Why Artists are FURIOUS at Clip Studio Paint! || SPEEDPAINT + COMMENTARY

[@KoongYe]

The problem is that it was a blatant lie. CSP's homepage stated that it will be one-time payment for the rest of its service. They made it their biggest selling-point. They mysteriously removed the statement this January which left people speculating. It's not something you can switch out of nowhere because doing so is basically fraud. Also their business model was sustainable evidenced by their constant updates, contests, and sponsoring.

[@danielescaf6022]

I mean, they upheld it for a decade, was it a lie when they first said it? Maybe? Probably not. I personally cannot imagine getting upset over this if I bought the program back in 2012. I mean if I paid 50 bucks back then I must've thought it was worth 50 at the time. So how much more worth did I not pay for over a decade of updates? Cause I certainly did not pay for any of those. Companies should always sell complete products. But should they be able to sell extra content? Yeah. Also contests and sponsoships are not a sign of profitability, they are marketing investments, they are no throwning money to the wind, they are promoting themselves in order to attract buyers. Usually when a company starts doing that kind of stuff is because they are struggling and need a boost in sales, even if they have to spend moeny to make more money. Not saying that's necessarily the case this particular time but just the fact that they do that doesn't give you any indication of how they are doing whatsoever.

[@KoongYe]

​@@danielescaf6022 what part of promise of "permanency" don't you understand? a decade isn't not close to permanent. You can say they did that for 1.x and moving onto a new plan for 2.x. But then, they have to keep maintenance on 1.x to keep the promise, which they stated they won't. Sponsorship and contest in a small up-and-coming company is very different from companies like CSP which is holding pretty large percentage of the artist base. Do you think constant stream of $1000 prize contest will generate even portion of the money spent on it? Not at all. In CSP's case they already have a large portion of faithful users and want to spread it even more so they can strike people with the new payment plans while they hold their files, brushes, etc on ransom. If they were struggling we would know from layoffs and less updates neither of which happened.

[@mura_saki]

@@danielescaf6022 most contests they hold are for people that already own clipstudio paint, unless someone checks their website every so often they won't really see the contest updates unless they HAVE clipstudio and are shown it in the program. and this isn't selling "extra content" this is changing the original product and its promises, and on top of that version 1 won't be supported after 3.0(which is such a vague timing btw, version 2.0 took 10 years to come out so who knows how long it'll take for 3.0 to come out), meaning it will become unusable at some point forcing you to buy the subscription model

[@Le_Phantom]

Not to mention they are making us pay two times, the program and the updates, only to pay again for another program and then again for the updates You only own the programs without updates And they of course are going to rise the price for the subscription, that's what all these services do once they get enough people

[@bunnywar]

@@mura_saki giving prizes away costs money

[@barbi111]

Let's say it as it is. Betrayal is betrayal. There is nothing here reasonable. We can be respectful to them, but why if they are just don't respect us.

[@rubbish_kat]

yep, the issue here for me is not the money, its the fact they lied. We were promised lifetimes updates and they are breaking that promise. If they couldn't commit to that, they should have instead promised X amount of years of updates included and stuck to that, THEN made this model change, i would have been a lot less upset by that.

[@barbi111]

@@rubbish_kat Exactly!

[@goliathtigerfishes]

The only reason I didn't save up for Adobe is because of Clip's animation feature and that it did not have a subscription plan. I want to own what I buy! Companies have taken advantage of artists for too long and this is such a punch in the face.

[@danielescaf6022]

You can pretty much always own what you buy as long as you don't update it, that's the thing. You can't really expect someone to continue giving you free updates forevermore in exchange of a one time purchase. They managed to uphold that for a decade, and that's just not sustainable. You wanna own what you buy? Sure, 2 options: never update, or find a developer who doesn't charge for a subscription but does charge for every update they make. Otherwise what you are asking is being able to pay for something in 2022 and have it be a lot better and different from what you bought at the time in another 10 years, when and how exactly did you buy that?

[@lunarcat3283]

@@danielescaf6022 just make another version thats buyable than monthly

[@anetkrausova]

@@danielescaf6022 the problem is however, that you can't just do 180 out of the blue and immediately announce, that what you bought as a buy-once-keep-forever is not going to exist in an undisclosed amount of time because they will stop with support and fixes for newer systems on older CSP versions.. sure, make a new version with better features, or include EX stuff in the monthly plan, but don't spit into people's faces that you won't support the old stuff anymore.. that's called a scam.. there were ways for them to take that would make everyone happy - pay for stuff in the store, have paid tutorials and courses, but you can't betray everyone who promoted the stuff for you because it was accessible and affordable and then make it anything but. that's not why people were willing to ditch the norm that was photoshop for something better the worst part is, that the subsription won't be getting you the stuff either.. you will still need to re-buy the new versions AND pay for the subscription to keep using it, as further updates will lock you out of the full experience, and if that becomes the norm, what is stopping them from prying on people and dialing the prices up to just under the price of adobe to keep people in for being the just barely less expensive option?

[@Zzapic]

@@anetkrausova I think both you and Celestia misunderstand, you don't need to re-buy the new versions. You can buy the update pass for both version 1 and 2, so if you already have v1, there's no need to buy the new version. Which means when v3 and v4 eventually comes out, you can still have only v1, and use update pass to keep updated (which is basically yearly subscription). Nothing wrong with using v1 until it breaks and then buy the latest perpetual version either (granted they don't change the plan again). I also don't think they'll dial the prices up to just under the price of adobe either. To me it seems like they want to make a program for both hobbyists and professionals, where a perpetual version without updates is a good cheap alternative for hobbyists, while professionals may be more inclined to keep up to date. And I honestly think this is a good solution. Could be wrong though ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

[@Stabilization]

Hey there, I heard that Krita’s animation features got pretty good as of late. It’s free, so it might be worth checking out and seeing if it meets your needs or not! :)

[@tinymittensdesign]

People try to defend this with "WELL THEY HAVE TO PAY THE DEVELOPERS, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DO THAT?" uh...through sales of the program? Like every other one time purchase program that's still around and thriving? Raise the price of the initial program if you have to. One time purchase was the selling point, even if something is more expensive, people are still more willing to pay a one-time price versus a subscription.

[@SpookyGhostpeppers]

Plus dont they do contests ALL THE TIME that have $1000 of prize money? If they were so scrapped for money then why do they keep flashing these paid contests I keep getting emails about? (unless theyre sponsored by someone else, although that doesnt seem like the case)

[@kuma8030]

thing is they have been selling the program for 10 years now with free updates. the fact that there are free updates makes people that bought it 10/8/5 years ago not need to buy it and thats probably most of its user base on desktop. there is a limited amount of artist that will buy the program and since they dont need to buy an updated version they wont spend any money hencefort making you going bankrupt in the long run if you dont do something like this which is poorly explained and once comprehended its the best they could do at the same time that they give their stable source of income a reason to still be the stable source of income.

