Why Atomic Heart Fails To Live Up To Its Inspiration

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Atomic Heart and Bioshock are two games that are inexorably linked across time, one established many genre conventions we still use to this day and defined an entire era of gaming, the other feels compelled to replicate and improve upon as much of Bioshock's success as possible, but somehow misses what made it's inspiration so cherished - what gives? How could Atomic Heart, a game with such clear reverence for Bioshock, not understand what made Bioshock great? Well, the answer lies in the ever-tricky to understand Metagame.
The Architect has had to plunder multiple dystopias, command vast armies and even scrabble through a few fourth walls in order to truly understand what makes Metagames so special and also what makes them so tricky to get right. Maybe, the success of a metagame lies not in how complex it is, or even how balanced it is, but in how it makes us think, and how fun it is to figure out?
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You Saw:
Atomic Heart- 2023
Resident Evil 8 -2021
Bioshock - 2007
Bioshock 2 - 2010
DOOM Eternal - 2020
Psychonauts 2 - 2021
Warhammer Total War 3 - 2022
Neon White - 2022
Xenoblade 3 - 2022
Counter Strike: Global Offensive - 2012
Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access
Monster Hunter: World - 2018
Slay the Spire - 2019
Minecraft - 2011
Teardown - 2022
Persona 5 Royal - 2019
Genshin Impact - 2020
Dwarf Fortress - 2023
Half Life Alyx - 2020
Pikmin 3- 2013
The Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe- 2022
Gears Tactics - 2020
Pokemon Fire Red - 2004
Dark Souls 3 - 2016
Elden Ring - 2022
Dishonored 2 - 2016
Portal 2 - 2011
Dune: Spice Wars - Early Access
Rounds - 2021
Starcraft 2 - 2012
Super Smash Brothers Ultimate - 2018
Dota 2 - 2013
Rivals of Aether - 2017
The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim - 2011
Deus Ex - 2000
Deathloop - 2021
XCOM 2 - 2014
Across The Obelisk - 2022
Monster Train - 2021
Magic The Gathering: Arena - 2018
Potionomics - 2022
Rimworld - 2018
The Long Dark - 2014
Subnautica: Below Zero - 2021
Don't Starve - 2013
Transistor - 2014
ARK: Survival Evolve - 2015
Escape From Tarkov - Early Access
Destiny 2 - 2017
Fallout 4 - 2015
Pokemon Emerald - 2004
Phantom Brigade - 2023
Prey - 2017
Surviving Mars - 2018
Cities Skylines - 2015
Oxygen Not Included - 2017
Path of Exile - 2013
Enter The Gungeon - 2016
Hades - 2020
Against The Storm - Early Access
Hitman 3 - 2021
Evolve - 2015
Hand of Fate 2 - 2017
Hi-Fi Rush - 2023
Terra Nil - 2023

[@ArchitectofGames]

This is going to be a contentious comments section, give me some cash on patreon so I can buy some frazzles to soothe my psyche?: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames Want to ask me why I didn't talk about bioshock infinite and then have me laugh at you? Come to twitter!: twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot

[@FelisImpurrator]

Maybe you should do a follow-up in more detail on bad examples of metagaming - particularly, the "meta slave" phenomenon, in which the optimal solution isn't fun, but it is so far beyond anything else that players end up doing it anyway, whether it's optional but efficient, or actively made mandatory by a poor approach to difficulty scaling.

[@wicked5999]

​@@FelisImpurrator goats in overwatch, hit hard never die

[@SimuLord]

Bioshock Infinite...a game that would've been a dozen times better than it was if it wasn't trying so hard to be a Bioshock game. There are so many good design ideas executed poorly, like you can see the great game there but it's covered in a layer of engine grease scraped off the floor of a mechanic's shop so you don't want to touch it.

[@benedict6962]

This is why I really hate equipment with miniscule stat differences. No, I don't care that this boobplate has 2 more STR than the chainmail. If I need to reroll every single piece of gear to stack stats for a build that boils down to "make this one skill hit hard", then the effort:reward ratio is too skewed to be worth playing.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

@@SimuLord pretty sure there was a lot of scrapped and redevelopment which resulted it going less ambitios .

[@creativityduodenal]

"A great video game trapped inside a terrible one" is the best description for Ark I have ever heard.

[@TheKarishi]

A too-careful devotion to balance is often trouble for the metagame scene. Far better to have "every upgrade is busted in its own way," which makes all the directions you can go feel good to pick and everything you're giving up even temporarily feel like a major cost. Upgrades like "+2% crit chance" on skill trees are honestly filler and devs should avoid having them if they can help it. Give us that single +30% crit node and make us decide between that, or a robot we can summon every 20 seconds who tanks aggro for a bit and then explodes, or the ability to teleport 20' in any direction every 10 seconds.

[@wassentme1891]

Yes! I was surprised when my kid brother said he liked his favorite game because it was unbalanced.

[@de_g0od]

Teleport, duh How unbalanced your proposition is!

[@KerupukKeju]

This is why I like Dota, every hero is bonkers

[@hackcubit9663]

I agree, powerful effects that I have a limited ability to invest in beats minuscule effects that I'll eventually be able to afford every day of the week. In fact if a game offers me upgrades that increase something by 5% or less I'm extremely likely to be unimpressed and disappointed.

[@FireFox64000000]

Funny thing is we can see this as early as some Street fighter 2 mods. The more Insanity you give your player the more fun than have.

