Why BELOW ZERO failed next to SUBNAUTICA

[@RealMocoman]

I liked the first story line when below zero was in its first alpha stages, her sister was alive aboard the satellite ship and the main character came down to check on the staff who had not reported, when she tried to check on them is when she wws left stranded. Her sister began helping her from up there to find a way to leave. No clue why they chose to scrap that

[@Cricket-mo4vr]

Omg I remember this! When they scrapped the original story and killed the sister I was so disappointed.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

And she was nice to listen to. New Robin has so many lines that are just like, "get over yourself for two seconds!"

[@vladvulcan]

Yeah, the initial story was great!

[@StalkerQtya]

According to them, they wrote themselves into a corner with Alan. They didn't knew how to wrap up the story, with Alterra looking for the alien and why would Robin want to leave the planet for the alien world. There were conflicts about it in the writing room, then I think the main storywriter called it and left. That's when the rest of the team scrapped to OG story and reworked it.

[@romanbellic9580]

⁠​⁠@@StalkerQtyathe story could’ve had multiple endings then! An Alterra ending or an Alan ending, maybe even a 3rd ending as well. I wonder what problems they were having with the story that the couldn’t have thought about the idea of multiple endings being plausible. Sure it could add more development time, but that’s sorta why its in early access…

[@PhunnyConflicts]

What I love about the first game is that if you never wanted to return to civilization, you have that option. Even though I left that planet, there's still a little part of me still holded up in my base, waiting for my batteries to finish charging so I can start venturing out into the open sea with my noble Cyclops and valent Seamoss. So damn magical.

[@ejoman3002]

Man I was so into the first game that when i finished building the rocket, I just automatically starting building storage cabinets inside it and began filling them with food, water, and some materials that i may need. Wasn't till after I started the launch sequence when i realized "O wait this is the end of the game"

[@CasualGamr]

Aahaha me too! I was so ready for my next adventure, I think I spent a couple of trips alone just carting the best water bottles up to my ship 🙄 Whoever got my time capsule was a lucky SOB too - the thing was more packed out than an IKEA showroom 😄 Yeah, I miss that base.

[@ComboBreakerHD]

I'm doing what feels like my 20th playthrough right now, just finished a base that I always build to the north east cave entrance in the bulb zone.. Just lounging. Spent my last session building an observatory just cuz I know there's a leviathan somewhere, come and get me. Other than that? Waiting for some marblemelon to grow. I wonder if that radio will start blinking at some point.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

Personally I see this as my canon ending. Going back means a gargantuan mountain of debt, so…why? Why bother. Stay around, uncover more secrets of the planet, the precursors, eat some melons.

[@Jon_athanos]

@@ejoman3002 this brings back memories of my first time building the rocket lol, moved damn near all my shit onto it

[@matchbook3058]

My first time seeing a reaper was when i was trying to get over my overwhelming fear of the game and it's environment, so I decided that the best way to do this was to swim all the way to the aurora and back. I made it to the aurora without incident, but when i looked back down at the water after jumping up onto it to have a second to breathe and ease my anxiety, the mere look at the water sent me into a panic, I stood there for what felt like an eternity before finally throwing myself into the water. Everything was fine for about 10 seconds, before i heard the roar saw it's massive head underneath me. All I could do was just swim and hope that it would leave me alone, which did somehow work out for me. It's one of 2 times I've ever genuinely screamed at a game. I will never forget that experience. Needless to say, it did not, in fact, help with my fear

[@CasualGamr]

Lol I love this, it totally took me back. So what, you made it all the way onto the Aurora and when you jumped back in the water the Reaper was right below you?? And you managed to survive too? Many no way, I'm surprised you ever went back to the game haha

[@matchbook3058]

@@CasualGamr yeah pretty much, only reason i went back was because of how highly everyone talked about it and how pretty the game was 💀

[@dragonsofstorm4340]

so........ you were terrified of the game, so you went to the aurora, and when you decided to a reaper just.... appeared? man I will never stop regretting watching a playthrough of the game before playing it

[@CasualGamr]

Ah man I feel for you. When I was a kid, another kid on the playground told me the ending of The Sixth Sense. Just straight up hit me with words instead of fists. Then I watched it the twist was so lacklustre. Never got over that. One of the greatest movies twists ever … stolen from me 😩

[@arioamin]

Yeah people have a tendency to insist on spoiling story beats or plot-lines for others@@CasualGamr

[@empdisaster10]

The issue I have with a voiced main character on below zero is that in the first game every event you witnessed you reacted to. Not the character YOU. The first time you saw the aurora detonate, the first time you saw the gun, when the sunbeam blew up, When you made your first seamoth and cyclops. Those reactions were all you and I stead of a character going “Oh my god! *insert witty line here*” you had your own reaction and that made the moments that more special

[@Thy_cockroach_crusader]

i understand. below zero wasnt supposed to be a full game. it was more likely meant to fill in some story gaps and be a treat before subnautica 2. so the story was meant to be way less impactfull but i think they screwed up by making it to bad .

[@ilcorvo9559]

I agree with those moments, the game didn’t tell you “oh you can’t get in the Aurora until it blows up, you’ll need radiation protection etc. for all you know it’ll blow up and kill you. With the sunbeam “rescue” for all you know it’s a quick way to end the game.

[@jinxysaberk]

i’ll never stop disagreeing that a silent protagonist means you can easier see yourself as them. It’s a lazy excuse to not write an entire character and arc. You just make yourself sound delusional when you say ong i imagine myself in the video game…what are you 5?

[@Thy_cockroach_crusader]

@jinxysaberk it's called immersion

[@G.D.G.]

@@jinxysaberk The beauty about an open world game is that you choose who you are and how you respond to everything around you. You could be anyone with a silent protagonist, you MOLD who you are based on your actions. If youre an offensive player that takes a knife to every leviathan you see, you don't want your character spamming "OMG thats so scary! What is that? Run, RUNNN" or especially as it comes to Robin saying cringy shit like - "This material can be useful to further my exploration! I can use it to craft important stuff!" What is this? A tutorial how to chew food? Am I a gaming journalist that needs to be told "if you press spacebar - you can jump!"??? The dialogue treats the gamer like a 5yo who has never touched a game in their life. Not even a game, but life itself. Heck, it treats you like youre blind, stating the obvious like a Dora the Explorer - "If I follow that sound - I can find where that sound is coming from!" Its INSANE how shit Robins personality and lines were. They only made me do one thing - learn how to mute her. so I don't get to experience her "personality".

[@bombidil3]

I remember feeling whiplash just in the opening moments of the game. *MC gets warned she's putting herself in extreme danger, ignores it, immediately loses control and crashes, strands herself in a hostile environment, meteors crash to earth around her, potentially killing her at any moment* MC: :D That could have gone better :D

[@matthewbrown3981]

Quipping like a Marvel character. I groaned.

[@diggusbickus8382]

​​@@matthewbrown3981 Don't you know? We need quips! Everyone's doing it! More quips! Who cares if they totally ruin an emotional scene, right? 🤦 I swear man, it even started affecting my dnd games. We can never have an emotional scene anymore because someone will just butt in like a Marvel character

[@brianpembrook9164]

Even better! *goes to the planet, on purpose, with nothing but a pod, some flares, water and a few ration bars* "I'll find my way back." With what escape vehicle? You start with no blueprints. Robin even seems surprised to find rescources! No scanner, no equipment, no nothing. The plan was to die... How can we connect with that?

[@cypher09-qk8pn]

​@@diggusbickus8382 It didnt ruin anything y'all are dumb as hell

[@flyingwambulance]

@@diggusbickus8382 She's an empowered woman, why would she be scared or emotional? Of course she will laugh at danger, she is strong and independent.

[@cupocoffee9369]

I think the contrast between these two games is a PERFECT example of "show, don't tell."

[@thedrunkenmeditator2965]

my first reaper attack was back in early access. wayyyy back when the life pod wasn't nailed to one spot and could drift. after going to the new floating island, i was taking my seamoth back to my lifepod, and kept noticing that it was taking longer than usual. the coral and everything in the safe shallows also wasn't rendering in. then i finally got to it and realized, it had drifted all the way to the dunes. i tried to turn around and get right back out of there, but i immediately got grabbed by a reaper. i paused in the middle of the grab, quit, and couldn't open the game for the rest of that night. absolutely terrifying.

[@CasualGamr]

Ah maaan, what the hell, that sounds terrifying!! I had heard about the floating pod but I don't think I ever heard anybody talk about it before. I can see why they they might have removed the feature in that case haha

[@RPknight101]

Just thing that if that had been implemented fully and could drift and that reapers had an ai similar to Alien isolation...shenanigans galore. Ig get why they moved it but if they hadn't i think it would have been even more terrifying of a game.

[@Killdust99]

@@CasualGamrthere’s so much about Subnautica that so many people didn’t get to experience if they only played or saw the release build. EA was a whole game in and of itself

[@Nor1MAL]

I didn't even know about the reapers when I started playing, and I did it in VR. I screamed loudly, and I can scream insanely loud! Even with a game controller, it is the most immersive VR game still to me! Playing it on pancake mode doesn't faze me. I started killing leviathans in both games, after a shadow leviathan just pissed me off with in a cramped spot. I got into the Prawn suit and curb stomped him. I also killed a annoying leviathan in Subnautica after that. Why I didn't kill them before, well, I suspected it could ruin the game for me. Which it might have?

[@mirmalchik]

My first encounter with a reaper was terrifying, but i ran away and survived. My SECOND encounter, i was in the prawn suit and foolishly assumed I was invincible. I heard the shrieks, I ignored them. I found a wreck and began to explore it. The shrieks were louder, but I was inside the wreck, so I was fine, right? But my oxygen started to run low, so I decided to brave the reaper to hop in my prawn suit. I exited the wreck just in time to witness the reaper swooping down on my defenseless prawn suit, grabbing it up in its jaws. I tried to follow with my seaglide, hoping it would let go in time for me to hop in because I was much too far from the surface to manage that trip before my air ran out. Imagine my horror as I watched that cruel reaper smash my prawn suit to pieces against the seafloor, leaving me caught between certain death either at the jaws of the still-hungry leviathan or the more mundane drowning. So cruel. So well executed.

[@mrmilktrayman8002]

I think you've hit all the points you raised exactly on the head, especially the leviathans, but one more thing i'd like that made Subnautica significantly scarier than Below Zero were the Warpers. Warpers were my biggest fear, even bigger than the Reaper Leviathans and that's because Warpers could do one thing any other creature couldn't do, remove the safety you felt in your vehicle. I never felt particularly scared when I was in my seamoth or prawn because I knew that it could tank a few hits, or it was fast enough to get me away from it, but the Warper would suddenly dump you in open water, where you were very, very vulnerable. Every time I encountered one and it teleported me out of my seamoth or prawn, I would panic in a way that i had never panicked anywhere else in the game. With Reapers, you could always skirt very carefully around them or hide in a very tight space until they lost interest in you and you could sneak away, but with the Warper, it would literally hunt you down, so if you ever saw them, you knew you either had to run away very, very quickly, before it caught on to you, or die. I would shit bricks and do a complete 180 whenever I saw the tell-tale warp portal in the murky distance, in the corner of my eye, or heard their distinctive chitter behind me. The fact that they weren't restricted to a biome made me tense and nervous everywhere I went, and when I realised they were GUARDING the alien bases, I would actively put off exploring them until I felt prepared enough to try and risk getting their attention. Below Zero has NOTHING like this. As long as you kept your seamoth or Seatruck close to you, you could always run back to it and sit there to calm down and try again. Your vehicles are your ultimate safe space, and because it's so vital to the core gameplay experience of, you know, exploring, you eventually never end up actually feeling truly unsafe in your environment in the same way the Warper made you feel. I knew I could explore any biome I wanted with impunity because there wasn't anything that could kill me in one hit while i was in my vehicle, and alien bases actually became boring, just another waypoint to tick off my checklist. Idk, for me, it's just one small stone on a lot of other small stones that make up why this game was a flop for me, but that's the biggest difference that stood out to me playing these two games. Warpers, man, warpers.

