Why Avoidants Struggle to Acknowledge Your Pain & What to Do!

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Have you ever felt invalidated by someone with an avoidant attachment style? Let us know in the comments! ❤

[@Nims_1]

This happened to me, i ignored for a couple of days & already hated the lack of communication & consistency was upset with an DA and expressed this hurt, they acknowledged it & suggested that they will come & pick me up and we go out for dinner, they suggested i have a relaxed morning & pamper myself & they would take me out for lunch , when they came hours later they were in a bad mood i was happy my feelings were acknowledged but they must of overthought in that time as they said i just wanted to cause issues, and that i just wanted to ruin his day, i then got upset and more hurt we had been rude to each all night & some points we were both trying to find a solution, he said he found it hard to apologise but was still not taking much accountability, i was even more hurt at this & we both went to sleep upset that night , the next morning I tried to wake up positive although i was still hurt but now they were in a bad mood , it remained like that for a few hours & i felt like they wanted to me to leave & overwhelmed & hurt by the situation which was now slight silent treatment, i had phoned a friend while they were in the shower i went outside for a walk & found the more i spoke to my friend they further i walked & became more upset, i ended up just getting on the train not far & texting him that i left, i thought we would make up but neither one of us called & it ended there , i was deeply hurt for being ignored & they were deeply hurt for abandoning them neither one of us wanted to hurt the other but i had enough i still feel hurt when i think about it but still deeply love them , we were very much in love & happy so I never understood why he sabotaged it like that & maybe he could not understand why i just left like that, its been over a year now & there was eventually polite contact here & there but neither of us know how to get back there or forgive each other , they apologised but there was other issues we had (lack of proper commitment/communication) etc) that makes me think i don’t want to go back to someone who doesn’t value me , communicate, commit or acknowledge any pain. It feels unfair to me

[@TM-te5dp]

That is exactly what I'm going through. After getting verbally abused and kicking me out, I decided to finally leave. I was texting him, and we would go back and forth, and just yesterday, we slept together, and he hurt me all over again by doing the exact thing you describe. My nerves are shot at this moment, but I'm praying for speedy healing 🙏🏻. I just want to get over this as soon as possible and move on.

[@gardeniabee]

Just a kind note about delivery: vocal fry makes the audio difficult to hear and to follow the message easily.❤

[@jrs7223]

always

[@mstorwall]

Yeah, I am so done walking on eggshells and feel like the problem to accomodate the avoidants needs, and any attempt to ask for what I need or help them is met by anger, blame, stonewalling, avoidance. Them never taking any responsiblity or apologizing for their behavior, less alone actually knowledgening that their behavior hurt me, no matter how much I love them and wanted to make it work with them. They need to put in the work, otherwise I can just be their doormat forever.

[@SuperMjai]

I know this feeling

[@keller1334]

We all know the feeling. Three years if dealing with this hell.

[@PB-md3nt]

I think you dated the same person I did. She always blamed me for her behavior, and I was always the fault of anything. Like yourself, I'm done walking on eggshells to appease her past traumas. #AvoidtheAvoidant

[@a.r.8954]

Did they acknowledge that their past trauma and present avoidance were related?@@PB-md3nt

[@eileendom5858]

I actually felt the blame whenever he would turn it on me. I started feeling like I was the one and only with the problem. Now I’m learning I wasn’t at fault. I also didn’t know about DA and FA until I walked away.

[@spiritwanderer777]

same here. i had no idea until it was too late to fix anything, otherwise i would have walked away at the very beginning.

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Our Fearful Avoidant course within the Personal Development School has a section on healing shame and guilt for this exact reason - we are more likely to accept when someone blames us or to over-extend ourselves if we believe we are guilty or bad. This is all conditioning that we can overcome fortunately, and we're so glad you're here watching and healing. ❤

[@agent_exodus]

I like to refer to this as “karmic transference” because in my experience, yes there is an organic “energy” component. It’s like their issues hack interpersonal systems and con more empathetic people into sucking up their own deflected and or uncomfortable feelings for them. I refer to this as being an unwitting “karmic filter organ”. Psychology is biology, we are a psychosocial species, and the root word for psyche is soul.

[@halfmoonranch2254]

I am a widower 4 years out from my loss and I met a widow who is 2 years out from hers. We became best friends over the course of a year and before I realized what was happening, I fell hard of her. I carefully and cautiously proceeded over time, to divulge my feelings and the more she became aware, the more she pulled away. I would give her space and she would reengage, but when she seemed to be warming to me, she would pull away again. My wife of 19 years was never like this, so I had no point of reference of what I was dealing with until I heard you talk about DA's. This lady so fits the description and she comes by it honestly because she was basically abandoned in childhood and her last love did the same when he took his own life. I'm afraid I can't take the emotional roller coaster any longer and I feel as though I must retreat before I do any more damage. The friendship is destroyed and I think we're both suffering, so I'm officially done. I want to love again and I want the best for her, but I don't want to have to jump through hoops of fire to get there, especially when the outlook is so bleak.

[@SteveBlogGuy]

Hi there! Widow of almost 4yrs. Having been around a good amount of widow’s whose husband died by suicide, they typically carry a lot of guilt and shame, I’ve heard a lot of them say “my grief is less than.” Add in if she is a DA, and in the grief process 2yrs., she may not be in a space where she can mentally handle working on herself to bring herself to a more secure attachment. It’s likely her mental bandwidth is in serious overdraft. As someone who sounds to have exercised patience for her feelings, patterns, you will need to continue to do so. It will seem like you are carrying the relationship, and at the same time for her to evolve into a SA, she will be doing a lot of work on herself in the background. It’s a tender road to explore with someone. It is very possible she can become SA. A lot of thought on your part if you want to maintain the relationship will be needed. She will likely reengage. I can imagine that because you both have experienced grief of a spouse you find it hard to understand why she’s not excited to have a chapter 2. DA sometime cannot even describe feelings. As a widow I can easily name and describe emotions I’ve felt since my husband passing. And do have a hard time understanding how others struggle with it. I have empathy for them. But struggle to mentally make sense of why being so miserable is okay with them. Hope that was helpful. Peace & Light to you! 🙏🏻

[@dandawson8128]

As a DA and a widower of almost 4 years, all your thoughts and comments, and compassion and empathy are on target and appreciated. All these videos pile on pointing blame, as though the DA is doing all this intentionally as part of a master plan. Ironically, that will just reinforce the DA’s mindset versus compassion and building trust with the person to reengage. You don’t understand, the DA already has had a difficult life, it’s been so long that it’s now considered normal and accepted. I suspect they’ve never had compassion and have been told to deal with it, it’s a difficult process.

[@halfmoonranch2254]

When I wrote that, I was pretty sore, but things have changed somewhat. I completely understand what you're saying and I want you to know that I didn't simply abandon her. I did take a couple weeks to give us both some space and allow me to detach, but we're in good standing at the moment. She was pretty upset at the time out. I cherish her friendship and I don't blame her. I just don't believe she's ready for a relationship (by her own admission) and I don't want to make her feel more uncomfortable trying to push her into one. At the same time, I'm trying the preserve my own sanity, since the last 3 months have been really rough. I will always have a soft spot for her and who knows, if one day she has a change of heart, I'll keep an open mind, but for now she knows I'm here for her. She's already been through enough without me piling on and what kind of friend would I be if I just walked away? I appreciate your comment very much and thank you for that.@@dandawson8128

[@halfmoonranch2254]

After a brief time out of a couple weeks, I did communicate with her and we have talked things out to the degree that our friendship seems to be intact, though she's a bit reserved now. Everything you said is spot on. I'm 100% sure she harbors guilt among other things. Like you, I too have no problem taking about or addressing emotions I've had since my loss, but I was sort of equipped with some of the tools for handling the grieving process beforehand. In this lady's case, I can tell she does not know how to process either the grief, or the trauma of the suicide. Before I fell for her and when she felt no pressure from me to be something more than a friend, we had some of the most touching conversations, where we both shared deeply personal experiences. She told me the whole story of the suicide and just how close she actually came to potentially falling victim to him as well. When I hear the stories of how she's been treated, it simply breaks my heart and I am compelled to treat her as gently as humanly possible. I've wanted so badly to just hug her and tell her it will be alright, but I know I can't do that. I was very proud that she opened up in that way and showed great courage in making herself vulnerable to me. That to me demonstrated a tremendous amount of trust. That being said, I have told her that no matter what, I am in her corner and that I'm here for her if she needs me. I suspect that it will take her some time to trust me again, but in the interest of at least saving the friendship, I will carry on. I've pretty much relegated myself to being just a friend unless she has a change of heart sometime in the future.@@SteveBlogGuy

[@dandawson8128]

@@halfmoonranch2254- you are a kind person. Yes, being available is what she needs, ….of course keeping in mind that you deserve to also be happy if you find another partner.

