Why Can't Christians Agree on "True Christianity?"

[@KGP221]

When evidence is absent, truth becomes an individually determined value.

[@Grayraven777]

More like truth becomes an individual named Jesus, because actual truth with slap them in the face.

[@JohnDavis-e3c]

Amen!

[@sharper68]

The problem that all religious faith has is all iterations of religions have the exact same thing validating them, some faith. No iteration of a specific religion gets to claim primacy over the other versions, even though some try. Anyone that tells you there is only one true faith, is lying to themselves to do it.

[@cygnustsp]

I grew up jehovahs witness and we thought we had the world by the balls because only our organization preached the correct kingdom of god gospel, we used the name Jehovah, and nobody else could replicate our worldwide brotherhood. Plus we had the essential doctrines of no Trinity and soul sleep correct. Paradise earth too which nobody else seemed to teach. When i turned 25 i that thought, why do i think were right and everyone else is wrong? So i looked into it and realized anyone can make the Bible say anything but JWs in particular make it seem like Noah and Moses and David and Paul all had the same 20th century JW idea about God's promises and i finally called bullshit on that.

[@polycera8570]

It's a buffet table religion. Take what you find palatable and ignore everything else.

[@Corn_Pone_Flicks]

This is the most obvious evidence that religion is manmade: everyone believes in secular morality of one sort or another, which is why they shop for a religion that comports with what they already think. Hence, Christians who think their Bible supports a pro-gay God, when it patently doesn't, and Christians who think their Bible is really particularly down on gays when it really only mentions them a handful of times and advocates that all sin is equal.

[@riparianlife97701]

The Bible is 9999 turds and a bean. No point looking for the bean.

[@njhoepner]

I think more like a play-do religion...each denomination, each church, and each believer squeezes and twists it into whatever shape they want.

[@helbitkelbit1790]

I found myself doing that very same thing......( To be honest )

[@phileas007]

Religions would be so funny and entertaining if it wasn't for the religious, who actually take it seriously.

[@MrCancer66]

@phileas007 Iknow right, like a Monty Python skit or movie or something similar.

[@janusatthegate6201]

Oh for the day when it's all funny myth. Will we have to wait another 2,000 years? As long as the other myths are old?

[@nikkijubilant]

​@@janusatthegate6201(doesn't know anything about Mohamed, the Sikh Gurus or Baha'u'llah. And many other spiritual leaders and other phenomena. Stuck under the Christian concrete bridge.)

[@riparianlife97701]

But DO they? Have you ever actually met anyone who acted like thwy believed an invisible space monster could hear them think?

[@myanbeach]

Religion: Ignorant men “making shit up,” attempting control the simple minded via delusions of “magical sky fairies,” through an immoral, divisive, hypocritical, bullshit, theology, ripping-off billions of tax-free dollars from the gullible!

[@Moist._Robot]

You’re a great narrator Seth. I can listen to you all day.

[@JohnDavis-e3c]

Amen!

[@pandora8610]

Worth remembering that Jesus supposedly prayed to his dad/self for his followers, both present and future, to be united. So any Christian accusing another Christian of not being a "true Christian" is in fact demonstrating that the god described in the Bible won't even answer its /own/ prayers.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

To be fair, that's pretty self-evident within the narrative. Jesus also prays not to die but understands that God will do what is in his will or at least would rather do what is his will. So that prayer, while it is Jesus's wish, doesn't mean that it will be executed or executed to "perceived" "perfection". That's an excellent observation, however, that he prayed for maintained unity and from appearance of 30,000 denominations it doesn't seem to have worked or to have worked to the degree he probably hoped for. However, how much of this will we be willing to attribute to human error and inconsistency. Certainly a certain level of personal individual and corporate responsibility is to be understood from the narrative also.

[@tulpas93]

The bible proves that "god" is not it's author: it states that god is not the author of confusion!

[@axhed]

G O T T E M

[@bean-spiller]

"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." Ambrose Bierce - The Devil’s Dictionary (1911)

[@cliftongaither6642]

zig-zag

[@riparianlife97701]

Nothing upsets a Christian more than quoting Jesus to them.

[@DavidRichardson153]

Been saying something similar for years myself: if you want to piss off a Christian apologist (and hopefully shut them up in the process, though that is essentially a coin flip), demonstrate that you can and have read the Bible because nothing infuriates them more than someone who can call them out with the text that they obviously never read, not even the verses they love to cite more than any other - and bonus points if you do this to them in a public setting. Did that multiple times during my first run through university, and I was still a Christian then. And I specified "Christian apologist" because I am certain that you can do the same with a Muslim apologist and the Quran, but I do not have that experience for myself, though I have read the experience from Bassem Youssef about how he did the same to one (to be fair, it was more about Sharia law than the Quran, but still).

[@riparianlife97701]

@@DavidRichardson153 I have pissed off a lot of US Evangelicals, not by saying Jews dismiss Jesus as nonsense, which is too direct, but by saying Israel takes the lead in the War on Christmas.

[@DavidRichardson153]

@@riparianlife97701 That would certainly do it - and now I want to see the facial expressions they have as they try to process that, especially these days.

[@riparianlife97701]

@@DavidRichardson153 Can you imagine any better place to celebrate CHRISTMAS than the birthplace of JESUS!?

[@DavidRichardson153]

@@riparianlife97701 I can - and I can also imagine that with recent events, actually doing that is impossible, and your line to US Evangelicals would piss them off even more now.

[@Bryan198026]

Hell, even the gospels can't agree on Jesus. It's like each one is describing a different person.

[@brightargyle8950]

Fan fiction is like that, each author trying to one up the other with a bigger, better, more powerful whatever might be the topic.

[@ReadingRambo152]

The Gospel of Thomas (non-canonical), or the Infancy Gospel, tells the story of young Jesus, and he's absolutely terrifying.

