Why Can't America Have a Grown-Up Healthcare Conversation?

[@vlogbrothers]

Hello! For those who are unaware, there is a scavenger hunt ongoing. What is it? No one knows. Where does it lead? No one knows. Each week, there is a clue that unlocks a new board at itsatuatara.freeforums.net/. The clues are hard, and sometimes it will be easier to solve them if you work together in Tuataria: tuataria.com/join YOUR CLUE THIS WEEK IS: 112 104 105 108 105 112 112 105 110 101 032 103 101 111 103 114 097 112 104 105 099 032 114 101 099 117 114 115 105 111 110 -John

[@flamestar395]

vlogbrothers wut...what is this numerical conundrum? (Might've used that word wrong...)

[@Dreamfounder]

Happy Cluesday!

[@hugomrh12]

Give me a clue and i will buy your book

[@nowionlywantatriumph]

Joshua Bernardino You're ascing the right question.

[@Chomuggaacapri]

Ok so I'm thinking it's element numbers. I'll be right back.

[@nerdknowledge2056]

From someone who knows the doctor's side of it, it seems like doctors are spending more time with insurance paper work than with actual patients. This seems like a major problem to me.

[@OneEyeShadow]

That's a very interesting point, actually.

[@theholyhay1555]

Flo and it’s very true, been a year into my medical job life and it’s horrible how long we actually spend on insurance papers

[@kingkong8890]

@@OneEyeShadow interestingly I think Andrew Yang talked about it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ_XqpyJmrSagtE

[@prestonrasmussen4083]

On top of that, Doctors often have to order less definitive tests that are covered by the patient’s health insurance as to not put the patient in debt. This can often lead to multiple tests being needed, and a delay in diagnosis, which can be dangerous.

[@SandfordSmythe]

Accountability

[@redbeard3574]

A lost job can be replaced. A lost life is gone forever.

[@redbeard3574]

@@sonnyankau9239 If a few thousand health insurance paper pushers have to find new careers in order for a million lives to be saved, I can live with that. That might seem callous to someone in the health insurance industry, but most of them have never had to face medical bankruptcy, or death by a treatable condition all while dealing with an obstinate insurance company that doesn't give a damn if they live or die. If you try to tell me finding a new job is more difficult than that, I won't believe you.

[@redbeard3574]

​@@sonnyankau9239 In that case, I sincerely hope you never have to know what it's like to have your life tied to a $5000 per month price tag.

[@jonathanalvarez3875]

Can you stop all this sensationalist nonsense and offer up some possible solutions instead? Thanks

[@loreleihayden454]

That's kind of my view on it as well, honestly. John made an excellent point that the loss of those jobs (and high-paying jobs, at that) won't be painless for those that currently work in the healthcare industry, and I really do acknowledge that, and think that any plan to transition to a Medicare-For-All system should also specifically address the massive job losses for that sector. However, the fact remains that the for-profit healthcare industry is a losing bet, by definition! And we essentially are holding those people's livelihoods as leverage against all the harm that those jobs' functions create. If we had an entire industry in the USA where 40,000 people went to work every day to shovel piles of money into a giant furnace, then it would be a very stupid argument to say "yes, the money-burning industry may cause a lot of harm to the economy, but please think of those poor 40,000 people who make a living as money-shovelers and furnace operators! They'll lose their livelihoods if we stop paying them to burn money!"

[@MyrtleNyx]

Ok so as a disabled British expat living in America this is a very hard hitting topic. The NHS is an amazing service in the UK. Honestly you guys are missing it not having it. Paying into a fund that you may never use, and even when you do use it, it might still leave you thousands in debt is simple not good enough. In the UK I visit my local GP about 5 times a year and a specialist twice a year, with blood work twice a year. Since being in the US my disability has not been addressed at all and the only time I have been into the hospital was to have a child, threw the entire experience my health was ignored and they only focused on the health of my child. To be honest with how I was treated I am glad that they barely managed that. The NHS allowed me regular check ins with all kinds of issues. It also allowed people like my father who never had anything to do with doctors and hospitals to not constantly have to spend out of pocket. Yes our taxes are higher in the UK, however that extra cost is not going to the NHS (a lot of it is education and welfare and so on). Yes our staff are overworked and under payed. NO the NHS is not the winning solution to all your problems in the USA, but it would certainly be a massive step in the right direction. Honestly I am fed up of people saying it is too socialist and won't even consider it when they have never experienced both in the same way I have. You do not understand how important your health is in a country where it costs you a small fortune every time you see a nurse for a once over vs seeing an actual doctor on a regular basis and making sure your health is kept in check as apposed to allowing it to go down hill. I hate the fact that right now I live in a country where I refuse to dial 911 when getting severe chest pains because "what if this puts my family into debt that we can never hope to pay". You should never have to make that choice.

[@monkiram]

I completely agree. I'm Canadian and I just graduated medical school. I did rotations in the UK, Canada and the US so I feel like I have a pretty balanced experience when it comes to this. I would much rather get sick in Canada or the UK over the US (assuming I were a citizen of all). Yes the Canadian and UK healthcare systems are far from perfect, but their hugely eclipsed by the issues with the American system. I don't ever want to be a doctor in the US.

[@zemther]

As a norwegian, who (from the graphs in the video) spends a shitload on healthcare compared to what we spend on other things, .. I'm ok with this. I like the fact that what I pay in taxes for the most part helps other people have a better life, and that it benefits not just me in terms of infrastructure, but so many other areas as well. There might be people whose medicine costs several hundred thousand NOK per dose (that would be tens of thousands of dollars per dose for the US people), but they contribute to society. It's still worth it. Plus, if I get (more) ill than I am right now, I know that I'm covered. I've already reached my limit for healthcare spending for "normal" doctor/shrink"++ visits, which means I don't have to worry about healthcare costs for another ten months. And that in itself is probably worth a lot, purely from the time I spend at my shrink talking to him about problems I really have to deal with, rather than thinking about how I have to find money to pay my rent. Listening to people talk about, and reading about, the american system, makes me very happy with what I have right now.

[@zemther]

Just to make it clear. I have no idea how to make the american system better. I'm a librarian, so I can find stuff everyone else needs. But I don't know this myself, I haven't read the books or articles that is required for it. But it always seems like a cumbersome system when I hear about it from the outside. I might however be very mistaken in this.

[@zemther]

Nah, we do have something like the NHS. There are private hospitals too, but they cost money, and most people just go to the state ones anyway, because even if there is a waiting list for some operations, it's still a pretty good system. At the start of each year, we start out having to pay a tiny bit of fees, but once you reach around 2k NOK (that's around 190 GBP or 235 USD) you get the rest of the year free. This is for all kinds of healthcare too, both doctors visits, hospital visits, shrink, you name it. There's a second limit for things like physiotherapy, at around the same amount of money. I'll probably get that too in a month or so, so then I'm done for the year.

[@karlthomson7194]

Some idiots still don't understand the difference between GOOD public healthcare and SHIT public healthcare, namely OBAMACARE.

[@bellabana]

Karl Thomson Obama wanted to have a much better healthcare system but was blocked at every turn by the Republicans, so you can thank them for that, idiots. In the end it was watered down so much just to get it passed. It was a small step in the right direction & did help 24 million people. Now of course Trump & the Republicans have repealed it all & their own healthcare bill is so bad for the average American they've had to do it in secret because they're giving a $50,000 tax cut to only the richest Americans!

[@LM9600]

Each doctor has a few hours reserved for those who need it right away. Otherwise, it's time for a day or two. Perhaps longer if it is not urgent.

[@PenguinGeri]

Meanwhile in western Australia thousands of cancer patients don't die including me

[@PenguinGeri]

Thanks, gotta love the pollies who pushed that one through. :)

[@SoulControlla99]

Donald Trump even agreed that Australia has a much better health care system.

[@melvinlow888]

So what do you think we can do to improve the Healthcare system in the US?

[@SoulControlla99]

melvinlow888 Stop being "American" and actually listen to other nations. The "America is the greatest country in the world" trope that everyone buys into prevents America from growing as quickly as we could. Admitting when you're wrong is one of the greatest qualities one can have. And one of the most difficult qualities to pick up, especially when you're told over and over again that you have the greatest country in the world in every way. Evolution has told us over millions of years, if you don't change and adapt, you die. That's a lesson worth learning.

