Why Argentine Spanish Sounds Italian, NOT Spanish

[@Lingua-Focus]

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[@jadarf0]

The marked up and down accent contributes to make more difficult the comprehension of Argentine spanish for everyone but for Italians. The accent sounds so familiar that Italians can catch every distinct word

[@linuxgrrl]

great topic. Only to add that lunfardo comes from "Lombardo" from the lombardia region in italy. Theres a great book about argentinian lunfardo called lunfardia

[@profmyrta2857]

I see comments here that are so rude. As an Argentinian, I feel ashamed. My ex- husband, who does not speak Spanish but English always told me that Argentinian Spanish sounded like Italian to him. I worked for an American company in Argentina and some of the people there told me the same. Regarding the sh phoneme has got different pronunciations, porteños over pronounced it, while in my province (Entre Rios) we don't pronunce it that strong. Thank you for your video.

[@merder415]

as argentine we all grew up in italian neighbourhoods, my granny my neighbours were all italians from the south and some spaniards that s why we react to many situations as them, nowadays we still keep in our speech some italians expression thanks for your video and interest!!

[@leandrogasperi3669]

Hola, interesante tema!! (He dado un "like"). Te hago dos observaciones a fin de enriquecer tu conocimiento, desde lo que yo puedo aportar: 1) Como varias personas comentaron, las características mencionadas en este video corresponden al español rioplatense (del "Río de la Plata" y alrededores), lo cual abarca parte de Argentina (principalmente centro/este) y Uruguay. Creo que el sur también. Es que el primer contacto de los inmigrantes que vinieron a Argentina entre fines del siglo IXX y principios del XX (al menos, en su mayoría) fue con Buenos Aires, al descender de los barcos. (Entre ellos, están mis abuelos y bisabuelos). 2) En castellano, la pronunciación de la secuencia "-sm-", que aparece en cualquier palabra terminada con el sufijo "-ismo", (como en "yeísmo"), es, a diferencia del inglés, SIN emisión vocálica entre los fonemas /s/ y /m/. Saludos!!

[@tonynunes4965]

Curiously, the "ll" and "y" being replaced by a "sh" sound makes many of those words sound like Portuguese, where "ch" (pronounced "sh") is typically used in words that would have "ll" Spanish. For example, "llave" in Spanish (key) is "chave" in Portuguese. Is it not possible this sound shift came about from contact with Brazilian Portuguese either directly or indirectly via Uruguay (which was at one time a Portuguese colony)? Also the sing-song aspect of the language: Brazilian (although not European) Portuguese is famous for being spoken in a sing-song way also.

[@luismudry]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@nerigarcia7116]

I used to be on a football team that had a couple Argentinians and not only did their accent sound Italian but it had a very rhythmic tone to it. It stood out from the other Spanish on the pitch.

[@alanjyu]

Regarding the word for you, Argentines did not decide to use Vos instead of tu. Vos comes from an older form of Spanish. It's similar to vous in french and Voi in Italian. It's definitely not an arbitrary difference.

[@tonynunes4965]

Vos still exists in modern Portuguese, although its use is in decline, being replaced by voces (plural of voce).

[@alanjyu]

​@@tonynunes4965 yes!! Vos is the formal you like vous is formal you in french. In Castilian Spanish, the plural form of "you" is "vosotros", which is "Vos" plus "otros", which means "others". Você in Portuguese is actually a contraction vossa mercê (your mercy) and usted (formal you) in Spanish is actually a contraction of vuestra merced (also your mercy). So, vos is still present in both Spanish and Portuguese but it's hidden.

[@andresbedoya4466]

Argentina no es el único país hispanohablante que usa el "voseo". A mí personalmente lo único que me parece similar al italiano es una especie de cantado que los argentinos imitan del italiano. Y también es real que su ascendencia también tiene italianos, pero italianos han llegado a muchas partes de América.

