Why are Players Leaving Duties more Frequently?

[@ode-blu]

I once saw a player jumping out of an arena during an extreme, and writing in all caps WIFE WATER BROKE BYE and left. I hope they are ok

[@LazyJesse]

They got their priorities straight, good.

[@kisato2687]

He's got his mechanics down for the irl QTE lmao

[@linkaiser8709]

I'd say said player is to be excused. Priorities are priorities. I'd ditch my actual job responsibilities on the spot if that happened.

[@MrLightlike78]

double points if the player character was a lalafell

[@iknothatukno]

Hopefully her water was repaired :(

[@mahouningen]

I have never left a duty unless others do, but I'm also the type to find it exciting to join a duty in progress. There is something about that added layer of unpredictability with a duty in progress that I can't quite put my finger on. I guess it feels like an instance to be doubly helpful, which is really rewarding.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yes there is both the excitement of "what was so hard that someone gave up?!" and also that I think replacement duties often are some of the more challenging ones! 😁

[@JayAshkevron]

Yeah I like filling in as well, especially as a healer main...like stuff had to go really wrong for most healers to drop or get kicked. So its always fun to hear the story and help get the party through whatever the challenge is.

[@NastyMick]

Oh it's a blast joining duties in progress. I almost wish there was an option to do it exclusively. It's also really funny hearing people explain what went wrong.

[@WarGiver]

I joined msq roulette party in progress and landed in current praetorum during gaius and was locked out of the fight.

[@thelazuritenetwork]

lol ok

[@astresengine]

The simplest and easiest fix for sprouts queueing into extremes is to simply rework the duty to be provided by the Wandering Minstrel and not have a blue quest associated with it. I’ve had way too many sprouts say that they’re in an extreme because a quest told them to do it, and it’s understandable that they want to remove it from the journal. The way we have it in current expansions is perfect, and I have never seen anything not in a quest in mentor roulette (some heavensward extremes, any extreme past stormblood).

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That would indeed even out that part a lot! 😊

[@Smarfton]

Free accounts can NOT use PF to do these extremes. There's a reason Mentor Roulette is filled to the gills with ARR/HW/SB Ex trials (and in that order of the amounts).

[@NatiiixLP]

@@Smarfton There's no way to know they're free players. The much simpler explanation is that there's an exponential fall-off of players based on their playtime, and the expansions are so long that most people simply haven't made it further. And the few people who are past 4.0 MSQ, but not finished with 7.0 MSQ, are likely to have grown to prefer PF over DF by that point in their journey. The newer the player, the higher the likelihood of using DF over PF, either due to lack of experience, the stress of dealing with PF people, etc.

[@lolthesystem]

​@@Smarfton The overdue solution would be to rework how PF works entirely and make an actual raid finder. I know we technically DO have a raid finder, but I mean more in the sense of it being used for all the harder content (Extremes, Ultimates, Unreals and content of a similar caliber) and leave PF for everything else (Dungeons, Maps, Normal modes, advertisings, etc...). Also make it cross-DC by default so we stop having to DC hop to do content in a timely fashion (why is this still not a thing???). Then get better tags for parties (why is there no "Duty Completion without having cleared this week" tag yet???) and include one specifically for free trial players so they can run content that's really not feasible in DF outside of JP. It would be an enormous QoL improvement for everyone!

[@Smarfton]

​@@NatiiixLP no, you can't know, but it's safe to assume it makes up the lions share. I did the mentor roulette achievement during ew. In 2000 runs I saw nothing but arr ex trials, then a substantially less amount of HW and finally SB. I got a single Memoria Misera extreme ever. I, and others most likely also gunning for the mentor achievement had in some cases macros set up telling people to stop using Duty Finder for ex trials and use PF instead. Sometimes the sprout would say they didn't know, or didn't know about unsyncing the fights, but a lot more said what I mentioned above "Can't use PF as a free account." Anecdotal, maybe, but it's a better suggestion that random chaos.

[@liasprings6502]

It's really interesting to see this video as a Dynamis native. This might just be me but i don't think i saw anyone leave a duty for reasons that weren't real life complications since Dawntrail launched. Hell, I still get excited whenever alliance raid roulette pops.

[@Kurainuz]

in omega/chaos im seeing a lot of people that once there is just a failed attempt at a raid they leave, even if it was a great atempt

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That does make sense! As I recall, dynamis is in a state where at times, as you describe, a roulette popping at all is a blessing! I could imagine the faster queues at times causes players to value actually getting in somewhere much less since, they can just go again 🤔 And indeed, I've also seen groups where you're a replacement because the group wiped... Once 😂

[@tristemsaris7739]

Yeah same actually. I've been doing a lot of Lvl lately so I've been spamming Duties and thus far only one person has abandoned, and I'm pretty sure they DC'd

[@kyledabearsfan]

my main is Aether but alt on Dynamis and people on Dynamis are far more likely to dip

[@SolunaFate37]

@@kyledabearsfan Legit question out of curiosity. When "people on Dynamis are far more likely to dip", are they Dynamis natives, or data center travellers?

[@squallstrife999]

I think the best solution for the join party in progress would be, everyone is opted in join party in progress unless it's your first time queueing for the dungeon/trial

[@OriginalCreatorSama]

Counter offer: Join Party In Progress is auto-toggled to "On" once you hit all the following qualifiers. 1) Not a sprout. 2) Have reached the current level cap. 3) Have completed current MSQ and at least one job questline for the current expansion. Before these are met, it can be toggled on manually. After these are met, it can be toggled off manually. This helps prevent the issue i had as a sprout before they changed the toggle to auto-off: Unlocking a dungeon, queueing for it, and ending up at the final boss as soon as you're out of the opening cutscene. It also helps make sure that the replacements have at least run the duty a time or two and have some idea what they're doing. Rules 2 and 3 also makes sure that nobody has that problem when a new expansion drops, assuming the FF14 mods flip the universal toggle for it every time the level cap goes up.

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

Here's an even more technical solution: Specific instances are opt in. *Roulettes* are opt out.

[@JetEriksen]

I open this video and hear "WHY ARE YOU LEAVING?" And immediately get big "WHY ARE YOU RUNNING?" energy.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Perfect! 🤣

[@diceking7469]

Same.

[@RoboTrigger]

Personally I feel like I've encountered a lot more 'self-interested' behaviour overall since DT's release, people leaving dungeons as well as things like Hunts: I notice specifically for the special S rank that has a chance to spawn in all of the DT areas after an S is downed; people will stop and camp at the location the boss spawns at and will kill it before thoses who helped kill the spawned B ranks have a chance to get credit and have even seen the spawn fail due to the B spawns not being killed with people unwilling to leave the boss spawn spot out of fear of missing out. so I feel much wider issues are at play.

[@dragonriderabens9761]

That is some serious WoW player behavior Played almost nothing but WoW between 2010-2018 This behavior is extremely typical of WoW players And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we’re getting a lot of WoW player behavior after getting a massive influx of WoW refugees into FFXIV

[@raefevakhar]

@@dragonriderabens9761Returning player. I guess this explains the wall2wall, no mercy, no mechanics explanations, subtle insults to avoid reports, brute force groups that I never saw pre shadow bringers

[@Poldovico]

​@@raefevakharit's likely a mix. Shadowbringers removed TP, which made AoE spam unlimited. Wall to wall has been standard since. Older dungeons have been updated to use the modern standardized markers, meaning below extreme level they mostly explain themselves, and there's been a cultural shift to immediate explanations being seen as spoiling unless asked for. Overall it's less talkative, which I find unfortunate, but you can't lay it all at the feet of wow players.

[@moofy69]

SS ranks need a few minute invuln timer when spawned so people stop early pulling. Its an ouriborus game play mechanic that basically requires you to camp the end to avoid missing out, which means nobody wants to do the spawning

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

So fun fact about sprouts, I learned recently with a primarily new party for a DT normal trial that they're the ones MOST willing to learn quickly. I was impressed by it and I genuinely wish I could've given all the first-timers a commendation, reminded me of when I was a kid raiding in Destiny 1 since I was a quick learner back then. We need more players like them. To those first-timers, you've gained immense respect from this veteran and I hope you all remain with the community

[@Lrbearclaw]

As someone who raided in EverQuest and used to do raid carries in D1, you are completely correct. The issue is rarely the newbies, they are excited to try and learn. The issue is almost always the arseholes who think they know everything yet turn out to be the flat tire.

[@thesunthrone]

Yeah, the "I have been playing since 1.0, I know what I'm doing" teammates that do not, in fact, know what they're doing is a somewhat noticeable reoccurence - mostly because they make an ass of themselves for no reason. It's totally fine to mess up or play poorly due to distractions etc, a simple "oh crap, my bad, sorry guys" is all you need to say and we'll get through the dungeon no problem.

[@GayCherryJuice]

I've had experiences on either side of the coin. Sprouts who are willing to learn, will take advice quickly and adapt well. Then there was the conjurer I had in pre-reworked Stone Vigil who casted cure once the entire dungeon and only spammed stone. Not even aero. We asked him nicely to heal 10+ times. Checked if he spoke english- He did. My friend who played summoner was forced to spam heal to keep me alive. We couldn't even kick him because he was party lead...

[@Achridian]

⁠@@GayCherryJuiceI had one time that was fine in terms of healing output (also on stone vigil, but after rework) where the whm kept casting Cure 3 on me (I think I was gnb). THE. WHOLE. DUNGEON. It was the most perplexing healer I think I’ve met in a while.

[@kierenm4810]

It might not be the same for everyone, but for me, I tend to leave duties a lot sooner now than I did before. I've been playing since Stormblood. Over the years I've run with enough toxic groups that I decided: if I saw early warning signs, I bail. Particularly toxic groups aren't that common. So it's not like I'm leaving even once a month or anything. It's just a matter of "this looks like it's going to go south very quickly. Do I feel up to dealing with this today? No? I'm out." I care more about my sanity than finishing a duty. The thirty minute penalty gives me an excuse to go cuddle my pets.

[@scarletluna4536]

As long as you are not a mentor ... then you are fine.

[@nxils]

I'm not a leaver since I can usually just zone out and go with the flow if some runs go 'bad' for whatever reason. The one time I did take the initiative to leave first (probably first time this year) was last month at Dusk Vigil where a first-timer(? watched cutscene) tank just wouldn't turn on their stance no matter how much we asked them(please, auto-translate, ) but would also do wall2wall... And, after everyone else died and they also finally died, they wouldn't release but waited for the healer to run back and rez. I decided eating that 30 minute penalty wasn't a big deal, after all >_< Good luck to them in the future, I suppose.