[@noral4729]

My dismissive ex has a masters in communications. The irony is not lost on me

[@Kinteresting]

Yeah unfortunately even with education and therapy- if there is a lack of addressing the underlying core issues.. it really is a no win situation. And this is coming from an FA who has been in therapy most of my adult life, and I also have multiple advanced degrees in communication. None of that matters, not even the therapy (for me personally) until I started understanding the underlying root cause of my behaviors and issues around communication/shutting down. All of that only happened after a relationship with someone where I was prompted to learn more about my attachment style and get to the root of my trauma, and that has taken years, and has been an entirely self directed process. There is no way to incite change in someone else, and it is yes I understand incredibly frustrating- I am still dealing with a DA ex who thinks he is very on top of his communication and relationship issues, but it’s .. frustrating. I try to remind myself there’s nothing I can do, I’ve been in that position before myself.. the blind spots are enormous.

[@distanttouch]

Mine has a masters in Psychology. Try that for irony.

[@thevikingbeard89]

No. Stonewalling/no contact without closure/agreement is absolute abuse. They may not mean harm but that's not an excuse. You can cause some serious emotional trauma.

[@riccardodiluca6862]

a viking traumatized by some DA?

[@thevikingbeard89]

@@riccardodiluca6862 viking has nothing to do with it. Understanding people can get hurt especially if you care for others is the lesson. Learning how actions affect others positively and negatively.

[@GeoffreyAngapa]

​@@thevikingbeard89Well said. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of intent.

[@agent_exodus]

I agree if it’s contextually appropriate. If someone is highly toxic, avoiding self reflection/trauma work/etc. … then there’s nothing more one can do other than go no contact. It’s self preservation. Usually after a long time of trying to explain the same things over and over again. It’s abusive when it’s someone demonstrating the aforementioned traits but then also discards with no closure.

[@Cyhcg5uhgb]

You dont need agreement to break up. A healthy break up wouldn't include no contact/stone walling/non closure, but if there is no other option: you dont owe anyone anything.

[@sadiqua7]

Thais I sincerely think you should be on a video loop in Times Square, a required course in colleges..all the things! I am literally going through this RIGHT NOW. On day 4 of silence after sending a vulnerable text to my ex telling him how I feel and why I cannot be friends. Past two days has been so hard feeling ignored and dismissed. I clearly told him how scared I was throughout our relationship to talk to him about my feelings and how he affected me, and why I can’t be friends with him in any capacity. He just can’t meet me halfway even to have an authentic friendship. Really sucks

[@LaurensLifePhotoJournal]

I haven’t communicated with my DA ex in 4 months. Will be 2 years in August we’ve been broken up. I so wish he could see this. We had a very close loving relationship through my breast cancer even. It all became too much for him when I said I needed a commitment. He couldn’t and jumped ship. That’s when I discovered Attachment Theory. And Thais. I’m now taking the certification course. He will be 60 and I’ll be 64. C’mon, life is hard, I get it. I’m a widow of 3 years. I keep praying and walking forward with God and working on myself and hoping to help others. 🙏❤️‍🩹

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Thank you for sharing your experience. That is really hard, though you did a great job standing up for yourself and asking for what you need. Fun fact, I actually had a billboard ad in Times Square for my book, Learning Love, so almost there!

[@CestLaVieMonAmor]

I’ve been seeing your comments on these videos the past few days as I’ve also been consuming a lot of content on avoidants, and I HAD to reply to this one. I’m in the EXACT same boat as you are, only I’m on day 8 of silence after sending the same vulnerable message. I detailed how scared I was for so long in the relationship and how many times I tried to seek reassurance only to be repeatedly dismissed, causing me to be afraid to share my feelings any longer. I detailed how it was hurting me due to fear of being edged out by him completely, to the point that I felt I had to start distancing as well, as it seemed he had been. Because I couldn’t take the push/pull anymore. I have my own fears regarding abandonment, and him refusing to acknowledge his own weren’t doing me any favors. I tried so hard to make him feel safe and comfortable and give him reassurance when he was anxious, but he was left me alone when I was the one anxious about it. There was no comfort to be found in him when I needed it. Any attempts to try to get some validation would just push him away. I told my best friend how much it hurts to ONCE AGAIN be dismissed and ignored this final time I’ve tried to be vulnerable and share my feelings. And I wonder if they’re even aware of how unimportant it makes the other person feel. Like we meant nothing, aren’t worth even a small response, or they don’t care or see it as a loss at all. Like we just poured our hearts out and they went on with their day. Anyway, just wanted to let you know there’s someone out there also going through it with you.

[@paulaCvenecia]

Yes! And translated to Spanish ... I volunteer as tribute 😁👍🏾

[@isaaccpt6643]

It's sooo crazy my bf and I broke up 3 months ago. I was feeling all these things aswell in person relationship hurt soooo badly. After our break up he blocked me. Then a few weeks after he unblocked me drunk texted me and then deleted it in the morning. That messed me up. I preceeded to text him how much I love him and the next day I was blocked again. So I finally blocked him on whatsapp in return. 2 weeks ago I received I text message. Him drunk texting me again saying how good our sex was. We then unblocked eachother on WhatsApp and started talking again. He at first just wanted sex devoid of emotion which I agreed to but even before we met up I told him I can't do a Relationship devoid of emotions with him it's too triggering because of the emotional neglect. For the past week have gone back forth of why our relationship ended and how he neglected me and how I never had a voice in the relationship all of the thing that everyone else has said in the comments. I kept still telling him I love him and wana be with him. My last straw was when I sent vulnerable messages and were ignored for 2 days. I then proceeded to tell him I love him but I'm not doing this because I deserve more. And then he finally he responds and says I've broken his heart for the final time and blocks me again.

[@mstea2234]

Listen to the video carefully. Basically, your needs will continue not to be meet in your attempts to appease an unhealed avoidant. They’ll drain you of your light, peace, and love and still find flaws in your simple attempts to feel loved back. You deserve better. I was there for years and completely broke my spirit. Now, years later, I roll my eyes as I listen and recall all these events. If I could go back in time, I’d tell myself, “ don’t waste your time”. Lessons though.

[@13sprintuser]

I've felt this with my avoidantly-attached now ex-gf. And trying to get back together with her has been hell.

[@AmericanDreamer]

exactly! 💯 It's in the name " avoidant" ! it really gives you already half of the game, so to speak. As long as there will be avoidance, there won't be healthy, wholesome love relationship. And unless they themselves genuinely see the need to correct themselves and take on full responsibility and accountability for their behaviors in relationship, nothing will change ❕❕❕ And they will remain unfit for what we call love relationships. Maybe they will and are able to function just fine in flings, FWB tyoe of thing, but that's it.

[@suziesmith9076]

Is this Because you were over giving in attempts to the avoidant to behave in the way you wanted. Rather than focusing on meeting your needs yourself from a place of contentment and supporting your partner I’m asking because I often find myself trying to fix/manipulate my partner into doing what I want in the time frame I want opposed to asking and waiting. I don’t do it because the feelings in me are sometimes overwhelming but I’m realising that’s a me problem to fix not my partner. And my partner’s discomfort with intimacy is his to fix we support each other but a relationship isn’t the cure. God is!