[@Bryan198026]

@@ReadingRambo152 yeah, I’ve heard about the infancy gospel.

[@jamesy52]

The Lazarus story between Luke and John tickles me. Luke is all about scripture and why it matters more than signs. Then John's like: "Nah, Jesus raised the fucker from the dead!"

[@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1i]

I think they all say Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected . People see things diffrently if it were all the same then they would be robots lol . Every account agrees Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world and that Jesus arose from the grave . I believe your statement might be off Bryan .

[@jameswright...]

It's impossible to agree on a subject that's completely mythical. They just argue over interpretation of nonsense with no truth to it.

[@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1i]

James have you ever had a near death experience died and come back to life just curious ? If so will you provide your proof and share your experience thank you .

[@jameswright...]

@@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1i Just over 6 years ago I fell into a large old disused dock on a large river, snow on high banks and ice on water, taking short cut no one around, empty in the day this was gone midnight. I screamed, actually called for my mum, a middle age man wanting my mum, didn't think of my dad anyone just mum, how sad she would be. I felt cold tired up against the concrete bank I couldn't grip for ice and Mosley got tired felt it was pointless and then I relaxed, it was actually peaceful. Never thought of a god or a after life just accepted that's it. I pushed a little from side and ice broke, I was able to grab, I don't remember pulling myself out but woke up on the bank wet and freezing in day light with ambulance crew working. I left friends at just before 12am woke up taken hospital, arrived at 5:20. Told died but I remember nothing after ice break until waking up sorround. Does that cause? Why?

[@nikkijubilant]

​@@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1i I am comfortable with spirituality, and these near-death, miracle stories. But that which is mysterious and may fill one with wonder IS AN ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE and does NOT justify "proselytizing, wars, long sermons, churchianity" etc. So I side with atheists.

[@Matthew-LAMF]

​@@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1iif you died and came back to life you didn't die, you cant come back from death.

[@AGNOSTIC_incomprehensibleXIV]

​@@MR.CHRISTIAN-m1i Have you ever looked into non-Christian near death experiences? All NDEs prove is that people see all kinds of crazy stuff when their brains are malfunctioning.

[@Bloozguy]

I was a born again bible believing speaking in tongues Christian for a few decades. I've had all 3 Christian Baptisms. Strangely, it was my conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy that lead me to finally seeing the 'truth' about it all, and becoming a die hard strident atheist. The short version here is that I finally concluded that NOBODY was hearing from God, but merely vocalizing the delusions their minds can concoct. So many contradictory viewpoints.....30,000 protestant denomination, Catholics, Orthodox.....all claiming the others are heretics. I've read the bible 7 times, Genesis-Revelations.... dozens of topical studies. spoke in tongues.... ain't nobody around that searched or looked for God more sincerely than me. _I was blind, but now I see_ ....THANK GOD!😇

[@Plethorality]

That would have been a painful process. I am not an atheist, but my concept / s of God are different and changing. I wont say, "you were never really a christian". Of course you were. I wont go crook at you for leaving, either. Thank you for sharing your story.

[@Bloozguy]

@@Plethorality Your welcome. This podcast struck me right in the heart. It was life long journey for me indeed, searching first for God, then the _real_ Christian Church. It is rather ironic that I was often accused of being _divisive_ lol, because I never got a satisfactory answer to my questions. If you don't tow the denominational line, you're argumentative & divisive & therefore from the devil! EX. How is it that some Christians think speaking in tongues died with the last apostle, while others claimed it was evidence of being Baptised With The Holy Spirit? Surely God is not giving conflicted visions to people? ..is He? ...or, are they just reflecting the delusions their minds embrace? Speaking in Tongues at age 19 was the cement I needed to know that God was real and interested in my life. Then, it was decades of searching trying to figure out what I actually experienced....denomination hunting...true church hunting ..bible studies etc. That was over 50 years ago, and even still today, it truly was a glorious experience! Oh....the joy of feeling like you were in heaven and doused with God's Holy Spirit! ...what a buzz indeed..... ....and, what more proof of how the human brain can create powerful delusions that seem o so real. I get it now. These days, I'm nearly bullshit proofed, lol....tho it gets difficult to know what actually is true or not true. Anyone that thinks I was never a real Christian, simply does not think deeply enough about anything in life, lol

[@KageJW]

How do you think we can help others realize that they are just vocalizing their own delusions. I've gone round and round with them for weeks and can't get them to face reality. They just want to stay in their delusion.

[@thorvilkwilliams9596]

I pray that you will find peace with God.

[@Bloozguy]

@@thorvilkwilliams9596 I found something FAR more important.... _peace with myself knowing that people like you are living on delusional island.

[@hailsagan8886]

You'd think the perfect word from a perfect god would be easily interpreted and have no disagreement on its message

[@wet-read]

Yeah but you know they will just bring up our "fallenness" as the reason for this. So we gotta deal with that nonsense as well. Double H thinks that stuff is compatible with what we know of reality. I am gonna read his book eventually, more out of sheer curiosity than because I think there is any truth to it.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

Text is the worst form of communication. Now factor in archaic text from 2,000 to 3,500 years ago, from one culture, in a tiny part of the world, written by people who thought very differently than modern people do, and- what could possibly go wrong?

[@markengstrom1515]

I heard someone say,and I agree with them that let’s not teach any religion until you’re around 30ish and you’ve been to school and college and lived your life for a while and then toss in the religious rhetoric and see how many people you get to believe in the Bible

[@leothenomad5675]

It would be almost zero. If you don't already know about it, look up the 4 to 14 window, to me this is a tacit admission by evangelicals that they know if you can't get them young you won't get them.

[@joshuaf.3723]

At least until 25 when the human brain and mind is fully developed.

[@riparianlife97701]

Religion is like circumcision. It's a lot harder to talk people into it once they're grown.