[@mimikyulover3411]

Or, if they actually need more money, they can do paid updates THAT STICK. Like a dlc. Much better and still gets them revenue

[@rubbish_kat]

@@kuma8030 I disagree, there are always new artists looking for affordable software option. But even if your right, then they never should have promised lifetime updates. The issue here (at least for me) is less the money and more that that this means they effectively lied to those they sold the software to. It not so bad for people that bought the software a long time ago, but for people like me that bought it more recently, its extremely disappointing to have the promise of updates for the foreseeable future broken so soon. If they had instead promised a set amount of years of updates and stuck to that, I would be a lot less upset. Furthermore if the current model truely isn't sustainable, then they were either incredibly stupid to not forsee this issue or they knew all along it wasn't sustainable and were knowingly lying the whole time.

[@mikofanboy9711]

Tbh, if they just selling the v2, v3,… then everything fine But noo, even if you buy ver 2, you still need an update pass for ver 2.1, 2.2,… like wtf?

[@EllaTurtella]

Every artist upset about this needs to not pay for these updates. Nothing will change to this system no matter how much we protest unless all of us vote with our wallets and DON'T support this financially! This should go without saying, but I just don't want artists to end up like parts of the gaming community. (gamers complaining about company or product then proceeding to still purchase every game DLC and expansion at launch so nothing gets better, cough EA sims 4)

[@holy.diever]

There isnt really a better alternative for me on the ipad though (yes i tried procreate, it didnt work for me. I couldnt do my art in it, plus i draw both on pc and ipad so csp was one of my only options that had easy transition to both) Though that being said if they force a second subscription for access to the pc version I wont be updating my pc version... just gonna hope i can continue to use it with the ipad version... despite it being outdated

[@Le_Phantom]

@@holy.diever Are procreate and CSP the only drawings apps for iPad? (I use the superior android)

[@holy.diever]

@@Le_Phantom dont bring android superiority into this... kinda cringe (im mostly an android user but i like the apple pencil better than the styluses android options provide) No i dont think so, though they're the "good" ones with recourses and support. That i know of, Id be happy to be reccomended more options.

[@mura_saki]

@@holy.diever I think the superior Android thing was a joke lol

[@Le_Phantom]

@@holy.diever Bro, it was a joke, I thought the () made it obvious Search for medibang and ibis paint

[@Dexter01992]

Have no doubt: Once this begin and people start paying, it will quickly become as expensive per year as Photoshop. When a company starts to do this, they planned it for months. It's a game about "two steps forward, one step back." They will lure in people with "oh, it's just 40$ a year! No brainer then!" On the long run, we'll reach 50$ a month subscription-only CSP and you will be blackmailed with no access to your work if you stop paying. Do NOT fall for this. Not a step forward. If you let them advance, eventually we won't be able to push them back anymore because they will have already taken all of your work hostage. Just look at any other company that did this. Eventually they got what they wanted, even if it took years.

[@lurker6341]

In my humble opinion, I think it'll be more expensive than photoshop because of what they give you for a year vs what creative cloud gives you for a year. CSP doesn't have other software like photoshop does, only a modeller, and you also have to pay for the new versions to come, photoshop does not charge more money for each version. It's not much about the raw money you pay but the cost benefit of it.

[@harmonixdraws5298]

I stopped using Adobe and Photoshop when they turned subscription and I won't continue to use Clip. I'm not adding yet another subscription service which feels that it's becoming entirely subscription based as a year, society, whatever you want to call it. It's just ridiculous when they can sustain themselves the way they currently are. Edit: while not as derailed or extensive as Clip, SAI is a great example of a one time purchase program that hasn't at all changed.

[@corasundae]

I don't know why you think they can sustain themselves as they are giving free updates to people who bought their software a decade ago forever. It was nice of them to do, but there's a reason no company has ever done that, before subscriptions or after.

[@luciel234]

@@corasundae Ever heard of Paint Tool SAI? lol

[@izumichan31]

@@luciel234 People bring up paint tool sai but it's made by a single person(?) so only needs to support that person. And it's probably not that person's main source of income.

[@luciel234]

@@izumichan31 Still a better alternative? Regardless of how much money the person makes off of it, "there's a reason no company has ever done that" is just sorta false regardless.

[@krismarshall3803]

@@luciel234 I mean yeah but Sai is not Mac compatible, which a chunk of professional artists kinda of use

[@vancoverdeduction9032]

i have to completely disagree with the "csp needs more money" they have 10,000 dollar giveaways, no? theyve been updating their program with a one time purcuse model for over 2 decades, right?? it doesnt make any sense that they need more money.. even if they did, switching to subscription model was a scummy move.. i dont really care if thats seen as a evil thing to say either. they are a corporation. csp is not a human being. csp built up artists trust and _invested_ in that trust with sponsorships and interacting with their userbase heavily. the switch to subscription after that trust was built is no mistake! i dont want this to seem like a hate comment, you seem like an alright person with decent content [even if its not up my alley] but people have to understand the here and now is not what artists are worried about, its the future. what about in 10 years, will version 1.0 even be stable? what about 20- will any art program _be_ *ownable?* subscription models are becoming so common place that not even companies that sell themselves as being the "single good" in a sea of price gouging cant resist the temptation is scary. it gets harder and harder to be in the creative industry because of predatory business. thats all.

[@mysteriouswolven]

Yes the future, it's not about how reasonable the subscription may be now. We rely on these programs to make art and some of us - to make a living. In the future these subscription prices always go up and they can extort significant amounts of money from artists who are already a severely underpaid group!! it's not easy to just switch programs as they all work a little differently and do not all offer the same features. They get no pat on the back for trying to make it cheap *for now* because we already know this capitalistic routine. Celestia is a somewhat established artist so maybe that's why its not as concerning for her. But most artists are not in that privileged of a position and finances for most right now are a struggle. And this could actually kill some peoples early artistic pursuit if they have to weigh what they're making from art or the program they make art with tied to a lifetime subscription that will only increase every year.

[@danielescaf6022]

They are a company with developer costs and server upkeep, amongst a lot of other things, I'm sorry but even if they were giving 10k gifts weekly that's not a sign of they doing well financially. You are making calculations in your hear assuming they emply like 15 people. Saying that they must be doing super well because they spend a few mil on what's basically advertisement is naive, they have more expenses. Regarding the other thing, you can own stuff, you can own a car, but you have to pay for the gas, the tires, the upkeep in general, same with basically anything else. In regards to programs, you can own them, just as you own games, but you can't really expect free updates, you buy what it's there at a certain point in time and nothing else, everything you are getting for free. The only updates you can reasonably expect in perpetuity are the ones that allow you to still use what you have in your system. So if you update windows or IOS, you should still be able to run the version of the program you bought, but nothing else. The idea that on top of that you should just own in perpetuity any new content without paying for it is far beyond what's reasonable, when exactly did you buy that? And that's not predatory just by being, specially if we are talking about dozens of meaningful updates across a decade. So if you want true ownership you have basically 2 options. Buy the program and never update it. Stick to the version that existed at the time you bought it, since that's what you actually paid for, or find a program that instead of a membership offers packs. So you have a base version, and if something new comes out that you want, you can buy it independently and you own forever. That's fair. But you are not entitled to buy something and have it be incredibly improved decade after decade forever by paying 50 dollars back in 2012, no company can be sustainable in the long term by doing that. If you aregument is you own what you paid for, that's fair. You own what you paid for at the time you bought it and nothing else. Everything else you got for free and you very much did not pay for it.