[@lukecole5056]

Yes, it comes from Latin, and it used to be an extremely formal "you", used to refeer exclusively to a Roman emperor. Roman Emperors called themselves "nos", so people used to call them "vos". Over the years the "vos" started to be used to refer to superiors in Spain (royalty, generals, etc) especially in the army. And since Argentina was colonized by spanish military forces, they used the word "vos" much more frequently than normal people in Spain. That's probably why spaniards don't use the word "vos" anymore. The word "nos" is almost extinct now, but its plural still exists: "nosotros" (us: nos + otros, yo y otros... me and others) and the plural form of vos is only used in Spain (vosotros: vos + otros, you + others... kind of like y'all). Also, the word "nos" alone, also became a plural itself somehow... a more formal version of "nosotros", but only used in super formal situations. For example, the Argentine constitution starts with "Nos, los representantes del pueblo" ("We, the representatives of the people"...) So it basically went from singular (the empreror) to plural: the government. And I always found it weird that the Argentine constitution starts with "we, the government" instead of "we, the people". They used the US constitution as a base probably, but decided to change the meaning of the phrase. Anyway, I like words lol

[@100slavic8]

Great channel brother!! Keep doing great work you got your new subscribe

[@MalakhiMelecio]

I’m half Argentinian half Puerto Rican. It would be amazing if you make a video about Puerto Rican Spanish or Caribbean Spanish and their similarities and differences. It would be pretty cool. Love your channel man!

[@Lingua-Focus]

My friend that’s a pretty awesome mix right there! I’ll add your suggestion to the content queue! Thanks so much for your kind words 🙏🏼😊

[@soyjuan_mikaell]

This is such a well put video. Great work! Hope algo will recommend your vids to more people.

[@Lingua-Focus]

Hey there, thank you so much for your kind words! I am glad you like the video. Are there any other Spanish accents you would like me to explore? :D

[@Rubixire_gs]

@@Lingua-Focus the scary paraguayan accent

[@sidharth1123]

Super video James. As someone working for an Argentine IT company and learning French, I’ve always wondered how different their Spanish is from European. Quite so apparently!

[@Lingua-Focus]

Thanks so much! Yes, very different! How are you finding the process of French?

[@sidharth1123]

Quite intense. I'm learning with Alliance Francaise for 10 hours a week. Start B1 on 3rd Oct. I've already bought Ollie's books for beginners. Its really satisfying being able to read and understand French. I'm keen to study Spanish after B2. Being fluent in French definitely helps right?@@Lingua-Focus

[@Lingua-Focus]

@@sidharth1123 Awesome work and well done for reaching B1 in French. Yes, being able to speak French will definitely help you with Spanish. Your biggest challenge will be familiarising yourself with a new accent and ridding of your French accent habits. Spanish is a phonetic language so I am sure you will find it easier. I find Spanish much easier than French. But I love both :) Good luck!

[@sidharth1123]

Merci beaucoup mon ami. I'd love if you could make vids on French too. I really enjoy watching KZbinrs sans subs whenever I can! @@Lingua-Focus

[@Lingua-Focus]

I'll make one about French. Would you prefer a video about the French language in general, or one which helps you to learn French?@@sidharth1123

[@mylesmcswiney4991]

My Spanish is intermediate but I noticed the accent immediately Sho instead of yo. Love it

[@corpi8784]

It is better to call it Rio Platense Spanish as there are different varieties of Soanish i. Argentina and the most commonly used with its pecularities is Rio Platemse a variety,spoken in Bueneos Aires and also spoken on the other side of the Rio Plata i.nUruguay

[@theincomparablemess]

Your account just popped up and I didn't regret having hit that subscribe button 🎉

[@PandaaArts]

4:46 i watched this in spanish class hahah

[@barrysteven5964]

Great video. I am a retired language teacher and I taught A level Spanish for many years. I always brought Latin American materials into our studies including a couple of Argentinian films and we had fun (I hope) getting to grips with it. We also used to study a Colombian film for the exam, which they always enjoyed. One of my colleagues was from Bogotá and her Spanish was beautifully clear and easy to follow!!