[@MegaDarkness5000]

That sounds like a kick vote for the tank instead of eating the 30

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah I also think that specific situation called for a vote kick 😰 If they are actively being detrimental to the group and refuse to cooperate, that can be the only option!

[@nxils]

@@MegaDarkness5000 yeah, in hindsight, it would've been a better call, but I used those 30 minutes to take a break and stretch :D got too annoyed in the moment to think logically

[@ashtorith]

As a warrior I had a similar experience with a healer in a level 100 Alexandria dungeon. He thought that as a warrior I had to do all the healing and refused to heal even after wiping multiple times. I think it was a premade group since they refused to kick him.

[@wrongname2702]

​@@ashtorith hmm healing a warrior... That sounds weird. I mean I like to play how low can you go when I'm healing a war but I still hit like 2 ocgd to keep them in the clear 😂 now drk on the other hand feel like all I do is hit heal buttons which is upsetting.

[@captainsavvy07]

I was doing a trial roulette this week and got Zodiark and had a tank and healer immediately leave while new player was watching the cutscene. I have 100% felt the dark urge to immediately leave an ARR ex or Rathalos ex in mentor roulette (though I've never acted on it), but to dip out of a regular ass trial roulette? Thankfully it didn't take long to refill.

[@Cyliano]

Had a o12n normal raid roulette with 2 sprouts, 5 dudes left after the first pull wiped less than 2 mins in. We cleared in the first pull after it refilled

[@scarletluna4536]

Glad you didn't do it because that is the purpose of Mentor Roulette, to teach the sprouts the extremes including ARR ones. I wish I got the ARR extremes way more often!

[@florianlison8085]

It definitely got worse. I saw a whole alliance leave during Sircus tower, three or four during Rathalos, and healers left more frequently in Dzemael and Aurum Vale. Sad.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

A whole alliance gone! That's more than I've ever seen at once I think! 😰

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

That happened to me recently in World of Darkness. There were only four left in my group. I'll admit that I dip if it's a Shadowbringers raid (too obnoxiously long) or certain EW trials (the instant AOE mechanics piss me off personally and frustrate the hell outta me), but it's pretty rare. Sometimes I'll just stick it out. Now I will say I have a 3-strike system in place for myself ONLY if players are refusing to do mechanics (happens the most in Aetherochemical's final boss. Had a tank standing in every AOE a few weeks back even though the DPS and I had a marker on our head and said to follow us. The healer got the commendation for trying to learn the fight). It saves me a lot of sanity.

[@EntityXIII]

TBF, Rathalos. Since late StB, people have been split as to whether or not they even want to see the normal mode, let alone the extreme one. DD's kind of a relic and a beast. You might have a new healer who isn't ready for a big pull, even though DD's first room was literally designed in a way that trains those big pulls with safety zones. But you might also have a healer who craves those big pulls but has a tank that just single-pulls the whole way and refuses to do more. DD's first room is incredibly boring on single pulls, because ranged mobs and tiny packs make aoe skills almost useless and there are so many packs that, as long as you're in a safety zone and the tank is using a cooldown or two, do so little damage to you (making heals almost unnecessary). Stone stone stone stone ad nauseam.

[@scarletluna4536]

See, my attitude is let them leave. I was that Paladin that was MT with 2 healers dead and constantly healing the DPS that were alive to keep things going. 7 commendations for when I did that run ... leavers ... don't need them because they were probably trash anyways. I will take the dead healers on the ground again before I take those leavers in a future run!

[@majikalmcmuffin6258]

Give 👏 us 👏 an 👏extreme 👏 roulette

[@Forginswagger]

I second this.

[@dragumkirisute1998]

Rewards better be worth it if they do

[@aurumvale9908]

for it to be filled with idiots that expect you to carry them? no thank you

[@hirokjyotideka5571]

​@@aurumvale9908 you basically described savage raiding.

[@Null_Experis]

@@hirokjyotideka5571 That happen a lot to you? Every party you join has this problem where they can't clear? Maybe the constant is the problem?

[@StarshadowMelody]

"You cannot opt out of joining dungeons in progress" That sounds absolutely _MISERABLE_ for story. Holy fuck.

[@HildeTheOkayish]

I think it should not work for first time runs. I had that experience when i first did the nier raids where i joined close to the end of the last raid. But really if joining a dungeon that you haven't done yet you should not be able to join while it is in progress

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

Here's an idea: What about doing that for roulettes specifically?

[@sladevalen]

I count myself lucky. Ive made it to 98 and have yet to ever have a leaver in any instance in my entire time playing the game. The worst is having some people disconnect but they have all come back a few minutes later, most likely due to internet issues

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is great! My biggest worry when I see leavers in msq relevant content is actually that it would really sour the journey for a new player, so it is good to hear that you at least were unaffected! 😊

[@Dunker401]

Man you are lucky always happens to me like once every other week

[@scarletluna4536]

Or DDOS issues since it seems like we are hit almost every week these days!

[@SupremeViola]

Something to keep in mind is that people in ARR extremes are far more likely to be free-trial players, and free-trial players cannot use Party Finder. I will say as a player who's been around less than three months who has yet to skip daily roulette - sometimes being That Crazy Person who runs ten Praetoriums in a day for the tomestones for gear - I've only seen someone leave once and only twice had to replace someone (the other was when they DCed and we waited fifteen minutes for them to come back); twice in three months with several opportunities every day is a pretty decent ratio. It may be because I'm on Dynamis and it seems fairly relaxed compared to what I've heard about other DCs.

[@RockR277]

What's really funny is when you join a duty in progress right as the last party member leaves, and find yourself in a duty alone. Or you enter while they're actively voting to disband. I haven't personally noticed a significantly higher amount of leavers. I wonder if it's only certain data centers? I'm on Primal. Edit: I also wonder if maybe Primal just already had a lot of leavers 😂

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Ah yes like the party of theseus I had in ghost park a while ago 😂 "why did people leave?" "bro i dont know, we are replacements too!"

[@EntityXIII]

Gods, that's a pain when you're a DPS and you finally get into something after a lengthy queue. Then the instance just ends, or everyone else just leaves, so you're left having to wait even longer.

[@bellamango6708]

I've played on most data centers pretty widely but I started on primal and I have the say the amount of trolls there is definitely higher than other DC. when aether gets a troll they're BAD bad, and crystal has more casual players on average but they usually have a nicer attitude about it/genuinely try

[@BGrimoire]

Also a Primal player and honestly had few cases of duty quitting. Maybe I'm just lucky, but most of the time when I saw someone quits they justify as something coming up irl. That being said I did met people quitting at the start of duties, especially raids. Talk between the alliances pointed that some people thinks that a raid is too long they quit and eat the penalty, making me think "what's even the point playing then"?

[@Necrofitz]

Funnily enough I've become less of a leaver since DT launched. With all the returners that barely remember how to play, more patience has been needed as a whole to see a dungeon or raid from start to finish. It may help that I've had the join in progress toggle on for the past month or so since I realized it was opt in, and granting mercy to groups suffering leavers themselves really grants some perspective.

[@Necrofitz]

Speaking of leavers since DT, as a fun story, I did MSQ roulette and rolled Prae a week or two back. The healer disappeared during the first cutscene before the Iron Giant. It took until after Nero to get a replacement as the summoner spammed Physik for all it was worth. Mandatory opt in to backfill would have moved that along so much faster.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

@LuckyTrouble777 that is an excellent example of the situation I described that replacements can be much harder to find than... Initial party members! 😅

[@4SkippyRoo]

I've played long enough now to know I don't have to suffer thru a bad experience with other players in roulettes. As a sprout I would let things people said/did sour my mood, now I just leave duty and go craft.

[@IosLocarth]

I wonder if it'd help if they gave an incentive bonus for having Queue In Progress enabled. Maybe a hefty Gil reward or a % bonus on tomestones awarded for clearing?

[@viysnjor4811]

I was thinking this, maybe even increase the reward every time someone leaves, so if you get filled into a really bad party you at least have a hefty reward waiting if you manage to carry them through lmao

[@AlexLaw-y9j]

They do need to up tombstone rewards. Takes frigging forever to cap.

[@IosLocarth]

@@AlexLaw-y9j I mean capping tomes isn't that hard if you know what you're doing. Running every duty roulette will get you pretty damn close in a single day and a singular A rank train caps you

[@scarletluna4536]

People would purposely try to abuse this system and you would have people leaving more often just to boost the rewards. Since getting DCed still allows them to return tot he duty in case of internet issues, those who LEAVE should be given a penalty of at least 24 hours where they can't claim ANY rewards including XP.

[@IosLocarth]

@@scarletluna4536 that is waaaaaay to harsh of a penalty. And this isn't even that exploitable. They could experiment with how much to increase the rewards so there's merits to doing it but not to the point people are going to abuse it like that. All you have to do is make it so you can't join a duty you've already left

[@Dw7freak]

I played WoW during WotLK, so I remember how doing any multiplayer content was prior to the Dungeon Finder (tedious, the answer is tedious). WoW didn't implement the Dungeon Finder until late into WotLK's patch cycle, patch 3.3.0, which was the last major update patch and introduced ICC and its associated dungeons. The Oculus wasn't that hard by that point, as WoW didn't have any gear syncing and it was a 3.0 dungeon, but it was the most tedious of the dungeons because of the mount mechanics. The reason people ran The Oculus (Heroic) at this point was because they put a reward for completing it in the Dungeon Finder as the randomly chosen dungeon, a bag that gave the endgame currency and either a stat gem for gear or a small chance at the Blue Drake mount, which was a rare drop from Malygos 10-man prior to this point. This made The Oculus (Heroic) fairly common for the first few months in roulette. The Oculus (Heroic) also had 5 achievements if you were going for the meta-achievement to get the Red Proto-Drake, 3 of which couldn't all be gotten in the same run and another needed 3 separate runs anyway. Also note that this was specifically the Dungeon Finder. The Raid Finder wasn't implemented until 4.3.0, the last major patch of Cataclysm, well after I stopped playing. I did come back during MoP for a few patch cycles, so I got to experience that for a bit, but dropped it because I was low on money at the time and tired of doing dailies across 3 characters constantly.

[@rudytheshark]

My main complain as a mentor is about sprouts joining extremes EXPECTING mentors to teach them the whole fight and carry/explain everything in details to them. Only a few % of people actually look for a guide before clicking on the duty. Mentors are here to help you of course if you don't understand something, but dont make them write 10 paragraphs of how the towers work. And even if they say okay fine I'll spend some time explaining the full mechanic to each of the sprout, there is a decent chance the sprouts will not listen. This is just frustrating and annoying, as if we are in kindergarten with grown ass people who can't respect other's people's time.