[@vladvulcan]

Yeah, those warpers suck. But like with every other creature, you can outmaneuver them. They shoot teleportation orbs, which can be avoided with enough skill.

[@heirofaniu]

The worst creatures for me were the Crabsquids, they're big, fast, agile, can knock your seamoth out temporarily with an EMP, and they're junkyard dog aggressive. I get serious trepidation about even going into their territory and if I do hear one I immediately go dark and stop what I'm doing until I can pinpoint its location.

[@InanimateCheese]

Subnautica isn't supposed to be scary. Also, Below Zero is a mini-release, as it was going to be a subnautica dlc but was too big for that, it's not the sequel. Subnautica 2 is in development currently.

[@Treador55]

Warpers were obnoxious. I know they are placed there by the Precursors to guard the facilities but still they don't fit the world, nor the mechanics of the game. That's how I feel anyways.

[@vladvulcan]

@@Treador55 they weren't meant to. Built by aliens, looking like aliens, they are alien to this world by their nature and it shows.

[@chrisg6654]

When the creator is talking about the killing of a leviathan being unrewarding, I like that. It’s melancholy. My sea moth was destroyed by the aurora leviathan, I escaped. Came back with a stasis and knife and got revenge. And then it was just… over. There was a weird weight to the nothing

[@mille6001]

It is a weird weight but at the same time not being able to harvest them for legit anything does feel just off

[@senuamochee]

@@mille6001 I wanna buy the game and eventually kill one of them, I remember the thrill of seeing markiplier encounter one for the first time, I expected there to at least be a trophy head to bring back lol

[@TerenceJansen.coolkid]

I just searched up if the pda was bulletproof, and one of the little tabs that I got under it was "why did they change the voice of the pda for below zero" the answer was "The voice was too good. They had to change it to match the quality of the rest of the game." I genuinely sat there laughing my ass off for like 5 minutes 😂

[@Martanz1523]

But it's true

[@TerenceJansen.coolkid]

@@Martanz1523 believe me, I know

[@aliceiscalling]

They wanted to make the game more accessible, so they gave the PDA an accent on top of the robo filter. Total victory for all of us with hearing difficulties everywhere!

[@chancenorris561]

I believe the in game reason is that the PDA in the original is Alterra property, and Robin/ the company she worked for had to buy knock off version, which I find funny

[@acoolcat.]

​@chancenorris561 but then there is also a pda entry that says that xenoworks employees should turn in their old pdas for new alterra ones which just makes it pointless, but it is kinda funny still

[@trouty7947]

speaking of the horror vs terror, nothing consistently made me jump as much as the sound of bastard fish banging into the seamoth when you've in the black void of the ocean at night

[@CasualGamr]

Hahaha yeah man that actually makes me jump more than anything 😄

[@KnightNinja-ih4sk]

Bro I almost cried when I first heard that

[@miffedcuttlefish6139]

And the cyclops. 😅

[@EndertheDragon0922]

Same! Had to take a break from the game when I was so nervous that little fish hitting against my ship made me flinch.

[@BadAtGamesDanii]

Dear Valued Alterra Employee, impacts with spadefish in your Alterra Seamoth will permanently impact your record and the increased insurance premiums will be taken from your end of year bonus, Kindest Regards, Alterra HQ

[@Psionic_Dragon]

Personally, I could get over the poor story and somewhat questionable dialogue, but the biggest nail in the coffin for me was the map size - The claustrophobia was just no where near as impactful as those wide-open, can't-see-the-bottom moments in the original that triggered my thalassophobia so much. Being able to see the bottom at almost all times seriously decreased my enjoyment of the game because it just completely put me at ease, which was further compounded by the creatures being far too common and far too aggressive, causing me to - as you mentioned - treat them like an annoying obstacle, instead of a frightening threat. Really, if the map was far deeper, open, and more sparse, I think it would have done a huge favor for the game. There wouldn't even really need to be anything in the newly created space; just spread out the current landmarks (and creatures) significantly, and I wouldn't feel the need to go back to the original game to get my Ocean-survival fix.

[@CasualGamr]

Yeah, you know I swear I wrote about that sepcifically in an earlier draft of the script, must have chopped it out at some point by mistake haha. But for absolute sure, any time you looked down and it was just green darkness beneath you, especially when floating above biomes where you were fairly sure something dangerous is patrolling beneath you, and you just don't want to dive down and find out 😂

[@julianlaresch6266]

The map was very different. Instead of wide and empty it was deep and twisting in a way that you felt like you might not find your way back out of a cave. But I never felt like I was about to get jumped.

[@nt78stonewobble]

I tend to agree with you. Below zero did have some good improvements in some areas and I think it's an amazing looking game, so it's not all bad... it just doesn't scratch that itch you mention.

[@A_cracker14]

That weird like green blood root zone in below zero annoyed tf outta me because it was trying to be scary and claustrophobic but I just was annoyed and lost

[@orhandalegend]

Because Below zero is a more verticle and compact map, hey traded off a big open map to a more cave-ey map and i like it.

[@RyanShaw-lb4ie]

Someone send this video to Unknown Worlds! I totally agree. BZ lacked the immense sense of isolation and vulnerability from being alone on a completely unknown and hostile world. Character anonymity featured in the first game contributed greatly to this feeling and having a voiced protagonist in SNBZ, with a back story who willingly chose to go to 4546B rather than being stranded there greatly took away from this feeling. Having AL-an along also detracted from the feeling of isolation. Additionally, the more linear story of BZ no longer felt like I was discovering age-old events at my own pace as I gained the courage and tech to venture deeper into the depths, detracting from the sense of freedom and exploration (and vulnerability) of the original.

[@CasualGamr]

I hear you brother 🙏 I just hope Unknown Worlds recognise how many big fans of the original feel this way and try to rescue the isolation vibe in the third game somehow.

[@andrewweltlich9065]

@@CasualGamr I think the key word is FEEL. The original game made you feel things, whereas Below Zero didn't.

[@arioamin]

Not unusual when most of the experience is not novel when you have played Original game beforehand. This is also the same reason why many people who played BZ first like BZ more, it was a completely novel experience@@andrewweltlich9065 For me for example I played BZ first, then after literally 5+ playthroughs of BZ I bought Subnautica (1). Still have only played the original less than 5 hours, while I have literally 300+ hours in BZ (spread over steam and my Nintendo switch)

[@Nuvizzle]

@@CasualGamr Co-op is a confirmed feature of the next Subnautica so don't get your hopes up about them understanding the importance of the isolation vibe.

[@vladvulcan]

@@CasualGamr for that, they need to introduce a whole different planet. You can't expect the same loneliness and isolation you had when first exploring new territories... from a place that is already known for large resource deposits and has been studied/mined for years now.

[@AzraelsPurge]

Marvel has been a disaster for the writing industry

[@indmur]

Marvel has been a disaster for every industry lmao

[@eightcoins4401]

This sort of annoying writing already was popular before modern marvel movies. Borderlands 2 instantly comes to mind.

[@925263]

@@eightcoins4401 Borderlands 2 was nothing like Marvel.

[@Xeqtor]

​@@eightcoins4401I hope you meant to say Borderlands 3

[@zackakai5173]

@@Xeqtor more like Borderlands period. The writing has ALWAYS been obnoxiously quippy.

[@DragonxFlutter]

You can _really_ tell that Below Zero was DLC that grew beyond its expected scope. The success of the first game: played into the castaway survival trope, leaned into the fear that the ocean can bring without any overt horror themes, introduced an intriguing mystery to discuss with other players, and had an overall message that the natural world is just as valuable as manufactured science. Below Zero’s response: generic Marvel Comics protagonist in a haphazardly rewritten story of “muh evil corporation” that foolishly decided to reveal what the living Architects look like, and didn’t refine any of the land segments to match the magical polish of the aquatic segments.

[@MadsterV]

Having a fear of the depths like many people, I decided to play Subnautica exclusively in VR. I reached the reaper. I haven't been able to play in months. I resemble poultry.

[@vladvulcan]

LMAO

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Well, this pretty much happened to me when playing 'The Forest' in VR and entering the first cave. It was... not pleasant and to this day I am a bit proud that no pants needed changing afterwards.

[@andrewkuebler4335]

I played through the whole game like normal soon after full version release once. Just recently got a VR headset and am playing through it again. HOLY GOD the reaper was terrifying. In the normal 2d version I eventually got comfortable enough to seek out reapers for fun to stun them with the stasis rifle and see how many knife thrusts it took to kill one. Willingly sought out the ghost levitations. But it is SO different in VR. The scale looks real and accurate, and when one came for me for the first time at the head of the Aurora, I nearly threw the headset off. There is no peripheral vison in VR showing you in a comfy room, no small screen to encapsulate the monster. The sound is on your ears, and your entire vision is just this enormous creature of teeth coming at you. It's difficult to describe how much bigger it looks in VR. Like seeing a scary dog, and then turning around and seeing a building falling on you. I was actually scared for once. I have avoided any more since. One got close to me a couple days ago, luckily it didn't see me, but the instant reaction I had to seeing it's form suddenly come out of the deep ocean and the sound, instinctively made my toes curl. I knew how to handle these guys, but in VR it's like my body was tricked into thinking it was a real monster and was reacting on its own. Truly like playing a different game. I don't know how I'm gonna handle the sea dragon or the ghost leviathan.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@andrewkuebler4335 That's a fun story, thanks for sharing! And yes, VR still might have its flaws and rough edges, but when it works, it can be so amazing. The Forest compensated for that 'Oh god, I'm gonna soil my pants!' moment when I watched a bird at my base and he decided to sit on my finger. That was amazing. And I let my niece play Subnautica in VR from time to time, but I set the game to free building and immortality and take care she does not run into a leviathan. She _has_ seen one in 2D and decided that she does not want to do that in VR. :D

[@MrHams623]

Wait how to you get subnautica in vr?

[@MicroChibiAxel]

I remember the absolute DREAD I felt watching people play the original Early Access version of Below Zero as new content was slowly pumped out, and seeing the Chelicerate my first thought was "I'm so scared of that thing, it barely makes any noise and I'll have no idea it's coming until it eats me." Fast forward to today, the ONLY time that thing has scared me even remotely close to a Reaper was when I was leaving a Vent Garden and it managed to sneak its way around as I tried to reorient myself to get back to my seatruck and quickly nabbed me up for a bite. Any other time I literally just drive on by them with a wave and a "Hi Chelly! Don't come too close or I'll have to smack ya!" And the Shadow Leviathans were SO disappointing. I LOVE the Crystal Caves because they look so nice to me, but it's just so cramped and same-y that it's just. Infuriating. Add in the Leviathans that LITERALLY patrol on invisible rails? Disappointing. I honestly one time just wanted to go into there with an invincibility mode on with a ton of pathfinder tools and just. Attempt to put discs that followed their exact rail so I knew where they'd be so I could avoid them. My only anxiety was from them just patrolling the same area. It wasn't even terror for me, it was just "Alright, when are they gonna wrap back around on their invisible rails?"

