Why are Elden Ring's Bosses so Divisive? (Old video, thoughts have changed)

Almost a year since Elden Ring's release and still no consensus on whether this game's bosses are utter garbage or certified masterpieces. Now it's time for my take on the subject.

[@anonymous01201]

How has your opinion changed?

[@chadofastora]

While I think it's still arguable that the bosses are too punishing on new players, I have gotten used to them. The main difference in this game is that you're supposed to find attack windows within their combos as opposed to after them.

[@anonymous01201]

@@chadofastora Yeah agreed

[@Shin_FTW]

@@chadofastora I don't think it was the devs' intention, since the only way to do this is to get inside a boss' hitbox so their attacks swing over you, since being just in a "blind" spot won't work given that bosses can turn on a dime to track you. I've no-hit the bosses, but can't find most of them good, fun, or having a sense of flow/rhythm to them. That not including the awful ganks, which I did no-hit too.

[@salmannader1762]

@@chadofastoraglad to see I am not the only one, A lot of people claim that they are unfair simply because they don’t stand still after a combo, which was more prevalent in the other games like dark souls 3 but I just think it was an expert choice by the devs to wake up veteran players, But I still do think that the damage output on some of the bosses are whack

[@Gigaover]

"The best bosses are always in the DLCs" Yeah and so are the hardest. Which means they're gong to try to one up Malenia. Not sure if I'm ready for that lol.

[@fireandbombs12]

Why did you have to tell me the truth?

[@grimreefer213]

I don’t think they will try to one up Melania. I don’t see them replicating a Melania level challenge for a while. They will probably be on par with the other late game bosses, maybe slightly harder but not Melania level overpowered

[@ksw8514]

For the first time I'm actually not hoping for challenging bosses in a DLC. I just want From Software to remember that bosses should also be fun (and balanced to be enjoyable for at least all primary build types).

[@mannytprimeministerofthemanate]

@@grimreefer213ppl though the same with nameless in ds3, then we got bosses like midir and sister fried so I’m pretty sure they will try and succeed. I just hope that don’t try to recreate waterfowl

[@enigmatic8280]

@@ksw8514 Agreed. Watching super saiyans zip around the arena and throw OP attacks at you isn't fun but that's exactly what they're going to go for. Fromsoft at this point probably doesn't know when to stop.

[@violatorut2003]

“Causes it to feel like a dance where you and the boss take turns trying to hit each other.” That’s the kind of dance that I would love to attend.

[@Yami1300]

That's not a dance That's just hitt traiding A dance is when you enter into a bosses combo avoiding it's atack while dealing dame of your own Malenia,Mogh,Radaghon,Godfrey and the Godskins (individialy) are made for that

[@scarsch1286]

@@Yami1300You’re right one of those is shit game design and copium inhalation overdosing and one of those is the other dudes opinion.

[@savary5050]

@@Yami1300hit trading is when you and the enemy attack each other at the same time

[@Castigar48]

Elden beast, Fire giant, Foreskin duo, Gargoyles. Ill just leave that there

[@scarsch1286]

The fact that I could add more.

[@mgms2000]

Elden beast underrated

[@JadenD-rq9uj]

Elden Rings bosses are in this weird spot where half of the moveset feels play tested and the other half doesn't, A lot of moves the bosses feel like they were built early on in development and changed late into development, it might explain why some of the bosses animations look off as well

[@BR1elBR]

Facts

[@scarsch1286]

Especially when they levitate and defy the laws of physics or gravity just to have the millionth ducking delayed attack that minute. God this game annoys me.

[@russian_knight]

I replayed ds3 pretty recently and the difference in how fun the bosses were in that game compared to elden ring was insanely huge. I think they tried too hard to one up themselves with the elden ring bosses and ended up creating some memorable yet very tedious and at times irritating and unfun bosses

[@Bayocand]

Exactly.

[@buckiemohawk3643]

i call elden ring bosses the kitchen sink. They make every boss do a million moves

[@herrfantastisch7489]

Honestly never had a problem with Dark Souls bosses. Not a single one I hated. The only ones who gave me a lot of trouble were Wolnir, Aldritch, and Lothric, but that was on my first character, and I was just running the normal longsword I do every first run (I cheated and used Stormbreaker on Yorm). I can honestly say every single boss was fun to fight as well. The only boss I came close to disliking was Aldritch, but once I learned his moves, he became one of my favorite bosses. Even Midir since I have fond memories of getting wrecked by Midir. With Elden Ring, it became very clear who I hated. I still don’t like fighting those tree avatar guys. I think Dark Souls overall has better boss design, since with Elden Ring, there were many highs and lows. I love fighting the fire giant, Radagon, Godrick, and absolutely adore fighting Mohg. Mohg in the capital was so much fun, and looking past his cheap blood curse gimmick that requires a gimmick to counter in his actual boss fight, I found him super fun. Bosses I absolutely despised were the red wolf, Malenia, and Godskin Duo. I think the main reason is outright unfairness. To my knowledge, any build works for any boss in Dark Souls, and all the bosses always have some openings to attack. In Elden Ring, the bosses not only read your input, but some builds struggle so bad. My longsword run did decently fine, but when I was running great weapons, even a claymore, pre-buff, I struggled so hard against bosses like Malenia who always seemed so quick to escape getting punished. And maybe more of a bias take, but I disliked delayed attacks as well. I thought they were an amazing implementation on Margit, and they also work really well on Radagon. I love Radagon’s delayed attacks. They killed me so much. But I don’t believe every boss (might be an exaggeration, but that’s how it feels) should have delayed attacks. It seemed a bit overused moving forward in the game.

[@AlcyonEldara]

I replayed DS3 pretty recently and the difference in how F easy he bosses were in that game was insanely huge. The only issue was figuring how to beat the deacons in NG+7 bow only and stay focus for 15 minutes against Yhorm and the DLC bosses. The rest of the bosses? I don't even know their moveset, they move, I roll and I attack. Repeat.

[@MrPatrickbuit]

@@AlcyonEldara Had the same experience. Elden Ring is so fucking hard that when I finally played DS3 I completely blew through the game. Only boss that killed me more than 3 times was Pontiff, everyone else literally took 1 or 2 attempts. You get used to a faster pace in Elden Ring that DS3 doesn't replicate.

[@wilfredwayne7139]

I love the game but even I got sick of rolling for a whole minute to get one or two hits in unless I want to summon.