[@EdmontonRails]

Meany while in Canada thousands of people die in year long waiting lists for operations and thousands more from doctor screw ups.

[@Riesenente]

I think that the best way to describe the failure in the American health system is to show that Canadians and Europeans weren't able to understand why the Breaking Bad guy didn't get any medical treatment in first place

[@icewolf1770]

Because he would've died on the waiting list. My grandfather died waiting for care in cancada

[@Riesenente]

...yeah, I never heard of someone who had the same experience in Germany. Plus, at least he'd have the right to get health care. Imagine how many people die in the US who wouldn't have to die under EU ou Canadian standarts

[@gequitz]

Walt (The Breaking Bad guy) actually was able to afford healthcare (w/o drug money), but sold meth for egotistical reasons.

[@Sammysapphira]

Vera Eich American health care failing? What are you smoking? American health care is the best in the planet, there's no fucking question, all the statistics and objective measures say do. Canadian health care is TERRIBLE, you need to wait up to 10 hours to even see a fucking doctor in an emergency room unless your life is on the line. Busted arm and in excruciating pain? Too bad, go wait several hours.

[@Riesenente]

USA! USA! USA! USA!

[@am9269]

The ACA literally saved my life. Having a pre existing condition since childhood basically disqualified me for EVERYTHING in life. I couldn’t afford a bone marrow biopsy, PET scan, the overpriced blood work, or the life saving medications I need to take on a daily basis. I’ve even been denied a job that came with medical benefits, after being the highest scoring applicant on the 911 dispatcher exam because of my condition (they asked on the polygraph exam, and forced me to disclose it..although I was more than capable of sitting in a chair at computers, the job was given to someone who scored in the 80% range, so I hope my community takes comfort in knowing that someone who passed at a C level will be handling their emergencies vs the 98% I scored out of 200 applicants). I’ve even been denied Aflac accidental coverage which wasn’t even actual insurance when my current job offered it to employees. 🙄

[@AlRoderick]

"Won't someone please think of the middlemen!"

[@yurik1068]

Yup, last year they made 100 billion dollars. If they weren't making a killing they wouldn't be in this business.

[@Moonspell360]

The middlemen spend millions of dollars buying fucking politicians, ending up in "Medicare for all = socialism" propaganda. It's so fucking disgusting how Americans let politicians decide for them

[@muphynman221]

He's not only talking about the ultra owning those companies, abolishing private insurance puts middle class people like me out of work. I still intend to vote for single payer, but it's not only a blow to the 1%, and John wasn't claiming that it was.

[@BillBelangerOnGoogle]

I especially liked the sign-off: "When we allow ourselves to be pandered to, our elected leaders seem more than happy to oblige us."

[@faithbryant5657]

I just want to say keep in mind that "9%" of people that have no health insurance is probably much higher. This is because I personally (and I'm sure MANY other people) reported that we had health insurance on my taxes because I didnt have to prove it, and I would have to pay a huge fine that I of course couldn't afford because I couldn't afford the monthly premiums either. I am not offered a plan through my work, and adding myself to my husband's insurance was very expensive as well.

[@willfairweather177]

Preserving lives > Preserving health insurance jobs

[@isaactoth187]

Yet the amount of people who would get affordable health insurance would offset those who lost their jobs. You make a good point, but I feel like the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[@Heartless1022]

Declan Newton I'd personally be okay with that. If my taxes going to universal healthcare means a person and their family didn't have to worry about going bankrupt over medical issues on top of everything then good. That becomes one less thing that family needs to worry about while the parent(s) are searching for a new job.

[@armorsmith43]

> would end up in dire poverty Some portion would end up in poverty. The people in high-paying jobs would be on unemployment for a while and the find sales/insurance jobs in other industries. But if we want to lower costs, we have to cut jobs. The only ways to lower spending involve paying people less money.

[@Riokaii]

Universal Basic Income is inevitable and also solves this issue.

[@seanpeery7780]

How many people are dying? Not many, none that single payer would prevent for certain. It's not personal debt vs economic stability and GOOD jobs. You're just trading off who has to live in poverty and the trade off is that both the people already in it plus some go into worse poverty.

[@JIYkp]

"We can't provide medical insurance for everyone because the top earners in our country will make a little less." is a horrible argument.

[@timothyearly7727]

Sooner or later, one of our Democratic Presidential Candidates, will promise to-turn-back-on Obama Care and win the election. Obama Care is still the law of the land. Trump is just not releasing the funds. There should be no tax increases because America will push the cost to future generations. The insurance companies should like this because it does not put the insurance companies out of business like Medicare For All.

[@bluebandit5586]

Why should we have to pay for something you can’t afford? Stealing our money because it’s “the right thing to do” is a horrible argument.

[@garydeforve5055]

Come on now , you need to be an adult.

[@bluebandit5586]

I am an adult, but I will not be a poor adult just to pay for ungrateful people to have heathcare@@garydeforve5055

[@garydeforve5055]

@@bluebandit5586 dude...we pay more for LESS .. LOOK IT UP. The buggy makers are all gone now, too.

[@morganthem]

the answers simple John: we don't have grownups.

[@schwasha000]

david bouy Oh we do, it is just that no one is willing to agree on anything.

[@nihalanand2690]

@Vincent Jones Sorry for late reply, but name-calling further cements his point.

[@RobertWF42]

Well it's a very emotional and personal subject. Everyone has anecdotal stories.

[@beansnrice321]

Boom.

[@jones1351]

Oh, contraire, I think we have plenty of grown ups. But, to paraphrase Chomsky, our media/academia are pretty shitty when it comes to informing rather than manufacturing consent for the status quo. Think Iraq War, for just a small example.

[@travisbewley7084]

Imagine getting rid of slavery and you're the guy talking about how it will cause a recession

[@cornholiothefirst2018]

Slavery is legal in the US

[@ALu-nq8rf]

@@cornholiothefirst2018 more than just the US.

[@jimelton650]

@@cornholiothefirst2018 Look! Someone WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SLAVERY IS LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

[@DarthSocks]

@@jimelton650 No, you are wrong. The 13th Amendment has the word "except" in it (it's the 6th word). Forced labor in US prisons is legal slavery, even according to the Constitution.

[@EliStettner]

But prisons don’t get to sell your children

[@jasonlock8107]

I'm Canadian. I went to school in Virginia and I was shocked to see TV commercials for hospitals. In Canada, I'm really just interested in whatever one is closest. A poli-sci student at my university (who was American) really wanted to have a debate about healthcare with my Canadian self. He was so passionately against single-payer. That night I got a knock on my dorm room at 3:00am (I was an RA). It was the poli-sci student. He had severe chest pains and wanted to go to the hospital. I took him and after about 3 hours in the ER with some very basics tests he found out it was pain caused from anxiety and stress and we could leave. We were about to go, but before we left I got another shock: they handed him a bill. I would have walked in and walked out in Canada just just showing my government issue card without any worry. But, he didn't have health insurance and he looked at me and said, "I don't know how I can afford this." At that moment ... I realized I won the argument. But I wasn't happy about it.

[@Dyimnasta]

I have not yet finished the video, but I love the topic. The inability to have a conversation is astounding to me.

[@isaactoth187]

Maybe it's because Labour (as well as Lib Dems, Greens, event the Tories) like the single payer system in the abstract, but have disagreements about how to get the best healthcare for the most people. Even UKIP doesn't want to privatize the NHS.

[@maximeteppe7627]

Anthony: on the other hand, lots of americans seem to stick to free market more as a dogma than as a rational principle.

[@sofiachildress4659]

Hi! I'm 15 and I really love reading the news and debating with my friends but it is always difficult to draw conclusions about what I read every day and sort of "put the puzzle pieces together". These videos are incredibly helpful and allow young people like me to discuss politics in a knowledgeable manner. THANK YOU!!!

[@Persnikity-yv3nh]

*reads the title* "That would require grown-ups in government."

[@GoogleGebruiker]

Trump is a stable genius

[@matthewatwood1060]

& in the population.

[@matthewatwood1060]

@bopp9 So the kids they dance & shake their bones...

