Why China Remained Poor for Centuries

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[@visualeconomiken]

Unlimited data on your trip to China (international eSIM): bit.ly/HolaFly-VEKEN

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Y'all have done more than 100 videos on China since March 2020. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@michaelmayhem350]

Would have been funny if the video intro was "tldr: it's the PRC's fault thanks for watching" 😂😂

[@groundhalo]

He says 1973 when it's 1873

[@koleharriott5328]

10:50 the year 1973. George the third died 1820. Do you mean 1773 or 1793?

[@gorilladisco9108]

The teleprompter typist used small fonts. 😅

[@RFXZ67966]

This was one of the most egregious errors i've seen on a KZbin channel

[@kailee2166]

As a Chinese, I have to say, it's mostly cultural, political, and economical in my view, because the Confucian values that spread into Chinese society value hierarchy and rigidness, and dissuaded creative destruction that would have enabled innovation and ask if it could be done better. The political aspect was that every attempt by the QIng in the mid to late 19th century was hampered by the conservative officials (because they would be made irrelevant) such as by rejecting foreigners in their modernization efforts, leading to having to send Chinese overseas to learn which took years and was sometimes suspended when the conservatives did not like that the returnees had adopted western values. Economically because of Confucian values, taxes were not adjusted to market and domestic policy, but purposely kept low to act as a reverent ruler, leading to low government revenue already used for paying debts instead of new modernization expenses.

[@fortpark-wd9sx]

Regarding the problem of modernization, it was argued that one reason for the Qing Court's lack of interest in 1793 was internal geopolitics. A gradual controlled development, even if done carefully with little external disruption, could have shifted the economic center in a south-easterly direction, meaning the future of China would be along the Pearl River-Yangzi River coastal zone. This could adversely affect the money, power and status of the Manchu-Mongol elites and their support network. From known history, south-eastern Han Chinese were the population segement that were seen as the Qing Court as having the weakest sense of belonging to the Empire.

[@alfaeco15]

​@@fortpark-wd9sxI always wonder what would had happened if Qing dynasty had been Han instead of Manchu..

[@gorilladisco9108]

I believe it was isolationism. Japan broke out of their isolationism several decades earlier than China in the 19th century and they managed to catch up quickly with European countries while remaining under Confucian influence.

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@fortpark-wd9sx When you are at the height of your power, you tend to look down on others. That's what Qing in 18th century, that is USA today.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

It's worth noting WHY China opted for such stability - those two periods of high innovation on their graph were not empires, they were massive wars. China valued stability precisely because it knew just how terrible anarchy is. Indeed Europe experienced this too - Europe expended itself on internal wars for most of its history. Why did they reduce? Cos of the discovery of new places they could conquer instead, following the fall of Constantinople that forced them to look for new trade routes. And the discovery of the new world that followed from those voyages. In a way, the fall of the Byzantines was the catalyst for Europe.

[@rasfarengi]

You forget about the issue China had at the time during the Ming Dynasty. They had to worry far more about reinvasion by the remnants of the Yuan Dynasty (Mongols) that had fled to Mongolia but kept attacking China. So the focus of the Ming Dynasty was on Mongol invasions. There was also an issue with pirates from Japan sacking the coast like Vikings. So the Ming moved people away from the coasts (literally made them move inland). And Zheng He's name is pronounced Jhung Huhhh.

[@gorilladisco9108]

While Mongol was still a threat, it's not the fear of Mongol that let the Ming dynasty to isolate themselves. It was internal politics. The emperor who sent the expeditions was a usurper. Therefore, when the power was back to the rightful heir, the new emperor worked to suppress the supporters of the late emperor. Zheng He was one of them, and with that, his fleet. note: Japan pirates was later on, after the vacuum created from the self burning of Ming fleet.

[@agmuntianu]

Europe was pretty much in an open war with the Muslim sultanates to the east and south , for like 800 years, and still they thrived ...

[@doujinflip]

VisualEconomik really needs to spend the literally one minute to learn how to pronounce names correctly, or at least sound like they try. An apparent cold read is not only distracting but also hints at not actually researching the topic. Their Korean is even worse.

