those close to him and I think the realization of what needed to be done would've been more profound. I always thought it was weird that his attachment to America happened so quickly given his predisposed nature to detach more than anything. She was certainly important but emotional ties to what is after all a little girl albeit a powerful one felt off for me for Dr Strange.

[@itsstoreytime]

Thank you for breaking this down, much more succinctly than I could have!

[@tenkenroo]

The thing is it felt like MOM did not bother to look at the previous installments to expand on them. Across the spider verse felt like the creators of it looked at the previous installment and looked for points to expand on. As much as I liked both Spiderverse had more care to develop the world and plot.

[@Bartholomew-wj5th]

Across the spider-verse made me miss scott derrickson. That corpse dessert concept art was awesome.

[@RX552VBK]

You got this one right, Ryan! Great breakdown analyst on both films.

[@misterburger4648]

I do not think they undermined the progress Wanda made on WandaVision... I think, in Multiverse of Madness, they made her pain real! For one, Grief is a rollercoaster! I think the moment she realized what she did, to the people of the town of Westview, she felt genuine guilt and learned some things from the experience. However, Grief can come back and bring you right back down, out of nowhere, once you have experienced great loss. Two, we all know that the character of Wanda Maximoff is the duality of being emotionally intelligent while also being mentally unstable. So, it would make sense for her to have the insight to know what she is doing is wrong and not want to do it, but then just crack and do what she needs to do to heal her pain. Which leads to number three, she has the power to heal her pain! This a mentally unstable person who has the power to literally re-write history - Imagine if you lost a loved one and you could could just make them come back, or you're homeless and you can use your power to rewrite that you live in a mansion with a deed in your name of the property! I know I'd do it!

[@zengamer21]

Peter B Parker isn't a villain. He's merely an antagonist. Multiverse of Madness didn't end on a cliffhanger. A cliffhanger leaves the main story unresolved. MoM ended on a tease for the next movie.

[@Stevejake12]

The problem with Multiverse of Madness is how it was super underwhelming despite its title and hype. While on the other hand Spiderman Across the spider verse was pure chaotic, something multiverse should have been.

[@dillongill8009]

that was bang on when you said they spoiled stuff in the trailer. I got so hyped because professor x was in the trailer, so I was thinking they were hiding so much from us. Maybe that's my own fault for getting too excited, but their marketing didn't help.

[@DJ_V_squared]

I think that Multiverse of Madness didn’t take enough risks.

[@turnerjazz7872]

"Put you down like a dog" needed a reaction from Doug. He can't just let that slide.

[@ramihajyounesmontoya5194]

I agree. The simple solution could have been the time when 838 Strange killed Thanos and caused an incursion. Or right after but either way, seeing Strange causing so much destruction because of the Darkhold firsthand had the potential to make the stakes much more personal for our Strange. Hell, he could have helped the Illuminati defeat Strange and subdue him and that could be the scene where the Illuminati kill 838 Strange.

[@frostbite.711]

Imagine if the final boss fight had been 838 Strange vs. our Strange and the Illuminati. That would have been more interesting than what we got. I feel like Wanda's development from WandaVision was written over which is sad because she had become one of my fave characters but quickly became one of my least fave with how she acted in MOM.

[@robd92]

Agree with all the points Ryan laid out for us.

[@Quanic2000]

The theater I was in had a huge ovation for when Andrew Garfield popped up in No Way Home 🤷‍♂️

[@allanbroady2970]

I think everyone gets the Arc in WandaVision completely off with how it ended in realtion to MoM. In now way shape or form was Wanda "redeemed" from what she did in WandaVision. The illusion was just completely broken which makes here acts that she does in MoM completely click.

[@doktrulok24]

And this is why I love this channel

[@GrindHardPeezy]

My boy said “ I was pleased…at first” 😅😂😂😂

[@betacancri1476]

Telling stories via animation will ALWAYS be superior to live action simply because there is no limit on how you visualize the story.

