Why Ayanokoji VS Light VS Johan Isn't Close

[@NuchaReviews]

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[@Rishabhkhanagwal]

Have you read Johan document?

[@litanylikestodraw]

Johan is the best manipulator out of the 3. Koji is the best in terms of intelligence. Light is the best at outsmarting out of the 3. There's no saying who's better, it really depends on the catergory. Also if you were to put, let's say Koji in the place of L to catch Light, it would be very likely that Koji catches Light simply due to his lack of needing to accept the challenge like L did. This doesn't mean he's overall just better than Light and even L.

[@user-zb8hc2im4e]

Na

[@Hunter-zz1gw]

Koji outsmarts L and Light at the same time. He emotionless so there's no chance for them to win. Also koji has not shown his real potential. And it's confirmed that the best ability of ayanokoji is to adapt and learn constantly from everything that surrounds him. Koji is not the smartest, but if he is constantly improving, he is unbeatable at the eyes of Light, L or Johan.

[@ven.9531]

@@Hunter-zz1gw debate me lol light high diffs koji

[@Hunter-zz1gw]

I'm not debating a fan boy of light Yagami. And at least i gave arguments for my realistic point of view. Like saying Yagami high diffs Koki is wild, but, maybe u can't see how bad Is Yagami, his ego is so big that he probably cannot even realise about the real abilities of koji.

[@Imranmuslim71Imranmuslim-oy4cg]

No Johan is the best manipulation​@user-zb8hc2im4e

[@azagen2324]

Ppl rlly downplay Koji bc he’s manipulating “high schoolers” First and foremost they are NOT normal high schoolers by any means And second this is completely ignoring the entire purpose of the white room which is literally meant to make u superhuman damn near. Koji doesn’t fall short at all to Light or Johan. Koji can definitely match their feats if the plot was more serious in classroom of the Elite.

[@Ihatejohanliebert]

Doesnt change the fact Light or johan is BETTER at manipulation, Light was Facing against not just normal detectives, But detectives that Were Elite and complex, Like L, Naomi, Near and Mello, As for Johan, Sure his verse is a Bit less Complex than The likes of Death note and Cote But Johans OFF screen feats, INSANE manipulation results, He backs it up.

[@ecvgalang]

No. Ayanokoji is being downgraded because his fans claimed he is the greatest anime character while he turned into an overrated fodder

[@user-jwn272jsnoowq]

​@@ecvgalang nah that is because some of yuwici fan being mad about their GoAt lose to koji

[@ecvgalang]

@@user-jwn272jsnoowq Well but also a lot of Ayanokoji fans claimed he is the greatest and even says he can defeat Baku, and even then Detective Conan is also being downgraded because Ayanokoji fans think he can beat everyone

[@karmaakabane1113]

I agree koji are being downplay but i still dont see him above light or johan in terms of manipulation specially johan he might be equal to light but johan is still above both of them

[@MaverickKriss]

I see some comments saying that Ayanokouji has only manipulated high school girls who are in love with him, and that's it 🤦‍♂️ Light and Johan manipulated grown ass people because their surroundings allowed them to. Kiyotaka never had the opportunity to leave the Advanced Nurturing High School which btw is the most prestigious school in the nation (in that verse) and even in there he outsmarted another WR students and geniuses like Arisu and Ryuuen. I agree thats no the same as Light and Johan but take into consideration that Kiyotaka hasn't had the chance to use his manipulation tactics on another people outside that school...

[@Ray-pk7fe]

Imagine thinking the so called grown ass cast of Monster and DN are better than elite COTE students. Nonetheless, the argument is flawed and doesnt account the complexities and layers of manipulative process involved and solely focuses on the target.

[@why-him982]

He also ends up manipulating the teachers anyway🤷‍♂️

[@Big_Rich_Town]

@@MaverickKriss koji also manipulated scientist and his own father (even tho atsuomi also manipulated him). The things is most people don’t care about the process and just look at the range and they are anime watcher only for cote.

