Why Battle Tactic Matters - Mount & Blade 2 Bannerlord

#bannerlord #mountandblade
First video showing why battle tactic matters in Mount & Blade 2 Bannerlord. Simply charging might not work all the time. Each unit has their own purpose. Today we're going to look at lightweight mobile skirmishers.

[@sirzorg5728]

Split your archers into two groups, and try to keep them on either side of the Sturgians. That way, their shields will need to face one group, while the other group cuts them apart. I call it the Caladog Maneuver, as it is supposedly how Caladog tore apart the Legions at the battle of the Pendraic.

[@podrekreinhard]

Thats basically what the English did at Agincourt though it had less to do with shields and more to do with funneling the enemy and maximizing firepower into a concentrated area.

[@isonnol]

The moral of the story; "unarmored archers and javelin throwers OP" - Sun Tzu's arch nemesis, George Washington

[@LogitechXibanga]

not really, if it was a player he would have lost the battle easly, he only won because they were always on shield formation even when the enemy was running away

[@isonnol]

@@LogitechXibanga The battles of George Washington and Sun Tzu obviously prove that much 🙄

[@LogitechXibanga]

@@isonnol theres no sun tzu on the game ;)

[@notsyth]

​@@LogitechXibanga mate, have you heard something called humour?

[@LogitechXibanga]

@@notsyth yes, but theres no humor here

[@gmeister3022]

Great video, you've utilized the very essence behind guerrilla tactics, which are often employed by the "weaker" force. If you want to ramp this up, split up your force and attack them from multiple angels as you exercise the effective 'hit-and-run' tactics. Overall though, as I said, you've done great by counting on probably the most effective strategy invented in human history.

[@signoguns8501]

basically the horse archer tactic used by parthia, huns, and mogols, but without the horses lol

[@tony62197]

After they get close with this tactic retreat battle in outnumbered battles so u restart with full force and the enemy has less . Won many battles this way.

[@Sir_Hammock]

that is a extremely cheesy way to win outnumbered battles. I dont cheese

[@arturzimplayerpro2573]

in escort missions, cavalry retreat, infantry square and ranged on from rule, when the enemy gets close you get the arrows to square and put them inside the infantry square, just do not forget to make the horses run and to abandon your horse

[@Erks89]

Or you can split them up. Use one group to flank and hit them from behind

[@stillcantbesilencedevennow]

Hardest part for me is avoiding heavy combat so I can maintain control of the field. If AI takes over my army is lost. It's designed for a specific tactic of shield walls blocking for my archers, something the AI refuses to do.

[@BestMods168]

Yes. Ai is preprogrammed once the hero is knocked out. Thats why i always ride around the battlefield doing cheap hits here and there. I dont remember if rts camera mod allows one to take control over another in campaign. I know in custom battle it does. Maybe you can use that mod to still control your army if you get knocked down.

[@nowherefool5869]

1. projectile troops have limited ammo 2. when fighting against shield troops, ALWAYS split your projectile shooters into at least two groups, shooting from different angles. 3. the player draws a LOT of aggro. use this to your advantage. 4. i really wish bannerlord has a push-pause button.

[@Sir_Hammock]

push pause? can you explain?

[@nowherefool5869]

@@Sir_Hammock push a hotkey to pause the game. much like in some games with RTS combat, like total war series, rimworld, going medieval, noble fates, etc..

[@Sir_Hammock]

@@nowherefool5869 aaaaahh so like photo mode correct?

[@nowherefool5869]

@@Sir_Hammock if you can give troop commands during photo mode. with push pause or tactical pause (different games call it differently), you can pause the game and give commands to multiple units, then they will follow your commands when you unpause.

[@Sir_Hammock]

@@nowherefool5869 aaahh like that. that does seem very useful however for me the slo-mo is enough for me but that would be a welcome change nevertheless.

[@Accentrick]

Really needs a skirmish mode command like in total war.

[@BestMods168]

Sad thing is that ai use to do that themselves.

[@brycekiller1]

Use the engage command on archers and they will stay at range against infantry

[@burningfox4974]

@@brycekiller1 it’s better to do “charge/fallback” as engage makes them run away from all nearby opponent units without retaliating (Calvary for example). If you hit fall back, then they will fall back while still pelting opponents with arrows.