[@somad6997]

the pure distillation of a burger king crown in one comment

[@bb-anon6746]

I mean you're kind of signing up for it when you become a mentor, yeah?

[@viysnjor4811]

How dare people want to learn a game's mechanics within the game and not rely on external resources, how dare they expect mentors, whose entire role it is to help new players, to actually help new players truly scandalous

[@lukeellis2934]

Out of genuine curiosity - what do you think the role of mentor is meant to be then? And why would you become one? Pretty sure that FF14 in game has you have to say yes to you being active in providing gameplay advice, and being an example, to new players to even become one.

[@rudytheshark]

@@lukeellis2934 let's be real, 90% of mentors are doing it for that god damn mount. So many people leave extreme duties because it's not efficient to spend ah hour for receiving nothing. And these people surely are not interested in teaching sprouts the whole fight. The role doesn't make any sense in the game by this point because the game motivates you with a mount, not with mental satisfaction of succeeding with a group of new people. The mount should have never been a reward for it imo. And as for myself, I was teaching people a lot: I had macros for every ARR ex fight, we cleared nidhogg, zurvan, sophia. Not sephiroth tho, that's a torture. I have zero problem teaching good people who are willing to listen, but as I said in the comment, sprouts can be also an issue cuz they refuse to communicate/listen/understand. Even if the content is outdated, it's still considered a hard content. And unlike sastasha, you need to make effort. Problem is on both sides and I absolutely hate it.

[@discountdisco2273]

ARR Raids & Tam Tara Deepcroft live rent-free in my head. Bonus points for Halatali & Sastasha.

[@trevorromein14]

Haven't had the issue of people leaving, but HAVE had an issue or two with bot accounts in Roulettes. Couple days back, we had a Machinist in the Gaius fight that just stood there and auto attacked. Kept dying to mechanics and wasting the Healer's time. ....So the Tank dragged a Tankbuster over them. Based 😂😂😂

[@briancoleman772]

I have seen SO MANY BOTS since DT launched. It's honestly been wild to me.

[@trevorromein14]

hmm......an unusual uptick in bots.....an unusual uptick in peeps leaving duties......coincidence?

[@StormyWitchnado]

😂

[@scarletluna4536]

Love that tank! Best tank I ever had to heal was one that said he had to go to the bathroom before we started a boss fight. He came back REALLY fast so I asked him if he washed his hands and said he needs to wash him. That tank just stopped moving and we all wiped. He comes back and says, "Okay I washed my hands and even bleach wiped my controller!" So worth the wipe for him to do that, I couldn't stop laughing the rest of the run!

[@ShadowyDeathSin]

I maybe a odd case here but I personally feel like if you leave a instance before you "Vote Abaddon" you got from a roulette you forfeit your daily reward (yes that counts to achievement tracks) to help cut some of the people leaving

[@EDarien]

I've not only not seen this increasing since being back this expansion myself. But with all the DDOS attacks happening and people being lagged out or disconnected, I've never had a party fall apart over it. Some players are quiet and just hang out and some make a comment about the DDOS and still continue to hang out so we can all finish it together. I can accept and respect your experience but I have not seen it in the least.

[@doubleagames7457]

Oculus was fine as a dungeon. It got a bad reputation because of the vehicle combat, and a few bosses had mechanics add-ons couldn't track

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah that sounds about right. See the thing is, I liked the dungeon myself, but hardly ever got to do it back then because of people leaving! 😅

[@TheAuron32]

could say the same for Steps of Faith, very different trial (when it was one) but people didnt do what the game was literally TELLING them to do, even post nerf it was not too rare to see a fail.

[@Mephiidross]

@@TheAuron32 God, the og Steps of Faith was probably one of the most enjoyable fights from a spectacle standpoint back then. Having this giant dragon march down while you frantically try to shoot it with towers, prevent the bombs from getting cleared , etc. There always was something you had to do, and it was great. The one flaw that it had was there weren't enough HP checks so you could end up with an unclearable boss because a Dragonkiller missed, but the duty had to run till the end to fail. But aside from that? Great fight.

[@TianaSidhe]

It's such a minor thing, and I'm surprised that I've not said it before. But I love when you go into the video ending and your voice softens. And seeing your character sitting in the Elpis flowers being all ^-^ and chill. It's just so sweet and calming.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you! I'm glad to hear that! 😄😊

[@mkhcfire9684]

I just beat the part of the game where that's from and I never noticed those were Elpis flowers until now!

[@banflavius448]

I’ve been noticing my leveling roulette having more “in progress” pops than normal though could just be me. Does make leveling my tanks much easier though! In terms of me leaving duties, I only really do it if something important happens that would take more time than a couple minutes. However I am also guilty of occasionally leaving crystal tower raids when I notice others leave in hopes to get a more exciting alliance raid lol.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Ha that is a funny reason to leave crystal tower! 😂 "re roll! Can I have something more exciting please?!"

[@brreakfastYT]

I forgot my tank stance in an expert roulette and so the two dps decided to not do any damage and proceeded to just stand there talking trash. Since I was warrior, I could just slowly kill all the ads and first two bosses. Eventually, one started attacking again. It was very frustrating to not be able to leave or kick them out

[@Wayne_Wolf]

Toxic DPS, I main tanks and do DPS as well and sometimes we tanks forgot to turn on our tank stance which is understandable. Some times tank stance doesn't just turn on automatically when you are teleported to the dungeon and required to turn back on again. Thing a DPS can do is just to tell the tank nicely instead of sucking at the back negatively. Ruins everyone playing experience tbh.

[@viysnjor4811]

@@Wayne_Wolf meanwhile when i pull aggro as a DPS I take it as a challenge and actually get to use my DPS mits

[@77SilentAssassin77]

How did you forget tank stance though?

[@YukiA816]

@@77SilentAssassin77it’s easy to forget if it’s always on, so you don’t notice when it drops.

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

Report those players.

[@ghosteeniesmith6219]

I am a mentor and love the unsync option. However, with party finder available, the mentor roulette requirements feel outdated from it's original purpose.

[@zundeesteed]

Just a little bit of fun trivia about the warcraft dungeon Ocules. They added a chance for the blue dragon from the malygos raid to this dungeon entirely as an incentive to get people to not immediately leave it.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I think someone else also mentioned them just adding extra bonus loot for clearing the dungeon in addition to that! Quite wild!

[@Siege225]

NEIR raids i do leave, taking the penalty is way worth it than spending an hour in a raid that we are well over geared for. They are just to long

[@lolthspawn]

I'm leaving more often. The reason being....I'm playing more often! I find myself queuing during peak hours, which is also peak hours for household tomfoolery and tasks to suddenly pop up themselves. I'm glad xiv doesn't have a super punishing leaver system, it's nice to have both a family and an MMO to play

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

See that also makes sense, and sometimes something just comes up! 😊

[@scarletluna4536]

As long as you are not a mentor abandoning sprouts ...

[@Ettanin]

Compromise idea on refill opt-in. Abolish it, but change the mechanics. * If you have yet to complete the duty, you will be guaranteed a fresh instance. * If the queue pops, it should tell whether it is a refill or not. You can choose to defer (and wait longer) for a fresh instance. You get three charges for that and one charge is expended if you defer. If you complete an instance for which you were added as a replacement, you regain one charge. * If the queue pops and it tells it is a refill and you either decline or let it time out, the next queue pop is guaranteed to be a refill unless the wait time exceeded 30 minutes, except in the case that you have yet to complete the duty.

[@lostaname64]

I also noticed that since dawntrail early access, people's mentallity seems to have magically shifted. Leaving duties, but also people PF shopping where they are in a pf party waiting to fill, but leaving because they see a slot open elsewhere in in pf - and not even because a dif party is better or closer to filling!

[@Madoyon.]

I waited for an M1S weekly reclear party to fill for almost 3 hours the other day thanks to people that can't wait 15 more minutes for the last dps slot. Very relatable.

[@scarletluna4536]

@@Madoyon. This is when you document who they are and next time a PF group is up and they try to join, you ban them with the explanation that they have already caused your past PF groups too many problems and that you wish to not run with them because their behavior is GRIEVING (taking up a slot for 15 minutes that someone else could have taken, then leaving to take up another somewhere else to ruin the experiences of others). GMs generally don't want you to kick people from PF but if you have a documented reason they can see in the logs, them reporting you won't go anywhere and in essence, you ruin their ability to keep doing that behavior.

[@ViralC1]

The problem itself comes from the roulette system as a whole. Roulettes are intended to be the daily grind. The content that players queue for every single day where they turn their brain off, run a dungeon they've completed before and get some rewards that enable them to play the part of the game they actually want to experience instead. Roulettes may have a flipside where it's a system that allows newer/less social players the ability to find groups to complete content for the first time, but that's generally not a priority for most of the community. I've never seen someone queue for a normal roul "because i want to go help some sprouts". You queue for the rewards. If i've had a long day at work and just want to do a quick run through my dailies, you can be super certain that I'm leaving if i hit one of those ARR (hard) dungeons where the mechanics are ancient and poorly designed. I don't need that added stress when i can just go make myself some coffee and a snack and queue again 15 minutes later.

[@CaioLRoux]

To answer simply: I rather leave and play something else for 30 minutes than to engage in content that I do not want to do and usually takes 15+ minutes, like Sastasha, and some others ARR dungeons. No point in doing content I find miserable to play.

[@Incensement]

Same. At this point, through either badly thought-out job reworks (missing essential abilities for the job to even function at that level) or the constant low-level ability pruning, the gameplay experience below 80 is often just completely miserable. It has gotten so bad that I would rather do fates in the Dawntrail zones than spend an entire dungeon pressing two buttons, I can easily find something else to do during the 30 minute lockout. And especially when it's something like Ifrit, Titan or Garuda normal in Leveling Roulette. On top of job kits being god awful at those levels it also gives basically no experience besidees the daily bonus, making it feels like a complete waste of my time. The entire leveling experience from at least 1-70 desperately needs an overhaul.

[@scarletluna4536]

Then don't queue mentor roulette or as a mentor. If you do this as a mentor, you can and WILL lose your mentor status once the sprouts learn they can report you for it. And REAL MENTORS like myself will teach them to report you so you are dealt with.