[@kavithakandeepan5529]

john literraly manipulated or the series takes place 19's where there is no camera or technologies if he were present in this era he will caught a long time ago

[@ieatminorsforbreakfast]

The ppl johan manipulated are fodders ngl

[@yuan900bg]

Here's my opinion by them using manipulation techniques Indirect Manipulation: Johan>Light>=Kiyotaka Emotional Manipulation: Johan>Kiyotaka>=Light Logical Manipulation:Light>=Johan>=Kiyotaka Direct Manipulation: Johan>>Light>=Kiyotaka Mass Manipulation: Light>Johan>Kiyotaka Pure-Control Manipulation: Johan>Kiyotaka>Light Individual Manipulation: Johan>Kiyotaka>Light Event Manipulation: Johan>Light>=Kiyotaka Financial Manipulation: Johan>Light>=Kiyotaka Overall Johan>>Light>=Kiyotaka Techniques Gaslighting-Light>=Johan>Kiyotaka White Knight-Johan>Light>Kiyotaka Triangulation-Kiyotaka>Johan>Light Coercion-Johan>Light>Kiyotaka Persuasion-Johan>Light>Kiyotaka Love Bombing-Kiyotaka>=Light>Johan Mirroring-Johan>Kiyotaka>Light Threats-Johan>Light>Kiyotaka Reversed Psychology-Kiyotaka>Light>=Johan Scapegoating-Johan>Kiyotaka>Light Guilt Tripping-Johan>Kiyotaka>==Light Infantilization-Johan>Light>Kiyotaka Blackmail-Johan>Light>==Light>Kiyotaka Silent Treatment-Johan>>>Kiyotaka>=Light Reciprocity-Johan>Kiyotaka>Light Self disclosure-Light>Johan>Kiyotaka Anchoring-Kiyotaka>Johan>=Light Overall techniques quality used: Johan>Light>=Kiyotaka Ayanakouji slams both in outsmarting btw.

[@rah7729]

Love bombing lol

[@therulerofstraightlines7647]

all of this video is just recap, there is no explanation for why they are not close or whose manipulation is better.

[@IronJuan76]

He literally liked your comment. Talk about agreeing.

[@cheolwulf]

Light got himself jammed up with L and the police. He fell for their TV stunt. I mean honestly they knew it was him.

[@mello7535]

The only person who really knew from the jump first was L and that man solved WW3 at the age of 9 so his IQ is through the roof Nobody other than L and his successors really knew

[@radenmassaidbaariq5797]

Ayanokoji > Johan > Light in planning Johan > Ayanokoji > Light in direct individual manipulation Johan > Ayanokoji > Light in indirect individual manipulation Ayanokoji > Johan > Light in mass manipulation Ayanokoji >= Johan > Light in seeing through people Johan > Light >= Ayanokoji in acting Ayanokoji > Light >= Johan in planning Johan >= Ayanokoji > Light in emotional manipulation Ayanokoji > Light > Johan in strategy Ayanokoji > Johan > Light in knowledge

[@radenmassaidbaariq5797]

That’s probably not all, but overall, Ayanokoji has shown more developed in depth feats which is greatly written and unique for the fact that it is foolproof for the most parts, with the fact of how he thought of every line of how the future would turn out and have a plan for each and every one of them or make a plan that denies every flaw of the parallel future. It really integrates with his robotic character and how far above everybody else that’s trying to get to him. He would probably ranked first in intellect in my opinion for that reason. The second would be either Johan or Light, but in a true sense of the sport, i’d say Light takes it. Because he has a lot of nicely written intelligent feats that are logical and often entertaining to watch clash with L. His dedication and planning goes so far ahead into the future and involves a lot of people, including himself, in the plan to fool and kill L. Also i swear this isn’t an ai generated response. Light takes it for his creative, maddening and bold strategies that he came up with under pressure and in a really short time. To me, it is way more impressive than Johan. Because Johan on the other hand, has the impressive ability to enter people’s minds and mess with them greatly, more than shown by anyone else here. And yet, not only does he have no nice well thought feat, or even any on screen, he also mostly manipulates children, old men, mentally ill people, people with a huge trauma, or insane people. We haven’t seen much of what he’d do if there’s a man with a decent will to live and is old enough to not be easily influenced and manipulated, much less a strong smart intelligent character.

[@zander513]

Canon Johan no diffs ayanokoji in manipulation

[@TheAfricanNightDemon]

Johan beats Koji in Mass manipulation and beats both (or at least Light) for planning

[@radenmassaidbaariq5797]

@@zander513 His only way of manipulation is brainwashing, with no explanation, and as i said, mostly brainwashes children, old men, mentally ill people, those with a huge trauma, and the already insane. He is the only one here who hasn't clashed with another intellectual character, although you have to give him credit for his mastery of the human mind that could see hundreds of steps ahead of what normal people would do. Ayanokoji and Light has at least shown the steps of how they did the manipulation, on screen, something Johan struggles to do so throughout the show except for a select few, and even those select few are to again, children or people with huge trauma.

