Why are Some Guard Players ANGRY About the New Rogal Dorn Battle Tank?

[@JimH.]

Bottom line take: Is it the end of the world? No. Is it the worst thing GW has ever done? No. Should you get a full model for $90? Yes.

[@rickyl3136]

The most mature commont I've seen so far, A+

[@e33d90]

ok consumer, glad you are willing to defend the multi million dollar company and advertise for people to buy and disregard an incomplete set lol

[@easonyeung2779]

@@e33d90 What do you mean? Isn't the original guy basically saying with the last rhetorical question that if we're paying $90 for a model, at least the model should look finished?

[@Silver_Paladin]

you should get like three of these for $90 USD 💀

[@baval5]

cant have a bottom line take, the bottom line is missing =P

[@invictarussuzerain]

I for one look forward to the Ferrus Manus turretless tank.

[@bionic_pyro7220]

It's a strictly Melee tank with a big, metal fist strapped to the front end. You know, so it can stay on brand for Ol' Iron Hands.

[@schro34]

And it looks like an Old Land fortress that has only small weapons fire. And when it gets up close out comes a Comicly Large Hammer to whack the enemy HQ with

[@danialhamilton7666]

Its nothing to lose your head over

[@stephenleggett4243]

Ouch.

[@basketcase289]

This just made me think that as an April Fools joke GW should announce they are doing a Headless Horsemen model and its just a render of Ferrus Manus without a head on the Lord Solar horse

[@SkvarkTheOneAndOnly]

First we had Abaddon the armless, now Rogal the bottomless. Splendid.

[@vahlok1426]

I expect fan art of armless Abaddon and assless Rogal looking dejected asap

[@OtakuGenetics]

Armless abaddon???

[@simonleach6632]

Ok, so let me get this straight, miniart can make a 1:35 scale kit of (for example) the M3 Lee/Grant tank (others are available in the range) with full interior detail (I'm talking engine, fighting compartment, turret, the works, not a single detail left out) complete with marking options for 4 tanks, photo etched parts (etched brass) and transparent parts, for £55 or there abouts. That is an infinitely more complex model than anything GW can make with a parts count clocking in at well over 1000 plus probably the same if not more time spent in research, design, and engineering to make make it work and GW can't even give you a solid floor in what is a laughably simplistic model for the same price? Something seems a bit out of whack here....

[@ignatiuscheese6807]

Well they did name it after Rogal Dorn. He has bits missing too!

[@JimH.]

Ah EEZ FUNNY because EE dozen hav EEZ 'and!!

[@arc0006]

What's he missing?

[@suwote]

@@arc0006 a wrist if I recall it correctly

[@WardenOfTerra]

@@suwote - One does not simply just have a wrist missing...

[@edwinjuengel4168]

My gripe is that they cut cost on a model that is 100$ and we all know that cost cut isn't getting passed on to customers. We are paying 100$ for thst thing regardless of bottom

[@Schnittertm1]

The thing is, that it would cost them just a few cents to mold a part for the bottom. Northern Exile mentioned several times that the printed material is costing more in production than the plastic. Outer Circle is even working in that industry and also knows that the cost of the kits, even with CAD modelling for the molds and creating the casting molds themselves would come out to only a single digit dollar/euro/pound value in the end, with enough volume of production, which GW has. Even far more intricate scale models that are even bigger than this tank are cheaper and have a bottom.

[@davidstone-haigh4880]

yeah, GW have been pulling a fast one for years now-can't believe how much their kits cost. Don't get me started on FW and their crappy resin lumps.

[@davidstone-haigh4880]

@@Schnittertm1 all about the profit margin and bugger all else.

[@nathanthom8176]

Didn't cut cost. Nearly all GW 3 sprue models are around £40-£50 (sorry using £s) depending on how densely packed the Sprue is. It is obvious that designing the model with the full floor would take it to 4 sprues which would have raised the price to probably around £60. GW model costs are pretty much based on number of Sprues and Density. The question is which is the option you would want, the more expensive model or a hole on the base which is never visible most of the time or which could be covered very easily? Also no body complains that the atv and Ad-mech tank has had this for years or that the attack bikes have had the same thing for decades

[@nathanthom8176]

@@Schnittertm1 you can't assume costs without knowing the intended timescales for recouping development and manufacturing cost. What we do know is that the cost of a kit throughout GWs range is pretty much tied to number of Sprues and Density of those sprues; seriously go through similarly priced kits and you will see a pretty consistent pricing pattern with only the occasional outlier.

[@Sreven199]

Speaking as someone who's tangentially interested in 40k, but coming from a classic military modeling background, people indeed should expect that a tank that size that costs $90(!!!) to be a complete kit, bottom included. When I can get a 1/48 scale Tamiya Tiger (which is about the same size), and not only do I get a completely sealed kit, they throw in steel weights to help give the tank heft. That tank MSRPs for like $30. If we're talking more complex kits, then let me introduce you to Takom's 1/35 King Tiger. It's an even bigger piece of plastic, with a fully modeled interior and engine, working suspension, scale-correct armor thickness for modelers that want to do cutaways, over 1000 pieces of plastic and over 100 pieces of photo-etched metal for extra detail. That kit's MSRP was $70. For GW to have that much of an up charge on their kit, and still fail to give you the whole kit, it's frankly insulting to your community, but people keep licking it up and defending GW. *Edit, since I see a lot of mention about GW not wanting to have another sprue, and that would make it cost more. The Takom King Tiger I mentioned has 20 sprues, 2 bags of individual track links, and 2 sheets of etched brass. No excuse for a tank that costs $90.