[@RummerChan]

Admittedly, the ONLY time I have ever left a duty in the middle WAS during the starting weeks of DT. And it was due to the slowest tank i've ever experienced in my life. My boyfriend and I were speed running Vanguard for gear pieces we wanted, and unfortunately we already had the tank gear, so i was queue'd dps and he was healing. So we queued in, and got a tank that was not only single pulling every pack, but also waiting before every pack for around 30 seconds to a minute to assess the situation. It was VERY odd, considering most tanks have a pretty good handle on things by the upper levels, but this person was just... I'm not even sure... seemed like it was either a young kid playing on their parents' account, or the person was just horribly distracted somehow. It wasn't his first time there, because he already had 2 pieces of gear from the dungeon. That being said, at the point of going in there we figured we had time for 2 more runs before we had to leave, but that group quickly turned into 'we dont even have time to finish this run'. After the tank died multiple times on the second boss due to just not moving at all like his feet were glued to the floor, and causing wipes, we had to leave. It's still one of the strangest things i've experienced in queueing for dungeons in xiv.

[@TheValiantBob]

Only thing I can think of is that maybe the tank was popping all of their mits every single pull and was waiting for them to come off cooldown before the next pack. Which if that was the case, dear lord that must have been excruciatingly painful x_x

[@scarletluna4536]

There was this one run I had, healer was just REALLY WEIRD. The healer never spoke but we all noticed that the healer had a pattern. It always ran down the middle of the path and it always waited until my health (I was tanking) to drop to a very specific point before it would even try to heal. it felt like it was a BOT. So when we got to the first boss, we just STOPPED and waited because we wanted some answers from this healer. After less then a minute, the healer went in attacking the boss and healing itself as it's HPs dropped to a certain thresh hold. It didn't last long, but we let it happen because we really wanted to see. It would use the same set of attacks (spammed holy for the run up to the boss even if we only had one mob and spamming glare for the boss fight, switching to heals when it took damage below the 35% mark. We ended up kicking the player and reporting them so the GMs could look into them because to this day, every action it made convinced all three of us it was a BOT. In almost 3 years I have only seen this once and never again, will never forget it!

[@77SilentAssassin77]

​@@scarletluna4536 I really hate the fact that bots exist in mmos. The game is a live service game which means we have to pay to play, and the boss will further mess it up and make it more difficult for everybody else.

[@Sunari]

@@scarletluna4536had something like this but worse as they only had swift and res programmed, maybe some self healing but it was ridiculous. They wouldn’t heal the tank and if a dps died we wouldn’t get res’d at all. And this was in Brayflox Longstop so it felt particularly painful to be in because we were all above 90 and then to have a shitty non-healing bot on top of it…They did reply eventually but they weren’t answering the other DPS’s main question if they were okay or needed a moment, just addressed them getting the healer’s level wrong. Was done with it then so vote kicked.

[@LarkyLuna]

I've never had anyone leave my roulettes in DT until now I got an aurum vale and the tank (not a sprout) decided to pull through center and died healer left The whole thing took 20some minutes of agonizing progress, so it was less than the penalty + dps queues

[@SageTigerStar]

People who mess around in Aurum Vale find out why it's got a stigma, and that stigma is usually why people bail on it. The dungeon is actually pretty easy, but I can only say that because I don't mess around in it.

[@TheAuron32]

why people still try wall-to-wall in that place is beyond me, its the one dungeon you CAN NOT DO THAT in.

[@scarletluna4536]

As a healer main, I would have laughed and gone with it ... I don't care about sprout status or not ... if someone wants to do something crazy then I just go with it for the laughs. I get tired of the same mundane thing ... everyone doing the duty the exact same way. So that tank spiced things up, I would have loved that!

[@TaeoXIV]

I've only left a duty Once. In my entire time playing.... Dosis sage.... No Kardia. Was not looking at chat until a few wipes due to me running out of mit. then they cussed me out for being a crappy tank and told me to play my own job and not micro manage theirs. Wasn't dealing with that for another 30 mins honestly. I just did fates while waiting for my penalty to run out lol

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yikes... Personally I feel the more justified solution would be booting the sage 😰 They were effectively not participating in clearing the duty, and also being mean to you 🤔

[@TaeoXIV]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Honestly It didn't even cross my mind until an hour later and I face palmed very hard irl when I remembered vote kicking was a solution to that problem. I think I just wanted out of that situation asap because it was just upsetting overall and my brain short circuited.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

@TaeoXIV totally understandable. I've also left due to a particularly toxic player in the past, it is the easier solution in the moment. But even if you do leave, remember that you could also report them if they are toxic enough 🤔

[@thesunthrone]

Did they also claim to play since 1.0? Had a Dosis sage like that in a group as I was tanking, and it was funny that it was the DPS that started to have a problem with them because they mained sage outside the roulette and were getting annoyed at not seeing a single Eukrasian shield applied, when it's literally the easiest thing to do with sage due to them being an instant cast. It was extra funny when this sage died to the last boss and me on DRK and two dps had to chew the boss down while the Dosis sage was ranting in the chat.

[@YukiA816]

Think I ran into that same sage. Lvl 100 used no kardia or shields at all. Nothing bothers me more than another healer just doing nothing at all. Raider mentality is next up when people expect healers to only focus dps and heal last second. That’s how people die in dungeons.

[@thomasnguyen4427]

I had a lot of fun joining what was once a hopeless run for a group of sprouts. Replacing the offending culprit with my actual interest in playing the game’s systems & mechanics meant any gaps from the lack of knowledge on the other 3 wouldn’t cause them to fail when the 4th culprit reveals their trollish griefing. Especially that one time, where upon me inquiring further, the group I joined-in-progress were a premade stack of legit WoW refugees, around the shadowlands backlash, and I made a joke about saving them from Azeroth’s version of hell since I was lurking around the meme factory churning stuff out.

[@TheSrSalvatore-]

Good video and I've noticed the same thing, I'm a main healer in which I've been playing healer for 8 months straight (SCH) and I also noticed that since the last expansion I've had many cases of replacement in the duty finder, mostly in raids. Whenever I enter a replacement duty I get curious to ask "why did the previous healer leave?" and most of them don't answer me or they answer that they left for no reason, very few cases they told me that the healer commented that it wasn't the raid he expected. I hope there is a new option where I can only find a group only as a replacement, most of the time those are the most fun and challenging.

[@BanditTheThief09]

I didn't expect to come out of this video with the knowledge you can open the duty menu to see portraits again. But i welcome the additional knowledge.

[@stok5445]

The only times I leave is: 1. I roll Seat of Sacrifice. I have a physical issue with my hands, and because I play on PS5, the extra hard active time maneuver causes me real physical pain. 2. I've had the same duty 5+ times in a row. 3. Something very pressing comes up irl

[@thejaguar3191]

This is a very interesting topic! Here's two potential solutions I thought of while watching the video that are my ideas on how the devs could improve things: 1) Make it so that refills are "queued" until all spots are accounted for. So for example if there are three empty slots in a duty, the duty finder would wait until it has found three people with the fill option enabled, then send them all in at the same time. This is something that WoW does, and it eliminates the possibility of somebody joining into a half-empty party and deciding to bail immediately because they don't want to wait for the rest of the party to fill. 2) Maybe make it the fill option something you opt-out of, rather than opt-in? This would make it so that more people would participate in the fill feature since it would be the default, yet the toggle would still be there anytime someone deliberately wants to run a duty all the way through from the start. I would also make it so that the opt-out would automatically enable any time someone queues for a duty they've never done before, preventing the possibility of those who don't know about the toggle getting thrown halfway into a duty they've never done and ruining the experience because they didn't get to experience the duty from the beginning (This has happened to me in WoW before and it sucks).

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

The batch replacement is a good idea 😊 I do wonder if this would cause problems though since sometimes an extreme requires 4-5 replacements, and due to the wideness of mentor roulette, you'd be whisked away to a different duty long before it finds enough people to replace with in a batch 🤔 Others also agreed that just in general players are more likely to stick with whatever default is, so making it opt out instead might help a lot!

[@tituslupus5454]

There's a few circumstances that might be contributing. There's a loooooot of more efficient ways to level as you get further in the game. FATEs in DT do a lot, to say nothing of the Shared Fate system from as far back as Shadowbringers. Meaning people that are using dungeons might just plain not care about the penalty since they could just FATE farm and do some of the numerous sidequests that are now level-synced and grant good EXP so long as that class is in the expansions level range. Lots of people that have been playing a long time are more likely to be sick of earlier content, even if that earlier content isn't necessarily bad. You touched on this one as well. Also, lots of more recent classes from around Shadowbringers, but especially Endwalker and onward, have some reeeeeeally jank kits in content before Stormblood. I'm not the only one who was leveling VRP or RPR, got Sohm Al, and went, "Uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh..." People really want to try out some of the newer classes, and they're effectively told they don't get to actually play those classes whenever they get synced down. Unfortunately, besides the last option which would just be a bit of a class rework and retooled progression, FF14 has kind of shot itself in the foot. There's no way to make a punishment for excessive abandonment too extreme without just making players quit the game entirely nor can they just remove some of those incentives to engage with other content without severely hurting player engagement in their other systems within the game. Adding more incentives or some kind of "super dungeon EXP bonus" will either just shift the problem elsewhere or counter-productively encourage leaving further. Worst I can say is maybe push the punishment for leaving to an hour? Make it apply for the first two people? Neither of those are great though and I know I wouldn't want it if my fire alarm went off only for me to basically sit for 45 minutes in [insert city of choice here] just for stuff I can't control.

[@Renji510]

I only leave CT or aglaia if i get those in alliance roulette. Tired of running the same stuff in it every time.

[@afrotreebear4907]

I think out of the 20 times I've had someone disconnect, the group always asks if they want to keep going only if it's a Tank or Healer, if a dps leaves, litteraly no one cares.

[@CharTangTheBeardedGamer]

I love the "join in progress" option just within the past week I joined a dungeon 32 minutes in as tank and it turned out to be the final msq dungeon at the first boss healers first time, wiped 2 more times explained the mechs and the rest of the dungeon went smoothly and no more wipes, another time I joined an AR in progress turned out to be world of darkness just as the cloud of darkness died, quickest AR roulette ever easy xp 😆 I'll never turn that feature off. I think vote abandon should be available from the start and everyone has to agree until certain times have passed and the requirement drops (ie. After 10 minutes 3/6 and after 30mins 2/4) or something like that.