[@radenmassaidbaariq5797]

@@TheAfricanNightDemon Johan's mass manipulation is staying under the radar from the police while changing identities. Other than that, i don't remember him doing any other thing you could say as mass manipulation. Of course, besides the kinderheim accident or the "town massacre" in the manga. But then again, you can fart in kinderheim and everyone crash out, and there's no explanation about the town massacre and how it precisely happens. My reason of Ayanokoji being above Johan is because, not only for the obvious on screen and well thought of explanation feats, but also because of how he have been juggling more and more manipulations from volume 1 all the way into volume 12.5 year 2 currently. He purposely became the centre of everything, orchastrated all of it for every major character in the series, all with on screen explained feats. Plus the fact that he is better than Yagami by far, and Yagami complexly manipulated every class leader without even meeting any of them in just a span of 2 weeks. I would have put Light above Johan for his 'memory erase' plan, as it manipulates the police, investigation team, L, Misa, the Shinigamis, companies using the death note, and even himself. And it got results, so it can go both way for Johan and Light. This also counts as planning too.

[@Mreditsdk]

Ayanokoji wins against both in a outsmarting battle Johan takes manipulation tho

[@sdviper5468]

fr and light can eat his potato chips without doin shi . his only impressive feat is that swapping the DN between shinigamis for gaslioghting L which can add to his logical reasoning cats yet still koji would take overall reasoning .

[@Arguswithrizz]

​​@@sdviper5468cope harder, by that logic koji only takes FSiQ against Johan

[@cuthisface]

⁠@@sdviper5468w ur logic every kiyotaka feats are worse lol what r u talking about

[@alphacat9663]

Very very hot take 😂

[@sdviper5468]

@@cuthisface had a stroke reading that + u should atleast know any feat koji have shown before spouting non sense . light is cr@p just like u and dont skip eng classes

[@fr0ntend]

Ayanokoji is borderline supernatural. He is like a human computer, in terms of straight IQ his surpasses the other two.

[@ishaansaxena6308]

Love of god, use the flipping LN for koji

[@maevav5645]

Manipulating, I believe Johan is the best planned and more realistic.🤔 If he can discover the secrets of Light and Ayanokoji, he can touch them. Light could find him, but can’t catch him. Ayanokoji could understand him and maybe that could make something, I think it would depend in who is the fastest. And from what I remembered Ayanokoji takes his time. But Johan can do the same work faster if he had the motivation as Ayanokoji had.

[@ironninja_1018]

Bro called Horikita Ichinose 😭

[@Eh-cv5tt]

It's canonically Ichinose in the light novel. The anime just decided to use Horikita for some reason.

[@TakuyaDelahoya]

Every single season we get a few mc's that are op asf, yet dumber than anyone could ever get (let's ignore the simply dumb mc's in general) . This trop has gone so out of hand that any time I see a strong character, in the back of my head I could see the author making them mentally weak just to move the plot forward. But Ayanokoji, Light, Johan, and Lelouch just hits different. The fact that ppl like you make videos about these characters and ppl like me watch those videos are proof of the impact these characters have on the anime culture.

[@cemalgordonjr]

One of them got a gun one of them got a death note

[@Cainesparrow3.14]

...it litteraly taking the two smartest detectives on earth to catch light

[@callmerisky1198]

This shouldn’t be an argument light needs supernatural help and ayan is a kid with less powerful ppl then johan . Johan might as well be a underground ruler

[@_HomTolland]

Finally

[@NuchaReviews]

THANK YOU GOAT!

[@yaboykev536]

I think it's definitely Johan no.1 but its close. What makes this comparison tricky is all 3 show clear signs of different manipulative personality types, in super layman's terms 1. Johan - Psychopathy : Lacks empathy, no guilt, prone to criminal and antisocial behavior, but has emotions, risky, impulsive behavior 2. Ayanokoji - Sociopathy: No emotions, knows how to manipulate other people's emotions while at the same time not understanding them himself, lack remorse, deceive, steal 3. Light - Narcissistic Personality disorder: Believing they are special, having unfulfilling relationships, gets unhappy, extremely angry or confused when things don't go their way So because of this , the stakes in their schemes are on drastically different levels. Ayanokoji just want's to feel emotions like a normal human, so he schemes to remain in the background and blend in. Johan is a nihilist, so he schemes to destroy everything. Light is a megalomaniac, so he seeks to control the world. So on the surface it would seem that Ayanokoji is only manipulating teenage girls, but its not. He manipulates adults just as much, but his stakes are lower because his goals aren't as lofty. So I'd put him no.2. Light only loses because of his overinflated ego, and the only reason L even gets on his trail is because of his pride. I doubt L , Near and Mello combined would have caught Johan or Ayanokoji because they would have done a much better job covering their tracks and wouldn't have been baited into revealing themselves over anything as insignificant as pride or ego. So 1. Johan, 2. Ayanokoji, 3.Light.