[@roscora614]

Actually, for a majority of elden ring bosses, you can squeeze in moves during their combos. For instance, in morgotts fight, he will consistently follow one of his dashes with the diagonal upward slices combo. If you dodge forward-left, you can get 1-2 free attacks in while being safe because the rest of the attacks won't follow you

[@Ashlevon]

Honestly, it kinda feels like they tried incorporating Sekiro's innovations in combat flow without fully accounting for the variety of weapons/spells you can use, and forgetting that Sekiro has much more lenient animation cancels than Elden Ring (especially after R1 attacks). Part of the bosses' movesets is very slow and telegraphed to give you a window of opportunity to attack before their attack goes off (first that comes to mind is Margit's very delayed overhead slam, but many bosses have similar attacks). With the delay offering you different windows of opportunity, you aren't just always waiting for the boss to finish its attack, and arguably give combat more depth. This was a thing in Sekiro too, you could quickly get in a hit or two in the middle of some enemy attack strings/during long windups. Unfortunately, not every weapon is a really fast Katana that can exploit those pre-attack windows, so for slower weapons those windows might as well not exist, since you'll get hit by the time you notice which attack/delay is coming (since seeing, hearing, and processing audiovisual input in your brain takes time). And since those slower weapons can't take advantage of the pre-attack windows, they're left with less opportunities to safely attack, which means you'll just be waiting much longer for the boss to stop having fun fighting you until it's your turn to have fun fighting them.

[@elien902]

I was disappointed with ER bosses at first. But I started appreciating them when I realized that ER isn’t DS3 and that the game is just harder. I thought would I want more DS3 bosses in Elden Ring ? The answer is no. DS3 is the last Souls game I played (not counting Sekiro). And having played it after ER. I found the bosses really easy. The only ones that were a bit challenging were Pontiff Sulyvahn, Sister Friede and maybe Midir. I was already used to the “wait for them to finish their combo then attack” playstyle after having played DS1, DS2 and Bloodborne. And Elden Ring thought me to deal with delayed attacks so Nameless King was really trivial imo even though I heard much about his delayed attacks before facing him. Had I played DS3 in 2016, I would have struggled a lot more. And had ER kept their DS3 bosses philosophy, I think many people would have had the experience I had playing DS3 for the first time. FromSoftware had to change their design philosophy if they wanted to keep the challenge, and if you adapt to this change, you can appreciate it a lot more. You’re not supposed to wait for the bosses to finish their combo anymore, you might be waiting days for some. Instead, finding openings during combos is the meta. When Godfrey used to dash backwards and stomp the ground I would just roll. Now I jump attack which allows me to dodge the attack while inflicting damage and start breaking his poise (which also is a new tool to help with the relentlessness of the bosses). When Radagon slams his hammer 3 times, it’s also 3 free jump attacks. Other bosses like Maliketh require you to be mindful of your positionning. I’ve heard a lot of times that Maliketh is unfair because melee users can’t touch him and this couldn’t be further from the truth (unless you’re playing like you were in DS3). If anything I find him way too easy these days and I wish they would create “Inner” variants like Sekiro for some ER bosses like Maliketh. Thanks for the video.

[@enman009]

100% based. Many detractors were people playing it like DS3 and spreading a lot of missinformation regarding the boss design. Of course, other people like Penguinz0, Magicat, LeKevDev and Rusty actually made analysis on how Elden Ring's bosses work. LupineOs made an excellent video responding to Joseph Anderson's video, and many agree it's a very informed video.

[@scotaloo77g73]

Ds3 wasn't easy at all on release. Older games are always easier because people get better over time and at this point Nameless King looks easier than the pumpkinheads. When people say they prefer Ds3's design, they aren't saying they want the game to be easy, they're saying they want bosses to not be obnoxious. - Aggressive bosses that barely let the player do anything isn't good boss design for a game that focuses on build variety. You can't just give us tons of weapons and then turn the overwhelming majority of the combat into rolling. - Bosses should be fun from the get go, not become "fun" after the player spends an hour trying to understand their branching attacks, something statistically no one will do. - There's a difference between fun difficulty and annoying difficulty. Constant input reading and unintuitiveness is cheap and annoying difficulty. The only people who are playing ER like it's Ds3 are the ones that still haven't adapted to the stagger changes. Everyone else who complains about the boss design isn't playing it like Ds3, they just didn't waste their time learning all of the branching attacks of bosses they have no interest in and will never fight again.

[@elien902]

@@scotaloo77g73 I don’t know what you were trying to say in your first sentence because it is also what I said in my original comment. So I agree with it. Now for your opinions on ER boss design philosophy, they’re completely subjective … just like mine. In my mind, having a boss being intuitive isn’t a necessity for it to be considered a good design philosophy. FromSoftware games are renowned for their difficulty, and the player’s journey to overcome that difficulty. So if most people don’t want to put time into learning boss mechanics then maybe the game is not for them. Then again, you can completely ignore the boss’s mechanics regardless by using broken ashes of war and builds (edit : I meant to add spirit summons). So to be completely honest, I understand your point of view. Mostly because I shared that point of view in the past. I just disagree with it now.

[@scotaloo77g73]

@@elien902 My first sentence was addressing the comment you made on the second paragraph. FromSoft did not need to change their design philosophy at all. Design philosophy and design aren't the same. ER's bosses would have been more complex and harder than Ds3's even if they kept the same philosophy. You can say it's subjective, but they're as subjective as a movie receiving a 2/10 score after 1 million reviews. Just pointless semantics. And no, a major part of the boss design is objectively bad. Making bosses so fast players are barely able to use their build in a game that focuses on build variety is objectively bad design. It's like creating a game with amazing combat that doesn't have anything the player can fight. You can say intuitiveness isn't required, but tons of people will dislike bosses that constantly rely on unintuitiveness to remain difficult. You can say this didn't personally bother you, but when tons of fans complain about it, there's a problem. By your logic none of the souls games have had camera issues since that is also subjective. FromSoft was never known for creating obnoxious bosses and none of their games required the player to spend hours practicing against bosses for them to be fun. There's a big difference between learning and optimizing a boss. If Elden Ring's bosses require the player to replay the entire game and spend tons hours optimizing bosses for them to be less obnoxious then that's just bad game design, specially when most people won't even replay the game.

