Why Are D&D Books Failing?

Bob and Sam discuss some of the shortcomings in recent WotC D&D releases.
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[@topogigio7031]

Rime of Frostmaiden was written so strangely that both when I played and DMed the Party decided to side with the "Villain." It just doesn't make sense for Good-aligned Players to intentionally squash a Freedom Fighter group fighting for ethnic equality. It's like they made everything so grey that they confused who the Heroes and Villains were supposed to be. Traditionally well-received books have had actual bad guys to fight, because that's what people *playing* D&D want to do. The newest books lack direction because they lack conflict. A "Villain" that goes around installing handicap accessible railings doesn't seem like someone worth killing when Orcus wants to "defile" all living beings

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I like some gray areas.

[@Kylora2112]

I think DMs want to just do their own thing. Like, more materials that give DMs better resources to aid in worldbuilding (premade cities/states), storywriting (premade large-scale NPCs), and encounter design (basically a better monster manual). One of the draws of D&D is that open-world feel that let DMs do their own thing. Maybe a better "dungeon building guide" would be nice, but yeah, adventure books just kinda suck by design now that there are tons of resources to build your own world. WotC should just stick to source books (PHB, DMG, MM, and stuff like Tasha's and Xanathar's). I love my main campaign (DM's homebrew world with ties to basic D&D lore like some of the planes and major NPCs), and my LGS has a DM run monthly one-shots that are also fun as hell (his own designed adventures that also follow basic D&D lore). We're in a digital age. Just make Official™ One-Shot adventure PDFs for like $1-2 a piece for a 3-6 hour session (basically follow official D&D lore, have a couple of combat encounters, and the NPCs to interact with) and just have "core worlds" books (essentially pre-built worlds for new DMs to have content) and "source books" with tons of player options, creatures/NPCs, etc. Less is more some times.

[@josephpable5661]

They had that like....30 years ago. It was a magazine called "Dungeon" that ran bi-monthly until they started releasing it monthly, like they were doing with the "Dragon" magazine.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Love this idea.

[@jordanwhite8718]

I think the idea with the adventure is that wizards understands that people are probably going to chop and screw them. When I run a Dungeons & Dragons module, I always try to add my own elements to it or create my own story around it. I think wizards of the Coast should try and help newer dungeon. Masters figure out how to remix the modules into their own stories. But I do like that the modules are bare bones so that you can run them as is if you want.

[@topogigio7031]

There's an entire book dedicated to teaching you how to DM. The problem is you Posers jumped in blind, ruining the hobby for everyone else, and demanded everything be handed to you. This is a hobby that requires homework. If you don't like that, try Risk or Monopoly

[@cavernsandcreatures]

You should totally listen to the guy that calls people "posers".

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

The LMoP starter set is an amazing value for the price. Those people who made it don't work there anymore, right? At least the map guy is gone. Also, thought Ghosts of Saltmarsh was great. Same for the Wild Beyond the Witchlight. Its just been over the last four years the books have dropped in value.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

A lot of good people don't work there anymore.

[@Dayandcounting]

I'm with Sam go back the the old school module format. Some box sets for cities,worlds or planes. I would also create a legit virtual table top application that would mean embracing AI, the community doesn't seem ready for that. I would still do it and combine it with a market place workshop where player creation could be shared for their own worlds. A boxed world should have virtual world as impressive Baldurs Gate 3 and it should cost a fraction of what video game cost...

[@cavernsandcreatures]

These are potentially great ideas.

[@fortunatus1]

WotC is a corporation; it has no goal but profit. Since books of player options sell better but they don''t make more such books on player options, we should assume that expenses are higher for those books. This probably means that they don't make as much money off those books as you think. The adventure modules are often also used as spingboards for marketing. They're trying to get more people to play the game which means more sales of the Players Handbook and maybe a few other books. If they're doing it this way, there's a reason. Maybe that reason is internal politics but probably its $$$.

[@topogigio7031]

That doesn't have to be the case. Stop worshipping Boomer economics. Tell the Posers to stop buying things they'll never open because it's ruining the hobby for those of us that DO open the books

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I agree that they probably have their reasons, and they seem to be doing okay. I was just musing aloud to try and figure out what those reasons might be.

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

Also as a corporation, like any organizations, they can have group think and have poor leadership.

[@plissken2245]

Alien RPG is the only new game I've bought that isn't overwritten. Also, I'll play 5e but I'm not interested in running it. Super Fantasy doesn't interest me as a DM. So, I don't own any books.

[@topogigio7031]

Delta Green (Call of Cthulhu) is the same way. Your Character Sheet at Session 1 is almost exactly the same as it'll be at Session 20, save for some single-digit point increases

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I used to play Top Secret back in the day.