[@meat3958]

@@danielescaf6022 10k gifts weekly is 10k dollars that isn’t guaranteed to be made back and paid to their devs, stupid and shitty business choice if the company is poor. If that’s the reason they do them, it’s a dumb one and I don’t and wouldn’t feel bad for them specifically because how stupid that idea would even conceptually be. Mr Krabs wants more money, that’s it and all its ever been. They said one time purchase with updates for life on the website then removed it like sneaky little worms without a word; Doesn’t matter how long ago it was said, doesn’t matter WHEN it was said, either. It was said, and they either should stick to their own word or get prepared to get the hate they deserve for their dogshit business model 💀 Edit to add: “yOu GeT wHaT yOu PaY fOr!!!1!1😡😡😡” No, no we don’t. Artists that bought the og paid FOR THE FREE UPDATES. That was INCLUDED in the deal originally. It WAS the original deal. That WAS what was paid for so even more dogshit of a point 😂👍

[@danielescaf6022]

@@meat3958 dude calm down a little, my god. You are talking as if i hit your mother for not agreeing with you. Be a normal human being first. What about their business model is shitty? Not warning? Sure. but changing to subscrption? That's standard AND necessary wether you want to acknowledge it or not. And regarding the giveaways, if they do them it's almost always because they make less money not doing them, so the idea that they are wasting money that they could be using to pay their staff is just ridiculous, based on that logic no one would spend on marketing whatsoever. I mean, it's not going to developing so it's being thrown away right? Having your name out there doesn't do anything right? Come on. And idk if they said updates for life, but it's still a one time purchase for those who don't want updates. They are keeping the promise for the most part to those who already bought it. Do they have to uphold it to people who don't have it yet? You are not entitled to that. Companies can change payment models. And look I'm sorry but this is not the kind of service that you can sustain by one time purchaces in perpetuity, it is literally impossible because you are always gonna sell less hyear over year, while having to host information for more people and also maintain more and more services as updates keep piling up. A company that sells something which is ever evolving needs either a subscription model or a pack model in which you pay for the new stuff or stay keep a base service you only pay for once. But the one they currently have? You had a decade of that, it's 100% understandable that they can't do that anymore. If you want to treat this with zero nuance go right ahead. But don't be disrespectful to someone who has done nothing to you. Go tag them on twitter and scream to them over there. Not to me. You having your feeling hurt or being frustrated doesn't give you the right to be a shitty person to strangers. Grow up

[@meat3958]

@@danielescaf6022 Sounds like you didn’t even read my comment after having read that reply LMAO that’s a lot of words and yet absolutely none of them make their idea/model change any less dooky booty 🥴

[@keeysOST]

For me it's more a problem of money. The subscription could be cheap, but as a a student that has to pour 100% of my money into school, I do not have the savings to survive and pay a monthly subscription. I'll stick to my V1, after that, who knows.

[@anetkrausova]

i think most of us will, however, the scary part is, that in a undisclosed amount of time, might be much closer than we'd even anticipate, they will stop with bugfixes and stabilization patches for new OS updates, which will render the old versions unuseable and half the support and features of 2.0 will stop midway to 3.0 as well - unless you re-upgrade AGAIN, which just let's them drain people who decided to trust them of more money

[@corasundae]

@@anetkrausova y'all know this is how software worked pre-subscriptions, right? You buy each major version. Or you don't buy it and keep your old version.

[@reality7068]

What I'm concerned about is even after you pay for the subscription fee for updates, once you stop, it will revert to the base programme, as if you never paid for the prev updates, post 2.0. So, essentially, what you paid for gets taken away from you when you stop subscribing. That's such a terrible business practice

[@mothie-art]

CSP has 99,9% of features I would ever need so I'll stick to what I have already purchased for as long as possible, I never really updated it every time I could anyway, I'm fine with what I have now. As to the 2.0 version... I think I'd much rather buy updates and additional resources, I hate subscription services with my whole soul, but if the price is low enough I think it woun't be too tragic for me. Idk, this feels like a betrayal, I would definitely consider spending morel money on them in some additional smaller one time purchases if there were more options for it, but why subscription... :'/

[@TrueFork]

my photoshop cs2 started not working properly since some Windows7 update to the window management that couldn't be reverted, and with Windows10 you can't even choose to stay on an OS version that works for your applications. I guess a lot will depend on when this 3.0 comes out and they stop 1.x stability updates completely. I suspect it won't take 10 years this time...

[@ZacharyNoah]

Personally, the features alone, not the one-time purchase option, were the ONLY reasons why I ever chose Clip Studio Paint in the first place. The free and open-source alternatives are just too limited for my liking, even the latest versions of Krita and GIMP.

[@ivanav.3136]

we're almost in the same boat. when i heard the news something in me dropped and i knew a line was crossed by celsys. but reading more into their plans, half vague as it is, i took from it that it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. most of the outrage online is 90% misinformed, though the rest are reasonable complaints. with the news we have now, I'm at least glad that we get to keep the stable point zero version forever free to use after buying it. as for maintenance/stability updates, well sai is still running well after all these years i can expect as much (or even more) from a software like csp.

[@corasundae]

Just buy perpetual versions. They're not stopping making them.

[@starry2819]

Wow, I was going to download Csp when I got a drawing tablet, but I think I'll have to rethink my decision because I am not made out of money 😅 Great video as always Celestia ❤

[@vancoverdeduction9032]

i recommend paint tool sai as an alternative, its made by one guy [from what i remember, but regardless its a pretty independent project] and its one time purchase.

[@starry2819]

@@vancoverdeduction9032 Thanks for the recommendation! I’ve heard it’s a good program, so I’ll look into purchasing it as an alternative

[@queenwednesdayart]

I'd also recommend Krita as a good free alternative.

[@vancoverdeduction9032]

​@@queenwednesdayart krita is ok, but from my experience its can be highly laggy and unstable even with my machine that has 16gb of ram and runs other programs smoothly.. i still support the heart of being a non-proprietary software thats free though! its a great option for people that cant afford a program, but in my opinion $52 for a independent software creator is hard to beat.

[@starry2819]

@@queenwednesdayart I will look into it, thanks!

[@lilcheesyfry]

You underestimate how scummy companies can be

[@animesubway7433]

Yeah she is acting like this low price point subscription will stay. Aren't all subscription streaming services at a loss then they start numbing it over the years. They already changed from one time to subscription so they can make the change again.

[@mura_saki]

Honestly, if csp was financially struggling they could've made way better changes than this, like raising cloud storage for a payment, a donation payment, maybe making companies pay monthly subscriptions and have independent consumers have the one time purchase model or even one time purchase of a whole version(as in 2.0, 2.1 etc) and having it not revert back to the original 2.0 if you miss a payment

[@hotcocoandart]

I'm really glad I kept Paint Tool Sai now. Makes me feel like I wasted money on CSP though

[@PikachuGirl140]

I know that feeling and it really punches you in the gut about it. I got the software specifically to work on a manga project I’ve been wanting to make for god knows how long. Now I feel like giving up my project all together. It sounds stupid that I’d give up something I’ve been wanting to work on for so long just because of some drawing software, but it has some of the best features for manga and I don’t have to pay a cent unless I use my clippy coins which I have a lot of. I didn’t want to make my manga traditionally because getting all of that stuff specifically for manga is expensive and basically impossible where I live. I can’t buy screentones in my area and I don’t know where to buy them. It’s fucking crushing to give up something that I dreamed of making, but I guess I can’t finish it if my v1 software is unusable in a couple years or so.