[@elien902]

@@scotaloo77g73 I disagree with your first paragraph. DS3’s system of waiting for the boss to finish their combo so you can get an opening is limited. I doubt they could have made bosses much harder without making them unfair or boring. Sister Friede and Gael already push the limits of such a system. If you wanted to make a boss harder than Friede then you’d have, for example, to make it faster than Friede, which was already very fast to begin with. If you wanted to make a boss harder than Gael then you’d give him longer combos or a girthier healthpool for example, which would be boring. Point being, the dodge the combo and punish system is limited. I’m not going to get deep into the subjective / objective argument, I’m just going to meet you halfway here and say it’s going to be pointless semantics. But I am going to offer a counter argument : the example you gave is an extreme case (2/10 with a million votes). Elden Ring’s boss design is controversial, and I’d say more people like it rather than not from what I’ve seen. So you cannot attribute objectiveness in this case since, as I said, it is divisive. Therefore you finding the bosses obnoxious is purely a subjective opinion. Had Elden Ring been a failure and almost everyone universally agreed that the bosses sucked, I’d have conceded and told you it could be objective. “By your logic, none of the souls games have had camera issues since that is also subjective”. Not at all, you are comparing a technical issue to an artistic choice. This argument makes no sense. “Tons of people will dislike bosses that constantly rely on unintuitiveness to be difficult” and tons of people will find the process of figuring a boss out that relies on unintuitivety to be fun. You don’t have statistics, all you know is that the design is divisive and yet you keep using the “tons of people” argument. It just doesn’t hold up. Don’t rationalize your arguments based on what other people’s opinions are but rather on what YOU think, it would be a more pertinent critique. Lastly, a lot of builds are viable against all bosses , some are less efficient than others but that’s how it’s always going to be. Thanks for reading.

[@kirisame_badgirl]

I feel so different to you in regards of bosses, especially about delay. Input reading has been there for I think almost all the games but like I never understood why people criticise the delay of boss attacks. Sure it feels cheesy the first three times that you die to them but me personally, I love when a boss makes me panic so much and I think the bosses try to teach you something: discipline. Sure this is a recurrent topic in FS design but I feel like players are criticising ER bosses because they got used to the more fast paced DS3 bosses, where the flow was pretty awesome ngl. ER is just different and a bit more reminiscent to the slower pace of DS1 and 2. Bosses here feel really punishing because if you dare to attack in what feels like it's your window, the boss will just hit you, like Morgott does. And yeah I get the point of why people find it cheesy, but at the end of the day is more of the same: die, learn, repeat and build discipline. I also believe that they made bosses so punishing since you can literally gtfo and farm for hours to your hearts content even more than in previous games, trivialising any boss fight. Att.: a Morgott apologiser

[@leeroy2752]

I feel a slow paced dark souls game is tolerable. However you are fighting bosses with the speed of a sekiro boos with a dark souls 1 character.

[@kirisame_badgirl]

@@leeroy2752 It’s been a hot minute since my last ER playthrough but I really think it isn’t as dramatic as that is. I remember wanting to pull my eyes out of their sockets when fighting Malenia tho, because her moves felt very difficult to dodge, but that’s like the extreme of the extremes ngl. For the rest of the bosses it mostly felt that the game was punishing and every mistake would mean to take a big hit to your HP but still, I don’t think it’s as dramatic as you say, taking into account combat arts and the possibility to jump over attacks or just jump in general to evade and move around

[@ethanpispas4098]

Been playing these games since 2010 (with the correct chronological order pretty much). The bosses in these games, when fighting them straight on feel weird. The are too fast, the combos are endless, the attack opportunities are sometimes non existent even with fast weapons, the timing of the attacks are very screwd up (a trend that started with DS2 really but here it is cranked up to 11). And yet i think it is intentional. It is a message from the developers saying: Look, if you wanna approach this like DS1, pick up your straight sword and go, you can, but it will be EXTREMELLY difficult and even unfair (while still doable). This is a massive open world Action RPG (with emphasis on the "RPG", while so far the emphasis was on the "Action", maybe except DS2) with overpowered shit EVERYWHERE and for EVERY PLAYSTYLE. Go explore and become stronger. They REALLY want you to explore and approach the game as RPG rather than an Action game with RPG elements. Overall i think it is the easiest Souls Game.The enemies and the bosses are 1.5-2 times harder than any other game, but the potential player power is 2-4 times higher (and not for just one particular playstyle or build. You can become OP with several different playstyles).

[@dyroth]

Totally agree, I don’t enjoy using one single item to trivialize the boss fight, what’s the point of making your own build, which is the strongest part of the game, when you’ll have to end up using the same trivializing items

[@malissaradigan69]

I really do despise spirit summons as I feel as though that the bosses are simultaneously meant for and decimated by them. Take the bell bearing hunter, I blow at him in a way I've never been to at any other boss period, always summoned for him. On with it, my last play through I decided to beat him normally and it lasted 35 minutes before I summoned some +4 guy I hadn't used in 6 hours and proceeded to first try! It was extremely jarring and demotivating to the point I decided to take a break from the game to think about what just happened.

[@lucassse]

Nice vid! Do you play on PS4? I do, haven't started it yet since I'm finishing DS3. How is it on PS4?

[@carrotdtop_1]

well as someone who played it on the ps4 it’s pretty well optimize and play great haven’t experienced anything that notable in terms of bugs and lag.

[@lucassse]

@@carrotdtop_1 thank you!

[@chadofastora]

On PS4 the frames drop a bit in some areas with an abundance of enemies, and it looks a tiny bit less clear than on PC, but honestly nothing that detrimental. Also have fun with DS3

[@je6164]

45 secs of loading time upon deaths on PS4 vs 3 secs on PS5 (roughly)

[@Sigdowner]

I still firmly believe that a Sekiro-like deflection mechanic was going to be implemented but was cut in the end. In any case the bosses in this game can be easier if you just use the tools you are given. Not talking even summons, Lichdragon Fortissax was kicking my ass until I just put void cut on my greatsword and found windows to bonk its head with it. Then first try and done. It's cool because you get your own anime character, but doesn't hold a candle to mastering Sword Saint Isshin.

[@chives8980]

I think the reason why they are so divisive is because players are trying to fight them like Dark Souls 3 where you strictly i frame the bosses attacks but Elden Ring is so much more deeper than that. Strafing, walking around, directional dodges, jumping, stance breaking and attacking during delayed attacks and I guess players couldn't adapt quick enough. But Elden Ring easily has the second best bosses in the seriess, only Sekiro is better.

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

You've earned yourself a subscriber

[@facundovera3227]

Bloodborne fans: "Hurr. Hurr. But the game is a masterpiece! Hurr. Hurr."

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

@@facundovera3227 really don’t understand BB fanboys. Most of the base game bosses are ass.

[@chives8980]

@@highlightermarca-texto3281 I would say the mid base game bosses aren't good at all and are heavily carried by the dlc.

