Why Aren’t More “Normal” People Achieving FIRE?

[@anthonyuzum]

Please continue with the FIRE content because most of us come here for this. There are lots of podcasts that cover traditional finance and some are great too like the Moneyguys. I’m FI but I keep working because I like my job and don’t want my children to see me do nothing for years. I still enjoy all the FIRE stories & each guest is different in their approach. Please keep up the good work 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾.

[@rogeliofernandez6266]

Please continue with FIRE content! If anything id like more stories of people in their 30’s-40’s achieving fire and going over their live style now(travel, health, slow peaceful morning and their individual plans 4% years worth of high yields ect).

[@KeeptheChange41]

Sorry, really not trying to hijack this thread but i appreciate you both acknowleging that not all people are in ideal situation for FIRE . Great vid thank you.

[@nomadicvibesofelle]

I am 3 years into my F.I.R.E. journey. Your content keeps me motivated.

[@ncmay1112]

Stay the course!

[@kdp04e]

I'm glad (though not surprised) that you all decided to continue with your FI-first content! It's uniquely you and you're very good at presenting it in fresh ways on a regular basis. I started on BiggerPockets because my family got into real estate. Then I came here for the FI content and got really excited! That led me to more traditional personal finance content to building a stronger foundation for the rest. It's all connected. One just builds on the next. Keep up the great work! We're all very grateful for what you do. ❤

[@ParkDari]

Just stay with fire don’t dilute your uniqueness

[@shecanbudget1170]

Keep the main theme of FIRE. This is why I watch the channel & draw inspiration from it. Maybe you could look at FIRE stories from around the world, not just USA natives? Maybe, if he's willing, Mark could act as a case study of how it's possible to achieve FIRE with such circumstances? Start from the basics & help him grow, build & stack options along the way? It could be a 'work in progress' case study that many low income people could relate to, but it would also give you material for episodes going forward? I'm in the UK, a single parent working full time, no maintenance & living in an area that's quite expensive. I don't have a second job (because I'm doing an apprenticeship) but I'm on track to achieve FIRE within 3 years. I'm proof that it's possible!!

[@crystalg81]

The FIRE content is what I appreciate from your channel. I'm inspired by the various success and growth stories, and share your videos with others. I don't think the solution is to change your FIRE focus to reach a different audience, but rather find the stories that can speak to your diverse audience.

[@ParkDari]

My suggestion for other people just getting started just go to Dave Ramsey. He can take a person from one dollar to financial independence which will allow them to then go hard-core fire movement.

[@bagusanindityo7742]

Stay the courseeeee😀😀 the usual personal finance had been captured by others. Been listening to you for the last 4 years..and doesn't plan to stop.

[@TheNoobTker]

Overall a good discussion, you guys touched on trade offs a few times and that’s the major underlying theme of biggerpockets vs people in the middle class trap. It’s just impossible to hit fire early when spending every dollar you make on an average salary, it’s just math. Traditional retirement is going to fit for so many people.

[@deedeeschaefer645]

Thanks for the shout out to Wisconsin!!! Woot! Woot! I am a “normal” person but I can still dream of fire. I make financial adjustments based on what I am learning even if I can’t achieve fire status. I still find it beneficial. Keep it up!

[@jimv77]

I've noticed for the past 20 years that most of the Normal People around me have short term goals, materialistic and are comparative. Even if they have a high dual income, they'll choose a high expense lifestyle. Not gonna work...and they always will have an excuse.

[@nrivera567]

Continue with the FIRE content! Thank you for acknowledging the comment from the other listener and talking about it 👏🏻

[@Sharelle_Johnson]

Love the show and appreciate the content as it brings a shift of perspective and exposure to the general middle class and helps to show the options and choices available. For those just starting out looking to get a good foundation of personal finance experts like Bob Lotich from Seedtime is excellent!

[@Michael-wr1yy]

Keep doing what your doing, its great content and what I love about the concept of FIRE, you get there at your own pace

[@amy2284]

For Mark- he has to do more drastic things to break that log jam. We moved out of expensive places twice. It’s a mindset shift. But, financial peace or fire is not easy. For your podcast: I feel that if you change your focus - you will water down your message The opposite of success is not failure It’s good enough (lots of channels out there for that as you said) Really that’s “do normal “ Normal is broke or not financially at peace

[@MikeAllaway]

I enjoy the podcast because it revolves so heavily around FIRE. There's far fewer out there that do this, whereas there's an abundance of general personal finance podcasts and resources. Whenever you specialise in one area by its nature it means you'll be excluding lots of people, but it also means you're increasing your value to the audience that this podcast attracts and has built up over the years. Stay loyal to yourself, your product, and your audience.