[@xila-man8249]

@@agmuntianu What do you mean by they "thrived"? Colonizing the rest of the world whilst Robbing them of their valuables?

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@doujinflip Right? I complained several times and they just don't care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@dliu115]

Alot of the Chinese intellectuals fled to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore

[@1wun1]

That's the same intellectuals/elite with bad ideas in the mainland?

[@louiswu6300]

how stupid you to say that. China has nuke, space station, j20, supper carriers, supper sonic missiles, Huawei.. not Taiwan Hong Kong or Singapore. even tiktok is in Beijing. reality is the one who has been defeated in civil war who flee to Taiwan.

[@ernestkj]

That's the current situation tho.. even HKers are fleeing to Singapore, Taiwan, Australia and UK recently..

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

This is a much more recent phenomenon than the period the video is talking about. The Song dynasty for instance was an intellectual high point for China.

[@1wun1]

If those same intellectuals fared better in those islands it means that the incentives weren't in the mainland.

[@bfolar9622]

Wait, did he just say that George III was around in 1973? I think he meant 1773... Editor, where are you?

[@shlomomarkman6374]

What is being a rich or poor country even mean before about 1830? Having more gold doesn't necessarily make the country richer as international trade was too limited to arbitrate the price of gold relative to local commodities. From the common person's perspectives being rich or poor usually translated to how many calories of food and grams of protein he could consume and if food was plentiful for a period then population would grow until calories became critical again (birth control is a recent invention). From the ruler's POV being rich was related to how big a palace could he build and how many mercs could he hire. This was related to the price of labor in his country (in gold or in food). Only the industrial revolution was a game changer and gave the modern meaning to to a countries wealth and it started in the UK.

[@egg174]

Why did AC/DC have record sales in China last year? Because the government declared a rockdown

[@williamgoo7621]

You speak the truth here, that the stagnation comes from the Han-led imperial dynasty, not the Manchurian-led non-Han Qing Dynasty. Many Han Chinese don't take responsibility for the stagnation of China which dated where back to Ming China, or as you have pointed out, even centuries before. They have to instead go blame the Manchurian led Qing Dynasty. Many Han Chinese don't know the principle that "An Empire can not be conquered from without until it is conquered from within." Probably, they think Chinese is already too advanced and no faults can come from their own. Time to take responsibility for their own failing.

[@fortpark-wd9sx]

I recalled as recent as the 1980s, the consensus, at least among Han Chinese HK-TW academics was that the Han Chinese bureaucrats played a role in failures. Not a coincidence the Han Chinese Qing Chancellor Li Hongzhang of the 19th century was generally seen in not-very-positive terms. He was viewed as a person who tried but did not really fully understand what he was doing. Then came the neo-cons which practically presented Manchus, Mongols, Uighurs and Tibetans as the good guys while Han Chinese were the bad guys. That prompted a defensive change in attitude.

[@gorilladisco9108]

I don't think Sui government exam in Confucian was the reason in stagnation. Europe themselves also used exam in Bible reading for their government official up until 19th century. What created the stagnation was the isolationism of Ming dynasty (and continued under Qing). Because of it, they missed one crucial event in the progress of science, that is The Enlightenment, which put emphasis on science method. While China's scientist were still grasping in the dark about the nature as late as end of 19th century, Europe started to stockpile knowledges about how nature works. After several centuries doing that, they managed to beat up Turkey and China, and reign supreme.

[@xinyiquan666]

no, ming dynasty fell was largely due to the natural disaster around end of ming era, yes, ming has other problems, but none of them are structral or cultural, the manhurian qing was the main reason china stop develop and fell fast, not because manchu is not han( largely they are, more than 75% of manchus are indeed han chinese), but it is their policy that hinder china from development in science and tech, because manchus do not know what science is, and they think every advancement in science will lead to fall of qing dynasty, even british came in china in early 18th century who wanted to sell more gears to qing court, qing refused

[@dliu115]

But the argument is very true, competition breeds ingenuity and innovation.

[@michaelajustin3443]

Then why did India fall behind. India was divided for centuries into various kingdoms competing with each other for dominance.