[@proto-type3201]

The only times I use spirits is when I'm running through ng+7 and beed backup because I'm getting my ass kicked by mogh,who does 95% of my health with 99 vigor... Or when doing a pacifist run

[@cardmossdn8058]

Overall solid video, I just have a couple comments. I hate seeing people complain about hoarah loux’s mid air pause during his grab. Gael does the exact same thing with multiple different attacks in his fight (lunge grab attack, plunging midair attack, midair crossbow combo). It’s just a cool way to give weight and power to an attack without making it blindingly fast, where were the people complaining about it back in 2017 when the ringed city dropped? It always irks me when people act like Elden Ring has more delayed attacks than other games. Ds3 and Bloodborne especially are just as rampant with weird delays as Elden Ring. It’s almost like they are a key aspect of fromsoft bosses, and that bosses would be boring and far too simple without them. Just look at friede’s crazy delayed grab, dancer’s entire moveset is awkward delays mixed with lightning fast attacks, pontiffs delay mixups with his greatsword + awkward combo timings, nameless king, soul of cinder has some crazy delayed attacks in phase 1 designed specifically to roll catch you, lady Maria has some of the most obnoxiously delayed snap attacks in the series, cleric beast and vicar Amelia have super delayed grabs and other attacks, I could go on and on. That’s not to shit on these bosses, I love these bosses. It’s to show that delays are not an inherently bad thing, and if people are gonna complain about them in ER, you have to be consistent and complain about them in other games. Yeah ER duo fights suck ass, that’s my main complaint about the game, they’re a major step back from ds3. Overall I agree with the idea that ER bosses are less fair than ds3, but think it’s greatly exaggerated, there are a ton of fantastic fights.

[@lalouwu6371]

Yesterday i was fighting pontiff and he has some really fast attacks with almost no windup that catch you so many meters away, no ER boss has that lol, some of those vordt knigts and the dancers delays feels so weird then attack really fast but is not totally unfair and there is no boss in ER who is as fast as them outside of kinda morgott and he feels like shit bcs his low damage, i dont know why ppl say that ER enemies feel like so fast and spamy and infinite combo(even normal enemies) and you have ds1 speed im like what game they played lol, not all enemies are vergil lol

[@cardmossdn8058]

@@lalouwu6371 Exactly. There are a shit ton of enemies in ds3 specifically that are way faster and more spammy than most ER enemies. The vordt/outrider knights, the lycanthropes in the road of sacrifices, the corvian knights in ariandel, the ghrus, the pontiff knights, the list just goes on and on.

[@lalouwu6371]

@@cardmossdn8058 i dont understad all those complains about enemies having long combos and being spamy tough, ppl dont want from to make the games easier but when they make it harder now from is doing the things wrong ? Idk why the fans are like that, i mean ds3 enemies were like that with ranged moves and combos that keep you in your toes in a back and fort, and i was amazed how from ds1 or 2 enemies with like 2 o 3 swings per combos in ds3 some enemies like that dancer spin combo were like 12 hits and i wanted more, give me 15 or more swing combos with AoE and enemies with high movility and agility and shit, its supossed to be challenging right? So make it even more, so randoms dont say that is the easiest game and from are going easy on us lol, i want enemies in the next games to be as fast and dangerous as ninja gaiden black spider ninjas

[@chadofastora]

I agree that delayed attacks have been common throughout the series, and I even made sure to mention in this video that they aren’t inherently bad, just that they feel out of place to me personally in ER. There are just a few that don’t really work IMO, like I could be wrong, but with Rykard’s slam it feels like no matter how long you run, whether it hits you depends on where you were before he started it. The one situation I’d say it feels unfair to me in dark souls 3 is dancer of the boreal valley, she’s the only boss in that game I still don’t fully understand. All in all, very fair take, and I guess I didn’t elaborate enough in the vid.

[@Castigar48]

maybe something about the combat flow of elden ring bosses doesnt feel as good to many players as previous games fights did. These complaints are coming from somewhere certainly and not without something to justify them

[@pillow_ben6799]

I have a feeling the reason that Elden ring bosses are so divisive are because Fromsoft has a new design philosophy for their bosses but the combat for the game remains almost identical to previous games so they feel out of place for many veterans of the franchise.

[@aydenbonnet9630]

Very well put

[@facundovera3227]

I never played DSIII, so maybe that's why I didn't have too much problem with ER bosses.

[@Bob-jh6xt]

Something I like about the bosses in this game, a lot of bosses will have combos or attacks that don't have a good opening, but then they chain them into another combo that they already had, so it's one that you'll probably already know the openings for. Funny how people have complained about it so much, yet I love it.

[@chadofastora]

It takes a little getting used to, but I also love it

[@mr_me-245]

Have you ever played monster hunter before?

[@chadofastora]

No, but it is on my long list of games to play. So one day I shall

[@TheActualMrLink]

4:55 HEAVENLYYYY!! POTEMKIIIIIN!! BUSTEEEEER!!

[@viss-kn4iu]

After beating this game RL1 twice and a no death run(no magic, no shields, no summons), I would like to point out something that I consider critical. One of the biggest issues I found in most criticisms against Elden Ring bosses is how so many people(which is perfectly seen in videos that show record such as Joseph Anderson’s and VG Matthew’s) have FAILED to understand this is no longer Dark Souls(1, 2 and 3 do this at varying speeds) in which the boss makes an attack and then you’re given time to punish…But here, so many bosses give you time in between their combos or while an attack is winding up. Have you all seen how much time Morgott, Maliketh, Hoarah Loux, Radagon, Margit, Godrick and 90% of the long combo bosses give you whenever they delay an attack and you’re confident enough to attack right there? In elden ring, you don’t wait for your turn. You FIND your turn.

[@unrecognizablewheat3394]

Based

[@viss-kn4iu]

I just dislike when influential people spread misinformation. Especially when they are deterring masses from having a worthwhile experience.

[@unrecognizablewheat3394]

@@viss-kn4iu No, I get it. That's what my entire youtube channel is built around, showing different ways that people can fight bosses in elden ring.

[@scotaloo77g73]

No one is failing to understand anything. You didn't find these openings because you played with a different mindset or playstyle, you learned where these punish windows are by spending a ridiculous amount of time fighting bosses. No one wants to do this. No one spends tons of hours practicing against each boss and learning every minute detail about their moveset just so they can land an extra attack during a combo. That's the last thing someone who's going through their first ER playthrough wants to do. This isn't a worthwile experience and that's why statistically nobody does it. If bosses aren't fun from the get go, the design is flawed.