[@scotttrench4169]

Thanks, Mike! That's I think what we decided. We hope others get value from this too, but as a byproduct of FIRE driven content.

[@4fb182]

12:20 - Honestly, I had a goal of traditional FIRE. But influenced by EconoMe and the Fioneers I see the combo of CoastFI and FU money as the new FI goal. I still want to work (and save money, for that matter), but want the ability to take chances in work (self-employment, career changes) , which you don't need $1.5m-$2.5m to do.

[@CessnaPilot99]

Keep the fire theme with early retirement!

[@Exploring_Adventures]

Definitely DO NOT change. I listen to you because you’re not Dave Ramsey.

[@jimram295]

I love what you guys are doing! It’s cool to hear about the different ways & people are becoming independently free. The girl that came out of college with 50k+ in savings was awesome and encouraging. Keep up the great work!!!

[@michaelharrington1431]

The only difference between FIRE and FI Normal is the rate at which you get to FI. The principles to achieve both are the same (grow income, live within your means, save methodically, etc) and the concepts taught on this show can help anyone achieve FI at whatever pace they choose. Keep it up guys!

[@frankfff1665]

I salute you both my wife and I have been in the journey to financial independence thanks to you guys and your podcast to be very honest. It took us two years to wake up and do this. We are in our early 40s and 50s and we have been able to be become debt-free and on our way to become early retire, weare doing great investments is going to give us a great return and be able to stop our full-time jobs

[@HermanBerkley]

Success is not built on success. It's built on failure, It's built on frustration. it's built on fear that you have to overcome. I pray that anyone who reads this will be successful in Life

[@CarrollGomez-u5o]

My advice to everyone is that saving is great but investment is the key to be successful imagine investing $8,000 and received $42,700.

[@sparklemotion86]

A scammer was the first one to comment on this video 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 and then 16 more scammers commented on it 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 why can't people achieve fire ? Because people are poor and the cost of living is high. Very rarely do they have someone of a low income interviewed on here. The last low income person on here that I saw was given a job by his father-in-law which doubled his income. we don't all have that advantage!

[@BrennenWaldron]

I think based on this question in the comments made in the episode, what would you guys think about doing a series of “medium income, FIRE route”. I agree with other commentators that you should stay the course with FI content, but I do feel that the show often lacks individuals who are making the median income in America, but are seeking ways to achieve financial independence. For example, is it possible to retire early with a medium household income with medium household expenses. This would be a very interesting series to hopefully LAUNCH new listening into an articulated course

[@scotttrench4169]

Brennan - We have a lot of shows that highlight journeys that BEGIN with a median income. But, few FIRE journeys END with the person earning a median income (outside of teachers/military/etc. where pensions play a role). This is because I believe there is a high correlation / causal relationship between the skillset and discipline needed to accumulate a $1M net worth on a median income and the ability to realize income generating opportunities in the marketplace. Not many median income earners manage a workplace budget of $1M or more, and the person capable of accumulating $1M in personal wealth may be more than capable of effectively managing people/assets for an employer worth more than $1M.

[@BrennenWaldron]

@@scotttrench4169 Hey Scott, thanks for the reply! You raise a very good point and I agree you have many individuals who start with "average" circumstances. I may have misspoke there and should have clarified the individual is an average earner through out their entire FIRE journey. Do you think the average household (average through out their career) can achieve FIRE through smart investing and moderate living? Obviously young children, spousal income, and geographic locations play a huge variable. I know for me, I live in a Dayton, Ohio. Family of 4 (Fulltime, part time spouse, two young children). 115K annual income. We are comfortable at 50-30-20. Our "20" goes towards our 4 rental units and Roth. I have learned my ways primarily from BP, so of course BP can speaks to the "normal" income household. I think Dave Ramsey speaks well to the "average" American, but sometimes lacks creativity and FIRE flavor that BP has offered me. What I would love to hear, (and maybe its a curation of past episodes) is what does a an average income household do to achieve FIRE if average income is all that in with in their skillset set and/or location?