[@dacomputernerd4096]

I queued up for a roulette the other day. Got Ala Mhigo. Everyone else left. Another person joined and left before we got a light party again

[@BitzFox]

6:21 So I can tell you almost 100% for sure that you are right. I study Psychology, and one of the effects we have been able to show is that the default option has a significant effect on what will be chosen. For instance, in areas that have Organ Donation on by default, the number of Organ Doners is significantly higher. And, when places changed from that being *non*standard, to it being the default drivers liscense setting, iltheir rates became similar to those that had it on by default. So yeah; the default has a HUGE advantage, and that's even if the option is specifically made visible to people.

[@Poldovico]

Even applies to character choice in video games if what I've heard is right. People just mash through menus without reading.

[@SheonEver]

This was so bad in DC Universe Online, any wipe there was a solid 50% chance someone left. One time a friend and I were trying to power through a moderately hard raid, 8-person, and by the time we had cleared it there were 19 names on the final score card..

[@n10zguy]

i rarely leave an instance, but the other day I ended up in the level 69 dungeon for leveling rolo and the tank grabbed the first 3 enemies and stayed there. Ordinarily I am tolerant of a tank who only single pulls as I understand that, using the duty finder, you’re going to be placed with people of different skill levels, but when those enemies died they just stood there for a little bit and then proceeded to RP WALK to the next group of enemies. I was like “nope, bye”, then logged to an alt to level that.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yikes 😂 I dunno I feel like that could be grounds to kick them, but then again, that would require the group to agree and I think there is a timer before you could do that 🤔 Rp walking 😂

[@GilPlays]

i've had that a few times! rp walking tanks have become more common

[@JayAshkevron]

I totally agree thats frustrating. As a healer main I am ok with working with Tanks of all different skills and levels of skill. But thats just disrespectful of others time. On the other hand I also hate those tanks that pop in, immediately pop rampart and sprint and pull every mob they can wall to wall without saying a word. Like...bro I'm good with this but not every one is, and maybe a heads up would be nice.

[@InnocentGuillotine]

Pretty sure that counts as griefing honestly, you have to actively turn on rpwalk Like the tank in qarn who, despite multiple reminders, kept turning off their damn stance and leaving me to get chewed on when I wasn't even pulling ahead and was trying to respect their pace.

[@TheFlyinSquid]

I used to never leave duties before DT came out. But now with a huge exp difference in alliance raids with the commonly run myths of the realm series *and* some of the alliance raids already being tedious im more incentivized to leave when I get a stinker. It helps that even if nobody replaces me a dps or two going missing in alliance raids isnt really noticeable

[@Bobuliss]

I can definitely relate to someone leaving Deadwalk. That first boss is miserable.

[@MegaDarkness5000]

It's been figured out, when the chasers make their first pass the furthest will go after you. When they make the second pass the ones behind you will target you.

[@Wishmaster787]

I forgot to do it on launch but did it first time today and was fairly easy, mind you I went in with item level of 715.

[@boat02]

The only time I've left is my brain autopiloted the wrong action. I meant to respawn after the first boss of a dungeon when I was dead. I pressed U on my keyboard instead and yeah brain autopilot...

[@Jaridavin]

I want to bring up WoW's issue that resulted in needing kicked players to get penalized, because I'm going to admit to being a problem here. When I get stuck with a problem group, the obvious answer is to generally leave. You obviously do not want to be there, so why not? I have a very stupid brain though, and receiving my 30 minute penalty because I got stuck with as I'd describe it "3 dingbats who can't be asked to participate at all" feels... odd. They're the ones being a problem and demanding that I carry them, why should I be the one punished for not wanting to deal with it? So, what happens? What do I do? I urge to get kicked. I don't ask for it, I don't need an easy report under my name for a suspension, but I end up deciding that if everyone else wants to be a problem, I can simply fit into it. We have someone who only auto's? Cool, I can do that. Stands in literally everything? Damn we're swimming together. Hold on the alien invasion started, oh crap tripped on my plug. Is it toxic? Yes. Absolutely. I'm not saying these as a justification. But I'm saying it because that's exactly what happened on WoW's end and I'm surprised Square hasn't built that into it yet because of it. If someone is like me, and they view the penalty as a punishment for taking the correct option where being an annoying pest will get you to avoid punishment, why would I not avoid said punishment? Additional fun fact BTW, Blizzard still (at one point at least) had a horrible implementation of its kick system. They did eventually make it so you would get penalized for being kicked, but what i discovered eventually was Blizzard added a pity system. Specifically, if you were kicked enough times, the game would outright REFUSE to let anyone kick you out. We had an afk autofollow player in Stratholme for a dungeon queue. At first I thought it was a refer a friend follow thing, someone using the slot for their alt account and getting tons of exp, but the party denied ownership. But none of us could kick, because they were under protection. And so the party was left with two options, eat 30 minute penalties on our end to not carry the afk, or give them what they want. I think the problem really is... there's no real solution. Anything can be abused by one end or the other to get what they want out of it. And at least with FFXIV's current system, I guess it's trying to avoid as much hostage situation as it can (even if it struggles to sometimes).

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I actually think "Let's all be terrible" is a hilarious solution, if, for nothing else, at least for the comedy involved if you are stuck in a terrible group! xD I would be surprised if it regularly got you kicked, especially if you are "bad next to someone else being bad"! ^^ Also, that pity system does ring a bell, and is probably the dumbest idea in WoW! Someone consistently is toxic or trolling? Eventually they build up this pity and now you are stuck with them! Indeed, there is no good solution, and personally, my perspective is usually that the best solution is to do something that makes players want to stay, but at this point, I don't think there is much that can be done if someone just does not want to do Crystal Tower for the 300th time (which is fair).

[@Jaridavin]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh It actually usually does get me kicked. They tend to expect me to carry them through, and when they see I'm not compliant with this idea, they tend to get uppity. One that did work in my favor by the end though was an old Prae run. My co tank decided to afk right from the start, and when I asked the party to kick, they refused, saying that it's just prae, this is fine and normal. I decided to type /return and get back to the instance start, and sit right next to our good little afk buddy. Suddenly, with both tanks afk (despite being prae who needs a tank), the entire party was suddenly angry with ME in particular. Why me? Because we had 1 tank, now both won't play. I got incredibly lucky when I said "You can kick me and have 1 tank, or kick them and have two, your choice" putting some kind of sense into them, but it's still a classic example case of "Others can do it, but I can't" given how mad they were when I... literally just did what others were doing and they said was okay.

[@mooncandy108]

i once had a mentor quit out after one failed attempt at my first time Zodiark (the basic MSQ trial, of all things). we immediately beat it second try, once everyone else remembered/grasped the spinny floor mechanic, so i guess it was their loss

[@veylaron]

This topic also is interesting to me. I usually never leave duties, unless something happends that needs my urgent attention IRL.. or if things are going horribly after multiple attempts / people don't want to to try continuing. Also, I do kinda wish joining a party in progress wasn't opt-in personally, because I do forget toggling it on most of the time despite not minding filling in.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

A tip there is that join party in progress stays toggled on between sessions! So if you just leave it on, you should be good! Although I do understand why you'd sometimes not want to have it on 😅

[@madkitten5]

I think you have to turn it off for unsynced and then remember to turn it on when turning off all the unsync settings. I know I forgot it sometimes while I was working on HW relics.

[@nisc2001]

@@madkitten5 if you're doing solo content unsynced you can leave it on. when i run old EX triails for wonderous tails i just tick the unsync button on then off and don't touch my opt in to party fill button

[@scarletluna4536]

You can toggle it once and forget it, it stays on. Mine has been set on for over 2 years now.

[@HighwindFury]

I'm pretty sure join party in progress used to be turned on by default, but I could be wrong, there never used to be any issues getting randoms from duty finder when you chose to replace missing party members, but that was like stormblood or earlier, one day I logged in and it was turned off (it's possible this was after reinstalling), and I just never turned it back on because I figured, if it's not on by default then nobody has it turned on anyway

[@CeliLarsonient]

I think it's a combination of three things, in no real particular order. 1. Endwalker was really, really fucking easy to just carry people though. 2. Steady power creep on lower levels has brought older content to a similar difficulty level to Endwalker through the power of just killing things before the hard bits happen. 3. Dawntrail went back to a normal level of difficulty and people who started in Endwalker have yet to adjust. As for how to deal with it, well, I don't think there's any perfect solution to this problem as you're always gonna have those people that'll just eat the penalty. To get close to fixing the problem, I think we could implement WoW's system almost exactly. The thing I'd change is that only certain roulettes force you to queue in progress. Likely things like Main Scenario, Mentor, Expert, things where the main reward comes from just finishing the content. This is as opposed to Leveling where, if you get something on level, you'd be missing a lot of the main reward (Exp) by skipping a boss or two. Honestly, I think the best part of WoW's system is the mandatory cooldown you get handed just by going in. That has undoubtedly kept people in content they would've left otherwise. But that's only as far as the systems are concerned. I *also* think that we as players, or at the very least mentors, should just... get used to doing hard content in DF. It sounds fun as hell, it's not impossible because JP does it through standardized strats, there are many players that can't make PFs because they're on the free trial, and no matter how much we say otherwise, there will always be people who want to just queue for Extremes and above so you're gonna have those moments where you get an Extreme in your Mentor Roulette. And, tbh, Extremes don't really take enough coordination to warrant only doing them in PF, imo. As long as you *pay attention* and follow the common strat, you'll usually be fine. I promise. :D

[@CeliLarsonient]

Sorry for the giant text wall. I apparently feel more strongly about this topic then I thought when I started typing. XD

[@captainsavvy07]

You've obviously never experienced the kinds of PF extreme parties I have then 😅 If it was only people who had already cleared the content queuing then sure, but I have been in practice/duty completion PF parties that have run out the entire clock multiple times and not succeeded, and the majority of people queueing extremes in DF are likely to be people that haven't done it yet and have also probably not even looked at a guide. I know I run the risk of a single mentor roulette taking over 90 minutes of my time every time I queue in and that's just the mentor life, but I'd rather not encourage people to increase those odds when PF is quite frankly the far better option with better chance of success 😂 It can be hard enough to clear an extreme in PF with a group of people that have chosen to be there, let alone a random group of people being jump scared by a random extreme they had no idea they were going to get and could very well not even remember. I even forgot most of the EW extremes when I recently went back to farm the mounts and that's only been a single expansion 😰

[@CeliLarsonient]

@@captainsavvy07 I mean, that's part of what I was talking about when I say people need to pay attention. I've run into too dang many people who want to get carried to a clear, even though Extremes are hard enough that you can't really do that. I guess I'm essentially telling people to "git gud"/just put in the amount of effort the game is asking you to. :P

[@ralphbeez1411]

The issue with your statement is that DF parties in Japan do not work like overseas US/EU do. In JP you are *expected* to already know how to clear the Extreme you are queueing up for, as people will regularly make PF parties that are labelled as "practice/learning" for stages of the fight and people who free trial will join or get a mentor to start a group up for them. If you are like US/EU where sprouts will go into DF Extremes blindly multiple times, you (as a sprout) will get put into an actual online blacklist so that EVERYONE on the server can see to drop immediately if your name pops up in duties. (A silent public shaming, if you will)

[@CeliLarsonient]

@@ralphbeez1411 Fair point. Definitely wish I knew that when I made the comment. I do still wish that people were more willing to just jump into DF and learn shit though, so I guess my comment applies to everywhere in the end.