[@PikachuGirl140]

And I get that I’m being overly dramatic

[@PikachuGirl140]

@@lunarcat3283 oh ok. Yeah that’s understandable. Thank you for clearing that up

[@geraniumbonbon]

God i wish sai was available for mac

[@Falcon-doing-doodles]

I think it would be one thing if they said "Hey we're making CSP 2, we're going to release it separately from CSP 1, you can buy it if you want" but the way they're going about this isn't the best.

[@corasundae]

That is what they said though? Except they also said "Until we make CSP 3, if you want updates in between major versions, feel free to subscribe for the update pass"

[@dinowhale]

ipad users: get procreate: a one-time, $10 payment and you get every feature, the only downside, imo, is that you have to figure out most of the app through experience and youtube

[@yandereskitty]

Procreate is a godsend for ipad users. I can't be without it now.

[@msk-qp6fn]

For android mobile device users: Medibang, Ibispaint

[@MultiKwolf]

Procreate Paid update coming soon.

[@rabiia_art]

Is procreate gonna do the same ? I hope not , since its one time purchase.

[@dinowhale]

@@rabiia_art same

[@gabilouw8218]

Just to preface this essay, I'm not a CSP user but I have been reading a lot of criticisms about this situation and there were some things said that i disagree with 1- i do not think switching over entirely to subscription is better than having a one time payment option cause many people only do art as a hobby instead od their job and might just decide to instead purchase version 2 and have no updates, also not to mention artists that aren't american or live in poorer countries might not even be able to afford that monthly amount and would rather have a version 2 that doesn't get updated 2- The thing that I see the biggest problem being, the fact that with the subscription you won't ever OWN the program, and that's why I think that the update pass is still a better option because then at least you OWN the base program you just have to temporarily own the updates (still think this is silly and I agree that user should be able to instead purchase the updates) 3- i think CSP is also kinda forgetting about users that are kids and have their parents paying for the program, their parents might not be fond of paying a subscription just so their kid can draw, which is also why i think buying a base of a program and just having no updates anymore is better than subscription, the annual update pass will work in this case cause then it can be like a christmas present for the kid or something like that (idk just throwing out ideas) In conclusion i feel like people who defend CSP forget about artists who only do this as a hobby, minors and people who live in poor countries and can barely afford the base program

[@blazinwarrior1244]

Honestly I’m just upset that I paid for the $200 version of CSP last year. Feels like a waste of money, I would have just stuck with Medibang or waited to buy the pass instead

[@lakuma8123]

when 2.0 releases its atleast another 1time payment, i found out yesterday they added that bit of detail after a week of backlash, still sucks that you gotta pay more for it, but atleast its not a forced subscription i suppose, ive also bought the ex version this year and just, bleehhhh

[@ida5887]

Same. Well... my mom paid for it partially - for my birthday present - so now I feel kinda bad. We're a low-income household, so it was a big deal for me. I'm a freelance illustrator, not making a lot of money, and currently studying at uni - a one-time purchase was much more affordable and convenient. I used to use Krita a lot before, so now I wish I hadn't switched to CSP (even if I find CSP more practical, especially when it comes to animating). I guess I'll stay on version one as long as it works - it's good software, and perfectly sufficient for now - then I'll reconsider my options.

[@crimwolf5216]

Same I literally just got it last November

[@macarthius]

I mean as-is it's still a great software and it's difficult to think of what else I would even want from it so I wouldn't think of it as a waste. It has animation, comic tools, 3D implementation, and all the stuff you'd typically expect from an art program. Personally unless v2 can somehow surprise me with some amazing new feature I'm sticking to v1 until the perpetual license for v3 comes out. That's when they'll stop updating v1 completely but v3 will have all of v2 and the starting v3 features included so it feels like an actual upgrade.

[@corasundae]

How is it a waste of money? You got all the features it had when you bought it and the features they've made up till now. They're not taking away features. They're not taking away the program.

[@silverdrag0n_]

if i understand it correctly: the subscription model only applies to updates on version 2, so if you have the base version 2, you can still use it, it just won't be updated. i could be fully on board with having to buy a new license for ver. 2, ver. 3 etc. but i think it's a bad move to put the updates for ver. 2 behind a pay wall. it's no different than having to buy a season pass in video games to get special cosmetics and that is already a predatory business.

[@izumichan31]

The subscription is for new feature updates between major versions if you want them right away. Each major (x.0) version will be able to be purchased as is. So you could just wait until version 3.0 and all those 2.x features will be in 3.0.

[@amachii_art]

CSP had made comic creation the go-to app for comic artists. And they're the only ones so far that has one of the best asset stores for it too. They were Manga Studio before being the CSP we all knew today. As a comic creator/assistant to a comic creator, I'm still on limbo on where to stand once more clarifications will be put out. I still felt a little bit cheated since I've been using it for almost a decade and grinded a lot just to purchase the EX ver just last year (I live in a 3rd world country so it's hard to) and seeing the subscription model really dampened the respect I had for them. I'll still eye out for more info and clarifications from them and observe what will these 2.0 and up updates will cost and entails for us. And I'll still use the app. I just don't think I'll switch to any app any time soon.

[@poke-talia268]

I still have an old copy of manga studio on my barely functioning laptop. Had to be installed with a disk and everything

[@usagiislost]

As a very avid CSP user, I am beyond disappointed. I love the current version, and to be honest I'm not huge on updates- I just stick to features they already have. :/ Very disappointing, I'll be sticking with my version as long as I can.

[@TrueFork]

I'm an occasional artist, there are months that I don't draw at all and I don't need all the fancy latest features, but when they said you'll need a subscription just for stability updates is where they lost me. That means any automatic windows10 update may break my CSP. That wasn't the promise when I bought it.

[@rabiia_art]

Same , i have the v1 since 2 years im stucking to it until its not available anymore

[@tyllisvfx]

krita look real nice rn

[@StarLupus]

I was considering eventually getting CSP but some people told me on Discord that they were making it paid and pretty much that entire server hates it, I really hope that the boycotting can change this because this was definitely one of the really good programs

[@lilyofthevalley3059]

I think them maintaining the one-time purchase as an option is to incentivize casual artists who do not care so much about having the most up-to-date program to buy their product instead of giving the illusion of one-time purchase still being an option for everyone. Someone who does art as a casual thing would not necessarily be willing to pay a monthly fee to use software they may not use that month or use very little. I sure would not be willing to pay for Netflix every month if I was not sure I was going to watch it every month. Making their product subscription only would thus turn away many potential customers. The option to buy the one-time purchase version could also be a way to make their software accessible to those that do not have enough money to pay for a subscription. The update pass is a way to let all those users experience what the ones who are subscribed are experiencing. I may be wrong but until someone proves otherwise that's what I chose to believe. Edit: This is not an invitation for someone to prove me wrong. This is just my wish for there to be a good reason to maintain the one-time purchase option. Likely to be wrong but a chance to be right. Better hope for the best than suspect the worst.