[@viss-kn4iu]

@@scotaloo77g73 Good mornafternight. I find this reply to be rather interesting, actually. There may be some truth in this take, even though I feel like it is somewhat misguided/relies on misinformation. First up, I believe that I am the most appropriate person to tell how much time I’ve spent playing this game before writing my initial comment, thank you. I know how it may sound, but I am not a fan of people saying things they do not know about such as the amount of time a person has played in order to learn a game to favor their stance in a discussion. I have played this game around 200 hours since I got it, and my first run lasted around 40 hours. I do not know about you, but I do not consider it something unreasonable for an open world of that size. That and the fact that you are hardly going to need over 30 minutes to learn a whole moveset unless you’re criminally underskilled and get stuck at the beginning of a fight. Secondly, you are right in the part that many people do not even consider this during their first playthrough, but trying to point out that the major cause is an unreasonable investment of time is not correct though. Rather, I find it more logical to think that the main reason all these people end up complaining about the game and “bAd BoSs DeSiGn”(as if using slightly technical vocabulary made a take better) it’s because of no other than…. Not wanting to think! Yup, that’s it. I am not calling anyone stupid by any stretch, don’t get me wrong! I would like to suggest (as a level 1 runner) that maybe, if a person does not want to get hit in these games and still beat it, maybe their best bet is to use the brain more than numbers while fighting bosses. Most people overlevel, make use of magic, ashes of war, summons…In order to overcome many challenges they may come across, which is perfectly valid even if it takes less mechanical engagement. Many people play this game for the sake of entertainment and do not want to think much about it, so of course many are going to find themselves in a tough situation whenever the situation cannot be done casually via hit trading or obliterating an opponent in under a minute…They may call this a design flaw, an unfair challenge that has been poorly made for the sake of messing with the player’s patience. After clicking halfway in my first run, and confirming it after 16 runs of confirmation, this is GENIUS design for me. I know I know, some bosses are shit like Valiant Gargoyles, Godskin Duo, Borealis, Triple Chrystallians…But seriously, a game in which so many boss encounters have such mechanical complexity that need to be tackled with confidence is something that really fits From Software. Some gamers really aren’t giving Miyazaki the credit he deserves for giving us this game. Do we really want to go back to half baked titles such as Dark Souls 1, with 90% of the base game bosses being underwhelming and so many areas/moments being cancerous from a “hard but fair” perspective? For real, I recommend you all to play the earlier titles and see how much From has improved over time. This was something I did, and made me think of Elden Ring so highly. Just watch how VG Matthew or Joseph Anderson play ER in the clips they show in their critiques and you will clearly notice how passive their play, constantly walking/rolling away and barely taking the lead to attack. THEN, compare it to how “professional” Elden Ring players beat bosses: they’re always taking the lead and doing something other than waiting. For example, look at @UnrecognizableWheat videos to have a good sample. He knows what he’s doing, and I doubt he had to spend too much time learning bosses. “Hey, look! This man with many arms attached to his back and shoulders spends a while bracing the axe before swinging it! Why not attacking right there before dodging?” “Hm, this dude with an axe and a lion stand at his back sometimes starts walking around doing nothing, like the guy with horns and a trident…How about I attempt to attack him to keep the fight going since there seems to be a few seconds of passivity before he goes back to aggression?” This does not come with hours of practice, just by looking at things more creatively.

[@sueflewelling3657]

good video i have a very interesting question about elden ring story if you want to hear Chad?

[@chadofastora]

Sure, what is it?

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@chadofastora ok so you knew main character tarnished so I've seen somepeople say that what are they doing all of this since all that is happening hase nothing to do with them. what do you think?

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@chadofastora exuse me did my comment came in

[@chadofastora]

@@sueflewelling3657 Your comment did come through, I apologize, I just don’t know if I have a good answer to that, the allure of the power of the Elden Ring is probably intriguing I guess, but honestly the actual goal of the tarnished is one of the main areas I’m not super knowledgeable on with Elden Ring, so unfortunately I don’t really have a satisfying answer, sorry.

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@chadofastora ok thank you for answering my question. ps what do you think is the canon outfit for the tarnished. for me its the raging wolf armor.

[@akaroth7542]

Hate to say it: I like DS3's bosses better. Mohg, Astel, a d the Gargoyles were fun though. Random thought: I'm a fan of input or animation reads having weighted millisecond delay rolls to determine if they react in time.

[@dylanrice5617]

On the topic of spirit summons, many bosses in the game are deliberately designed around spirit summons. From soft didn’t just add them in last minute, they’re a core feature, and are treated like one. Some bosses are totally doable without summons, and are great fun (Godrick, limgrave morgott, rykard). But many bosses like the godskin duo are intentionally designed to use spirit summons. Some might call that lazy game design, but I think when you look at the mechanic from that point of view, it makes much more sense

[@Arda-dq4rt]

What do you mean by "old video thoughts have changed" What are your current thoughts then? Let us know in the description or send the link to new updated video

[@chadofastora]

Ok, I’ll just pin a comment where some guy asked how my thoughts changed and I answered

[@Arda-dq4rt]

@@chadofastora Yeah I absolutely agree with you. But I think it is not that different from what you alluded to in this video. I personally think ER has the best collection of bosses in any fromsoft game. Even sekiro. Genichiro and Isshin are amazing but apart from them, I have issues with all other bosses. Some of them like Divine dragon, demon of hatred and 2nd optional (but also forced) headless gorilla duo fight are all horrendous imo.

[@chadofastora]

@@Arda-dq4rt I just don’t think I have enough legitimate defense for the bosses in the video aside from “they’re cool” but maybe I’m misremembering, and I think them having windows between attacks instead of after is one of the best ways of explaining how they still work

[@Arda-dq4rt]

@@chadofastora Why would you misremember them. They have narrawerr windows and not so obvious attack opportunities not telegraphed unlike Sekiro but still has the same aggression with that game. You dont need to find those punish windows but IF you are able to do it, you enjoy the combat 100x more in my opinion. I just took a look at Artorias boss from DS1 dlc and I was disgusted with how mechanically borings, slow and bad boss it is. I dont think I can ever go back to ds1 2 or 3 after ER. They really perfected the formula by adding the sekiro aggression w,th Souls dodging mechanics. .