[@craigsmith1443]

The original Christians were adults. I was. Most of my friends were. If Christianity is merely the product of upbringing, then atheism would be, too. That's not how human agency works.

[@riparianlife97701]

@@craigsmith1443 Which Christianity? Which Christian god? Even small towns have numerous, different churches where wildly-different versions of "God" are worshiped.

[@SalK-LS]

I love listening to these podcasts while I'm working. Actually, I gotta go back and listen to all the ones I've missed...

[@Nick23at63]

Romans 9 verses 11-21 states that you basically have no free will, since God molds you into whatever he wants you to be. Why? Because he chooses who he loves and hates before they are born and does this to show his power.

[@zulu3274]

😅 wow that is interesting... So it's almost as if no one should be mad that Judas betrayed Jesus because it's what God needed or wanted Judas to do anyway...lol

[@Nick23at63]

@@zulu3274 - Did God not want his son to die so that all sins could be forgiven? Yep, Peter did as God wanted him to do. And who is mad at Peter?

[@zulu3274]

@@Nick23at63 😅 alot of people mad at Judas saying he was a snake or pretended to be a friend to Jesus...but It was all part of the plan, so how can you be mad at someone who isn't under the influence of their own understanding or being manipulated by a higher power...

[@noahbrown4388]

Well I agree with that, but replace god with nature, the universe, what have you. And replace love or hates with who is reproductively successful

[@zulu3274]

@@Nick23at63 my apologies I meant to say Judas...

[@craighofmann638]

If only Seth really knew Jesus. He's a great guy and a helluva landscaper. I highly recommend his services.

[@tulpas93]

😂

[@fredriksundberg4624]

You're exactly one of those that this specific podcast is about.

[@dennisduncan7561]

Here we go with the no-true-Scotsman fallacy. Are you clods ever tired of that bunk argument? "If you left you were never really one of us". Such tripe. You must rely on this reasoning cuz if someone could legitimately stop believing that throws the belief into question.

[@craighofmann638]

@@dennisduncan7561 you get that I was joking, right?

[@carltoncoleman454]

It makes no sense to be gay and Christian. I was a self-loathing gay Christian. However, with a couple of years of deconstruction through the Unity Church after leaving Southern Baptist, I became an Atheist.

[@Finckelstein]

Neither does it make sense to be a woman and christian. Christianity was made for and by heterosexual men who feared to lose their iron grip on society.

[@TheMahayanist]

It doesn't make sense, but it's not impossible.

[@carltoncoleman454]

​@@TheMahayanist Oh yeah, I know several gay Christians and have social media connections with a handful of gay pastors. It just makes them look like a walking contradiction. I was once a Gay Christian and that alone was messed up but when I start deconstructing and eventually left the religion, I have to admit that I miss some aspects of the faith but could never return at the same capacity I started with which I actually have tried to do but to no avail because the cognitive dissonance would be too strong!

[@StopWhining491]

Welcome!

[@Bloozguy]

When it comes to theistic belief systems, _anything_ can be justified.

[@RickRomig]

If the Bible is really the inerrant word of an all-knowing god, then every Bible should read the same regardless of the language it's written in, and should contain no inconsistencies or contradictions, and be scientifically and historically accurate. It would clearly delineate God's word and what he wants with no room for interpretation. There would basically be no need for clergy or apologists.

[@cliftongaither6642]

ive always said the same thing.

[@jimmythebold589]

yup 100💯

[@mantistoboggan7228]

But then why does an all-powerful, all-knowing being need to rely on his "word" being passed on in book form of any kind? Why can't he just TALK to the humans he supposedly created?? Its not like these ridiculous stories were being told in real time, and even if they had been, the majority of people couldn't read them anyway! Literacy was just not that widespread back then. The accounts themselves are written at different times throughout history, in dead languages that virtually no one understands today. Its a preposterously idiotic way to pass on information and is bound to fail, which is the exact result.

[@zulu3274]

😅 I've been thinking that for a very long time now... Now I'm at the point where I say all of this could easily be straightened out if God would just come back and talk to everybody on the planet at the same time...in whatever language they spoke.... And it don't matter what you're doing in the moment just stop, come outside and listen to me... It's going to take about 12 hours to explain all of this.... Don't worry you'll be comfortable for the whole 12.....lol

[@craigsmith1443]

You have quite a list of demands for the God who respects human freedom and moral agency, and no understanding of the processes of human understanding. If everybody were truthful, honest, and objective, there would be no atheists.

[@DavidSmith-xs3or]

When you consider how many denominations of christianity there are, and how many denominations of Christians there are, its no wonder they all can't come together in agreement. And the bible is supposedly the unalterable, unchanging word of God, but it sure as hell has changed and altered itself over the past two millennia, what with several versions of the bible.

[@feedingravens]

Exactly what is currently my best killer argument - "Please tell me which denomination to choose, there are hundreds of denominations that vary so wildly, and each says it is right, and no one can tell me how far deviant a denomination can diverge to have a chance to go to Heaven?`

[@DavidRichardson153]

​@@feedingravens "Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church, we're just making him madder and madder." ― Homer Simpson

[@timdowney6721]

@@DavidRichardson153 The great majority of people don’t chose a god. They go along with the god of the society they happen to be born into. The society indoctrinates them, usually from childhood, to believe in the popular religion. Dissenters are persuaded-sometimes persecuted-to believe, or at least be quiet.

[@danmarius]

Jesus is just a story, and each man is just interpreting him in his own way.

[@surrelljr]

I’m glad that I decided to deconstruct and walk away.

[@craigsmith1443]

Like the man who jumped off a skyscraper and as he passed the floors below was heard to say, 'Ok so far...ok so far...ok so far...'

[@surrelljr]

@@craigsmith1443 at one time I think like you.