[@maravreloaded]

The Voseo comes from old spanish. Like most of the verbs. Tenés Tenéis, Venís Venís, Querés Queréis, Sabés Sabéis, etc. Vos also from old spanish. That's where Vosotros comes from. "Vos sois"

[@lizsalazar7931]

I agree with him and many people also agree, Argentina “ Spanish “ is like if an Italian more from Napoli were to speak Spanish with Italian words put into it that’s what it sounds like to my ear. The intonation is super similar to the Italian intonation

[@aleejoo2024]

The accent described in this video is the “Rio de la Plata accent”, which is spoken in the Buenos Aires region and south of Argentina, and in all of Uruguay, the neighbouring country. There’s not a single “Argentine Spanish” because it’s a big country and has a lot of accents, for example, people of Salta don’t speak the same way than those from Buenos Aires or Rosario, and has influence from Bolivian or Paraguayan Spanish, and they don’t use the “yeísmo”.

[@zidnididenmark.05]

I made a short movie on my channel about Italian immigration to Argentina. In my film, there are Argentinian accents, food, and body language among them.

[@cheeveka3]

I think that some Argentinan accents sound more like Galician than Italian. You think that is accurate? 🧐 I heard that many Galicians moved to Argentina too. Here is a link of Galicians speaking in Galician and it reminds me of Argentinian accent a lot. Also in Galician “sh” is very common in Galician too example “rexión” in Galician is pronounced as “reshon” and “vos” is also common in Galician too but used little differently compared to Spanish. 😁 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIaydoWtgp2nfLMsi=98kRCHS16DSJx3ov

[@Lingua-Focus]

That's interesting :) To me it just sounds so Italian, and I love the up and down intonation. Depending on where you are in Argentina, the accent changes, of course. My generalisations are about Buenos Aires (as are the clips in the video). Have you heard the Argentine accent from Córdoba? Crazy!

[@cheeveka3]

@@Lingua-Focus I will need to listen to that accent. Also in Galician there is different accents too like in Spanish. Yes when I started studying Galician people did think I had Italian accent. The Galician accent is melodic like the Italian accent. Some Galician has stronger influences Spanish, but there’s some that have less influence in Spanish, and seems more similar to Portuguese.

[@cheeveka3]

@@Lingua-Focus I forgot to mention to that in Argentina, there’s some people who still speak Welsh, because the British did colonize the southern regions of Argentina.😁🇬🇧

[@eliasshakkour2904]

Not ¿Cómo te shamas? ❌ ¿Cómo te shamás? ✅

[@tuggaboy]

Uruguayans watching this: 🤡 I beg your pardon??

[@Lingua-Focus]

I have lived in Argentina and Uruguay. I could differentiate between the two types, but found more similarities than differences.

[@carolinahill536]

In regards to el voseo. If you’re a native Spanish speaker, in Latin America you learn how to conjugate verbs using vos and vosotros as well as tu/usted, ustedes/vosotros. 😉 You find it in older literature. Cervantes and Shakespeare time.

[@MalolesMorenoTorres]

Estoy de acuerdo en que el argentino tiene una entonación que recuerda mucho al italiano, aunque también los gallegos hablan con una entonación muy musical y fueron muchos los que emigraron a Argentina, por tanto,el acento argentino podría tener las dos influencias. Pero en lo que te equivocas totalmente es en el planteamiento que haces del "voseo" como una originalidad argentina, como algo que se inventaron ellos porque les importaba un pimiento (they didn't give a fuck) la gramática española. En el siglo XVI, el vos y el tú convivían como pronombre de la segunda persona del singular. El vos se usaba como fórmula de respeto, cuando el interlocutor era de clase social igual al hablante (el vuestra merced, del que se originó el usted, se usaba cuando el interlocutor era de clase superior) y el tú se usaba cuando existía confianza con el interlocutor, o este era claramente inferior en clase social. Posteriormente la situación se invirtió, y el vos no implicaba respeto alguno mientras que el tú, sí. Este último cambio se reflejó en las zonas de América que tenían virreinatos (Perú, Méjico, etc), y estaban más en contacto con la metrópoli y los cambios lingüísticos que se producían allí. Ese no era el caso de Argentina o Uruguay, ni de muchas zonas de Centroamérica, o incluso Colombia, etc. Por ello allí permaneció el uso del vos. Pero, insisto, el vos no es una invención de los argentinos, sino una palabra del antiguo castellano que se perdió en la península y otros territorios de América y subsistió en Argentina, Uruguay y otros lugares de América.