[@toastywrath2346]

Skirmishers are one of my favorites, i hold fire on them till the enemy is real close and when they all let fly at once it just demolishes their shields, then the fians clean up while the wall holds

[@BestMods168]

I agree. It's such an awesome sight when they all release at the same time.

[@TheHorreK2]

F1 + F3 is the only command a true Tyrant needs.... go my peasants go and die for me... (me with my 500 basic tier troop army against a 200 High tier army)

[@theasxut2842]

if you re outnumbered , never face the enemy head on ,make their cavalry do something stupid (like charging into your pikes and spears), use skirmishing and feint attacks to draw the enemy infantry into the wrong direction (away from your main infantry body), then use your cavalry to cripple the enemy ranged units , after this is done encircle the enemy on all sides and fire all javelins and other throwables . if the enemy has horse arches deal with them first then deal with the remaining wounded and weakend infantry by attacking with your cavalry and infantry . i conquered the entire empire with bandit troops this way .

[@ahhhhhhhh8228]

If you ever decide to make a video about this as a tutorial I’d be very grateful

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

​@@ahhhhhhhh8228When in doubt, remember you are still the main character.

[@LogitechXibanga]

just use cavalary and heavy infantry and you win the game

[@DmSL1906]

Mods like De Re Militari or True Armies of Calradia can help make army qualities more realistic.

[@sirzorg5728]

Infantry are slow, and heavy cav are expensive to maintain. The AI might be too dumb to properly exploit the weaknesses of heavy infantry, but any good human player would rip them apart.

[@2_protects_the_1]

2:16 those ragdolls though in full mail, as if the javelin hit them like a balista bolt. doing cartwheels back 10 yards.

[@Sir_Hammock]

truely the best part of bannerlord

[@marcustooturnt]

Heavy cav would be a nightmare

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

tactics are way underrated by many in this game, however I cant say I make a lot use of good tactics either, mostly its to do with archers because thats easiest. i often cant be bothered to use good (especially infantry) tactics even if that makes for way cooler and less repetetive battles.

[@BestMods168]

True. I think its good when one needs to preserve troops. Using the tactic in the video and cavalry harassment tactics saves the infantry for cleanup only. This minimizes causalities. Tactics would be more valuable if battles were a make it or break it for war.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@@BestMods168 exactly, the battles are unimportant, even with 1000 or 3000 troops, barely matters overall. And on top of that, most battles tend to be very one sided, because if you go fight without an overpowered army, you cant siege a fief and fight off 2-3 of enemies armies which almost certainly will come. Thats why I prefer the early game, but it goes too quick to progress I think. Or I just play too much at a time.

[@kadiralperencelebi]

My character have 250 leadership and 200 tactics but all I can do is f1 + f3 😅

[@PatRick-xl1jr]

Also using engage on archers keeps them kinda auto to staying back at shooting as much as possible

[@Captain_Sanders]

I usually lead cavalry around and wait till the infantry starts to engage then slam into the back with Valadian cavalry

[@BestMods168]

Yep. Exactly the best way to do it. I'll have a video up within the next few days showing what i feel taleworlds want cavalry to be doing in the game. Many people also share the same view as well.

[@Captain_Sanders]

My number one priority is to charge the archers first before turning around to attack the rear

[@kerbehklobbah5790]

Tactics like these, I feel, are only really necessary when fighting an army that is inarguably better than yours. If you have the better army you can usually just run at them and win, but when fighting outmatched you need to get creative with tactics like these.

[@EntombedToast70]

Or, yknow use tactics anyway so you dont have to get as many new troops?

[@cyberius14]

Or you know use tactics and become godly when you get actually good troops... Seriously why handicap yourself and waste money? You make no sense

[@madmantheepic7278]

@@EntombedToast70 eh idk, im kinda in late game now and armies can be made so easily why bother, other lords can get troops for you, ofcourse if you lose half of your army it doesnt matter but choose your battles well enough and not be stupid and you can win easily with just 1 big shield wall and advance command.

[@church6134]

Wha- what do you MEAN I can't just order all my soldiers to charge?!

[@Sir_Hammock]

i mean no ones stopping you, heck the enemy lords would want you to charge carelessly

[@ryuranzou]

I've been bringing my forces right up next to them and doing f1 f5 til they get too much distance then f1 f1 so they stay in range of them.