[@brainyskeletonofdoom7824]

I totally agree, I do model planes and I'm used to see manufacturers add interiors and engines, even when you should not be able to see them in a completed model just in case you want to customise it! And for a fraction of the price as well! A giant like GW can afford a simple sprue with an almost flat piece, it doesn't WANT to!

[@FrancineL81]

i have a 1/48 tiger, its more predator size, already using them as cheaper options since its basically 2 tanks for the price of 1 GW tank and use 1/35 for larger tanks, screw gw's price gouging

[@bloodbane93]

In my opinion the fact it's missing is a slap in the face of calling this a model kit. This isn't a model, this is a game piece. You can't flip this over if it's destroyed, you can't make a diorama out of it. How can they justify this when Bandai makes Gundam models with full internal skeletons for half the cost?

[@captaincorundum9788]

Gundam Models blow, their detail is aight at best Don't buy the tank if you're bothered by the missing bit, they don't get your money that way Still doesn't matter much imo Edit: seems like I made some keyboard warriors mad. Cry more ya cheeto-dusted nerds ; )

[@CyrodiilCome]

@Captain Corundum dog you have clearly never put together a gundam kit pmao

[@timothytimmins5119]

@@captaincorundum9788 3d printer go brrrr and mine will have a bottom plate

[@finnishfatman]

In games it just gets removed (which is shame, used to be nice to have destroyed tanks littering the battlefield) and what kinda diorama requires the bottom to show? Tank bottoms usually aren't that visible and if it's destroyed tank diorama, could be hole through the hull anyway 🤷‍♂

[@SlocumJoe7740]

@@captaincorundum9788 How do those Corporate Boots taste? You couldn't suck up more if you were a hoover.

[@yishumate]

It does seem really weird that they left that hole there. If someone based it or made a diorama with it elevated or something, that hole would be very obvious

[@OptimusMonk01]

If someone is making a diorama, I'm sure they have the skills to add a floor

[@comrade_commissar3794]

@@OptimusMonk01 They shouldn’t have to

[@vermin9190]

@@OptimusMonk01 if i pay for something i expect all of it NOT A GIANT FUCKING HOLE THAT I HAVE TO FILL

[@aramusbelmont4992]

If I’m paying almost $100 for a tank, I shouldn’t have to make the damn floor.

[@Talon3000]

We like to turn over destroyed vehicles on their back. With this.. gonna look awkward. xD

[@jaycenserrano1725]

The Squigbuggy has no bottom AND no options/upgrades. I get that it's because you're supposed to put it on a base, but it really limits modeling opportunities for a faction where no two pieces of equipment are supposed to look the same.

[@richmcgee434]

And yet the trukk, a much older kit, has the same kind of full detailing you'd expect from any decent modern model auto kit. GW has neither pride nor shame.

[@yishumate]

I did not know that

[@jackofn0trades29]

One of the few instances of GW falling right into hands of the diabolical 3D printing community.

[@thenathanimal2909]

*twirls mustach, prints 2000k army for $50*

[@CuteAssTiger]

Muhahaha my 13cent marines will show you

[@maksymilians931]

My 5$ Repulsor Executioner says hi

[@thenathanimal2909]

@@maksymilians931 my $5 Wraithknight waves to your Repulsor and the 13 cent marines and invites them over for BBQ and Smash Bros

[@iannordin5250]

Many of the 3d printed tanks are just straight better in design

[@leeacher2k]

It's the principal of the matter. If I pay 100 bucks for a model I better get the full model. Yeah I get there's no interior in most tanks but a lot of use really like the building and painting.

[@oneearrabbit]

And how does the lack of a plate on the bottom you never see affect the painting of this model?

[@hinti24]

@@oneearrabbit What is a Model? A miniaturised version of a larger specimen? Ok - so the 'real' in lore Dorn has no floorplate. Its a shame - and it bothers many.

[@oneearrabbit]

@@hinti24 It still looks like a tank when it’s sitting there, doesn’t it? It looks exactly like a miniature version of a tank floor plate or no. Not only that the lack of a floor plate actually makes the tank easier to set down on a table with numerous pieces of terrain. If it had that floor plate the tank would tilt sitting atop a piece of terrain.

[@hinti24]

@@oneearrabbit I disagree wildly. You are talking about a gaming piece - I am talking Models. I could not care less about usability. I enjoy building and painting more - and I modify them often. A missing part is inexcusable. I am confident that one could deman a refund due to the product being faulty. My refrigerator has a back pannel despite me nor being able to see it...

[@oneearrabbit]

@@hinti24 This is a game piece! What do you think Warhammer 40K is?! It’s not faulty, it came as intended. The piece is not missing since it doesn’t come with any kit. Just because YOU think of it as a painting model doesn’t change the fact that this is first and foremost intended to be used as a piece in a game. Also your refrigerator missing a back price may affect its functionality. This missing piece in no way affects the way this model functions and in fact as stated may improve functionality on the table.