[@nitinnishant7783]

My friend is a professional game programmer and he loves Elden Ring. I have never seen him complaining about bosses in Elden Ring. I once asked him about all the criticism ER bosses get. This is what he explained to me:- 1. When it comes to programming boss moves, there's only so many test cases you can account for. Elden Ring bosses were designed keeping spirit summons and player summons in mind. These bosses fight like they are dealing with multiple opponents all the time like paranoid freaks... so as to not get stun-locked to oblivion by the player and his summoned helpers (even if the player is solo). 2. With the amount of bs powers at our disposal in Elden Ring (even some of the spirit summons are broken), there's just no way a boss is gonna pause after every combo for you to take your turn. This ain't no turn-based game. You have an abundant supply of stamina now and it regenerates very quickly. DS3 bosses won't last long in Elden Ring because they weren't programmed to. 3. ER bosses haven't been programmed to behave differently when dealing with solo players. This falls in line with Fromsoft's core philosophy of bringing everyone to the same level of discussion. This whole issue could have been solved by having two different sets of behaviors for bosses: one for solo challengers and one for the ones that summon help. Unfortunately, they chose to cater to the bigger demographics: the casuals and the newcomers. Probably because they have faith in the veterans? That veterans can handle a paranoid boss that's designed to fight multiple opponents? No? 4. You cannot deflect in Elden Ring, but you can guard counter and jump attack. Both of these can posture break your enemy and incapacitate them. You can literally break an ongoing boss combo by breaking their posture with an expertly timed jump attack. Use proper tools to make it easier to break posture. Don't play it like a Dark Souls game. Use all the new tools afforded to you in this new game. 5. You don't use guard counters, you don't use jump attacks, you don't make use of posture break system, you don't make use of all the magical tools and buffs/debuffs at your disposal, then why are you playing ELden Ring? Go back and play souls games.

[@chadofastora]

I agree with most of what you've said here, and I do use jumping attacks. Though I find guard countering rather risky when fighting most of the high intensity bosses. When it comes to not using overpowered tools, I just happen to be someone who's been in love with the series for a while and I just thoroughly enjoy fighting in a very straight up way. Like I said, I won't hate on people for using the game's tools to their advantage, I just happen to be a stubborn fromsoft enjoyer.

[@clementa918]

Whatever you type, that doesn't stop me from trying to bonk malenia to death naked with a club

[@enman009]

I haven't used summons in +5 playthroughs and I've seen that Fromsoft tweaked the game so that ganks take it slow and attack one at a time, unless you start attacking randomly. Regardless, hard agree on the last point. People fail to use the new mechanics, even when the tutorial cave tells you about posture breaking or stealth, that they blame the game even if you can get very consistent results with nearly every build.

[@smurrdog5364]

Its because we are playing Elden Ring and the Bosses are playing Sekiro

[@spunkygalaxy3436]

Man, you are SO underrated absolutely love your. Almost at 1k subs

[@chadofastora]

Thanks man, means a lot

[@spunkygalaxy3436]

@@chadofastora :)

[@klapeczq8312]

great vid as always

[@chadofastora]

Thanks

[@CrashtonVI]

To understand how to fight the bosses of Elden Ring better, you should look at Dark souls 1 and 2’s boss philosophy. In dark souls 1, you could dodge every attack, but you’d be left with not a lot of stamina afterwards, and in dark souls 2 with the not so much I-frames, both games emphasize placement of your character to avoid attacks better and strategy. Elden Ring brings back that idea by giving combos that are long and difficult to dodge if you only dodge backwards or dodge forwards. The game encourages you dodge attacks by rolling to the left, or right to get around bosses’ combos. I’m mainly speaking for Morgott here. If you dodge all of his combos backwards, you’ll get away maybe Scott free with no damage, but you’ll be left with no attack window. If you dodge into him, when you think his combo is done, he’ll do a knife swipe to punish you for being in front of him. The game is trying to communicate that you should dodge around Morgott to avoid most of his combos and punishes for standing in front of him

[@alcoyot]

The reason is cause Miyazaki intended them to be fought with summons. He said that an interview the player is supposed to strategically choose which summon to go with a boss. But serious souls players are gonna try to do it with no summon. It’s doable, but just not really how the game was designed. And the problem is summons are way overtuned.

[@LeDardeursPalace]

I had a lot of fun with the game as a whole but bosses were not great that's for sure. I barely remember any boss battle for the fun factor, not many of em for being terrible either but they were so forgetable. I hated having to exploit the game or summoning people to make sure it wasn't just overwhelmed city. I played all the the souls game and have so many great memories of these boss fights, Elden Ring felt more frustrating than anything on that aspect.

[@ECRRebel]

With Maliketh, I'd rather not fight phase 1 again if I die in phase 2. The Beast Clergyman in my opinion is not a fun fight. Instead just give me phase 2 with a full health bar whenever I return.

[@unrecognizablewheat3394]

I feel as though Elden Ring isn’t trying to have you wait between huge combos in order for you to get a hit in, but rather is trying to tell you to weave in attacks in the middle of these huge ass combos. With Morgott, you can find very consistent and safe punishes if you try to look for more creative ways of interacting with the fight rather than just waiting for the boss to finish a attack. This same mentality can be applied to most of not all bosses in the game.

[@tweedilde8089]

I love almost every boss in the game my main issues are for those certain few that are unfair. And yes I know souls games are meant to be unfair but I mean more unfair that unfair, looking at you bell bearing hunters. I genuinely love the godskins although I’m yet to face the duo so that opinion may change. My biggest frustration is the bell bearing hunters and that bast*rd Elmer. They’re moveset just isn’t fun or rewarding. It’s a dps race as there’s no way of backing off to heal. Gods forbid you try create distance as you just get punished and being close isn’t any better with that stupid grab and spinny sword. I know it’s a matter of get good and I did(except Caelids he’s still on my procrastination hit list) but I don’t care he’s a pr*ck and I’d sooner eat a spoon then have to fight another.

[@apon2390]

I only encountered the bell bearing hunter version once(and died immediately), so can't comment on that, but Elmer is a very fair boss. Everything he does is avoidable and you can heal if you are careful. And fighting him can be fun if you figure his moveset out.

[@thomasmeglasson228]

"I don't get hit hardly at all these days". From a comment "Sure it feels cheesy the first three times that you die to them". This. I don't want to have to go up against every boss 10 times to beat it. Especially in a game as large as this. I don't want this to be basically a second job I have to spend hours in every day for the next year or whatever to get through. Some of the bs moves, add them in new game plus or something for the rabid git gud crowd. Especially when most enemies in the world feel so trivial. When I can ride around one shoting most of the enemies in the open world and then not dent a boss that one shots me in the same area, you've got some very dissatisfying balance issues. Especially since, Dark Souls bosses felt like "Learn me to defeat me." Elden ring bosses feel like "go grind to actually do some damage, and go watch a video to figure out what I'm actually good against, and my moveset since you don't get to see most of it after I one shot you or because I'm no even on the screen with the horrible camera issues, and to learn how anything actually works because we ain't explaining jack."