[@jearn11]

The fun of meta gaming doesn't exist on the screen _points at screen with gun_ or even in the engine _points at engine with gun_ but in our heads _fucking headshots a dude_

[@Daemonworks]

Yeah, that one deserves a slowclap.

[@Eddytor]

that was amazing hahah So many fun editing jokes that are easily missed yet so great

[@PragmaticAntithesis]

I think another aspect of metagaming that causes metagaming-focused games to fall flat so often is that a well balanced game doesn't offer the fun of being able to break the game wide open and blaze through the later parts of the content.

[@stevenneiman1554]

I remember getting turned off of a board game once because of that. I think it was called X-wing, it's about controlling a squadron of starfighters and using positioning to get the drop on the other player. The stuff you could spend squadron points on was interesting and even felt diverse to play, but the point budget wasn't quite enough to get up to any serious build shenanigans and a few things that would have made for fun combos were deliberately blocked off by the faction rules.

[@MD-yd8lh]

​@@stevenneiman1554 homerules.aybe you good game designer but dont know about it

[@MattRose30000]

The most fun in every Magic The Gathering release is finding the (potentially broken) two card combos that instantly win you the game. Playing with that combo though gets significantly less fun after the first couple times you pulled it off. So yeah, let the players do silly stuff only in small doses.

[@SimuLord]

This, interestingly, is a hidden appeal in Early Access games, especially those with a fairly self-perpetuating core gameplay loop (currently waiting for the next update for My Time At Sandrock, a Harvest Moon-like-or a craft-em-up, or whatever it is we're calling that genre-where I have a character I've had since the game first launched last May blasting through any new content in a single Saturday session. The ability to get straight into what's next when the game moves closer to release without having to start a whole new playthrough is a tangential but related part of that "steamroller effect."

[@firewalkwithjuno5421]

I actually find this to be quite aggravating, when the game can't meet the often very interesting tools given to you

[@_kalia]

The actions in the Hitman clip following your monologue absolutely sent me!

[@zorinzorinzorin5243]

That scene alone was worth a second like on the video. I’ll have to find a way to log into my old KZbin account.

[@BagelBoi4000]

19:22, funny af

[@dvdbox360]

19:50 "meta game is a weird beast"

[@arthurdurham]

Got here so early I apparently went back in time and getting original KZbin resolution. I should see if my old 2G phone is working to watch it to really make the experience

[@ArchitectofGames]

It makes my bioshock footage look really authentically 2007

[@arthurdurham]

​@@ArchitectofGames Hahah almost like you did this on purpose!

[@AniGaAG]

There's two more important aspects that can ruin this sort of thing, I feel. a) Skill trees done badly in games where they don't even belong, just because... nothing, just 'cause skill tree. b) Obsession with "balance" in what is a singleplayer game as if it was a fairness-optimized multiplayer game.

[@mafiacat88]

I feel like skilltrees are rarely actually...fun to interact with. It just seems like so often there are, say, 40 nodes-but 35 of them are all "2% fire rate" or "3% less damage to fire". like, no. Give me six nodes, each with a big upgrade, and only 3-4 upgrade points. I will never be excited to get 2% crit. I will absolutely look forward to "Triple damage on headshot", even if it takes ten times as long to get.

[@SimuLord]

Obsidian got this concept right in the perk system for Fallout: New Vegas compared to Fallout 3, outright removing most of the "perk makes number go up" perks and putting in perks that were far friendlier to role-playing and specific build types. Then managed to completely forget every lesson in The Outer Worlds. Cue the LeBron/JR Smith "wtf face" meme.

[@user-xx6vy9ri8p]

Well this time skill tree is horny...

[@vidux6289]

Don't just make the numbers go up... Increase the amount of options, fuel the creativity, give me a choice between 2 great things, I won't be able to sleep thinking "What if I chose the other one?", and I'll come back to try it out. What's important is what you can miss : BOOM, unique experiences & replayability. I'm always conflicted on the subject of metagaming. I'm looking for that first time experience, the innocence of not knowing, because it's often one of the best experience. I'm also a sucker for "immersion" and I tend to oppose it to metagaming. Or I'll metagame, prepare builds so that I can play in a more immersive way. I agree that sometimes the preparation, the idea of a build is more fun that playing it, that's why I spend so much time building pokemon teams or skyrim characters. That screen, engine, head bit was gold.

[@saintallison]

"Meta-gaming for immersion" is a great way to phrase it, thank you!

[@theunnamedaccount4009]

I completely agree. I've always felt that the most fun I have in Pokemon games is designing and catching my team. As soon as I have a set of fully evolved 6, the game suddenly becomes a lot more boring. It's one of the reasons why I love hardcore nuzlockes, as you constantly have to change your team and adapt to what the game gives you

[@helplmchoking]

Yeah I enjoy playing them (despite nearing 30, Sw/Sh was my first but have since gone as far back as hgss and loved them all) but I've never, ever found them a challenge. Even though people like to complain about the newer games being "too easy" with exp share, catch exp and all that, I've never found any of them a challenge. Maybe BW2's challenge mode was a bit tougher but even then, it's the same basic rock paper scissors logic as always. You show up to each gym with something the right type that's fast and does enough damage and you will always win, it's as true for Platinum as it is for Scarlet. Which is why I started a nuzlocke run, even though I despise losing loads of progress because I know I'll never try again, but limiting your team and removing items gives it at least some challenge.