[@coyoteclockworkstudios3140]

Micro-transaction hell creates pirates.

[@SacrificAbominat]

I mean you make a good point. They have one of the best programs for creating 2D art, and while the subscription model isn't really consumer friendly they're not on the level of what Adobe is charging for their programs. That being said I do think a lot of people, especially younger and less experienced artists, will move on to other programs because of this move. I personally probably won't because it a pretty big part of my workflow, but I think I'll just use version 1 until I can't use it anymore, probably 5 to 10 more years, and consider the subscription when that happens.

[@naraku971]

I've never really liked Adobe, not even for school, I fuckin' hated it.

[@corasundae]

You know you can just buy version 3 when it comes out to get all the 2.x features, right? You *never* have to subscribe.

[@accountdua9375]

@@corasundae So how much does that scummy corpo paid you to write all this comments?

[@oversizedkai14]

Wow, I'm glad I'm using Medibang paint. Although I'm a little disappointed in CSP though :(

[@_just_an_garlic_bread_]

Yay, medibang band:D! imagine if mb had brushes like csp, it would be cool(

[@oversizedkai14]

@@_just_an_garlic_bread_ i agree! Maybe us medibang users could ask the creators for some!

[@thepinapple8829]

@@_just_an_garlic_bread_ I mean they do have custom brushes that you could buy, i just want a good perspective grid

[@msk-qp6fn]

Or Ibispaint

[@blackberrycheese2928]

DAYUM, and I was just about to download clip studio paint!!!! At least I still have ibispaint x :)

[@schemesthefox1255]

Yeah, I really wanted it.

[@oliversart]

ibispaint 🙏🙏🙏

[@kiraqify]

CSP has a community that cares about this software deeply. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if they were straightforward and said "Hey. This current business model is not feasible for us long-term and something needs to change." That many people would've been happy to donate, or one-time purchase updates and improvements like you suggested. I know I would've.

[@fionna_cool_girl]

I don't even use CSP consistently but corporations are not our friends. I get you're trying to play devil's advocate and say they're not as bad as adobe because their pricing may be lower than adobe's but this type of change should not be accepted. Trying to understand their side will split the community and bring absolutely no change to a poor business model. We can't let subscription based services be tolerated no matter how small. It's not fair to the veteran users who bought it with a one time purchase and thought they'd have a quality product forever and it's not fair to new people that just don't want a subscription based program

[@corasundae]

Your product isn't going away, it's just not going to be updated eventually. And they are still going to keep making perpetual versions.

[@dreamist27]

I still have my CSP and just updated it to Pro not to long ago. Probably utilize it until the session expires (if it will happen). It is kind of disappointing to see such change, but on the bright side I definitely look forward to other alternative apps to try.

[@Marzi_Mello]

I use CSP, and see how 2.0 doesnt really affect me that much. I thought that I would have to pay for a subscription service, but I can keep using the first version. HOWEVER, I don't like the thought of CSP having a monthly payment plan. This is only because it reminds me of DLCs in video games that turned into battle passes and online services. It's so normalized, it worries me that CSP is about to do the same thing. This might set a standard for other art programs because CSP is well known. I do NOT want to buy a battle pass for CSP.

[@izumichan31]

You don't have to. Each major version will have a one time buy option. You only have to subscribe if you want live feature updates as they come out between major versions.

[@rubbish_kat]

The price is certainly still a lot more reasonable then Adobe, but it still adds up to be more then the one time purchase cost within just ONE YEAR. In my mind if you're effectively just renting something, it should be at least a few years before the cost adds up to more then outright buying. As someone who bought it earlier this year (thankfully on sale) it's extremely disappointing to hear that my software will not be supported and will become obsolete much sooner then I expected when I was sold the software with the promise of updates for the foreseeable future. (I never actually expected forever but to have that taken back within a year is pretty shitty). I would have a lot less issues with this if they hadn't effectively lied to me and everyone else who has bought the software. Don't make big promises if you cant keep them. I also don't buy that their current model is not sustainable, there are always new artists looking for affordable art programs, they can and do sell assets in their store, and they can diversify and sell other products, tools, add-ons, software etc. PLUS if the current model really isn't sustainable, they were either very stupid for not forseeing that and making the promises they did, or they KNEW and were knowingly lying the whole time. I think unfortunately this is more likely a case of the company getting bigger and shareholders getting more sway over the financial decisions, rather then a decision of necessity. Anyway I hope people hold out and don't buy the sub, at least until they either add more value or make the price cheaper, and they need to offer a better option for people that bought the software with the promise of lifetime updates. Check out Krita, check out Paint Tool Sai.

[@Falcon-doing-doodles]

Also Piracy! Even if they're doing stupid things, the products can still be good!

[@poke-talia268]

And for a free program option (though with far fewer tools, bells, and whistles) there's fire alpaca.

[@mysteriouswolven]

Let's not forget CSP also has a KZbin channel with lots of videos they're also making income from...

[@mysteriouswolven]

@@flower-ed3568 Along with youtube they have an asset store they can expand upon to offer other resources and offer classes, they can also sell merch, and they can charge entry fees for contests if they don't already. They have multiple alternative ways to make more money than subscriptions. And yeah KZbin profit can help support a company, some of the most popular channels on YT are companies...

[@mysteriouswolven]

@@flower-ed3568 KZbin is just ONE source of their income. Yes it helps, and they can use it more efficiently to make more money than they are right now. They're also currently already charging subscriptions on mobile. And they have the CSP assets store, which they could expand to offer more optional services. AND they could sell merch, hell even incorporate their contests to help design said merch. They have all that and other avenues they could take to make extra money without a subscription.

[@AveryAnarchy]

I wouldn't spend a moment giving them any benefit of the doubt or defending them-you said yourself they rival Photoshop, how can you believe they're not making enough money? They've put up many sales, contests, and have had sponsorships and run many ads. This is a big company, they are not your friend, giving them kindness only burns holes in our wallets. This move is only AGAINST artists, they have enough money, but they are a typical company, they want more. it's a very anti consumer move, and calling them capitalistic scum is 100% correct at this point. Unless they revert this they deserve to lose their user base and should. they promised their users a perpetual model forever, and broke that.

[@ChromaCee]

Do you know any other expenses CSP has other than marketing?

[@corasundae]

there is a perpetual model forever. They did not break that. *They will still be making perpetual versions.* this is why I can't take y'all seriously

[@izumichan31]

@@ChromaCee They donate to various artist resources. Pose Maniacs(an artist reference site for various poses) is one of them.

[@ChromaCee]

@@izumichan31 Anything other expenses?