[@facundovera3227]

Bud got deleted by Starscourge Radahn at 24 VIG.

[@minerman60101]

I think with Elden Ring's bosses, the late game fatigues the player with all of its reused content which compounds all of the issues that the late game bosses have, since you're almost fighting them in bad faith and are wanting to just get the game over with. I think Maliketh suffers the most from this, since a lot of his attacks are unintuitive. I watched a RL1 no weapon upgrade etc. player fighting Maliketh, and it feels quite different to my experience with the boss. A lot of first phase moves which seemingly come out of nowhere are actually just in the middle of a combo, and that isn't at all clear, along with it being unclear which moves signify the end of a combo. Part of it might be that he does so much damage that your brain activates "run away and heal" mode before you come to understand the combos in either phase, and where to punish. I'm a long way from him in my RL1 run, so I'll hopefully gain a better understanding of that fight once I am forced to best him. Onto praise, they fixed the way that Godskin Apostle punishes healing and that I praise them immensely for; on my RL1 playthrough that fight was seemingly impossible but an immensely satisfying and fair challenge to conquer. Mohg and Radahn are also extremely well designed. Mohg feels pretty much completely fair once you learn all of his combos and realize that sticking close to him in the second phase is the way to go. Radahn just has a couple moves which felt cheap: the floor AoE lightning that can kill you right as it spawns and a move where he slams both swords on the ground right in front of him that the camera can be too close up to see. Otherwise he felt completely fair and satisfying to fight solo. Godrick has too little health I'd say, maybe he could get 1.5x what he has now. I didn't even need to learn the second phase on my RL1 run. Or he could get the Inner Genichiro treatment and have a harder version in a boss rush. And of course Morgott has too little health. Renalla I enjoyed more in the RL1 run, though I think she could use some spells that require different tactics to dodge.

[@victorprati7908]

A game shouldn't be judged in comparison with similar games. It should stand its own valor by itself. I oppose the idea of constantly comparing ER to DS series. Spirit ashes aren't that black and white when used against bosses and the amount of upgrades you do on them helps fine tuning the challenges While there might be more/less appropriate builds for bosses there's no such a thing as mandatory specific builds to deal with them

[@Tyabann]

just summon lmao

[@wasabcwasabc]

Elden ring certainly doesn't have the best bosses in the series DS3 does. In that the game bosses actually put on the pace and there's a satisfying fluidity do dodging all of their attacks and they have good reasonable mix-ups to keep you on your feet. Elden rings design philosophy clearly was just "let's add endless high damaging combos to make the game more challenging or for the sake of "spectacle" inb4 "you're casual!" I beat the game twice no summons and my opinion hasn't changed. Because you can't dodge the many of the bosses attacks it incentives you into two playstyles, play extremely passive and only go for attacks that you know you can guarantee a free hit on, OR play extremely aggressive and go for the most damage outputting option you have which is usually a two-handed jump attack. There's not a single boss that's this polarizing in previous souls' games, as I stated before they have this natural fluidity where you can stay in the pocket and get many hits off, or on the other hand you can stay at range at wait for combos to finish to get hits. They also all have readable wind ups. I'm not a fan of the jumping attack either it's too powerful, on my second playthrough I came to the conclusion how stupid jumping attacks are; they're literally the best strategy for beating 99% of the bosses and take the human element out of fighting bosses in you being a mere human who uses guile, speed, and agility to overcome their might. (I think poise options are great versus humanoid enemies) Jumping attacks are a good inclusion but they're too powerful, they should do significantly less posture damage and you should take more damage or be staggered if you're hit mid jumping attack. The main way to stance breaks an enemy should be with charged R2s in my personal opinion to make them more viable alongside jumping attacks. Overall, I thought Elden rings boss line up was very mid, the one I enjoyed the most was Maleina who I feel that many people don't understand. In her first phase she's incredibly passive and can even be punished from neutral, she has choregraphed hyper armor attacks where her blade glistens and she will move forward to attack you in multiple ways, this is very readable and easy to punish, she also has some basic flurries that can easily be poised through her. The only attack Maleina has which is bullshit is waterfowl as it's unreasonably punishing and has no real rhythm to it although you can significantly reduce the damage taken by dodging through it. Her second phase is much of the same but with more mix-ups but she's even easier to stagger and essentially bully. Maleina was one of the few bosses I genuinely enjoyed and as she has a very respectable skill cap unlike the rest who came down to purely jumping attacking and outtrading as well as waiting for their bullshit combos to end.

[@wasabcwasabc]

I feel like Elden Ring in general suffers from fanaticism as many people nowadays borderline worship games are downright ignorant to the flaws presented in them i.e., "Elden ring is a flawed masterpiece" that literally makes no sense "Elden ring is better than Ubisoft's open worlds." so repeat dungeons, repeat bosses, but it's better because it has no map makers and horrible NPC quests that have no quest logs. Not to mention it's many people's first souls' game so they'll likely see it through a very optimistic light. For example, the people spending 100+ hours in the game even stupid numbers like 200 when realistically the game has 100 hours of content at maximum. I had fun but it certainly didn't live up to the hype of being the game of the decade and I believe 100% that a game within the current decade will surpass it in renown, probably elder scrolls 6.

[@billyboleson2830]

@@wasabcwasabc nope, look up Matthew matosis lost arts of demons souls. That game has the most interesting bosses

[@AlcyonEldara]

@@wasabcwasabc I feel like DS3/Sekiro/BB in general suffers from fanatism as many people nowadays borderline worship the boss are downright ignorant to the flaws presented in them i.e. "DS3/Sekiro/bb has the best boss fights" that litteraly makes no sense.