[@craigsmith1443]

@@surrelljr OK. Why did you decide to leave Christ?

[@surrelljr]

@@craigsmith1443 it started as a child, when we were doing Bible study, and I questioned the incest of Adam and Eve, and the great flood. I was nearly assaulted with a ruler. Then I went in the military, and I served two tours in the gulf region. Almost all the players there were from an Abrahamic religion, they all believe they were right, and the al believed God was on their side. And they were killing each other. We had an Islamic Jihad declared on us. I was forced into Christianity, I am native American, and I knew enough about our religion. They might they couldn’t eradicate it. Indoctrination was violent at times. I tried to get back in it, and then I truly read the Bible for what it was, not the cherry picked version that’s when I decided, that was it. I decided it was misogynistic, sexist, and patriarchal, and the only unforgivable sin is not worshiping that God. We don’t try to recruit people, but I’m free now, more than I ever have been. That thing in the Middle East? Not my monkeys, not my circus.

[@craigsmith1443]

@@surrelljr _I questioned the incest of Adam and Eve_ You were right to 'question' it, since it wasn't incest. You seem to have a rather elastic definition of it. _and the great flood_ It sounds as though you've missed the entire point of that story. The end of the story is the point, and the historical context is the reason for its structure. _I was nearly assaulted with a ruler_ 'Nearly' means that you were not. This is a problem? _I was forced into Christianity_ One cannot be 'forced.' One gives up, perhaps, which is not a biblical or Christian situation (that is, it should not have happened to you, if that's what did happen), but you always have moral agency, as you exercised as an adult, it looks like. So you still can. _I truly read the Bible for what it was, not the cherry picked version that’s when I decided, that was it. I decided it was misogynistic, sexist, and patriarchal, and the only unforgivable sin is not worshiping that God_ None of that is true. The Bible even says what the unforgivable sin is, and it's not 'not worshipping that God.' Remember, the Bible is written for you but not *to* you. It will be more like an overheard conversation that God will then use to bring to you what *you* must do. It's not a user's manual. _That thing in the Middle East? Not my monkeys, not my circus._ And not the subject of this discussion. You have several topics in your response. Which is most important to you at this moment?

[@grapeshot]

Yep and in the first and second century CE Christianity was all over the place when it came down to what they believe and what their views were.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Does the rainbow church in California with a lesbian Pastor boost the reputation of a snake handling nazi church in west virginia? Or does the nazi church drag down the reputation of the rainbow church in California, Since they both claim to be the true christians inspired by god?

[@thecrowing1989]

Which flavor of the hundreds of flavors of Early Christianity are you speaking of?

[@grapeshot]

@@thecrowing1989 I'm speaking on all of them from Marcion to the Pauline to the early Christian set that was a sex cult.

[@joshuaf.3723]

This is because it was pre Council of Nikaea. This was a conclave of bishops gathered on the orders of Constantine to create a unified cannon and dogma for the new official religion of the Roman Empire in 390s CE. Check out Holy Blood Holy Grail. A much more rational and evidentiary story of Christ. There is even a point where the authors uncover a letter from the Bishop of Aleppo to the Pope asking 'what should I do with this Book of Mark version we have that talks about Jesus being MARRIED to Mary Magdalene?' ...probably locked up in the Vatican archives or burned.

[@kingofmphs]

It’s difficult to agree on fiction.😊

[@zemorph42]

Idk, the fandoms I've been a part of don't have as much difficulty agreeing as Christians do.

[@thorvilkwilliams9596]

until we experience death, and it's tool late for everything, judgement is upon us. :(

[@AlexLightGiver]

The ignorance of Christians and the arrogance of Atheists. *Sigh*😞

[@miguelquintana8076]

Especially when its revised.

[@AlexLightGiver]

@@thorvilkwilliams9596 no

[@bean-spiller]

"The gospel history of Jesus consists of a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticism, and fabrications." ~Thomas Jefferson

[@JOHNDAVIS-b6r]

Amen!

[@goofusmaximus1482]

He is also known for a version of the bible that had every supernatural event removed. Probably the closest bible to the truth.

[@JOHNDAVIS-b6r]

Amen!

[@JOHNDAVIS-b6r]

god was the author of confusion!

[@rikk319]

@@goofusmaximus1482 The Jefferson Bible. Man was a ball of hypocritical contradictions personally, but he had a powerful tendency to cut through the hypocrisy of others.

[@georgem2334]

There's no hate like Christian love.

[@riparianlife97701]

Christian: My god is going to kill you and torture you forever and you deserve it. Me: That's stupid. Christian: Why are you so angry and hateful?

[@riparianlife97701]

Christian: My god is going to kill you and torture you forever and you deserve it. Me: That's stupid. Christian: Why are you so angry and hateful?

[@craigsmith1443]

_There's no hate like Christian love._ Yes, there is: atheist reason.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

@@craigsmith1443 Aw! Poor, Craig. Reason is offensive to a Christian. Interesting.

[@craigsmith1443]

@@adamantiumbullet9215 You apparently have none if that's what you got from a clear answer about 'hate.' Thomas Aquinas said that it doesn't take long to find the logical flaws in an atheist's argument. When they are found, the atheist tends to react as you did, as I said atheists tend to do, with 'hate.' You now have the opportunity to think better. You're welcome.

[@RickTempleTransport-rh2hu]

Religion is an addiction

[@kellydalstok8900]

That is true, because religion affects the same reward center in the brain that drugs do.

[@rhondah1587]

It's like a virus that passes from parents to children and sometimes just from person to person. Fortunately, one can get over that virus and become immune to its symptoms for the rest of their lives and others seem to have a natural immunity to it altogether. The best tonic to get over it is to be exposed to the light of science, reason and skepticism.

[@D-Pocalypse]

Exactly, half of my family is always drunk on god.

