Why Adding Water WON'T Save Your Dry Pack Concrete

Yep, we read all the comments. "You just need to add a little water to that dry pack concrete and you'll be good to go!" Really though?
Today I put it directly to the test and cure some dry pack concrete with water poured over the top. Let's see how it does.

[@JacoBadenhorst]

As a civil engineer, I want to say: "Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!" For the first time someone does not run after the "dry pack" method. There is a reason why we have been properly mixing concrete for the last couple of 100 years. The problem with dry pack is that the outer skin of the dry cement hydrates (Chemical reaction between water and cementitious material) and prevents water from penetrating deeper into the concrete. Then the rest of the cementitious material is effectively starved of water and cannot properly Hydrate. At 6 days you were about 50% of concrete strength. At 28 days it would have been a totally different story. You would have had to pack lunch for the sledge work, as you would have been busy for a while. in short....If you are thinking of doing dry pack concrete, STOP, sit still and think about something else. Thank you for very informative videos.

[@johndavis3604]

As a welder in the deep South I can't tell how many miles of pipe fence we built we've always used dry set and add water a little before and after and we've had to pull these post up when trees fell on them to this day since I started 1986 we've never had a problem we use a sledgehammer to hit the 2 and 3/8 pipe to get the concrete off and it's still always holds pretty good not sure about the test I just know what's work for us

[@stenvau5180]

I have now built some fences, and I have found that the best method is to add 50% less water to the mix than what is normally needed. It sets fast and absorbs any extra water from the ground whats needed. It is easy to set it level, and high winds do not push the posts out of alignment

[@chargermopar]

Professional concrete chef! You know they used to say "never trust a skinny chef" so that's an excuse to not get too lean!

[@squib308]

as an amateur concrete nerd the idea of dry pack gives me the heebie jeebies. Especially in a place like I live, which is a lot like where y'all are doing this test - except no irrigation run off.

[@Connor_307]

dang that operator is amazing at his job

[@sassafrasvalley1939]

Mark! Mark! Mark! I can’t believe you used dirty water in your corn-crete!!! Every Ozark farm boy knows that the secret to successful post planting is to use cool fresh mountain spring water… iffen you are doing it during a drought, the only acceptable alternative is to substitute a few squirts of urine… which means you have to bring along a bottle of last years Elderberry wine to prime the pump.

[@SWiFence]

But this is clean water! You should see our dirty water. 😆

[@sassafrasvalley1939]

@@SWiFence I guess I’m just a bit spoilt… what with all the crystal clear springs, cricks and such that we have to cool our watermelons and take our weekly baths! Sorry fer the misundertaking.

[@michaeltobin2014]

Yes it pays to follow the instructions. Thanks for a good vid.

[@jacVincent1]

Great video! Well done on the follow up. The screws seem to work IMO. All the fences I’ve removed seem to have failed because the concrete is cracked then the post becomes loose. If the screws hold the concrete together even when it’s cracked that must help.

[@timkirkpatrick9155]

Good demo!

[@frotoe9289]

You definitely need to swap roles. You run the excavator and let the kid swing the sledge.

[@GrahamSmyth-um6uh]

Nah his young bloke is thinking I'll stay in the digger . Dad can bugger off and do the hard work . His son isn't silly . Good video

[@jakej1837]

Thanks for doing this update. That was also what stood out to me in your original test. I've seen people use the dry method and all of them add water afterwards. They also use a different type (as you did with the red bag) because not all types say you can add water afterwards. As the results show, adding that water made a huge difference. In your original test, the dry with no water was completely worthless. In this case, although the strength of the concrete is much weaker (you would never do something like this for structural work), for just holding a fence post, it's probably perfectly fine in most cases. I've never actually seen anyone just use it completely dry with no water added afterwards, even when they say they are doing a "dry pour", nor suggest that is the way to do a dry pour. I'm curious where that idea came from or if there is actually people that do that. The main idea behind the dry method is just that it saves equipment, mess, and the time spent mixing. It's not that you don't have water on site and thus add none after pouring. Personally however even for small DIY post setting without a wheelbarrow, I just mix it first in the 5 gallon bucket before dumping it in. It's worth it to me to have stronger concrete.

[@SWiFence]

Believe it or not there is a purist dry pack crowd who swears you don't need to add water at all.

[@plumbobmillionaire6246]

Mr fence does the full dry pack method. It’s arsebackwards though!