[@megoodatgame8535]

I think that these bosses are very fair when you learn them. But when you don’t know how to fight them and it’s your first time, you likely won’t win. And honestly Waterfowl dance is complete bs the first time you fight her However, and this is definitely a controversial take, I think that bullshit in video games is fine. It really does not matter if Godfrey has a very delayed grab or Malenia’s waterfowl is unfair or anything like that, since you can just die and learn from your mistakes. Or if you didn’t even make a mistake and just died cause you didn’t know what the boss was doing, then nice time you do know and you can start learning on that attempt

[@felipeguedescampos851]

I don't see much of a problem with the duo fights, just use spirit summons. I understand not liking to use them on single fights, since the summons distract the bosses too much, but that isn't problem in duo fights, since you are fighting 2 bosses

[@shiny-piplup]

Dark souls 1 has 2 very unbalanced and unfun bosses :)

[@Slow1337ex]

I think the main point behind all this is the part in your video that touches upon needing powerful stuff and that the game should be possible to beat only using fists. For better or for worse Elden Ring placed the rpg aspect in higher regards than any other souls game by From. The game, being open world, is basically telling you that the way to overcome the game is to explore the world, pick up many levels and many weapons, spells and skills, and within that pool there's always many options for each situation. You don't even are limited to only using the most op stuff to get in a fair balanced ground in regards to the challenges of the game, there's many options for literally any play style. For better or worse the aspect of beating the bosses on relying only on the skill of learning and dodging the boss is a bit downplayed here, and in a way I think it's for the best. If it's going to be a rpg, with diversity in setup and play style, it should be like Elden Ring, because it did it fairly well, this aspect of having so much options and finding which one can be used for each situation is so much fun on it's own. I think Elden Ring bosses are amazing, but I wouldn't say I disagree with some of the criticisms. I think the game is a bit wacky with the balancing. Unfortunately, for better or worse, balancing was made with spirit summons in mind, and it didn't turn out well because with them the game is just too easy and sabotages a fundamental aspect of the fun of the bosses, which is the part that the one beating and overcoming them are YOU and only you. Without them we're already at a bit of a disadvantage. I also haven't used them. In a way I should be thankful the game isn't as stupidly hard without them as it could have been. But maybe it should have been, because in this case using them wouldn't feel like we had such a big advantage. But I also think the Mimic Tear is the biggest culprit here. Anyway. The bosses are a bit overtuned, expecting that we do the same, because the resources to do so are there, but sometimes I think people really exaggerate. The bosses present you crazy things to deal with and you should find a way to deal accordingly. It always was like this. The only moments where this felt like bullshit was on badly thought duo bosses like Valiant Gargoyles. Most of the time it was something new to learn. It's not like finding ways to deal with waterfowl dance was so impossible. Then again I'm speaking from my point of view, but sometimes people speak about bothersome things about Elden Ring bosses as if only them did it. Delayed attacks? Dark souls 3 was entirely based on them. Fast and aggressive combos, spam, aoe, all routine at this point. Look at Orphan of Kos. Elden Ring wasn't the first game to do input reading either. There's always many ways to beat the bosses and it's like figuring out a puzzle, and that's not something bad or bothersome. Sometimes you have to cave in and adapt, and sometimes that means not playing EXACTLY like you wanted, but if you got yourself in the position of playing an actually hard game you have to be always read to the fact that sometimes you've got to adapt and think out of the box. That box sometimes is the notion of needing to find openings. What if not always you should wait for the end of the combo? What if you should trade sometimes? Or better, find an positioning or attack with certain range or coverage that gives you the necessary opportunity? Those are just examples. We've come way too far from the days where the only thing we could have relied on are weapon basic attacks and that soul arrow spell. Anyway, don't know how much my perspective is general, because I'm a veteran in souls and veeeery receptive to their challenges, more so than any other type of game. Maybe saying that the game is too easy with summons is not the reality for the majority of people, but even if it isn't I still think they weren't the best way to control the challenge of the game. In resume, I think in my experience I didn't think the bosses were bullshit, but I also don't think they're perfect given the overall balancing of the game, although I also think the game got a lot of it right in this regard of balancing. I also talk about Elden Ring bosses thinking most of the time purely the remembrance bosses. The other bosses I barely consider them real bosses.

[@itsame7491]

It's eazy, most of em are too good for a lot of people

[@morepower6800]

Elden ring bosses are absolutely amazing

[@jackalx2154]

It's a simple case of franchise creep. Elden Ring feels like it was designed with Sekiro's mechanics in mind. And it would have been a better game with the deflection system and posture bars.

[@herbievalerius5740]

I don't have the patience to fight Malenia. I am not that good a player at the game, and I am okay with it. I have always played games based more on strategy, rather than blunt force or cheap tactics. People have said Malenia is easy- which is a loaded statement. Malenia is not hard or easy, she just differs from every other boss in the game- the other bosses always have a strategy, a weakness, and more importantly, they teach you to follow a pattern, and be rewarded. Malenia doesn't do this- she is cheap, she is repetitive, she is random, there's no pattern.

[@unidentified2026]

Malenia is great because she has very few moves where she just hands you an attack window. All the other moves you have to study her attacks and find opportunities to attack in the middle of combos. These opportunities also are the result of not just dodging at the right time, but also dodging into the right position.

[@davidnewhart2533]

Honestly if you ask me, the game's bosses were just outright disappointing. I can hardly remember any fights that stood out to me. The only ones that stood out were Godrick, Radahn, Astel, Godskins, and Godfrey. And yes I will argue that Godskin Duo is a good boss fight and that people need to Git Gud at that fight. Edit: I'll add Fire Giant to that list too.

[@teenagesilver6512]

Elden ring raises the bar, every miniboss or even mob here to murder you, and you have all tools to fight back. Why you don't use lightroll or guickstep? You will recieve MUCH more windows and recovery reset significantly faster. Why you don't know about the game well, and try to discuss? I see you don't want to use shields. Fine, but now you can block with large weapons and do the counter to broke their concentration, yea you can ripost them, and hell this is satisfying. You midrolling ofc you will straggle cause it's not the broken way to be invincible (like in ds3). Elden solved all problems previos games have. I think, if you playing game with dex build and midrolling cause u want this poise from armor.. you doing somethink wrong. You play and rely on rolls, while wearing mid armor.. ofc you have troubles with recoverys and windows with your midrolls. Eldenring is balanced, except (duo crucible and duo gargoyles)

[@wasabcwasabc]

Quickstep is pure cheese the same as light roll. You're literally saying why don't you abuse incredibly high i-frames to trivialize bosses. There was literally 0 incentive for people to use these in previous souls' games. Not that's even necessary in Elden ring, just the game has attracted more casuals who need a crutch to get through it.

[@teenagesilver6512]

@@wasabcwasabc what are you talking about?... I said this for scrubs who can't play the game, and always complain.

[@rodrigonenhum4832]

worst boss line up since demon's souls. (ds2 doesn't count/shouldn't exist)

[@liot_7]

Imagine if elden ring had the bloodborne sidestep