[@tiktokshock4652]

@@suziesmith907699.9% it’s exactly this. “I’m overfunctioning in an attempt to force you to meet my needs that I don’t know how to meet myself even though you’re busy meeting your own needs, & if that doesn’t work I’ll just blame you for my unmet needs & demonize you as a horrible pos person for my inability to meet my own needs or hold space for anyone to meet their own as well.”

[@tiktokshock4652]

If you could go back in time, what you SHOULD tell yourself is go to therapy & learn how to not be codependent.

[@tahrimabs]

Thanks! I have dealt with this behavior, honestly just felt like a doormat at some point, and how they dismissed the feelings + blamed everything on me, and left. Without ever acknowledging their mistakes. Even after providing so much understanding and care, the level of ungratefulness and rudeness was sky high. Stay away guys, priorities self care.

[@AmericanDreamer]

Much like a golden child complex where they been raised from early on as perfect baby who can do no wrong. Too much coddling and spoiling will do that - give you a brat of a child and later, that grown brat will think that is absolutely ok to treat others any which way...they don't and won't have a genuine capacity and inclination to care for anyone but themselves. And after all, they could manipulate their parents and everyone around them to their advantage, at later stage, taking accountability is impossible for them and without this super important quality - relationship is impossible too. It's always someone else, "cannot be me" etc because their moms (or dads) failed at raising them right, including healthy discipline and teaching responsibility at the young age. Instead of using big eyes or manipulations to get away with anything.

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

​@@AmericanDreamerI'm not sure where that assessment came from, but a lot of DA's form their avoidant attachment stemming from abandonment and neglect.

[@tiktokshock4652]

@@AmericanDreamer Hate to break it to ya but that’s not how people become dismissive avoidants at all lol

[@breezy9387]

Could you make some videos about how the different attachment styles handle grief and what they need in order to feel supported?

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

We will add this to our topic list ideas. Thank you for the suggestion!

[@whiterabbitjourneys]

These videos are super helpful. I probably fall under the dismissive avoidant category. Both of my parents did their best, but they both had neglectful parents when they were little and weren’t able to model to me how to express needs and co., even if they knew that that was something I needed to do. I’ve done all sorts of healing over the last 5 years, but some of these ways of behavior still do persist. It’s helpful to know what the patterns are though so I can look out for them in myself in future close relationships.

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Congrats on doing the work to heal your attachment. It is not easy, but oh so worth it and awareness is the first step. Thank you for sharing your experience! ❤

[@jackjanzen6061]

I am sorry that we as D A’s cause so much pain. We also feel pain but bury it so deep till we can’t feel it. It’s a survival tool. I no longer attempt to date or anything. I would like to but just feel to inadequate at it to be successful and I don’t want to hurt anyone because of my avoidance now that I know it hurts people. I keep things superficial and just try to have friends.

[@matthewpetto8942]

You say that the stonewalling isn't punishment or to be mean, but stonewalling IS mean, and is by it's very nature a punitive behavior.

[@paulroth6783]

Stonewalling may FEEL like a punitive act; I'm not going to diminish your experience, but I offer a very different view. Stonewalling is a DEFENSIVE mechanism and I wasn't even AWARE of it's offensive capabilities until recently. I'm not one to INTENTIONALLY hurt the ones I love...I may not realize how much I UNINTENTIONALLY hurt others but being punitive and intentionally vengeful is not what I'm about at all. I hate the idea of being vindictive (what a horrible heavy energy to carry around all the time.) I hate games...either you love me or you don't. Either you enjoy being with me or you don't...I'm not one to test or manipulate others...that's not the way I'd want to be treated. But my DEFENSIVE stonewall is like a wall that shields me from the arrows. It also a 2 WAY wall as it keeps me from saying things to my partner that would be crushing or cruel. I've literally thought (while in the middle of an argument)...well I could say this, this or this, but I rightfully determined that doing so would be very cruel or mean...so I bottled them up even if my partner was not showing me the same courtesy. I guess you could say it's almost a point of pride or "mental high road" they can be mean to me but I won't sink to that level. But keep in mind, since I don't enjoy conflict at all, I don't stand up for myself very well, BUT and this is VERY important, I'm not going to let someone keep hurting me either! So what do I do? Put up the wall. If you feel like your arrows are bouncing off my wall and landing on you again, there's a simple solution: STOP shooting arrows! It's funny how that works!...I'm not going to throw down my wall if I'm only going to get shot up again. It's funny how many folks DEMAND that the wall come down when they aren't ready to stop shooting! It's actually quite absurd when you think about it! The wall can also get thrown up when I'm just tired of fighting about something. Look, I heard you out for 60 minutes in which I got to speak for maybe 2 or 3 of those minutes and you took ALL the other time. If you don't have anything NEW to say that I haven't heard before I'm DONE with this conversation; you might not be, but I am. I'm open to creative new ideas for old problems...I'm not open to you telling me things I already know and I'm tired of hearing. The wall can come down though...start off with a compliment or a way that you appreciate my effort and I'll be a lot more receptive to what you have to say. Maybe give me a hug FIRST and tell me your concern after that...I'll be all ears...I've never been particularly good at sticking up for my own feelings. I took pride in the fact that I could CHOOSE to be happy regardless of whether others were helping or hurting me in that endeavor. I prided myself in always placing reason and logic above feelings. I've since learned that my feelings DO matter MUCH more than I gave them credit for, and the reason I was dismissing others feelings is because I had become so adept at dismissing my own. If feelings are held in low regard, its easier to become impatient or dismissive of the person who is sooo muuch more "high maintenance" in the area of emotions. Look I DON'T demand that you help me with my feelings (I HATE troubling others with MY problems), in fact I pride myself in being self sufficient in that area, so why do I always have to attend to YOUR feelings? (I don't ever say that out loud but I've become more aware of the subconscious resentment hidden there.)

[@ndl-j4f]

@paulroth6783 wow I think with this explanation on yourself you must have described perfectly the thought proccess of a dismissive avoidant I was dealing with... thanks

[@PeterRabbit53]

You have done me a world of good through your videos. I'm married to a DA, it's a work in progress, but just wanted to send you a blessing...❤

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Thank you so much! ❤

[@PeterRabbit53]

@@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool I will write you my story in a few months. What's the email to use?

[@JosephStockdale-q5n]

Thank you for some hope 🙏🏼. I see a lot of negativity on here in the reply’s. I realize it takes sacrifice to go through this with someone. And I’m willing to do the work and so is she. I really needed to hear a positive message. ❤

[@PeterRabbit53]

@@JosephStockdale-q5n Much love, bro. I gave myself some guidelines to share here. 1) Done be rude to her, no sarcastic comments. Be polite, open doors, do dishes, etc. 2) Be mindful of what might have put her in that headspace, see if you can get her to talk about it, being tolerant of her feelings. 3) Let her know you have feelings too, and are suffering as a result. 4) Pull back a bit here and there. I put my ring on my keyring to show I was serious, while being polite about it. "This is where things that are locked and need to be dealt with go." 5) Negotiate. Hearing that she didn't like being "bugged" for intimacy, I offered three weeks' immunity each month, then I would shower before bed the last week, and expected her to show up twice. She's good with that, so far. Just some ideas, all the best for you.

[@arkan031]

Thanks Thais, this video dropped about right when I needed it. I have a DA gf that I love a lot, but I'm having this kind of issues and I'm usually just blamed for everything and don't really know how to properly address it anymore. I'm doing my best to respect her needs, even if I didn't fully understand them, but if something that I'd need doesn't look important or valid from her side, then it's simply not. We're at distance, but we're able to spend time together for example while playing games. I have a wound from the past, after being completely betrayed by ppl several times. Now imagine that while playing something together, we're also with her male friends and our communication was made in such a way that she was writing with them separately and separately with me (it's mainly just writing, easier to hide emotions this way for sure). Almost entire attention was focused on them, most of the time I was just being ignored, also she was behaving in a bit flirty way with them etc. Being there like this just about daily for a month or so kept activating my wound I've mentioned. When I was trying to ask if she could act bit differently, stop treating me in this kind of inferior way compared to friends, I was only blamed entirely for feeling bad and as from her point of view problem didn't exist, she treated it like there's no problem. Her only argument was like "that's just how I am with my friends" repeated few times. After going through bit of emotional hell during that time, recently I've noticed turning from anxious to fearful avoidant slightly. At least if any of her friends joins us and I see even a tiny bit of that behavior, I felt completely overwhelmed with stress almost instantly, to the point I had to quit and be alone for some time. I've also heard that I hate her friends. In a way, she kinda behaves in a way, that if she'd give me more time and attention, then maybe some friends would get mad and leave her. I will try to use the tips and see if it changes anything, I'm trying to be always there for her and respect her needs most of the time, but I'm sure I don't know all of them and propably won't know them from her. Have a good day and thanks for making these videos, they're very informative. Sorry if I wrote it in a way that looks like I'm just mad. I love my DA a lot, but recently I'm just exhausted with all of it to the point I've stopped enjoying anything I do.

