Why Are Willie Mays' Card Prices Dropping? Looking At Recent Ebay Sales Of Vintage Sports Cards!!

[@MidLifeCards]

I realize that the entire card market (mostly) has dropped in the past two years. But...keep in mind, I ran comps for Clemente, Aaron, Koufax, and others. The % drop of those players was not nearly as much as the drop in Willie Mays values.

[@MidLifeCards]

@@ACD1994 I’m not suggesting Mays is a bad buy. I’m simply seeing that his cards are selling for MUCH less than they didn’t years ago. Which, I find curious.

[@timothyniesen4879]

The 51 Bowman rookie card of Mays has recently surged

[@ACD1994]

@@MidLifeCards Yeah, I finished watching the video. You may be right about your theory. Mays, sadly passed away, and a lot of collectors were buying/selling his cards. As we know, when a player passes away, that could spark an interest in their cards. However, I do believe there are several other factors at hand. And many of them have already said their thoughts on the supply/demand as to why the current prices are what they are. My stance is, that Covid led to inflated prices, that just were not sustainable. Why, specifically Mays is further down than some of the others is an interesting question, I guess. We'll see in the future what the value of these cards will be. Right now, they seem to be basically where the hobby was at, before Covid.

[@mikewrobel2881]

Without considering the increase resulting from Mays' death, was the % increase for Mays higher than the % increase for those other players? Willie was only one of those you mentioned who passed away recently. Before Covid many people thought Mays cards were undervalued. I'd suggest a larger sample size. The sky isn't falling. Thumbnail a bit clickbait-y?

[@fanstream]

I believe it's the global economy dip, and housing crises --- over-valued, and now probable corrections. And I'm not sure nostalgia and working remote during Covid were the sole reasons for an uptick in card buying -- maybe these covid relief funds created discretionary spending. The Big cards still seem to be either remaining steady or going up in value. I've purchased several grails in recent auctions --- and will present them if I survive the hurricane heading this way... thanks, Graig 🙏🙏

[@MidLifeCards]

No doubt that a lot of the things you mention are factors.

[@islandcardcollector]

Good video! As a Mays collector, I too have been surprised by how much his card prices have dropped, waay bigger drop than his contemporary HOF stars

[@MidLifeCards]

It's crazy and doesn't make much sense to me.

[@RookieCardCollector123]

My first time commenting on your channel here. Loved the Mays show and analysis of his card values, I primarily collect the more obscure stuff and agree that his card prices have definitely become more affordable over the past year since the initial run up after his passing.

[@MidLifeCards]

It's a great time to be buying Mays cards.

[@JucksColletibles]

Sounds like a great time to buy if you like Willie Mays!

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree.

[@joeescalante2515]

Graig, I started investing in graded Mays card in 1998 when EBay just started. I figured a great value when compared with Mantle. The problem seems to be twofold. First it appears others picked up on this and second, he lived to be 92. During Covid grading submissions skyrocketed with mostly lower grades. It would be interesting if higher grades are keeping their values. Thanks for all you do. Joe Escalante

[@MidLifeCards]

Long term I think Mays is going to continue to climb.

[@Jeremy-VintageCards]

Hey Graig, Happy almost Friday to you! I looked briefly at some of the comments. I’m sure someone covered this, but my take on Willie Mays cards is he was the oldest living Hall of Fame and no doubt one of the best to ever hit/throw/run or field the ball! Personally, I was picking up as many of his cards before He was in the field of dreams. I think a flood of buyers did the same, now those of us that have those cards are not looking for those cards and prices are down. Have a great weekend! Coach said it’s a big soccer match! ⚽ 👍

[@MidLifeCards]

Tournament last weekend. We went 2-0-1. Lucy had two goals.

[@mrmjmiller]

The Mays card prices are insane. 60's cards as a group are tanking....People seem to be going earlier and earlier. 50's are holding fairly steady right now..

[@ACD1994]

Yeah, I agree there does seem to be more demand for the 50's cards.

[@MidLifeCards]

Agreed.

[@kennyshort9078]

Hey Craig I think these are all great buys under 50 but I think people are going for higher grades which I think you once covered in another video. Yes grades under 5 PSA or SGC people/collectors might not want them but,then I would grab them if the grade didn't matter but yes they are nice cards regardless.

[@jpmnky]

Literally the only way I was able to get Nolan Ryan, Reggie Jackson, and Fran Tarkenton rookie cards was buying PSA-4 and 5 cards.

[@MidLifeCards]

I'd grab them too!!

[@sisterraysbrother]

I'm pretty certain that your Mays theory is correct. I'm something of a capitalist and at least considered selling my '67 Topps Mays card I have. On the day he passed, I came home and saw that several Mays cards that I was watching had been purchased, but I also saw that there seemed to be a half dozen or so more copies of his '67 card that were listed within a day or two. Those who thought (incorrectly) figured that crazy money would be thrown at his cards and put the cards for auction. FWIW, I thought they'd go up, too. Kinda happy that they didn't as there are many I'd like to own.

[@MidLifeCards]

It's the only thing I can come up with that would make sense.