[@krisztiankohut3241]

Their AI is way too dumb, just lure them to a narrow space, then whack them for 5 minutes straight(5000 hp)! Repeat 3 times then no more shadow-annoyers

[@MicroChibiAxel]

@@krisztiankohut3241 as much as that would ease my issues, especially with wanting to make a base, they also (unfortunately) make for nifty ambiance and I feel like taking them away would just make the space that much more blah

[@ICountFrom0]

I was into it at the start. I saw so many things that were amazing and just felt good. Then like you, I saw the best parts stripped away again and again. These days, I think of it as a slightly more optimized engine for the game, and not much more. Take all the equipment from both, fiddle with the world a little, and you've got something really good though.

[@MicroChibiAxel]

@@ICountFrom0 I fully agree with you! Like, if I wanna fiddle around with making a base and making it nice and personalized with a bit of grind, I'll boot up Below Zero and play the story again (minus Al-An's body. We're never separating. You make the Sea Monkeys play nice). But if I want the experience of the game, I go with Subnautica. Like, If I could do all of the base stuff (like decor, and blueprints such as enameled glass) from Below Zero in OG Subnautica, I'd probably never boot up Below Zero ever again. Because I love the locations and the creatures and everything from the original more than BZ. But I sometimes miss my Sea Monkeys or domesticated Squid sharks and glow whales along with juke box and such. And that's the only thing that occasionally brings me back to BZ.

[@ICountFrom0]

What we need is a mod that lets us play the old game, in the new engine (unnerf the boost tank though), with every part of everything unlocked somewhere along the way. I'd LOVE to drive the truck through the old world.

[@brisvegan89]

This is by far the best summarisation of why I felt Below Zero absolutely paled in comparison to the original Subnautica, and nothing I’ve seen in developer interviews or game news has convinced me that the devs have learnt from their mistakes for the next Subnautica either. If anything, it seems like they accidentally stumbled onto the oppressing and terrifying lonely atmosphere of 1 and are actively trying to avoid it. Shout out for really highlighting the incredible impact Simon Chylinski had on the originals atmosphere too. Not enough people draw attention to Below Zeros weak soundtrack and generic alien sound design in comparison. Great video

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks so much, I really appreciate the feedback, that's kind and it inspires me to do more! I avoided watching comparison videos (as much as I wanted to haha) as I didn't want to be swayed, but that's good to hear I'm cornering that angle haha 🙏

[@MikeKojoteStone]

Couldn't agree more.

[@Zeriel00]

So much this, I laugh at scary (killing) games, they're dumb but one game Im terrified of is Minecraft. When you're completely alone in the vastness of the world I feel existential dread. So I have to surround myself with chickens and animals xD

[@InanimateCheese]

Below Zero is a mini-release, as it was going to be a subnautica dlc but was too big for that, it's not the sequel. Subnautica 2 is in development currently.

[@cirdan4170]

So true! I had wondered why I liked so much less and had connected some of the points, but this video was a real eye-opener!

[@StotterChannel]

I hated the "No way my sister died from employee negligence" only to find out that it was indeed employee negligence

[@MrRedpanda2442]

no, it was because she was setting off bombs to stop Alterra from using the disease

[@StotterChannel]

@@MrRedpanda2442 yes, hence employee negligence

[@febbledebble]

Adding onto this really good critique of the game, I want to talk about the (specifically female) characters in Below Zero: I absolutely despise the trope of “badass, reckless, impulsive woman” when it comes to media, and I’m saying this AS a woman. I see this trope everywhere and it’s REALLY getting old. I’m so sick of companies thinking “Hm, how can we make a cool, interesting female character? OH, I KNOW- Let’s have her make some incredibly brash and reckless decisions based on impulsivity and give her some witty and hilarious dialogue!” And it RARELY works out. (I’d argue that characters like Toph or Ripley were done very well with this format due to how well they were written, but they’re exceptions.) They did this to Robin, Sam AND Marguerit, aguably 3 of the 4 important characters in Below Zero and failed terribly. They wanted to make them all badass, but in reality Sam came off as an incompetent worker who did the unthinkable and died due to her paranoia of Alterra. Robin made irrational decisions to find out about her sister’s death, is barely even mourning, and eventually doesn’t even hold anyone accountable so it all ends up being worthless, and she’s a xenobiologist and yet has the most cartoonish and dumb conversations with a LITERAL SPEAKING ALIEN in her head. Meanwhile Marguerit acts as if she’s the coolest character when in reality she SHOULD be dead and is only alive because of an insane amount of luck, in addition the writers tried so hard to make her cool, that they quite literally made her survive some impossible things like “riding the corpse of a reaper through the void” which is filled with adult Ghost Leviathans and zombie Chelicerates. And if that wasn’t enough, she was the leader of some kinda war and has an entire country looking after her or something?? This is so over-the-top insane that it just ends up being stupid. Idk, maybe I’m complaining too much, but in my opinion; If you want diversity in your games, do it right and AT LEAST give the three intelligent female characters that you have some different personalities, rationality, and have them actually be human with intentionally written flaws instead of a “cool” and mindless trope with accidental flaws which are overlooked and ignored.

[@abbelsiini]

yeah and it keep it realistic and humane... below zero failed miserably at that

[@eightcoins4401]

It's because - regardless if its a man or woman - "witty dialogue spouting protagonist" is the laziest writing option. Its why so many hollywood movies and aaa games use it. I'm pretty sure how insufferable Riley is is another consequence of the game being rushed.

[@lasercraft32]

If you look at the size of the Chelicerate compared to the character, its MASSIVE. And yeah, when you can see the size difference it _is_ terrifying... But you don't get to feel that sense of size because of the depth of field. It doesn't have that unsettling serpent-like body shape and strangely humanoid face like the Reaper, so it just lacks that aspect of fear the Reaper excelled at.

[@highjinxxed116]

"Strangely humanoid face the reaper has" I've never thought of it that way, that's why it scares me so bad! The Chelly looks a lot like something we could realistically have swimming around here on earth, minus the massive size. But the Reaper... It's unfamilar. It looks like a real animal but at the same time, we have nothing to tie it back to. Wow!

[@ReddwarfIV]

​@highjinxxed116 The Reaper has a malicious grin and a goatee-like chin. It's devil-ish, until it opens its mouth.

[@nicolasguiem7369]

Cheli looks like a shrimp a fish you always eat so that not too scary but a humanoid face… Human brain consider as a rival

[@Killdust99]

Yea that has always been the problem with Subnautica since early access. VR is such a better scale experience

[@INSAne_DrUNkard]

My playtime of both games says a lot about how I felt playing them. Subnautica: 85h Below Zero: 5h I just couldn't get immersed into BZ, because whenever I was starting to get into it, my thought-process was interrupted by Robin's monologues. I finished my session and was in no hurry to get back to it, as opposed to the OG, where I found myself zoning out at work thinking about how I should expand my habitat, what I needed for it and where I should explore next. And chewing off the ears of my cousin and co-worker, going on-and-on about it. Hope I can move myself to give it another shot some day, as I really like the arctic climate setting... On another note: I don't mind a voiced narrative if the story is interesting. The story they had in the early-access version at least sounded more intriguing (from what I heard about it). It feels as though the devs decided to backpedal away from the story-focused aspect of the game, towards a more classic experience but yet again stopped half-way from there, leaving behind a half-baked mess of a story, stuck somewhere in-between "too much story for a survival-focused game like the OG" and "too few story elements to have a decent narrative-driven experience".

[@CasualGamr]

Yeah I think a loss of immersion is at the heart of the issue. Narratives are cool, they just have to be integrated with care when messing with a proven formula. I've actually read similar accounts about the story, it would be awesome to get an interview with one of the team one day and ask them, I bet they have some awesome stories to tell!

[@TroaBarton]

Oh man this prompted me to look at my playtime of the two. Subnautica: 127.3 hours Below zero: 12.7 hours That really does speak volumes.

[@luckypanda512]

387 hours in Subnautica, 11 in Below Zero. I like both games but below Zero is Mediocre sitting at a 5/10 while subnautica is a 10/10 for me.

[@arioamin]

Not unusual when most of the experience is not novel when you have played Original game beforehand. This is also the same reason why many people who played BZ first like BZ more, it was a completely novel experiencea For me for example I played BZ first, then after literally 5+ playthroughs of BZ I bought Subnautica (1). Still have only played the original less than 5 hours, while I have literally 300+ hours in BZ (spread over steam and my Nintendo switch)

[@luckypanda512]

@@arioamin eh, it's unusual to play the sequel first tho

[@Orodreth888]

I have never walked on land on my own legs. I always used the Prawn. Too fast for the worms, too much armor for the little stalkers. That is because I never knew how to get the fur for the suit. Though I'm glad I did not, so the Prawn turned me into a tank on land too.

[@frostreaper1607]

Getting the fur was kinda dumb anyway so you have not missed out, I basically just ran in the cave when the parent animals where away and zoomed trough the whole cave from pup to pup (because the fur was near the pups).

[@carlc.4714]

Meanwhile my suit got destroyed by such a worm... He was fully packed with ion cubes and upgrades. Walking back to my base was hell. 😩

[@EntropicEcho]

I did the same! Never got the recipe for the hovercraft either. There just wasn;t much to do on land and I have zero memories of the worms and their scaryness. Bit of a disappointment.

[@raistlarn]

​@@carlc.4714 ya gotta use the grapples. Grapple jump and the stupid worms will never touch you unless you get stuck.

[@Nuvizzle]

The devs actually disliked that people were skipping the awful frustration of the ice worm area by using the Prawn, so instead of fixing any of the awful frustrating parts of the area they made the worm do vastly more damage to the Prawn in an update. I was already done with the game before that but it's hilarious to me that they decided to make the game worse because people weren't engaging with the extremely unfun way they wanted you to play it. Makes me wonder what happened to the dev team from the original Subnautica, because surely those same people wouldn't make asinine decisions like that.

[@BiasedGrunt]

I still remember my favorite memory from Subnautica. It was the death of my first Cyclops. I remember i was surfaced when i accidentally crossed into the ecological deadzone. I didnt realize how far inhad gone until i was bombarded by all three ghost leviathans. They tore me to shreds, but its still an amazing memory because of "Abandon Ship," my favorite track in the game. Really created that sense of urgency as i accepted my ships fate and ran around retrieving every precious resource i could. Sad day for my cyclops, but an awesome memory that put the game in my top 3 all time games

[@shakyboi]

I played Subnautica back in beta 0.2 or something like that in 2018 and went along with the development which is why I have 325 hours in it. I can find myself itching to play it again, but never once have I said, "I wanna play Below Zero again."

[@teapotsoup2851]

Subnautica immersed me so well I frequently found myself holding my breath while diving underwater, only breathing again when I returned to my seamoth or prawn suit.