[@adarshvarshan4443]

Bruh Ayanokoji has emotions bro it has been reiterated multiple times, also how can you manipulate other's emotions without understanding it yourself? Ayanokoji definitely understands what other people are feeling. In my opinion Ayanokoji>Johan>Light.

[@yaboykev536]

@@adarshvarshan4443 I'm speaking as an anime only, so I can't say if things are different in the LN and Manga, but as shown in the anime he doesn't have emotions. The only emotion he's shown in the 3 seasons of the anime is anger at the teacher when she tried to blackmail him, and slight amusement when he raced Manabu for real. Sociopaths are experts at manipulating people because they study peoples reactions deeply and learn how mimic behaviors and actions to evoke specific responses. But, they don't know what its like to feel those genuine emotions. For example, say a husband gives his wife a gift out of the blue and it makes him happy to see her happy. A sociopath can't understand why seeing the wife's reaction makes the husband happy, because they don't have the emotion. But what they do pick up on is that giving someone a gift out of the blue makes them happy, so they take note to use that to manipulate people to further their own goals. They don't understand the emotion or why an action evokes a particular emotion, but they do see what caused the reaction so they just mimic the behavior.

[@Bhoot_6969]

yeah...as if i am going to watch a 37 MINUTE LONG VIDEO just for knowing who's better? Nah 💀😭

[@error-4269]

How to defeat any manipulator: don't trust anyone ignore everything.😂

[@karmaakabane1113]

That's just stopped you from being manipulated a manipulator can still manipulate people around and can target you

[@The_BlackGoose]

Johan : Are you faster than a bullet ?? Ayanokoji & Light : ....

[@RenderingUser]

Koji has the best feats of intelligence out of the 3. but may lose to johan simply due to habits. koji prefers being alone. johan prefers making as many connections and gaining as much power as humanly possible light is... mostly a gambler so he gon lose this contenst is mostly going to be koji vs johan. and winner is entirely circumstantial

[@AdamAhmed-r2v6b]

your underplaying lights feats, wasnt he ranked at the top of japan in his studies at the beginning of the series? He was playing everyone from the beginning a lot of people in COTE suspected ayanokoji of being something special but if it was light no one would realise a thing he can show himself off as a perfect model student easily with good morals and character. Also he wasn't entirely gambling his whole issue was he was bored so he liked to seek a sense of thrill but that played out in his favour a lot of times. Also you said koji has the best feats of intelligence out of the 3... you need to rewatch death note. Getting L's name when L suspects death note needs a name is the most impressive intelligence feat koji cant do that he isnt a good actor like light he would be exposed quickly and the only tools he could potentially use are the police force which wouldn't go in his favour.

[@RenderingUser]

@AdamAhmed-r2v6b here's the thing. Top of studies means nothing if your feats don't show it. Koji is also a much better actor than light. Idk if you've even read cote

[@AdamAhmed-r2v6b]

@@RenderingUser first episode his teacher realised he was controlling points and you tell me he is a better actor? 😂

[@RenderingUser]

@@AdamAhmed-r2v6b that's not what an actor is. Also lmao you've proven that you haven't read the light novel without saying you haven't read the light novel

[@Trxnyts]

They are in a special school, so they are clearly going to have SPECIAL teachers. What is the point of having teachers if they don't have a good understanding of their surroundings?

[@chrisgaming517]

Now do all 3 of them vs Batman( The Dark Knight)

[@churchyll_]

If we’re being honest, Light isn’t that smart. It’s just plot convenience that makes him seem so. Proof: the reason he was able to evade L throughout the entire show was because he had supernatural help. From the death note being something nobody knew about to Ryuk helping him multiple times. Even defeating L was through the help of another Shinigami. Even after L dies, the reason he wasn’t caught was because he was leading the task force but the moment everyone knew about the same information he did about the Shinigami and the supernatural, he was caught quickly. In essence, Light is average at best

[@clickbaitjr3390]

Rage bait

[@mEmory______]

Yeah, that's not true. Light was very well able to cleverly use resources he had to get out of extremely sticky situations, although those situations were the results of his own mistakes. Still counts tho

[@churchyll_]

@ Give me one situation where he got out by himself without using supernatural help?