[@SpookyGhostpeppers]

I still find the entire situation annoying. Even if theres some silver lining and its not AS bad as it seemed like, its still annoying to hear that my copy that I spent my hard working money on may one day just not work anymore. Apparently people are saying V3 will go back to having a one-pay option, but the flowchart itself doesnt do enough to make that any clearer. I'll still stick to CSP 1.0 for as long as i can, because I already spend most of my weekly paycheck just getting to work and back and I dont know how a subscription service for CSP, no matter how they price it, will end up affecting me financially one day if I suddenly find myself flat broke. I couldnt care less about the new features being behind the sub pay wall, its just the fear of the base program no longer functioning one day that has me clutching my pearls

[@poke-talia268]

Exactly this

[@pinkygodofwar2687]

Considering learning how to make my own art program even though i have no idea how programing works, just to spite on companies like this. I love CSP, been using it for years now, participated in their giveaways and competitions very often, but i don't appreciate being stabbed in the back.

[@princessofbalance]

I say go for it im thinking of doing that myself maybe just look about coding etc?

[@katherinehavegreen515]

SAME. I always try to learn to do as much as I can because at this point in the world I just feel like you can't trust anyone but yourself anymore. It's insane! Unfortunately proramming is one of the two only things I didn't manage to learn, but I will MOST CERTAINLY keep trying, if only to throw it on CSP's face -.-

[@JewelWildmoon]

Tbh I would've preferred if the price for a one-time payment increased rather than moving to subscriptions. The software was always praised for this and that's honestly what I'm looking for in software since I tend to use them from time to time rather than multiple times per month.

[@monivannlong968]

FYI CSP is going around 8$/month while Photoshop in photography plan (Photoshop+Lightroom) is 9.99$/month.

[@littleravendesigns5587]

Wouldn’t it be easier to have 2 versions: the basic one they already have that is a one time thing with no updates and use as is , if you want any form of updates then it costs an extra fee. Then have the new monthly based version that can do more and with included updates etc. That way artists can pick what they want and they are still being honest.

[@darkBloomful]

While i don't use Clip Paint Studio products since i cannot legally obtain them, and i'm satisifed using Medibang paint since it's user-friendly with me, i can understand both sides, but people need to also understand that, piracy may detract people from actually paying for the software, and no charge updates can mean literally having a free product at the expense of the company, they're aware of this problem, and they're not blatant about it.

[@mercurymoonn]

I love your videos sm your art is really good, and you're very well spoken! Also really good to listen to while I'm drawing :)

[@renepaniagua4882]

I’m curious if they had a part in Terms and Conditions saying that they can change their onetime payment model to whatever models of there choosing. And I think we as artist should be careful about certain things like always free or whatever words a company will say to bring in new comers. Nothing is free or will last long

[@izumichan31]

Their terms of service has always said they arent obligated to maintain or update or support the program so they could have stopped along time ago if they wanted to.

[@jittersworrywart]

Hey I just wanted to lyk that I discovered your channel today and I really like your voice and the pace at which you speak. It’s very easy to listen to and the way you offer multiple perspectives on various issues (in your art rants) is something I really admire and don’t see often. I get overwhelmed easily and it causes anxiety but your voice, the way you speak and your mature, eloquently worded “rambles” have become something I look forward to

[@mikainacup]

Wow, you are genuinely so sweet, have an amazing day stranger ^^

[@lethaldj13]

i disagree, they need to have the perpetual license. I can just chose to have a machine that stays in its own version and dont update it ever if in case the version 1 stops working on newer OS. for the same reason my dad have a very crucial software dating back from 1988 and a dedicated machine just to use that software , i think this is workable as long as they provide the perpetual license. if they remove that option i can see the number of piracy going up for CSP lol the subscription model is just really harsh i think. Not everyone makes money off of certain software.

[@pauljs75]

Sounds like money could be better spent making a donation to some open source equivalent that has a good team of devs and some inertia with an increasing user base already behind it. (Like others have said, Krita is coming in pretty strong.)

[@chuzzbot]

I wish Krita had a better donation mechanism.

[@Moonliightartist]

What a shame, I was just about to get into CSP. I guess I'll stick to Krita or...sail the high seas... HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

[@queenofmeme9536]

same

[@xx_robotkrew_xx1446]

I’m honestly just going to stick to my original copy of CSP for as long as I can. I don’t use it enough to justify spending any amount on a subscription. I am pretty… disappointed? Angry? Idk what I’m exactly feeling. It just sucks that they’re going down this road.

[@rabiia_art]

Same her i stick with my v1 on the pc. Im also angry...

[@nunyabusiness3652]

Hearing this made me think of that one artwork on Twitter where a very angry person charging at you with a knife the moment CSP made this announcement.

[@AzraelIbliz]

I am split on that, In the past you bought a CD or something similar to get the newer version of a software. Basically you have coders, UI designers, marketing and office people and such to pay their wages when you keep a product up to date. And Clip Studio might have reached a point which makes it not profitable anymore to get into new markets. So I think personally that products that are keeping getting updates will inevitable become subscription based. Basically out of a economical viewpoint. And I think if you are a company you also have to ensure that you can keep your employees payed. I think this is maybe what some people don't see which is sad since many selfsupporting artis know the struggle and angst if you don't get your payment. However I agree that it was a desaster how the communicated the whole thing, how they will do it and how they organising the switch. And I also understand this feeling of betrayl. I thought of it awesome as well when I could purchase the program once and thats's it. Maybe it is because I am from a generation which still had to purchase physical objects to get an update on software and not had always the convinecy of a product keeping up to date with one payment. So it was for me like oh so now the subscription stuff comes - meh. What I think does not go well however is the resetting to an earlier version, when you stop the subscription. This is taking away something you payed for and should absolutly not be tolerated. When I buy a program that works without subcription at a certain point in time I would be fuming when functions I payed for are suddenly gone. So in my book I am working with the version I have for now and think about switching or purchasing when the time comes, the program is not usable anymore. Maybe by then they got their sh*** together-

[@valasdarkholme6255]

> The only option that makes sense is to subscribe. Or just accept the software as-is and accept that it won't keep getting new updates (That's what I decided on). Which, wasn't a huge stretch for me because before CSP my last 2d art programs were Painttool Sai v1 and Photoshop CS6, which I got over a decade ago. The push to turn everything into a damn subscription is awful, but "you get this software as-is" is something I can accept.

[@mirabelle.a]

The reason I use clip studio is for the assets-- 3d models mostly. If those stop working with my current version I will just switch back to medibang.

[@lanuwis8131]

They can sell updates like EA sells sims expansions or content packs, so you can choose what new tools you want, and which tool you wouldn´t spend your money

[@licoricebonbon]

I love CSP (I use the pro vers. atm), and I've even been thinking about saving up to buy CSP's EX version just for the animation, but seeing this I don't think I'll be purchasing anything from them anytime soon. I'll settle for a less efficient free animation program than buying some $200 program that won't even be updated as of 2023. Scummy move CSP, do better.

[@hyukiru]

FireAlpaca is free and when I went to the program I hadn't even felt the transition for how similar they were...and firealpaca is free and open source...they could have even added things like add or things like that since it's famous enough to have tons of money in sponsorship and give extra payment to remove the add like medibang did...they just wanted our money... also idk if im right on this so is more like a speculation but the monthly payment is actually exclusive to the platform u make for it so you will need multiple pass for multiple platform (aka windows and iOS AND iPad)... I'm really not sure about this but if I am mistaken about plz let me know!