[@user-zj9sx6vb6u]

Bro but you had an o2 tank. But that is a fun idea, i should've done it

[@thiagocrazy96]

Your description for the second character we get to play with, already tells it all, when it comes to why it failed so many points for the fan base.

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks, and for sure I agere. I mean I quite liked her character as it happened... I just didn't want to have to play as her haha. All I really want is an empty shell that I can inhabit :)

[@nehen2225]

@@CasualGamr Im surprised you do like her. She seems like the generic marvel "girl boss" character prototype that is always in the need to say something 'smart' or 'funny' regardless of the situation.

[@AparajitaStormhoof]

@@nehen2225 The number of times she told ALAN to "just stop talking" and stop making it all about him was eyerolling.

[@nehen2225]

@@AparajitaStormhoof I swear her voice alone made me want to play on mute sometimes.

[@AparajitaStormhoof]

@@nehen2225 I did ^_^ especially when you consider the soundtrack was meh (some of the music hit hard in the Seatruck tho), her voice lines were some of the highest level cringe MCU dialogue imaginable, and literally every creature in the game constantly screamed at you so there was no ambiance or anything. Pretty sad considering that I nearly had a heart attack from the THUNK of a fish off my Seamoth because the volume was so loud.

[@symmetricat188]

Very good breakdown! I'd like to add another layer. When I first started Subnautica, it pretty quickly became clear that i needed a map. So I took a sheet of checkered paper, a pencil, a triangle ruler & a pair of compassess & started charting. And that became amazingly rewarding, triangulating beacons, scetching out & naming biomes in curved strokes, marking points of interest, placing down an X-to-mark-the-spot. It was glorious. True discovery. A real, intricate, hand-drawn map, complete with "HERE BE DRAGONS". The Z-axis didn't matter, I just had to mark depth when it became an obstacle. When I first stumbled upon an entrance to the Lost River, it immediately became obvious that I needed another layer. Another sheet of paper. Which, voilà, aligned perfectly. Below Zero discouraged me to do this. In cartography, outlining shorelines is pretty much the most tedious & frustrating thing, because shorelines are of fractal nature. Throw in dozens of islands & peninsulae, & the task becomes nigh impossible. Cram in countless caves & an emphasis on vertical map design... well, I may be a nerd, but I'm not crazy. Thus, Below Zero took away a whole level of meta-experience that I'd enjoyed in Subnautica so much.

[@CasualGamr]

Man I loved reading your comment so much. What the hell, you plotted the map by hand, that’s amazing!! It never even occurred to me. On a second run, I tried using the map which is available on Nexus mods. As it happens, it’s one of the best mods I’ve ever used it’s so well designed and incorporated into the PDA with a toggle switch. And that’s the problem, it’s very hard to go back to not having it, which shatters much of the mystique that comes from returning to an area but never being quite sure if there’s a dark corner you missed or a crevice forgot about. Making it by hand represents everything I love about SubNautica - it was more of an immersion simulator than a game in some ways 🤷‍♂️

[@gilgamecha]

​@@CasualGamrI'm playing SN1 for the first time and very tempted to make a paper map. The decision not to have an in game map was very deliberate by the designers and I want to respect that.

[@crow3190]

When I first played I searched up a map of the game online and took a screenshot of it and it was amazing, tried the same for Below Zero and could not get a good map

[@Leafeye7942]

I made countless bases in subnautica, so many memorable little hubs, I didn’t make one in below zero, I made one loooonnngg truck and sorely missed “welcome aboard captain, all systems online”

[@Hakasedess]

Honestly my feelings on the two games can be summed up very easily In Subnautica, I grew fond of managing my base, doing simple chores around my new home, and I played it start to finish in one stretch, only pausing for work, sleep, and food. In Below Zero... I uh, didn't finish it, I don't even know if I got to a third biome.

[@Darkeststate]

Subnautica is the only survival game in existence to make me ask the question when building my escape: “Do I really want to leave though?” That, is proof it’s a great game.

[@Carazyy420]

Fr I got the all the cuddle fish so it was even harder to leave😂

[@kimenders5626]

This was me too. I decided on one of my playthroughs that I wasn't leaving. In my AU, the quarantine guns are never disabled in order to protect the planet from Alterra. If you leave the planet, you're looking at owing them an insane amount of money anyhow.

[@Fion355]

Well, seeing how you are about to be nothing more than a piece of meat for the rest of your life because of debt (Because Alterra said so!), i can see how some might think its easier to just stay there, catch a few fishes and live in realitve peace is the better option.

[@candy-ass4915]

​@@Fion355Oh god hearing that log I understood the exact opposite, I thought *they* would repay us when we gave the stuff back... welp

[@jamesbuchanan4414]

My first complete playthrough, I never finished the escape rocket. I had a solid hab which I only visited to recharge the alien power cores on the Cyclops. The Cyclops was set up with enough resource generation to keep me alive indefinitely, and I could go anywhere I wanted, except the extreme depths. I left that save there, because that felt like a real end. I'd built a life for my character that felt complete.

[@Stuck_Farmer]

Yes, stepping out of my vehicle to repair it in SN 1 was terrifying in that I'd always feel a warper was about to warp me away from its protecting cage even though a warper could warp me from witin a smaller vehicle anyway. This feeling of terror was lacking in BZ. P.S.. The snow stalkers hate flares.

[@CasualGamr]

I think we are in total agreement there. Except about the flares, wtf!! Mind freakin' blown. Literally never used the flares haha.

[@vladvulcan]

@@CasualGamr it's a game changer, haha. Bone sharks in the OG Subnautica also are scared of the flares. Might even work with other creatures, but I haven't tried. Btw, another way to neutralize Snow Stalkers is by throwing them those plum-looking fruits (Preston plant or whatever).

[@heirofaniu]

@@vladvulcan The Bone Sharks aren't scared of flares, they're attracted to them. Throw a flare to get them away from you. God I hate bonesharks so much, they are the worst Subnautica creature for what a pain in the ass they are. Although the scariest creature in the first Subnautica for me are the crabsquids, I dread going into crabsquid territory and immediately find a nook to hide in and go dark the minute I hear one until I can confirm it's location.

[@vladvulcan]

@@heirofaniu the crabsquids are not a big deal. They are also drown to light, and if you turn it off, it's easy to sneak past them. Also, have you forgotten to install the perimeter defense system on your Seamoth? It's easy to zap off any hostile creature that is trying to eat you.

[@heirofaniu]

@vladvulcan I usually don't go for the perimeter defense system, I get more mileage out of the Sonar, storage space, depth module, and efficiency module/solar charger. My MO is avoid, evade, escape, and for any other creature that isn't the Crabsquid or the boneshark that strategy works very well, what makes them annoying is their persistence. The difference is that the bonesharks are obnoxiously persistent, the crabsquid is dangerously persistent. I can typically avoid them but if I fuck up and they see me it's a chase.

[@TheLastBacon]

Really well structured and explained! Great video :)

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks so much, I appreciate the feedback!

[@thebleugamer_1187]

fr

[@jacobmeglich6699]

Bacon the Subnatucia Goat

[@bear3616]

Hello Bacon

[@happyaerer]

The narration for this video is super well written, and the video clips aid the words so smoothly it makes me feel like a genius. Excellent video. Unknown Worlds should take notes for the next game.

[@rustyshackleford234]

Imagine what the shadow leviathan could’ve been if it was placed in a massive, open, and deep ocean. Imagine seeing what you think is just a peaceful jelly ray filter feeding in the inky darkness of the ocean. You write it off as a non-threat. However, you keep on seeing that jelly ray… something isn’t right. Suddenly after you had to fix your seatruck after a random brute shark attack, you start heading back for your seatruck’s entrance, until… You hear an awful screeching sound behind you, and just as you look back, a massive shadow leviathan is swing towards you at incredible speeds, and scooping you up into it’s mouth, which was that “jelly ray” you saw earlier….

[@craftsmanceramics8653]

Turns out when you fire most of your original dev team due to political issues, you can't make a decent game which captures the spirit of the original 🤷

[@CasualGamr]

I was actually only aware of Simon Chylinski being dismissed by Charlie Cleveland personally after a discussion behind closed doors, after he got called up for his controversial tweets. Do you know who else did they let go?

[@lazy_guy_2525]

He really abandoned the ship

[@CasualGamr]

@@lazy_guy_2525 They were lost at sea without him

[@Red_Ninja_5]

Look, respectfully, I cannot agree with half of what you’re saying about both games. I believe the more claustrophobic design is well executed and perfect for the setting. It’s a frozen wasteland, of course the passages both above and below water will be narrow, ice is something that spreads when it’s below freezing temperatures. Also the Cyclops-Seamoth strategy isn’t an efficient way of playing, the Seatruck isn’t being utilized correctly as sort of a convoy. The Prawn Suit is more valuable due to the damage reduction, damage output, and overall utility it offers in comparison to both. It’s also much cheaper to get a Prawn Suit than a Cyclops and I personally only used the Cyclops to transport my Prawn Suit long distances and for the shield generator needed to make the Neptune Rocket. The Seatruck is the same thing in that right, due to both the storage modules and Prawn Suit docking module that let you transport materials efficiently. Personally, I see both games as examples of what to do right then it comes to survival games, like they said horror wasn’t the primary focus of the game and it shouldn’t be judged as a survival horror game. Also I never had issues with how quickly the enemies in Below Zero attacked, even the Shadow Leviathan wasn’t an issue because there was only four and they patrol a set path that has many hiding spots to avoid them with, mainly the purple crystals near the edges and the trenches for the first area, then under the red crystals in the Fabrication Caves. I respect your opinion but I just wanted to state my piece to help inform players and viewers about some tips if they do decide to see this and play the game.

[@CasualGamr]

For sure, I mean with millions of copies sold it is inevitable how many different perspectives there will be. Hell, even approaches to playing the game will vary widely. But ultimately attempted to carefully lay out my points in a constructive manner, trying to consider both sides of the argument. And the facts are, it undersold, it is widely considered subpar by the community based on ratings and forums alike, and it was a somewhat rushed production. My angle is simply a discussion about how the next Subnautica entry can be closer to one template or the other, and my preference by a very long way would be to model itself on the first. I found the land segments painfully boring, the Cyclops action segments where you're attacked by creatures such a shame to lose, and the lack of huge, thalassaphobia-inducing expanses of ocean to be connected to the loss of immersion in Below Zero. I hear everything you say, I read your thoughts twice and respectfully accept them, but if you disagree that I am calling out Below Zero for being the lesser of the two games, then how do you feel about all the land segments? And the loss of a silent protagonist? Do you feel the two games were equally enjoyable?

[@Drave_Jr.]

Correction, there are like two 'scripted jumpscares' in Subnautica. However, they are the two Sea Emperor messages you get after doing a certain thing well delayed after that event, with enough so that you're doing something else and get scared by the sudden blue thing obscuring your vision.

[@NaoyaYami]

For me the PDA's scripted warning when entering Mountains (or was it Dunes) about multiple Leviathans nearby is jump scare'y enough to count. Even if I finished the game previously and killed almost every leviathan spawn multiple times.