[@jurgenwehner3607]

I had to resort to intensive treatment for anxiety after 5 years in the avoidant /AP cycle .

[@jeffreymerson8425]

Hang in there, my young brother! I too am with a DA, only mine is the mother of my youngest daughter and I’ve been slogging this DA mire for 12 YEARS! My DA is SOH avoidant, she even avoids acknowledging her avoidance, even though she’s seen many of Thais’ videos and has confessed to being a DA 100%. My DA KNOWS what’s up! I’m about to finally relegate my DA to family/sibling status and am pretty sure I will never again look to her for encouragement, empathy, or any other kind of emotional connection… or romance… or affection… or SuperLove.… and I WILL miss our SuperLove! ☝️😔 Anyway, God bless you my young brother. Reply to my message when you think you’re ready to break up with your DA. I’m here for you! ☝️😔

[@arkan031]

@@jeffreymerson8425Thank you for support. I don't really want to break up though. I see that if any of us needed some time to rest, even if there was some argue, bit like I've mentioned, after a day or bit more sometimes, she looks for some contact with me and through that I see that relationship matters to her. Same time that contact can be a bit clumsy in a way, but I'm trying to make it easier when I see it. One thing I just really don't know is how could I get her to open up at least a little about her needs. We wanted to meet last year, but turned out she got scared and cried a bit. I know that she's a good person, I just wish I could somehow help her feeling safer, so she could express herself. I was told once, that around me she can be more herself and she's able to relax, that's great but doesn't seem to be enough. If she managed to open up and had no fear, it could end up great, but I'm propably still missing something.

[@edgeoftheblademusic]

Dealing with my DA ( now ex) was like trying to open a combination lock without the combination. Thank you for the combination. 🙏🏻

[@miller5170]

6:51 I can see how they see coming together to do the basic relationship watering ( communication validation, feedback , opening up with their heart) they see it as neediness or codependency if they cannot see how their actions affect someone else deeply especially to an anxious or even healthy type they want the normal respect of saying where they’re going at night versus taking off or lying ( I see that this can be avoidant mixed with narcissistic behavior) and it is also not knowing how to even have a romantic type relationship where when you’re single you just do what you want whenever or when you’re dating you also don’t communicate about every thing you do whereas when you’re living together with kids your expectations of plans and communication around that is healthy and fair and expected

[@thelifedyslexic]

This explains so much about what I ve been dealing with over last year. I tried too resolve things but we never openly communicated about things they just avoided the topic or dismissed my concerns.

[@SeanGilbertson]

Hi Thais, I’ve been working with an amazing therapist (who likes your videos 😉), and part of that is resulting in me moving from an anxious sort of attachment to a more healthy one. My spouse is dismissive avoidant, and we’ve had a couple of conversations (they seem to only be able to happen as fights) where I was very clear about the changes I’m going though and acknowledging that they might be challenging for her, but that I still love and care for her. But I also laid boundaries out (she can cross the line into emotional abuse) that I’ve been sticking to. In two of these fights I made it clear that I sincerely believe individual therapy for her would help and could be a way forward for us, and while at times she’s seemed open to it (she’s gone in the past), it hasn’t happened yet as far as I know. She’s hostile and intransigent whenever these issues come up. She also does a lot of blaming and grasping for control when feeling “threatened” or when she feels she needs relief or something. My therapist and her supervisor agree that couples’ therapy would probably be unproductive at this point because of where she’s at. Anyway, so I talk with my therapist about this, I lay down boundaries and choose my battles, and all that stuff. I think part of my spouse’s intransigence is that she’s a mental health therapist as well, and in the past she’s told me she believes she and I both have healthy attachments. To me it’s obvious neither of us do. For me, that knowledge has been liberating. Any advice?

[@sifublack192]

Sometimes the fear arises because. We get too much into our heads and think we have to SAY something. We don't always have to have something to say, sometimes we just have to be there to lend a listening ear.

[@miller5170]

I have noticed at times when I have said something and no fight occurred but also nothing said back to reassure or validate I have seen small efforts later. Like they did hear. But it only happens when the relationship gets back on track with some touch and affection etc. then the Change happens. Anyways I can see how perhaps some do hear they just decide to take actions later versus talk about it.

[@sifublack192]

@@miller5170 I've noticed saying less actually helped me to. Being solutions oriented I always wanted to solve the problem rather than simply talk about it. I learned from my dating coach almost two decades ago that it was actually better to listen to women and let then get it off their chest so to speak.

[@jackiep5009]

Yes this!! I saw “Leave me Alone” during conflict as The Silent Treatment and punishing me for bringing up tough stuff. Seeing it as DA is a lightbulb 💡 moment!

[@Dee010s]

I get the..i dont have a reply for that right now. Then we dont get back to it unless i do. Its frustrating.

[@InfiniteGoddess971]

That was enlightening n informative. Explained so well. I now innerstand their style of communications n patterns etc. Truly appreciative 🎉

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@gregvanpaassen]

Great diagnosis, Thais. You described my childhood, except that I also had asthma from 18 months so was stuck alone in my room for weeks at a time, which also contributed to missing out on interpersonal modeling and socialisation generally. I am a strong introvert and need a lot of time alone to recharge after my job, so group activities aren't for me. What I need is a lot of examples, videos of people modeling healthy interaction especially conflict resolution, with explanations. Are there any such things? After that I could start practising...

[@Arysia8]

They deflect, gaslight, project and never apologize 😅

[@TM-te5dp]

In my case I pray to not worry about what he's doing or not doing and just move on. My nerves been shot lately but I pray for speedy healing 🙏🏻

[@HEYEMMY8]

Thank you, Thais. You have made such a difference in my life. ❤

[@tarkov_6]

Amazing how much damage one group of people can do to others, even themselves

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Yes, this is why it's so important to heal attachment wounds, so we don't continue the cycles of harm. ❤Thank you for sharing!

[@AmericanDreamer]

@@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool Disengaging with emotionally immature and emotionally abusive people as romantic partners, would definitely be the 1st and the most important/ life changing step to healing. Teaching tolerance and understanding towards malicious behaviors, probably will just deepen the issue or how you called it. - a cycle ... that wouldn't even be there in the 1st place, shall people actually learned to respect themselves more than they learn (being taught !) to tolerate and reward malicious behavior patterns!

[@ShreemBreezy]

Thank you so much for your content. I’m seeing my relationships in a totally different light. We really do reflect each other. You tend to hear a lot of one sided stuff like channels talking about abuse and stuff. You’ve helped me see that we can mistreat people around us without even knowing that we’re in FoF. Understanding helps develop that compassion for ourselves and others which is really all we need. Thank you thank you thank you. I feel so much lighter and confident about the ways I can handle my relationships. That could be just as simple as admitting to the other person that we can literally have no clue we are hurting or even pleasing them sometimes.

[@DaveE99]

That blame part was so nice to hear. I was trying to figure out stuff out with my mom after a job loss and it went totally south needles FA and complex trauma, but it makes so much sense that they conciously don’t even realize they have these unconcious needs and emotions going on unexpressed but are concious of the chip. Like I’ve witnessed the chip she has as she once said “you’ve destroyed everything I care about” and I asked her to be more specific what “everything meant” and all she could really say in true sort of ocd type compulsive way was that I started saving some plastic containers from recycling to plant plants in. Like I thought that so silly. I didn’t laugh. But my god I couldn’t at the time believe it was so like simple expressed. At same time, I don’t doubt below that chip are needs that she can’t express outside just straight up entitlement, which is what she does,

[@migui8850]

That last behavior is gaslighting- I was on the receiving end of that. It was not a good experience.