[@finallyfriday.]

Wet cement is not compressible. Dry is. Dry pours usually take much longer to cure but my experience shows it is fully strong after a decent amount of time rather than only a few days. Packing allows the post to free stand whereas wet cement does not.

[@jakej1837]

@@finallyfriday. I've seen dry pour (with water added) vs wet pour tests where they break it open after 90 days. The concrete from the dry pour was much weaker (comes apart much easier). It's fairly obvious because it wasn't premixed, the water isn't evenly distributed, so some areas have proper binding while others don't. I doubt a completely dry mix would cure faster than that or do better in this regard.

[@finallyfriday.]

@@jakej1837 I'm betting much of the varied results have a lot to do with ground moisture and precipitation. Here in northern Michigan moisture is abundant and given enough time it will full saturate and cure. I've pulled some posts the following year and the cement was good. In dry areas I'm sure results would not be as good. Further- what is good enough? Does it need to so strong it can take the impact of an 18 wheeler? Cuz the post itself sure as heck can't. Anything is as good as its weakest link so a 30 year post benefits not at all from a 100 cement blob at it's base.

[@qbishop1]

Thank you. That was awesome. Appreciate it!

[@SWiFence]

You're very welcome!

[@mherrmann81687]

Love how he "read the instructions" which does not have a dry pack method (some do, like he said... but this does not) then says *why water won't save your dry pack* 😂 Dry pack concrete method sucks... I agree. I just trust mixed concrete more bc I can tell that it is well and fully mixed. But if you (A) never add water, (B) add too much water too fast, or (C) use the wrong type of mix, then it will never even have a chance.

[@Macismad]

Good videos, both of them! I got some helpful tips. I live in the Sandhills in North Carolina. When I say Sandhills, my back yard is virtually a giant sand box! I have 300 linear feet of wooden privacy fence that is nearly 14 years old. I am gradually replacing it a little at a time by myself. The biggest problem I have is the posts rotting right at ground level. So when I am placing new posts I try to bring the concrete up to as high a level as I can, then later backfill with broken up concrete plugs from the broken posts. My idea here is that it will minimize the amount of wet sand contact right up against the post which is the reason for the rotting in the first place, I’m pretty sure. So far I have only used the Quickcrete red bag fast setting concrete. Pour it dry into the hole, no packing, then just pour the water in. This has bothered me though for many of the reasons you covered here. So later this year when I get back to doing more I am going to do a combo method I saw on someone else’s video where you mix the first bag before putting in the hole, then add a dry bag and then the water. I worry about the the idea of the water making it all the way down to the bottom of the hole. So far I haven’t really had any problems. I think the best measure will be how long the posts last before rotting at the base.

[@Joe-em3iw]

I put red guard on my posts and thoroughly mix the concrete. I even put red guard on schedule 40 galvanized pipe. I want my stuff to last generations. Otherwise, you'll be forgotten :)

[@Macismad]

@@Joe-em3iw Thanks for the tip. But, I must confess I don’t know what red guard is? Something like Thompsons water seal? Does it color the post in any way?

[@jeremyswaim9370]

Have you tried throwing a little water in the hole while cleaning it out with the auger? I have found this to work very well, especially in sandy country.

[@TheMamonti1]

what if you leave the dry mix with the water set for 6 months? I agree wet set is the best but I used dry set in a couple of dead men.(a post that I made 1/4" abs sleeve) that I can slide a 4x4 post into. I use them for removeable fence / gate.... I also have different lengths 4x4's for work posts.... 1 I have a vise attached at standing height, another I use as a engine hoist lever and so on.... I just have to use a lever to slide (Pull) the 4x4 out and cap it if I don't need to use it.... so I did them in the late fall in the northeast and never used them until spring. I haven't had any issues of them moving or wobble and I did use screws through the abs in both directions... outside to hold it from turning and lifting and the inside screws the 4x4 rests on to stay dry from ground contact. I did one without the abs sleeve and put grease on the 4x4 and wrapped it with thin plastic...... I haven't used it yet and wonder if it will even lever out? I may need to use a jack the 1st time? btw.... I use 2x4's and sandwich glue 1/2" plywood to make the engine hoist..... it is at least 3x as strong as a 4x4!