[@qlockwerk553]

I really enjoy creating synergies in Inscryption, because most synergies are so abstruse that finding them is really rewarding

[@risottonero4501]

gameplay wise this game is fantastic

[@Kmosely42]

THANK YOU FOR DEFINING 'META' CORRECTLY!!! Im tired of everyone saying that its the "Most Effective Tactics Available" when it just a prefix for any word that means anything outside of itself but still referencing to itself. While in the strictest terms it does mean talking about itself, we often use it to describe things that aren't the thing specifically but still in reference to said thing.

[@pieterfaes6263]

15:20 Ok, but in Hades' defense, this progression system is kinda transitory, as later on it introduces a new metagaming mechanic in the Pact of Punishment where you can tailor your runs to be increasingly more difficult for better rewards - including turning off the very skills you're not a fan of. You could say the skill improvements are more there to smoothen the path between learning the game and bashing Theseus' head in repeatedly and effortlessly, that bloody s-

[@arronalt]

it also serves as a way to buff players with less motor skills to accommodate a broader audience so its more a "pros and cons" thing

[@Alphasoldier]

The problem pointed out is that Hades makes you pick between having a good run, and perhaps in the future having a better run. It's not a fair choice. Progression should come through playing the game, not through sacrificing fun for possible future fun. It's flat out bad design.

[@arronalt]

@@Alphasoldier ah so I guess the argument is you shouldn't be able to sacrifice a good run strategy for more upgrades makes sense

[@scorpioneldar]

@@arronalt See I disagree. I think the choice between long term profit and short term reward is a big part of what makes hades so special. if you want to beat the game you have to go for the good run (at least 10 times) so the question to the player on every run becomes. do you feel ready? did what you get this time make you belive you can get far enough to make sacrificing future power worth it? are you prepared for the climb? furthermore it also gives you something to keep running for even on a scuffed run. most rougelikes you can tell pretty early into a run if you can clear once you get used to them. if there is nothing to gain in the run for the next one. you just quit out until you roll what you want/need. with Hades. no matter how crap your build it is worth pushing on. This is particularly a problem in slay the spire as if your first 5 or so cards don't really synergize you can pretty clearly conclude you can't even clear the first boss. so you might quit on room 5 or 6. but in hades you can get more resources to make your next run better. If your not gonna clear anyway. why not focus on getting those few gems you need for a new healing fountain. or that darkness that give you just that little extra boost. Sure maybe Meg will get you this time but she might say something different. perhaps before you reach her you can get that key that lets you try out that bow you been eyeing. and yeah I know Meg is early game. already cleared the postgame. but the point remains. yes this run might be doomed but what can I do with the time/rooms I still have. is an experience that can only exist if there is a progression system.

[@gunnarschlichting9886]

@@Alphasoldier For Hades though, you are either choosing between choices that benefit your current run (Boons, money, bonus max health, etc) or choices that lead to permanent progression (Darkness, Keys, etc). You are never forced to choose between short or long term benefit, with the only exception being some of the shops (including always the final shop) and a songle Boon from Dionysis, which provides bonus max health for picking up a certain long term resource and therefore benefits both the short and long term for picking that specific item.

[@deoxxys]

My favorite part of Adam's videos is that he brings up systems in other games that make you want to play those games 🎉

[@Flameo326]

I think another aspect to consider with Metagaming is choice paralysis and / or FOMO. It's definitely interesting for players to have to make a choice and live with the consequences, but it can be difficult, stressful and off-putting, for me at least, when I can't be sure what the consequences of a decision will really do, especially in the early game. I think choice paralysis and / or FOMO can be alleviated by not allowing the player to see every decision they'll make in the future or by allowing them to quickly and easily make different choices, as well as just educating the player about what impact each choice is going to have, and I mean REALLY educating the player. A simple "+5% Crit" tooltip doesn't really convey how the game will be different, but letting them actually play with the decision helps the player understand it's impact prior to committing.

[@madsyon]

Choice paralysis and FOMO are exactly the reasons why I disagree with the metagame focus. I want a game where the actual game is fun, I don't need massive head-scratching and pain because the meta-game has to be interesting, too. For me, I really did not like Bioshock. It felt pretty hard and building your character out in different ways always felt too compromising. I *want* that feeling where I am getting stronger through the game on a pretty 1D axis. My actual life is full of "meta-game", I don't need that in my game. For example, take DOOM (the original), or Half-Life 2. Fabulous games, no "meta-game" and great fun. As I said... Bioshock: big let-down for me. But then, maybe I am a different player here. Plus... I have limited time in my life. I don't want to do another run through the game with a different build just to struggle in different places. That is not why I game.

[@samfriend3675]

@@madsyon In which case, you're not the target audience of these sorts of games - the fact that DOOM and Half Life 2 did well despite lacking this component shows that games don't need metagaming to be good, but the huge success of Bioshock tells you that people like it. No one likes everything, and its alright to have something not be to your taste. This wasn't really a discussion of "How all games should be", but rather "How games focusing on making long term builds should be" - which is an important distinction.