[@churchyll_]

@@clickbaitjr3390 I’m being serious and not rage bating. Light isn’t smart (compared to the other characters) in any way shape or form. Just multiple plot conveniences and having a Mcgoffin

[@mEmory______]

@churchyll_ 🤨 the point is that your premise is wrong. Him using supernatural help does not mean he didn't show capabilities to use his resources well.

[@saadharizi1371]

Just pause an think about what would happen if Ayanokoji had the death note...

[@BishalDdest]

I haven't watched monster so i cant say who is the best manipulator

[@spiritbreakeryt]

With this logic, Johan literraly manipulated children and adults in the orphanage at a young age. Even wealthy families he was in, politicians and businessmen at that. He did it without them realizing they were manipulated til their death. He did this without being caught his whole life. Koji manipulated highschoolers, yes. He also creates scenarios in his favor. That is good. But he's story is still ongoing. Light defeated L succeeded manipulating everyone but later was defeated. It is also true that his world is different than the 2, and has otherworldly powers giving him an advantage. So i think, Johan is better than Koji, and Koji is better than Light.

[@ultron-2243]

Johan>>>Ayanokouji>Light in Manipulation

[@MrBrilliant-pro]

Actually Johan > Ayanokoji >> Light in manipulation but in outsmarting Ayanokoji>> Light ≥ Johan I've watched all three shows and this fits well

[@Urem-d3y]

​@MrBrilliant-proif by show you only mean anime than light>johan>ayanokoji, But if counting ln than yeah

[@MrBrilliant-pro]

@@Urem-d3y Yeah I'm counting LN. But still in the anime as well Ayanokoji's Island exam feat matches Light's memory loss plan if not exceeds it. Not sure if any of Johan's plans actually match that level.

[@Arguswithrizz]

Nah bro light slams ayanokoji in manulation.

[@Urem-d3y]

@MrBrilliant-pro thing about johan is he's highly interpretive character, even on outsmarting feats so kinda depends, About memory loss, I don't think that even a bit, Ayanokoji in anime was highly less detailed, for example, his reason for not thinking its katsuragi was just cause he's a cautious man, while we didn't even see him on anime or at least interactions with him, it in anime feels like he kinda got lucky with the places he was in, but in ln he does try to get knowledge for the whole island feat

[@ws_zilch]

Johan>>Ayanokouji>Light

[@Big_Rich_Town]

Manipulation: Johan > light > koji. Overall smarter: Koji > light (idk about Johan would need to reread monster).

[@sickandtired9281]

All according to aizens plan

[@maevav5645]

Maybe for Light and Ayanokoji, Johan was before him. I take that in count.

[@sickandtired9281]

@maevav5645 aizen already planned for that to. Aizen is thousand of years old so Johan is a baby

[@Eran55]

Really Good video, in terms of Manipulation i think they all up there, like we all know that happened to light L death was his down fall in tha category blud just stopped using his brain effectively. Might just give it to Johan because of how he operate ngl ma boy Kiyo is up there just not seen much from him in terms of high level manipulation not saying he can't do it though probably can.

[@shreyan8664]

I agree with everything but u have to consider that ayanokoji fights a bunch of high school students who r not at all his level while light at his age was fighting the japanese police, fbi and the world's greatest detective

[@Blazeinferno1000]

@@shreyan8664 2022 ah logic

[@20.manishnarayanshaw10]

Remember that light had a death note

[@ALEXANDER-ALLEN-000]

With a death note

[@Big_Rich_Town]

@@shreyan8664 ⚾️

[@cuthisface]

@@20.manishnarayanshaw10how does that change his skill to use it tho?

[@jallukolaa]

2 psychopaths and 1 narcist. i'd say johan wins by default by exprecience and being unhinged

[@MMadMan-v4j]

Nic vid! I think all three are very good in their own ways but koji might be the best tbh

[@Yuuichiba]

Imo Johan >= Ayanokoji > Light

[@Trqsh4387]

I don’t know the Johan guy but I really do think Ayanokoji is smarter than Light. Bro was literally made to be better than everyone.

[@WesttWilliams-i1j]

Light lowkey had the most potential out of the 3

[@PoH27]

Patrick jane vs ayanokji

[@Um_fã_de_Pringles]

PJ hight difficult

[@sryhcisaw]

@Um_fã_de_Pringles Exactly Perfect Diff High(-)

[@notaissoeumanota7502]

PJ takes it; either high diff or extreme diff. Depends on whether you count LN or not.