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

So sorry this happened to you. Thank you for sharing your experience. ❤

[@feellnfroggy]

@@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool instead of a political non engaging answer, how about addressing if he is right?

[@hurricaneaquatics]

​​@@feellnfroggyhe's right, lol. Just look up narcissist and their tricks and you'll have the same steps as an "avoidant". They get triggered when I say this, but NPD and "avoidant" are synonymous basically. Both have bad emotional immaturity.

[@DaveE99]

@@hurricaneaquaticsit’s a spectrum, and every body has a certain level of narcissism, like I’ve yet to find that any human is pure, we all have a selfish aggressive self protective, compulsively repetitive shadow. Some worse than others. Also it’s easy to feel right labeling Npd, because it Literally throws so many psychological constructs at a person at once. So some darts always stick, though often if you dig deeper in differential diagnosis something else might be going on and they just may have some narcasistic ways of dealing with it. But I do remember one day I met like a true npd person that was really far gone. It was an odd feeling , I wasn’t thrown, but it was just surreal.

[@hurricaneaquatics]

@@DaveE99 Hey Dave, yes, I agree and I understand what you're saying. And yes, everyone has some narcissistic traits, not the full disorder. BPD and NPD are synonymous in my experience. I think we can look at it two ways and you have to choose what works for you. You can't say they have trauma and they need help and you're going to stick by them. You can do that, but you're sacrificing yourself for another human being when you should be taking care of yourself. We're not responsible for letting someone abuse us because they have trauma and DNA. Second way, when these people continue to hurt is and refuse to show any decency or respect to us, while simultaneously saying they love you, and it continues. An apology without change is manipulation. What we need to do is let that person deal with their own issues and step out of their orbit. No one on this planet should allow the type of abuse that comes from an avoidant, Narcissist, Borderline, etc. You're sacrificing yourself to benefit another human being, but that won't help them.

[@wulfclaw4921]

Thank you Lord for answering prayer. I knew something was wrong- but had no idea exactly what it was. God bless you Thank you for helping your fellow men & women W

[@miller5170]

Can we also say to them “ I really like when you open up to me” or I love when we get to talk. Or even say it when times are going good like over a nice dinner out having a beer really nice moments ) just encourage the behavior in the positive so it doesn’t feel like a necessity of yours and that you NeEd them to fill you up emotionally.. ( even though I think the emotional connection and communication is normal and necessary lol)

[@murphys8897]

Could you do a video on best way to break up with each of the attachment styles to not cause more pain and hurt? We’re just not a good pairing but I want to end things in a way that’s not going to cause more pain.

[@show_me_your_kitties]

Breaking up is painful and /or inconvenient. You are wanting something that is not possible. Just do it as kindly and firmly as possible and end it.

[@roshalllambert]

This was very accurate! Thanks for sharing that!!

[@Theri000]

Hey Thais, I'm an aspiring/practicing psychologist myself. Although my passion is child psychology, I've ALWAYS been fascinated by attachment theory. While doing some research for my work(I'm currently a guidance counselor at a school),I came across an ad to ur attachment test. I know I'm securely attached leaning on AP in my most recent dynamic but I took the test anyway; my result was SA,even though I've felt more anxious over the past 7months,mostly due to the fact that I was involved with a DA. I know u say a lot of their actions aren't intentional. That's why I was hoping for one of ur points to be 'DEMEAN', because on top of all the points u made,that's what my DA would do. I understand that DAs don't take criticism well,even when it's constructive,and I admit there were a few times I could have been less critical. My DA -- who's also a perfectionist -- whenever he felt "attacked", would say the meanest things; not insults but just really demeaning things,meant to be his own 'observations'. One was that I'm 'no different' from the many other women(100 he said) he's dated,or how he got angry one time and called me 'average'. These are actions to me that seem very intentional,borderline narcissistic. It started to be a matter of love him or respect myself. I chose the latter. And although I've broken things off for slightly over a month now,I still have such a strong urge to help him heal. At the same time I don't want to seem weak or desperate. Knowing if the examples I gave are typical of a DA or not will really help guide my decision.

[@Theri000]

@@incanttarot Thanks so much for the response. I understand it's abuse... I also suspect he has close to 0 conflict resolution skills due to his childhood so that's why I was wondering if that behavior is typical of DAs. He's had women swoon over him almost his whole life(from being Vice President's son, to star athlete in school,to recently running for President himself) and it's my conviction that none have truly called him out and because of how much he shuns criticism,I believe he has been dismissive of those who have. Or... they just "gave up" on him, most likely because they were subjected to the same demeaning. So to answer ur question, that's why I want to help,I don't want to "give up". I love him but I've taken my mind off a romantic relationship. I just have a strong nurturing urge toward him; feels like I'm his... last hope🙈. He just turned 45(I turned 29 the day before) and he's... lonely: his family lives abroad. I want him to heal so that he can experience contentment, something he barely, if ever feels because he's also a perfectionist. I highly respect myself so it's definitely not a matter of wanting to romantically or even platonically stay in his life. In the chance that I completely lose all connection to him, I want to walk away knowing he's... fixed.

[@macioanasava.official5084]

He is not a DA. The DA doesn't use abusive words, they don't try to hurt...they run away, they stop talking, they become a ghost without saying anything...they dissapear...You can see the pain in their eyes because they are afraid of love......So your partner is not a DA if he used nasty words against you. A DA is a soft and kind human that suddenly runs away when your are emotionally down. They even tell you " I don't want to hurt you". Then they leave....

[@Theri000]

​@@macioanasava.official5084I know him well enough and I've studied attachment theory long enough to know he's a DA. Like the other commenter mentioned: Could there be other underlying issues? Possibly. That's my concern, not if he's a DA or not. Attachment styles are a spectrum. As much as there are specifics, it's not one size fits all.

[@karinteeples9715]

@@macioanasava.official5084Yes, some do. My DA spouse does exactly these things 😶

[@BaritoneMonkey]

​@@macioanasava.official5084there ARE manipulative DAs out there. Adam Lane Smith recently came out with a video where he proposed that it might be more helpful to use an 8-type model of attachment that includes separate categories for manipulative DAs vs DAs like you describe here.

[@AZ-Polska]

What I’m going through right now. She broke up over the phone a week & a half ago and I’m sitting here a complete wreck.. still

[@taylorfausett177]

I know it hurts but look at your reaction as coming from your trauma from childhood and not from the DA. This person is just an opportunity to heal old wounds and isn't meant to be a long-term relationship. You must let them go because they will never give you what you want.

[@AZ-Polska]

@@taylorfausett177 I know you’re right, I thought I was secure when I entered into the relationship but all the DA behaviors made me realize I’m an AP. Probably some abandonment issues as well. Thank you for commenting and saying that, puts me in higher spirits lol

[@AZ-Polska]

@@taylorfausett177 I was so sure that I was going to ask her to marry me, planned to start looking at rings July/Aug.. I’m 30 years old & feel like I just wasted the past year of my life trying to pour all my love into someone who didn’t want to reciprocate!

[@AmericanDreamer]

@@AZ-Polska Hey, I feel for you, it is a nasty place to be in. But don't gaslight your self and don't let anyone else do it to you. You are going through a crappy phase in your life and have every reason to feel down about it. You love her, cannot get over her in mere few days..She broke up with you in such a way, it is and would be hurtful for a woman too, is human thing. Is totally ok to hurt over it for a while. it really has nothing to do with childhood but everything with how you are being treated here and now, in the present. This "old trauma talk" is yet another way for folks with certain mindsets to do themselves and to encourage others to shift away the personal accountability and find a scapegoat in the "past" 😬🤦🌴 - hey, sh#t been going on in the present, you feel a natural human reaction to it and got told by these folks, that your reaction signals that there's something wrong with you, that a healthy "healed" reaction fro let's say, I slap you real hard now and you start to cry. But I say - shut up, not my fault that I slapped you, you just crying coz 20 years ago your moma /papa didn't love you.....See that?? (speculation of course, but with most people it will resonate so they will accept this slimy tactic). - it's blame shifting!! that's all it is!