[@AlexLaw-y9j]

I only leave if im playing my BLM (If im playing PLD I just need one of the DPS to help I can do the rest) the group is trash and wipes on the same fight 3 times and I also have something else I can do while waiting out the insane lockout timer. I would really get rid of that lockout timer if it was me. No one is going to volintairly leave a dungeon or raid that is 75% done unless the group keeps wiping. In which case it's a bad tank most of the time.

[@thebrave9971]

I turned "Join party in progress" in DawnTrail, and have had a scary amount of times where I filled in... For Castrum Meridianum far more often than other places, for some reason, otherwise, people leave in Crystal Tower raids a lot, but that's normal since EW

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah indeed, crystal tower is still sort of a problem at least! 😅 It is strange when you replace in msq roulette and you land like 20 minutes in! 😂

[@thebrave9971]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I wish it was 30 minutes in, I usually replace when the time in the dungeon hasn't even reached 10 seconds in Castrum

[@Puddingskin01]

I see those and go "Sweet, break time!"

[@viysnjor4811]

wait you can die in castrum meridianum?

[@InnocentGuillotine]

@@viysnjor4811it's mostly people bailing, which is weird bc it's the least obnoxious of the msq roulettes; it's only a bit less exp than prae, has less stop-and-go than prae, and is just as mindless as the rest of msq roulette. The actual worst duty in msq roulette is Ultima weapon, since it has bad payout, is the most boring to play, and is still not the actual shortest duty.

[@Prince_Echo]

i've only left a handful of times and it was always because because when i was finishing an dungeon and had to immediately do the next MSQ trial, the game didn't unqueue me for the dungeon (despite doing it for only the msq and would undoubtedly not want to do it again and there be no option to clear it from the checklist after completing) when queueing for the trial and got put into the dungeon and didnt have time to do the whole dungeon.

[@yuehonda]

I have never left a duty and I do have the join party in progress option on. While I'm not a mentor I have joined some very rough duties, like a stone vigil run where the healer and tank were basically screaming at each other when I showed up it was like two parents that needed a divorce and therapy but we made it to the end and I ended up with all the coms and my only guess as to why is because I was quiet, I've been in wod and been the last man standing in my alliance because everyone in my alliance left it refilled but it was somethin. I don't blame people for leaving some duties, it does get annoying but there's nothing I can do about it. lota and wod almost always have leavers, as for dungeons it seems random on why people will leave some just really don't like the lower level dungeons. Recently I was an instant replacement for copperbell mines, the sprout gladiator said when they got out of the cs everyone was gone. I felt so bad for them and since we then had 2 dps they asked if they should try to do some pulls and we said yeah so we went for it. We got past the first boss and halfway to the second before a healer joined and luckily stayed. The dungeon still didn't take that long and it just seems so weird to me to leave, nothing went wrong. I still think I wont leave duties till a vote abandon is called because at that point its obvious people don't want to keep trying so its best to not force it but I doubt I'll ever just dip no matter how much I hate a duty.

[@scarletluna4536]

Have you ever considered becoming a mentor because your attitude would make you a better mentor then most of the mentors out there. You do the right thing even if you don't want do and you didn't abandon that sprout. You should consider it, mentorship is rewarding as you probably felt when you completed that dungeon with that sprout.

[@yuehonda]

@scarletluna4536 Thank you for the kind words! I contemplate it often, I always love the feeling of getting sprouts through a duty that they're struggling with and seeing them excited after all the struggle, I join random farm parties even when I don't need anything for the same reason. But I think what holds me back is the fear of being criticized for being a mentor, a lot of people seem to think mentors have to be perfect and dying to mechs is forbidden lol. But I'm about 300 coms away and maybe when I reach the number needed I'll give it a shot, I certainly wont farm coms I enjoy getting them naturally. But perhaps in the near future I'll take up the crown! Sarg needs more mentors who don't just dip at the first sign of a low level duty

[@scarletluna4536]

@@yuehonda We are mentors, we are not perfect. We are still human and can only do the best we can with the best of intentions. Most people understand this. The important thing is to just have the best intentions. If you do, they see past mistakes. Heck, I still forget Tank Stance and heal myself instead of the tank. When I screw up like this, I make a joke about it and say, "Even us mentors still make these mistakes so don't ever feel bad about messing up yourself!"

[@RacoonHand]

I’ve left / asked to be kicked for irl things (I am a parent sometimes you can’t avoid it) but I always take the few seconds to apologise and explain and everyone has always been nice about it.

[@plattbagarn]

I left a Dead Ends where the party decided to do every single mechanic on the first boss wrong. It started with both the dps single targeting the two trash packs, so it had taken almost 10 minutes just to get there. Then 2 of them stood on the "wrong" side of the exaflare clouds, which you can do if you know how to dodge them. Then the one guy who was in the safe lane decides to just walk into them. My brain being frozen from the sheer stupidity of what I was seeing didn't esuna all of them in time, so one guy goes down. I res him and everybody spreads out for the dorito markers, despite me rescuing one of them. Everyone gets feared and hit by the following AoE, the guy who got ressed didn't have full HP yet so he just dies to damage. Second exaflare clouds, 2 guys stand in Narnia and just die to exaflare damage, not even the doom. Targeted puddles, another guy goes down. More doritos, one guy doesn't stack, so he dies. I'm dying internally. The reaper (guy who had died 4 times at this point) stops doing anything, before dropping a wall of text explaining every mechanic the boss does, like he just copy pasted out of a guide somewhere. After a fight that I wouldn't blame anyone if they got scared out of healing, the warrior (who hadn't used a single bloodwhetting the entire dungeon) drops "gj team". I don't care if it was sarcastic or not, I wasn't gonna deal with that for the rest of the dungeon.

[@TheAuron32]

yeah, that dungeon always fills me with dread and fear, it is a rough one, its not THAT hard to figure it out... i do blame SE a bit though, house of novice is not mandatory and doesnt teach a lot really, needs an update that teaches more common mechanics like Stack and AoE markers and NOT to stack WITH an AoE one etc.

[@scarletluna4536]

Reminds me of two weeks ago, doing M1 Savage. The tank got the tank buster so my healer ass was running hard to get away from him as he chased me down. It wasn't like we both ran in the same direction, he literally followed me and I even tried to zig and zag. I was on White Mage because if I was on my sage, I would have escaped. He started out far away from everyone else at the north end, I tend to be on the east or west end to see things better in most duties, but that one in particular as a healer your mark is always east or west of center. I was assigned to west, he eventually chased me down to SW after we both went to south first.

[@alexdelarge2095]

I bet you 50 bucks that they had the "F" in their language settings.

[@UltraCasualPenguin]

What also happens is that player leaves instance but doesn't leave group. So, rest are forced to kick them. And they get no penalty. They wasted a bit of time but wasted even more of others' time.

[@bl9048]

1st, great vid. I'm on Zalera server, and actually rarely see anyone leave duties... BUT i also find since DT i use the duty finder significantly less, so maybe that could be a reason too. However, I ALWAYS leave a Nier raid if it pops. I do not find it fun, interesting, or exciting to participate in. If there was an option to block it, I would. I do not feel bad at all for leaving either, so haters - keep hating!!

[@invenblocker]

There are two main reasons why sprouts might find themselves queuing high end content in DF, both of which I'll chalk up to poor communication on the game's end. 1. The reality of what extreme content is has not hit them yet. They might have experienced the normal version of the trial being of easy to medium difficulty, and expect extreme to just be a small step up, where they're more likely too stumble, but could still realistically beat the content in a matched party. 2. ARR extreme trials, some of the HW extreme trials, as well as the Binding Coil of Bahamut are tied to blue quests that don't clear before the content is cleared. This communicates to the players that they are indeed expected to be able to handle it in the same way they've done previous content, thus misleading them to use DF. It also clogs the journal until they've done the content, which in turn acts as an incentive to try and clear with the means available to them. Later in HW, they introduced the standard of either the quest ending with you unlocking the duty, or there not even being a quest at all, which communicates far less expectation that the player actually does beat it. Binding Coil is arguably even worse in this regard, given the considerable story content locked behind that raid series. I remember being a newcomer commenting on how long of a queue time I was getting despite waiting for all five raids at once before being told that's because no one does those in DF. Random side note, I actually did clear Urth's Fount (which isn't really high end, but you know, close enough to be exempt from Trial Roulette) blind through DF because I just queued expecting a normal trial.

[@Faythe1981]

I absolutely adore Caetsu using the /fume emote. It's adorable. Also, thank you so much for the family friendly content. Regarding the duty refill I have been fortunate enough to not see this happen very often. I actually do not see very many people leave right away much anymore. There are a few exceptions though such as World of Darkness and any of the Nier raids. Although I do not see people leaving very often I am not ignorant to the fact it does happen to other people more so than others.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Thank you so much! 😄

[@Phoenix87401]

Only time I really see people leaving is if its CT via alliance roulette. But I think with many of us are sick of it thanks to cheesers prior to DT.

[@LlamaFIL]

I notice a lot of immediate leavers in raids and trials rather than dungeons but ive found most of the dungeon backfilling I've done recently has been very early in the duty so it must be happening more often

[@linhilde]

The one time I've clicked "Leave" a Duty was a group of three Mentors (1 Battle, 2 Crown) who wiped on 1st boss of Qarn twice. I told them about plates in English with no response. I tried Spanish, a common language in my DC, but no luck. I speak multiple languages, so I tried German, Japanese, Chinese, and my basic-level French, but, again, no luck. After 2nd wipe, I read, "Don't spam," from the Healer with a "uwu teehee lemme revive nya, oopsy-woopsy you died" macro going off 3-5 times per un-swifted Raise. 3rd try, they didn't explode, but 2nd boss, I saw no damage on core, so I bailed. The only reasons I'd ever leave a Duty and incur the penalty is for my sanity.