[@PaulyDownUnder]

Wet mixed concrete seems to be the best way to go. If I come across the foam fill for a good price it might be a good compromise considering it's a lot easier. The foam stuff is fairly new though and will have to see how it stands up to the test of time. Maybe it will degrade after 10 years or so or should it crack allowing water in may then fail from internal rot.

[@landmarkcreations1183]

Ask and you shall receive. Mark is a man of the people. Also what you call the chicken dance, we call the Texas two step 😂

[@mertz313]

We've always poured the dry concrete, add water, and then we use a metal rod to poke at it. It's always worked for us here in Michigan for 20 years so far. The only time we don't use this method is for gate posts. We will mix the concrete for gate posts because it is 100% stronger mixed and then poured, but due to lack of issues, we've never adopted that practice to our fences just our gate posts.

[@SWiFence]

Tested that theory here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5LbiGePlr6kbac

[@mertz313]

@@SWiFence Not really. All you did was pour the dry concrete mix, pack it, dumped water, and walked away. That's different from what I said. Our method is to pour the concrete mix dry, poke at it to get it to go down, add water, and then pick at it again (which you did not do) with a metal rod like a 1/2" x 1/2" solid square bar x 5' long. We poke the concrete immediately after we add water around the posts, the 1/2" bar will go down, water will follow, and then add a little more water if needed and done. New video idea I guess lol

[@Grggeorge]

@@mertz313in Wisconsin this year and most years the ground is so moist the concrete will setup overnight

[@Joe-em3iw]

@@mertz313 You already know that the concrete is stronger when mixing than not because you mix the gate post. So then the only reason you don't mix the line post is because you're lazy and don't really care. It's good enough for you.

[@PresidentDoochBag]

I’ve installed thousands of 4x4 pressure treated spf posts with this same method. These are temporarily permanent posts for 4’x8’ real estate signs. I dig a 6” wide hole to 24” deep, put 4x4 post in hole, fill rest of hole with yellow bag quikrete, pour in appropriately 1/2 gallon of water on top. Sometimes I mix the top bit of concrete and water with spud bar, sometimes I don’t. I usually have to go back later to remove the signs once the property is sold or the real estate contract is over. Occasionally the contractor who purchased the property removes the signs. Every single time I go back the posts are always level as the day I installed them and every time the post are almost impossible to remove without a piece of machinery like a skidsteer. To remove posts I first remove some of the dirt from around the concrete. Then I take the spud bar and smash it between the post and the concrete on every side to try and loosen the concrete from the post. Then I take my farm jack and wrap a chain around the post and attempt to jack the post up out of the hole. Sometimes I get lucky and it comes out the first attempt, however it still usually takes a lot of pressure enough that the farm jack is bowing and bending with the amount of resistance from the post still gripping onto the concrete. Often I have to repeat the process a couple times to finally get the post out of the hole. Often there is still concrete stuck to the post on one or two sides when I pull it up out of the hole. I also install fences and when I set fence posts I dig an 8” wide by 28” deep hole and mix the concrete before pouring it in the hole because yes it is stronger this way however I still believe through experience of setting and removing thousands of posts over 20 years that the method of pouring in concrete dry and pouring water on top makes a strong set post that will not come out of the ground or become unlevel without excessive force.

[@gallmanconstruction728]

Would digging the bottom of the hole wider than the top help prevent the posts from heaving in a frost situation?

[@rachel81962]

I have done a lot of post semi dry pack. I add water to the hole, concrete then more water then more concrete then more water. I do this process till I have the hole full. I have had good luck with it. I will admit it is not as strong as mixed but it , just adding to the top I don't that will work well

[@jacooosthuizen3593]

The man knows.

[@tchevrier]

the Bobcat Toolcat is a pretty cool machine. I was part of the team who designed the electronics for it. Code name: Odyssey

[@SWiFence]

Love it!

[@jimwright8388]

Also some of this is climate in your area... here in Indiana in the spring there is plenty of water... and where I lived in Wisconsin the water table was like 2 foot down so no additional water needed

[@miltonthecat2240]

Sorry, I'm not convinced dry pack concrete is bad for all applications. I used concrete blocks to address severe erosion at the base of concrete bridge support walls at either side of a small creek. The previous owner had used rock, but the creek runs high and fast during the rainy season and it was a constant (losing) battle replacing the rock. I made a slanted wall, following the contours of the steep bank, using concrete blocks. I drove metal fence posts through the cores of the concrete blocks and into the creek bank, then filled the cores with dry concrete mix. I used no water at all. We don't really have a dry season, just a "less-wet" season, so the concrete solidified enough to stay put in a day or two, no rain needed. Each row of concrete block is connected to at least the row below it with the metal fence posts. The resulting beast of a "wall" hasn't budged in twenty years now, and the erosion problem went away completely.