[@octrustattorney]

As a Mays collector over the last decade, I have not noticed much of a drop (10-20% from the peak) on the higher graded cards or early 50's cards. I think the bigger drop in his cards is where the supply is much more plentiful (lower grades). Also there is a huge variance in prices even within the same grade depending on the eye appeal. At 1957 Mays in a PSA 8 sold recently for both 9900(Goldin) and 3400(Memory Lane) within 30 days of each other. The 9900 is probably an outlier as the more recent sales have been in the 4k range. If the market in the higher graded Mays cards has dropped significantly, I have not seen it in at least the prices I have had to pay.

[@MidLifeCards]

Supply is a factor for sure.

[@Jeremy.Johnson85]

It’s crazy how far prices have fallen in just a short amount of time. I recently sent you a 1960 Mazeroski and although it was a PSA 9 off center, I thought the price was incredible at $33 given the historical significance of that particular season to his career and the eye appeal of the card. I would also think that baseball card prices overall are dropping as we switch seasons over to basketball and football but even those vintage cards have dropped a tremendous amount. I’ve seen many graded Unitas and Gifford cards below $50 recently. I think a lot of people are speculating about new talent rather than focusing on past players until they are relevant in the news.

[@gregking6175]

@@Jeremy.Johnson85 This is my exact prediction on vintage. There is an absolute flood of money going into modern cards right now. That market it’s incredibly hot in all sports. I love Graigs videos to keep up with the vintage market. This is troubling data for vintage

[@MidLifeCards]

Football are always undervalued in my eyes.

[@JenniferMedina-bg1zb]

My Mays cards aren’t down. 😂 The low grade stuff is abundant

[@vintagecollector5340]

Alot of this stuff is in existence. Cards just aren't as rare as people love to think.

[@JenniferMedina-bg1zb]

@@vintagecollector5340 correct, and a lot of the people that I’ve come across over the years that were big collectors of players like Willie Mays are gone or are nearing the end of their lives. The supply eventually ends up being recycled back into the market and most of these new, younger collectors don’t have much interest in it bc they don’t have the player/fan connection that the original collectors had.

[@MidLifeCards]

That could be part of it.

[@chrishayes4166]

As I know you're aware the vintage market has distinctly shifted to low pop rare/scarce cards with pre war/oddball being the beneficiaries of that group think/herd move. Part of it is just the education curve as all the 2020 folks learn about these things and chase the "next hot thing". But as one thing becomes hot, the prior hot thing (golden era vintage) pays the price on the otherside with lots of sellers and fewer buyers.

[@MidLifeCards]

Fair points.

[@dougcoleman2399]

Inflation is crippling people. This is happening in all hobby markets badly. Look at the secondary boat and trailer market! The people who came back into the hobby and drove it up in 2020 are starting to sell. Waaaay more sellers than buyers in the card market right now. Think downstream as well. If graded cards are showing a drastic fall less cards will be graded as a result as this continues. Then we should see some fall back in grading costs. Already some evidence of that with specials. Can’t wait for it to go back to normalcy and consistency like we saw from 2005-2018

[@andrewjackson4510]

Yes, people have to sell their cards, so they will be able to afford Kamala’s $10 a gallon gas.

[@dougcoleman2399]

@@andrewjackson4510 Komrad Kamala

[@MidLifeCards]

Inflation is certainly taking a toll on things like collecting vintage cards.

[@andrewjackson4510]

Unfortunately , Kamala will deliver another four years of inflation.

[@LetsStormTheTeaCupRide]

I have noticed this a lot of late but people who are running auctions are getting destroyed pricewise, especially in lower to mid vintage. I need to slow down my buying of late.

[@MidLifeCards]

If things are low, buying may be a good idea.

[@JeffsCardJourney]

For the prices on the Mays cards, could it be the centering? Seems like centering is such a big issue now that off centered cards are going for discounts. Just a guess.

[@ACD1994]

Not in my opinion, no. The Mays cards shown in the video are now, similarly priced to where they were before Covid inflated the market.

[@MidLifeCards]

Eye appeal has to be a factor.

[@garyi8608]

Part of the problem is many collector's like PSA over BGS/BVG and SGC. Some SGC cards can be about half of the value of the same card grade by PSA. Too much prejudice in the sports card hobby.

[@MidLifeCards]

No doubt that the preference of PSA affects values.

[@BringingTheHeat-VBC]

I notice this when bidding on high dollar SGC vs PSA. The PSA collectors are more likely to drive the prices up I ASS U ME? Must be for their registry and it usually takes just 1 more IDIOTIC bid to win sometimes. I'm just the idiot to do it ...sometimes😜

[@llamedica]

I know my sales on eBay for vintage baseball have dried up since about March and I sell only collector-grade PSA. The one exception is Nolan Ryan. I assume the market will come back at some point but it is shocking these prices you are showing. Doesn’t give me a good feeling for the near-future.

[@jonathonsantamont8527]

Your’re saying Ryan is still selling strong? That’s great!

[@MidLifeCards]

Long term, I think it'll be fine.

[@DonOlszewski-th1ir]

Graig, Good question on the Mays cards. My opinion goes to supply vs demand and the economy in general. The rare cards seem to be the only ones climbing in price. Whether it’s high grade, autographed, or just a rare card according to the population reports. Something to make it rare or scarce seems to be the cards being paid big money for. The rest are seen as common, not much interest, and can pick one up anytime.

[@MidLifeCards]

Good point about the supply.