[@wambokodavid7109]

Thank you.... finally some body gets it.esp superheroes shit.look at anime.....only animation can pull that shit off

[@zacharycollins9485]

9:05 "we get to check in on Tobey and Andrew Garfield redeems his Gwen fail." Not to nit-pick and I love your show Ryan, but you've gotta know that at the end of the NWH climactic battle, Tobey actually saves the Green Goblin from dying by being hit with the Goblin glider - like he did in the first SM movie. ✌️😆

[@paychexx]

This was great..and to be fair. Animation is easier to tell the story. MoM was definitely was rushed. The other Bob was disrupting the flow of the movies and stories, but caring more about subscriptions and money than the stories and the "Look". Hence why the other Bob was fired and Old Bob came back and the schedule got readjusted. I love Across The Spider-Verse. You are absolutely right about, the Illuminati. it should have been characters that Strange knows. That why it just felt like bunch of things at once.

[@4chao1999]

Spot on about all your criticisms. It should be the character and story first, the multiverse second.

[@MrBergste]

It sure as hell wasn't silent at my theater when Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man first appeared in No Way Home. We all stood up and cheered our asses off and then did so again when Tobey showed up.

[@abdelali9279]

6:35 ohmigosh, you're right, I haven't watched this movie at home, but I remember the premiere and my friend and I were fanboying when we saw Andrew Garfield's spidey appear that I didn't realize, those are proper applause pauses like if they were some kind of sitcom from the 80's or 90's, at least they were kind enough to use canned applauses otherwise the silence is very akward and pacing killing. 13:21 and the contrast with the Spider-Man movie where we get to see Andrew Garfield's spidey again holding Cpt. Stacey, but this was more of a, if you catch it nice, if not we're still moving on, because they may have shown like a couple of seconds but Miguel didn't stop his exposition, he kept on going, and I realize that when my friend and I were fanboying we have to shut up otherwise we won't hear the rest of the story.

[@adamlane2490]

The undeniable fact that when it comes to the unbelievable animation always wins.

[@pamelasanchez623]

Doug is so freaking cute❕💕💞💞💕🥺 “but.. captain carter”😆💕💞💕

[@anionhero]

While I did really enjoy watching Multiverse of Madness, I believe you're right. It would have been so much better to use the people Strange knew on the Multiverse Council and save the Illuminati for another movie. Wanda could have still had the scene of Killing the Council, but it wouldn't have cheapened the Illuminati like the scene did in the movie. I mean it was the equivalent of in instead of Thanos beating the Hulk when the Hulk attacked, they instead had the Hulk beat Thanos and take the Infinity Gauntlet from him while saying, "Puny Titan!" It would have made Thanos less threatening knowing that all that was needed was one angry Hulk to beat him. By having Wanda take down the Illuminati so easily, they have lost all creditability as potential threats to anyone. I mean the next time they show up, anyone who opposes them can say, "Hey! Wanda is back! Don't make me prove I have her on speed dial!" They will turn tail and run.

[@alfredhinton8792]

Why didn’t the chatecters from no way home glitch out? Vulture didn’t glitch when he went to morbius. And shouldn’t that piece of venom be glitching?

[@dylansharp8471]

That does seem weird, but people have come up w/ explanations.

[@alfredhinton8792]

@@dylansharp8471 the Kangs probably fixed so they don’t glitch when outside their dimensions. And Loki series takes place outside of time. Since they are all connected I want them to explain why spiderverse multiverse glitches and mcu don’t

[@AthleticBowling]

Doug:"Move on I don't care" hahahahaha...loved it! @screencrush

[@gingerrocco]

Totally nailed it again. You taking notes Fiege??

[@aceshaman]

Dr. Strange is my favorite hero. It was crushing to go see this in theater just to be disappointed with the lack of character development. When i immigened, what was perpossed, people steven strange knew, and loved showing him how threatening he could be. It made me cry. We missed out on such a great and touching moment. I've never been all that interested in the Spider movies, but after this, im definitely gonna check them out.