[@kindle139]

Why can’t America have a grownup conversation about, well, anything?

[@Necronpharia]

THIS! It's like whenever they have a discussion about anything it's on the level of a 5th grader

[@Daniel-yy3ty]

grownup means balanced, balanced means it has no place in a black and white system... get rid of first past the post and the mentality that follows it and maybe you can see all those nice shades of grey

[@squidlytv]

Our media has divided us, why? Commercials. The system that has granted us historical wealth has shown its dark side. The system that freed us from the shackles of serfdom have made us slaves to capitial. The irony of it all is like a work of fiction.

[@tylr3669]

If universal healthcare is so great why do you need a law to make it? Kind of like, if you have "free trade", why do you need an agreement? If red states collect most of the payments from blue state federal subsidies, why do they keep voting red? Truly mysterious...

[@Daniel-yy3ty]

@@tylr3669 because it's good for the consumer, not the producer. if the consumer has 2 choices, pay whatever or die, they'll pay whatever. a country on the other hand can say "sup dogs, i need 1000000000 of this, who's gonna work for me and who's basically out of the market?"

[@hollylovejoy5073]

Thank you John for that first minute and half of what might be the clearest and simplest explanation of US health care i've heard. I really needed that.

[@emmaflaherty7372]

I really love these issue videos. Thanks for breaking down complicated topics and providing lots of sources!

[@vlogbrothers]

Thanks for watching, Emma! -John

[@brianflaherty9054]

Emma Flaherty I like your last name

[@rafetizer]

And fortunately they invite all of the previously unknown internet experts to weigh in with their top-notch insights in a reasonable manner. (myself included, sometimes)

[@PissShiversss]

It's not complicated and you're using an openly biased source to make yourself seem current on events. What a shame

[@PissShiversss]

Emma Flaherty and you have terrible posture stemming from low self esteem.

[@TechShowdown]

Very fair video, I really appreciate that you try to play it straight down the middle

[@theMosen]

I don't. It's called neutrality bias: trying to be "fair and neutral" when the facts bear out that one side is clearly and objectively right. E.g. he made some very dubious points about "hundreds of thousands" of jobs being lost, about recession and doctors/nurses losing pay. Many developed countries have made the transition from a private market based system to single payer, none of that ever happened on any large scale. A transition to single payer would leave a lot more loose cash in a lot of pockets, it would net help the economy. The idea that getting rid of the parasite health insurance industry is going to hurt is pure fear mongering propaganda.

[@bobrolander4344]

Neutrality itself is a bias. It is the *philosophy of **_relativism._* It is the natural precursor to Trumpland in which no truth or facts exist. Nothing matters. Postmodern philosophy of anything-goes, whatever random average rules the day; whatever randomly catches the most attention online; whoever randomly get's his 5 minute fix of stardom. This is exactly how CNN and MSNBC _created_ the monster that is Trump. The truth is not "somewhere in the middle". Yes, it may be complex. Yes, it may be context dependent. But it is nevertheless real and tangible. The truth that John is desperately avoiding is, that he got lucky in the American game of massive Wealth and Education inequality. That all those Clinton era neo-liberal promises, were in fact lies. The same lies of Reagonomics. That both sides are now spouting pro *Milton Friedmann propaganda.* That his own whole well being depends for a large part on pure ideology. And that must really hurt for someone who truely believes in facts, science and education.

[@adtastic1533]

moismyname You don't know what you are talking about. I worked in a hospital in the UK and got paid half what I do in America for the same job. What he's saying is an indisputable fact.

[@atpnguyen1442]

Remember Healthcare is the top human right of mankind - We American people are human - Tell Un-American lawmakers, on this earth, there have been about 110 Universal healthcare nations - UHN - providing its citizens with different healthcare coverage’s policies. There have been some light coverage policies in many UHN’s. Because of what, because all of those UHN’s are poorer than America (No 1 economy of the World). We wondered how their (honest & patriotic) leaders could work that way. Do not forget one thing; American people are human like those people in 110 Universal healthcare nations in the world …

[@libtardzsuk1177]

moismyname You’re wrong. Doctors in countries with universal healthcare make significantly less money than American doctors. Universal healthcare in America would require doctor’s wages to shrink unless taxpayers agree to cough up much more of their income. When doctor’s wages decrease, demand for that career will decrease. It’s already a tough career choice to make because they must go through 4-5 years of college and then 4 years of med school which puts them in ridiculous amounts of debt. Decreasing their wages would be devastating. Not to mention that millions of people would lose their jobs and over 100 million people would be forced out of their private health insurance regardless of whether they like it or not.

[@ari1234a]

You ask "Why Can't America Have a Grown-Up Healthcare Conversation?" Because Americans do not know how insurance works.

[@ufoundbethany]

More dangerously, they know very little about how insurance work, which thanks to the Dunning-Kruger effect, means that they think they know a lot more than they do.

[@hangukhiphop]

@@ufoundbethany They should just change the name to "America effect"

[@The_king567]

Wrong most Americans have insurance read a book

[@The_king567]

@@ufoundbethanylies most Americans have insurance read a book

[@ufoundbethany]

​@@The_king567We agree on two points- 1) Most Americans do have insurance and 2)books are awesome. Currently reading various passages from the Annals of America; highly recommend. Yes, most Americans do have insurance. But my friend, that's the problem. Neither paying for insurance or receiving insurance as a benefit educates you on everything about insurance. Most people don't even know everything about the policy they own, let alone the intricacies of the entire system and its interplay with medicine, law, politics, economy, social -statification, global markets, scientific research... and more. Like I said, they know a very little, so they think they are experts. Dunning-Kruger effect.

[@user-my7lt7nl5p]

Having worked briefly in the US healthcare technology sector, my anecdotal impression is that expenses are in part a cultural problem of complacency. There was a complete lack of urgency and passion in the work we did, even though it was affecting the lives of millions. It's not that salaries weren't high enough or facilities not fancy enough, believe me they're the best you can find, it's that no one with more than a shred of passion and talent stays around to watch their abilities go to waste under clueless upper management who get rich no matter what.

[@hardivpatel5203]

Currently we have concepts of a grown-up conversation about healthcare

[@gabrielladean2617]

You are one of the few people to maturely talk about any political topic. I'm sick of all the arguing. Thanks. 👌🏼

[@cailynrossiter5569]

Talking about expenses and the fact that if you need medicine to live, you will inevitably buy it no matter the cost, I have asthma and need to take medication for it. My sister has severe allergies and needs an epipen. Both of our medications are incredibly expensive, even with insurance (and we happen to be fortunate enough to have parents with well paying jobs and great insurance) I know that I will intentionally miss doses of my medication so it lasts longer, which therefore makes my overall health worse. I'm not saying places like the U.K. are perfect but they do seem to have great health care.

[@SirRichard94]

Cailyn Rossiter my mom has respiratory problems and allergies, yet she can get the medication for "free", also some more expensive medication when her problems get more sever and all she does have to suffer a 1hr line in the hospital but it is worth having the safety you can get your medication. Mexico might not be a first world country, yet having health care for everyone is a relief im thankful for. I've been injured several times (thanks to stupid accidents involving being a teenager) and never feared not being able to be treated or lack medicine.

[@coffeeaddict9605]

I like the way we have it here in Canada. Hospital and doctor visits are covered, as well are the things that go inside hospitals. You won't pay for your surgery but you will pay for your bed. We do have to pay for the dentist, medication, eyecare, but that's what our medical insurance companies help us cover.

[@ProcrastPerfection]

Well said, John. This has been one of the most moderate videos I the channel in recent memory yet it still invites progression rather than acceptance. The focus on Aaron Carol felt strange, but I totally get the push because Healthcare Triage is a wonderful Nerdfightaria project.

[@maxximumb]

Take money and lobbyists out of politics and you could solve so many problems. When business can dictate policy people get screwed over to protect the bottom line.

[@ExPwner]

Take politicians out of our money and it'll be even easier.

[@rjfaber1991]

Yes, indeed. As an outsider looking at US politics, it often saddens me to think how easy a lot of the biggest problems facing the US would be if the political system in that country wasn't so susceptible to lobbying and to career politicians serving their own interests first and foremost... If only the US had a parliamentary system with Proportional Representation voting, this whole healthcare debacle would have been sorted out ages ago.