[@terid6708]

For me, I'm working toward Financial Independence. I have a rental property and have tried to "budget" for over 10 years, starting with the FIRE movement, then YNAB, and now NerdWallet. I knew I made enough income but I always ended up broke and sweating the next vacancy. Today I'm building up my savings better than ever before, and the tenants are staying a little more stable, I finally hired a property manager, so I could focus more on the finances. I keep fine-tuning everything and every time I do, my investments provide a little more income. Seems the videos I'm watching teach me just a little bit more each time. I started unable to save anything and am up to saving, early mortgage payments, investing in stocks, and playing a little with Crypto is just over 50% of my income. I keep watching and learning and doing just a little bit better. Would love more input from you about financial independence, not necessarily early retirement.

[@marshachilds9445]

Stay the course please!!!! 😊

[@0okleinemauso0]

Please stay here with the Fire Content. How about a second Channel like „little Pockets Money“ where it’s more about the dailY things

[@highbrass3749]

Stay with FIRE but divert most of the content from Real Estate to some other investment strategy. Real Estate has become unaffordable for many. Just my two cents.

[@saynay333]

Agreed. I think this is why people shy away from FIRE. Depending on where you want or need to live, buying into real estate at these prices makes it feel impossible.

[@annjean8709]

Agreed.

[@susanneowens7616]

My original path was FIRE but never seems like we start new projects and goals. I am soon to be 54. If we would stop achieving we could be FIRE. I don’t think this show is exclusive to Retiring Early. Once you achieve FI the choice is yours!

[@Uplift3704]

The popular FIRE bloggers gave up a lot to reach FIRE. It's mindset shift and must are not willing to make the sacrifice. My husband wants to FIRE but not willing to make the sacrifice.

[@CALIRedHood]

I think you guys create great content no matter the subject.

[@KittKattBarr222]

People tend to want to succeed without changing anything. I sit and work on budgets with people and I hear it time and again. People want the result of change without any actual change. In order for big financial chances to happen, a big shift has to happen somehow. It's sad, but most people are not willing to do what it takes to get where they want to go.

[@ncmay1112]

AGREE!

[@nevertoolate8589]

And that’s true in many aspects of life not just finance.

[@KittKattBarr222]

@@nevertoolate8589 Yep, my husband and I call it the Spirit of Victimhood. As long as people view themselves as a victim, there is an excuse not to change. The second they realize they don't have to live as a victim, change can and usually does happen. I used to live in Victimhood and my life was terrible in basically every way. Once I rejected that mindset, I was finally free to change my life. It's a powerful mindset shift.

[@dstevens518]

@@nevertoolate8589 Yup, folks focus on the results without commitment to the process to get there. That's why gambling makes money, people are lured by the easy payday, the quick fix. Diets too, no one wants to build up lifelong habits of eating well and exercising regularly. Find the discipline to get where you want to go, cause dreaming about the quick fix is a waste of your precious time.

[@connieulich6282]

Wait... Mark is living in California with his wife and 5 kids, on one income? I think Mark is doing better than he thinks. Sometimes just holding your own is a major achievement. I suspect he will get to FIRE, just not as fast as he wants

[@serialmigrant]

Please continue with FIRE content. Id rather understand the trade offs between trad and early retirement, and choose traditional retirement... then just follow the herd blindly. To me thats the point of FIRE. Life is about trade offs.

[@verb0ze]

I agree that sticking to FIRE topics makes more sense for this channel. There are others covering personal finance already and doing that well. I worry that trying to speak to a broader audience will dilute your content (engagement in comments for example will suffer and veer off-topic). If anything, create a separate channel.

[@Kumukarl]

@scott what’s the number on top of the bookshelf mean? Way to stay true to the mission of BPM! Speaking as someone at the inflection of “normal” but will be FI in 15 years.

[@scotttrench4169]

This is the aggregate number of people, from the beginning of time, who have created a free account on BiggerPockets.

[@ryantuteur5659]

I want to know as well!

[@nrivera567]

It’s his NW 😂

[@paulclarkson5850]

Stay Fire, there are countless other financial advisors

[@Investchan]

I belong to the FINR category!

[@xaldath4265]

Ramsey's content isn't geared toward FIRE, but one thing he says *does* apply. In order to live like no one else, you have to live like no one else. If you want to FIRE, you *MUST* have a large gap between income and expense. If you have a low income job in a high cost of living area and a bunch of core expenses, *you* have to make a change in order to differentiate yourself from average. You need to grow the income/expense gap...by focusing on one or both sides of the equation. It may seem elitist, but FIRE is not in the cards for everyone. Retiring at any age is already a position of privilege, especially compared to even 100 years ago. Retiring younger than the government or society expects you to *absolutely* requires privilege...but also taking advantage of that privilege.