[@agmuntianu]

there is a sweet spot between anarchy and total control where innovation can happen

[@dliu115]

Lack of competition breeds complacency and stagnation, exactly what's going on in China and Russia

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@michaelajustin3443 India didn't fall behind, at least not initially. When the Europeans arrive in Indian Ocean, they were "welcomed" by cannon equipped ships. If I remember correctly from "Why Did Europe Conquer the World?" by Philip Hoffman, Indian kingdoms lacked the ability to raise taxes without inciting rebellion. European states on the other hand, has historical precedent that enable them to squeeze tax several times higher than any Indian kingdoms. While it would damage the economy on long term, it was enough to awe Indian kingdoms to use their services in conflict with neighboring kingdoms. It in turn gave the Europeans a foothold on the subcontinent. And the big break was when England was invited to help settle the dispute inside Mughal empire.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

It's worth noting WHY China opted for such stability - those two periods of high innovation on their graph were not empires, they were massive wars. China valued stability precisely because it knew just how terrible anarchy is. Indeed Europe experienced this too - Europe expended itself on internal wars for most of its history. Why did they reduce? Cos of the discovery of new places they could conquer instead, following the fall of Constantinople that forced them to look for new trade routes. And the discovery of the new world that followed from those voyages. In a way, the fall of the Byzantines was the catalyst for Europe.

[@darthutah6649]

7:06 This has interesting implications for the future. As anyone watching this video already knows, the US, Europe, Japan, SK, and China all have fertility rates below replacement level. Over time, this will decrease the size of the workforce and increase demand for healthcare and other services that the elderly make disproportionate use of. Western countries can solve this by allowing immigrants into their countries to fill in labor positions. Eastern countries hold very nativist attitudes, making this solution much more difficult. This forces them to turn towards automation. South Korea has the highest rate of tertiary education amongst 25-34 age group at 68%. China has a rate of 27% and rising fast (possibly too fast for its level of development).

[@bin.s.s.]

As a Chinese, I totally agree on what Yuval Harari has said in his book Sapiens: the scientific revolution was not in our CIR (collectively imagined realities. Only social sea changes (revolutions) can change that situation.

[@davidcoplan]

Formidable, Thanks for all the information

[@markusnyland7559]

pretty sure you said the wrong year regarding the trade agreement think 1793 sounds more correct. as the Opium War started in 1839 in response to China's refusal to trade with the British

[@bennruda11]

They meant 1773 not 1973

[@orderneo]

The concept of face will destroy them in cycles forever.

[@sydg9577]

Thanks!

[@historygeopoliticsen]

Zheng He, pronounced as Zang hee is kind of funny to hear, but great video nonetheles.

[@danilolabbate]

Key point to understand this "stagnation" is, it was NOT a stagnation at all - it was the norm. NOT innovating was the norm in the ancient world - including Europe. Keeping traditional methods and shunning new ideas was common place, whereas having innovative periods was the exception. The scientific revolution, on the other hand, was a profound mentality change in Europe (not all of Europe, just a few selected countries). Europe started innovating like never before, while the rest of the world saw no reason to do the same. When Europeans started dominating the world, that's when the rest of the world understood it was either modernize, or become an European colony.

[@dhuryodhankaurav8487]

Innovators and explorers should have a major say in society... When others take the helm of leadership in societies, they fall back. Good times give rise to non-essential priorities and other forces that take advantage to gain control. Similar things happened to the Islamic world as well.

[@zollen123]

I have never seen a truly technocratic society in human history.

[@fileleutheros2577]

In fact the Islamic world and the chinese indeed have similarities. The Chinese civilization was destroyed by the Mongols, as was the Islamic world of the near east. But the biggest catastrophe of the Muslim world was the Turks. What kind of innovation do you want when barbarians with a mongol like way of thinking rule. Even religion was affected as the religious thinking of the Abbasids was very different from the Turks.

[@caynebyron]

I don't think any King George was alive in 1973, lol

[@1wun1]

Interesting video but didn't everyone remain poor for centuries?