[@michaelfisher9267]

With Chile beside Argentina, does Chilean Spanish sound the same as Argentine Spanish?

[@Lingua-Focus]

It’s a great question, but no. Chile has a unique accent full of local vocabulary and colloquialisms. Perhaps I could make a video about Chilean Spanish! Thank you for engaging with my video 😊

[@moniquemonicat]

It's from the ITALIAN roots of Argentina.

[@trinidad2450]

My Guatemalan husband and my former Argentinian boss speak the same Spanish, voseo, while I, a Mexican-American Spanish speaker speak the standard Spanish. 😊. So, in my head I am constantly changing how he speaks to the way I learned Spanish. We recently came back from Guatemala and voseo was spoken all over the place over there. As soon as I opened my mouth and spoke Spanish, they knew right away I wasn’t from those parts. 😊❤

[@Lingua-Focus]

Aw that’s lovely! I love the linguistic diversity of the Spanish language. When I’m in South America I find myself dropping the Spanish ‘ceta’ as I realise how out of place it sounds.

[@jandamskier6510]

But the sh sound is only in the east, Rosario and maybe Córdoba! - My colleague from the North does not speak like that. Nor did the late Sosa! Who was also a northerner.

[@Lingua-Focus]

Thank you for the insight! :)

[@martinkullberg6718]

How would spanish there have sounded if a huge portion of dutch people had emigrated? Taken enough people to have a heavy dutch influence

[@Lingua-Focus]

I often wonder about how different the linguistic landscape would be in that region if Italian had become the lingua franca in Argentina.

[@martinkullberg6718]

@@Lingua-Focus Also interesting and to make it more interesting a huge populus of dutch people so you get a dutchified italian writing like parlaare and having the ui (œ) sound, like pjui (for piú) I like that sound 😁

[@Deibi078]

why when people have to take a clip of Argentinian dialect they have to bring up politics lol

[@Monkeymeep]

Argentine Spanish sounds like Spanish. They just speak it with an Italian accent. It becomes very difficult to discern which trait comes from which language because spanish and Italian are inherently two very similar languages and can even get confused with one another in circles that have had less exposure.

[@lizsalazar7931]

Not really Spanish and Italian are not that similar they have a lot of differences to me as a Spanish speaker I don’t understand Argentinian especially the slang or every day words I can tell that Italy has made a huge influence in the language of Argentina

[@sortingoutmyclothes8131]

You're very handsome.

[@capitancangrejo]

It's viceroyalties, not colonies, Spain had a different view on their overseas territories.

[@RJRedtail]

Colonialism by a different name is still colonialism

[@capitancangrejo]

@@RJRedtail there's a small difference though, often British and French colonies were only resource mining sites for the crown, while viceroyalties kept most of their wealth, only that they still served the king in Spain

[@joseluisrambaut1581]

Comment: "sh" is used by "porteños", i.e. people from Buenos Aires (and usually not the most educated one) and not by the rest of the country. The real pronunciacion of "Y" and "ll" (lluvia, yo, calle) is like in english the "J" in "joint", "June". The "sh" comes from the italian. Cheers.

[@jasperkok8745]

I also think it’s [asher] and [kashe] rather than [aysher] and [kayshe] don’t you think? (Sorry for using an approximation using the Latin alphabet, I’m not sure how to properly render it in IPA notation.)