[@joshuaf.3723]

Not sure about that; certainly a dellusional worldview where at some point today's believers have to suspend their epistemological reason and empirical rationale to accept.

[@joshuaf.3723]

@@kellydalstok8900 is this true? That would be evidence of addiction or at least dependency.

[@airforcex9412]

It’s very difficult agreeing on made up stuff. Instead of those shows where theists call atheist and argue on the existence of God, they should all debate each other first and come up with a consensus. 10k years later we would still be at step 1 😂

[@michaelflorida56]

I was a disbeliever since I was around 12 but never could tell anyone in fear of humiliation and being outcast by most people. That was over 50 years ago. Thanks to the internet I learned there are millions out there like me, thank god LOL

[@jerrycallender7604]

FEEDING THE HUNGRY? CARING FOR THE SICK? WELCOMING THE TRAVELLER?

[@Dustin_Bins]

Hotel: Trivago.

[@missshroom5512]

I know many people that go to church for community and not so much to study or read the Bible. I know people too that go to be forgiven for their ways during the week. That one gets me. Ridiculous

[@pineapplepenumbra]

48:30 The talking donkey bit was a trope in the ancient world. There are a few stories where an animal tries to warn a human about a threat (poisonous water, for example), but the human, not understanding, berates, attacks or even kills the animal before finding out that they were right all along.

[@crizolaczarrazcalozirc6052]

Very informative thank you great job appreciate it

[@JohnDarwin7]

Hello Seth I hope you're having a pleasant run on this rock.🖖

[@ObservantHistorian]

Ah, yes...the many gods of Christian "monotheism." There's the Father, the Son, the "Holy Ghost," the Concubine, Satan the God of Evil, Gabriel and the other archangels, the many regular angels (one per person?), the many saints, the seraphim and cherubim...all eternal beings living in the supernatural realm, with the ability to intervene in nature and human affairs, no different from the greater and lesser gods of other ancient polytheistic religion, like those of the Greeks and Romans. Humans have always proposed such mediocre gods!

[@crucifiddle]

That was great 😃. As a kid I remember 2 visiting evangelists at my Father's church getting into a horrible argument about whether the rapture will be "pre-trib or post trib"! These two almost came to blows and it was an awful scene. Even as a 10 year old kid I remember thinking 🤔 "Jeez, religion is weird!" 😆😆

[@philipgrobler7253]

Because there is no absolute truth in it to begin with.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

Religion is not in the truth business.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

I could never understand all the Christians selling out on each other and declaring 'no true Christian'. But I certainly wont take authoritarian declarations from a person claiming to be a Steve. As a Steve myself, I denounce this heratic and hereby declare he is not nor ever was a TRUE Steve. #NoTrueSteve.

[@seandonahue8464]

It popped in my mind, when they try to wriggle out of Romans 1, oh death in this life or spirit death in next to make Jesus different gentle. What came to mind when you said that, EVERYONE has eternal life already, the only question is where, heaven or hell. That would mean to me, death in this life is what is meant. Thanks for what you do

[@timdowney6721]

Hearsay is always subject to dispute, and scripture is pure hearsay.

[@joshuaf.3723]

...otherwise known as 'testimony' among the religious. This can only ever be anechdotal evidence. This is just how individuals interpret experiences and is almost completely dependent ones previous enculturation.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable form of evidence. Hearsay is inadmissible in a court of law. There you have it.

[@johnwright-b2l]

Hell does not exist neither does heaven.

[@ShortFuseFighting]

How can they agree on anything if they just arbitrarily pick and choose whatever bit suits them? If you want me to respect your faith, you should first respect it yourself! I can respect somebody who is TRULY committed to it (much like I can respect a ballet dancer. I couldn't care less about ballet but I can respect the effort, devotion and seriousness with which they dedicate themselves to it). But I can NEVER respect a hypocrite and a cherry picker!

[@d.rabbit7276]

They can't even come to a consensus on three issues like baptism, speaking in tongues, and the rapture. Yet they slander atheists/agnostics because we discard all of the flaws and inconsistencies.

[@runemanqwe]

Random note, just got a 26 minute ad going over spiritual warfare after putting my phone down for a couple minutes while listening lol

[@ReadingRambo152]

I got an ad for a biblical cure for toe fungus 🤣

[@LogicAndReason2025]

The hole-e babble is popular because anyone can use it to justify anything.

[@Psalm1968]

It's interesting in the case of former Christians - like Seth - who will on the one hand attempt to point out that few Christians seem to agreee on what constitutes true Christianity, but then on the other hand advocate that they were once _true Christians._ If there is no "true Christianity" then it does not follow that a former Christian could claim he was once Christian. And interestingly enough, Seth will tell you all the things he thinks count as evidence of his former Christian beliefs.

[@brianbohmueller7487]

In the end, Christian dogma is problematic in the least. Still maybe we can rally mindful people of all faiths and none around the good idea that being compassionate to all living beings is a foundational ethic that makes sense.

[@rhondah1587]

For centuries, when the Roman Catholic church had an iron grip on christianity throughout much of the world, you might say it was under one umbrella of thought. However, those were also the most brutal and savage of times of christianity. Still, it had a variability within it as it conquered and colonized countries that incorporated their own prior pagan rituals into their newly forced religion. Most catholics I talk to today seem to believe that the Roman Catholic church was the "original" christianity and have no idea of just how splintered and fractious the groups of early christians were before church in Rome ultimately won out in the battle for dominance in early christianity, Part of the reason, not the whole reason, was Rome's adoption of christianity as the empire's religion because it caused Rome to rule the empire under a fascistic type of government. That made the empire weaken and it eventually fell, but the Roman Catholic church survived.

[@jonmeador8637]

That there is little to no agreement is especially irratating when it comes to moral issues. The Bible can give you 2 different answers to the same question or give a horrible answer to questions about rape and slavery.