[@bartroberts1514]

Be great to see you try geopolymer and other unconventional cements for your concrete mix. Don't recommend dry pack for the alkali-activated mixes, though.

[@sonsofliberty3081]

On the farm we use a post pounder

[@SWiFence]

Post pounders are our favorite method by far!

[@exhumed07]

Should add a bag to the hole and toss in a gallon and use the spud bar to stab the mix and then repeat for all bags. That is how i've done it.

[@masonhaggard1199]

How we do it also

[@SovereigntyGW]

Yeah same. I'll also add that you should pre soak the hole a bit.

[@masonhaggard1199]

@@SovereigntyGW I’m sure it’s just in the middle in terms of strength between using the wheelbarrow and just leaving water on top. Definitely easier than using the wheelbarrow though

[@SovereigntyGW]

@@masonhaggard1199 agreed and would say the strength you lose, it's in terms of psi/mpa which isn't what we are looking for, just something which won't erode away. " I would also throw out there... any of the dry pack that doesn't set, well thats because water never gets to there. if water never gets to there then it is never going to erode, and if water does get to there, then it will just set up. random thought i had. but yeah the 10-20 times ive had to pull out posts we dry packed and its not fun, definitely not going anywhere without demolition but does bust up quicker than wheelbarrow mixed

[@SWiFence]

There seems to be 100 variations of this method.

[@MIGHTYX2010]

Good info 💪 One thing would be cool if you try it would be to do your hole but the post in and fill the hole up with water then start adding dry concrete once the bag is in or a half a bag is in use the donkey blank vibrator Then put the rest of the dry concrete in vibrate the top section and let it sit I wonder if that would give you stronger concrete than dry pack but be good enough or if it would turn out just as good as wet set? 👍

[@MIGHTYX2010]

Maybe do a second experiment where you do the same thing at the beginning but don't use the vibrator Just fill the hole with water throw the dry cement in and walk away 🤷‍♂️

[@SWiFence]

There appear to be a 100 variations of this method.

[@JayKayKay7]

This has to be the stupidest controversy ever. Throw half the water in the hole, than the concrete than some more water. Mix as best you can. Your done.

[@yohell]

No spreader bar?

[@mr.upcycle9589]

Pour water in the hole first, fill it with concrete, poke it with a stick. Water works up into the concrete. Top it off with concrete flick water on the top to get it to harden up. That post will not come out, won't bend or sway. Quick and easy no need for a mixer. The real trick to make it last a really long time is mound the concrete up above the soil level. Leave room for the fencing of course.

[@SWiFence]

There appear to be 100 variations of this method.

[@kmtabq617]

I don't think dry pack would work well here in NM. Our ground is too dry. We get about 8" of precipitation per year, and the water table at my house is at 900 feet.

[@SWiFence]

900! 😲

[@jimwright8388]

My Dad taught me to tamp the bottom with a 2 by 4

[@factsoverfeelings21]

Why when looking at the screwed post I keep thinking of Hellrasier.

[@TheBigfoot567]

40 years in construction here. I try asking the "dry packers" if they would dump a box of cake mix powder into a pan, pour a cup of milk over it and a raw egg. No stirring...pop it in the oven and then happily eat the "cake" that results.? I guess it's the years of dumbing down in the public school system.

[@SWiFence]

That's a great illustration!

[@finallyfriday.]

Wet cement is not compactable. Dry is. Dry pack posts can free stand- wet posts need support until somewhat cured. Dry pours need much longer to cure but eventually are equally as strong. Months or weeks rather than days.

[@SWiFence]

If your posts are leaning after you put them in your concrete is too wet.

[@finallyfriday.]

@@SWiFence I agree though many videos showing wet cement pour it in with the consistency of soupy oatmeal.

[@SovereigntyGW]

posts with wet concrete do not need support unless you are throwing in like the sloppiest concrete known to man. im dry pour gang btw

[@david2ljdavid2lj56]

If anything, the screws make it easier for water to penetrate the wood and rot the wood.

[@SWiFence]

I agree with you.