[@LeeChrissy]

​@@AmericanDreamer taking accountability is not gaslighting yourself nor is others suggesting taking accountability. It's extremely important that we look at ourselves once a relationship has ended and self-reflect. It doesn't mean we should push our hurt aside and solely take the blame for the break up either. Two things can be happening at the same time. This person just admitted that they thought they were secure but are in fact anxious leaning which like an avoidant, is an unhealthy attachment. Ever hear of the saying "There's 3 sides to every story...your side, their side and the truth." They are two people who have two different perspectives on how they lived this relationship. Self reflection and accountability never hurts anyone. I think it's great that this person isn't just out here blaming, instead they're looking within.

[@ntildesley2071]

This was so valuable, thank you

[@karenpoirier9352]

Genius. Love her

[@annbethchinchillo9192]

We are done. This is WAY too much work and pain. 13 years with a whiney, passive aggressive, selfish person, who just would now allow any communication about our relationship. He was an energy vampire and I only want an evolved man now.

[@MM-pb8ik]

I’m starting to feel like giving up. He treats me like I’m a friends with benefits even though I’ve limited the benefits until my needs are met. They aren’t even that big. I just want some romance and loving words. We spend so much time talking on the phone and sharing childhood memories and more. He does acts of service. But that’s it. It’s killing me.

[@biancacaputo7174]

I don't understand how my husband is a DA because he is from a very close family. But he is definitely a DA and it really became triggered at marriage, quote late in the relationship. But i definitely have to speak to him like she says because otherwise it won't get done

[@marioct130]

If anyone uses these types of behavior to disappear without awareness and responsibility, for me there is no hope for a relationship. In my experience, I have been required to reach out and 'facilitate' the relationship which actually means I won't get my needs met.

[@NormanInAustralia]

Thanks!

[@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool]

Thank you so much!! ❤

[@NormanInAustralia]

@@ThePersonalDevelopmentSchool Your insights are always helpful and delivered with warmth. Thank you, Thais.

[@akdollface007]

Both my Dad and my Sweetheart were/are so conflict adverse it’s completely debilitating to them and me (frankly). My Dad was some type of avoidant (though I don’t know which type) and my Sweetheart is mostly a DA with maybe some small FA tendencies. I try to be understanding and sometimes get so frustrated internally because it’s his learned helpless to keep himself safe, but the crappy coping mechanism doesn’t help him, me, or others. I have my own crappy coping mechanisms that don’t work also (I am trying to actively heal so I can thrive and not just survive…sometimes with varying results 😅) so I’m not saying I’m looking down on them. What I am saying is it doesn’t help to be so utterly conflict avoidant that the person hurts themself and their loved ones and sometimes that behavior is such learned helplessness that it is similar to cowardice 😞. And the stonewalling feels awful on the receiving end.

[@drivesanoldcar]

Thank you

[@jurgenwehner3607]

My recent past DA/FA partner is so intelligent, hyper-vigilant and very well educated as an LMFT. Still doesn’t show any signs of doing’the work’. The description of the video very much matches my experience. How do they all ‘know so well’ how to prototypically act as an avoidant (there seems to be very little genuine behavior variance)?

[@chironow3446]

I lean DA, but am very committed, loyal, moral person with strong values and discipline. The pain of telling my wife my feelings and being told I’m wrong is so painful.

[@VitalijaJ]

I believe i have avoidant tendencies. I keep watching videos to understand the root cause and learn better coping mechanisms. But for the life of me, i do not know what exactly to do or say to make it better. What does "work through this together mean" in very tactical terms? Saying i have heard you and understand? It would be very helpful (given that indeed we may not have been modelled it) to see what desired healthy interaction looks like? It could be two similar scenarios role played to see "good" and "not so good" side by side. Thanks you so much!

[@suziesmith9076]

Imagine you accidentally hurt child. What would you do? Or imagine someone hurt you as a child how would you want them to respond?

[@klangfarben6]

It's pretty simple. Honestly listen to the other person and what their needs are. Follow through with a behavior change. In return ask them to do the same for you. Don't automatically consider cooperation as a loss.

[@macioanasava.official5084]

"Work through this together " means: telling your fears and asking what are your partner fears in a relationship. Telling your partener what anoys you...I really love a boy whose name is Vitalii ,he is avoidant, he doesn't talk about his family problems and doesn't want to be touched even by me...Don't pull or run away when your potencial lover is going though bad times...HUG AND KISS AND DONT EXPECT THE OTHER PERSON TO ALWAYS CALL YOU OR INITIATE PLANS. SPEND TIME TOGETHER AND TELL THEM YOUR FEAR LET THEM LOVE YOU!!!

[@macioanasava.official5084]

Answer the phone calls,...anwer the messages ....don't let the other person in the clouds thinking why you didn't answered in 2 days .....tell them if you have a bad day or a bad week...make them feel safe around you...let the river flow...let the other person love you...hold their hands and don't be afraid of intimacy..That's healthy interaction...saying "Good night" to your potencial lover and showing care...is another way of healthy interaction.If you have any other questions I would try to answer them. It is a huge step if you have realized you are avoidant.

[@tellitlikeitis5028]

Leave. The answer to all is leave. Stop trying to convince them of anything and run. It will drain you.

[@jessklay8594]

My DA would just gaslight & outright lie. I wish he would’ve tried to laugh it off instead of trying to get me to deny my reality & think I’m crazy

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

That sounds like a narcissist, not a DA.

[@Alixir1228]

​@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Lifeavoidants will do this as well.

[@TaranJHook]

I saw all of these unfold in a single conversation once with a friend, in order, this was wild to watch. Still trying to figure out how to navigate the topic with him since even after 6 months it's still causing some issues. The few times I've invited him to talk about it he pulls back or says he'll 'deal with it on his own', then once I give him the space he asks for, he's blowing up my phone. I'm not going to abandon him if he needs help, but at the same time I have no idea how to even remotely put him at ease. :(

[@markcafebrown2883]

Yes I was gaslite by my wife a few times. She just would talk to me about something that needed talking about. I learn that yes it’s gaslighting but in reality they are freezing not meaning to do that.

[@davewebster689]

My DA straight after I broke up with her suddenly wanted to communicate again, blaming me for what had led us to this point and indirectly convinced me for us to give it another go. She communicated hard for like 3 days like the good old days and then began breadcrumbing me, messaging hardly at all, until I had enough and ended it a week later. I feel like she was afraid to be alone and only wanted to get back together to buy time to find someone else to begin a relationship with. Then of course she could actually never end it with me and left me to get fed up, feeding me empty promises to meet up. I arranged to get my things back from hers, during which she communicated the bare minimum (which is fine), but once all was said and done I said for her to take care of herself, but she never bothered to reply in the slightest. Ive never been treated with such contempt before.

[@surgeonvicryl4872]

well said. unfortunately, I received all the pain and traumas her exs did to her, i was caught in the line of fire and she held me accountable for all the s*** her past did to her. I tried to speak to her positively and all.. she went blame gaslight then full defensive ignore mode. its a lot a work, not for me. I understand DA needs love as well but its best they start with therapy, love themselves first before getting in relationships.

[@visponvi]

Why do some DAs hate phone calls so much?

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

I'm a healing FA/SA not a DA, but I have mostly leaned avoidant my whole life. To answer this from my perspective, there's a few reasons. One is that I just prefer texting and don't see a need for phone conversations. Another is that I don't want to commit myself to a phone call...esp if the person has an extended hang up process like you go to end the call and they start up another topic. And lastly, there are some people I like talking to on the phone and some I don't. One of my closest childhood friend's is one of them. She's literally one of my favorite humans, but I'd rather just catch up in person next time we see each other. Then there are a few friends I can talk on the phone with almost daily and spend an hour or so chatting. If it's someone who brought it up to me and said it bothered them, it would feel like an obligation to talk and I don't see why either party would enjoy that. I don't ever talk on the phone to people I'm dating for more than a minute or two.