[@CasualGamr]

I mean, I can see you got 92 likes already so clearly lots of people agree, but I'd argue that in any game, a moment where entering a specific location triggers violins to screach frantically as a horrifying monster jumps out the shadows and tries to rip your head off like in say Dead Space, or Outlast, is a better definition of a scripted scare. A forced moment of horror. The messages - in my humble opinion - as out of the blue as they are, serve to thicken the atmosphere and feed your terror so that you *expect* another horrifying moment might be around the corner, but they don't actually make you jump out your seat. But that's just the way I see it 😊

[@capybara9921]

@@CasualGamrRIght. The sea emperor messages don't happen in a specific place either. You could be in the middle of the water, at your home base, out exploring, killing something etc and get the message. It's not a scripted event.

[@Drave_Jr.]

@@CasualGamr I consider it scripted because it won't randomly happen on it's own, if you're aware of the jumpscare to begin with, you know it'll happen at x time.

[@Nuvizzle]

@@Drave_Jr. Everything in software is scripted, literally by definition. If you're aware of how it works you know what will happen. If you don't, that's called a bug.

[@vegancardigan]

Meeting the reaper for the first time is one of the best moment in gaming history, not only for me, but for so many people too

[@CasualGamr]

It certainly was for me!!

[@Itz_Raven01]

My scariest moment in OG Subnautica was when I found the life pod at the entrance to the lost river. I quickly went home to prepare to go down into the Lost River. When I returned, it was night, pitch black, with only a life pod marker and sonar leading me. I was around 130M away from the life pod. From what I could see, a hill prevented me from getting there. I drove my seamoth upwards to get around this hill. When I came to the clearing, I repositioned the seamoth to look at the life pod and started my way there. Confused about where the entrance was, I pressed space to get a better sonar scan, and at that moment, my POV suddenly jolted; I heard a bang. Instinctively, I glance at my seamoths health, and it's at 34HP. Clueless about what just happened, I point my crosshair to home and flee, having the most bone-chilling roar echoing in the background. The Abyss made my experience with the ghost Leviathan terrifying. I was 400m down, with a blanket of darkness above me. Below Zero misses this. 400m down in Below zero are all caves. I feel "big" in Below zero because the ratio from you to the environment around you is really close. OG Subnautica has many biomes, with 200m+ from the surface to the ocean floor, creating a ratio of 2m, AKA you, to 200m+ of empty ocean. Emptiness makes a sense of vulnerability.

[@danfish300]

Amazing vid. Very much mirrors exactly what my friends and I have spoken about.

[@patchedbatz]

My biggest issue with below 0 was the shadow leviathan making me have to repair my sea truck every 5 seconds.

[@CasualGamr]

Couldn't agree more, and it was even more of a faff in the PRAWN suit without the defence measures.

[@yournamehere8123]

I feel that. When I got into that cave, the leviathan got stuck maybe twice within 10, so I just decided to kill it with the prawn. That surely wouldn't be a futile effort, because three more are waiting deeper in the cave right? That is also something I liked about the sea dragons. There were only two, but taking one out is a herculean task. But that is barely realisable in below zeros cave system

[@emorsi]

There is a way that any predator will not attack you while in your sea truck. If you hear the predator nearby just hit "e" and somehow the predator does not sense you anymore if you are in the sea truck but NOT behind the wheel and he is drifting away again. Just watch out that you are not leaving your sea truck while hitting the "e" key.

[@orhandalegend]

I bult my base near the fabricator caves entrance, there are no shadows there

[@orhandalegend]

@@emorsiyeah, that also happened in the first game if you closed the engine and got up, the sea truck doesnt have that system so its easier

[@ghosttubegames2266]

I think what was the hearth of subnautica on the first game was, basically, the ambience, when you feel you are not in a alredy known ambient, you feel scared, cautious, you feel the need to be wary of every step (or in this case, swim) you make, afterall, you feel it could be your last. I think one of the greatest proofs of that for me is when you show someone who played subnautica at least once, and show them I don't know, the music that mostly plays on a biome, this person could easily says every aspect of the scene, without even blinking. If you show me a picture of a biome, I remember the soundtrack/ambience music, the creatures, plants, and everything basically. Because every thing in this is memorable, especially if its being put together, So, for me its the ambience that counts, because with a good ambience, you create a (mostly) good experience. In below zero, most of its biomes were... "shallow"... I think on BZ some biomes I can recall everything, but not for the same purpose of subnautica, the exact opposite, because theres not much things to really remember, or in other situations, theres not much of cool of that made the ambience good. Probably for me the best comparison to make is when you go to a completly new local that have "points" of your interest, you go there, you are on a ambient you don't know much, so you are aware of its details, when theres much of what you alredy see (like in a city with not much different roads or neighborhood), you probably don't remember so much, but when is different or unique, you remember almost every detail. I recall this aspects and can compare to subnautica 1.

[@jdogzerosilverblade299]

i agree with the ambience being one of the most important things as well but the biomes i dont agree with. im more on the side of due to it being a fear of water game having no one to talk to ever creates a sort of anxiety. BZ has a lot of talking and straight up other characters to talk to. you dont feel alone in a scary nearly empty ocean which is the main reason subnautica did so well and BZ didnt. your not alone you know your not alone and due to that the ambience doesnt feel all that scary or impactive or intense.

[@frostreaper1607]

The composer/sound designer that worked on Subnautica is an absolute master at his craft, sadly enough he made an inappropriate joke on the twatters and Unknow World leans to the Far Left thus he got shown the door without mercy. New guy did an 'ok job on B-0 but they where not nearly as good as the previous guy, it wasn't memorable or impactful. I hope they now realize they had gold in their hands and flushed it down the toilet by kicking him out over a f-ing joke.

[@skorpion7132]

The best comparison to illustrate this with is: The first time you find your way to the bloodvine area where the ambient music blend to a heart-pulsing beat that immediately fills you with dread and the eerie feeling of something bad about to happen {Sub1}, versus the whatever its called field-with-many-vents-of-purple-gas because the area is littered with vents spewing purple gas {BZ}.

[@skorpion7132]

@@frostreaper1607 same thing applies to the writing (although the writer probably saw it coming and quit)

[@InanimateCheese]

Below Zero is a mini-release, as it was going to be a subnautica dlc but was too big for that, it's not the sequel. Subnautica 2 is in development currently.

[@danandtab7463]

The anecdote about the reaper is about my experience, even though I already knew it existed because of Twitch. When I first played I went to the back of the ship and that thing came at me, game over. It was still very startling even though I knew it existed already. I think the Reaper wins the horror contest because it has a face that looks vaguely human.

[@tyler558806]

Despite the title, this video captures EXACTLY what made Subnautica so popular. Well done!

[@brettpeckinpaugh]

The isolation and how deep you go was a huge part of it. And the fact of figuring out what happened and what is going on with the planet. Below Zero, I never felt the need to build a second base. Where in Subnautica we NEED to build one in the valley as a beach head so to speak to make it deeper.

[@BedHead802]

One thing I will add, the alien structures that served as beacons, and even AL-AN's ship, they both gave off "unofficial" vibes, I don't know why. Just felt wrong? Especially the one with the yellow boxes, fauna examiner or whatever.

[@CasualGamr]

For sure, I mean they just didn't seem organically in your path, so you never felt excited by finding them. You just followed the map marker, saw it, heard a fairly irrelevant dialogue update from Alan and left. Seems more like a cheap mod than a structured narrative, but then I'm biased on this one 😊

[@BedHead802]

@@CasualGamr definitely! I like the game overall not for its own qualities but because it is a Subnautica game, and while I hope that the next one can recapture the feeling of the first one, part of me wonders if that’s even possible? Maybe there will only ever be one Subnautica 😔

[@doctorgrubious7725]

It's cause they're just IN the environment, you are directed to them directly, when you find them they aren't even clearly artificially put into the world by aliens, they are dropped in by the devs, compare that to the first game where even when you had a random ion cube in a cave, there was structures around it, like it was a research spot, it had a shield keeping out water, there was supports, lights, and a platform, Here there is a random ass generator in a cave made from ice with a dead alien in it that NO ONE FOUND, a whole ass dead alien body thousands of years old, (something we didn't see in the first), and no one decided 'the fuck is this arm?'

[@beariion]

I was going to write out a long comment about how I feel about subnautica and below zero but honestly, you covered most of it. I do have two points that you covered on but I feel like took away from below zero for me the most. 1. You were absolutely right about the caves being too narrow. At some points, I remember having to ditch my vehicle because it was less effort than trying to squeeze it through some of the gaps. It also made the leviathans seem small as well. If I remember correctly, the leviathans are actually much smaller than the ones from subnautica. I remember encountering the leviathan in the crystal caves. I remember thinking that it looked smaller but maybe it was just me. Then it attacked me... over and over and over again as I tried mining for resources. Not only was this creature smaller and therefore less scary, but the constant attacks lowered my fear and turned it into annoyance. Like you said as well, the low visibility was a HUGE reason the reapers were scary in the first game. Hearing the roar for the first time and having no idea where they were. Finding the leviathan in the crystal caves and being able to see it from across the other side of the cave sucked out the mystery and wonder that I enjoy when it comes to discovering new creatures. 2. Progressing the story in below zero felt like a chore. In subnautica, you were able to make the seamoth, a few upgrades and you could rock with that until you needed the prawn suit. It was hours and hours of gameplay with just the seamoth alone. When it was time to go on land in below zero, having to make an entirely different suit and vehicle was so tedious. The islands in subnatuica worked because there wasn't much to explore there. You could be there for one in game day and that was that. In below zero, you're forced to spend such a good chunk of the game on land that it felt so annoying. You mentioned the weird controls and I whole heartedly agree. I do NOT like the land controls, but I also think there shouldn't have been that much important story on land in the first place. Subnautica was so well liked because it was finally an underwater survival game that didn't suck. Why take the water out of the game? If I wanted to play a land survival game with chunky mechanics, I'd play Ark. Both of those being said, I did not finish the story for below zero. I got as far as to get the first body part for Alan and decided it wasn't worth my time. I actually didn't know where the body parts were at all and I looked them up. It's hard to describe the pit that formed in my stomach when I saw they were in more small caves. Trying to finish the story felt like more of a chore than something I had fun doing. I also want to mention the small details in subnautica that really made me love it. There were two parts in the game where I audibly gasped (other than my scream when first attacked by a reaper). The first was when the Aurora blows up. There were a few warnings from the PDA before it happened but I was really blown away how well done it was. The second was when the alien building shot down the landing space craft. That one shook me so much, I stood there for another two minutes trying to figure out what just happened. It's moments like those that make subnautica memorable.

[@thedarkurge420]

“i was going to write out a long comment” and still did lmao

[@Treityn.]

If before was supposed to be a long comment… this is short? And… just how long would the other one be….

[@thisguyhd6591]

Below Zero had a different story in the first beta. you were not Sam. you had no dialog. But! you started out by waking up in a bed then go do some research to then find yourself in a storm, and you have to get back. then your path get's blocked off and you need to find a new way back to your base but you get stranded in the ocean next to you and now you have to survive. they then updated the story and made it bad. so right from the start in in the beta it was good.

[@Varrxion]

I played the day it was released on steam and yup it was actually pretty good.

[@SarahFearnley958]

Exploration and the mystery of the first game is what had me so obsessed. I couldn’t wait to do more exploring. I played BZ when it first came out and I couldn’t even remember what it was about until I saw this video. I do remember thinking BZ felt more like a dlc than a second game.