[@maxximumb]

I'm rather disappointed that a few replies had been marked as spam and I'm unable to restore them. A conversation needs to reflect both sides of an argument. Whilst people might not agree with the viewpoints removed, at least one of the comments made a point about pharmaceutical companies abilities to use the current healthcare system to inflate prices to extract as much money from the insurance companies as possible before their patents expire. Whilst I understand that medical research isn't cheap and companies need to recoup their expenses, they are guilty of extorting money from sick people. For example Johnson and Johnson made a 22% profit on their $70 billion revenue in 2016. That's 15.4 billion dollars. Gilead Sciences made a 55.5% profit on $32.6 billion, which is $18 billion. I appreciate the capitalist market works and companies need to make a profit. With a centralised healthcare system and no lobbyists to buy politicians, the healthcare system has stronger leverage over pricing of medicines (put very simply. I know it's a lot more complicated) The current US healthcare system leaves millions of people untreated or in massive debt, whilst others get rich on the profits of their suffering. I've always thought you can judge how good a society is, by the way they treat their most vulnerable members.

[@The_king567]

Good

[@chrisgosselin92]

I came here to snarkily answer the rhetorical question, left very, very impressed with the very fair, nearly-biasless delivery of the message. +1

[@kimk1395]

Loved this vlog, John! So refreshing to hear someone discuss multiple sides of the healthcare conversation, rather than just opting for one and completely undermining the others.

[@ILoveGrilledCheese]

The first thing Americans need to do is humble themselves and ask Europe for advice on how to properly implement healthcare. We would be more than happy to guide you.

[@The_king567]

Nah we don’t like or respect you for a reason

[@martyyu]

Is healthcare a public good, like police or fire departments, or public schools? Or is it a daily expense, like a car or Netflix? Is it something that betters society, or enhances an individual's day-to-day life? Every member of Congress should answer this question publicly before they debate any kind of policy.

[@ExPwner]

None of those things are public goods. All of those things are excludable. Also there is no metric by which one can claim that a public system betters society because it is done through coercion. Any time that a transaction isn't voluntary, one cannot claim that it makes society better off. On the contrary, it always makes society worse off.

[@martyyu]

It depends on your definition of what a public good is; it's not codified to include nonexcludability. I'm talking about services that benefit the whole of society, e.g., military, police, education, fire prevention, roads, etc. In either case, public goods are only funded via taxation - what some might call coercion. I would argue that they make society better off. Is there a nation in recent history that doesn't "coerce" its population to fund these services that you would hold as a model for the U.S.?

[@ExPwner]

Yes, the economic definition of a public good is something that is non-rivalrous and non-excludable. That's literally in the definition. Look it up. Having those things under the umbrella of government as opposed to provided on the market does *not* benefit the whole of society. Value is subjective. It is something that individuals determine for themselves. No man can tell another that he benefits from something without first knowing that person's values. No, these services need not be funded through taxation. All of them can and should be offered on the open market. You could make the argument that the service itself makes people better off, but you can't make that claim about the system of coercion itself. There are no nation-wide models, but there are successful business models for each of these things. Private security, private education, private fire insurance, private roads, etc. Note that I'm talking about private ownership arising through exchange rather than the cronyist system of a government monopoly being handed over to political buddies.

[@martyyu]

I wasn't using the economic definition of public goods. Which is why I said, "public goods," and not, "the economic definition of public goods." But the greater point is that supposed successful business models for, "private security, private education, private fire insurance, private roads, etc." do not translate to democratic nations. Or at least you could not come up with any examples. Businesses are interested in making profits whereas governments are supposed to focus on upholding their constitutions and serving their citizens. Meanwhile, there are several countries where single payer works extremely well: healthcare costs are much less than ours while outcomes are higher. Also, overall satisfaction is much higher. Corruption happens anytime large amounts of money are exchanged. I don't think that's relevant to this argument. Please let me know when you have actual historic data to prove your case. I'd find it very interesting.

[@ExPwner]

anything. Otherwise I could just as validly ask if wiping my ass should be a public good. "But the greater point is that supposed successful business models for, "private security, private education, private fire insurance, private roads, etc." do not translate to democratic nations. Or at least you could not come up with any examples." Yes, I can come up with examples. The US has private security in various places. It has great private education. It had a successful model of private fire insurance. It has a decent amount of private roads. Now obviously these aren't full-scale since governments typically crowd out these private alternatives, but they do exist. "Businesses are interested in making profits whereas governments are supposed to focus on upholding their constitutions and serving their citizens." Everyone looks out for their own interests, including government officials. Giving one group of people a monopoly so arbitrarily doesn't improve the quality of goods and services. "Meanwhile, there are several countries where single payer works extremely well: healthcare costs are much less than ours while outcomes are higher. Also, overall satisfaction is much higher." I agree that these single-payer systems are cheaper than what the US currently has. This is why I advocate instead for a market-based system, since healthcare in the US was cheaper before the state got involved in the healthcare market. And where we see practices posting prices for all to see, this creates competition and drives down the prices more so than public counterparts do. "Corruption happens anytime large amounts of money are exchanged. I don't think that's relevant to this argument." I think you misunderstand. I wanted to clarify the difference between having a private business marketplace (what I'm advocating) as opposed to "privatization" that politicians do by handing over a monopoly to their friends. "Please let me know when you have actual historic data to prove your case. I'd find it very interesting." I think this was addressed above. We do have examples of private versions of these goods and services. Most of them still exist today.

[@woodbros1845]

I love how smart you guys are in the topics you discuss. Coming from a couple of guys that make videos with no knowledge what so ever, on any topic we talk about, I envy you! I love the videos!

[@jamesbeihl5795]

Healthcare isn't complicated in other developed nations. I think that's where the conversation needs to start

[@ThatsRight1776]

Healthcare isn't "complicated in other developed nations"? Well if you want to start on a false-premise, you're going to have a very misguided conversation.

[@Iron-Jupiter]

Healthcare is anything but not complicated.

[@koukkoufos2000]

@@ThatsRight1776 Well the fact that your don’t accept universal healthcare proves you’re fucking ignorant

[@DudeWhoSaysDeez]

I have better healthcare debates with my friends than our politicians do

[@DudeWhoSaysDeez]

(at least in America) america is so far behind other nations

[@chadtindale2095]

What a great video. I'm a moderate and I frequently see people on the left and right promising the magic of their solutions. But acknowledging that there are no painless solutions, is the first step to understanding what you're really asking. Frequently people are sold on the title of a bill, from the "Clear Skies" act which doesn't clear the skies, to the "Fair Pay" act, which does not grant fair pay. The "my side" politics prevent us frequently from looking at what we're asking and saying that there's drawbacks even if it's the right answer. Tradeoffs are inevitable, and if you're a fan of something with no tradeoffs, odds are, you didn't look closely enough at the people who lose in the exchange.

[@Twelvecarpileup]

An odd thing I've noticed over the years as I've traveled. It's very odd talking to American's about healthcare and many American's are very confused talking to non American's about healthcare. As a Canadian, I simply couldn't imagine living under an American system... while we do have private insurance through most workplaces when you're a full-time employee it covers what is considered luxuries (optical, dental). This can also be covered under to a degree by your province. But the idea of falling off my deck, going to the hospital then getting a bill at the end seems truly insane. However when talking to many American's they are either so used to this or seem to buy into the idea of American exceptionalism, that I've had several American's actually get angry at the idea of healthcare being covered almost entirely by your taxes or that the American system is unquestionably "the best in the world". I also hear a lot on American TV about the Canadian system. Either that it's horrible and people die on waitlists (they don't) or that it's the greatest thing ever (there's are large flaws). I personally think that the US might be stuck in their current system. With the rise of "us vs them" and the 24 hour news cycle that can tell you what you want to hear over and over again that it's not possible to move to a system like the rest of the world simply because of people's perceptions. Canada's switch was in the 70's, before all of this. And while Canada isn't quite as "us vs them" as the US is now, I don't think it would have been possible to move to that system in the current political climate (although the way parliament works it'd have a better shot then what's happening in America). I guess what I'm saying is... While having a system similar to the rest of the world would be great, I don't know if that's possible.