[@TrippyGame]

RC motor idea is the best idea for it imo. Little Dorn tank running around the battle with a cannon fire sound effect and light up barrel

[@steve6135]

Maybe in 10th edition models will remain on the board when destroyed. Having that hole makes it a lot easier to put in flame effect and/or a tea light to show fire. Clearly GW had that in mind when designing the tank 😂

[@rickyl3136]

This is the kind of player you want 🤣 keep it up brother👍

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Hope so. Non-exploded vehicles should remain.

[@ZaberFangAT]

@@andrewbakescakes9684 Way back in the stone age of WH40K, I'm pretty sure they did. I started playing (the first time, anyway) in 3rd edition, and I think part of being a vehicle was that, if it didn't explode, it became terrain.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@ZaberFangAT - I remember this too. I started in 2nd (but have been off/on the whole time). I really liked some of the rules from "back in the day".

[@TheAtomicSpoon]

@@ZaberFangAT I don't remember if it was an actual rule, but in 5/6/7th (At least the people I played with) always left vehicles on the board when destroyed. It makes no sense to just have things magically disappear when destroyed.

[@VAQUING1991]

The hole really should not be there. We pay premium prices and should expect a premium product. But realistically, it's a nice plate to store magnetized bits. And if you look at my other tanks, none of them have that bit painted. Mine is coming Saturday and I can't wait

[@clinch4402]

The rhino and land raider both have places to store magnetised bits. Both with mechnical doors. Kits over 20 years old, btw.

[@nathanthom8176]

Okay, look at the prices for 3 sprue kits across thier range. It's surprising consistent that the cost is pretty much between £40 and £50ish dependent on how densely populated the sprues are. Knowing that to have the "premium" model kit you insist on would be 4 Sprues, are you willing to potentially pay an extra 20%? The fact is that whether you are happy or not doesn't really matter, what matters is is how much it would cost a Guard player to buy 3 of them for the table and whether GW think the extra cost to the consumer of going to 4 sprues would put them off; they took a chance and I know if I was guard player I would prefer the overall cost reduction versus an unimportant issue such as this.

[@adammoore7520]

@@nathanthom8176 You're working overtime trying to defend the billion dollar companies margins

[@nathanthom8176]

@@adammoore7520 might want to look at the company estimated value (nowhere near billions). Also I see you haven't actually argued against any of my points. Happy to be proved wrong, so I will wait and say have a nice day.

[@Licmebro]

@@nathanthom8176 you do realize it cost more to make highly detailed bits than a slab of plastic with some ridges on it. The fact you ppl keep bringing up sprues without understanding that the more detail per bit increases the price of the mold dramatically... Shows you have zero understanding of the actual process.

[@rustedcog2347]

End up with spiders living in your tank.

[@TheGainfulGamer]

Oh that! That is so you can have your crew drop out the bottom of the tank. Now you can emergency evac more efficiently. No command point required. 👌

[@editor2766]

The biggest problem is there are no seats

[@RockSplitter]

Even if it’s out of sight, cutting corners like this is just rubs me the wrong way.

[@captaincorundum9788]

The skorpius tank has this same kind of void It's not a big deal

[@LinkiePup]

Would you prefer a big flat panel taking up more room on the sprue? Or more weapon options?

[@ravager990]

People don't really understand the repercussions of accepting/tolerating stuff like this. The more you let them get away with it without voicing your dissatisfaction the more they will do. This is a common trickle - test the market approach that you can see everywhere, they ease people in to mindlessly lower their standards more and more till we pay 100$ for a tau stealth suit box that comes with only 3 transparent bases. For everyone who this doesn't affect, If it doesn't bother you, move along and enjoy your model. Stop trying to bully people that criticize corporate scummyness, you won't receive freebies.

[@CyrodiilCome]

@Perry I'd prefer the almost $100 tank not have corners cut to save them a bit of money

[@FlyingNinjaish]

So what are you willing to trade for it? Sponsons are probably the right size, though pushing the cost up to $120-130 to add another sprue would also work.

[@drmalpractical]

the fact that GW tries to claim that they’re a model company first and a games company second, and then they pull this.

[@KnightsofTitan]

@@teathpaste3301 they do it all the time

[@135forte]

@@teathpaste3301 It the go to defense when the rules are borked months after release.

[@gordonross3270]

@@teathpaste3301 they are literally categorized as a Toy Company.

[@davidstone-haigh4880]

yep, very silly design. Cartoonish and impractical. I can't believe the loony old Leman Russ is still about. It's a decades old design and just as daft as this pile of donkey doo doo.

[@Lowlandlord]

Cheap bastards is what they are.

[@WilhelmScreamer]

It just feels wrong to pay for the experience of model making and not having a full model

[@DefaultProphet]

Dunerider also doesn’t have a bottom and nobody cares

[@LinkiePup]

Would you prefer a big flat panel taking up space for more weapons? Or more weapons?

[@CyrodiilCome]

@@LinkiePup I'd prefer my almost $100 tank to not have corners cut

[@megazaku1139]

@@LinkiePup how about both

[@Alf_Hairy-arse]

@@LinkiePup honestly, the panel

[@MrAndy365]

Best one I've heard so far is, "It's called the Rogal Dorn, of course it's missing a bit"

[@Narcomancer1943]

I don’t see a problem with it at all, I just need to go find that part and print it. Infact, I might as well print some of the other parts while I’m at it. Oh alright, I’ll print the whole thing.