[@davynolan182]

Happy new year dude, hope your resolution is to make even more mods 🎉🎉

[@BestMods168]

Happy new year too.

[@thegermaniccoenus2525]

I mean in the defense of the cavalry vs. pikes issue, the cavalry in this game can literally still push through the wall of pikes and assail the pikemen from behind. Pikemen in this game are incredibly awful against every unit, even against shielded infantry where the latter can still penetrate a pike wall or create a really bad stalemate even though that wouldn't happen in a battle. Great tactical video btw.

[@K.D.A_24]

Pikes in real life don't really work like Rome Total War, they're meant to deny the momentum of a cav charge but in a close up melee shorter weapons will always dominate. Look up Roman tactics against pikes, there are accounts that the Romans merely slide in between the pike gaps and try to bring the fight closer. The issue I see with bannerlord are the unit collisions, they ain't as solid like in warband hence why pike formations gets thrown away by the physics of the game engine. Lastly, pikes work best in a combined arms but alone, they're vulnerable.

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@@K.D.A_24 the main issue are imo ai. worst is cav ai, both their logic&individual tactics and melee ai. + cant hit with spears 50% of time, or 80% on close up charge.

[@thegermaniccoenus2525]

@@K.D.A_24 Don't work like in real life? Well let's see what did the historical authors thought about the pike phalanx, now that you also mentioned "accounts", I hope you mean the historical ones not the modern ones. "¹The Romans, when they attacked the Macedonian phalanx, were *unable to force a passage* , and Salvius, the commander of the Pelignians, snatched the standard of his company and hurled it in among the enemy. Then the Pelignians, since among the Italians it is an unnatural and flagrant thing to abandon a standard, rushed on towards the place where it was, and dreadful losses were inflicted and suffered on both sides. ²For the Romans tried to thrust aside the long spears of their enemies with their swords, or to crowd them back with their shields, or to seize and put them by with their very hands; while the Macedonians, holding them firmly advanced with both hands, and piercing those who fell upon them, armour and all, since neither shield nor breastplate could resist the force of the Macedonian long spear, hurled headlong back the Pelignians and Marrucinians, who, with no consideration but with animal fury rushed upon the strokes that met them, and a certain death. ³When the first line had thus been cut to pieces, those arrayed behind them were beaten back; and though there was no flight, still they retired towards the mountain called Olocrus, so that even Aemilius, as Poseidonius tells us, when he saw it, rent his garments. For this part of his army was retreating, and *the rest of the Romans were turning aside from the phalanx, which gave them no access to it, but confronted them as it were with a dense barricade of long spears, and was everywhere unassailable* . ~ Plutarch's Life of Aemilius Paullus chapter 20.1-3 "The charge was made with great violence and loud shouting on both sides: for both advancing parties raised their war cry, while those who were not actually engaged shouted encouragement to those that were; and the result was a scene of the wildest excitement, terrible in the last degree. Philip's right wing came off brilliantly in the encounter, for they were charging down hill and were superior in weight, and their arms were far more suited for the actual conditions of the struggle... Seeing that his [Flaminius'] men were unable to stand the charge of the phalanx, and that his left wing was losing ground, some having already fallen and the rest slowly retiring" ~ Polybius Histories, the Battle of Cynoscephalae, book 18.25 "Many considerations may easily convince us that, if only the phalanx has its proper formation and strength, *nothing can resist it face to face or withstand its charge* .... The result of this will be that each Roman soldier will face two of the front rank of a phalanx, so that he has to encounter and fight against ten spears, which one man cannot find time even to cut away, when once the two lines are engaged, nor force his way through easily-seeing that the Roman front ranks are not supported by the rear ranks, either by way of adding weight to their charge, or vigour to the use of their swords. Therefore it may readily be understood that, as *I said before, it is impossible to confront a charge of the phalanx, so long as it retains its proper formation and strength.* " ~ Polybius Histories, book 18. 29-30 So I ask you again, which historical accounts are you talking about? Because all mentioned so far seem to contradict what you just said. Second, you mentioned pikes work best with combined arms? Every army in Antiquity has to rely on combined arms. And the battles here in bannerlord are good examples of that. Cavalry, infantry and skirmishers have to work together. It doesn't only fall on pikes alone.