[@foraminutethere23]

With mine we talked on the phone for like 20 hours before meeting. And now never again. She's so guarded once we got closer romantically

[@jackjanzen6061]

I don’t like phone calls either. Never did. I prefer them nice and short. Some texting is better for me I think.

[@Alixir1228]

​@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Lifemy avoidant bf has no problem talking on the phone with friends but never calls me.

[@Aurora-e6o]

My avoidant likes me to say/admit my faults (weird), and then maybe he'll get into his.

[@nickus51]

I have no idea how this is any different from a covert narcissist who operates out of fear as well. To this day I am so confused what actually happened.

[@SK-no2pp]

It’s not

[@andriataylor3487]

Thais please add a blip in avoidant video’s from the FA perspective as well as the DA. I believe DA is the avoidant side of FA but I need it tied together. ❤

[@tylershannonhoyt3938]

What if I'm married to and have several kids with the avoidant? What do I do if I'm so broken down I can barely function much less get out? I can't just leave and abandon my kids. Please help.

[@raxxtango]

this is all well and good...but when does the dismissive actually takes accountability for their actions and behavior? answer- never. kissing their rear end, presenting everything on a silver platter to a cold ambivalent partner who is incapable of putting any effort to address their own behavior / core issues? it becomes a never ending waste of your time and energy? ok...the dismissive had damage from childhood, but they don't have the right to have high expectations of you and none of themselves, (accountability), and...in essence, the dismissive is really a narcissist by another name

[@TA-cb1cn]

Yes I agree. Very painful to walk away but I have no choice

[@AmericanDreamer]

You said it! 💯 We are yet to see Thais and PDS staff addressing this. As well as acknowledging both indirectly and directly encouraging people to put up with downright emotional abuse⚠️ and asymmetrical relationship dynamics and encouraging viewers in accepting and viewing that as healthy, mutual relationship. When it comes to PDS DA "advise" /videos - it seems more and more like a *slow conditioning to enable and reward* (by tolerating!) emotionally abusive behaviors, bordering narcissism in it's full blossom. ⚠️ Then again - is important to keep in mind that Attachment *Theory* is just that - a theory! Not an ultimate truth, it's a *theory* ! And it might be rather healthy to keep it in mind.

[@LeeChrissy]

What I don't think a lot of people realize is that sometimes their own behavior is unhealthy and the dynamic between themselves and a DA is triggering for both. Thais isn't promoting staying with unhealthy people. She's trying to get other people, especially other unhealed attachment styles, to understand why DA's do what they do and if you choose to stay and work it out, here's some techniques. She herself was an unhealed FA and by addressing her own issues, she was able to have a healthier outlook on others. Personally I used to stay in relationships based on potential rather than whether or not they were a good fit for me. Now i just leave if it feels unhealthy and I hope others do the same. We're not being held hostage. We can leave.

[@Alixir1228]

​@LeeChrissy many times, including in my own case, we are on our way to healing and the avoidant and their behavior cause us to regress. They are the direct cause of our unhealthy behaviors. Which is why we leave, we hate who they turn us into.

[@agent_exodus]

Realistically, I’m wondering what the stats are after going through the gauntlet of confusion, pain, learning, exhausting oneself in ways that defy comprehension while the DA couldn’t be bothered with a modicum of concern for your internal well being (especially at the expense of being involved with the DA), deciphering the DAs behavior… etc. what percentage of these dynamics actually becomes functional in any meaningful capacity with a DA? I mean, really…

[@tucky3191]

Love soooo much

[@jacopofbargellini4005]

The question is why a loving and caring person should take a course to learn how to treat a DA which will continue to treat you badly? Given that is very unlikely ( actually impossible) that a DA follow whatever the course to improve, because they have nothing to improve, they are totally unaccountable and, as my ex loved to say to me all the time :"I dont owe you anything, let alone an explanation for my behaviour". The only thing you have to learn with a DA is run at first sight.

[@AmericanDreamer]

Exactly that. ❕

[@LeeChrissy]

You might just not be the right fit for a DA. I typically date this style because like myself, they don't have a ton of needs to be met as they can meet most of their own. There's nothing wrong with that. We should see people as they are and break it off if it's not a good fit or no room for compromise.

[@TamagoEgg]

I have a question Thais. If I am willing to give unconditionally without expecting anything back(as requested from the person). However, the receiving person starts to distance themselves probably because they feel indebted to me but I do not feel this way. When being asked or when I continue giving, they become hostile and aggressive or passive aggressive. What may be the case? /genuinely curious

[@GeoffreyAngapa]

If I may offer some thoughts. As humans, we want to give unconditionally and don't wish anything in return. But whenever there is an asymmetry of giving, it tends to lead to the downfall of a relationship, or at least causes damage. The giver eventually feels resentment at the one-sidedness of it all, and other party feels indebted or that they owe or have to obey the other person now. As my grandmother would say, "A relationship must have give and take." It's got to be symmetric. How does one achieve that? Through unromantic, cheerful negotiation of each side's needs, and reaching the middle ground where both win. Compromise. I would also tone down the giving and see if it helps. It's likely that the giving is "aiming wrong" and being wasted. You need to find out what their needs are and meet those only. And vice versa.

[@TamagoEgg]

@@GeoffreyAngapathank you, I understand what you said. I need to change little of the context as I didn't put it well enough. In my case, the giving was asked for and when I tried to give, he starts to avoid. There was not a single resentment from me, just pure intention of giving because I have a huge capacity that I do not mind to give and that's definitely within my limits in a healthy manner. I have no problem saying 'no' when I can't give at that moment.

[@leestein2639]

When I asked my DA about this exact behavior, his response was "I'm concerned about expectations." When I asked if I had said or done anything to give him the impression that I had expectations he said "No...this is just my general experience of my partners, that they expect things of me in return (more time and attention, etc)." So even if you don't have expectations (but I would invite you to be really honest with yourself and question if that's actually true), the DA will assume you do. Then their DA instincts kick in (fear of losing independence, fear of intimacy, fear of abandonment). Hope this helps.

[@TamagoEgg]

@@leestein2639 I see. Thank you for your input. What you stated is one of the perspective from a person, it's helpful. It must be difficult for the DA to experience the trauma from the expectations that have been set on him/her since young. I can also see how the behaviour would trigger an anxious partner because as safe space wasn't created. I think for this case, it would be great for me to set my own boundary and do not allow the DA to bring his trauma(assumption) into the relationship and make sure that he feels my action is coming from pure genuine giving.

[@GeoffreyAngapa]

​@@TamagoEggI understand and can relate. I think with an avoidant, or an FA at any rate, they shift the ground so to speak, making you believe or imagine this is what they want, and then when you do, they retreat and pin it onto you, as if you're doing something wrong. Perhaps part of them is not happy having to receive, it clashing with their independence and self-reliance.

[@TheAlixir]

The more I heal the more I become disillusioned by my DA. The way he communicates is starting to be a turn off. Also the inability to see things from someone else’s perspective is frustrating

[@ShimmerSoulSong]

I wish I'd known before that she had not learned through modeling the value of warm care concern empathy. I assumed she hadn't learned due to socializing primarily online and so many In Person skills were clueless to her. But I think now it's due to being DA and neurodivergent. What's worse is my Upset and attempts and anger were called abuse which I now realize is Gaslighting. You hurt me, when I try to tell you, you dismiss, and then blame me for getting upset at coldness.

[@hx1487]

What to do, is leave the relationship before the damage gets even bigger, like you have a child together, buy a house together or get married. Leave while the damage is only emotional

[@theappreviewguy86]

I have a question. So my situationship person and I took an attachment style quiz at one point when we were together. Her results said she was a Secure attachment style and I was Anxious. After really looking into all this and watching your videos I am 1000% sure she’s a DA, I mean no doubt in my mind she hits all the markers. I hate to think she fudged the test on purpose but is it possible that a test like that could be wrong? Also how can I communicate to her that I really need her to watch your videos? I’m desperate to find a solution to our problems but I feel like I need her to start by acknowledging her faults without upsetting her further.