[@EditingComby]

I don't believe in this being a trade-off, I think this is just laziness and cost-cutting for higher profit margins - unless there's very good reason not to do so, a baseplate can easily be integrated into the hull on almost any tank kit and the sprue built around that fact. Models at this price range should not have the option to come with any obviously missing pieces or openings, given the ease with which this problem could be solved.

[@skirk248]

It's almost $100 after taxes. I think a baseplate is a reasonable request

[@Gudbjarten]

We went from sculpted interiors to this. While in the same space of time prices nearly doubled

[@Pers0n97]

THIS!

[@nathanthom8176]

Nowhere near double when inflation is factored in. Sure GW has been increasing prices at faster the rate of inflation but there's no need to overexagerate. Also models that need sculpted interiors have them (Impulsor), the Dorn doesn't as it has no troop carrying role and the Predator etc only had it is it utilised the Rhino base model with a specialist sprue for its specific parts.

[@cheesybarbarian2867]

@@nathanthom8176 agreed

[@Ed-1749]

@@nathanthom8176 "but if you add the inflation" if I can spend 100 dollars and get a better model than this, it's a bad model. It doesnt matter what the lizards on wall street say, all that matters is whether people will buy the models, and a lot of people arent willing to foot the bill for something so high costed and cheaply built.

[@nathanthom8176]

@@Ed-1749 I don't know how many times I have to state this but here we go again... This model with a full floor would be on 4 sprues and would then be 10% more minimum (fact GW's pricing is pretty much based on number of Sprues and Density of Sprues). I will use an alternative model in comparison, the Sicaran Battletank is also on 3 sprues but is slightly less dense and guess what it is a slightly cheaper model. To have the "full model" (cough attack bikes have had a hole in the bottom for decades) would require spreading the parts over 4 sprues, this increasing the cost of the kit; if I was buying 3 of these for the table, I would probably prefer them as is rather than paying more for them.

[@shiftandrew]

i wouldn't have a problem with the hole if the tank didn't cost 90 freaking dollars

[@wolfhunter98]

Or include the damn plate for 95 woulda been fine with me. *shrug*

[@viciousyeen6644]

Bro it didn’t even cost them 95 cents in production... they’re scamming people with plastic crack

[@spoonsrattling]

@wolfhunter98 well it wouldn't be 95. Sure that's a fun pipe dream, include another sprue and woops your tank now costs 110 dollars.

[@wolfhunter98]

@@spoonsrattling Just really need to add a small sprue with just the bottom plate. Then toss it in the box. And I doubt even GW would raise it that much. Look at the russ, was a whole massive near 2nd tank sprue added. That didn't go up much.

[@spoonsrattling]

@wolfhunter98 while that would be nice, chances are if they added another sprue the price would have jumped from 90 to 110, even if they custom made it for literally just that one part.

[@7aro7Dragoon]

to be fair if i had paid that much for a tank, id expect the whole tank.

[@Hollywood113807]

I think the biggest thing is that GW could have told people about this before it went on sale. They know the community and should have seen this coming. I'd be pissed if I bought one and saw it was "missing" a piece but if GW was open about it before people bought it then that takes most of the issue away. This feels like a bait and switch to me.

[@Rottenflieger.]

I think given the admech hover tank didn't get the same level of backlash, despite having even less underside, they probably can't be blamed for not anticipating the backlash for this model.

[@markhickson1066]

@@Rottenflieger. Not sure that is a valid logic. The player base for Admech is known to be very very small. IG have a much bigger, longer standing following.

[@JamesEarlCash]

Tell people how? That's not specifically good advertising material showing or telling that bottom part of the tank is not there.

[@Rottenflieger.]

​@@markhickson1066 while that may be true, I'm just not seeing how it makes much of a difference. In this scenario, GW would have to release the admech tank, not see much social media backlash, interpret the absence of backlash to a result of a smaller admech playerbase, and then decide to make future kits with hull floors to avoid future backlash from the playerbase of a more popular faction. That just feels like unreasonable expectations to me, especially from a business that is generally pretty slow to react to customer trends. They'd be making a decision to increase the cost of the rogal dorn kit, based on minimal data.

[@VoidplayLP]

@@Rottenflieger. >minimal information Literally just have a social media guy "infiltrate" Community places and ask if theyd be okay with it

[@Autechltd]

Unfortunately sunlight shines through the model now since the grills are also see-through. While this is fixable, it does feel a bit cheap.

[@stemes2860]

It doesn't feel cheap. It is cheap. Say it with some confidence.

[@Autechltd]

@@stemes2860 cheap like yo momma who also happens to have a gaping hole problem. Oooooooo Jk

[@h2835]

My thoughts on the missing floorplate: It would have been a non-issue, if the grills on the engine covers were not see-through. But since those have holes in them, then it should have been added. I would also not mind, if we had an upgrade kit with a dozer-blade, the missing floor plate and whatever goodies fit on the sprue.

[@Paladin327]

It totally would have been an issue even then. Warhammer players on the internet activly look for shit to complain about

[@h2835]

@@Paladin327 I would not complain about it, if the price point was reasonable. But it is not, and it keeps going up way faster than everything else. I can buy a box of 20 plastic soldiers (Catachans) for 54 EUR from Games workshop. OR I could buy a box of 20 plastic soldiers from Wargames Atlantic with all the special weapons upgrades for 38 EUR.