[@indonesiansasquatch4926]

I love you guys but the production on this video is atrocious. A Chinese emperor sending a letter about trade in 1973? Also the editing errors, repeating yourself.

[@slamca]

The Song dynasty had great inventions, such as movable type printing, which was invented by Bi Sheng.

[@arthurscott509]

One of the things about European languages is that they are easy to typeset and publish compared to Chinese character based publishing. Sharing information was much faster and cheaper in Europe than CHina until the development of modern "Pinyin" Chinese for publishing.

[@bradygirt4028]

Why was China poor for centuries when they had been so great? The short answer is that the Chinese civilization was great and incredible whenever they stayed home and were able to stay free and under culturally Han self-rule. If you call the nation by dynasties, your capacity to understand the realities will be difficult. The word dynasties is applied to all in an effort to pretend that they have been one contiguous society. Only actual Chinese self-rule should be called "dynasty". In this way you can see that under self-rule China lasted from 2200 BC until 1279 AD and reestablished again from 1369 and 1644; that's all, Han-culture never again assembled a true Chinese nation after that until today.. The name China comes from the great "Qin" period which essentially earned those who would come to be called the Han-ethnicity distinction as a historic super-power/mega culture (771 B.C.-206 B.C.). Roughly 1279-1369 was not a Chinese dynasty or correctly termed a dynasty at all. The entire region was ruled as a part of the Mongolian Empire. That “nation” was not China, It was literally part of Mongolia. With the demise of the Mongols, the Han-Chinese culture sprung to life, again, in their homelands only, under their own self-rule between 1369 and 1644. We need to be very clear that “China” (the land of the Han) is far different than the construct created by the Russian and Chinese communists between about 1944 and 1954, which gave us the map of today’s so called “Peoples Republic of China”. Historic China (China proper) is the land East-of and not including Tibet, North-of and not including the Yunnan mountainous region, East-of and not including the Taklamakan desert, and South-of Mongolia and Manchuria and extending to the Ocean on the East. It was the lowland canyon outflows and deltas which were made fertile in receiving the outflow of highlands and mountainous regions to the West and North and South. This is why it was and is a very special land, and a diverse but universally fertile landscape capable of nurturing vast numbers and density of people. “China proper” and Han self-rule is magnitudes smaller geographically than the map of today. Of note: When the Han stayed within their own lands and self-ruled, they prospered. After the interlude absorbed into Mongolia under Genghis Khan’s rule, the Han-culture re-established their own nation from 1369 until 1644 after which they again lost their sovereignty. This is where the Manchurians come in. Manchurians are a Tungistic speaking Siberian people loosely related to the Mongols and in absolutely no way related to the Chinese. Eons earlier they had migrated South and East into the area surrounding Korean peninsula and that had been their homeland. Historically, Manchuria had never had a presence of Chinese people. In 1644 the Manchurians conquered China and established their Empire (the Manchurian Empire) which the Manchurians ruled with an iron fist from 1644 until 1908. This period was not a form of China, nor was it a dynasty per se. As with the Mongolian period, during this time the Han ethnicity (Chinese) and their native lands were ruled over by the Manchurians. It was not China as a nation or as a dynasty. Though it was not as bad of rule for the Chinese as Great Britain's was for the Irish, the context is similar. To their credit the beaten down once great culture banded together and were able with the help of the West via “the great game”, to achieve independence in 1908 and in so doing to mostly topple the overstretched Manchurians. This enabled new additions to the Empire such as Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia and other ethnic nations to also gain their independence again which generally held until about 1950 when the Russian Han communists colluded to destroy the governments and take over all the nations in between them and divvy them to one or the other. Restating the communist takeover: As we said, Han-Chinese cultural freedom of the early 1900's was short lived. The united front of then Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Empire (misleadingly called a “republic”) with Mao Zedong, the ethnic Han leader of the East-Asian regional communists called their Southeastern result the equivalent of “People’s Republic of China”. It was a Han-communist empire, just as the “Soviet Socialist Republic” was a Russian-Communist Empire. They were ethnically driven experiments in the use of vast nations of people to serve the interests and political experiments of each of the two ethnicities with an artificial cultural overlay of each’s distinct communist cultural construct. In this way, the USSR not only undermined the cultures of the hundreds of ethnicities they were forcibly oppressing, they also undermined the historic Russian culture itself. Similarly Chairman Mao’s policies not only undermined the cultures of the hundreds of ethnicities they were also forcibly oppressing; his policies, because of the imposed communist overlay also denatured and destroyed much of the beautiful ancient Han-(Chinese) culture, causing what can be described as poverty in the midst of plenty. Understanding that the Dynasties of China existed from 2200 BC until 1271 AD, and the final one from 1369-1644 will help us understand the true and actual historical backdrop of the region we now call China. The Chinese were generally prosperous under self-rule when they stuck to their own lands and their own people,. During those periods that their map was their own lands only, they were not poor culturally or materially. Rather, they were the envy of the so called great societies of the world. Han-China 2200 BC-1271 AD and 1369-1644 AD was good for them and their neighbors; Han-Communist China (imposition of an artificial culture and experimental societal methods) ... not so much. Today, Han-culture does not have self rule, while the Han-ethnicity subjugates and achieves their ends off the backs of many unwilling millions. Today the nation they rule is a communist-Han-imperial experiment that they manage to still keep alive. It is similar to Europe in the age of empire, and also similar to the current Russian empire (deceptively called the Russian Federation). The vast lands East of Moscow are not Russia, they are the subject-lands of the Russian and the people, land, and resources are used overtly for ethnic-Russian benefit. What we call China today is actually a vast empire being exploited by the people of the much smaller and deeply historic region of "China-proper" where most Han-peoples still live.