[@joelmayer4055]

I think your theory is correct on Mays. When he passed there was a huge rush (predictably) on his cards. Those fans now have his cards. So the market is correcting. This is the downside. It will "correct" back up in the upcoming weeks/months.

[@benjaminlyng8269]

I understand it’s just a theory but it does not make sense there would be a huge rush on a player’s card when he died. I can see that with some autographs - but not Mays because he had already stopped signing.

[@vintagecollector5340]

The time to buy Mays was a decade ago. His prices actually increased when Aaron died.

[@benjaminlyng8269]

@@vintagecollector5340I wish I had a 1989 Beckett o bet some of these prices today are lower than those prices in 1989 dollars. Anyone out there have an old Beckett in the attic they can check??!!

[@joelmayer4055]

@@benjaminlyng8269 I guess I can understand it and it does make sense to me. When he died there was--prdictably--a ton of positive news coverage. People get nostalgic about watching him play (He and Ernie Banks, to me, were exemplars of looking like they were having more fun than anyone at the park). So there is an emotional rush to grab his cards (or anything else associated with him). My point is that maybe once that initial rush passed those that bought his cards in that time period were also the ones most likely to be looking out for his cards. So for a short time they removed themselves from the buyers market. I'd be surprised if these "depressed" sales continue more than a few more weeks. If it is the end of October and they are still lower than usual/expected I'll have to re-think this theory. But right now it makes as much sense as anything I've seen.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think that has to be the answer.

[@TheCardDeal]

With modern and vintage, I have learned to exclude a lot of the comps from the covid era and regardless of what happened in the past, we live in the now and if you are active in the hobby from the time you buy, grade and sell...all that matters is current comps. I have the same buying budget as years past as I do currently which means a buying opportunity if you compare it to 2022 or any other time where something was priced higher. Also note the 2 PSA 1968 All Stars you showed were extremely OC/MC. Less buyers for those as you can find them all the time. Reading some comments, I personally will not overreact. Start showing me Mays rookies 60% less and then it will be time to panic for some, but if my financial position is the same, I will still be buying within my monthly budget.

[@rw151515]

Good take!

[@MidLifeCards]

I appreciate the comment.

[@ctcards2636]

This is why when i do buy graded cards, i go for 3-5. I can get the card i want without losing bank. But i mainly collect raw, not a huge fan of grading overall.

[@MidLifeCards]

Lots of bang for your buck in that price range.

[@billyballgamesportscards]

Awesome video, Graig! I look forward to these every month. I definitely think prices have softened within the last year or so. I wish Mays' rookie card would soften by about 50%. I may be able to afford one then! 😂

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL. Me too!!

[@amihays7449]

Look at the economy 😮

[@MidLifeCards]

No doubt. I mentioned it in there.

[@dougcoleman2399]

Inflation is crippling people. This is happening in all hobby markets badly. Look at the secondary boat and trailer market! The people who came back into the hobby and drove it up in 2020 are starting to sell. Waaaay more sellers than buyers in the card market right now.

[@BringingTheHeat-VBC]

It's the beginning of the end for ole Wille. As always, Thanks for your analysis on the card market. Unfortunately, I'm in the Moonshot" phase of my collection. This will benefit any new Vintage collectors which can't be bad. Hopefully, the hobby takes notice and I can sneak in a bargain or 2 along the way. Especially, since I'm picking up a fair amount of "1's" & "2's with low eye appeal these days. Everything else seems out of my range or is being eaten up at higher prices than it did previously.

[@vintagecollector5340]

I'd say it's just the economy, accompanied with a ton of supply. Things aren't getting any cheaper, and Mays cards aren't hard to find. Same can be said for Mantle or any others. If for whatever reason, the market suddenly became oversaturated with Mantle cards of all grades and conditions, his prices would also likely decline.

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL

[@BringingTheHeat-VBC]

@@vintagecollector5340 agreed.

[@markstein1916]

Supply and demand. In this crappy inflationary economy, I’m surprised these prices aren’t down even more. If it’s a choice between food, shelter, home heating or cards, you can be certain that card prices will drop. Rare cards will retain their value, but these are all Uber-common. If you go to a show, you’ll see multiples of these cards in every booth. I’m actually surprised they sell as many as they do.

[@MidLifeCards]

Fair points.

[@TJ_Is_Online]

Interesting video Graig. I see things slightly differently w/ Mays, Clemente, etc. Nice eye appeal cards seem to be doing “ok”. The lower eye appeal / value buys are the ones with steeper declines. Note: I do see Mantle price decline greater across the board (compared to other high profile players) except high eye appeal / high grade ones.

[@MidLifeCards]

No doubt that part of the issue is the increased demand for eye appeal in cards.

[@oarancards4443]

cards that i was buying for 40 50 dollars are a tuff fsell gotta give them away//starting to look like horrible buys ,,terrible market

[@MidLifeCards]

Time will tell and be interesting.

[@Jimmycardcollector]

I don’t think it’s Mays cards flooding the market after his death. I did notice all or almost all the cards were in auctions. Is that where the deals are now? It would be interesting to see if there are mantle cards also drifting lower. Maybe the market is finally getting to its true steady state after the pandemic bubble.

[@MidLifeCards]

I have a video coming out Friday that looks into a variety of players. Stay tuned.