[@thedivide3688]

Bobcats are so nice! 😂

[@SWiFence]

They are. 😊

[@kevinmarc3394]

If you are just adding dry mix, we pour a gallon of water in dry season into the hole then add the concrete. Vibrate the post level and a mist of water at the top to trowel a downward slope to prevent water pooling and going between the wood and concrete. Freezing temperatures can crack tbe concrete. 6x6 posts ensure a 40 year fence!

[@SWiFence]

There seems to be 100 variations of this method.

[@ColinRichardson]

I recently watched a video where the guys added water to the hole, and THEN added the cement. I have no idea if this was a standard practice, but it was certainly the first time I seen it.

[@finallyfriday.]

I splash some water into hole, dry pour cement, pack it, then top it off with water. Later I fill the rest of hole with soil. Water first settles any lose soil in hole and helps cure cement. Don't know if there's a better plan but this works very well for me.

[@ColinRichardson]

@@finallyfriday. Oh, no, maybe I should have made it clear.. The hole was FULL of water, and they kept pouring bag after bag of cement in.. And used a stick to mix it all, and kept pouring more bags in. I have never done this stuff myself, so I don't know the ins-and-outs.. Just that this is the first time I had seen this method.. Though, 5 or so videos later, I don't see them do it that way anymore.. So no idea if they decided it was bad from seeing the results, or people in the comments telling them to stop doing it.. I was just shocked at the method.. I mean, in 1 respect, it makes sense, gets more of the concrete wet, in others, it seems like a terrible idea of getting the right amount compacted down.

[@finallyfriday.]

@@ColinRichardson mmmm.... so.... mmmm... uh, the excess of water makes the concrete weak, limits how much concrete goes in, makes a mess I'm sure... but...uh, if it works for them. Too much water separates the components into gravel, then sand, then Portland cement. Might be that new math I hear talk of.

[@ColinRichardson]

@@finallyfriday. I don't remember seeing any gravel or sand. I wasn't paying super attention at the time.. I could try and find the video, but comments tend to get deleted if I add a link. It was by "Flawless Cleaning Service" one of the recent "peggy" videos. Not episode 1, but later than that.. Maybe about 5-6 weeks ago or so.. I could be completely wrong about what I was viewing, but it was what the impression I got.. My dad always mixed concrete on a flat mat with a spade, and that is the method I think of in my head.. I just never had a need to mix concrete for myself, so never actually did it.. Just was jarring when I seen that different technique with the water in the hole first.

[@finallyfriday.]

@@ColinRichardson Well it did save them the use of a wheelbarrow so I guess that was the goal. Mix it in place.

[@LynxSnowCat]

IIRC Doesn't fast-set concrete have even more organic-salts (like calcium-chloride) that pulls water in to enable the cement to cure even faster than normal concrete mixes (

[@SWiFence]

Ooh, great question! I'll have to look into that.

[@SovereigntyGW]

but how would the corrosion really occur, its set concrete.

[@woodman1701]

Fast set is weaker than even the dry pack regular with some water. It has next to no strength at all. I stopped using it years ago.

[@gregmize01]

The "coulda/shoulda/woulda's" in the comments just provide you guys with more content fodder and proving them wrong along the way. LOL.

[@edl653]

Thanks for the follow up video. Very entertaining and you even got a workout out of it. Lesson, have they youngster learn to swing the hammer. Tell him it will make his arms bigger, something the girls will like.

[@colonelkilgore6296]

I really don’t understand why someone would conduct a test of products and methods without reading the manufacturers instructions. The Quikrete in the yellow/orange bag is only intended to be mixed with water and then poured. It is not intended to be used to set posts w/o mixing. The Fast-Setting Quikrete in the red bag is the only product that is to be used in this manner. They got a bag of the red, but then never used it.

[@SWiFence]

You make a great point. We're not really testing HOW it should be done, we're testing WHAT people do. Because people do this. All the time.

[@cdrdddowning]

I throw a bucket of water in first, then concrete, then water on top. Osmosis draws the water into the mix, and sets the concrete

[@SWiFence]

There seems to be 100 variations of this method.

[@kurtisjohnson9530]

I suppose I’ve myself done some pretty foolish things in my life, but I’m glad I never thought I had to use bracing. To anyone who’s set a post prior to the KZbin era, bracing has got to be the most idiotic, unnecessary concept to come along.