[@peterchestowski2419]

Looks at his Khorn Lord of skulls. "That guy entire backside is bottomless and I never heard anyone complain" :P

[@zacharywilson419]

Now that I know I'm kinda bother about that since the model is like 125 or more bucks dang lol

[@annaleas2091]

the missing bottom is reminiscent of the older tamiya 1/35 tank kits that allowed you to motorize them...odd that GW chose to go that route

[@rickyl3136]

I didn't know that, thank you for the info. 👍

[@richmcgee434]

Yeah, but those old kits advertised the fact that they had a huge freaking hole in them. You knew what you were getting. This was deliberate deceit on GW's part, and how they thought it would be a good look for them in 2023 is beyond me.

[@B4D4617f]

I’m a guard player. Spend quite a bit on guard models. I won’t be buying this out of principle.

[@OptimusMonk01]

They could include a free cardboard floor with an issue of White Dwarf

[@markhickson1066]

🤣

[@scrubsrc4084]

Scale modellers hate it too. Tamiya panthers come with armour plates missing under the superstructure above the track. It's just cheating out.

[@Stealthwilde]

This reminds me of how I noticed the tau broadside’s rail rifle is conspicuously missing a small part, but no one ever seems to comment on it.

[@tecguy1229]

I don't think the bottomless hull bothers me, what it does bother me is the price. If it had been cheaper, and had that piece missing, good! But it is not the case, you're playing 90 bucks for a missing piece...

[@AnikaJarlsdottr]

dont worry, give it 6 months and they will try to flog us an "upgrade sprue" with the missing belly plate and nothing else.

[@nathanthom8176]

Why cheaper? I mean the Sicaran Battle Tank which is also on 3 sprues though slightly less densely populated, is only slightly less in price. The fact is the model price is pretty much dictated by number of Sprues and how densely populated those sprues are, the Rogal Firm's price is consistent with this; there are outliers due to being niche units (relative cost of assassins for instance) and some older models are cheaper as they have been aloud longer.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@Nathan Thom and the sprue prices are overcosted, it's not a defense of the product, if you buy a starwars legion tank you can get a tank with at least 5 sprues for 30 bucks less then this, the price of 3 saber tanks is equal to 2 dorn tanks, and one of those is a number you won't ever want in a standard game

[@iwillbecomeimmortalordietr8506]

@@nathanthom8176 considering how many units are blown out of scale with price (looking at you admech in it's entirety) your argument doesn't hold much water. Don't forget that gw charges more for 10 necron warriors on their own then the recruit starter box which gives you spaces marines aswell as the necrons

[@nathanthom8176]

@@iwillbecomeimmortalordietr8506 disingenuous much? Starter boxes, combat patrols and Battleforce boxes are reduced to encourage adoption by new players (sometimes used to get rid of unpopular units as well). Also I hear so often how ridiculously expensive Warhammer 40k is supposed to be but I also buy A Song of Ice and Fire and Infinity and they aren't really much cheaper. Infinity requires less models so it is technically cheaper but per model it really isn't.

[@ThKiller458]

At these prices I want at least a complete model!

[@oneearrabbit]

It is complete. When assembled you have a complete model. That underplate has no effect on the look of that model when assembled, therefor it is complete.

[@ThKiller458]

@Matthew Doherty I guess the wordings hard to place, but I do think it doesn't count as a complete model with the hole beneath it imo, just strange to do.

[@meezith1418]

@@oneearrabbit They don't care they just want to complain.

[@cameronsprague101]

@@meezith1418 or you just want to needlessly dick ride because you've tied your value as a human to 40k...

[@andytan2411]

me personally i like that hole on the bottom, i can use that space to store spare turret and sponson weapons like some youtuber has done, but they still should've included the option to make it whole

[@Han-rw9ev]

As a model collector, I'd be pretty annoyed at seeing something like this.. I wouldn't even bother getting it..

[@peterkantor9494]

The bottom plate is the thinnest so if the tank blows up violently, then it blows out and the explosion flips the tank. So they were thinking about that. I wish dead vehicles would stay on the field btw, it is silly they just disappear entirely

[@dragonqueenniisan4122]

I love taking a bunch of Rockgrinders with my GSC, I would LOVE leaving the smoldering wreckage behind after I made them go boom.

[@khorneflakes4446]

Firing arcs and vehicle wrecks are one of my favorite parts of older editions, it feels so much more realistic and gritty.

[@rwjscaper]

I'd rather have a fourth sprue of extra interesting bits than the stupid detailless bottom I can just make out of plasticard in 3 seconds

[@daanvanderrol5627]

For this price you'd expect a complete model.

[@thomascruise4966]

Probably did it to save the 5 cents worth of plastic, lol. They did it back in 4th edition with their “18-inch” measuring sticks that weren’t actually 18” to save a bit of money on plastic. It’s silly to be pissed about it, but then for the prices they charge you *should* get a full kit. It *is* cheap, but I guess you could just put a piece of plasticard on the bottom.🤷🏼‍♂️

[@zackcook5123]

Its gw saving pennies on plastic, however at the prices they are charging is expecte a bottom

[@FlyingNinjaish]

I see you know nothing about the injection molding industry.

[@Pers0n97]

@@FlyingNinjaish I see you are trying to pretend you do, which is arguably way, WAY worse. Designing, creating master and mold and then printing another sprue would have had a minimal impact on the end price, that's something you should know if you worked in the industry.