[@TheRealRevelation]

There was no silence in my home when the cameos popped up, watching both movies for the first time in my home… even when I constantly watch spoilers. 🤣

[@davidnabbit]

I haven’t been watching a lot of trailers recently specifically to avoid spoilers. For me, the Illuminati reveal was a total surprise. I could see how spoilers would be hard to avoid when your job is to obsessively deconstruct every bit of information though.

[@tyrionstark]

Do you think animation plays a part in the success of the storytelling?

[@redtomato4903]

Yes. If you watched both movies without sound and subtitles, you can AtSV much more easily tell where each character is at in their story through backgrounds, expressions, color, and movement. MoM has a lot more telling than showing and could feel like it jumps from one place to another too much

[@jamalcorbin5542]

Didn’t see the second Spiderverse movie just yet - I loved the first one, and I will absolutely be seeing the second, probably more than once - but I just wanted to say that Dr. Strange multiverse movie worked just fine for me.

[@candelamomohualpa7909]

scene fights are my only reason to wake up in the morning

[@Takarr]

13:03 😂😂 I love Doug

[@Beingmeasme]

Wow. This was a masterclass.

[@FEWEDZI]

Solid break down

[@Br33zeKooL]

I'm happy I dont watch trailers anymore. I'll watch the teaser announcement, then ghost everything until release. So I still genuinely get surprised in the cinema.

[@moseskim3942]

More Doug please. The dog is great.

[@nahitwashimyo3126]

Damn you got me with that AD cut haha

[@KidAstronaut]

This was spot on man. I didn't see this perspective of MOM initially but great job covering the overall story and what makes a great MOVIE sans the fan context. I love both movies a lot though!

[@danielbautista9062]

“Don’t even get me started on Doctor Strange and the little nerd back on Earth- 199999.” So the Spider-Verse is connected to the MCU?

[@nikolap490]

The writers explained that it was a throwaway reference. And when you think about it, the ties between the MCU and Spider-Verse are just Miguel O'Hara bringing up NWH and the MCU Prowler (or some variant thereof) popping up for less than a minute. So basically all we have are jokes that only go one way (the MCU has never referenced the Spider-Verse trilogy). I'm not sure you can call it connections.

[@Doctor_Rich]

There was one member of the illuminati that Dr Strange had a personal connection with and that was Baron Mordo.

[@Qui-Bong-Jin]

Love the video as always, Your friend Ash from NOLA ❤

[@erikagholston6610]

Wow you summed up what I was feeling after the Dr. Strange movie perfectly.

[@Ironhart]

Miles didn’t go to earth 42 and take the spider! The spider decided to jump to his earth and bite him for a reason, and not the miles from earth 42. He’s probably was evil and it could tell. And it was trying to find someone worthy of it

[@nicole692z]

Both are good!!!

[@mckinniesmovies3598]

0:30/4:41/5:12/6:19/6:40+6:45/7:13/7:22 8:41/9:04/10:17/10:57/12:17/13:50/14:02 14:50/16:01/16:15

[@nicholasgarrick8855]

I love both film but interm of storytelling, and animation across of the spiderverse is better telling multiverse concept more than Marvel.

[@orcuntav4191]

I was waiting for to see The Ancient One in MoM, there should've been at least a variant of ancient one

[@farhan-momin]

yeah, Madness vs Sadness

[@jonathanampt3490]

YES YES YES!!!! YOU ARE CORRECT

[@REALLIQUE]

What if in doctor strange the two different cliffhangers were set in two different universes?? Like the first one where he pops up with the eye is 611 and then the second one with Clea was from a completely different one. Could be an interesting twist

[@augusteweyrick2840]

I actually love both movies. And the Illuminati works for mom because of how strong and smart they are. They know doctor strange is a threat because he’s not from there universe. You can also say the same with across the Spider verse.