[@madsyon]

@@samfriend3675 Fair point. I think I did misunderstand the premise. To me it seemed to suggest that every good game needs to have great metagame, which is of course silly. Maybe I was also placing Bioshock (and Atommic Heart) into the wrong category of game and thus was a bit disappointed / didn't get the hype. All fair points, thanks! That said, I do enjoy some metagame-heavy games from time to time, NetHack being one of them. I guess in Bioshock, I was expecting more HL2 and less NetHack ;)

[@samlewis6487]

I personally love the way Control handles this type of thing because your core gun literally change into entirely different types of guns based on how you upgrade it, which helps make the differences in build feel genuinely distinct

[@MaticTheProto]

But the ultimate weapon remains: big rock

[@leaf6695]

control is a terrible example, the game has a single build and that build is ROCK

[@richardvlasek2445]

except the gun in control is trash no matter how you upgrade it and chucking physics objects at enemies is the only way to play unless you want everything to take years to die

[@Tigersight0]

@@richardvlasek2445 What game were you guys playing? Throwing stuff at enemies was cool and useful, but the gun and other abilities were great too. Popping a couple pistol headshots against enemies from a distance so you could take them over and have them draw enemy fire, throwing up some cover to get in close, land a melee attack to stagger, then shotgun blast to tear them up... There were lots of ways to do things, just throwing a couple rocks here and there and waiting for your energy to recharge between would make every fight incredibly tedious and not fun at all.

[@MegStatic]

I was a playtester for Atomic Heart. The biggest issue i had with it was it just wasn't fun, it felt like a chore to complete.

[@greghuffman3061]

haven't played it, but it looks cool... shame the play doesn't live up to that

[@bpansky]

that's how most games look to me these days

[@ogpandamonium]

I have a huge problem with skill trees: They're too big. There are always so many options and things that i can unlock after the first choice that I end up just buying random skills rather than making any strategic choice.

[@LimeyLassen]

The reason those trees are so big is because most of the nodes don't matter.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Which is a thing Bioshock solved by giving you a few options per level, and one new at a time.

[@cherubin7th]

My problem is that every game now thinks they need it.

[@wicked5999]

90% of skill trees in every game are uninteresting to me

[@stevenewsom3269]

I hate when it has moves I cant unlock for a while and by the time I do, I've already taught myself a different strategy that I forget to use the one I unlocked when I eventually do.

[@abrittishpanfish6269]

One game I've been playing with fun metagaming has been Library of Ruina, a card game where you take the cards used by enemies after killing them, so you have to regularly compare the new stuff to what you already have and see if anything is synergistic or needs replacing

[@swordmain1880]

First Project Moon mention I see on this comment section. Based

[@manzokutakayu3477]

​@@swordmain1880 Project Moon fans are everywhere.

[@yikes6758]

the polymer jet sounds a lot like slag in borderlands 2, a debuff you could apply with any "slag" weapon that causes enemies to take more damage from other elemental attacks. in theory this is a neat combo mechanic, but with the abundance (and general meta-dominance) of certain elemental weapons, and the fact that slag weapons on their own still dealt competent damage, it became basically mandatory to carry a slag weapon as one of your 4 weapon slots. this compounds with Salvador's meta dominance (a character whose special ability is to dual wield any two weapons he has equipped) since he could simultaneously apply slag and use elemental weapons without having to switch they fixed this in borderlands TPS/3 with Cryo, a slag-replacement that requires you to fully apply the status effect (freezing the opponent) before you can gain its benefits, and is a status effect that most bosses can't fully receive. on top of that, instead of buffing elemental damage, it instead increased critical hit, explosive, and melee damage, making it uniquely synergistic with specific build types as opposed to universally mandatory.

[@GameGod77]

I can understand why you don't like meta-progression in rogue-likes, but I think it's dismissive to assume the choice between progression currency and an ability for your current run isn't an interesting choice.

[@QuintonMurdock]

There are so many times when he talks about what games could do to make things more fun and like..in almost every video essay I’m like BRING UP DEEPROCK, IT HITS THAT NOTE PERFECTLY

[@finpospilil9621]

I don't like deep rock galactic

[@QuintonMurdock]

@@finpospilil9621 congrats. Here’s a cookie

[@finpospilil9621]

@@QuintonMurdock thanks 🙂

[@nobro6971]

Deep Rock is a good game. It's not an amazingly fun one by any means though, sadly.

[@bugjams]

@@nobro6971 opinion noted. 98% positive reviews say otherwise, however. a milquetoast good game would have scores more around 80%.

[@TheDwarvenDefender]

When the streamer that I'm closest to started playing the game, I obviously noticed the numerous simillarities to the _Bioshock_ games, but something just felt... off about the whole thing. Something just wasn't right. Maybe it was just a little too close to the inspiration for me...?

[@AMan-xz7tx]

it was innovative in improving the parts they copied, but completely lacking in terms of the ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL core principles that those parts originally represented, the decisions were smart but without passion

[@Nezul]

So glad you gave a shoutout to Umami, came across his channel by accident over a year ago and watched The Interface all in one go. It's so good

[@tylerhammond4947]

I don't know why but always hearing Chao at the end of the patreon reading is so charming. Thanks Chao, idk how you got that honor, but thanks

[@SimuLord]

I hope Chao, whoever they are, continues to have a successful life IRL so they can continue to support this channel. They've earned the karmic boost from the gods.

[@tengkualiff]

19:30 that sync was perfect

[@yyBoByy]

I don't remember where I heard this quote, but it goes something like this: "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of any game."