[@ChrisFrosin]

Haha.. Thank you for the shout out mate. It's been an interesting week. 👊👊👌 Have an awesome week mate.

[@MrBunit90]

Im actually glad about the outcry. Can you just imagine where GW “cutting corners” can lead? Starts with a bottom piece missing at 90USD to what next? 100% be upset. If we accept this, this will be the new trend for modeling.

[@BB-pn2qv]

This is.. really absurd. There should not be a gaping HOLE in the bottom of your newest model

[@00nasco48]

*cries in skorpius dunerider"

[@Djnightmare14]

I’ve only played admech, I didn’t even know tanks had bottoms

[@00nasco48]

@@Djnightmare14it's considered forbidden knowledge

[@flamingopie]

As far as I'm aware, the cost of a mould comes down to the precision of the machining. A flat sprue should be flat sprue should be relatively cheap to produce

[@CaptJPurdie]

Babe-- buy shares in plasticard... don't ask.

[@ianfowler9505]

Couldn't give a toss.

[@ForTehNguyen]

people did unboxing videos and the 3 sprues for the kit are completely full, if they made space for a bottom piece it would be missing the weapons, accessory bits. Use it to stash snacks or magnetized weapons

[@K2HunterX]

They may as well have made an upgrade kit, that's too many options for people who don't like using magnets.

[@Pers0n97]

I keep seeing people coming up with this moronic take while failing to realize 2 important things; 1) Even with that hole, this tank comes woefully short when it comes to weapon opions. It only has 2 turrets when a Russ as 7 and a Baneblade has 8 (not counting FW stuff and not even talking about side weapons options). 2) Designing, creating molds and printing an additional sprue is way, WAY cheaper than you think, and by cutting a sprue out they are only saving pennies on the end product. 3) You don't need an opening to magnetize. I'm starting to suspect that all these people using that line have never magnetized anything in their life.

[@nathanthom8176]

@@K2HunterX are there any upgrade kits (not including chapter ones) for models outside the Horus Heresy? It seems to me pretty much all 40k stuff is all in the kit and if they released a new model and locked the best options behind an additional paywall to begin with, that that might have been problematic in itself; maybe they could have done as you suggest but I don't really think their solution is that bad.

[@pravond]

Funny that insides of rhinos are super detailed

[@TrypticOwen]

I felt the Repulsor was a little light on interior detail compared to the old LandRaider but this new tank does seem to be taking that to extremes...

[@bwtrader]

Spartan Interior is decent at least

[@TrypticOwen]

@@bwtrader haven't assembled mine yet - but looking forward to it - so this is good to hear!

[@josephmccarthy6098]

They want me to pay 90 dollars for a tank, but gw cant pay for 25 cents of plastic.

[@Meow110]

It's disgraceful. They charge us $110 here in Canada for 4$ worth of plastic, and leave the model incomplete. I can't believe they need to pinch pennies on a 900% margin product...

[@Broforce1]

There are alot of dumb takes here but you win for one of the dumbest. The plastic isn't the only thing that goes in to these. Development Production machines Employees Designers Artists Rules writers etc.

[@volcano3493]

"No more space on the sprue." How about NOT covering the tank with a ridiculous amount of guns? Then there would have been room for the base plate. Hard pass.

[@Outlawcarl]

As someone who mostly does 40K for modeling its very annoying, and for the price of GW i feel it really wasnt needed, I am mostly likely still going to buy one in the future but it stopped me form ordering it sooner as I wouldnt want to paint it until i found/made a bottom.

[@markhickson1066]

Doesn't that make you part of the problem and not part of the solution. "I'll buy stuff even when I'm not happy with it". This is why GW feel they can get away with this sort of behaviour.

[@Chasemcloud5745]

@@markhickson1066100% I’m sick of the GW apologists

[@richmcgee434]

If you're going 3D print a baseplate, why stop there? Print the whole tank. The files will be out there in no time if they aren't already.

[@Captain_Maximus]

Could just 3D print this tank for a fraction of the price

[@TheAtomicSpoon]

Someone had a 1:1 model done up about 2 weeks after this thing was announced.

[@RobBuzzy1]

Lol. Easier to spot the fakes because they're complete models.

[@monkeyhammer]

they don't detail the bottom of tanks anyway so it's not like you're missing out on anything if you put a piece of card in there. i'd much rather have some extra details for the top of the tank.

[@Don_.X]

Technically no, it doesn't matter that a part you will never see in gameplay is missing, It does lose some of the charm though. I like that the interior of rhinos are modelled even though most people glue them closed. It helps the hobby thematically to know it is there. To go to the extreme end of the argument, you could use paper cutouts to represent your tanks, but it wouldn't be as thematic when not viewed from the side.

[@norseman2834]

The number of hull-mounted weapons on the more recent GW vehicles is ridiculous. Everything doesn't need to be able to shoot every thing. How does a hull-mounted meltagun shoot something to the flanks of the tank? Does a little swivel pop out of the hole in the bottom and pivot the tank in all directions?

[@DMKA94]

The double hull mounted stubber/melts look terrible in my opinion. Same with the tiny sponsors on the side. A single hull mounted stubber would be fine. Also where on earth did this fetish for stubbers and mini guns come from. In the law their meant to be cheap and unreliable. Now even the marines are using them

[@demonic_myst4503]

And yet the basic dreadnaught doesbt even cone with the plasma cannon its is supost to be able to shoot

[@Pers0n97]

The hullmounted stuff feels very out of place and needless, but what's really shocking to me is how that new big shiny tank has the bare minimum turret options compared to the other IG tanks. That new tank only has 2 turret options, which feels very... bare-bone when you realise the Russ 7 has and the Baneblade has 8 different main gun variants, not even counting FW.