[@Jimmycardcollector]

@@MidLifeCards Thanks Graig, that would be eye opening one way or the other. As always, I will be looking forward to it! It will certainly generate a community “discussion.”

[@Martin-c8f4t]

I think that pretty much all collectibles which I have followed on EBAY lately - Cards/Comics/Watches/Coins - have, unequivocally, come down in price. Of course, the economy - especially as pertaining to the high cost of living (on staple products, mainly) which the average American Family has been wrestling with for several years now - is such that many Collectors of said items, obviously, are selling off their collections; just to put food on the table. Inflation - primarily when it has hit the insane levels that we have to deal with, today - definitely puts a hold on the amount of discretionary income available; in regards to shelling out money on non-essential items.

[@MidLifeCards]

I tend to agree. It'll be interesting to see what a new administration does.

[@neilmarquardt2049]

I do think it’s notable that most of the cards that you cite are in SGC or something other than PSA. Have the price declines in Mays or other HOFers been as dramatic with higher-grade examples in PSA holders?

[@MidLifeCards]

My search includes both....and I agree that SGC cards come up in lower prices more often. I have a full dive into comparing the two that should post on Friday.

[@craigs.t.3321]

Comparing prices to the anomaly bubble of 2022 is pretty pointless imo… those insane prices do not make the current 60% down sales “bargains”. All it does is make the 2022 sales look absolutely foolish - it doesn’t mean the lower 2024 sales are great deals.

[@MidLifeCards]

I appreciate the feedback. To me, when Mays values have dropped MUCH more than other HOFers, it certainly means something. But, that's just me.

[@davelachey8118]

Interesting information. I do think the supply increased after Mays passing. And there’s probably other factors including the general issues with the economy driving some increased selling. I believe the Mays situation is a point in time anomaly but I also believe many of the other players you mentioned just don’t have the same appeal in the hobby. For example, Morgan’s RC has always been undervalued in my opinion considering his career.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think supply jumped and the economy dumping is a big part of it. Totally agree.

[@mywoodlakememories3011]

There are well over 1M cards being graded every month. That's a lot of new slabs entering the market. I don't have the vintage breakdown but I'm sure its significant. You're seeing lots of slabs selling at or below the cost of getting those cards graded.

[@MidLifeCards]

I know that an overwhelming majority of the cards being graded are modern. But, I think you make a great point. Populations are rising.

[@dougcoleman2399]

The guy who paid $33K for the Broadway Joe will regret that in a decade.

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL.

[@bogeytmf]

Has the pop report for these cards gone up in any meaningful way?

[@MidLifeCards]

That's a good question.

[@Franco1803]

Many collectors have seen the economy change and potential free falls. I know that I started the year saving for that “dream” card, but I can’t justify pulling the trigger. Buying opportunities are there, but at what expense?

[@MidLifeCards]

I've been trying to save at least some of my budget.

[@cryptonite8495]

No doubt Mays prices have declined significantly since the 2021-22 Bubble. But has he declined more than Aaron, Mantle, Clemente, etc.? Or modern cards? I don't know, I'm curious if it's really about Willie. Also curious about today's prices vs. pre-Bubble. Wasn'tt 2022 an unnatural spike, so that a return to normalcy seems like a "crash"? You may be quite right that what we are seeing now is below what was normal in 2020, but is Mays worse than Aaron? I was quite surprised when I came across a newly listed 1962 Topps Mays base card PSA 3 (looked better) for $49 OBO. I did not take time to haggle, I just bought it because I didn't think it would last another 10 minutes. This was about a month after his passing. Flooded market? You'd think sellers would take note and hold back their Mays cards for better prices later.

[@MidLifeCards]

Yeah....nobody knows for sure.

[@jamesmcferran4938]

It appears to me with the dramatic fall in vintage card prices coupled with the high grading fees of PSA and SGC, not to mention more stringent grades in the last several years, the grading volumes for vintage cards should be dropping simultaneously and significantly. Something has to give if PSA specifically wants to retain their past performance and therefore profitability!

[@MidLifeCards]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[@BattsOtt]

First awesome video coverage but in my honest seasoned opinion is that more of f2fg hw vintage cards that's been sitting in private collections of older collectors and those who have inherited them from family estates have been bringing many cards to market after getting them graded has caused less demand and more supply than ever so with that the cards are not as hard to find as they was now high grades of these cards will retain demand like cards grading 7 or higher and will grow in value and then eventually the lower graded cards will see an upswing in value but when that will happen nobody can fully predict

[@MidLifeCards]

More cards entering the market may very well be part of it. I guess I just don't understand why it seems to be affecting Mays cards more than others (or at least as a greater percentage drop for Mays)

[@BattsOtt]

@@MidLifeCards my friend there is other reasons that would affect his card values that would no it be very proper to state here but as a semi knowledgeable person on his cards in particular and the reasons his cards are not doin well I would welcome a conversation on this if you would like and the information you would learn would shock you but anyways thanks for your reply and great content as always

[@i.w.d.liquidatorsinc.8914]

Same thing for his autographs... Yes, I bought raw (100% good) but in the last 60 days I've purchased signed photos and cachets for as little as $20, and signed books for as little as $40.... Ridiculous !! Part of it is I think there was a HUGE premium built in prior to his passing.... and after his passing, people flooded the market. And as to auto's specifically, the other part of it there is a colossal amount of fakes out there, which helped destroy the market.