[@slamca]

Portuguese, Spanairds, French, and Dutch did not start the industrial revolution either. That's another billion-dollar question.

[@charleshart2664]

In 1776 when the world's economy was agrarian, China was the richest country with a GDP of 35%, whereas the newly- formed USA was zero. Unfortunately for China, it missed the Industrial Revolution beginning in Britain, and for 150 years suffered humiliation: the two Opium Wars of 1840 and 1860, and the invasion of Japan in the 20th century. Now, since Deng Xiaoping's famous speech of 1982, persuading the party to accept capitalism with Chinese tricks, the founder of modern China has been rewarded by making his country the second richest in the world.

[@1wun1]

Being a very closed society didn't help China, without that they'd have been aware of their own weaknesses.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@1wun1 Initial Chinese isolationism was a result of internal and external threats. Internally the emperor who sent Zheng He out on his famous voyages was a usurper. After he was overthrown the new emperor pushed to root out all of his support, including Zheng He. Externally China was traumatized by the former Yuan dynasty i.e. the Mongols, who had been overthrown but were still a threat from the north. So their focus was directed there rather than outward.

[@bradygirt4028]

I don't think you went deep enough, since this is about historic China. The historic and venerable China was a dynastic Han-civilization that lasted from 2200 B.C. to 1644 A.D., aside from an interlude where they were a part of Mongolia in the 1300's. As linked to the incredible history of the Han, their long standing civilization ended for good in 1644. Since we have literally never seen a Han-self-ruled state since. Perhaps this is more about Asia in general and not about the Han (the only literal Chinese)? Or perhaps it is about the Manchurian Empire 1644-1908 (not Chinese in any shape or form)? Or the chaotic period (1908-1944)... or the Communist period, 1950-present... none of which are actually linked to the Chinese society of history...Though Mao was Han, the CCP is clearly not and never claimed to be a continuation of China. China lasted from 2200 B.C. to 1644 A.D. Today is the CCP, a play on the old in word alone.

[@Voxabonable]

When you think you know China by sitting in a room somewhere reading google translated stuff.

[@n5017858]

I’ve been studying Chinese since 1995 and I haven’t given much thought to when China was advancing its quickest. You make good points. China shines when it’s stable yet divided. Tang and Song dynasties, good examples. China is shining today as Singapore and Taiwan are Chinese civilisation competitors. HK was however that got stomped on

[@zsarimaxim692]

Huh? Chinese golden age were during the Han and Tang dynasty, neither was divided. War always ensue when the country was divided.