[@dj_koen1265]

I think it was the designer of civ if i remember correctly Which is ironic because i find those games really boring

[@JeffHanke]

That screen/engine/head quote combined with the visuals. *chef's kiss*

[@John-bb4zm]

I think you might be wrong about metagaming. As i understand it its commonly misused to mean playing well, but good gaming is still just regular gaming. Meta strategies have to be above the level of the game, or about the nature of the game rather than the game itself. For example building a strong deck out of good cards is regular gaming. Building a specialized deck out of weak cards that hard-counters the set of tournament winning decks you expect to encounter is metagaming, because your strategy is formulated based on information external to the game. In this context optimizing a skill tree with information from within the game is just regular character progression, maybe barely scraping meta if you checked a wiki Your examples of multiplayer games like counterstrike or starcraft are such good metagaming examples not because A or B is a question about what YOU should do, but because its a question about what your opponent WILL do. Know your enemy and know yourself, and you need not fear the skill gap of a thousand battles. One thousand rounds crouching behind corners with a shottie- one thousand victories. Which of course in-game is the same regular strategy over and over, same as winning because you can click heads better. the meta part is knowing that you can click heads better, or knowing how to pick which door

[@richardclegg8027]

Yes. When I first heard the theme it was about magic the gathering and it was really knowing what decks were popular right now. By knowing the meta you know what you were most likely to encounter and could shift your style to something that would work against that. The meta was the evolution of the behaviour of the players of the game and the strategies that this made.

[@stevenneiman1554]

4:15 weirdly, tabletop roleplaying uses the word in a completely different way, as a pejorative term for acting on information which the person talking doesn't think you should act on, generally but not exclusively using information that you have but your character doesn't to gain an unfair advantage.

[@themaxpanteraschannel9459]

At the end it's still "Meta-gaming", using informations that go "beyond" the game, to gain an (unfair) advantage. Considering that in tabletop RPG you already have a core portion of the active gameplay dedicated to "Meta-gaming" (ex. How do I want to face X encounter? What do I say and how do I say it to Y person?), it ends up getting used for the more practical act of using information that you know, but your character doesn't. If you really think about it, it may even be the same kind of Meta-gaming: you're using your personal skills, knowledge and experience to succeed in something, while being disconnect from the actual gameplay for a moment. Is there any difference between bringing a fire spell to a dungeon full of zombies because you, player, know from other unrelated sessions that zombies are usually weak to fire and specializing in electrical damage before facing a robot because, usually, robots are weak to it in other videogames? It's still the same concept in both cases

[@stevenneiman1554]

@@themaxpanteraschannel9459 Thing is, D&D HAS a metagame as the term is used in video games, we just use the term to refer to something largely unrelated. Some use of out of character knowledge is strategic and some isn't.

[@realname8362]

​@@stevenneiman1554 They're the same general thing, using knowledge about the wider system to make the best possible choices, it's just a different degree of tolerance. Tabletop RPGs putting way more emphasis on actually playing the role of a character kind of requires players to not just magically know everything about every monster, spell or general mechanic. Tabletop wargames have a basically identical definition of metagaming to videogames, being way more lax when it comes to immersion. It's more "this is when you are metagaming too hard" than "this is when you are metagaming".

[@stevenneiman1554]

@@realname8362 They're not the same thing at all. You can use inappropriate knowledge to make high level decisions. You can use inappropriate knowledge to make low level decisions. You can respect the boundaries of what knowledge you're expected to use when making high level decisions. You can respect the boundaries of what knowledge you're expected to use when making low level decisions. The two things have nothing to do with each other.

[@MakDemonik]

Skill trees is the cancer of modern "RPG element games". They are usually excuses for being able to slap the RPG tag onto a game. From Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk to games like Atomic heart. Developers just add a menu with icons that give +5% to damage repeatedly and call it "character development". While some games attempted to add mechanically diverse perks for such systems (e.g. Prototype) sometimes it worked allright, but sometimes its just a way to forcefully spread a lack of content over a longer play time by gating it behind locked perks. Things that the character should be able to do from the beginning. It's a sorry excuse of a game mechanic and supposedly """"Good"""" games like witcher etc should be ashamed to steep that low.

[@diewott1337]

I think calling it a cancer is a bit too much. Boring? Yes. Cancer? Not really.

[@MakDemonik]

@diewott1337 well cancer in the way that... It started small with some games. Then publishers noticed you can put lazy +3% dmg perks or basic moveset unlocks into games and market it as "rpg" for a fake boost in interest. Then it kept spreading and spreading into games that have no business having them in the first place like assassins creed etc (it never needed levels and scaling damage) So games that would be fine. Added pointless grind to them. And games that had the potential to be good rpgs if given interesting systems would become lazy slops because why put effort into something if the lazy bare minimum skill tree is "enough to be counted as rpg given the current market" Which in my eyes (opinion ofc) is basically the dearh of a potential good game.

[@Acencial]

I feel you've missed an opportunity to call them big mommies.

[@SalimJ]

Great video as usual! Just one thing, please don't use background music with lyrics, it makes it difficult to focus on your talking. Otherwise all is great!

[@Fjonan]

That illustrative Hitman Miami Scene made me laugh out loud - well played 😄. Also the fact that the dude was your actual target and you got away with it. Very well prepared.