[@TheVenomation]

The idea of an arctic subnautica is so great, just a shame it was so poorly executed. Subnautica 2 is on the horizon, I hope it learnt from the mistakes of BZ

[@Punkpsychobilly]

Most likely they haven’t. Their website is full of DEI bs and includes their ESG scores and all the other important agendas to the big investors. If anything, they’re gonna double down on the Diversity agenda and make a turd if a game that’s good for nothing more than a laugh. The company is a woke disaster.

[@MrRedpanda2442]

@@Punkpsychobilly i just looked at their website and they had one small section talking about diversity and it was more about how they have teams working in other countries not that they are dei hiring so i have no idea what you are talking about

[@The300Player]

​@@Punkpsychobilly go back asmongolds channel

[@ahmada.s.o_9987]

I hope the subnautica team is taking notes for the new game

[@RyanShaw-lb4ie]

How do we get them to watch this- like actually.

[@CasualGamr]

Haha I do sometimes wonder whether the devs dip into the realms of youtube, most of the time I suspect not 😂

[@Tenderofyggdrasil]

Theyve already taken notes​@@RyanShaw-lb4ie

[@tripwire3992]

@@CasualGamrthey did for jacksepticeye so i reckon they do watch YT

[@CasualGamr]

Haha first I just need another 30.3 million subscribers - maybe I’ll just give it some time 🙏😄

[@goldwasp7222]

One of the biggest hits for me was the sound design. I can’t remember a single sound any of the creatures made in below zero. They are so generic. Whereas in the first game I can distinctly imagine the sounds of reapers, ghost levitations, sea dragons, warpers, crab squids, reef backs, and so much more. The reaper scream/roar still gives me chills. It sounds so angry and its incredibly loud. Hearing that iconic roar in the distance skyrockets my heart rate every time. Nothing like that to be heard in below zero.

[@brehh1337]

They kicked the original sound producer, unfortunately he was saying a lot of racist stuff on his twitter so they had to. I think it took at least 70% of the games ambience when they changed producers

[@goldwasp7222]

@@brehh1337 hopefully they try someone new for the sound design in the next game. I actually really like the music the new producer made, but we need someone that can make more unique sounds.

[@sugunikibo885]

@@brehh1337 3 months late. I checked old articles for his quotes and there was nothing racist said.

[@brehh1337]

@@sugunikibo885 there was. He twitted a bunch of white supremacist stuff,talking about blacks as inferiors and talking about 3rd world countries

[@sugunikibo885]

@@brehh1337 The articles I saw never mentioned anything about white supremacy or third world. I only saw them mention the diversity slider. If you saw something like that, send a link (i just didn't see anything like that).

[@PhailRaptor]

There was an announcement recently about Subnautica 2 (that seems to be their official internal title, suggesting they might see Below Zero as a spinoff rather than main series), and let it slip that it will take place on a different ocean planet. The Last Bacon did a video on it. Roadmap was hinted at for late this year (2024) with high hopes for Early Access in early 2025.

[@wyqtor]

Where did they say that it was a different planet?

[@PhailRaptor]

@@wyqtor I think it was in the leak, now that I think about it, but interviews have been occurring that also confirmed that yes, it is on a different planet. I don't have any links to it.

[@kyrios1120]

Like Spiderman and Miles Morales. Tbh I want the new game to be set on the same planet cuz I still want more of the void and above everything I want a new huge Leviathan like the Gargantuan leviathan or the Frozen Leviathan they need to give us a leviathan like that tbh not something frozen or dead but alive

[@ArtificialDjDAGX]

thank fuck if that's the case. There's so many things wrong with BZ.

[@Panda-ii5tr]

only 5000 subs is insane, i thought this was a massive channel! great vid

[@CasualGamr]

Ah thanks, that’s really kind. Hopefully one day it will be! For now, one sub at a time 😊 appreciate the positive words 🙏

[@duross101]

Buddy, I watched 2:24 seconds of the video and went to steam to buy this. You're amazing at introductions and have earned my respect and attention

[@mylo445]

you’re one of the first people i’ve heard fully well articulate what made the first subnautica so good. great job!

[@fyxation]

I started playing BZ back when early access first dropped. Maybe I shouldn't have, because I found myself invested in where that first story was going. When it was scrapped completely, I was a little disappointed. It could have had such a powerful twist involving Sam or Alterra. But I continued, anyway. The new story, by release, was lackluster because it lays everything out for you but doesn't make much sense. Why isn't Alterra still down there? Yes, the Ice Worms caused them issues, but one woman seemed to traverse the area just fine with minimal tools. Yes, MM and Sam sabotaged the place, but not enough to discourage the megacorp from coming back in with firepower on top of researchers. That's not the game they wanted to create--an Avatar-like savior vs. the company. The game winds up having two resolutions, one for Robin's mission and one for ALAN, and neither felt like they were that urgent to finish nor were they satisfying when I did. IMO ALAN's revival should have been the focus, and it should have been more dire. Like, we gotta go because Alterra's on their way. We gotta go because MM found out about ALAN and his history and she's after us. We gotta go because the entire area where the virus was being extracted is unstable. Something. My biggest beef with BZ, other than the narrative, is how easy it is for a Subnautica veteran. Survival was never a worry. There was only one moment when leviathans were a threat, and that was only because I didn't have the defense system yet. Even in the area with the most Shadow leviathans, shocking them let you get away practically unscathed. Oxygen vs. the cave systems was a bigger problem. The Ice Worm was just annoying. Not dangerous. Not lethal. Annoying. I stopped bothering with the Snow Fox after one venture through its territory. The Prawn suit was slower on land but 10x less obnoxious than driving the SF and getting bonked off of it. All that said, I don't hate BZ. I've played through it to completion twice, and I'll probably do it again. I just wish there were more to it than what we got.

[@CasualGamr]

I would love to be able to say that I got stuck in with the early access as I am a big fan. But the biggest part of enjoying Subnautica was going in utterly blind, so I did it again for Below Zero and I don't regret that. Still, this is the first I've heard of the alternate storyline, and it does sound like they dumbed down the space sci fi element for something a bit more wholesome with an edge. And I just don't think it really worked out. Would have loved some more Altera backstory too but it was all just lacking. And I couldn't agree more about the Snowfox, I only used it to get through the worms, the rest of the time I just ran around... swearing as I did it haha

[@fyxation]

@@CasualGamr In the first story, Sam is alive and communicating with Robin from the space station (which you can still see in the game). They were also both very British lol. The whole thing with ALAN still happens, but Robin hides this information from Sam. ALAN is even a little hostile (which is where those lines in one of the juke box tracks come from in which he sounds very... malicious). You're tasked with using the rocket at Delta (exactly where the communication array is now) to send samples of the enzyme to the space station, which directs you out to the lily pad area. There, you get to see grown sea emperors just living life and being enormous sweethearts. I wish they'd left at least one there in the full release. ALAN still talks to Robin from time to time and they start developing a rapport. If I remember right, discovering the giant frozen leviathan led to some lines speculating what Alterra was trying to do with Kharaa--and Sam was a little shaken by the implications. The story didn't get much further than that before it was scrapped.

[@athenafaeth]

it's soooo sad the plot changed. it was so interesting and unique having Sam be alive and have someone talking to you compared to original Subnautica. ugh so disappointing. plus I loved the original voice actors. everything about the early access was so promising and then it just.... deflated.

[@DynamiteRaven]

@@CasualGamr As someone who VASTLY preferred the original version: - In the original version of the game that space station you see at the beginning now was in the sky all the time, it was Delta and was where the still-alive team was but they were stuck up there because of the meteor shower. - At the start of the game Robin was on ground duty alone and cut off from the others with the weather and after a short walk around sequence an avalanche destroyed your habitat. You were trapped at a frozen pool when a structure collapsed into it and cracked it while you watched and you had to dive in the hole it created to escape, thus leaving you alone and tool-less. (A sequenced I LOVED and mourn deeply) The habitat is still in the game (last I checked) but no longer has a purpose. - The team at the station were sending down supply drops, as it was the best they could do. These drops were spawned in the sky and you could watch them fall and be there when they hit, including the initial pod whose location was randomized like in the first game. These were used to get you in new zones, as they were said to contain beacons and were added as waypoints as soon as they spawned. They used to have parachute icons and these cool silver boom-box looking models that are no longer in the game to the best of my knowledge. I believe most were converted to just "abandoned Alterra supplies" locations. - Delta functioned as a landmark like the Aurora in the first game. Many a time I surfaced and spun the camera around "Where are you guys?" I found it useful for getting my bearings and there was just something reassuring about knowing the team was still safe up there. The game really doesn't feel the same without it. Presumably it was removed because of the added weather system and required changes to the skybox. (I am pretty darn sure it's not there in the new skybox at all, just the opening scene, but it has been a while since I played. At the very least it doesn't have the presence it did.) - Oh, and the on-land segment was MUCH larger initially, believe or not. I spent hours marking my path with those LED light sticks and I don't think I ever covered it all. Sadly, they condensed it into the worst parts. There used to be places that *required* snowfox jumps to clear gaps, so there was a reason you couldn't just PRAWN-stomp around ignoring both the cold weather suit and the snowfox, like you can now. - I have never completed the release version, despite having 179 hours in it, because I get about 3/4th in and just blah. The original version, which didn't even HAVE an ending, I played for 150+ hours and loved every minute. Basically, when they changed the intro to something so bland (by sci-fi standards) and removed the station, making the team past tense and removing the conversations between sisters, I lost most of my interest in the game. It's crowded, annoying, and the sound effects are jarring in the wrong way. It feels less like surviving at sea and more like surviving a shopping trip to Walmart on a holiday.

[@Akefia]

@@fyxationin addition to that, as far as I remember someone was about to betray you shortly before they changed the story. I think it was supposed to be Jeremiah and you nearly even met him in one moment, but he saw you coming over the camera monitors and went away, avoiding you. They could have done so much more with the story... Jeremiah stealing the virus for Alterra, bringing it to the station, it breaking out, ready to kill everyone on it...and in the end probably mutating and leading to the events in Natural Selection. You trying to stop that while secretly working with your sister, sending her the enzyme sample so Alterra doesn't notice you are working against them...which was highly dangerous. Yet you aren't telling her about Alan...but probably would have needed his help to succeed in saving your sister...or at least other lives. For now, because we all know what Alterra would do to get their hands on that virus to use it as a weapon... I was so infested in the old story that it was the biggest disappointment for me when they changed it to such a boring one.

[@Beauty_Of_Mesozoic]

In my opinion man I couldn't have said it any better. And as for Co-Op I would like it in the game but it would be best as an optional feature not forced. Many should listen to this guy because he had me immersed in to his point and rant thereof

[@CasualGamr]

Haha my mates would crack up if they saw this - it’s a good day indeed if my rants can capture the attention of anyone, especially for 45 mins 😄 thanks for taking the time, I actually really enjoyed that comment 🙏

[@r4zoruss321]

It was confirmed that the coop will be optional

[@danytalksmusic]

This is truly the best review of the two games, balancing the improvements against the shortcomings of BZ. You really found so many small details that created such a large impact overall... I didn't even notice the slow swim speed until you mentioned it in this review, but now I understand why exploration felt so much slower. I think the slowness of the sea truck compared to the sea moth further perpetuates this feeling.