[@MidLifeCards]

Wow. That's wild.

[@bobpace4334]

The problem is the grading, we didn't have that before. All the cards are low grades, people are looking for tens

[@MidLifeCards]

What about the people that can't afford 10s?

[@JPW-336]

Why would someone want low grade SGC holder cards from the 60’s ?

[@50-Fifty-Vintage]

Because people want to complete their collections or sets or player runs and don’t want to spend a fortune and buy the card not the holder they’re in, I’m guessing.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think some people like having the card, and don't need a high grade example.

[@ericlindenmuth7517]

Graig, have the Mays rookies come down? What about a autographed version?

[@MidLifeCards]

Honestly, I'm not sure. I wasn't planning on doing a full Mays analysis. I just noticed these ones when doing an under $50 video. I was shocked.

[@evanfraser64]

Serious question-I don’t know the answer. Have Mays (and other) PSA 8s gone down in value similarly. Pre-2020, I always PSA 8 investment quality-and expected those cards to slowly go up, and less than PSA 8 as collector quality, and maybe those don’t go up as frequently. Just to be clear, I’m talking about 1960s and 1970s-not 1950s

[@MidLifeCards]

To be honest, I didn't look into that. I was simply blown away at how many cool cards were going as cheap as they were of Willie.

[@mangobango6970]

I think flippers far outweigh the collectors these days, and most flippers are only interested in big money modern cards. Just my opinion.

[@ACD1994]

Mostly agree. There are very few cards, which I would call ''investment.'' Cards. It's possible to make a really good profit on a card, but timing the market is something most of just can not do. Whether that's modern or vintage.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think you're right.

[@timkauffman6311]

Liked your video I am so scared to send my boyhood cards in not because of price .

[@MidLifeCards]

I get that. Onsite grading has perks.

[@XZOL445]

I had to pause to add this. The Bob Gibson at 7:13. What in the? That's the price for one of those dumpy Topps Chrome blasters, that 99% of the time yields nothing. Crazy.

[@ACD1994]

😅

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree!!

[@chadholt1171]

I’ve been tracking the average eBay sale price for 113 Baseball and Football cards. I’ve noticed that HOF rookie cards, high grade HOF cards, and Mantle cards are the the only cards produced in the 1960’s that consistently increase in value month to month. Everything else is trending down or not selling at all. I have some theories on what’s going on. I think a lot of the short term investors have quit buying these cards and the long term investors are selling to try and recover as much money as possible. I also think that a lot of collectors have been squeezed out by the lousy economy and the investor inflated prices. I think it’s a good time to buy the cards on your 1960’s list.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think that's very interesting and says a lot about where collecting is going.

[@jasonconte2674]

I think the higher graded cards of Mays are down closer to 20% versus 50% on the lower graded ones. There’s just too many lower graded ones that have flooded the market with so many cards getting graded the last few years.

[@MidLifeCards]

Could be. No question.

[@brentrichardsbaseballcards]

Crazy low Mays stuff! But boy would I love to have that Rose ❤️

[@MidLifeCards]

It's a beauty!!

[@bagwell78]

With thr bargain bin cards in the video, the low prices are due to the cards either being lower grade, or being AS or leader cards, which just don't get a lot of hobby love. With the lower graded cards, even with the Mount Rushmore players, there is just an abundance of supply. Go to any larger card show and you'll find dozens and dozens 65 Mays Topps in the 3-5 range. Also, With the 68 Mays for example, not only was it a lower grade, but this is a 1968 card....his rookie year was 51....you are talking about a card from the end of his career. So it's a number of factors.

[@ACD1994]

Fair points. It kind of stinks the hobby- is that way. But it does make great players later day playing cards affordable, for the average Joe like myself.

[@bagwell78]

I love the 60s leaders cards. Happy to pick up even 7s and 8s for $50-70

[@MidLifeCards]

Lower grades do some to be taking a beating more than others.

[@MikelineTV]

Why not. I picked up almost 100 unique cards of him (non-graded cards) on ebay in 2024 just before his passing. As with the slabbed cards those values continue to drop as thousands of collectors like you purchases them thus flooding the market of the same card(s) increasing the population.

[@MidLifeCards]

Good call.

[@NLMDOCUMENTARY]

notice how majority of the cards mentioned were in SGC slabs.

[@MidLifeCards]

It does seem like more SGC slabs slip through the cracks than PSA slabs.

[@Brad-mj3tg]

No idea why - on the Mays crash maybe I can get the ‘51 and ‘52 B and his ‘52 T if he goes out of favor! Only need 4 Mays mainstream cards - but 3 of them are pricey!! Duke is criminally underpriced - his Bowman cards are high on my list to get next. That Carew AS in an 8 is crazy. I know I spent close to $100 for one at the peak. This is why all the people foregoing the small cards makes no sense to me. A great high grade collection can be built up of the lesser HOFers for a reasonable price and a mid-grade representation of the greats can be as well.

[@MidLifeCards]

Yeah...maybe it's collectors consolidating?

[@stevegallo8483]

I think your theory on the drop in the prices of Mays cards is a real possibility. I believe a lot of people tried to cash in on Mays cards after his passing.