[@reckonerwheel5336]

I'm Canadian as well, and you summed up my thoughts perfectly. I was once in conversation with an cab driver in Chicago, and healthcare systems came up and when I explained the Canadian system, he said "But then you have higher taxes." On the very surface, it's a valid point, sure, but factoring in everything else, it's a small sacrifice to pay (literally) for your health and the health of others.

[@CJonestheSteam72]

Twelvecarpileup Of course remember that your taxes may increase but you'll not be spending a not insignificant amount of cash that you may not need to use. It's an effective indirect taxation for most, either individuals or businesses with a huge relative burden on the lower income scale

[@Anon54387]

Twelvecarpileup: You get a bill for the treatment for injuries from falling off the deck every time you pay your taxes. Actually, that isn't quite accurate. You pay for other people for falling off their decks even if you go through your entire life never falling off your own deck. You pay for people's health problems from using drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, sugary and fatty foods and sitting around on their couch all the time even if you eat healthily and exercise regularly. Ain't collectivism great?

[@lianajordan8214]

I pay for my neighbor's fire protection and for their kids to be educated too. And yes, it is great, because it's great to live in a functioning society instead of an every-man-for-himself hellscape.

[@Twelvecarpileup]

You get a bill for walking on a sidewalk every time you pay your taxes. Actually, that isn't quite accurate. You pay for other people for walking on sidewalks even if you go your entire life without walking on a sidewalk in their town. You pay for people's ability to move around from roads, transit and air travel all the time even if you never drive take the bus or fly. It's called taxes. That's how society functions. Isn't society great?

[@kyleblackburn1955]

I really appreciate this video Mr. Green. I love that fact that you put the effort in to exploring both sides. I'm sure that you have strong opinions and are very passionate about them, but it means a lot that you are willing to attempt to make yourself impartial. Idk how many people appreciate that, but I can attest that at least one person does.

[@demJem09]

Thank god you guys are here, talking on youtube about the important issues.

[@biancareads]

The American health care system terrifies me. I rely on public healthcare in Australia and I paid nothing for surgery with 3 nights in the hospital and the surgery itself save for the pain medication I took home with me (oxycodone) which cost me less than $50. This was a semi-elective surgery (tonsillectomy) and I would have surely spent so much money in the US having my gigantic potentially cancerous (it wasn’t) tonsil removed

[@LoadPast]

I love capitalism just as much as the next red blooded american, but there are just some things that make way more sense being socialized. Healthcare is one of those things. Making healthcare a business about profits is really a very dark concept if you stop to think about it.

[@ExPwner]

No, you don't love capitalism. No, there aren't things that make more sense socialized. No, healthcare isn't one of those things. You need logic and economics.

[@zackrida5452]

James Adams im sick of your comments on nearly every comment here ! is this your job? it explains everything!

[@ExPwner]

Tough. That means that I've said something that debunks either a falsehood or irrational aspect of your ideology. You can either reject that which offends your nonsensical views or you can accept the truth.

[@LoadPast]

James Adams um... considering you didn't actually make any real arguments, I'm gonna guess thats not the case.

[@bonniea8189]

James Adams Please explain.

[@caseymccarthy7308]

I can't tell you how much it makes me happy to hear the points you make in this video. I enjoy the reminder of inelastic demand as that is the primary factor that enables so many other people to thrive, not just survive, off the health of other people.

[@meteotransmuter329]

You know those trade-offs from switching to single-payer? Yea, sign me up.

[@Linkman95]

Oh no the horrible trade off that advertising medication and giving doctors swag will not be careers anymore. Is that truly worth affordable life saving procedures? EDIT: it occurs to me that here in america, many people think "no, no it isn't." Let me be clear. It is worth it. Of course it is. I don't even know where to start with you if you think it isn't.

[@vlogbrothers]

I largely agree with you (although I don't think all the lost jobs would be in that field); I'm just pointing out that we have to understand that when single payer healthcare is called a job-killing bill by its political opponents, they won't be wrong. It's up to us as a country to be able to talk about this stuff while acknowledging that change will not come without loss for some people. -John

[@lachronic7821]

vlogbrothers Could those people who lost the jobs get relocated to a new job involving health care?

[@Linkman95]

Admittedly my comment was a bit of an exaggeration. Sadly not all jobs would be in such an ethical grey area. I think the true trade-off is in not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rid of those kind of jobs is the positive, and that needs to be weighed against the negative of losing the other jobs that aren't so grey tied to our current system.

[@barrettmullins4622]

One question. Would you be willing to give up your job and not have a job for 1 year to save random person you never met life?

[@cookieaddictions]

Barrett Mullins people lose jobs all the time. Industries become outdated or are outsourced etc. We shouldn't keep an expensive broken system to preserve a bunch of useless redundant jobs. Bringing up a biased example is not a rational way to look at it.

[@marcielston3019]

Excellent video. As one of the 9% who don't have healthcare (the successfully self-employed are completely shat upon by the ACA) it's tough to see the 91%, and our government have turned away from this issue to pursue the partisan spats that so consume Washington and our media. When health insurance for two 50ish healthy people would cost over $25K a year we said no. We have banked the money, and pay cash when we need something - hoping this mess gets fixed before our health goes to crap.

[@adicakes]

god willing marketing managers will be the first up against the wall come the revolution

[@adicakes]

cue 500 absolutely inexplicable likes

[@codyofathens3397]

Hopefully right before anyone who's responsible large big box chain stores.

[@juliaawesome555]

Just wanted to mention how lovely your skin looks John, so radiant :) new skin care routine

[@thumpittt]

thank you for continuing to make educational and compassionate videos 💕

[@RileyDueck]

My life is complete. I finally know how to spell dooblydoo.

[@vlogbrothers]

I am glad I could provide this public service. (Wheezywaiter named it and invented the spelling, for the record!) -John

[@MrStn]

This is how it should work: Sic/injured -> help

[@MrStn]

@Luís Filipe Andrade If you have to ask that question you really haven't given it much thought.

[@MrStn]

​@Luís Filipe Andrade I don't live in America. I live in a country that values human life enough to provide healthcare to all it's citizens, and even tourists. The fact that the US refuses to join the rest of the developed world in this area is not on me.

[@MrStn]

@Luís Filipe Andrade I just have to point out that your comment oozes of insecurity and brainwashed American exceptionalism. Are you really suggesting that the only people who should be able to criticize bad systems are the ones who live under them? I still haven't told you what country I live in, yet you make pretty bald assertions about my homeland. When it comes to the cost of healthcare for all, even studies conducted by conservative outlets conclude that it saves a lot of money. So it's not some fairy tale, pie in the sky, unicorns and rainbows, wishful, impossible thing to fund. Besides, when it comes to funding things you're giving the military a blank check to destabilize entire regions. So the problem isn't that you can't afford it. And the large immigration wave from Europe to the Americas that happened in the 1800s occurred in a world that is totally different from the one we live in today, so that's just another mute point. And it' not on me, because I don't have voting power in the US, but I do care about human well being. The US is the wealthiest nation in human history, and yet you're struggling to keep up. It's embarrassing.

[@tdplumer]

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your explanation vids. guys! Thank you! Keep 'em coming. Maybe we'll start to make better choices as a country, in part, as a result of your work.

[@timothychin1594]

John should teach health economics. That was amazing.

[@theFailQuail]

You should watch Healthcare Triage. John doesn't host it, but he does executive produce the show and it goes into MUCH more detail on healthcare economics, politics, and reform. The host on the show is an MD who runs his own practice, so he has a great amount of insight into the intricacies of the US System.