[@BestMods168]

@@thegermaniccoenus2525 thanks for the good read. I really enjoy reading these accounts.

[@BestMods168]

@@user-wq9mw2xz3j theyve actually patch ai cavalry to not directly charge infantry during normal conditions. Theyll charge up close then turn back. Really cool. Ai cavalry just need to stay in formation during charges and stay closer to the player.

[@Runsofourlives]

Has anyone figured out a way to do single unit type squads again? I want my pikemen and my shieldwall and my skirmishers in different groups!

[@BestMods168]

the groups are clearly separated in the code. i'm not sure if taleworlds jealously locked access to it. but it does seem that taleworlds only call out the basic groups we have here and left out the others like heavy cavalry, skirmisher, etc.

[@Runsofourlives]

@@BestMods168 that sucks because I desperately want to do striking withdrawal tactics with battanian wildlings but it keeps putting people without javelins and shields in the gruop or with much lower athletics and it slows them down when they're doing a fighting withdrawal. I even got a sick ass banner that gives like +% infantry troop movement which has them easily out running pursuit even while still attacking

[@PsychoJuggaloForever]

the best you can do is playing with the group's unit preferences, i have shield walls as "shield+lower tier" and my 2H shock infantry as "heavy armor" theres filters for pikes, throwing weapons, etc

[@Runsofourlives]

@@PsychoJuggaloForever for some reason it's disregarding those preferences and putting units without thrown weapons in with my wildling skirmisher stack. Fingers crossed the next patch resolves this

[@wannieboy1834]

Maybe because you allocate too many troops? It's a preference. So if you put 20 troops in that formation and you only have 15 troops with throwing weapons the remaining five ore going to be random troops.@@Runsofourlives

[@pablodenardi]

great video, I've learned that the hard way lol,.. one of the things that is really difficult to me it's when the enemy or our own troops respawn too close or too far away from the position you are, so I try to maintain position as close as my respawn point is, "atracting" the enemy with horse archers... but when we have a large battle the groups start to mix, with horses and archers and foot infantry all in the same group... I've tryed to transfer troops between, but it never isolates with only archers, or only infantry and so on... do you have any tips on that subject? thanks again

[@BestMods168]

Yes. Thats a good strategy. I always keep my units close to spawn point so that things dont get out of control. Its a bug when the units mix. Usually the first time you fight a battle the units are mix. Then the next battle the game remembers which unit belongs to which group and fixes it. I will put in a suggestion online to help fix this issue. Hopefully the devs will work on it.

[@pablodenardi]

@@BestMods168 true and hard manage, but good to know it is a bug, its a pain in the... lol. Best regards from Brazil and thanks for the videos and reply.

[@connycontainer9459]

Why not split them so one group can shoot into their right hand side ?

[@BestMods168]

Indeed. That's another tactic I use which is an exploit. I wish ai would use a unit to protect their flanks.

[@isaz2425]

how do you minimize losses when approaching archers with your shielded infantry ? is it better to shield wall , regular formation or scatter ? and advance or charge ?

[@Creditis33]

Let them advance in a shield wall and once they’re close enough to a point where the archers draw their melee weapons, get them in a line and tell them to charge. That should do it

[@tuezme9929]

F1 + F3

[@z74d-oy2uj]

Alt+F4 - Can not loose a battle that did not happen / Lao Tzu or something

[@OSTemli]

Or you can solo charge with your companion in squad all Superman like you

[@sanchopanzavive]

I still dont understand how to get that "drone" vision during battles! I can just do first and third person vision pressing R

[@BestMods168]

RTS Camera mod. Its on nexus mod website

[@sanchopanzavive]

@@BestMods168 ohh I see....ok thanks🙏

[@AlShalPerish]

Keep em spread out wide so they should into the unshielded flanks when fairly close

[@e-TheWatchman]

excellent overview on archer vs shield melee. Now if only the mil sim community was as competent on console with coordination as a tactical based concept... may have to be on pc only... who knows...

[@PatRick-xl1jr]

Archers win you half to have them fall back and reform

[@435anubhav]

Now do it with khan's guard and you are invincible 🌚

[@BestMods168]

Use khans guard to attack or defend against khans guard?