[@Jon-kg6hm]

Add water to the bottom too

[@SWiFence]

There seems to be a 100 variations of this method.

[@Jon-kg6hm]

I'm not saying it would help, but it seems logical. Water could saturate the concrete from the top and bottom.

[@Grggeorge]

You can’t fill your post all the way with concrete pack soil at mid point then add more concrete and pack

[@Grggeorge]

Why?

[@MP99.]

You seem to have unlimited machine budgets so you should look into the "mud mixer" instead of doing that crap by hand. Hook a hose to it, power it, put in dry and it does the work and pours it out of the end mixed

[@SWiFence]

We always order off a truck--we're never mixing stuff ourselves.

[@MP99.]

@@SWiFence Even then the unit would pay for itself in less than 1 trucks price and a truck can't get to the holes always so you are transporting it anyway. You probably have a tuck that would hold a pallet of concrete and water tank. It would mix 2-3 bags in less than a minute each hole.

[@SWiFence]

We pour straight from the truck into a cement hog. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYW1operrdiioaM

[@MP99.]

@@SWiFence AHH i see. sweet

[@thedivide3688]

@@MP99.He’s not a concrete company. Why would you not let the professionals that do it daily and specifically assist your trade? We are in business to specifically do our craft and partner with others to create a seamless cohesive experience for all…not make more work for ourselves needlessly. Those that cannot leverage partnerships and penny pinch along the way are those that fail at business and work way harder than they need to.

[@timkirkpatrick9155]

Better than dry pack it should be called low or no slump concrete. ever heard of a clam shell post hole digger.

[@SWiFence]

Clam shells don't work well in our area. Too rocky. The big rocks stay in and everything else falls out. You'll get it done eventually but you'll grow old doing it.

[@RomanMyshoul85]

Tell the dry pack people that want to add water that the best time to add water is before putting the concrete in the hole

[@SWiFence]

There seems to be 100 variations of this method.

[@RomanMyshoul85]

@@SWiFence LOL, I was sarcastically saying to mix the concrete with water

[@SWiFence]

😆👍🏻

[@Nickrioblanco1]

The second post screwed you.

[@oby-1607]

Lets compare why posts are different when mixing concrete with water and with water poured on top. Oh, wait a minute, lets put screws in one post and not the other and call it a comparison. That's like putting on winter tires on a truck to drive out in the snow and ice and another truck with summer tires and then wondering why the performance difference. Both posts should have had screws installed or both posts without screws to be fair. Do it again fairly, Mark.

[@SWiFence]

I know it looks that way, but the screws/wet-set wasn't intended to be a comparison. I tried the screws thing in a previous video and it didn't work, so we were trying it again. It was supposed to be "bonus content," not a comparison. It was confusing. I should've just made a separate video for the screws thing.

[@DarrellWilkerson-b4s]

I was not entertained by your video dry packing works. You do have to add a bucket of water to it and after time it’s still absorbs moisture from the ground cement set and Harden you’re not doing it justice

[@danielcourtney7045]

“What’s your guys’ tool/equipment budget?” “Yes” 😂😂

[@woodman1701]

Agreed. Lol

[@Rickimusic]

Mix the damn concrete and stop the dumb dry posts. What next, flat earth?

[@SWiFence]

🤣👍🏻

[@BryanMau]

I am a Wyoming Mau from the Kemmerer Cokeville, and Rock Springs area. The next time I'm up there, I'll reach out to you. I think we could trade some fun stories about that area of the country.

[@finallyfriday.]

4 bags? Holy Hannah! One post, one bag. Or no bag, except at gates. I usually splash a little water in first to wet the soil and to settle "loose" soil to avoid "catastrophe". Drop in post, dry pour, tamp and then pour water on top. Later I kick in soil to top off and pack it down with my boot heel. So far so good (20 years) in northern Michigan.

[@SWiFence]

We've got too much wind out here to run 1 bag. C'mon now, just because we warranty our work doesn't mean we *want* warranty work. 😁

[@finallyfriday.]

@@SWiFence Oh yeah, you're in Wyoming or something. Buildings fall down when the wind stops cuz they're used to leaning hard into it. I dig. I'm in a generally "pleasant breeze" area.

[@tonysheerness2427]

It does not matter if the concrete hardens, it is a barrier between the soil and the post. It is the soil that eats the post away. The post will stay upright if the concrete hardens or not.