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@zsarimaxim692 The videos didn't talk about power of China, but the science progress in China.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Easy to say, but it's worth noting WHY China opted for such stability - those two periods of high innovation on their graph were not empires, they were massive wars. China valued stability precisely because it knew just how terrible anarchy is. Indeed Europe experienced this too - Europe expended itself on internal wars for most of its history. Why did they reduce? Cos of the discovery of new places they could conquer instead, after the fall of Constantinople forced them to look for new trade routes. And the discovery of the new world that followed from those voyages. The fall of the Byzantines was the catalyst for Europe.

[@nillinx1234]

More than a 1/3 of the video is just intro and ads, wow, times have changed huh?

[@MichaelWilliamz]

It’s amazing what people do to other people for power

[@ismailnyeyusof3520]

I thought this was a great, thought provoking episode from Visual Politics. China’s fundamental problem is really their self imposed bureaucratic policies that only the industriousness of its own people allow it to have a big economy. However, this economy is hugely dependent upon progress being made in other countries where China has sent their people to learn more about innovation. If left to themselves, without progress in foreign countries, China will stagnate, no doubt about it. Today, the CCP’s dream of conquering Taiwan is just their bureaucracy trying to expand its reach to a part of China that’s resisting being under its suffocating control. If Taiwan comes under the bureaucratic control of the CCP, the dynamic economy of Taiwan will erode and the reunited China will become increasingly weakened. China actually needs more competition, not less, to progress but ultimately it’s up to the people of China to demand that the yoke of bureaucracy be thrown off.

[@WingkKong]

This is the demand of all the Chinese people They demand taiwan become part of China The Chinese government has no choice

[@robertofernandez7773]

China still poor today. Some cities are rich, but the dichotomy between tier 1 cities and the rest of the country is inmense. It gives an illusion of prosperity that doesn't exist. One of My siblings is married to a Chinese, her family is from a decent area in china, and they say it's atrocious, mind you the poorer parts. Every time you look at china is shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing, showing the skyscrapers at night, a lot of the country barely have to eat, no sewage in many places, no drinking clean water, pollution in air, food and water. I don't know any rich country in the 21st century with these basic issues. Propaganda is everywhere. When you only see good things about a place online, always think to good to be true.

[@Corsuwey]

The Chinese emperor that ordered the burning of the ships purportedly had several bad dreams about them and asked a dream analyst what it could mean... The answer is what lead to him burning the ships.

[@binhe6500]

It’s just that society has cycles. All the reasons you mentioned still exist today and yet China has come back to prosperity. The same reason works both ways. A big unified country is a big unified marketplace. That’s also why the United States is stronger than Europe. Political stability provides ground for peaceful economic development. And it turns out political ideology has nothing to do with technological and scientific development. They use different parts of the human brain.

[@euerz]

10:46 verbal "typo" since there was no emperor anymore in the 1970s. He might have meant 1870s, but I don't have the energy to look it up and fact-check myself rn.

[@zajnat9747]

Intermittent music too loud.

[@kennmossman8701]

NOT SURE WHY YOU SAID MATH WAS ADANNCED......ANCIENTS TEXTS WERE DISPLAYED LITTLE KNOWLEDGE. IN FACT THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT A GOOD DEAL WAS TAEN FROM DEVELOPMENTS IN THE MIDDKE EAST AND GREECE

[@gorilladisco9108]

Why are you yelling?

[@larryc1616]

🤫

[@tomsewell2462]

making an average of $300 usd a month doesn't seem like wealth to me.

[@gorilladisco9108]

Depending on which year, I guess.

[@zl4384]

是地理

[@LewisSkinner]

George III ruled Britain 1760-1820. I assume that date should be 1773? Can you add a correction?

[@_B_B_B]

The main problem in China is the monarchical system of government. The lack of political competition and the absence of strong neighbors made possible “endless” stagnation. The rulers of China did not need to change anything. If China had become a federal republic somewhere around the 15 - 16th century, with elected government, then we would have seen a completely different China.