[@omegabruh673]

i love the vibe this video has- its like a little news report for artists

[@elizabethlanda5320]

I use the iPad version and I actually really love it. You can buy the pro version for 25 dollars a year which I think is incredibly reasonable. It also gives you four free months which I like because if I ever choose to not continue with the program, I will have actually SAVED money.

[@ArtWorkOfDR]

I know as a small Artist paying for anything to help with Art at times can be struggling so those who have made big purchases so that they didn't have to worry about continuously paying money out. I feel for them the most, I myself already do the low monthly payment option because it's all I can afford. It's just sad to see so many upset about the changes.

[@poke-talia268]

For me, I saved up and then bought the full version for desktop when it was on sale, under the impression that it would be a one time purchase. I wasn't concerned with feature updates, but was glad that I'd at least have perpetual access to a stable version of the program. Then with v2, if anyone wants updates on it, they have to pay, and then they have to keep paying just to keep those updates they've already paid for. That's really frustrating to me. I don't think I'll be purchasing v2, maybe if v3 is a one time purchase like v1... but for now, I'm going to keep using v1 for a long as I can and switch back to another software if I end up needing to.

[@rosesdevil6631]

Thank you for always putting out amazing and informative content!

[@schemesthefox1255]

Congrats, you’re first

[@creepywaffles4783]

2 weeks before that was announced I was SO close to buying the 50$ purchase. I was so shocked about what almost happened to my teenage jobless butt. Just feels like a huge betrayal. Luckily I had found medibang paint. This is still not really good but they could have even added paywalls to some existing things like the 3D models or something. Features that are not a necessity but nice to purchase on top of the software. I guess like dlc in games.

[@MaskedCate]

This is why I have always used medibang. Not only is if free (you have to pay for the cloud or something like that) but if you had to learn Adobe photoshop in high school (like me) it's very similar in layout. They have a desktop version and a mobile version. It's still least worth checking out if you are moving to a new software.

[@mk-aka-morgan8386]

Your videos always help me stay up to date on things happening in the art world 💖

[@zweivy243]

I mean, they did raise the price for the programme over the years. Of my friend group I got it at the cheapest rate. We all went for the discounts, the same type of discount, and still I have the cheapest version of the programme because of how early I purchased it compared to them. They could have just continued doing that, it seemed to work for them so far. And they did try to get money with the asset features, which aren't just users selling, because clip studio has a whole library of their own that they had been selling. Which also worked for them so far. I think the iPad subscription model was a bad idea, but even so, no real other art programme for the tablet was at a one time purchase rate, at the time of release (as far as I'm aware), so it only made sense for them to go with said trend. I do think it's kind of shitty that they won't update version 1 forever, which was indeed their biggest selling point and something that worked for me. I will be sticking to version 1, because I can't pay a monthly subscription no matter what (currently unemployed). But if it ever dies, I'll continue on with MediBang, if that still exists by that time.

[@Gamerblam]

So I’ve used 3 well known art programs and they all have their strengths. For Context I have used Krita, Photoshop, and CSP. In my Opinion Krita is a good contender as it is free, however for me it only lasted so long till I wanted to try a new variety of brushes. CSP and Photoshop are great with the variety of brushes and various other things made for them. Photoshop to me is just an industry standard, since it was the program I used in school a lot and typically looks good on an artist’s resume. CSP caught my eye as it wasn’t subscription and I’ve heard it from artist I follow, so I gave it a try. In a Nutshell I used the three programs at once for each step in a drawing at one point. CSP - Sketching and Drawing Krita - Coloring and some shading Photoshop - Effects and background stuff (Clouds, water, etc)

[@theperiidot]

Join the krita gang, and together we will rule the world That was a half joke, everyone who's paid for csp absolutely needs to get back what they've paid for, there shouldn't be a subscription paywall for future updates

[@trachinusdraco]

The one time payment long ago used to be great. Nowadays we have krita etc. that can basically do what these subscription based programs do.

[@chockitkat3776]

I honestly don't really enjoy CSP, I find it hard to use but if anyone needs a good free software, I really recommend Krita. The software is still free with so many different brushes and is so professional. I literally love Krita now and I think anyone should support Krita if you need a good, free software. They have improved so much and I love the brushes and the canvas!

[@nerahamzah8170]

I agree with you 100%... I also don't mind paying one time purchase for every new versions / series or if they hike up the price for the one time purchase options... Cos it's similar to Adobe's past models before they switch to the cloud & subscription model they have now...

[@puppy5463]

I'm holding on to ibis for dear life

[@randomcoyotestudios986]

I'll definitely stop supporting them, precisely because I was irritated when Adobe went to subscription service and CSP (then Manga Studio) was supposed to be the antithesis to that. Now the rug has been pulled out from beneath us. But one of the BIGGEST reasons I won't jump on their subscription service is because too many things in our lives are moving towards monthly subscription services. Our very lives are becoming an endless march of toll roads just to get through a normal day, and frankly, enough is enough. If we slouch our shoulders and go along with it, this will never stop. Will a few thousand comic artists turn a tide? Probably not, but Imma gonna do what I can in my small way in this world.

[@chuzzbot]

Same

[@Kingyundi]

I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say IF IT WAS ABOUT NEEDEDING MONEY TO CONTINUE!? Most people would gladly donate or pay 100 instead of the 50 etc. Id rather pay for updates I need rather than random stuff "want the new liquify brush pay 20$" etc. We don't even get to keep updates if we stop the subscriptions. They built their community off of the idea that they wouldn't do a subscription so the hate isn't unwarranted. Betrayal is still betrayal

[@Kingyundi]

I would like to ad if they were struggling maybe they need to first stop giving 10k monthly for cup tips or doing these give aways first

[@sporeolegy]

They should sell 2.0 and updates as perpetual expansion packs

[@riotwire]

I'm not a professional artist, but procreate on the ipad is awesome and I couldn't ask for anything more, and it's only $10, at least when I bought it a few years ago it was. Medibang is also great, it's free with ads or $10 to remove ads.

[@crimsondragon1794]

yeah no, this system is trash. there is many other ways they could have done this without going for a subscription. they went subscription because they wanted the money from it. I will never pay them for a sub. if i have to pay a sub I'd much rather dish out a bit more for the adobe industry standard. not for this program which has stabbed everyone in the back. and then act like we don't understand the betrayal for what it is. no matter how you spin it. we were promised lifetime updates. and now they are going. screw our legacy holders. let's go sub. despite knowing how disastrous this was for photoshop. no artist should have to RENT the TOOL they need to do artwork.

[@yourmajestyjohn]

i mean, they had the money to buy their numerous ads/sponsorships lately so it seems like they're not missing any money

[@ZirconiaGacha]

I used Kleki. It's a web program that can be a bit janky at times, but I usually start by sketching on paper so I just trace my own lineart and all (or if I'm doing a base fill I just put the base in and make a layer under it). I don't need to subscribe to anything with it being free and all, and while it would be a bit hard to adjust to it is usable. But THIS really got me. If you're going to add a subscription to something that was a one-time payment thing, make it optional. If Kleki were to do something like that I would expect it to be a few extra features. But changing basically nothing except for "lol you have to pay up each month/year now" isn't something you should do.