[@435anubhav]

Defence against khan's guard is really hard at max difficulty, i have done it with fian champions but i had to cheese it with trapping them in corner and then force them to melee otherwise on an open grass map i think its nearly impossible to defeat them

[@basedyannis]

These troops look like fun to use. any chance you are willing to upload em, even just in xml format?

[@BestMods168]

Half of the stuff are custom items. You can make similar units using the empire short dress, roman tunic b, targe round shield, wrapped shoes, and a recurve bow.

[@basedyannis]

Sounds good. This video strangely put me in the mood to play with a light troops army like this

[@user-lg5xu6id5j]

What mods are you using? I like the shields

[@BestMods168]

Using a shield i made. Theyre called the pelte shield used by peltasts.

[@PatRick-xl1jr]

Warband did have better segregation to units

[@BestMods168]

Bannerlord did too but they disabled it. Not as good as warband though

[@kube410]

what do you mean?

[@DwightEdradaDiaries]

but how about the loot? if you run away. what happen to first kills you do?

[@comradechubs3755]

Its easy until developers nerfed the khan guards and instead of staying out of reach they charge into the enemy while i have 200 fian champions at a distence then charge while i use 100 khan guards that circle then join in to defeat an army of 700 and a great tip you can retreat to reset the battle and to resupply again push up yill your guys shoot and when they get close enough tell em to fall back and they'll keep shooting 🌚 the lesson here tier 6 troops kick as*

[@berjoxhn5142]

F1 - F3

[@SuperHansburger93]

How do you setup battles between specific units? Custom battles only allows you to pick a culture. What mod are you using?

[@BestMods168]

Theres a plus sign under the infantry, archers etc

[@ferred3056]

"...When they come here we RUN away..." Sound like you stole a tactic from Oversimplified's Videos.

[@alicebokka9002]

That's what I thought fr 😂. He's a man of culture

[@kittycatcat6962]

Khans guards like watch this lol

[@Battle-Simer04]

I like it

[@LinardsZ]

Beat fian champions with recruits if you believe that it does not matter with even ammount of troops. Tactics matter also afcorse. I can completly obliteratecataphracts with fian champions or other way around. It all is about being smarter then the opponent.

[@jaysonp9426]

🧀

[@xTenheart]

Your not even doing it right, i think itd be way smarter, to scatter them more.

[@Sir_Hammock]

there are basic tactics it's up to us to refine it

[@Dandoskyballer]

The game is too jank to do anything other than F1+F3.

[@EmperorKarlFranz]

That would be your bunk ass PC. Never had any problems running it on my RTX 3080 with a ryzen 9 5950x at 4k 120hz

[@Elgallo1107]

It works but it’s boring af and cheesy

[@felisasininus1784]

It's realistic. Also I don't see how crushing defeat and getting taken as prisoner is less boring than heroic victory.

[@TheVerendus]

It's just an example. A better tactic would have been to split up their forces with a smaller detachment to flank the shield wall.

[@jakepancake7176]

@@TheVerendusYea usually I got the archers taking shots going up with the shield wall or post on a hill spread out while the Shield wall pushes and I already send in my Horse archers in at the beginning to distract them and than Lead a Flank with the Cavalry Almost always quickly wraps them up enless they have A lot of mounted troops

[@DHAGSFU]

@@felisasininus1784 Its really not realistic, it only works against bandits who are all infantry and mindlessly follow you.

[@felisasininus1784]

@@DHAGSFU It's not realistic? Tell that to the mongols with their kiting horse archers. Tell that to every military skirmisher in the thousands of years of human history who took advantage of their mobility and ranged weapons to harrass their enemies or even eliminate them. Of course foot archers can't kite horsemen, but if you have fians and favorable terrain, you can still win against riders.

[@Crazyape69]

My army of 316 men have beat several armies consistently ranging from 300 men to 1000

[@brandonverzijl6234]

cap cap cap cap cap you bad nigga

[@Sir_Hammock]

one of my many proudest moments was when i had about 170 men against 412 men on the plains battle and they had like lot of cavalry a bunch of archers. just one problem low tier cavalry is pretty useless when your facing an elite force of cavalry and when they are stuck between 2-3 heavy infantry. after that their own infantry charged my shield wall they stood no chance with cavalry running them down archers raining hell on them and a my character swinging a 2 hand axe behind their backs. it was a glorious day that day.