[@WingkKong]

It is impossible Chinese will fight to control of all China

[@gorilladisco9108]

You understand that Europe at the time also monarchies, right?

[@_B_B_B]

@@gorilladisco9108 European monarchies have always had competitors next to them. Those that began to stagnate quickly lost territory and influence. All of Europe, in size and population at that time, was similar to China. The European monarch is like the governor of the Chinese province. But the Chinese provinces did not particularly fight or compete with each other. Also, China did not have serious enemies on its borders. The most dangerous were the nomads in the north. Nomads became dangerous when another dynasty fell into decline, corruption and nepotism. Until that moment, there were only much weaker states around China.

[@doujinflip]

Autocracy rules over a brittle society, one whose people would either stand by or run away rather than help defend the state when attacked because of the lack of investment in the politics. But this is the norm for China, as a Chinese ethnostate has never seen anything but top-down impunity until Taiwan democratized at the end of the Cold War. Mainland China however doubles down on its aristocracy (in this case a Party instead of an imperial family), and risks the same violent chaotic popping of its insular political bubble that befell every dynasty before it.

[@WingkKong]

@@doujinflip democracy does not guarantee anything look at Ukraine Also Taiwan economy is perform poorly Russia is also democracy but it is still have conflict with the Western power

[@louisphillipson2585]

not 1973 but presumably 1773 trade deal rejected 10:50

[@margaretjones777]

A fascinating video which may or may not have identified the reasons for China's spectacular failure over the last 1000 years. But in essence the problem seems to been caused by having an unelected and centralized leadership, dominated by the group-think of "professional experts", all of whom had been brainwashed into enforcing a narrow and self-serving world-view, whilst simultaneously seeking to suppress and delegitimize any dissenting voices. All of which brings us to the current state of the mainstream political establishment in Europe and America...

[@kl9518]

British opium wars?

[@ElGrandoCaymano]

Is getting into Harvard hard? No, not if you're a legacy and your father has donated. 😛

[@footballocks4063]

Definitely wasn't 1973 was it?😂

[@Vali45854]

Dosent china was one of the richest country for centuries or millenial?

[@masterchinese28]

1973, eh? Even the last emperor had died by then and the Qing Dynasty had been overthrown in 1911, so....

[@sirfer6969]

Ok, ffs, we get it, the presenter made an obvious mistake. Adjust, correct and move on, we don't need 400 commenters saying the same thing

[@megstlimlim3386]

Wow, love to listen to these very intelligent review of Modern China 🇨🇳 🥰😍🤩 since the humiliation of foreign colonialism of Manchu Qing Dynasty 😮

[@jorehir]

0:52 Low level misrepresentation, which i don't expect from this channel. Someone with limited knowledge would be led to believe that Europe couldn't keep up with China... Truth is that Europe has nearly always been at the leading edge. Since Classical times and except for the early middle-ages, European mathematicians were basically unrivaled. Same goes for most fields, with Asian countries occasionally taking the leads here and there.

[@gorilladisco9108]

Europe didn't progress fast in science until The Enlightenment. Before that, Europe was just another region of the world with petty monarchs squabbled with each other. After the fall of Rome, the science progress of western Eurasia was kept by Middle East. The Enlightenment was what enabled Europe to progress fast, catch up, and finally left Middle East and China in dust.

[@jorehir]

@@gorilladisco9108 You're the living proof the harm caused by such misrepresentations. Some hard data: around the year 1450, GDP per capita of Western Europe was about $2000, with Italy leading at >$3000. Meanwhile, China was barely around $1500. (source: Maddison Project). Mind that i picked the most favorable period for China, aside from the European Dark Ages. Mind that architectural marvels like Notre Dame were being built already in 12th century Europe...

[@EAcapuccino]

My guess : Colonialism by the major powers of europe, then japanese occupation until the end of WWII Mao Zedong (Chairman Mao) may have been a mass murdering dictator like Joseph Stalin. BUT there's no denying he and his successor (Den Ziaoping) forever changed China 🇨🇳

[@dontcomply3976]

Wrong! See university is a complete waste of time and money

[@jimmysusanto6582]

2022,China GDP per capita 12000usd, 2023,13000usd, by the 2030, it will be figure 25000usd

[@will1122]

fair amount of errors in this video

[@gorilladisco9108]

Most glaringly is how they spell Chinese names.