[@xaldath4265]

I also agree with the remark toward the end that even the episodes that don't even come close to conompassing my situation often have nuggets of relevant concepts. The key is the ability to sift through what might otherwise seem like noise to find what applies to you as someone trying to learn from the content.

[@FIRED13]

Continue with FIRE content. There will be outliers you can't help, these people just need to find their own group elsewhere.Similar to I don't ask A FAT FIRE community to change their CORE focus to cater to me who is just regular FIRE

[@miguelmarquez6206]

On my way to lean FI after reaching flamingo (half) FI. 3 more years to go. 300k is the goal.

[@buckwildz]

Lets not pretend having 5 kids is normal in our society right now. The average family is 2 kids, if any at all. I think its great to make some videos for other situations but I agree, at one point the decision to have 5 kids and live in a VHCOL area means you will need to sacrifice other possibilities in life such as early retirement. Great video!

[@elizabethmowjee2402]

We are trying to achieve fire by retirement, lol

[@InvitationToTreat]

It's a hard truth but one of the best things you can do to secure your financial future is to NOT have kids.

[@mrrcman07]

My goal is fat fire and through 3 ETFs I definitely think it’s possible!

[@KeeptheChange41]

For mark, not sure what your job is but we took gov. jobs and moved to Europe and now live in a huge house covered by housing and are able to save much more than we did in the U.S. Kids attend U.S. school on base and we travel a lot and cheap.

[@ninoscorner99]

❤❤

[@belindatorres4328]

Hahhaha Reee tired

[@garrettbrown5977]

This is true. My goal is around 2m

[@Fitmomlyfe]

You guys have a singular goal - to create one million millionaires. Stick with that. He can leave CA. He doesn't want to. That's on him. I left CA; I get it. I've got children that I stay home with and I'm a high income earner and licensed to practice law in CA. You gotta leave CA. BP Money isn't just going to co-sign a shitty financial decision.

[@Kornheiser10]

You keep conflating and equating FI and FIRE. They are very different. What you all really promote is FI, not FIRE. I achieved Scott's definition of FI by my early 50's, but still have no interest in leaving my job, because I don't want to live a life of limitation like Mindy often discusses living in the FIRE milieu, which is the focus and frugal philosophy of many in the FIRE movement. As FI and spending less than I earn, I'm what's called Sustainable FI, because I have Room For Error built in. Most of your guests who claim FIRE, they don't have Room For Error built in, and if/when life's unpleasant events pop up, they have to restart or play catch-up from behind the 8 ball. Stop being so afraid of failed FI or FIRE people who once acheived FIRE but had to go back to the regular workforce. Your watchers will probably learn more as to how to avoid the pitfalls that can occur during FIRE, like: divorce, sickness, stock market collapses, housing market collapse, pandemics. Stay the course, but provide more pragmatic examples instead of just showing survivorship bias of unicorns and rainbows.....

[@SurpriseMeJT]

How does having to work at a job provide less limitation? If you have less time and more money, how does this describe having more freedom?

[@Kornheiser10]

@SurpriseMeJT more freedom on the long term, and you can work at what you enjoy., but once you cut the cord, particularly during your most highly productive $$$ years, you likely can never get them back and make up your losses. It's what Buffett and Morgan Housel talk about, it's surviving through the eventual troughs and never "blowing up" as Nassim Taleb describes in "Fooled By Randomness."

[@SurpriseMeJT]

@@Kornheiser10 Ok, get your point, but the way things are looking today, our productive years are in our 20's and 30's. After that, you've got to have played the corporate game to climb the ladder and scale the experience you've gained. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for the vast majority of people. Also, time in the market is greater than timing the market - so early investing earns more money during the "high earning" years and has more of a compounding effect than the effort it takes to maintain a high earning job. Not to mention the health effects of the stress having a higher paying job.

[@Kornheiser10]

@@SurpriseMeJT true as to time in the market for investing, but your 40s don't necessarily mean the corporate lifestyle, but it's when your experience hits peak, and when you $$ starts peaking, but also the "messy middle" where if you have kids your expenses increase and time becomes more precious...Sadly it's also when many divorces occur. Just make sure you have a plan when your plan doesn't go according to plan.