[@steelersguy74]

There was actually a war fought over what constitutes “true Christianity”. It lasted about 30 years but I can’t remember what its name was.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

1618-1648. Catholic superstitionists and their protestant superstitionist allies against protestant superstitionists and their catholic superstitionist allies. Post the name if you remember it.

[@rikk319]

@@exceptionallyaverage3075 It was literally called The Thirty Years' War, between Catholics and Protestants over much of Europe at the time.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

@@rikk319 Swoosh!

[@christopherconkright1317]

Subjectivity, thou shalt not lie. If you believe a fact that turns out false was that a lie? Misunderstanding? Do you ask for forgiveness? What about stuff you never learn wasn’t true? Christianity in a nutshell. Subjectivity.

[@wet-read]

I've seen Christians ponder whether lying to save someone from grave harm or death is admissible. And of course, that silliness could be applied to other, less pressing things. Imagine getting mugged, and you have cash in your socks or something because you didn't want to give it away to some fucking mugger. The mugger says "That all you got?" when the contents of your wallet are lackluster. Apparently, Christians would have you say "No! I have more in my socks, right here!"

[@MrMattSax]

“God is not the author of confusion” I think the 10,000 different denominations and sects of Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism and Islam disagree with you.

[@centaur7607]

💯

[@BarbaraBylow]

This is a sticking point which I've gotten flack for. Christians will either get mad or completely ignore the point. 😂 The channel Ready to Harvest is a great educational channel. The host does a great job of throttling back on his own beliefs which makes those vids wonderful. He also posts community questions which I've often commented on and recieved some replies from wonderful Christians. They've helped nicely my understanding of the religion as well as doing their share to reinforce all those stereotypes we have about them.

[@somersetcace1]

Same thing has been going on for many centuries. Society/cultures progress, despite religious standards. In order for a religion that claims objective divine revelation to keep up, and not be abandoned, either the progressive ideas have to be repressed via theocratic authoritarianism,, or the interpretation of that `objective divine revelation` has to change. That leads to conflict within churches that then splinter. New denominations get formed, etc.

[@AdmiralBison]

Let Christians sort out their own mess. Religion will just splinter, start calling the other heretics, like they've always done.

[@gcoop-vg8hj]

Reading the Bible is what eventually deconverted me.

[@MetallicAAlabamA]

😂 I love Seth! Here in my part of bible belt USA, northwest Alabama to be specific. We literally have a county road just outside the city limits that has a large sign with a church directory. It lists every church, the denomination and mile marker. There is roughly 10 churches that dot the landscape, for about 10 miles. But what's even more crazy, is that where I live inside the city limits of Flo Town, Alabama. The birthplace of WC Handy, FAME studios, and home of the University of North Alabama, the oldest state public university in Alabama. (Look, I love history!) If you've ever watched "The Andy Griffith Show", then you know who the hell "Goober Pyle" is. George Lindsey is a graduate of the University of Alabama. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. There are about 150 churches within a metropolitan area of a pop: roughly 125,000. Within my neighborhood, there are 15 churches within 24 city blocks.These are not mega churches now. These are small, denomination of about 20-40 individuals. But that should give someone pause right off the rip, right?! I mean, within a 4 block area there is a Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal, and Bahai Faith, all within that area! WTF!? 😂

[@albionicamerican8806]

Just to show the illogical mishmash of doctrines in this religion, consider that "going to heaven" doesn't work any way according to Christians' own beliefs. What if you go to heaven, and then you rebel against god? Or if something else happens to alienate you from god?

[@rikk319]

Most Christians aren't even internally consistent with their beliefs. I can hear someone daily talking about "their father looking down from Heaven" after he died, or some other family member or famous Christian supposedly in Heaven...but the Bible says people won't be in Heaven until after Judgement Day. Same as with "Christians" who claim someone who dies becomes an angel...but in the Bible angels are not humans who "leveled up", either. I know not all Christians do this, but it seems very common among them.

[@kenallen5161]

BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH IN RELIGIONS! ANY OF THEM!!!

[@Ex_christian]

Exactly!

[@fredriksundberg4624]

Because so far no one having proved that there's a there there in the first place at all.

[@wizquinn8021]

Good morning Seth. I was wondering if you can help out Tim from Harmonic Athiest by giving your conversion/ deconversion story? Thanks for everything you do.😊

[@rhondah1587]

Not all so-called christians believe that the OT god is the same as the NT jesus character. They are few, but they do exist. They see the OT god as an evil god that created the world but that the good god was jesus who came to save us from the OT evil god. I know, it's all so ridiculous either way. Every theist of any kind seems to love to make up their own personal version of their god and what they want to take from any religion. You can see it as some will go church shopping to find one that most aligns with their own personal take on what they want to believe. I find it extremely telling that none of them really think down deep any of it makes sense other than in their own imagination. It can be useful to hate or accept certain other groups of people, but they can't ever show how any of it has any validity whatsoever.

[@Sean-oy8xm]

No 2 Christians believe in the same God….. This is another reason why I rejected my own faith.

[@starpenta]

I've learned so much more about Christianity and the Bible than I ever did as a believer. On Genetically Modified Skeptic's channel, one show he did was about the different tyoes of Christians in the 1st century and one rype believed Jesus was actually the son if a good God and YHWH was a lesser God that screwed up his creation, humankind. On the Mindshift channel, he did a show where he listed the verses that show Jesus not being compassionate and treating a non Jewish woman like dirt.

[@itkirk]

I'm an atheist and I like to listen to "The Holy Post" with Phil Vischer, Skye Jethani and David French and I like to listen to their perspectives on the church and society today. They're actually reasonable and tend to deconstruct their beliefs and why they believe it. They had a discussion on abortion and how the bible addresses it and the previous philosophies on when life begins and they had an honest discussion on how it's been very different throughout the ages, which was refreshing. I think everyone on "The Holy Post" are actually people who have a strong faith, but always advocate for a pluralistic society with others that don't because that's fine to them.