[@STRIDER_503]

Can we all appreciate how well those scenes blend together starting from 29:50 ? Great edit and this might be the best narration I've heard on KZbin. But to me, Below Zero feels more like "Subnautica: The Prototype" than a sequel to the OG Subnautica; if I were to suggest how next game should feel like... well, just let our muted guy explore another water world overly exploited by Alterra.

[@StarShadowPrimal]

I preferred the first game to the second as well (having played it all the way through a number of times compared to 1.5 times with Below Zero due to never caring to go back into the land section), and I really see a few large reasons. 1) The sense of pioneering discovery. Subnautica really felt like being the first person to survive rediscovery of a long lost civilization, while Below Zero felt a bit less notable in that you were effectively just making another discovery while following up on the first. 2) The perceived chance of rescue. The number of very recent human facilities that already exist where you are going in Below Zero (except for the very last bit of caves) makes it feel like Alterra could return at any time. In Subnautica, the Sunbeam arriving felt miraculous, and losing it felt like being set back years. 3) The goal and stakes. In Subnautica, you were trying to survive and escape against ever increasing and unknown odds up to the point of finding a cure for a civilization ending plague. In BZ, while you did try to survive and learn about the plague and the civilization that was lost through ALAN, the overarching goal was to find out what happened to your sister and determine just how evil the evil megacorp really was.

[@Kelkrlo]

Great take. Well done on this, it's the only video I've seen come close to a documentary about Subnautica.

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks! I didn't intend it to end up so big but I guess I had a lot to say haha, but I appreciate you describing that way for sure!

[@FelineFrenzy]

How does a video of this scale NOT have a few million views. This video is very thorough and descriptive, severely underated, you deserve to be more popular with the massive amount of effort I’m sure you put into this

[@andre_santos2181]

As an engineer, I am in shock on BZ you lose more heat on air than water. This really disengaged me from the game. I know some suspension of disbelief is necessary, but this changes physics upside down. BTW: The Tree Spires is the only biome on Below Zero you really has the awe and sensation of openess of the original

[@Anonymous4045]

"Oh no, I'm freezing! Better jump into this water..."

[@zachpaterson8128]

Maybe the water is heated by all the volcanic activity?

[@thisguyisnotable]

i just want to say, this is my first video i've watched from you, and within the first 5 minutes i was subscribed. you make such good points, provide quality content and you're also so entertaining- hope to see more from you soon :) for now, take this sub! (also, i loved the story about your first reaper encounter lol)

[@KrazyKomradeKong]

I still can’t believe that the guys who made natural selection, the half life mod and game, turned out to make this, still throws me off

[@CasualGamr]

It's an amazing journey, isn't it. Show how relevant the modding community has become.

[@TheGlenn8]

@@CasualGamrI mean, Valve literally made their entire gaming empire that dominates the PC gaming landscape from modded games.

[@alexi5273]

Subnautica didn’t feel like a story game but more of an actual survival game. While below zero was more of an actual story game showing you waypoints and giving you hints on where to go next. The ending for below zero didn’t feel rewarding at all compared to the first game where you realize you can actually escape the planet and it even gives a choice whether you want to stay or not.

[@yureiNekoX]

im terrified of the ocean, and the first game did wonders for that. even watching and playing the game through its development, even knowing exactly what i was going to see, the game was scary and i loved that. the second game? the scariest part for me was the lilypad zone. not because of the atmosphere or the creatures. i just hated the textures of the plants and the thoughts of actually being there. this video puts into words what i have been struggling to explain. the second game just doesn't add up to the first, and it doesnt help that when it reached full release it was so buggy i couldn't even finish it. my save file bugged, and i would've had to restart my entire file just to see the ending. it wasn't worth it. i never finished the game.

[@CasualGamr]

You didn't miss much with the ending. Honestly, I would just jump on KZbin and watch a playthrough, there are a couple out there for sure. The final segment has got some of the best music in the game, a fun kind of five minute interactive animation, and then a pretty outlandish flex as you cast your eyes upon something that I don't think they ever should have been included in the game myself. But for the sake of completion,in case it is relevant in the next title, I would absolutely watch it. Not playing it is a blessing in disguise, the final segment of Below Zero is so lame.

[@cewla3348]

@@CasualGamr (SPOILS) honestly, i really hate how they just went "pfft of course you follow the alien what else are you gonna do", like they were trying to oneup the main game's "you free her and she plays with her children, then she dies." with something like "you free him *and save him* *and follow him* to his homeland"

[@GirlsLeadToMistakes]

I stumbled across this video and I have to say it's really well done and all the major points are covered amazingly, I really enjoyed it! You just gained a new subscriber, keep up the good work and I'm eager to check out more of your videos. About the topic, I think the lack of terror and openness is number 1 in why the OG felt totally different. When I was exploring the wrecks in BZ is the only time it felt similar to the OG: the openness, the emptiness, the voices of the people who had lived there, it's a proper throwback to how it felt to explore the Aurora. Also, I do have to say your video made me realise how important sound is! It's probably number 2 as to why the OG felt more immersive and how it made the player feel alienated and afraid of their own shadow haha! Someone else mentioned it too, the sound of fish slamming against your seamoth in open water is one of the most terrifying sounds you could hear!

[@nowcow6128]

Native VR Support would be awesome. Having to actually swim away from leviathans with my arms sounds both terrifying and awesome.

[@namfoodlethegreat]

This is such a great video. I hope I'm not commenting too late for you to see this. My buddy told me about Subnautica and even bought it for me, but wouldn't tell me a single thing about it. I almost quit a couple times in the first 10 hours or so, because I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing. There really isn't much direction, which of course is now one of my favourite things about the game. Then I discovered the Jellyshroom caves, and thought to myself, this has to be where I'm supposed to go. I had nothing more than a seaglide at the time. So I spent the next 25 hours collecting titanium to build hundreds, if not thousands of oxygen pipes to get myself down into the jellyshroom caves. I explored the entirety of the jellyshroom caves with the basic oxygen tank, a seaglide and my oxygen pipes. So many times it was a mad dash back to the pipe to get air. I'd get turned around and panic, or get hit by the big snake things in there. It was so exhilarating. I don't think I've ever had more fun and felt more immersion in a game. Of course when I told my buddy this he just laughed and laughed. I did eventually realize that basically you just want to keep going deeper, and oxygen pipes were not a sustainable way of doing that. I'll always remember my time in the jellyshroom caves as an awesome time of exploration and terror. God I love this game.

[@A42AI]

I can't believe how fundamentally they misunderstood the success of their first game. It would be different if they simply said "we're pivoting focus", but it would be disingenuous considering they clearly tried to mimic the first game by having scary elements at all. Ironically they tried to lean in harder to what they thought those elements were and ended up creating antagonists instead of natural predators. I couldn't stand that it constantly forced control away from you to show you an annoying cutscenes of a leviathan or shark biting or killing you. They patched out the shark animation after a while, but left in all the others. And because you're constantly forced into their paths like you mentioned, you see it a lot. So the frequent encounters are just maddening. It's actually scarier in the first game where you don't necessarily die on contact and even if you get hit, you can still try to run. The only cutscene you get is when the reaper grabs your seamoth from what I remember, but it's because you have a chance to get away and it creates tension while the hull strength diminishes the longer you're in it's grasp. A note on the music, it's not bad in itself, but I feel like the composer wasn't experienced in creating tracks for such an open ended ambient game. That, or the devs didn't direct him properly, or didn't implement his stuff well. I find the tracks extremely repetitive, like I was listening to a playlist of songs instead of ambient music and it got really annoying, especially since they just never stop. I started dreading specific zones because the music is so strictly tied to them and the soundtrack is so...musical. I built my base in the vent garden zone and that track is an example of one with a clear start, middle and end. So it feels like it's looping constantly. I don't know why they didn't at least opt for long moments of ocean ambience before the track starts again. The game improved when I finally turned the music volume to 0.

[@FinnishArsonist]

yeah it does feel like a direction/implementation issue - Prunty is a fantastic composer, and I do think that he would have worked well for subnautica, but the music was implemented pretty poorly. Prunty makes some amazing ambience, and there is even a lot in the soundtrack (I would say like 2/3 of the OST is ambient), but it feels like they didn't use them much in favour of the musical stuff, and didn't give much time in between tracks. pretty much any open, ambient game (Minecraft comes to mind) has some space for the player to be in silence.

[@TheDemonOfSemen]

Subnautica 1, finding a leviathan: "Oh dear, oh fuck, oh no, I'm dead, I'm so fucking dead, this is the end for me" Subnautica 2 Below Average, finding a leviathan: "I'm gonna pay you 4% of my repair tool's charge, to fuck off."

[@capnkraken1514]

I really like how you hammered home the issue of the leviathans being more of a nuisance than a terrifying threat. The only one that filled that role nearly perfectly was the Ice Worm, especially since the first time I met one I was hiding in the caves below the spires for a night and could hear them outside. Then the next day I saw one toss a stalker in the air and devour it, giving me an idea of what I was up against. Still, the thumper and the anti worm upgrade for the snow fox then worked against that terror from the ice worms. I think a lot of the terror from the first game’s leviathans was that there was no concrete strategy to face them other than running (well, swimming anyway) and the clearly unintended stasis rifle/knife or Prawn strategies, both of which require you to salvage parts from Leviathan infested waters anyway. Below Zero straight up tells you what certain modules help combat Leviathans and gives you an edge that removes the adrenaline spike of creeping into THEIR territory. In Subnautica, you are a lone survivor. In Below Zero, you are an adventurer, if not a conqueror.

[@lordwoody6321]

I watched the whole video with enjoyment. The beginning hooked me, the middle kept me around, and the end made me think. Whilst thinking about the subnautica 3 question (honestly didn’t even know it was a possibility), you mentioned you only had 2000 subs. “No way” I thought, though it’s true. You deserve so much more! Subbed and can’t wait to see what else you cook up! Fantastic work!

[@pasanaator9874]

The lack of speech from the player is something that allows the player to think for themselves. Half-Life did really well with this, with the only thing you know about yourself, is that your a theoretical phisycist at black mesa.

[@stylesheetra9411]

When the only thing below zero is the rating

[@ArcaneArts17]

13:24 you popped up over the water and I legit gasped and tensed up lol. screaming "get out get out" in my head

[@kushpatel5573]

yo what-? bro for this quality of video I was lowkey expecting atleast 20-200k subscribers lmao. Like you deserve wayyy more

[@DavidTMSN]

Strong and independent. Stunning and brave. Even in the first game they made the female officer snarky and at odds with the Captain, risking their lives needlessly because she knows best.

[@fireironthesecond2909]

Where was that?

[@BriariusTitan]

Amazing video man, very good watch on my break.

[@CasualGamr]

Making breaks better makes life better, happy to oblige my friend 😊

[@MusicaX79]

THANK YOU! Talking to the community about these issues is like talking to seagulls.

[@vladvulcan]

Whom are videos like this addressed to, if not the community?

[@dabdoube92]

Haha. Wait.. Hey I'm not a seagull !