[@MidLifeCards]

I really think it could be the flooding of the market.

[@timelesscardboard]

The hobby is drowning in these cards.

[@MidLifeCards]

Supply still climbing I guess.

[@ACollectorsDream]

Great video, time to buy some vintage

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree!!

[@suzie9874]

All the new people in the market seem to only want 2 things. New cards of players that is playing today. And only the rookie cards of said players. And "color" I see countless videos of the "ripping" packs and only looking at the borders of the pack of cards. If it doesnt have "color" they toss the pack to the side as a wasted pack. None of the new blood in sports cards seem interested in the set. Just the "chase" cards. And it is sickening. As it has drove many people out of todays market. Myself included.

[@ACD1994]

This sounds similar to some of the other comments I've been reading on this video. Now I feel a little sad, but you and the others make a fair and valid point. There are definitely some aspects of the hobby I don't really recognize. When there are 14 year olds having thousands of dollar cards, that could be a problem. Of course, they will inevitably lose money, and I am not so sure what that says about the future of our hobby, when teenagers are spending, and gambling. Like adults.

[@suzie9874]

@@ACD1994 Everyone should buy what they like. But as a result of this. It is forcing prices on boxes of cards to sky rocket. I was watching a video on sports card investors just now, after i made the OG post. The main topic. Box pricing is out of control. I think it was in the comments on this channel on a post i made before. About how a Joe Burrows (anything) could sell for more than a Montana rookie. One person commented on Well Burrows is still playing and the box cost way more than it did in 1981. That got me to thinking. If Topps had made a 1 of 1 reprint of Mickey Mantle and inserted it into a product and charged 10 grand for the boxes. Should that card be worth more than the 1952 Topps ????

[@ACD1994]

@@suzie9874 Funny, you should mention the Mantle reprints. I remember looking at some on eBay. There are so many of them, but the '52 Topps reprints. Some of them sold for a thousand or may have been more than a thousand. I guess that's how the hobby is. I try not to make sense of it, lol.

[@MidLifeCards]

Possibly.... But some high end vintage cards have also gone up a lot as well.

[@marshallkahn3342]

Good for collectors bad for flippers

[@MidLifeCards]

True.

[@danleal9711]

Wish I had seen that 69 Unitas for sale, $40 is way under market value

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree. It was a beauty.

[@mikewrobel2881]

But Graig..... would you be surprised to find these cards sell ungraded for $15-$20 less (the cost of grading)?

[@MidLifeCards]

Yes, I would be.

[@mikewrobel2881]

@@MidLifeCards Ok, you probably know better than I. I'm not in the market for '60s cards.

[@mikewrobel2881]

Of course prices are down 40% compared to 2022. Prices were flat from 2000-2020.

[@ACD1994]

Yes. The prices of most of the cards featured in the video are similar to what they were before Covid.

[@MidLifeCards]

Appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment.

[@mikewrobel2881]

@@MidLifeCards Thanks, I appreciate you as well!

[@juhosevic]

I foresee a continual/massive decline in low to mid grade vintage. The new entrants into the hobby have a different mindset of flipping vs collecting. I hear boomers say vintage is safe, history repeats etc.. but the hobby is different now. I hope I’m wrong, but low to mid grade vintage, even rare food issues will continue to fall in price. Rare junk wax and rare 90s inserts/parallels have been hot

[@MidLifeCards]

It's certainly possible.

[@rw151515]

IMO collectors preferences, as demonstrated through online content and market behavior, have changed a lot the last couple of years. Modern collectors focus on numbered cards, rare inserts and parallels with the PSA10 base card hype a thing of the past. Vintage collectors focusing on rarity/scarcity, the “grails”, or the super high eye appeal under graded stuff. The commodity cards gobbled up by new pandemic era entrants are just not much in demand. Those new entrants have likely either left or become more sophisticated in their buying. Mays I’m sure spiked from speculation buying in anticipation of his ultimate passing. In that time though, the market cooled and matured. I doubt rare and high end Mays cards have dipped much

[@ACD1994]

Keep in mind KZbin is, not a complete representation of the market. There are plenty of people who are viewers and commenters but, don't post videos on KZbin. We don't know if their buying and selling habits are the same or different from those we watch on here and other social media sites.

[@rw151515]

@@ACD1994 very true. I’m including observations of content on podcast, instagram, Twitter and Facebook card groups as well. Obviously there is no way of knowing the entire population behavior, but using these as a sample is a decent indication.

[@MidLifeCards]

I'll be so curious to see how the numbered card thing plays out.

[@rw151515]

@@MidLifeCards it will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out. It’s not the lane I run in but there’s a lot of content these days focused on it. I’ve been on the sidelines since June trying to figure out where my collecting takes me. Everything that interests me seems to be a bit out of reach right now. As much as I miss mail days I figure it’s best to wait for some direction and tailwinds rather than buying something I’m not happy with. What I appreciate about your show is that you address the decision points collectors

[@rw151515]

Face every day. Thanks for the great content

[@chrisolivo6591]

These are all non-rookie cards, as i would have no expectations of them ever really going up in value. These are great cards for collectors, but the masses in the hobby gravitate to rookie cards and 2nd/3rd year cards of players who have super expensive rookie cards.