[@zombiiiscream1020]

I literally keep forgetting America chavez even exists

[@pucknorris3473]

My favorite part of the wanda killing the illuminati scene is when I realized doctor strange could have very easily handled them all the same way.

[@carlosatausupa8429]

GOJO SATURO VS WANDA/SCARLET WITCH

[@motor4X4kombat]

@@carlosatausupa8429 gojo: wanda i don't to hurt your feeling but since i control the limitless you can ever touch me wanda: what limitless? gojo: *pokes her nose* well shit... wanda: *process to ripp him in half*

[@carlosatausupa8429]

@@motor4X4kombat Gojo is not Mr Fantastic who talks a lot; so idem

[@motor4X4kombat]

@@carlosatausupa8429 he talked a lot when he meet jogo he even let him see how his barrier work

[@101000102]

Doug is the best dog on the internet!

[@sawjames6620]

I would love to See Professor X in the Marvels movie or Secret invasion because his live interest was the queen of the Shi-ar Tribe, rivals of the Skrulls!

[@j-10k64]

Wow watched both movies but didn’t think about this much lol

[@plusgirlbworld]

this has nothing yo do with the vid but you and your dog are starting to look alike! I can't unsee it.

[@kwamintaylor4247]

Yeah if someone said there would be a movie dealing with 1.)x-men 2.( fantastic 4 3.)Illuminati 4.) the multiverse You would expect a much better movie. It was a missed opportunity dealing with what should have been epic MCU events. Instead, it felt very forgettable

[@sarahcurtis693]

Doug is very cute. Ryan is cute too.Both are adorable puppies in my heart.

[@1rhpsfan]

16:37 Rami, what were you thinking?

[@daiquonslater6416]

I agree

[@ScreenCrush]

To get your Doug Spider-meme shirt, go here → screencrushmerch.com/

[@delmarfrazier2727]

What are you talking about old man 👴

[@TheatricsOfTheAbsurd]

Can Doug get a channel Please. He steals the show. Sorry dogs are croud pleasers

[@mohdsuliemanbinabdullah2551]

Next Video I got two theories 1) What If Miguel did not universe previously but was Ultron Vision from Marvel What If series 2) What If Kand decide war on Spider Verse

[@zacharycollins9485]

9:05 "we get to check in on Tobey and Andrew Garfield redeems his Gwen fail." Not to nit-pick and I love your show Ryan, but you've gotta know that at the end of the NWH climactic battle, Tobey actually saves the Green Goblin from dying by being hit with the Goblin glider - like he did in the first SM movie. ✌️😆

[@demetriusdavis3434]

Animation budget and I motion picture budget don't even compare you tripping

[@metzmon1]

I loved both films! The whole "Multiverse of Madness didn't work" narrative baffles me. I thought it was excellent and would have been even more so if the shooting schedule hadn't been disrupted by the pandemic and, even after that, if Raimi's full cut had been released. Raimi had a strong horror vision for "Multiverse of Madness," but Disney/MCU was afraid to go all the way there with him. Nonetheless, the film took in close to a billion dollars at the box office and was the fourth-highest-grossing film of 2022. A lot of films would LOVE to "not work" like that!

[@behrenje]