[@midnightstories5695]

Are you sure this correct we in the 7th month now and I just ungraded from 1 to 2 on a peripheral license of $15 no mention of it being downgraded ?

[@kayliraine8470]

this makes me really sad because I just spent my own summer job money (I’m a high school junior) on CSP and now I feel like it was a huge waste :(

[@hiddenbruh]

Krita is a good alt, it may not have all the features of CSP but it free and it doesnt have near the big budget of CSP.

[@ChrisDMReloaded]

i do not support piracy , but this sub thing made me reconsider it . i will never pirate a one time purchase product but a sub one is something i cannot afford so i might do it in that case.

[@drop-cat.33]

Literally just now finally decided to get the full version today and looked up which version to get(pro/ex) and this is what i see:|

[@davidrice4639]

Goddammit! This is especially a blow to the nuts for me since I literally just bought Pro yesterday because of the week-long discount! Plus, I just found out that there's no way to get a refund according to the terms of agreement

[@860crazyboy]

Thank you so much Sensei! You are a blessing!

[@izumichan31]

There are errors here. Stability updates will always be free. Its only "feature updates" between major versions that will be subscription. Each major (x.0) version will have a one time buy option. You ONLY have to subscribe if you want live feature updates between major versions. So if you don't need the new features between each major version you could just wait until the next x.0 version. Also CSP never promise free updates forever. Just a one time payment that you own forever. Their TOS has always said they arent obligated to update maintain or even support CSP. They just did for 10 years.

[@Ghost_withthe_most]

When i got my chromebook to draw on the go Im not a fan of the subscription based thing since cromebooks CSP uses a subscription but i use the yearly subscription while the program on my PC is the one time payment. When they announced the 2.0 and 3.0 it rubbed me the wrong way and when they made the update subscription based i wasn't happy. When you mentioned buying the program in v2 or v3 and buying the updates or a tool bundle would be fine that way i could save up and get those tools when needed instead of forgetting to renew the payment method and loosing all abilities of the program. hopefully things will become more clear as time goes by because i love CSP but if they make it not affordable or something i cant use then i might either get the yearly subscription if they offer it or us Paint tool Sai.

[@anversailles]

The biggest scam CSP did was the subscription for updates. Makes no sense to permanently purchase v2 when you won’t get 2.1x updates if you dont subscribe. I’m fine with permanently buying v2 if it has good features like cloth simulation or particle effects, but I’ll be damned if I have to sub on top of the v2 purchase just to get updates. Just let v2 have all v2 updates and then make customers buy v3 if you want another. Worse still, is that they revert you back to 2.0 if you stop paying for updates. WTF? The asset store makes them a lot of money on top of the license purchase. They’re not wholly dependent on just license sales.

[@Winterfang]

I don't know much about this channel but I just subscribe because of how through your knowledge is. The art looks great and I enjoyed seeing the process.

[@chickishot8172]

The issue with version 2 is worse because if you stop paying it isn’t reverted back to base version 2 it gets reverted back to version 1. They deserve all the hate they are getting. They are NOT hurt for money, in fact they literally do contests monthly and annually that give away thousands of dollars (annually $3,000 manga contest, monthly tutorial contests $900, etc). They also make money off Clip Studio assets.

[@iblobliboo8501]

KRITA GAAANG!!!!

[@lycaonking4250]

I think I'm in a situation where this news doesn't really bother me - I got 2 free years of CSP when buying my tablet, and I only payed $40~ for the one time purchase because of that tablet bundle. V1.0 works just fine for me and maybe in a few years I can buy the annual pass after multiple update versions are released if the new features are that good, that way once the subscription expires it goes back to the most recent version, not back to 1.0 from what I understand. Though I understand the brand loyalty aspect of the situation and how they shot themselves in the foot

[@SketchPLAY1]

One saving grace is that they should upgrade everyones base Pro version to EX atleast, and all who bought base EX get 2.0 free upgrade, something to that nature, and then after the year is up, commence with these different subscription upgrade passes possibly? If that doesent seem workable please give some thoughts Ijust thought of that on the fly . Not my intention to derail OP so apologies in advance.

[@BrandyBrans]

Here's my main issue- they could have walked back the perpetual updates and limited them to simple updates and patches, and then developed their clip studio 2 and 3 as new perpetual licenses with new features artists would find valuable. Instead, they're sunsetting 1.0, leaving it to die a slow strangling death, whilst pushing this subscription model with a version that I don't necessarily know has anything superior to the feature already in 1.0. I guess if the monthly plan is as competitive as you make it sound it won't be to expensive to find out. Guess we'll see. But yeah, CSP stabbed it's userbase in the back and I'm inclined not to purchase any more of they're products if I can find reasonable alternatives.

[@wallyww6149]

I will just stick with my current permanent version. It took me a lot of time save the money to finally buy it this year. Tbh I also doubt I can afford any subscription base software at all

[@youtubeisapublisher6407]

I consider subscription based services to be a bad-faith move in-and-of themselves, unless they are intended to eventually lead to a final purchase or a total amount of money paid before the product is 100% yours. To hold someone in a subscription in perpetuity is to admit that you don't want them to EVER own the product that they're paying for. It's not enough that they pay you once to own the thing, you want them to pay for the rest of their lives, and you can increase the price whenever you please, up to and including past the point where they can afford it, so they will either compromise their life to keep paying or simply become excluded from even having your product anymore. All of this acts to create a living environment for people in which they can no longer be certain of anything they have, if they own none of it then any of it can be taken away from them for any reason or no reason. The logical end conclusion of these practices is that eventually you will own nothing at all, and you'll constantly have to be anxious about juggling all your subscriptions so you don't lose access to your transportation, housing, or even the very tools you need to pursue your trade. Seems like a deeply unhealthy way to live.

[@foxtail7363]

"You will own nothing and be happy"

[@izumichan31]

They'll still have perpetual licenses for each major (x.0) version. So you do still have the option to "own" your copies. You don't have to subscribe if you don't want to.

[@SeafishNeko]

Clip Studio already has everything I need and more.

[@kaya_king]

I do virtual art as a side job and a hobby so i dont use it as much as I'd like to but clip studio paint is the one i got really comfortable with guess ill wait til the one i have gets obsolete and see if i want to stick with it. Its an understandable move but basically the one will have will become the basic version and if we want more we'll have to pay

[@officialtollilion6627]

For me, it wasn't only that csp is one-time purchase, but also that I actually CAN NOT pay for subscriptions. I CAN NOT pay every time for an update, it's just not possible for me. They accept their payment in dollars and I'm in Poland. When I bought CSP, it wasn't $40, no it was 200 pln because of the currency. Even if they said "give us 10 dollars a month", that's still 50 pln in Poland. So CSP was the program for me to pay 200 once and not worry about not having money to pay each month.

[@neosc2523]

LONG LIVE to OpenSource software, LONG LIVE KRITA ;)

[@flamiaminu5536]

Once again, the solution to the problem is the same: 🏴‍☠

[@nanakomatsu7425]

Just run it in compatibility mode for previous versions.