[@ACD1994]

Agreed. Though there are Aaron, Clemente and Mays player collectors, who want their complete Topps run. I think PSA set registry has something to do it with it too, though. For most of the cards featured in the video. The prices are similar to the pre-Covid prices. I don't know if they are good buys or not. Hopefully, the collectors that are interested do so, because they genuinely like the cards. I don't anticipate the prices going back to where it was during Covid. But who knows.

[@MidLifeCards]

Agreed that premium cards are likely less affected.

[@blixcards]

It's not just Mays. Two things thing these comp videos continuously prove are if you want to lose maximum value as a seller/dealer/consignor - you sell at auction. If you want to find maximum value on iconic player's cards you wait to buy them... at auction. Far too many bidding options these days, so I put no value whatsoever in auction-realized prices anymore. I refuse to use any auction as a comp unless it's a highly credible & publicized auctioneer and the sale was 100% approved and legitimate... and that's only on highly unique items that were announced well in advance, if not months. If the right (multiple...) buyers all know about the card well in advance and all have the cash at the same time it can get competitive and highest prices can be realized. But everyday stuff at lower end grades is constantly going for well under it's true value for simply not being seen by enough Mays or Aaron bidders on that one particular day. This and your other videos prove it's not even worth using the biggest consignors for non-Rookie base cards or more common type cards. Like we all say, these 1950's and 1960's cards are not rare - at all. Now that everyone is grading, PSA/SGC 4-5's and lower are not going to hold value as well as the pops increase. And they will increase in the 3-5 range forever. Auctions are great for buyers, sellers need to be patient with their BIN's or they'll keep taking the L. Crazy to me is $33K for ANY Namath card. His career highlight with me will always be him blatantly hitting on Suzy Kolber on Live TV telling her "you're sooo pretty...." He was clearly drunk... 2001-ish I believe?

[@ACD1994]

Preach on it, Ben! I buy the lower and mid grade vintage because it is what I like, and can afford. Both important factors. I think if anyone bought these cards at the 2022 prices, will be disappointed knowing (or maybe not knowing) those were very inflated prices. If I was an ''investor'' or an investor asked me, what cards should they buy if they want to make a profit. Of course, there are very few guarantees, I wouldn't recommend the ones in this video. Maybe not even the ''moon shots.''

[@blixcards]

@@ACD1994 This is all great for you, Andrew! From my end there are a ton of cards I don't own because I can't afford them as nice as I want them. But there are also certain RCs even in low grade that I would never consider buying without having millions to spend because I think they're overpriced. Maybe now is when 6's and higher in the 1960's and earlier start to separate from the lower grades? I'd have to dive into some pop-report data to research any of that but it seems reasonable. I'm very curious what the next trend is in vintage because it seems like flagship Topps playing days cards are hitting a wall in lower grade.

[@ACD1994]

@@blixcards If you go to the PSA web site. They have some information as to what the prices of cards were sold for dating back to 2016. One of the examples in this video was a 1966 Topps Willie Mays SGC 3, which sold for $30. In 2019. Before Covid, that was pretty much the value of a PSA 3 Mays. So either there's less demand for that card now, post Covid. Or the prices which I believe were well over inflated a few years ago. Due to Covid. Could be a factor of both variables. Some collectors who were not around 5 or 6 years ago will watch this video, and feel, like, these are great prices, but in reality it's pretty much just going back to where it was. However, I would much rather buy a Mays '66 Topps in a 3 for $30 than the covid prices, that was nearly tripled. I feel bad for those people. We all learn lessons.

[@MidLifeCards]

No doubt. Auction seems to be the way to go.

[@blixcards]

@@MidLifeCards IF, and only if you are buying! Even when I am buying or negotiating, I never use auctions as comps with sellers unless they are in the ballpark of recent BIN sales. So many auctions are anomalies now, even at the bigger houses. Too much supply for demand but the crafty guys can make a decent margin sniping and re-selling at more realistic values. I think people are flipping-vintage just like ultra-modern - but lower-key.

[@boristheamerican2938]

Easy, he died. Everyone who wanted something bad enough bought near the top, now all thats left are a glut of people desperate to unload.

[@MidLifeCards]

I think that's part of it.

[@baldurathustrayggdrasil2420]

Simple and obvious answer. It is Because Mantle was the superior specimen. Mantle was the stronger, faster, and more electric athlete. This is why his peak years were so much better than the peak years of Mays.

[@MidLifeCards]

Wow. That's a big statement!!

[@jamesmcferran4938]

Enjoying this topic but it is leaving me a bit depressed about the future of the vintage card market. Can you possibly focus on the vintage cards that have achieved the best upside on a new podcast. Also WHY this is occurring. There are so many nuances and niches, instead of focusing on the negatives of much cheaper prices, let’s find and focus on the good news of the hobby. There simply have to be cards that are undervalued and will appreciate going forward. But we need some of your expert analysis with respect to the economics of our hobby as things have become much more volatile in terms of pricing, yet the enthusiasm at the National was unprecedented.

[@MidLifeCards]

Long term collectors will be fine.

[@paulnovak5574]

Could be the fact that you compared the sale of a PSA 3 1961 to 3 SGC 5’s from 2021-2022. Of course when you bump up two whole grades the cards will sell for more. Annoying you aren’t comparing apples to apples

[@MidLifeCards]

If I accidentally compared different grades, that's my mistake. I'm not aware that I did that. If I did, I suppose that's the type of mistake that happens at times when producing as much content as I do, without any sort of editor or help. Sorry you found it annoying.