[@Anon54387]

Here is some health economics. I worked for a place which designs and manufactures medical electronics, blood cell counters and the like. Intricate, complicated stuff. Then the Affordable Care Act was passed and signed into law by Obama. The ACA has a 2.5% excise tax in it. I find many people don't even know what an excise tax is so I'll explain it. An excise tax is a tax which is levied on revenue instead of profit, thus it is a tax which can cause a company to start losing money. The company for which I worked had their profit cut from $100 million to $50 million. Over 12% of the company was laid off because of this, thousands of people. This primarily hit the research development and quality control departments which really puts the skids on future technological development. So it just doesn't affect those of us who lost our jobs, but the public at large. You, after all, will need what is produced by this company one way or another. Other medical device manufacturers which put even more into research and development than our company actually did start to lose money when this tax went into effect. I'd hate to see what the layoffs were like at those companies if they are even in business anymore. I've kept in touch with those I used to work with. This company really believed in producing the products in the USA since it was the vision of the founder of the company. They tried to weather the storm in hopes that the ACA would be repealed by the next administration after Obama. That the new administration and Congress still hasn't repealed that law has led those on the company's board to conclude that the handwriting is on the wall. They are moving all production to Malaysia and this company has produced their product in the USA for 52 years so now the entire domestic workforce is going to lose their jobs except for the few who do field service in the USA. These are also well paying jobs which are not being replaced. The people who work there are going to have a hard time staying in food and home after this. Just the possibility that the ACA would be repealed has caused people to say that jobs would be lost if it did happen. That's interesting. These jobs that would be lost if the ACA were repealed are those being supported by that excise tax. These same people didn't have a bit of concern at the private sector job loss that occurred as this tax went into effect. Odd, don't you think? The lesson to be learned from this is that government should just stay the hell out of things.

[@Anon54387]

And the stupid ObamaCare bronze plan is nearly as expensive as the excellent coverage I had through that employer.

[@karlthomson7194]

Timothy Chin lol, no.

[@bobrolander4344]

Sure, insurance CEOs and lawyers are soooo important for human survival, sure.

[@felixfruhauf4940]

This should air 5 times a day daily on every major news outlet as a PSA. Americans need to have grown up discussions about complex topics, including but not limited to health care!

[@Praptolium]

"And with less money being spent per procedure, lots of other people would see their incomes go down, including doctors or nurses." 5:25 Source?

[@DerpyHoovesy]

@@dfzdjs The extra money per procedure is not due to the doctors salaries, it is due to the bureaucracy and middle men ie: insurance companies. Their non-existence would be the bearing of the cost.

[@InfernoBlade64]

David Zhuravlev Costa are high because insurance are ferocious middle men who demand money from hospitals and insurance holders

[@alexcereuceta5907]

Good job my friend! Most costs are not derived from doctors/therapists/nurses compensations, but from the overhead and godless compensations for the executives.

[@alexcereuceta5907]

David Zhuravlev Most of the excessively high costs are not derived from doctors/therapists/nurses/maintenance compensations, but from the overhead and godless compensations for the executives. Big pharma also plays a big role when they price bandaids at $5 a piece. Same with medications etc. You know, basic economics.

[@MrTigerlore]

*#1 American Healthcare System:* insured pays $160 each month for health plan (almost $2,000 a year); but insured must pay $8,000 out-of-pocket in medical costs before insurance company pays anything (but some medical costs don't count toward the $8,000). Once insured spends $8,000, insurance company pays half of the cost for things the plan covers (but the plan contains lots of coverage gaps and loopholes); company will do 50% co-pay up to $50,000 of annual medical expenses; then insured must pay all expenses until annual medical costs reach $200,000; then insurance company will pay all covered medical costs up to $350,000. That's the cap; (insurance company will pay nothing beyond that cap). The plan resets at zero each year, regardless of how much the insured paid in medical fees over the prior year. *#2 Canadian Healthcare System:* person gets sick, goes to hospital; hospital cares for them. Nobody deals with health insurance companies. That's it.

[@homobrain4men]

As an HIV + Individual for over 30 years, I have asked myself THIS VERY QUESTION, TIME AND AGAIN!

[@theholyhay1555]

Heinz Voss i hope you get good after all this time🙏🏼

[@voss451]

Perhaps taking a little bit of the $58 Billion being allocated to the military could improve the situation. Not only that but perhaps people like Trump who make hundreds of millions of dollars a year could pay more in taxes than someone who makes $12/hr would help even more. John was correct in saying that not everyone wins but when the "losers" in the equation are people that make obscene amounts of money, it's hard to be sympathetic.

[@lachronic7821]

Cory D Won't work, they've made it so if you take money from the military you take jobs too.

[@voss451]

That would be up for debate because most of that money will be going to Halliburton, Blackwater (or whatever it is they're called these days) and other contractors who charge the Gov't insane amounts of money for their services. Whatever money is taken from the military, use it to help fund companies that make & install solar panels. Thousands of people will be employed and the jobs will make a POSITIVE difference.

[@elaineteut6508]

Cory D what, you don't think $25 million is enough. Americans spend their money stupidly too.

[@barrettmullins4622]

We already put 500 billion a year into medicaid.... and over 900 billion a year on healthcare given out by the government...

[@lachronic7821]

Barrett Mullins Your point is.

[@estivel15]

Because if that conversation doesn't involve healthcare companies making billions of money, leaving citizens on bankruptcy paying medical bills, then it's not a conversation to have.

[@userasdf]

Ron H have you been to American emergency rooms? American health care is still MUCH more expensive than Sweden (so even saying Sweden health care is expensive when we're talking about the us system is basically a lie/just wrong) and leads to many more deaths and bankruptcies than Sweden. Sweden definitely isn't perfect but compared to America it is still better.

[@barrettmullins4622]

but health insurance companies are making record amounts of money since obamacare was passed....

[@jeffpiper4208]

Thank you for actually informing the public. So nice to actually learn something about healthcare. Not just hear each sides talking points.

[@andreabreckenridge5680]

How's about a clue?

[@carlmaster9690]

America is the only western country that doesn't have Universal Healthcare

[@JamesIsAway]

We are also the only western country with a gigantic-ass population "But James what about Brazil they have a gigantic-ass population" lol do you really wanna be like Brazil

[@atpnguyen1442]

Single Payer means each person paying for himself (or herself). Insurance Industries should change its career by building more hospitals and clinics … Healthcare is human right granted by God - don’t make this human right profitable to feed evils and political puppets …

[@glenbe4026]

@@JamesIsAway Thats fair. I do NOT want to be like the USA either. For just as many reasons as not wanting to be like Brazil. Thankfully my nation is NOT like either.

[@Tony29103]

We are the only modern developed country without it. Simple as that.

[@The_king567]

Good we don’t want it

[@JasonHamilton38]

"Life is pain...anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something." What you reminded me of when saying that there is no magic bullet.

[@AndsenPhren]

The really big problem with private insurance in the first place is the inability for them to accept pre existing conditions. It doesn't make any sense for a business to add more to its load. Having publicly funded health care would make the money pool bigger and make it to where no one's life gets ruined by a medical bill they didn't see coming anymore

[@melonlord1414]

Fredrik, I think that''s an Important problem, that there is the possibility that the government tries to save money this way, but on the other hand, voters really have a problem with dying, so reducing the service of healthcare to much will always lead to a strong resistance from them.

[@barrettmullins4622]

So if I need a surgery that costs 100,000 and I dont have insurance, I should be allowed to sign up, take 100k out of the system, get better, and drop my insurance?

[@AndsenPhren]

A health insurance agency probably wouldn't allow you to enroll in the first place because you would be a cost to them straight out. That's why publicly funded health insurance makes the most sense to me. We already have it in the military and for military families where I work and for some reason its ok there it should be fine for the public.

[@Anon54387]

Should people be able to drive around without insurance and then be able to get car insurance after an auto accident then have the insurance company pay for the repairs and injuries?

[@AndsenPhren]

Car insurance really isn't the same I think because you're insuring an object and not your life. If there is any car insurance company that would accept you in that kind of situation they probably have some sort of contract deal to where they still end up making profit in the end and screwing you over if you try to get out of the contract right after your accident has been covered.