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

Why do we still get protagonists like this despite them being universally hated by everyone? Was Atomic Hearts and Forespoken not enough of a nail in the coffin? People hate loud, cocky protagonists who don’t shut up

[@CCuppy29]

Robin really doesn’t talk that much, and she’s definitely not cocky. She honestly might be more interesting if she was. The issue with Robin and Sam is that they don’t really have any actual character traits.

[@vladvulcan]

Hey, Atomic Heart protagonist was a tough ass, I liked him. "Crispy critters!" in Russian sounds like "F*cking pies!" which was even more hilarious.

[@Duckbusinessman]

I would normally agree, but atomic hearts protagonist was really fun

[@rclaws3230]

​@@DuckbusinessmanI can't stand him. He's such a dweeb. There should be a law against giving the protags of first-person games more than five lines of dialog throughout the game. (Joke)

[@Duckbusinessman]

@@rclaws3230 no i agree, i prefer voiceless characters or characters with little speaking, like master chief. but that doesnt take away my point how i still actually really enjoyed atomic heart

[@coopzr]

Wow, this video production and commentary was insanely well done. Top quality

[@DarkMetroid777]

*see's the burn in on your screen from the Subnautica HUD* 200+ hours! Impressive like no other. I had around 80 hours and thought that was impressive. You got a solid sub from me. After playing the 2nd one I've been tempted to do a replay to the OG Subnautica. Such a gem of a game.

[@kingmarlexia]

I was one of the early access testers and I can say 100% where the game failed (for me anyways) was how devoid of life the game felt in regards to story, let me explain. My experience in the first game was one of excitement and terror, wanting to learn all I could, find out the story but terrified to go deeper and deeper, and while the first games story isn't fed to you, you DO have to look for PDA's, read scanner results and so on, it was nonetheless there so that by the time the credits rolled you felt complete and happy. The second game by comparison was saturated with story which on the surface SOUNDS good, until you know the truth behind it. Early in the games access there was a tie to the first game in which the baby leviathans you released in the first game would show up in the deep waters and you could obtain the enzyme from them to deal with the khara on the surface instead of them just handing it to you as they do in the live version. It was cute seeing them more grown up, it felt like a full circle moment but it was pulled when a new director (I believe) who didn't like the story and gutted it, rewriting the ENTIRE story to focus more on the protagonist and her "woman power", their words, not mine. The first rendition of the story had Robin more coy and sheepish, certainly more quiet as she explored around and interacted with people and cared more feeling the depth of both your actions, but your sisters and everyone else too, hell her sister was ALIVE in the first rendition of the story, talking to you from a relay station. All of that went out the window and that's why now she's so overly chatty and quippy, they wanted her to be front and center, but by doing that they missed the whole point of making the world the focus and they had done before. I have generally written off below zero because it feels hollow and yet bloated at the same time, so often companies feel the need to reinvent the wheel and its not always needed PS. I STRONGLY suggest you look at the cut content page on the wiki, you'll get a better how about what I'm talking about and how much they GUTTED this game. Everything you said was on the money though so great video :)

[@CasualGamr]

That is such a fantastic and rich comment with some very helpful tips and insight - thank you so much for that. I will definately be taking a look at at that and I personally really appreciate you taking the time to type all that out 🙏

[@ph1shstyx]

I feel the only time that the original Subnautica gives you a forced story item is when the ship is coming to rescue you and that event happens. The first time you play you're there, excited to see someone else and boom. But, this gives you the push to explore that base, which gives you the information on the other bases and where you are pushed to explore. In BZ, there's literally a map that shows you where each base it.... Sure, you have to explore the are to find them, but the original just gives you a depth and goes, figure out how to get there.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

I loved that first interaction with Al-An in like first early access build. Robin was kinda silly like that but also meeting Al-An she acts like someone who studies aliens and tries to communicate while Al-An is more defensive as he should be. Idk why they kept the xeno-biologist thing but then that doesn't really come into play at all in her personality or story

[@control4230]

II completed Below Zero last week. I didn't get the Prawn Suit, I didn't add a single module to my sea truck, I didn't build an expansive base. All the milestones I had in Subnautica were missing here.

[@Smllyp25]

Like there was any good spots (or room) to build a base besides spawn or the big icebergs anyway

[@vladvulcan]

You missed a lot

[@deaj8450]

Both Subnautica and Below Zero's horror in a way reminds me of a first person open world shooter series called Stalker. The first time you encounter a controller, bloodsucker, burer, chimera, pseudogiant, poltergeist, snork, etc. it is terrifying. Some are rare enough encounters in important places you have to visit to progress the story and remain relatively rare throughout. These enemies like the bloodsucker or controller especially use different tactics from the other creatures in the game that can throw you off and make you scared despite having a fully automatic weapon, night vision, and grenades. You always move cautiously into every new area because a bloodsucker can literally stalk you through the map and set up unscripted ambushes, all while being able to turn 99% invisible. They'll wait for you to turn your back, look in your inventory pack, loot a body, or even wait for you to take damage from the environment before moving for the kill. They will coordinate attack with other bloodsuckers if they are around. That is the subnautica style of horror, the actual fear when the attack happens is nothing compared to the suspense and dread beforehand. But then there are enemies like the snorks. They are fairly dangerous and scary, but you deal with them so often they just become a chore when you encounter them. They set up ambushes but aren't subtle about it. You see their hyper selves jumping around in a field likely before they ever reach you. Or they are put in tight caves where their ambushes work but then their long leaping lunge attack isn't as effective. Certain enemies you become desensitized to, or they are incongruent with the moment in time of the gameplay or story, or they're in the wrong location. I'll play subnautica 3 if they focus more on the variety in wildlife and biomes, but even then I worry that their vision of the IP is different than the audience that ended up loving the games. I think the atmosphere and dread of the first game was almost entirely unintended.

[@4tdaz]

Actually the opposite. Thrill of the unknown was the intentional, pervasive metric through which every design choice was made. Everything was evaluated by that yard stick. You can listen to Charlie Clevland talk about it online. But yeah, I did not have the same sense at all in Below Zero. I am completely with you that they had better make sure subnautica 2 (3) is back to the focused design of the first game. What do you think about multiplayer? I want it badly but I've heard people say it will kill immersion which I can understand

[@deaj8450]

@@4tdaz I literally don't care either way as long as the rest of the game does not suffer for it. I don't play any multi-player games. Though if other people want to play subnautica multi-player I'm also not against it, I don't think it would ruin the game. I just don't have any online friends nor friends that play video games, so multi-player is a non factor to me.

[@4tdaz]

@@deaj8450 makes sense.

[@rclaws3230]

​@@4tdazLittle bit of a necro-reply but the only reason companies include co-op these days is to force peer-pressure purchases and follow-the-leader sales numbers.

[@4tdaz]

@@rclaws3230 Cynical take but perhaps not wrong. Some companies aren't money first though. Some are fun first and they know the support will come.

[@Spectrum_29]

This might be the most perfect description of both games I could have asked for

[@lotus1739dozer]

This popping up in my recommended the day subnautica 2 teaser came out is a sign

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

Great work, subbed immediately. Keep on going with that thorough investigation and journalism about (any) topics :)

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks, bud! The sub and words of wisdom are both thoroughly appreciated!

[@Nemacynex]

I rarely comment on youtube videos, but I have to make an exception here. This review was simply amazing. I just played both games after each other's for the first time and all of your points you made about how the second game is being worse I could feel too. If Below Zero was a stand alone game it would be okay, but as a successor of the original Subnautica it just doesn't stand a chance. Thank you for this video, it was nice to see/hear that it wasn't just me who had these points against the second game, let's hope (despite what was shown in the twitter post) the third game will go back to being more like the first game was, instead of trying to continue what the second game gave us!

[@CasualGamr]

Thanks so much! These kinds of comments are genuinely the ones that inspire me to dive back in and make another one. Really appreicate the kind words. And yeah I think there are so many people who just played Below Zero casually and gave it a good rating, so it will be interesting to know how much the devs take on the feedback from the more hardcore fans. You never know though, they might pull something special out the bag!

[@goldwasp7222]

The devs have confirmed the next subnautica game will be optionally coop with the single player experience still in mind.

[@rclaws3230]

Because co-op forces peer-pressure purchases. Just look at ass games like BG3 and Palworld.

[@goldwasp7222]

@@rclaws3230 I don’t really see this as a bad thing. More beneficial to us that we get to play with friends than it is for them.

[@russianmen-vb3hx]

As the days go by below zero slowly starts getting less and less relavant since most of its QOL features are being ported to subnautica along with extra base building options, kinda lowering below zero's own achievements in the process.

[@DrJohnTParce]

Your “Reaper” moment happened to me in the Jelly Shroom cave. I had done a little research, so I knew about Reapers, but I had no idea crabsnakes existed. I decided to go down into that cave at midnight with all the lights off. Yeah.

[@aishfan1]

The only reason I even wanted to play Below Zero was for more of the alien content, but once I bought the game myself I stopped playing when I knew most of my upcoming tasks would be taking place on land. I was disappointed so many people wanted co-op, part of the reason I got lost in the original was because I was alone. I want more biomes, creatures and stuff like the seamoth and Cyclops. The few stills they released for the game seem promising, so...fingers crossed.

[@arioamin]

You haven't played this game it seems from your post*, most of the game does in fact not take place above water, but they did put much more time into making the land areas for adding some exploration to some story beats and just make land better and less* boring compared to the first game In order of likelihood* you'll spend time there: Much of the time you will be either in 1. Underwater cave systems 2. Ocean floor 3. Land (which much of the time is connected to sprawling underwater cave systems) 4. Open ocean *Edit: Fixed typos

[@DynamiteRaven]

@@arioamin Dude said "most of *my upcoming tasks* would be taking place on land." not most of the game.

[@beertlont776]

​@@DynamiteRaven kinda funny right? That guy typed all that showing he is capable of writing something. If only he could read.

[@arioamin]

That message I replied to, regarding 'most of my upcoming tasks', implied that the game does take place mostly on land when it doesn't. My reply is still valid@@DynamiteRaven

[@lougutierrez5332]

co-op has been said to be completely optional, no one is forcing coop onto you

[@wolf-zinstinct3655]

At least the next game is being labeled as Subnautica 2 instead of the 3rd. Further establishing BZ as a small spin off sequel while the next game will give us a better subnautica experience worthy of a sequel.

[@wolf-zinstinct3655]

Also based on recent news. co-op will be optional not a mandatory aspect of subnautica 2. It will remain a single player experience initially.

[@Zakading]

@@wolf-zinstinct3655 I just really hope that whatever kind of co-op they do add keeps the game a scary survival game tbh. Exploring the oceans together is without a doubt a ton of fun, but not if it ruins the terror of everything around you.

[@sparkie8992]

man this video is super well made, very nice!. I think what made Subnautica so great for me, is the exploration. Im the type of guy to explore every bit of every biome before moving to the next, and the original just had more then below zero. Nonetheless both are great games, there is just a clear better one. But that really apllies to any game series.

[@CasualGamr]

That pretty much sums up my entire video haha, I completely agree with everything you said.

[@theZuberik]

I recently told someone that I liked the first one better but I couldn't explain why, now I can explain why! Thank you!

[@CasualGamr]

Haha no worries, that's what drove me to make the video in the first place 😄

[@KnightNinja-ih4sk]

Anybody else notice he hit 5k after making this when his goal was 2k, congrats!