[@ThePoshPanda]

Extremes really shouldn't be in mentor roulette. Extreme+ content is the perfect time for the game to teach you to properly use Party Finder.

[@TheKeyblader133]

The issue with this, as Cae has mentioned before, is that Free Trial players cannot use the party finder. So queuing might be their only option

[@apljack]

EX potential is WHY I do mentor roulette. Those are the ones I WANT to pop when I go into it. I wish we would normalize EX on DF more. It's fun, even when I have to learn it on the fly.

[@beambreaker300]

My assumption is that more people are now aware of the penalty only applying to the first person, thus making more people leave as soon as they see the window to do so open. Especially with the added perception of the average player performing worse now than they used to in stormblood (aka the "shadowbringers and endwalker made content too easy, casuals struggle even with the easiest mechanics nowadays" mentality)

[@kalandarkclaw8892]

No what it is meta players want to speed run everything. They all have the "gotta go fast" mentality and often times get themselves killed and slow the whole process gets slown down I have people cuss me out because I don't sprint and healers that will pull everything get killed and then everyone dies. I'm sick of it and I'm just handing out reports for PKing and nuisance players. End of story. Been playing this game for 10 years and I'm gonna gonna let's some stupid meta player make me rush through shit.

[@Shingeki__]

I don't ever see anyone leave. However if they do or I do it's because the Duty feels like it will never end because someone (Tank or Healer) is not learning. I had a Tank in one that wouldn't tank and kept activating the LB when we NEEDED to save it for the 2nd phase. We told him multiple times in chat but for some reason he either didn't see it or didn't care? I'm much more likely to just vote to kick though, but sometimes people will just...suffer? I'm all for learning experiences! I die every other day in a duty. It happens. But I'm also not spending 2hrs in a daily duty lol I'll add in I'm a returning player. The main reason I left is because others did (this only happened once) so I thought it was some weird SE thing where voting to kick was bad or something? After learning it's not and is fully justified after 4 wipes, I would just try that and if it failed, then leave. But you gotta be playing reallllly bad for me to do that.

[@NotTheWheel]

I have a friend who has been leaving alliance raids she doesn't like a lot recently. And to be honest I REALLY frown upon this specially since she has Mentor Status. Like if you leave so many times wait for the timer to reset leave again that should start to negatively impact you in some way.

[@Forginswagger]

like if you leave too many consecutive times as a mentor you are penalized and are required to wait a certain amount of days before you could rejoin, or are required to re-clear that duty you left synced. as exsample. But it’s sad some one with mentor status won’t try to stick things through and if not give tips, and least be a helpful body.

[@scarletluna4536]

She could lose her mentorship if reported and SHOULD lose it because she isn't acting like a mentor. She is acting like a spoiled little brat who only cares about what she wants. Tell that little girl if she wants to see a real woman as a mentor, I can kick that attitude right out of her for you.

[@BraunBuxe]

The worst I had was someone whos internet went down right before the first boss but he was back for the final boss

[@barrowsarrow6761]

Internet “went down”… sure 😂

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Oh yeah that sounds mighty convenient! 😅 It is hard to prove whether they were truthful or not, but I recall this happening surprisingly often in delubrum Reginae, because you can't kick players there 🤔

[@tenkaka11]

Nice informative video, however there is a point I would like to bring up and an idea of sorts to potential counter. So the point I wanted to mention is that there can and will be differences of opinion or ideas within groups from time to time, but then you get these absolute vermin of players that basically become super aggressive with you and can (and have in my previous experiences) use any form of extreme discrimination against you to the point where you just have to leave, or you risk getting a ban for the things you wanna say. An idea I had is that some people do tend to go offline, a "fake DC" if you will, in order to get a kick an bypass the penalty. I would say to counter that is if said player hasn't come back online within 5-10 mins, they automaticlly get removed like they would if they just afk'd in the dungeon, however for the duration of them being offline they CANNOT be vote kicked, so then to discourage such things. Yes it's not perfect, and I know there would be a genuine situation for if someone genuinely went offline because of loss of power or whatever, but at that point, I think losses can be cut. I think the ARR Extreme trials need to follow suit with the expac ones and be unlocked via the Minstrel, and they should lock all extremes out of queueing. It does cause problems when a sprout has a blue quest thats like "queue for so and so extreme", and you have some players who want to do every quest (which they are more than entitled to do), but there needs to be some sort of balance.

[@OkamiAurora]

I frequently leave certain duties. Stone Vigil (Hard) is a good example. I have gotten stuck in this duty more times than I've cleared it as a mentor. Every time a sprout doesn't do the second boss correctly and it keeps me in there for over an hour at times. Taking the 30 minutes is less of a penalty than ramming my head into a wall then leaving. Same with EXs and generally harder duties for sprouts. I know mentors are supposed to help and all that, but no spout I have met has wanted the help. The most they do is insult me for having my crown or for things I'm not even doing (So many say I don't use arm's length I made an annoying macro to let people know when I use it). It's exhausting to do these duties, and with all of the new players it's a constant thing. I can't speak for Syrcus Tower leavers but I have been dying a lot more to bosses due to the amount of new and returning players while raids like the lvl 90 ones give more xp to those leveling and I'm also less likely to die to a wipe. This is just my experience and take on it tho.

[@scarletluna4536]

That is funny because ARM's LENGTH isn't even on my hotbars. I don't use it at all ... don't need it. It is an ability to escape doing the actual mechanic. Never had anyone complain to me about not using it but if they did, I would just remind them that if they actually KNEW what they were doing, they wouldn't need it. I never had to deal with bad sprouts. Most sprouts are very eager to learn and there are some I have encountered that don't speak and were a challenge, but worst case scenario is that we would warn them that we would kick them if they didn't make an effort to communicate with us in some way and help the other sprouts progress if they were constantly doing the same mechanic wrong over and over causing wipes. The crown means nothing, but the mentor status itself is important because we all agreed to be mentors to sprouts, even the hard headed ones. Leaving because some are bad is still wrong because the good ones in there suffer too from it.

[@ocruz9797]

Arms length for u might be to skip a mech. But for us tanks/melee that want to do the most damage, it is useful for uptime. Especially if a gap closer is not available atm. Also useful for tanks to use on a pull for mitigation

[@OkamiAurora]

@@scarletluna4536 I am a tank main. Arm's Length IS a really good mit for us. Can't speak for dps because I find dps boring and don't play unless I have to.

[@AmethystHadalOracle]

I had one person scoop during m2 and everyone else scoop as well so I was left with my honor code and explaining to 7 op in players what happened. We pulled it off

[@linkaiser8709]

I'd say it's just players moving out of the honestly toxic positivity that XIV has had for the past 5 years where you MUST be nice and and just look the other way or so and many are no longer willing to put their time and effort into doing duties with players who are remarkably unaware of how the enemies and/or their own jobs play. For apparently quite a good number of people there having aa penalty and being unable to do another duty for 30 minutes is a better option than having a miserable experience in a duty.

[@Electric0eye]

The toxic positivity doesn't get talked about as much I think you're right. Generally, I think there should be a good middle ground.

[@Wishmaster787]

Join an Endwalker unsynced mount farm and you'll get a WOW experience if you mess up.

[@linkaiser8709]

@@Wishmaster787 Ah the ever so famous "WoW players'' defense. Yeah I'd rather take the WoW experience where people don't like to be sabotaged and will get rid of the problem than the XIV be forced to endure people sabotaging me or risk issues. If you don't know what to, join a learning party not a farm party.

[@Wishmaster787]

@@linkaiser8709 I knew what I was doing it was some other guy that lied and said he knew the mechanics in Abyssal fracture extreme and after he failed the meteors 5 times the party chat turned into that scene from Wolf of Wall Street.

[@linkaiser8709]

@@Wishmaster787 Someone who doesn't know what to do shouldn't join a farm party. Very well warranted. Said dude was willingly sabotaging the runs and wasting everybody's time. That isn't a WoW Experience, that is a everything experience. There is a reason in school we didn't pick the kid who sucked for our teams, or the dumb kid for our assignment groups. An outburst of rage might be unnecessary but it is still warranted.

[@sunayocarissime5309]

Me sometimes it has to do with the group. I've had occasions where I LITERALLY had to carry a group because I was the ONLY DPS actually DOING ANYTHING! I'll muscle through it and then say in FC Chat, "AUUUURRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!! MY BBBBAAACKKKK!!!!"😖😖😖 That and you can't blame people for NOT wanting to do the Strayborugh Dreadwalk. From what I know EVERYONE hates that expert, especially the first boss that seems like it was custom made to make your experience an absolutely miserable one. Little wonder people will just prefer to eat the penalty rather than deal with a boss that annoying.😖😠 They always laugh saying, "bad DPS again huh?" I usually don't leave an Expert/Savage/Extreme unless something really bad happens. Like one time I was in the middle of an Alexander EX run and the drunk neighbor actually ran their car into our front yard! Thank God I moved from that place, it was a borderline cardboard bungalow.😒

[@alexhaupt2134]

For context, I am a sprout and have no access to a keyboard while playing (weird setup): I had my first leaver recently in Cutter's Cry; a WHM sprout that was getting (completely civil) comments that she should be using Esuna from the two DPS, as they kept dying. I have been learning to tank a bit (mainly because I want to see the job quests) and was probably overpulling for my skill level--and that of the WHM, who was similarly silent while playing. The DPS weren't dying because of no Esuna; they were dying because *I* kept dying first. So naturally, I could simply pull less, and I was thinking of getting up to ask her if I should during my fourth pull After she had stopped walking for a moment and the two DPS stopped following me mid-pull to talk, only for her to vanish *instantly*, resulting in me getting the popup and instantly closing it (I did not know about the duty menu!), and also reaulting in my death lol. I hope she didnt leave because she was overwhelmed! I didn't remember the name, so I couldn't message her after! I felt so bad lol! We got an AST in only like 30 seconds once one of the DPS told me how to call for new players.