[@thunderbird3694]

They cannot agree on who is Christian because they aren't wearing kilts

[@RichWoods23]

Look, clearly you're not aware that the wearing of kilts is optional. Trews are quite acceptable. But bagpipes, now that's where there's no grey areas. Specifically you need the great pipes, none of your recently adopted uilleann pipes or the like.

[@tulpas93]

🎉😂🎉

[@thelordakira]

same with any religion.

[@fredriksundberg4624]

Exactly.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Differing methods of interpretation is probably the main culprit, differing methods which stem from our checkered history. I think scholarship, using the historical-critical method of interpreting the Bible, will find more agreement amongst themselves than differing denominations. All while at least basing their opinions on historical fact rather than tradition and blind trust to clerical authority. Perhaps Christians will adopt this exegetical hermeunetic.

[@jerometaperman7102]

I would say that they can't agree because there is no ultimate authority to rely on. It's just a story so everyone can interpret it as they please.

[@raydunn8262]

Thank you, great discussions and guests. Much of what you discussed of what cult faiths preach and act. 1. Mainstream Christian denomations, including Catholicism are so much different than the Christianity in your discussions. a) I agree peoples' denominations is similar to how Jews feel their faith for decades. Their relgion is more like a heritage, where one belongs. b) Not too many of MCD followers are Christian Nationalists. Those who went with the Born Again and Evangelism/Pentacostal movements more often to be white nationalists. 2. Paul was a discipline, not an apostle. He started hanging around after Christ ascended into Heaven. Apostles are only the 12 before Jesus died. Afterwards, they replaced to make 12, again.

[@Fearia6]

I live in Tulsa, and just did a job for kin of Billy Wheeler, what a small world.

[@Ozone280]

I've never met a "christian" who lives by the teachings of the mythical jesus of the bible. I've come to the conclusion that there aren't any true christians left.

[@DavidRichardson153]

In fairness, Christianity started from Peter, who denied Jesus, so... perhaps "true Christians" were never supposed to have accepted Jesus?

[@ObservantHistorian]

As I always say, show me the Christian who BEHAVES as though they really believe there's a god to hold them accountable in some after-life.

[@bubbercakes528]

I have 5 bibles in my home. Four of them are in my attic somewhere(2 still in the packaging they came in). The one I use is a bible with three translations and I use as a literary reference. 😊

[@jimscott9974]

Heresy -- any superstition but your own.

[@JimmyTuxTv]

Excellent podcast

[@God_gave_His_Son_for_you]

Truth seekers always must seek the truth no matter where it comes from, but not everyone is actually seeking truth.

[@kabivose]

The preamble only seems to go on forever. It's actually about 57 sec. You won't miss anything if you just skip straight there.

[@SmilingDeer-dt5sjk]

The only rule to keep is respect your fellow human and all livening things .

[@bobbart4198]

... MOST of the Christians that I know, believe in the " Hippy Jesus " model you describe early in the show ... these are very good people, but they don't want to here the stuff that came before ... they are strangely proud, however, of the Conan Jesus that will return as a sword-wielding lion, rather than the original lamb with a peace sign ...

[@Bloozguy]

Never forget....the bible is a book written by men, mostly ignorant sheep herders. So, whatever good can be found, is attributable to the people writing those ideas, that were born with higher levels of empathy than others. no god required here. Take the good...toss out the bad. We all know what being good to people entails, no bullshit required. The parable of the Good Samaritan is an very good example of how to have compassion on your fellow Homo Sapien. That comes from the minds of MEN, not god. We have brains..... let's use them for good.

[@Dustin_Bins]

@@Bloozguy Thank you for your wise comment, I was trying to find a way to respond, but your response was much kinder than what mine would have been (think of the concept of "We should know better by now") and you could see what kind of frustrated hot-headed take I would have given. Whether it's been 2,000 years or 700 years, I have very little patience for old arguments (which are USUALLY in the form of lies) and really, we SHOULD know better by now.

[@rikk319]

@@Dustin_Bins Every human born is another restart to the lessons of learning...or the ignorance of not learning, for that matter. "We" can't know better by now, because individual humans only live a matter of decades, and don't pass on their wisdom particularly well--we do through education, but that can be logical education or religious education, or any other number of ways we can learn facts or fallacies.

[@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh]

"He [Christ Jesus] shall come again to judge the living and the dead." That is in the Nicene Creed, to which one must accede to be considered a Christian.

[@rikk319]

@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh Who says?

[@katlinhenry6927]

Man you are hilarious; love your riffs lol

[@elvismansoncpa]

To see where Christians agree, look and listen to the featured music at denominational Church services, the stuff sung by the choir (who all read music) with piano or organ, optional bells and brass. The composers cannot use any theme which does not comport with all the major denominations, lest there be churches who won't buy the sheet music. So most of the Old Testament is out, as is anything which relates to civil rights, and anything where there is a Biblical contradiction. They are left with Jesus Is God, Died For Our Sins, Rose from the Dead, and Returning Any Day now.

[@jWRe-t1g]

the fact that members of a church i attended were in dispute over bible teachings so much that they split off and formed another church is one of the main reasons i left christianity.

[@RoguePhysicist]

Excellent "radio voice". Reminds me of Paul Harvey.

[@d.rabbit7276]

Trying to get 20 random christians to agree on the validity or the right version of christianity is like asking men who's the best boxer, the best sports car, or the greatest basketball player to play the game.