[@xiongray]

You're right on the quality of the books. Planescape marketed with "New Spells" and while two is plural making the statement true, it is the bare minimum. I have three starter kits and two adventures: Shattered Obelisk & Strixhaven. They're okay, I feel like the books are really bloated. Like every chapter could've been condensed to 2-3 pages, while the remaining pages could've detailed the setting and critical areas. And Strixhaven should've totally introduced a lot more races/species and subclasses. Like Planescape, there's a hub of the multiverse and nothing new. You got 3rd party cooking subclasses for each class and introducing spells for their setting for players. I think they're lazy when they have so much more resources. They mentioned adventures on brochures and magazines and instead, they're selling bloated books. Even now, when they're asking for preorders for the 2024 corebooks but I can wait.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Holy crap! @xiongray criticized something! You really messed up this time, WotC!

[@xiongray]

@@cavernsandcreatures Everyone's trying to make a living, and as a consumer, you speak with your wallet.

[@Belligerent_Herald]

I use PHB and sometimes the DM guide. No need for anything else. I’ve been a player in a few modules, and if you’re good at running them it’s fun. I personally suck at running modules. But the thing is, there are kickstart modules and books making unbelievable amounts of money, so the concept works. Maybe WOTC should hire some of those people instead of suing them.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I wonder if I could market a module better than I could market my novel series.

[@Belligerent_Herald]

@@cavernsandcreatures I would buy a C&C module, and I usually don’t buy modules.

[@AxidentalDM]

Two weeks ago, I sold all my D&D books except the PHB, MM, DMG because I never used them.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I hope they found a good home.

[@nowsmile790]

Honestly, thinking about doing the same all the books are kind of garbage and I don’t really use them

[@travisdonaldstanley6420]

Because their books don't have good maps anymore. Dragon Queen book is a great example. Vogler is a defender's nitemare. Also there was not even numbers attached to the map for the DM to change somethings. Plus, the Dragon Queen book doesn't do anything for me, and that was the gateway into D&D. However, it was worth getting to build my campaigns.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Good maps are definitely a selling point.

[@michaelmuirhead910]

Good topic for a discussion. I have to agree with most of what Sam pointed out. For some reason, dnd specifically, always falls into the same trap. Market 90% of their products to 10% of their customer base. It happens every time. It’s always a failing business model. The nature of the game makes it that way. All you guys need to play is this one book and your imagination. Leaving one person to buy everything else. It’s amazing for a player, not a bottom line on a spreadsheet. If it were me, I would stop the speed run of print and release. That’s where they always fail. Why not work on collaboration style books that offer player options for 3-4 new adventure settings? Then you’ve set the plot hook, players will want to try them in these new books. I’ve heard suggestions before of adding a shortened, more concise version of the DMG into the PHB itself. That made sense to me. Put it right there and encourage more players to try the DM spot. It doesn’t need to always be the big, scary book as a second purchase. Good video, important topic!

[@cavernsandcreatures]

This is how I feel, but they seem to be doing okay for themselves.

[@comradewarners]

I don’t read.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Well, that explains one person who isn't buying my Caverns & Creatures books.

[@Antelope2000]

Don't or cant? Because I can't.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

I think they are publishing too many books per year. They began 5e with 2 books per year and should go back to it. Specially if they publish a campaign setting at start of the year they can publish an adventure set in that setting in september Currently there is not enough time for any adventure or setting to be in the spotlight Quests from infinite staircase hasnt droped and thy are already talking about the new phb

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Not everybody is going to want to play every adventure in every setting. If I cared about modules, I'd be happy for more variety and frequent releases.

[@WyrmHunter]

Seems like Wizard's feels like they can't market D&D as a game; as if refering to Hit Points as HP is too nerdy and going to deter the public from wanting to engage.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I'm not really seeing that. HP and Hit Points are equally nerdy.

[@topogigio7031]

The problem with the initial assertion is that WotC is not selling to Players anymore, it is selling to brand-followers (Posers). It's the AC/DC problem. Sure, a lot of shirts will sell but the primary product is failing, resulting in a failing IP.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I'm older than 12, so I have a hard time taking anyone who uses the word "poser" seriously.

[@toab]

DM's Guild has better stuff for less. Free fiddy sometimes.

[@topogigio7031]

DMs Guild directly funds Hasbro. It's not an independent site.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

Good to know!

[@toab]

@@topogigio7031 their site states "DMSGuild is owned and operated by Roll20, LLC for Wolves of Freeport, Inc." Is that a Hasbro company?

[@shannonparkhill5557]

Your first major point is brutal and on point. even the missions in the starters packs are completely unbalanced to an absurd degree. everyone can get 1-hit by everything they encounter at level 1, from their first encounter in combat!! Budding DM here having his time wasted balancing his first game before he can even bigin. Dissappointed, shocked even!

[@topogigio7031]

You are SUPPOSED to die in D&D.

[@topogigio7031]

Get lost, Poser. Stop ruining the hobby

[@fortunatus1]

There is no such thing as unbalanced at level 1. CR 1/4 and even 1/8 monsters can kill you with a few lucky rolls.

[@cavernsandcreatures]

I think we can all learn a lot from the guy who keeps calling everyone a "poser".