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

My eyes are cross eyed from all those off centered cards 😂😂😂. Im just playing but also the hobby and collectors are realizing how common OC vintage cards are. If you did this experiment with dead and i mean dead centered same grade today vs a few years ago the cards would be very close and in most cases higher today than the past. The problem is it would take you 2 months to find comparable examples. Im not like you as far as researching goes I am basing this the only way I do things and that is through my experience with selling some incredible examples in low grade that I purchased during the 2022 peak and sold them this past year. My thoughts anyways and I do appreciate you doing these videos and the work you put in on them but I had to share my thoughts since you asked 😜👊🤙🤙

[@ACD1994]

Maybe you should create a website where you, list all of the different centered card prices. Though that would be a lot of time, energy and efforts. See you in the live-stream. I'll send a report card; how you did ranking the Topps designs, later. 😉

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

@@ACD1994 ha ha ha ya i love projects like that 🤣🤣🤣. See you later Andrew 👊👊

[@MidLifeCards]

Double D keeps beating that drum.

[@yycvintagecards]

I love the video and the analysis, but I think you are jumping to the conclusion that Mays is down 50-60% based on statistically insignificant data. Example.. the 1966 Topps Mays for $30 was only one sale. When I look on 130point for recent auctions, I see sales of $69, $48, $49, $50, $76. In fact, I can't even find the $30 sale listed. There are several other BIN sales for even higher. Anyway, point is that we can't judge the market based on one anomalous low sale that could have been influenced by other factors like the listing quality, selling platform, eye appeal, etc. Certainly Mays cards are down, but I hesitate to say that it's 50% down. Someone got a great $30 steal, but I think I'd still be happy to pick up the card at $50-60. Despite this friendly criticism, I love your content.

[@yycvintagecards]

Also interesting to note that the lowest recent auction sales of this card are on Fanatics Collect platform and the higher ones are from eBay. This might be worth a deeper dive also.

[@MidLifeCards]

You may be right. I was simply shocked when I saw some of the prices well under $50

[@gregking6175]

Unfortunately, I think vintage card value will continue to get weaker. It’s a great time to buy if you want to collect them. But I see no upside in vintage. I don’t know if new future collectors will be historians about that game like today’s older collectors.

[@johnpersechini4951]

Why do people still collect cards like t206 still then?

[@gregking6175]

@@johnpersechini4951 I live with a young collector (son). Him and his friends love shiny numbered autographed parallels. Also, Set collecting is not a growing hobby. I just don’t see this young generation 20-30 years from now buying Mays, Ford, Aaron, etc. Vintage will have some value, But there will be less buyers for it in the future. More supply than demand….prices will go down. Just a BOLD Prediction….

[@ACD1994]

@@johnpersechini4951 I think there's a perception that t206 are rare and scarce cards. I mean obviously some are. But if you go to any big card show or online auction house. There are t206 cards available. So I would say they are some similarities with pre-war and vintage. The lower end is affordable. And the high end is, out out of most collectors budget. I try to buy the middle ground of low-and high but, it is difficult sometimes. Honestly, I like seeing the prices in the video. The Covid extremes got way out of hand.

[@gregking6175]

@@johnpersechini4951 The Collectors dropping thousands of dollars on T206 card will one day stop buying them, age, other priorities end of life. The question to ask, will new buyers move in to push those prices up or even keep prices at par? I don’t see it.

[@MidLifeCards]

It's possible...but that's been said for decades and hasn't really happened to date.

[@TheCardDeal]

Time 2 buy!

[@MidLifeCards]

no doubt.

[@NelsonVaughn1]

This hobby is driven on hype and demand. Inactive players are only going to drop in price over time. 99 percent of vintage cards are not for people who want to make money.

[@sisterraysbrother]

I think I might be in agreement on your last sentence, but it's active players whose values are going to drop in time - when that hype and speculation on the heights that a player's career will reach dies down. In other words, I'd take my chances w/ a second year Bob Gibson or a Gale Sayers card in a 6 vs. an Elly De La Cruz for the long haul. I'd think that everyone sensible would.

[@MidLifeCards]

Vintage is a slow climb. Dips along the way, but also climbs.

[@Tydrix]

This guy is comparing prices to late 2021 to mid 2022. Of course prices are down. Anyone who knows the market (I'm not one of them cause I'm a causal and only jumped back in after 20+ years to only pick up my childhood faves) should be aware of the covid price boom in 2021. Since 2021, the prices of cards are falling back to somewhat "normal".

[@MidLifeCards]

I specifically talked about that in the video. I also specifically talked about it in the pinned comment that I posted.

[@Tydrix]

@@MidLifeCards Didn't look at your comments. Also for lead leader, older yeared player cards, and in low grade I wouldn't expect the cards to be much. Prices seem fair to me.

[@jamesmcferran4938]

I deleted my earlier post. No more political commentary from me!!!

[@sisterraysbrother]

much respect, friend. I know that you and I could share a drink and enjoy a ballgame together!

[@ACD1994]

MidLife Nation is all about the positive vibes.

[@MidLifeCards]

All good.