[@prossnip42]

The fact that there were some reviews calling this an immersive sim genuinely astounds me. Far Cry 5 is more of an immersive sim than this and i mean that 100 percent sincerely

[@GmodPlusWoW]

This week on things that I had no idea existed and probably shouldn't, the Molestation Fridge. Which sounds like it'd be more at home in Bloober Team's version of Silent Hill 2, all things considered. Also, well do I remember Umami and their film Interface.

[@TeddyKrimsony]

The man molester fridge

[@23UAS]

You should try Ultrakill, I'm curious what you would say about it's approach to weapon synergies and their effectiveness against specific enemies, as well as it's replayability and freedom to problem solving (just looks up how many ridiculous ways to defeat a first serious boss V2 have the players found out).

[@Riku-Leela]

That few second Minecraft clip gave me Sips and Sjin Yogscast Tekkit series vibes all of a sudden, random ik but yeah

[@abstractdaddy]

Thanks for the shoutout Adam! 🌞

[@ArchitectofGames]

No worries, you earned it!

[@blueriv]

Started reaching for my glasses for a second there, real gnarly choice of resolution brother

[@reverse_engineered]

You must have gotten to the video early. Blame KZbin for transcoding to many different resolutions and starting with the lowest first.

[@Skaatje]

Every new video I am amazed at the work and thought you've put in to these, still after all this time. I can't support you with money unfortunally, but I will always watch, like and share the hell out of these! ♥

[@Thomas_Lo]

Man, there is so much interesting thought crammed in that video, for a second I even forgot about the political meta of the titular title. Also extra karma for advertising Terra Nil at the end. Solar punk ftw!

[@FulloutPostal]

19:22 had me actually chuckle... that was a good one!

[@ramboturkey1926]

you can beat bio shock easily with the wrench and the electric plasmid

[@joey4189]

19:22 This Hitman clip, paired with the skript - genius detail!

[@umbrosia5202]

Then I think about, that is the thing that got me hooked on fire emblem 3 houses. I played the first path and had really fun at the beginning, since I was always planning my character builds. But at the end, it got a bit boring. It was still great, but not like at the beginning. After this I started my second playthrough, and suddenly it was fun again. Now I'm approaching the end again and it gets dull again. And this time the excitement for the next playthrough is a bit weaker, since I played the game nearly 2 times now and most of my strategies are already in place. But anyway, I totally understand metagaming, love it, do it all the time, at least more back a couple of years. Ironically on games I don't even have. Damn was that a strange kind of fun.

[@finaldusk1821]

Sure, nearly all the training and recruitments plans are made early on, but that's also the time when most characters are in extremely similar infantry classes and (mages aside) rarely feel meaningfully distinct from each other. As the game goes on, fun teambuilding choices are gradually replaced with fun battlefield choices, with characters having increasingly pronounced strengths and weaknesses against different enemies. Not a perfect system by any means, but I ended up having more fun in the late game than the early game largely because of this change; unit planning can take a few minutes, fight planning across the course of a whole playthrough will last hours.

[@toxic_shr00m]

saw the typo in my notification and was so excited to correct you in the comments but you fixed it already... darn...

[@danielbart6385]

Video was great, I have one little nitpick tho. The dog you refer the poster at 0:18 is not Laika. As you can see there is two dogs, those ones are Belka and Strelka, both two dogs who were sent into earth orbit and survived their venture. It's an interesting factiod I would think.

[@powerofanime1]

Your work is inspirational! The problem you describe with Polymer is exactly the same as my problem with Slag in the Borderlands games but I didn't have the words for it.

[@BologneyT]

I love how you or your editor legit played Hitman with this video in mind so you could that bit! XD Never seen that clearly done in a video like this before. haha

[@dallindavis2131]

I would love it if you included a list at the end of these videos that included games that accomplish the principle you are talking about. Like for this one games with great meta gaming.

[@oliverlong345]

Liked purely for the little hitman gag you threw in near the end.

[@mastercrash0683]

One of my personal favorite games that does this is Caves of Qud. In addition to its many other good qualities, it handles metagaming very well for those who wish to indulge in it and make it somewhat optional if you don’t. It has a lot of depth and every upgrade you get feels important. In addition, each time you play is completely random, meaning that you have to adapt your playstyle each time. For example, a super important skill that you had to grind for one game could be taught by the starting village in the next, but then be useless for your strategy. One game, I completely bypassed a difficult area because I sacrificed a bunch of artifacts to a church, a pretty well known strategy. However, I kept giving them my artifacts and trading my reputation for secrets until I was able to increase my reputation with everyone. I then used my high reputation to get items super cheap from shops. This is just the surface of this game and there are so many other interesting parts, I hope you do a video on it.

[@stevenneiman1554]

This was kind of why I eventually stopped having fun with Monster Train. I figured out... I'm not actually sure if it's the best strategy or just the first solid one I could make sense of (hellhorned for imps and melting remnant for reform to spam their summon abilities, and hope I can get one or both of a Legion of Wax to proc summon a ridiculous number of times or Transcendimp to repeat all my summons), and as I climbed higher through the Covenant ranks I just found that all I really had room to do was either make the same build every time or die trying.

[@brennanclement8582]

Yeah I think Prey is a much better successor to Bioshock. It does a great job of preserving almost all of the best elements while being much more modernized.

[@igorthelight]

True!

[@rissaarei5336]

Ageed. Was very surprised he didn't mention Prey. Arkane Studios have always understood the played driven risk to payoff loop better than many, many others. I'll forever mourn the loss of Return to Ravenholm.