[@noodlelatte9609]

Mentions of Chile and Slovenia in the same video! As happens, I'm a citizen of one and living in the other. Both countries have parallel public and private healthcare, though how those two systems interact is different. They also have different problems. Chile has private and public systems almost completely independent; the government one is financed through, essentially, a tax which takes 7% of your income, and it also covers people without insurance. It suffers from the typical problems of singe-payer systems. Ie it takes a long time to see a specialist, some things that are really expensive and rare are not covered, the latest, most expensive drugs are not available. If you don't want to be on the government system, you can have that 7% of your income that's taken out of your salary go to a private insurance company, which will give you treatment in a private clinic. Generally, private clinics are fast, high quality, and... very expensive. So, the poor are stuck with the public option, while those that can afford it can go to the private system. One thing the public system has, though, is a guarantee that you will be treated in 6 months; so if you don't get a specialist by then, the government will pay for you to see a private specialist. Slovenia, on the other hand, doesn't have that option, and waiting lists go into the years. Slovenia's healthcare system is dominated by the government-run insurance plan. Basically, everyone is required to get insurance at a fee (it's something like $40 per family) and it's subsidized by the government though payroll taxes. Slovenia also has a problem that because the government runs the system, it has huge bargaining problem, and forces the doctors and nurses to be significantly underpaid (the average wage of a doctor is lower than the average wage of other people). Consequently the system is bleeding doctors, and more importantly, specialists, who go to other countries that pay better. This is making the waiting lists even longer. Private healthcare is not really a "system" so much as it is doctors running their own clinics in their free time, taking up some of the slack from the government waiting lists. But since doctors are underpaid in the public system, and the waiting times are so long, they charge a lot for consultations. However, since there is no private infrastructure, what doctors outside the system can do is somewhat limited. Anyway, in case someone was interested in the alternatives to the US...

[@ThomasKossatz]

Hello from Germany. Your analysis touches many important issues, and I like it. Let me add to your Video: There is a third way to organize health care: Self-governing non-profit private health insurance. It does not matter which one you select as long as you don't get costs under control. A friend of mine got a heart transplant in Oaklahoma. 256.000$ was for the teams's malpractise insurance - for this single one surgery. Too many lawyers, not enough healthcare. The other underlying problem are too many unregulated monopolies. My 2 cents from a different perspective :)

[@vegardliland]

man Im glad I live in Norway :)

[@memeosaurusrex3382]

@RedGoat fantastic debate m8

[@MelMel-sz2gd]

@RedGoat Calling someone a socialist isn't an insult, when what you are referring to is basic health care for all citizens. That's a compliment.

[@limedickandrew6016]

@RedGoat And if he is a socialist, what of it? Tell me why that is a bad thing.

[@cesarromo987]

@RedGoat conservatives calling people socialists and communists without having any idea of what that means is funny.

[@jacquelinelaybourn2544]

this is much needed

[@Flowrezzzz456]

Subscribed. Run for Congress. We need folks like you in Washington.

[@erniemassri6919]

This video should be shown in congress, everyday...

[@froggygurl8775]

Finally! Someone who explained every side with no bias.

[@originalkaratemastr]

This is why I love living in Australia. The young, the old, and the poor have heavily subsidised non-emergency healthcare, like medications, dental, mental health care plans, etc. All emergency care (that I know of) is covered by Medicare for all Australians and most permanent residents. Non-emergency healthcare (some surgery etc) is available at fairly low costs or free depending on what it is, who is getting it, and why, but you do have to be on a waiting list, and you can't choose your providers in most cases. If you do want the luxury of choosing your provider and reducing your wait times, then you can buy your own private insurance. The more you pay for private insurance, the less your excess is, and the greater your coverage, as a general rule. You will also be charged less by the government for Medicare if you hold private insurance.

[@MegaYoda2]

insurance should not be required

[@eline6731]

Only healthy people would make that argument

[@The_king567]

@@eline6731he’s right why should I have to pay for you

[@lism392]

I actually do not understand why when Americans talk about healthcare, they talk almost exclusively about money. forgive me for making this assumption, but it seems to me like you care more about money than you do about people. I'm biased because I grew up in a single-payer healthcare system but, for me, it's surprising to hear people talk about the lives of their citizens like they talk about commodities. You have the things you MUST pay for, in every situation, in every budget. The health of your citizens is not one of those things you can just not provide for. It's not the same as funding a research program or the arts or whatever else. It's literally what keeps people alive. We, as a society, are responsible for keeping each other from death and sickness. At least we are where I'm from. Whenever I hear people say "well it's too bad that some people will lose their healthcare, but maybe it's for the greater good" I'm so shocked. From my outside perspectives, Americans don't seem to talk about the people in their country like people.

[@lism392]

like. you want to PROFIT off the lives of your peers. I dunno I think it's really messed up and maybe a little evil. sorry. love the vlogbrothers. (also using the general you here)

[@melonlord1414]

++

[@switchingtime]

I'm going to try to respond with respect to all elements of your comment, because I like to think I get where you're coming from. First things first, I really really REALLY hate this notion that people from other countries have that Americans would shoot each other for a dollar, or that you guys would give everything to make sure everyone's in perfect health. Your countries have plenty of corruption, and we have plenty of upstanding workers. I want to emphasize this because this misrepresentation of 300+ million people into a caricature does nobody any good. That being said...you have a point. It's weird, because if there's room to fight, corporations will fight for every penny they can get. So they bribe politicians and capitalize on the genuine growing pains that would come from adopting this system, pointing out that it wouldn't be as good as it is in European countries, and pointing out that all these jobs would be lost, and that there would undoubtedly be some people lost in the shuffle. These are valid concerns and complaints, but they become tools to manipulate people into acting in their own perceived best interest, which is really damaging to everyone. And this is why I hate the generalizing of America and Americans as barbaric or idiotic. People act like the choice is as clear as night and day, which infuriates me. Do you know why Trump won? Because tens of millions of disenfranchised people, the majority of which are hard-working, good people, were conned into thinking that the orange moron would care about them. Why? Because *nobody else paid attention to them for decades,* even when their towns and livelihoods were drying up and the stimulus packages didn't reach them. And when these people were finally given any acknowledgment, they're shit on for supporting someone who (pretends to) actually hear them out. I digress, though. My point is that these are (mostly) well-intentioned people fighting healthcare change. It's reductive and harmful to see them as actively fighting against the welfare of others; they just don't want their healthcare to be ruined, and don't want to see people lose their pay or their jobs for the sake of what appears to be a tax increase. Hope this gave some insight, I'm running on empty so I apologize if there were any spelling or grammar errors in the post. Have a good night!

[@Oodain]

you do know that some of the most social european countries also beat you on economic freedom right? it is far simpler than americans make it our to be, they however are caught in their various ideologies, anyone who identifies as a single ideology is essentially a part of the problem.

[@christinasmall7351]

Lis McMillan Many Americans also strongly value the idea of individual liberty and personal responsibility and a single payer system hurts both of those ideas. They look at it as the government forcing them to do something and spend their hard earned dollars on people who may have made poor choices that made themselves sick.

[@courtneyy7789]

This was so incredibly helpful. I can honestly say I've never understood the healthcare debate better than I did after watching this.

[@userasdf1546]

I work as a data analyst for a large healthcare provider, I can tell you that we don't not make any profit off of Medicare. Healthcare provider's​ often refuse to treat Medicare patients because they will go out of business with Medicare's rates. Just to give you an idea, Medicare pays us around 60$ per hour of work, your local car mechanic charges more then that. and the service we provide requires doctors, nurses and really expensive equipment. John just said Medicare is more expensive then comparable programs, add that to the fact that they pay like crap, we will have a disaster if it becomes universal

[@ExPwner]

This is something most people don't want to accept. Medicare is forcing the true cost of care onto paying customers. Expanding it doesn't make all things cheap. The costs must be paid by some entity.

[@AKHMallory]

Single payer healthcare would cost me my job (best paying job I've ever had) in health insurance. But the overall benefit for all the people in this country would be worth it.

[@KWray-yq8on]

Thank you for saying something that we desperately need Americans to be saying all over the place "This may be uncomfortable for me but I will support it because I get that it's part of a greater good." The biggest wall I run into on political issues with people is when they won't look up and consider the whole, when they let their own discomfort in things not working how they think, that they are a cog in the system, get in the way of being open to what the real trade offs of changes are. (Healthcare, EPA, Climate Change, Education.) Thank you.

[@Manuellaborer]

That is very heroic. We need more people like you!

[@rjfaber1991]

So what about a system like we have here in the Netherlands? We have health insurance companies, but rather than leaving them free to use (and sadly often abuse) their power, we very strictly regulate them. The government decides which treatments are part of the basic insurance package which every insurance company hás to offer, which involves basically every medical treatment except dentistry, plastic surgery and alternative medicine, and then lets companies compete to get the lowest price for that basic package. Every private individual is also legally obliged to have health insurance, and all health insurance companies are obliged to take on every client that wishes to join them, regardless of pre-existing conditions. As a result, the average Dutch person pays about €100 a month in health insurance to get full coverage of anything they might actually need, and less well-off people can get up to 80% of that money back from the government.