[@kilato9649]

All 3 are satoko victims in literally everything anyways

[@ALEXANDER-ALLEN-000]

Kiyotaka has better psychology knowledge and intelligence than Johan and light. Johan and light just have better feats than Kiyotaka It's clear based on their upbringing that Kiyotaka has those type of education better than both characters Also the Author always potrays him using 50% of his abilities meanwhile holding him back because Kiyotaka is yet to find someone on his level (In his verse) this does not mean Johan and light aren't vast in psychology but you can't compare it to Kiyotaka psychological intelligence. BTW I'm a Monster fan, but I can't be unfair

[@Blue-wt9ki]

Johan in new era could get clap so hard ngl bc bro take place in 19 only where no camera around

[@maevav5645]

@@Blue-wt9kiJohan would used it, as he uses everything else. The guy as a child learnt fluently a bunch of languages. Created and destroyed a criminal organization before eighteen, took a lot of points in economy and planed with details the death of a lot of big fishes and use mental ill criminals like puppets before 21. (Even though his biggest “mistake” is his humanity: his mother and sister, his own feelings and someway Dr. Tenma)

[@RenderingUser]

the two only have better feats in terms of effect of their actions. not really feats of intelligence, which is what should really be compared

[@ALEXANDER-ALLEN-000]

@RenderingUser exactly what I'm implying my gentle man, manipulation is under psychological intelligence and Ayanokoji is more knowledgeable about it than the two.

[@samuraituff9653]

This debate been long over koji is literally the best manipulator nither these guys or yuuchich comes close and if any of you actually read the light novel heck even the manga you would understand but you don't because you're just basis and only likes one show Koji can manipulate anyone weather that's by force by beating them tf up or just using phycology stuff to trick and outsmart people. He can also use blackmail and other stuff to get things to go his way. In if they were all trying to manipulate each other johan and yuuchich and light have all lost their composer or whatever it's called and cracked or slipped up and show emotion koji has not. Some people already explained why koji wins but people don't listen and honestly who gives AF why are people still aguring about this in 2025 like grow tf up and stop comparing and doing vs battles

[@TomasBregman]

Johan's manipulation is honestly far less credible when you take into account the world each series is set in. Out of the three he's manipulating the least intelligent people. Outside of Grimmer, Inspector Lunge and Tenma, Nina and obviously Johan NOBODY in Monster is intelligent. They even have far less technology making Johan's secrecy even easier. The average german IQ in 1980 is going to be lower than the average Japanese iq in the 2000s pretty objectively. Especially when you taken into account the setting of each story. Class room of the elite takes place in an ELITE school where only future innovators, leaders and geniuses go too. Even being gifted is considered average. With Koji being described as a genius among geniuses. Unlike Koji and Johan, Light has L. Someone on par or possibly even more intelligent than himself and yet he still manages to win. Everyone in Death Note is above average. EVEN Misa. It took multiple organisations and three super geniuses to defeat Light. Even his defeat was pure plot armour as it is quite literally impossible. People seem to just forget that the people Johan manipulates are just regular people from 1980 germany. While The characters Koji and Light manipulate are all above average and gifted in some way. Lets evaluate: Johan was defeated by what is essentially regular people in 1980. Dies nobody actually remember the fact Johan literally got beat out by a drug guy with a gun?? Light was defeated by three super geniuses, with years of preparation and evidence gathering. And Koji even with multiple geniuses attending his school. Still hasn't lost. In terms of raw IQ and intelligence. Johan is absolutely the lower than Light and Ayanokoji.

[@user-jwn272jsnoowq]

And some kids will comment : PeOple DoNT knOW bouT YuWIci😂

[@jimmyhails]

No one is beating Johan.

[@TomasBregman]

A drug guy with a gun is

[@ven.9531]

dnr light slams v3n. on discord to debate

[@FlyAchX]

Johan>light>ayanokoji no concept of diff in a fight, outsmarting and writing

[@yinyang609]

Yuuichi Katagiri🤔

[@jakit0556]

Misaka mikoto no diffs

[@clickbaitjr3390]

Railgun fan I see

[@rewriter789]

Koji and johan never lost and light did Imo

[@vickydon5156]

Yuuichi katagiri laughing at the corner

[@Huegexick]

Fodder

[@qx_r]

Yuuichi katagiri crying at the corner*

[@bewarenoobincoming4997]

Ayanokoji solos, because he has a t-rex

[@Blazeinferno1000]

Ayanokoji spreads Light and Johan's Legs

[@Nanaseyko]

The others 2 also have that 🧐

[@bewarenoobincoming4997]

@Nanaseyko no proof, no real, send pic now

[@ieatminorsforbreakfast]

​@@Nanaseykonah koji negs every verse in size

[@noahzacharias]

Johan>>light>>ayanokoij in manipulation

[@mirfan6572]

Agree When it comes to physical fight Who will win😂😂

[@ieatminorsforbreakfast]

Cooked

[@rewriter789]

Koji no contest

[@soulswalker2157]

It isn't close, light writes their name in the death note. Done, finished, tf they gon do?