[@_S0me__0ne]

Seth Andrews, the Paul Harvey of the atheist community. 😊

[@LaszloBartha-c3f]

My favorite quote to show the change in Bible versions is from Deuteronomy 32. This verse shows the polytheistic roots of Christianity (separate entities: Most High /El ; children of god / gods/angels /son of Israel; the Lord /Yahweh): "When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the children of men, he set the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the children of God" (Dead Sea scrolls) "When the Most High[b] apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods;[c] 9 the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share". (NRSVA) "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.[b] 9 For the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance." (NIV) "The Most High God gave the nations their lands. He divided up the human race. He set up borders for the nations. He did it based on the number of the angels in his heavenly court. 9 The Lord’s people are his share. Jacob is the nation he has received. "

[@Dustin_Bins]

"I am like the Most High"

[@scottmoore7588]

Answer to the title of this video: because true christianity is whatever each christian thinks it is, which is why I don't listen to any of them.

[@wet-read]

Pretty much! It is all nonsense to me. Monstrous nonsense, in fact.

[@msarilyn7677]

Because that would mean that there was a true scottsman, thus the fallacy.

[@stan1027]

Look at what just happened in the United Methodist church!

[@cliftongaither6642]

what happened?

[@rhondah1587]

@@cliftongaither6642 They decided to allow gay and lesbian clergy, reversing their prior prohibition of such. Got to keep those tithes coming in.

[@cliftongaither6642]

@@rhondah1587 ok, thanks.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

​@cliftongaither6642 The united methodist church is splitting up because of their changing attitude towards the LGBTQ+ community. Does that makes them the disunited methodist church?

[@stan1027]

@@exceptionallyaverage3075 They are disunited, for sure. In fact, they are now two separate churches; The United Methodist Church, and the Global Methodist Church.

[@MatthewDeanIreland]

The easiest answer to the question is that there is no such thing as a true christian since the whole religion thing is based on bad assumptions and faulty reasoning which never works if the foundations of the reasoning are not based on reality.

[@DavidRichardson153]

Not to turn this into a different kind of channel (though there undoubtedly is some inevitable overlap), but we are talking about a bunch of people who believe, and sometimes fanatically so, in a supposedly all-knowing all-powerful perfect being who just cannot stick to anything that he says, not even for himself, and frequently, if not always, leaves his followers, including his own son (who apparently also believes himself to be his father), holding the bag as he gathers money and power solely for himself in order to set everything on fire in the end for a completely untenable final vanity project, only to now see that likely inadvertently, said followers have started leaving him hanging in return as they continue to claim to obey everything he says, and "everything" just so happens to always involve hating anyone and everyone who ain't them and committing acts of un-aliving of people (often including themselves). Oh yeah, and there is also a book that supposedly contains this being's "divine" word and commands, only to be found out that the being had no input at all in writing it, that it was entirely written by ghostwriters that we will probably never learn the real identities of, and that none of his followers - or himself, for that matter - ever read it. Why does all of this sound familiar? And why do my eyes keep panning towards the state of New York? Are my eyes trying to tell me something? 🤔

[@rikk319]

Remember that it says somewhere in the Bible that "Through God, all things are possible" and very close to this is the authoritarian mindset, which proclaims "all things are permissible". When you look at MAGA and evangelical types (usually the same people) and their denial of reality, you see this thinking in the flesh. Whatever makes them feel good/safe/protected is what they believe, reality be damned.

[@incrediblesloth85]

I own a nice bible from my grandfather. It was inherited after he died. As an atheist/apostate, it's nice to have a physical copy so I don't have to go online to toggle between apps when I'm pointing out the silliness from the evangelicals :) then again I also have like 10 different other high fantasy books and some horror novels but nothing is filled with more high fantasy and horror than the actual bible 😂

[@rikk319]

I'd prefer Tolkien's fantasy over the authors of the Bible fantasy, honestly.

[@incrediblesloth85]

@@rikk319 I mean, arguably that's more than fair. I'd rather deal with a Balrog than an evangelical christian

[@AGNOSTIC_incomprehensibleXIV]

46:13 Here's a problem with this terminology; if according to you an agnostic-atheist can believe there are no Gods, what do you call someone without opinion? Are they also an agnostic-atheist? Doesn’t seem to clarify much. Seems like the common usages of atheist and agnostic is superior.

[@rudihaufe271]

after listening to countless debates i learned that all the stories and tales of any religion from gilgamesh.sumeriens,bible,coran to scientology where written down by fallable humans..so i deceided to stay skeptic untill one of those guys show up or not...

[@hobs1466]

That's simple, because it's not a thing. Or more accurately, it is unique to each individual Christian.

[@centaur7607]

Great discussion, as always. David French is indeed pro life, though I honestly think he has slightly moderated on that issue, and wrote that he was not as happy about the overturn of Roe as he thought he would be, even though he worked for years as a Constitutional attorney to overturn it. His opinions have evolved on many issues and honestly seems to want to work with liberals to compromise rather than have Trump or Trump supporters in any political office. However, I haven't been reading his work since he went to the NYT since I don't have a subscription. Unfortunately I have to agree that I don't think God and Country will have any relevant impact on the election. I don't think French and others have any significant influence over evangelicals, and French has been widely criticized by that group.

[@Arkstromater]

All systems are meant to help people but corrupt leaders destroy them

[@craigsmith1443]

The answer to this can be found in may writings of the medieval Schoolmen and in John Henry Newman's _An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine_ (1878). You're rather late to the party, as they say.

[@marcomclaurin6713]

I'll give Christians and Scientists something to agree on in my video 'Begining of understanding ' In short I demonstrate transmutation by electrical process of genetically superior creatures My icon is a seraph kneeling for example

[@JJ-qo7th]

It's so funny that they voted on what was canon, and rather than falling in line the dissenters just went off and started their own church.

[@jackstanton2936]

"I think atheists tend to overstate the importance of belief" Dr Stroop hasn't spent much time in the bible belt. Yes, protestantism...huge portion of the US electorate.