[@aya123444]

Yup a fucking nightmare when texting.

[@Assdfgresa]

What do you mean? ,regarding how they never do but every 2, 12 , 2 days , ect?

[@jsav9979]

Lol no kidding 😂😂😂😂

[@cspace1234nz]

I met a woman three months ago, we have had the most wonderful time together in every possible way. Then one evening a week ago she just shut down right in front of my eyes for seemingly no reason. After 3 days of that crap I ended the relationship, nipped it in the bud. I did a relationship like that many years ago, it nearly killed me. Never again. Get rid of them

[@FoulMoodFighter]

As far as stonewalling I would “run” or put a “wall”. Is that common. I use those terms a lot yet I rarely hear professionals use those terms. It’s what we’ve realized I do “run” and “put up walls” plus all of the other DA things.

[@Antaeres]

Hmmm I'd say being stonewalled by a "friend" / housemate for three months ignoring my existence, and turning everyone we know against me for standing up for myself and others they disrespect is actually narcissism. Denying someones existence isn't always a survival tactic

[@Madamchief]

Except they don't 😒 "struggle" suggests effort. With emotionally immature people like avoidants, there's like zero effort to understand the emotions of others

[@Neihlos]

They can’t process their own emotions let alone someone else’s 😂 . I’m not saying hate them or treat them poorly but it’s easier just not to get involved from the beginning.

[@west1554]

How can the dismissive avoidant respond better in this situation?

[@andreatorluemke4982]

Thais I really want to feature you on my online summit healing from heartbreak may 11th. I’m going to reach out on email rather than just here. I love your work! Xxo!

[@Grey_matter00]

Yup! Never dating again thanks to the emotional, mind fuckery number my ex FA did on me. No one is perfect but I accepted him fully as he was and supported him through everything. One day I found the courage to question the huge disparity in the relationship and simply asked for more quality time but was flat out denied. He did however eat the home cooked meal I made him, took home the gifts I bought to heat his freezing apartment (as he refused to move in with me). I even gave him a ride home with all the stuff because his broke, irresponsible ass didn’t have a car. He said he’d come back that night to do the dishes and talk but I never saw or heard from him again. Knew him for 7 years, dated for 4, disappeared a year ago, status unknown. Did me a favour, I blame myself.

[@Ace-ko4yw]

Tried that and was told that it sounds lowkey gaslighting to her. Hopeless. I'm out!

[@Jae-by3hf]

All of these behaviours sound like a narcissist, I know that DA’s have empathy and are kind but this side of them is so hurtful. It would be helpful if we could have more videos showing the difference between DA’s and narcissism.

[@jurgenwehner3607]

I wish I could see the difference between a narcissist and my avoidant ex-partner. I don’t want to see her as a narcissist; what would be the most telling difference?

[@Itsmariaaaa]

This is a great question

[@nickus51]

I agree. After learning about DAs from this channel and learning about narcissist from doctor Ramani, I can't seem to diferentiate them. My ex fits both so well, which I would love to not be true. They can be so hurtful.

[@tiktokshock4652]

@@jurgenwehner3607 Narcissists fall into a pattern of idealization (usually the lovebombing phase) & devaluation (discard phase). Their motivations have a lot to do with control & needing to feel & be seen as superior in order to feel like their existence is validated. Dismissive avoidants don’t necessarily lovebomb, want to be the center of attention, or control you.,Things do tend to start on a high note with them, but then as you get closer & real feelings develop they start to withdraw in fear of needing you and/or being needed which is their biggest fear. Honestly both stem largely from abandonment but one (narcissist) has a personality disorder that makes them incapable of empathy & all about manipulation, & the other (da) has genuine feelings but feels uncomfortable with them, doesn’t know how to navigate them & reverts back to the most familiar & comfortable space for them which is distant. Hopefully that helps to make some sense.

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

​@@tiktokshock4652hopefully people read your words as this is am important distinction.

[@kunntakentay]

I avoided my wife for over a decade and now she hates me 😞

[@chiaraA.]

How desperate are you - that really is the question. It's easier to train a spider than to train your DA... meaning not at all

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

DA's are actually pretty amazing humans. They only let their guard down and are vulnerable with certain people and as a FA, I can relate. Nobody should have to "train" anyone. They should just date people they're more compatible with. I know that I'm personally not compatible with anxious AP attachments, so I just don't date them. No need to try changing anyone.

[@Alixir1228]

​@@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Lifeemotionally abusive, cold people are not what I'd call and "amazing" person. You cannot identify as an SA the way you enable tf out of avoidants all over these comments of all of her videos. Like a pick me for avoidants.

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

@@Alixir1228 girl I get along with anxious, fearful, secure and avoidants in my life. Every single person is flawed and not one is better than the other. My avoidant friends and those I've dated show up for me just the same as everyone else. Probably because I don't judge them. I've never been "abused" or treated "coldly" by an avoidant. If I did, why tf would I defend them? You are clearly bothered because maybe your avoidant treated bad but that has nothing to do with me. It seems you are unable to prevent yourself from pigeon-holing an entire attachment style, so quit projecting your situation onto me. No one's even talking to you, but you sure love talking to me.

[@junglemastah]

I wish you said goodbye

[@GodiscomingBhappy]

Sounds like a covert narc....😫

[@karinteeples9715]

They’re both very similar. My husband is a DA/covert narc tendencies

[@Det_313]

9:15

[@fernfractal]

easy. go date healthy ppl.

[@amitsalaskar1024]

The more u give ppl the remote control of ur life the more theyll f" u up... driver always has stiring wheel in his hand rest are passengers in the car. If u want to and concerned about the maintain and performance of ur car .. who needs to be on stirring wheel..Think

[@quentinadkins432]

So in other words they are abusive incompetent with superior needs crazy

[@Hrs3play]

Ah the AP comments labeling everything narcissistic. Happens every time...

[@tamelashafer8852]

💜♾️🙏🏼🕉️

[@walkertranger5746]

They can’t acknowledge your pain because a DA can not love .

[@Fresh_Baked_Bread_Is_Life]

Yes they can. They need to feel loved and accepted as they are and feel safe with their partner. DA's can actually be lovely people.

[@lisawilliams918]

Alot of justifying these behaviours of the "dismissive avoidants" and very damaging to the victims. Its no wonder the abuse cycle of fear obligation and guilt in the real victim carrys on. So dangerous and sounds like your telling victims to understand the abuser and ask in a better way for needs to be met. Surely, you understand that they aint meeting those needs right? I mean all us victims do. These videos are dangerous and giving false hope to people who need reality checks as help not this.

[@tiktokshock4652]

Actually I have no issue acknowledging their pain. I just am not the remedy for it.

[@macioanasava.official5084]

If you are avidant and acknowledge your potencial partner's pain then YOU are the PERFECT REMEDY!!! That's what we feel as NON AVOIDANT!! It is very importanr to HUG AND HOLD YOUR LOVER HAND WHEN THEIR ARE GOING THROUGH HARD TIMES ....One day your parents will no longer be alive or you may be in a hospital......then you will need your partner .....Your partner will give you so much love during that difficult emotional time... If you are avoidant just try to show your feeling...and hug the person who suffers....they would appreciate it FOR LIFE!! A partener must be there during hard times...not only the good and happy ones...

[@JosephStockdale-q5n]

Thank you. We both have attachments and are working very hard to get through. As the AP and Her a FD it’s been a difficult process. I feel I’m working harder at times but she definitely is putting in the effort. Definitely been a yo-yo 🪀 fuse for sure. 9 months now. She still has an issue with committing. I feel she like she prayer terrorizes her own time above our time together. Trying to not let this make me feel like I’m not a priority. She will usually make an excuse to Not see me more than wants to see me. She breaks her word a lot but away says she’s sorry. I feel she still has some commitment issues because she’s afraid of us failing or me letting her go. How can I convince her I’m sold on this relationship?