[@giyutomioka1421]

U don't understand the assignment brother

[@Hingeyboy]

@@giyutomioka1421 your fricken comment got me. i was trying not to laugh at all the ridiculous crap i knew was gonna be in the comments section, but you ended the chalange lol

[@kingsombra4053]

Ayanokoji >> Johan > Light

[@SuperiorEdits755]

Johan > Light > Ayanokoji

[@Ahmed22006]

Lelouch solos all hail lelouch

[@Ayohommie]

Give me one ayanokoji manipulation feat that wasnt on vunrable little girls

[@Huegexick]

Have you even read the light novel?

[@noahzacharias]

​@@Huegexickthen give me some if ayanokoji Light novel feats in manipulation?

[@RenderingUser]

spoilers for year 2 koji ended a cat and mouse chase againt number 2, without even needing to be in the room of literally the second smartest character introduced in the series

[@tvojamama4888]

ayanokouiji is cringe and edgy

[@clickbaitjr3390]

Light is better than Koji, I’m tired of the Koji fanboys pushing the agenda

[@Sh12pen]

Bro is more delusional than light

[@mitsaoriginal8630]

Lights IQ: 175 L: IQ 190 Near: IQ 165 Mello:IQ 145 Dazai: IQ 320 Fyodor: IQ 330 Ayanakouji: IQ 230 Lelouch: IQ 180-190 Yuichi: IQ150 50-70: actions 70-90: labels 90-110: feelings 110-130: logic 130-150: patterns 150-170: fuzzy logic 170-190: fuzzy patterns 190-210: “heart of the problem”---Elliott Kelley At the 250-300 range it all about 'breaks';........seeing contradictions intuitively is simply a form of synesthesia that I have. Perhaps everyone experiences this to some degree, and if so, you may be able to learn how to recognize it. Basically, when a contradiction occurs, do you notice something I call a “break" in your stream of consciousness? You must be very in tune with your own consciousness. Probably learning to do anything else that requires concentration will help build awareness. Once you have awareness of “breaks" you can use them as a type of superpower that will drastically increase your core intelligence. But this is all assuming you can find a way to experience these “breaks".-- John smith

[@gazeinthesky]

there are no confirmed iqs for death note

[@mitsaoriginal8630]

@@gazeinthesky You can estimate through feats.

[@gazeinthesky]

@@mitsaoriginal8630 What feats of L surpasses Light's memory loss and L isolation strat/plans?

[@pubghunter9094]

Manipulation will be like Johan>>Light>koji

[@kavithakandeepan5529]

john literraly manipulated or the series takes place 19's where there is no camera or technologies if he were present in this era he will caught a long time ago

[@maevav5645]

Na, if he was in a society with more technology, he would have learnt about it and used it as well. More easily mode for him. If you think about it🤔 But yeah, his universe has his nemesis Dr Tenma and his friends so, he can’t win because feelings. Because humanity. (I think that makes it more real)

[@RenderingUser]

@@maevav5645 If thats the case, you need to buff koji as well, because so far, hes only ever performed feats that he can in a school. he'd obviously act different when released to society

[@bobcob2640]

Manipulation - Johan >> Light > Koji FSIQ - Koji > Light > Johan Outsmarting - Light >> Johan >= Koji Overall: Light is the most well rounded of the 3. Decent FSIQ, great sq, strategy, and planning, great deception, good manipulation

[@KakarotSSJ4]

Midlight foddergami is the only clown here

[@Ray-pk7fe]

Ayanokoji destroys. Great video 🍷.

[@Yuuichiba]

Bro I almost confused you with Dax because of pfp 💀🙏

[@Ray-pk7fe]

@Ayanokouji-san-三 No worries 🤣. Dax is my homie. We both love Danmachi.