[@darkayen27]

I use the insides of my tanks to store the weapon swaps, but I guess I can't do that with the Dorn.

[@slipspacetacotaco4468]

Magnetize them and put magnets up in the dorn

[@darkayen27]

@@slipspacetacotaco4468 be easier to just fill the hole with plasticard

[@slipspacetacotaco4468]

@@darkayen27 or just ignore it

[@darkayen27]

@@slipspacetacotaco4468 "which will bring us back to doe"

[@josiegreene6140]

I bought 2. Do I wish they included a 4th sprue for $90? Yes. Do I give a shit that I had to prime, basecoat and dry brush a piece of plastic after glueing it onto my tank? Not at all. I love this fandom but good God some of y'all crack me up.

[@kurodashin]

kind of two minds on this. on the one hand GW for the longest time has said they are a model company first and a game company second which by that logic the model should be....well a complete model more so since what they produce is well priced over something similar. On the other hand maybe this is signs of a transition from a model company to a game company?Unless its on its back you cant really see this missing part . It would also let you put a smoke effect inside it to make it look more like its coming out of the model instead of it just kinda sitting on it(pretty weak excuse i know but meh). from what you can normally see it is a pretty swanky looking tank.

[@JordanR]

No. It's a sign of a shitty corporation saying whatever they have to.

[@DracoTheBlack]

It just reeks of cheaping out/cutting corners/decline in quality, especially given the thick margins they make on this stuff. My shitty old Devilfish chassis has a modeled and detailed interior ffs...

[@notknightbean]

I bet they thought no one would notice or care. Because they really don’t understand their community.

[@tigerstein]

Plenty of other models have no bottom, but the idiots haven't gone apsit crazy over it.

[@oddmonolithfilm2881]

I literally couldn't give a fuck.

[@FlyingNinjaish]

You think it's that, and not because no one cared about any of the other vehicles with open bottoms?

[@tigerstein]

@@FlyingNinjaish There was nothing like this when tohose kits came out.

[@bendickinson9965]

I get the feels bad, but its also a convenient spot to, say, flip over the tank and put on a smoke or fire prop for some cool effects when it gets destroyed in game.

[@reckoner1913]

Games Workshop really has got one thing going for it, which is the lore and setting. (And it even sometimes messes that up in its desire to make everything copywrite-able). The rules aren't great and are horribly over-detailed at this point. The prices are just horrendous. And I won't go into the whole treatment of content creators. It seems so primed for another company to come along, sell cheaper miniatures, even maybe official STLs, and have clearer rules and just destroy their market share.

[@k.v.delchev6022]

There are several of those. Parabellum is going very strongly with Conquest and the models are really well made. Both Infinity and Malifaux are better games than Kill Team and so on...

[@rickyl3136]

@@k.v.delchev6022 and yet no one actually leaves. I'm definitely not saying you're wrong to be clear but people are here for the same reason people play DnD over others.

[@anthonyrush8902]

@@rickyl3136 The issue is DnD doesn't have a better setting, just easier rules. 40k has the most popular setting by far.

[@FercPolo]

They'll fuck that up soon. Guarantee these pussies cave to the "we need female space marines in lore" crowd. Guaran-fucking-tee it.

[@vermin9190]

hey dont forget they are pushing more and more sjw fucking "everyones welcomed" BS in the lore

[@oldhatAN]

I just don't see what actual difference it makes. You can't see that part of the model on the tabletop anyway.

[@maxgaj3015]

Having a massive amount of trouble caring about this

[@jamiejones7730]

At the price it is... Finish The Model!

[@andrewamann2821]

It's not really an aesthetic issue... It's a structural one. That decision pulled a lot of torsional resistance from the structure, and surface area to hold the kit together, making it more likely that the model gets damaged in transit, and far more likely to turn minor damage, from an accidental drop, into catastrophic damage. It might not seem like much, but when you consider the size of the joins in these models, it doesn't really take much.

[@lovecervere3699]

Didn't the admech higgins boat also have a chunk missing out of the bottom of the rear compartment?

[@Paladin327]

The invader atv also has no bottom either

[@robertevans3173]

Nerd rage is a real thing. I think it is silly people are getting upset over something you will never see on the table.

[@aelminiatures]

Exactly, it's still one of the best looking kits they have done.

[@Outlawcarl]

We dont all just used these models for playing

[@robertevans3173]

@@Outlawcarl if you don't use the product the way it was intended, then it would be on you to "Fix it". GW made it to be on the table in a game.

[@sgtsharp1537]

@@robertevans3173 which is why they are a model company first and a games company seccond I would suppose.

[@robertevans3173]

@@sgtsharp1537 let's be honest, if they were a model company first then the company would produce historical models or modern models almost exclusively. But in reality the money they make is from this game we all share. The same can be said with the move towards GT, local tournament play and the nightmare of a living codex. They are a model company but also a game company. Because without the game and the moving goal posts that is the game itself then GW would not be nearly as profitable or relevant.

[@mikerbrenizer]

Since they can't sit, Cadia Stands!