[@tonynunes4965]

More likely it comes from Galego and / or Portuguese, which use the "sh" sound commonly, and in the same contexts where Castillian has "ll". Italian does have a "sh" sound, although it is not as common (e.g. scena) and is used in different word contexts.

[@jasperkok8745]

@@tonynunes4965 When I studied Spanish (as a foreign language) at university in the 1990s it was described as a phonetic simplification phenomenon. According to the theory I was taught, ll first was pronounced as y, as it is in most of the Americas and the south of Spain, then it became a voiced zh, and finally sh. Of course, Italian, Galician and Portuguese may well have influenced the development, but the fact that pronunciation changed in a way that requires less and less effort is a general phenomenon.

[@Lingua-Focus]

I have lived in Argentina and travelled pretty extensively across the country. I’ve met Argentinians from Salta to Misiones, from Mendoza to Patagonia. From experience they all speak with a ‘sh’ so with respect I do not believe this to be unique to porteños

[@tonynunes4965]

@@jasperkok8745 good points. None of these sources / influences need be mutually exclusive, it should be pointed out. In fact the "less and less effort" phenomenon could have led to independent origins... but there could also have been reinforcement from related languages that had gone a similar path. Portuguese, IMO, is actually hugely influenced by this "less effort" phenomenon: consonants have been dropped with wild abandon (e.g. "salude" became "saude", "producto" became "produto"). French also shows signs of this trend, and even though these two languages were not necessarily influencing each other, they often ended up doing similar things, such as dropping "c" before "t" ("produit", "lait").

[@Deibi078]

no

[@ferdieshoes2310]

Uruguayan Spanish is the same as the Argentinian!

[@kazhamo]

Peninsular Castilian Spanish is not homogeneous, and there is nothing "neutral" about it. Peruvian Spanish can be sometimes somewhat "neutral" when compared to Mexican, Argentine, Colombian etc.

[@Septe.]

I'd honestly argue that Galician or Portuguese had more influence on the pronunciation

[@lizsalazar7931]

Where??? Definitely Italian influence I gotta get a translator for Argentinian

[@ferdieshoes2310]

It is the SOUND,not the pronunciation!

[@DanielHerrera-rl1vw]

Im so tired of people saying it sounds Italian and not Spanish - it is literally Spanish! And it does not sound that different from other forms of Spanish also the intonation also sounds a lot like Spanish spoken in northern Spain not just like Italian

[@emmanuelchaparro552]

No. The most similar intonation is the napolitanean intonation. A study has been made.

[@peteymax]

Suena italiano

[@lizsalazar7931]

It sounds Italian there’s even Italian words I don’t know if it’s Spanish maybe a mix between Spanish and Italian

[@peaceonearth8693]

Measure and Shoe don't have the same sound.

[@j2zel]

They have a unique way of speaking Spanish, but I don't think it sounds Italian at all. I've heard Italians speak Spanish with an Italian accent, and it doesn't sound like this neither

[@Lingua-Focus]

Do you speak Spanish or Italian?

[@j2zel]

@Lingua-Focus Spanish

[@thank_you2933]

It sounds very Italian to me, and I don't like it. It doesn't sound serious. It makes me to want to laugh 😂

[@Nana-cs1dg]

lol It literally sounds Spanish, obviously all Spanish countries have their own accent... but if you had to choose the country that sounds the least Spanish that might be Chile

[@Joseph-pz5bo]

Gibraltar's dialect of Spanish is quite distinct

[@lizsalazar7931]

Sounds like an Italian is speaking Spanish and puts Italian words into it 👏

[@Nana-cs1dg]

@@lizsalazar7931 Not at all lmao I'm a native Spanish speaker and it sounds 100% Spanish

[@lizsalazar7931]

@@Nana-cs1dg trust me everyone knows that Argentinian “ Spanish “ or rioplatense is like an Italian speaking Spanish with Italian words into it 🤌🤌 the intonation is the same as Italian

[@lizsalazar7931]

@@Nana-cs1dg maybe you are not even from Argentina to know

[@philhenrick4715]

Pronunciation, not pronounciation!!!