[@MattRose30000]

So, in terms of persistent progression in Rogue-lites, it would be better to have it as generic as possible, instead of building towards a certain build. E.g., not having to pick certain items in particular, but maybe accumulating skill points with which you can freely buy items or perks every run, or randomly getting a pool of progressively better items. There is a not very well known Magic the Gathering format called "Sealed League" (or Booster Box League), where you start with a small pool of random cards from which you build your deck, and you get more booster packs as the league progresses, so your card pool gets bigger and you can build stronger decks. But you could always completely scrap your deck and start from scratch if you happen to encounter a particularly strong synergistic card, ending with a completely different deck.

[@hackcubit9663]

This video reminded me how I built my character in Bioshock, using cloaking and vampire effects so I could sneak up to splicers and knock them out in a hit or two, and regain health while doing it. Who needs ammo when I can just tank the splicers' hit while damaging them back at the same time?! And then there was the time in New Vegas I made Geordi LaForge by taking the four eyes and overclock perk (or whatever it was called, the one that made energy weapons hit harder but degrade faster) at character creation and put all my skill points into energy weapons and repairing. Combat became a case of "as long as I can keep the enemies at bay they're already dead."

[@TheOneBearded]

19:24 lol to how he aims his gun to what he's describing in the script (screen, then engine, then head-shot). Don't think we didnt' notice that cheeky little detail

[@Yssago]

Waiting for more pixels...

[@tritoner1221]

Great video!

[@kakkakapwppwow]

14:58 one of the things I loved about prey was that the more I progressed the enemies and enemy composition practically countered my old strategy and made me have to implement them differently or find new tactics

[@iefim]

We diagree on the meaning of meta-game. I understand it a literally a game beyond the game: You need a wiki to figure out how to craft something? Well, wiki is not a part of a game. You're copying pro player's deck in magic? Nowhere on the cards it states that these specific 60 cards should be used together. However if you're problem solving and theorycrafring only off of information that the game itself presents to you, well... You're just gaming, not metagaming.

[@patrickrauh996]

Your vids are damn documentaries on tv level , you're so damn good

[@allencunningham9002]

Ark was a great example, engrave choices start out interesting to the degree that our play group started specializing in a few things (building, resource collecting, fighting, taming etc) but then by mid game those choices no longer exist as everyone is able to do all of these things as some items even in those specialties aren't worth getting while the engram points are given enough to buy what's needed plus some fun points.

[@john11495]

A dwarf fortress clip with the question "what makes metagaming fun" Fantastic matching

[@willg3220]

I think he forgot this was about atomic heart for 15 minutes like I did

[@oliverlarosa8046]

So, as quality so often does, it largely comes down to a principle of restriction. Making one option definitively optimal naturally makes every other option definitively suboptimal, functionally making the presented choices pointless unless a player goes out of their way to adopt a less viable playstyle (i.e: there is a "meta," as soulsborne PVPers would put it). The way that games like Bioshock avoid this is by restricting the capabilities of the player's options in different, meaningful ways; essentially assigning each a list of pros and cons that present the player with legitimate, impactful choices to reckon with

[@pontoppidan123]

Love your videos

[@Morraak]

Hoping to see a Bleak Faith: Forsaken video from you in the future someday!

[@Arisilde]

The molestation fridge is hilarious, and probably one of the more entertaining parts of the game I have seen thus far.

[@TheFirstAifos]

This video explains pretty darn perfectly why Re:CoM is my second favorite Kingdom Hearts game. Like, sure, the moment to moment combat is just spamming Y, with an occasional 0 card popped in, but the metagame of designing a deck where you can just mash Y to win is so fun. I’ll now send everyone who goes like “Ugh, you like Re:CoM?” here.

[@The-Anathema]

The line between streamlining and dumbing down is quite thin indeed, and crossing it is significantly worse than being overcomplicated imo (though on the extreme opposite end of the spectrum you have so many enemy variations that it's not worth using any specialised damage because it's so niche as to be practically useless, a middleground obviously needs to be found)

[@Dionysus24779]

19:22 The Hitman bit made me chuckle. Metagaming can be fun, I really enjoyed planning out my character builds in games like Fallout 3 or NV or the Pathfinder RPGs and then seeing my careful planning come to fruition, giving me a powerful build that I crafted from scratch. But I agree that meta progression which simply makes you more powerful is boring. Lately I've been replaying Vampire Survivor with a fresh start and my primary focus early on was to maximize gold gain so I could buy upgrades which universally increased my power. And after buying all of those instead of having to do cool synergies and careful builds I can now just steamroll any stage with whatever the game gives me.

[@Teh-Penguin]

Recarding AH car physics: if you tap A or D quickly to turn instead of pressing it, the car becomes very manoeuvrable - a workaround I found.

[@rept7]

One trait I've noticed about metagaming is how it works wonderfully in single player games but terribly in multiplayer. Are you playing a single player RPG? Do whatever you want in order to overcome the game's challenges. Playing a MMORPG? How dare you not run the most optimal of builds. This facet that makes discovering a way to slay the spire incredibly fun also breeds the worst kind of toxicity.