[@jibrish4802]

@Rovert Faber, thats generally what the ACA was trying to do. The issue is that there aren't any people either side of our political spectrum who are willing to bear the weight of a hard and fast transition (painful) or an aching fazing out transition.

[@stephencody6088]

Thank you ma'am for being a reasonable empathic human. And it might just be you're skillset and knowledge would be useful to a new national healthcare system.Be nice to have a government job.

[@GoddessPallasAthena]

I think ONE of the reasons it's the way it is because companies - BIG companies - like it this way. For those who can afford it, it might be an incentive to go work there or to stay, even if the company is terrible to work for. Also, just because large companies NEED to offer insurance, doesn't mean that everyone working there can actually AFFORD to buy it. Also, a lot of companies keep people's hours low so they don't HAVE to offer benefits including insurance. So, they do hold a LOT of cards, and it's one of the cogs that keep our healchcare less than healthy.

[@Neptunia98]

Notification squad!! ♥️

[@flurgerbla7609]

yusss

[@Altoids101]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ take my energy john and fix this healthcare system ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[@TheAndroidNextDoor]

My issue is that these days, at least with health care, we have people like Bernie Sanders pushing to make health care a "basic human right" without first having the conversation on if universal health care is even a good idea or not or even considering the factors that makes it appear to "work" in some countries but not in others. This idea that we can make something that other people, by necessity, provide into a human right strikes eerily close to slavery. Free speech is a human right because no one needs to give it to me, other people only need to stand out of the way and not infringe upon it. In essence, no individuals need to do anything to give me the right to free speech. Human rights are things that self-actualize. Health care can be a necessity, yes, but declaring it a human right seems foolish. Human rights generally require the use of force to be violated or the threat of it. Ie. a totalitarian regime suppresses free speech through the end of a gun. But by declaring health care a human right, a doctor can violate your right simply by doing nothing. Literally nothing. By not providing you with health care, a situation that can be brought upon by a near infinite amount of circumstances, the doctor has violated your human rights. Another question, who is going to pay these doctors? These people who are going to provide health care under this system where it's a human right are not going to do it for free. The money has to come from somewhere. And contrary to popular belief, the solution does not lie in just cutting military spending or some other big budget project because it looks easy. The only way you get these doctors to work in this system is either if you pay them, like we do now, or you force them, thus violating their rights as individuals. Can we not see the problem here? People like Sanders come off as very dangerous. Would a universal health care system be good? Under the MOST ideal of circumstances in some magic theoretical future land where we have the med pods from Elysium to cure all our ills, yes maybe then it would work. But we live in the real world. And just saying things that people like to hear is a pretty easy way to get us into some really dark places. Is health care a necessity for a great many people in this world? Yes. Is it a human right? No. Any service that must be administered by other individuals cannot be declared a human right. So what's the solution? I don't know. But I would like to try to find out without getting shouted down that I hate poor people because I don't think health care is a human right.

[@Megzy_B]

Insurance companies & their lobbyist spend a large amount of money by donating to political parties as well as to individual lawmakers for us to ever have a single payer or universal healthcare.

[@sarahmoonnn]

I live in Australia and pay $0 for doctors visits and dentist checkups, even massage & chiropractic are covered (you may pay a small gap between $10-20) and presciptions also cost next to nothing compared to the US. Say you were a female who needed birth control, which costs around $50 per pill packet, lasting you a month. But with Aussie healthcare, you wouldn't pay much more than $5-$10. Healthcare isn't even a worry for the average Australian. Isn't the USA supposed to be 'leading the world' or something? Can't even sort out something that other countries have had sorted for years.

[@decaf4me2]

Superb, understandable description of a very complex and confusing system. Thanks so much!

[@lynxminx4]

6% of our GDP doesn't resolve to 6% of our jobs.

[@joecleveland6525]

Maybe the government should subsidize fresh vegetables instead of corn and to make healthy food accessible to the poor, preventing all kinds of ailments like diabetes, autoimmune diseases and heart disease. Instead of treating people with drugs after they get sick, make sure they don't get so sick in the first place. I'm all for single-payer, but lets start at the root of the problem.

[@tgdemon228]

Single payer enables government to look at things from a society-wide perspective. The UK, Canada, France etc. all pour way more money into preventative care (i.e. vegetables) than the U.S. does.

[@GoatZilla]

Exactly my sentiments. Now all I have to do is forward this instead of explaining it. Thanks!

[@DudeWhoSaysDeez]

people are literally dying because Americans can't unify on a good healthcare solution

[@ExPwner]

People are dying regardless, and the "people losing Medicaid equals people dying" line is nonsense.

[@Sammysapphira]

No this is Patrick Under obamacare*

[@deprogramm]

No this is Patrick we don't really care

[@DudeWhoSaysDeez]

IF you don't care that people are dying, while talking about HEALTH CARE (read the words multiple times if you get confused), then you are not part of the conversation

[@The_king567]

Nobody is dying most Americans have insurance

[@whylime21]

What's in the boxes John? ;)

[@vlogbrothers]

Dunno. -John

[@KerbalRocketry]

There Is not IDea what's in the boxes?

[@rachaelriddle3526]

+vlogbrothers Honestly this bothered me more than the collar. John, how do you not know? Aren't they in your office/filming space? My curiosity must be sated.

[@masonduke5647]

whylime21 Cmon, what's in the fucking box??!

[@R.Kardos]

Gwyneth Paltrow's head

[@100RentalCars]

Wonderfully done. Thank you.

[@Alverant]

1) People don't want to hear about trade-offs, or at least not a trade-off that affects them. If a trade-off adversely impacts some group of people they don't like, that's OK. 2) You said one one of the trade-offs could be a loss of some jobs. But should those jobs exist in the first place? If the president hired a band to follow behind him and play theme music, it would be a waste of money. Eliminating that position would cost jobs but they shouldn't have been hired at all. Healthcare should not be a for-profit industry.

[@JustAChannel_13]

While this is true, it is not good for the economy to drop so many jobs all at once. and more individually, a lot of people won't just be out of a job, they'll be out of a career. I'm not saying those jobs need to stay, I'm thinking maybe we also need to help people who've spent 20 years in a now irrelevant job market adjust and find a new career.

[@ExPwner]

"Healthcare should not be a for-profit industry." You have no rational basis for this claim. I say that it shouldn't be ran by the government because coercion is immoral.

[@TheMiddiefrosh]

My rational basis is that affordable and accessible healthcare increases healthcare outcomes for more people, increasing their economic and innovation potential, and further increasing society's ability to move forward and tackle future problems.

[@ExPwner]

That's not a rational basis for declaring that healthcare should not be a for-profit industry, given that "affordable and accessible healthcare" happened moreso under a free market system before state intervention than after it. As healthcare expenditures in the US rose, so did third-party payment, government regulation and government spending on healthcare. Those are not a matter of mere coincidence.

[@lilyd960]

WHERES THE CLUE

[@lachronic7821]

Lily Dahlgren his collar maybe.

[@Suprsim]

Watching you talk on vlogbrothers makes miss the World History videos you hosted, I don't think I ever had so much fun learning on the internet... ever... in the 15+ years since I first started using AOL

[@Montanaboyeli]

I think you guys should consider doing a show about how to best figure out where you should move if you want to change countries. You could talk about politics, laws, culture, and other things that change when you move into a new country.

[@magia710]

i dont care about insurance companies..

[@LaneMaxfield]

I'm two minutes in and already jumping up and down screaming "yes! Thank you!!!!" The phrase that got that reaction was "inelastic demand." It's such an essential point, and yet I almost never hear it brought up when we talk about healthcare and it utterly baffles me how many times I've brought it up to people and they've never even heard of the concept.

[@whylime21]

CLUES?

[@ErinClements1]

hi ylime

[@beckybrooks654]

Yes clues please =D

[@whylime21]

'ello Erin :)

[@wizkida981015]

+

[@werewolfsbane]

Hi Ylimeee