[@anjansikder3422]

Ayanokoji >=Johan>Light

[@elisavage1359]

Ayanokoji > Light > Johan

[@SVZ2K]

johan last is crazy

[@_Sxoul]

Johan being at last is diabolical 🤣

[@justsomeguywithamustache2901]

NGL after I've gotten older I've realised ayanokoji is very overrated in intelligence and manipulation, he's just manipulating high school students, who are mostly girls who like him, that's not something to glaze about😂😂 Light and Johan are more terrifying given that they took control of their whole world for quite sometime😂

[@gametophacker5047]

But the training he got is high

[@Yuuichiba]

This argument is ridiculous at best, have you even looked at the manipulation layer? Ayanokoji manipulates students, but intelligent students (like Ryuen for example), this feat alone already puts him at a high level for manipulating and using intelligent people. Now, as for the argument that he only manipulates girls, there is your mistake, you assume that manipulating girls is something easy or that in this case it is something disposable as a good feat, but I will explain: The entire manipulation process on Ichinose and Kei is very well done, Ayanokoji simply destroys them mentally, through his strategies (rumor strategy in V9Y1 and strategy X) and then helps them overcome their difficulties, in Ayanokoji's view, this would make them develop a kind of obsessive love for him, but that was *not* the only objective, he also intended to make them improve as people, in Ichinose's case, he wanted her to be a little more selfish and not always put others above herself, which produced results as seen in V12.5. In Kei's case, he intended to break up with her from the beginning and simply make her become more independent, all of this was for them to evolve, his entire layer of manipulation was very well done and well thought out with several objectives in mind, besides this argument of "he only manipulates girls" would work for Light too, he manipulated Takada and Misa and I don't see anyone belittling his feats because of that.

[@justsomeguywithamustache2901]

@gametophacker5047 like I said his intelligence is overrated, it's not bad, but for the story he's in, he's not really anything special

[@ahahallll3261]

Been saying this for years, classroom of the elite is goated, but it lacks tension because of how simple it's story is, that's what makes ayanokoji look overrated, If classroom of the elite had like a murder mystery vibe, then it's safe to say ayanokoji is better than light and Johan But at the end of the day, the story is mid

[@1est1]

​@@justsomeguywithamustache2901 Youre just hyping who you like the most, Ayanokoji with death note would never get caught, never, light is just childish. Ayanokoji and Johan are beats apart, but different beasts tho. Ayanokoji is just better at play the game/rules, Johan doesn't even care.

[@OnigoroshiZero]

Ayanokoji is peak, Light and Johan are nowhere near his level in almost any aspect. edit: But no one is close to the God Emperor Lelouch (for the image with him being 2nd after Light at the start, which is total bs).

[@Kuruno_Stasis]

I think determining the best manipulator is too circumstantial. All three of them thrive in very different environments. So while I don't have an opinion on who is the best, I will say the comments about Ayanokoji manipulating high school students as a reason why he is the worst is a flawed argument. Firstly, the setting being a school of exceptional people where even the stupidest among them are individuals with high potential if nothing else, meaning even if in high school they're likely more competent than the majority of adults. I mean, I'm pretty average and even I had no trouble manipulating adults when I was teenager, from authority figures to family. Once you're an adult you often forget how incompetent most adults are, and if you think about it you can probably come up with a time where you saw an adult completely outplayed by a child, and furthermore if you're old enough you can probably think of a time YOU were outplayed by a child. Secondly, in some matters teenagers are admittedly painfully predictable, but when it comes to emotional matters teenagers are inherently unpredictable by nature of their volatile hormones. Manipulation is predicting the outcome of your actions and taking advantage of that to control or influence a situation to reach your desired outcome. In the context of these characters we're talking about a more emotional variety of manipulation. I think arguably the act of manipulating such volatile people (teenagers) is MORE difficult than adults who are more set in their own realities. I would like to mention that by the logic of my first point, this point is less important to account for than it might be in a regular school.

[@mugiwaranoluffy-il9uf]

lelouch vitctims

[@AhmadMunif694]

Johan negs Lelouch in manipulation and Light also gaps him

[@Blazeinferno1000]

Johan>Light>Ayanokoji.But the Koji fanboys chose Ayanokoji to be the best🤣🤣

[@legrandelysee98]

😂😂😂😂Bro just say you hate Ayanokoji, he wins against Light and Johan

[@Ray-pk7fe]

Person : I think Ayanokoji's better NPC : Hahahaha Koji fanboys 😂😂

[@kaydenandrade3138]

Johan scales so much above both Ayanokoji and Light

[@Blazeinferno1000]

@@kaydenandrade3138 In manipulation yes.In intelligence or outsmarting nah

[@Blazeinferno1000]

@legrandelysee98 This take was about manipulation

[@percyjacksonstarwarslover4567]

No first

[@NuchaReviews]

W

[@WisdomCleaver]

Johan=>Light> Ayanokoji