[@Conviter]

personally, i think the beiggest problem with Atomic Hearts Weapon and skill upgrades isnt that there is no choice, because i feel the order of upgrades is a pretty good choice itself. But the problem is that Atomic Heart just showers you with resources, so that by the time your maybe a third or halfway through the game, you have unlocked all the nodes for the skills that you can use at once, and gotten all the useful upgrades for the few weapons that you use most. if, instead, you just got less resources, it could have been a meaningful choice to decide the order of important unlocks, like upgrading the power of the shield, or of one of the offensive abilites.

[@Luanmm]

I started replaying pokémon Sun this month planning which pokémon I'd capture, in which routes etc. I binge played until I captured all my team, and now that this metagame step is over, I'm bored and only slowly advancing

[@IplayTeemoasaWard]

If Pokemon was actually hard and made you go back to change up your strategy it would be way more fun. Can I recommend you some games like Pokemon Insurgence, Reborn and Rejuvenation? Before I played difficult pokemon games I felt like 70% of the roster is trash that couldnt stack up to a random team of pseudolegends, but man does it feel good when you realize that mons you would have never caught (Shoutout to my monster Unaware/Calm Mind Swoobat) completely bricks an opponents team that you were stuck on for 10 attempts

[@jojomicheldu59]

Stop torturing yourself by playing pokemon and play Shin Megami Tensei instead

[@finaldusk1821]

And that's why Nuzlockes add so much to the Pokémon experience, especially with a (healthy) dose of added rules and limits. Even well planned strategies can be permanently taken off the table with a random crit, an unlucky miss, or a simple mistake. This forces players to adjust their plans regularly, with new team members chosen by a certain amount of RNG as old ones are gradually lost. Half your team went down during a fight gone wrong out of nowhere? Only have one Pokémon left with a type advantage against the next gym? Every new catch and every loss is a new opportunity to metagame mid-run.

[@mentalpopcorn2304]

That tarkov weight training clip was so good in the context I was so excited for gym and I just found it to be a waste of time

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@LighthoofDryden]

That genshin caption is now my favorite bit of popup text in any video

[@ImmacHn]

19:08 What's wrong with el Ammo Bandito? I love to say that line whenever I'm using one. "Bienvenido al Armor Bandito!, "Muchas Gracias!" I love it.

[@brokenbutterbagels]

the hitman clip at 19:22 is truly poetic

[@1gengabe]

I wonder what you would say about Kingdom Hearts Re: Coded's level up system, if you have not seen it yourself it is worth checking out, it has you can fill up the full kill tree (if you can call it a skill tree) but it does so in a way that forces you to make Meta choices, that you feel though out the whole game.

[@A_B_1917]

One correction, only few Naukagrads were built by forced prison labour, many weren't.

[@rohitchaoji]

Lol for the first 45 seconds I though I was watching some Bioshock Infinite footage. I still haven't played that game, as you can tell, but yeah, I didn't think it was a new and unique game I hadn't seen before aesthetically. I literally thought it was just Bioshock infinite.

[@FatWalterWhite69]

You should do a video about frostpunk, you talked about in briefly in a different video but I really love the game and I think you should talk about it more

[@qu765]

I really enjoyed this video!

[@HaikuOezu]

Why is that transition at 6:17 so god damn funny to me lmao

[@vampirecheetah]

I think the points you made here explains why I just can't get into/finish Kingdom Two Crowns vs adoring the earlier Kingdom New Lands. In KTC there's less randomness in terms of resources and failure just lands you back on a previous island with quite a lot of progress in tact. There's less a puzzle to completing the game, but moreso an exercise in patience, which is boring.

[@mgiebus1869]

I don't even like Bioshock but to say it's ai was terrible just isn't true. Enemies heal themselves, jump in water if they're on fire, hide in another room to ambush if u shoot at them. Still some of the best ai I've seen

[@fluf5517]

Up

[@thomasblazek4104]

I have never heard of the game, and while you were talking about all the other influences, I was just thinking "This looks like Bioshock. Still Bioshock. Extremely Bioshock". Safe to say, it's a close style copy.

[@dirtywhitellama]

In Dwarf fortress the meta game basically is the game.

[@connorrowe8787]

Didnt expect an Umami shoutout, absolute legend of internet animation imo

[@coyjin]

I also think that meta cant be contrived. often times meta arises from the cracks left by a developer when creating a seemingly balanced system. some times these cracks are so broken that they remove the fun of the game other times they force creativity. often times the fun of finding the meta is as much fun as playing the game for the first time.

[@BagelBoi4000]

19:22 im sorry but the background footage is SO funny, did you write that line and suddenly think "I know how I can represent this" or were you playing hitman while writing the script or somethinglol

[@smile-tl9in]

i kind of like metal gear solid's approach to metagame. If you over-rely on a strategy (headshots for example) the game will spawn enemies more resistant to your preferred strategy (helmets), forcing you to adapt.

[@ntecleo]

15:45 at this point i got reminded that is was watching a video about atomic heart XD. i got so absorbed in the narrative that i completely forgot why i clicked on the video to begin with

[@Rinoscope]

Big thumb up for calling DotA's root Aeon of Strife, very fun to know you were one of the OG who played it! (Or at least heard of it! :) )

[@daleanddale]

I'm rrunning into this exact issue with The Last Spell and Vampire survivers. The meta progression systems assume that you'll unlock everything eventually so none of those choices matter unless you want to avoid some weapons from spawning in The Last spell by just not unlocking them (but I always want to play with all the options so this even if i know that it'll be optimal to not unlock things I want to do it anyways so i can play with the new options...)