[@scarletluna4536]

I can't tell you how many DPS I have gotten that were nuts, strangely they all came from the same server on our Data Center. Like I was leveling my second tank so I knew what the hell I was doing. These two DPS came in together with a friend who was healing and they were teaching them how to use Sage. Well, I already leveled Sage and can tell you, they were not teaching them right at all. I never got a shield prior to pulling large groups of mobs just a start to the bad healing. But I didn't care, I was a tank and I was determined to get through it. The one DPS bitched and whined the whole damn time. Literally harassment the way he was acting. Now the way I tank, which is the way MOST tank, is that I hit sprint before engaging the first group. I will run through hitting them once and run to the second group (usually only 2 groups wall to wall but if there were more, I just continue running and hitting them with AOEs as I go). The sprint lasts 10 seconds longer outside of combat which is why I pop it before engaging, still gives me more time with it then if I popped it after getting aggro and starting my run. Once I get to the last group, I will hit my MIT just as the first group is reaching me to get the most out of the MIT. I will only pop one because I need the second for the next group of mobs and it I use them both, the CD won't let it be ready in time. Well, this DPS was whining and complaining that I didn't know how to MIT and that I wasn't even MITing at all. At first I said I was, but I was still dying which I normally didn't die in this duty. The healer just wasn't healing me and as a Sage, Kardio would have been enough if they used it right (3 or less you attack a single mob, 4 or more you attack a group). He was only attacking a single mob and I had 6+ on me at a time. After a while, I just ignored the DPS. But at one point the HEALER complained that I was only using 1 MIT and should be using 2 MITs on each pull! Impossible since if I did that, the MITs wouldn't have been off CD for the next pull. Of course, classic ASSHOLENESS, they waited until we were almost to the final boss to initiate a vote to kick me. I got a new group instantly and tore through the same duty like it was nothing because I had a REAL healer and REAL DPS. I told them what happened and they couldn't understand what the issue was with my tanking. The issue was their healer sucked and instead of teaching him, they harassed the tank! As a healer main (at that point levels a White Mage and Sage to max level), i don't like bashing or putting down healers but this one was HORRIBLE. Made us real healers look bad. But with all that said, there are a few bad apples out there and from my personal experience, they all came from one server on my Data Center.

[@SC-cx9ti]

Learn and adapt. If I find a tank who is having basic trouble in shadowbringers. Then I'mma wonder whats up or if they class skipped their first tank. If a tank is having trouble with an early dungeon, I'mma assume they are figuring stuff out. If a healer is always expecting perfection, then they arent worth worrying about. If they wanted to see great tanking, then they ahould queue as tank.

[@SmithyJones]

What causes it? Tried of people only unlocking just Crystal Tower because it's MSQ required. Tired of getting trolled and flamed when calling out players for just putting healers or tanks on follow and just being dragged through while AFK in the raid. I want to plate the other 4 raid series not just Crystal tower

[@EntityXIII]

I think this problem started to surface somewhere in the middle of Endwalker's patch content. Before that, sure, you had people who outright loathed or despised a few duties, or had a migraine headache and didn't need King Mog Extreme in the middle of a dozen flashing lights that happen all at once; it was a problem that technically existed since ARR. But somewhere along the way, during 6.x, far more people began to feel duty fatigue where, unless it was an explicitly fun or quick duty or with a crowd that looked worth the time and energy, people who queued into a duty would realize, "Oh, right, I'm just not in the mood for this." Combine with hunt trains making those duties obsolete for tomes, and the relics only needing tomes for each and every step, and the fatigue and interest to actually run duties got worse. People queued in out of habit, but left when they realized they didn't want to be there. Now we're in Dawntrail. The fights are fun, but the EW Patch era fatigue has warped that hope that everyone would stay. Now we're aware of people leaving, or disconnecting so they would be booted after five minutes (meaning anyone else not wanting that duty would only have to wait the five instead of fifteen). I think what people need is something new. We need more than just another singular tome grind. We need more than one dungeon per patch. We need more than singular railroads per dungeon, too, if it can be helped. We need people to be excited to run the content so it's not just a tired routine. Otherwise the problem will get worse before SE decides to address it.

[@Eibon]

While I haven't played as much FFXIV (especially roulette content) within the last month, I wasn't seeing what felt like an increase in leavers on Gilgamesh - in fact, it felt exceptionally rare (and thus kinda funny) when someone straight up left to dodge a duty. My inclination is to say that hasn't really changed on Gilga since I've backed off how much I was playing. As for leaving myself, I very rarely leave duties. It has to truly be egregiously bad before I leave. I've left a few DF duties (maybe around 5 in my 8+ years of playing) due to toxic people, and a few duties more because of people so bad it felt like the duty wouldn't be completed. Mind you, I am not a Mentor and thus do not queue for Mentor Roulette, so that helps.

[@MegaDarkness5000]

I've never left a duty unless I'm the last person in the party. I find it a disgraceful if you don't even try an attempt on the content. Also, to those who leave DT Experts or the Neir content. You will never get better at that content if you don't go through them and learn. The likelihood of the DT raids going to be a bit more difficult this time around, so I recommend not leaving something you find hard.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Same! Personally I have this position of "I rolled the dice and here I am!" and it has to be absolutely insurmountable for me to give up! 😅

[@kurki6667]

The problem with nier raids is the take to long for the reaward

[@MegaDarkness5000]

@@kurki6667 Neir is getting faster due to gear scaling.

[@cyrona5914]

2 Days ago my whole Daily Roulette: Expert: Together with 3 Friends high level: Baelsar Wall, Healer left instant leveling: Haukke Normal, 3 sec until i was a alone sad lvl 34 Wiiiideemage Alliance: 3rd Nier Raid: One Alliance gone away fully, my Alliance 2+ me still there Normal Raid: Alex, coz quick fight no leavers PvP: no sense in leaving here i guess

[@Kurainuz]

I have been seeing this expansion, but not just with this expansion content more and more people leaving the moment there is a wipe even if it was a good try. Idk if people is having less fail tolerance os something but i have really seen it increase, it went from seeing it trice on normal content in hundreds of hours, to seeing it almost every week.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yeah same! Initially I thought it was a case of players being in a hurry to level up or something, so they had to rush everything, but I don't feel like the tendency died down as we got further into dawntrail, so I don't know if that could be blamed 🤔

[@courtesan8784]

Because most duties in this game suck, follow the same pattern and are extremely boring as a result. Whoopsie doo, 2 pack wall-to-wall pulls without any danger and extremely streamlined bosses, so fun. Havent done that the last 3 expacs already! Also roulette heavily favours ARR content and usually THE SAME DUNGEONS or if I do expert now as a tank its always Alexander. The issue is that now you are level synced down to pressing 1 button with even less stimulation and gameplay or you are ITEM SYNCED (dumbest thing ever ngl) so the run takes forever for artificial reasons. I sure loved getting that savage BIS so my expert roulette can take forever for my daily!

[@ofeliperas]

This video appeared to me right after i replaced a DPS spot on Warrior of Light... I really can't belive people quit that trial... when i asked, they said the last dps quited right after a sprout tank missed the LB timming... that's really pitful... that one dps was there for the first time one day... and now act like that...

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed, this kind of reason is exactly a large part of why this tendency to leave concerns me too! 😰

[@carolinemccall2608]

Controversial opinion here, but I came to FFXIV on PC from ESO on xbox. This is the exact bad behavior that was "normal" there. Since this trend is aligned with the addition of xbox on top of DT, it is my opinion that these are the people leaving. Since as a PC player, I cannot see the xbox people (they should have a icon imho) so I am not 100% but suspicious.

[@orciencor6001]

I admit, the instant leaving thing so many do (or cancelling a queue that's just popped because, I assume, they've got one of those mods that can see WHAT they're about to go into) is always struck me as weird. But this is solely because I do not queue for any roulettes that I'm not willing to deal with *every* possibility that can come up from it. Join alliance raids? I'm expecting a CT one because it's always CT even if I'm *hoping* for Dun Scaith or Orbonne (I always hope for these, they're my favs). But if it is instead Nier or Twelve raids? So be it, sure it'll take longer, but I knew the possibility was there. Same with queuing for MSQ. It's always going to be the one I least want to do at the time for whatever reason I least want it, but I did it knowing that's what I'm going to get, so I'm not going anywhere. I don't have Mentor, so I don't have to worry about that one, but I'd probably opt not to for my simply having never done any of the extremes unsynced and thus being yet another who would need to learn them instead of help clear them anyway. I also really wish they made that Join In Progress button more obvious somehow. Point out its existence early on. I'm fine with it staying opt-in or it being turned into an opt-out option, I just think it needs to be *KNOWN* about. Maybe that needs to be a check-markable option on the front page of the finder, instead of hidden in the optional settings. Though either way, I've had it turned on since the moment I originally found it, and have never once turned it off since. I will always be someone who will be able to fill a party in need.

[@Scar1etVT]

"That mod" hasn't been able to check what duty was in the roulette since at least 6.1.

[@orciencor6001]

@@Scar1etVT That makes me wonder even more why people seem to tend to cancel a queue mere seconds after it pops. And it tends to happen multiple times in a row too.

[@maths4297]

​@@orciencor6001 I've done this in the past and there's a few things it could be for me. a) dungeon queue popped JUST as you hit withdraw so you could go do something else b) my cat did something stupid that I need to deal with immediately right when queue popped. c) someone I was queuing with noticed I picked the wrong queue options and they are NOT having it

[@Scar1etVT]

@@orciencor6001 If it's PVP, it's because people are trying to queuesync. If it's a normal duty it's usually because someone in a partial party is AFK.

[@vagrant2863]

I can attest to the not knowing about the option thing. I didn't even know there was a menu to change the options.

[@titaniumvulpes]

I just get so mentally understimulated by LotA and Syrcus Tower that I often wait to do Alliance Raid Roulette as the very last thing I do for the day, and if I get one of those raids I just leave and log out. I just have more interesting things to do with my day than watch people argue about where to tank the dragon while I go cross-eyed and press 1 a billion times. I did do an early Alliance Raid Roulette a few weeks back and got LotA and decided to stick it out for the Adventurer In Need bonus, but after the first boss one of our healers was like "Can I say something. I...... don't want to be here" and left and as I brought up the duty menu to also leave I watched _5 other people_ in the party leave as well. A whole alliance just _gone_ right before the Atomos fight lmao. I'm usually the first to go so I rarely see the fallout but the fact _so many_ of us left is a testament to the fact so few people actually want to do the early CT raids, and I feel like that could easily be alleviated by making the raids something you can't just sleep through. Even WoD doesn't usually have this effect on people because you at least have to pay a little bit of attention for some of the bosses. Make us have to actually do the mechanics in CT again and more people would stay.

[@dragonriderabens9761]

As someone who played WoW for over a decade before coming to FFXIV, I noticed that a lot of WoW players favor min-maxing efficiency over just playing the game And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the first big expansion after the exodus and refugee influx has this issue