[@rickyl3136]

Thank you, that made reading the comments way easier. Back into the breach

[@laurentderrien]

GW just tries to get all of us into 3d printing !

[@thenathanimal2909]

They secretly partnered with Elegoo and Anycubic

[@mavrick195]

This is literally the ork, "I'm a tank" meme w/ the guardsman Flintstoning their way across the battlefield

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

The iron warriors have struck again.

[@CteCrassus]

Looking at the sprues I agree that it's likely a lack of space in the sprues; They look quite densely packed, and the fact that both the front and back of the underside are detailed suggests there was once a piece between them. It's also *not* an excuse, mind you, and showcases a dreadful lack of foresight and proper planning. And the fact that the front and back are modeled actually makes it harder to just get a slab of plasticard and just plug the hole myself.

[@CteCrassus]

@Space Lizard From what I can see of the sprues, the tank has very little in the way of adornments. Like most IG wargear, it is very spartan as far as bling goes. Personally, I'd just either made the sprues wider to accomodate or outright removed the frankly stupid outside gunner.

[@tinylittledragon9412]

Maybe GW is learning from video game companies. You buy incomplete kits now, and if you want the rest later, you can buy the missing pieces as a DLC. Heck, in the future we may even have the chance to pay extra money for 'early access' to kits.

[@ohwell87]

Like the Beast Snagga box or Cadia stands? Where you got the stuff and codex a few months early

[@philistineau]

Shoddy. It’s not like it isn’t set at a premium price.

[@BadZombie]

I think more importantly GW never mentioned it. They want to charge you $90 to sell you the tank with the multi decade expectation that it would have a bottom.

[@ricksanchez3204]

Lord of skulls doesn't have a bottom either does or did anyone care?

[@SignoftheMagi]

Overall...yeah it feels cheap. The place left open is not that big so putting a plate or piece into the box would barely take any room. Yes I can cover this with a bit of plasticard but I should not have to, especially at the $100 USD price tag.

[@rottenmeat5934]

My first thought was, “Oh, hey! This might even sit flat on uneven terrain!”

[@spoonsrattling]

"This is outrageous! Absolutely ridiculous this tank doesn't have a bottom!" -me, the man who usually just leaves that area unpainted because it's a pain in the ass to paint

[@spoonsrattling]

Also with how cramped the sprue is I'm personally fine with it, it's not really the end of the world to just use plasticard.

[@nathanthom8176]

Exactly, they would have had to spread it over 4 sprues otherwise and would have probably increased the price by 10-20% because of this; the Sicaran Battletank has only slightly less densely populated sprues (3 sprues as well) and is coincidentally only slightly Cheaper than the Rogal Dorn.

[@Benjambles]

No bottom on it makes it easier to place on certain bits of scenery, or un-even terrain, as raised areas can just sit in the hole.

[@markhickson1066]

True, and fine if you want to leave the bottoms off your other models to achieve that. However, if one doesn't find placement a problem and did want a bottom on a $90 model, then it is rather annoying. I've personally not heard anyone complaining about their inability to place tanks on the tabletop, just ones complaining about the base being missing, so I'm not sure what situation your comment is helping.

[@LeCharles07]

Sounds like modeling for advantage to me. #BanTheRogalDorn

[@Wildwolf5910]

It's almost like paying 50+ dollars for a kit makes us expect that the entire kit will be there... huh

[@marcusmadrid6225]

Every other tank, from the humble rhino to the mighty baneblade, are great model, yes inside is hollow (except the rhino). We all see how much GW charge a Premium over all other competitors, so now with the quad bike and the Dorn tank, GW is shortcutting on models. Hasn't stopped them from asking for more money. While I do like the model, my issue is when I can purchase a Tamiya 1/35 Tank that's to scale or 2 1/72 scale tanks.or even at the same cost of a Rogal Dorn tank I could buy a 1:18 Scale German Leopard RTC Tank with Bullet Launch Function. Something isn't adding up, Ive seen better Kickstarter tanks now, which I will use one day for my custom guard army.

[@viciousyeen6644]

Since the production of a single sprue is in the Cent range, it’s outrageous that they cut down on it in that way!

[@Paladin327]

The cost of the making the molds can be in the range of thousands however

[@Victor-sk8by]

It's not a hard fix, especially if you make a habit of kitbashing now and then. Butttttt, I do understand the price value = product quality argument

[@slobiden.2593]

For the price of GW products. They cannot be cheap with the quality.

[@samvimes117]

Is storm in a teacup if there is a choice between no bottom or all options I know what I choose

[@Shardnadal]

The sprue theory seems very reasonable. I do understand people getting upset, but they're making waaaay too much of a big deal out of it.

[@rickyl3136]

Cuz what else would they have to cry about till the next big issue.

[@sweatilaa5325]

If I pay A LOT of money for a plastic toy tank it should be a full tank. No ands ifs or buts. This is why the proxy market exists, but proxy kits and 3d printing. GW is yet again showing how incompetent they are and are yet again giving people a reason to 3d print or order 3d prints. “No 3d printing bad! Buy from us!” “Here is an expensive tank that isn’t even a complete tank :)”

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

Such a shame this happened to such an otherwise cool looking model

[@Martin.W.F]

The amount of people bending over backwards to defend GW on this one is wild. You can't even justify the insane pricetag with a "premium model sculpt" anymore. Time to get that 3D printer for vehicles.