[@prometion7592]

bro, you don't have any clue what you are talking about. Spanish from Spain is pretty much the same as Argentinian Spanish, besides some local slang that all the Latin American countries have. The language's structure, words, and verbs are the same. Otherwise, we could not understand each other and that is not the case. The accent from Argentina is a derivative of Galicia and the ancient Spanish spoken in Spain. so please stop making assumptions and start doing good research on languages.

[@Lingua-Focus]

Hello, I appreciate the input but I must politely disagree. I'm a fluent speaker of Spanish and I spent about 18 months living/working in Argentina. To somebody who does not understand Spanish, the intonation of Rioplatense Spanish can sound more like Italian than Castilian Spanish (particularly to English speakers) which is what I try to convey in the video. You only need to look at the search volume on the subject by English speakers to verify this. Many words are not the same (as is to be expected), and the verb structure differs with the voseo. Structurally there are plenty of differences. It's nothing to do with assumptions. Also, I'm unsure if English is your first language or not, but I am guessing it's not because the tone of your comment is really abrupt. I appreciate you engaging with my video and providing feedback, but try to be nicer, even if your feedback isn't positive.

[@ionjauregui3010]

Mate i am native speaker with s lot of knowledge on the matter. And I disagree with your statement. The Argentina accent is a derivative of the colonization Spanish spoken in galicia and Portugal. Not from Italy. Actually the vocalization of the basics of their accent is very close to Galician and old Portuguese accent. The old Spanish is not the same and by far neither is written the same way as it is today. If you compare the modisms if the old English to the modern they don't have anything to do either in form and language. If you make more research you can understand that Napoli and Sicily and other areas were part of the Spanish kingdom that is why you might feel sounds like Italian accent. But its not. Its the purest form of old Spanish from the north west. (Asturias, Galicia and Portugal) that's the variation of double ss and other dialectic forms they are very sensitive to modify the language. If you go to Venezuela the root of their accent comes from canary islands and also from Andalusia and Portugal in a very strong way. The most preserved Spain Spanish in latin America I would say it is chile and peru and they also have their own slang but the voice tone is quite similar to center- south pronouncing. Also it must be added the details of local natives speaking their own language. If you go to filipines there's a big reminiscence of the vocabulary and the Spanish of Spain is more from the center of spain. Due to the first Spanish settlers stablishing in each specific region of the world affecting the locals with their language and creating a local slang. If you go to Algeciras -la linea and Gibraltar. The Brits living there have clear andalusian accent. What I mean here is that the Italian settlers were Spanish speakers from Spanish kingdom. So their Spanish was Castilian. The later i. The 50s Italians arrived as many Spaniards travelled looking for the American dream and a land of opportunities. In Argentina there's a huge basque community and also affect the accents. So what you state is not true. Italian is not the root of their accent is portuguese and north west Spanish accents. 100% demonstrated. Please do your own literacy research and you will finally agree

[@Lingua-Focus]

@@ionjauregui3010 I am not claiming Italian is the sole source and route of their accent. I’m claiming the intonation makes it sound similar to Italian to non-Spanish speakers.

[@emmanuelchaparro552]

The intonation is mostly napolitanean. There’s even a study. 80% of the City of Buenos Aires has Italian origins.

[@javilo380]

It doesn't sound like Italian at all, the sounds are completely different even the vowels, sh sound doesn't exist in Italy for exemple

[@emmanuelchaparro552]

Whattt? How do u pronounce “scendere”, “piscina”????

[@scotthullinger4684]

The Spanish of Argentina might somewhat resemble Italian, but it's not as if it sound like Italian. I lived in Argentina.

[@pokeswan]

what is this guy yapping about argentinian is spanish, spanish poeople cna understand argentinians and italians cant understand argentinians, argentinians just use word from old spanish

[@sausagefest2427]

Guatemala also uses voseo