Well said. I'm still baffled at Ryan's take on MoM regarding Wanda's arc. In WandaVision, Wanda was never the hero, and was never 'redeemed'. She held a town hostage, literally causing pain and torture to families. By the end of the show, sure, she "releases" the hex, then immediately skips town. She says "goodbye" to fake Vision and her fake kids, but is clearly still in a significant amount of emotional agony. She is very clearly quite unstable. She has JUST realized how CRAZY powerful she is, has JUST learned that she's actually a crazy powerful witch (with an official witch name that dates back millennia) with potentially limitless power, and she leaves WITH a book that she's told is as dangerous as any book ever. And holy shit, she starts studying said evil book, alone, secluded halfway across the world with only her thoughts and the Darkhold to keep her comapny! She absolutely 1000% was perfectly setup as a villain of a subsequent movie. If would have been batshit stupid if there wasn't a significant (negative) consequence for her tapping into the Darkhold. Wanda's arc in MoM was fantastic, and made total sense given the arc in WandaVision. And it was quite emotional - Olsen's emotional portrayal was fantastic and moving. The scenes with her kids were heart wrenching as she slowly finally started to acknowledge the 'evil' she had become corrupted by, the same evil she was (clearly) becoming corrupted by in her confused state in WandaVision as she started to understand her power more and more. I also find it odd to compare animated movies to live action; it's basically apples and oranges. Having an unlimited media canvas allows the portrayal of unlimited creativity, most of which simply is not possible through live action. This absolutely dictates the writing, obviously. Stephen's emotional journey revolved around Christine, and it worked. Wanda's emotional arc involved her kids and her struggle in her own corruption. It all worked, IMHO. Spiderman ITSV had the visual medium to do some extremely creative and emotional story telling, which also worked.

[@rjk537]

MoM was a good movie but falsely marketed or atleast didn't justify it's name. people expected to see something more multiversal and more cameos and all that. More different versions of the characters we know

[@HalfKort]

That’s interesting because my theater went completely crazy as soon as Andrew came on the screen in Spider-Man

[@IsiahBradley]

THANKS for this!!! I sympathize with Doug but agree with you. IIRC, the MoM trailer was made by corporate, not Feige. And there was no silence in my theater when Andrew Garfield showed up! As a 20th-century comics fan, I don't have that kind of Illuminati attachment. But you're right in that liked the Illuminati cameo more than the movie. Ironically, your excellent critique has made me like the film a little more. I think your suggestions were "death" with in the much-better Dr. Strange "What If."

[@Mr.A2099]

When Miguel (spiderman 2099) was describing his universe being destroyed, it sounded like an incursion, if he entered another universe for a long period of time. Is it possible if he simply mistook an incursion for a canon event, because we don't really get another example throughout the movie? more evidence is that when a canon event is broken sometimes, the world doesn't collapse, such as spiderman not existing on earth 42 and whatever the venom universe is. The only other time we see a universe being destroyed because of a "canon event" being broken was in Mumbattan, which could possibly be because Miles and Gwen were in that universe for a while. That technically means that Miguel is making the multiverse worse because he's bringing spider-people from other universes into his own and others. please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@yoshifan4569]

I have to say: I love that you have Batman Forever behind you.

[@sakshipandit9666]

wow amazing video

[@iNDERUdmg]

Here's my theory: Miguel (Spiderman 2099) didn't destroy that universe because of a "canon event", but because he was in a universe that wasn't his for too long (similar to how the evil doctor strange destroyed his universe). Miguel is desperate to give his loss meaning to the point that he's enforcing all these rules without real proof - and Miles (especially since he isn't Peter Parker) doesn't actually have to play by these rules. I think in the end we'll find out that neither does Miguel (since he isn't Peter Parker either). After some big showdown - he'll learn this from Miles.

[@shantaezon3618]

Essentially because they had the Illuminati exposed in ads from the beginning, awkward pause breaks as they are intro'd, made no personal connections from them to Strange other than Mordo, and had them immediately killed before they could even show their strength nerfed them and bogged down the movie. I'm glad you used ATSV as an example of a good Multiverse movie.

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

2:41 DID U JUST CALL PETER B. PARKER A SECRET VILLAIN? Hes not at all. I think you meant Miguel O'Hara. Peter B. Was with Miles the whole time.

[@KamenRaidenDorysamy]

Same here. Peter B. Parker isn't a villain. Miguel isn't villain ether. He is just a broken Spider-Man who been through a lot of hardship just like another spider person. Like losing his daughter and a universe.

[@KamenRaidenDorysamy]

Yes he could be more clam instead of being an ass when he told right at miles face that he is a mistake.