[@sirfer6969]

@@gorilladisco9108 **facepalm**

[@nnkk7742]

Was this video edited to get past ccp censors?

[@philsophkenny]

😮

[@LeoN-wc9od]

Politics duh

[@kutsop]

Opium wars???

[@sH-ed5yf]

Doesnt explain why China Was so poor in the centuries before thst

[@kl9518]

​@sH-ed5yf China and India weren't poor before the opium wars. The architecture proves. The aggression of Europeans imperialism made the global south poor.

[@gorilladisco9108]

Sui dynasty didn't cause the stagnation in science and technology in China. Sui dynasty was the start of China healing after the several centuries of chaos following the end of the Han dynasty. They were taken over by Tang dynasty shortly after. The Sui reigned just three decades, and a third of that was in another chaos before Tang took over. As short lived as they were, one of the celebrated innovation during Sui dynasty was the building of Grand Canal that increased domestic trade among China's cities (it was build to pile resources in preparation to invade Korea, but well ...). And also, why would science had to be requirement for government officials? Their job is to administer the country resources. So the ability to read and write were the only requirement considering the level of education during that time. Some of them might dabbled in science in their leisure times, but science was not a requirement for their post. For comparison, Europe also didn't require science for government official posts. Their requirement was limited to ... ability to read the Bible (instead of Confucian). Scientists like Newton, Kelvin, Faraday, etc. were given subsidies to enable them to conduct experiments, but they didn't have any power in government. What make the difference between China and Europe was isolationism and because of it, China missed the crucial event that enabled Europe to catch up and finally leave China in dust : The Enlightenment.

[@Superslemmet]

"1973"? You really should have reacted to what you said there, since you have to know that there was no Emperor around in China in 1973.

[@itsthatoneguy2921]

He speaks too much with his hands... It's almost like his hands have tourette's

[@RuiJiang-d7i]

the western world hasn't made more than a billion people wealthy either. Size matters. If you talk about the richest quarter of Chinese, you can call them wealthy now already.

[@franklind8569]

"Promosm"

[@xila-man8249]

I love how you never mentioned the Century of Humiliation... Great Western Journalism 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@ankundamwebembezi6358]

The century of humiliation was the consequence for china failing to catch up with the rest of the major powers of the time

[@mileristic2084]

PRC-CHINA mobile telefon compyter company Xiaomi, Hyawei, Lenovo , Utok ... Chinese cars indystry, Chinese military complex, Chinese SPACE indystry, PRC-CHINESE investment around the world new silk roads and railways and in China investment in bildings sector, investment in mining around the world, China 5G network around the world, investment on Chinese World GPS satelites - Beijing network, network on Chinese military kwants satelites, Chinese agrocurtural project transformation desert on 5 wave in agricutural land witdh minimal use of water etc ...

[@Tewhill357]

Grow it out or shave it. One or the other.

[@theprestigerklopt5085]

His beard is fine man

[@faraibee]

China is complex not like how MAGAists or communists want to put it

[@theprestigerklopt5085]

What is 'MAGAists'?

[@muhammadubaid7030]

​@@theprestigerklopt5085 😂 even i who's not American and lives in karachi knows and you don't

[@cryptotimes1583]

West innovation built on slavery and oppression. Anicent Chinese had different view came to Africa Chinese started families and become one with local population. Still tribe today in Tanzania/Kenya that have Chinese admixture from Zheng He encounter.Most important fact is culture and how Anicent Chinese saw other people's. Irrelevant anyway world going Chinese either way.

[@gorilladisco9108]

Public school indoctrination flows strong in you.

[@cryptotimes1583]

@@gorilladisco9108 Your inability to make counter point says alot. You resort to making personal remarks.

[@BeelP.]

You love to talk about China because you find negative topics to focus on. Even as you praise China's inventiveness throughout history, you switch to highlighting its lack of scientific progress such as microscopes, electricity.

[@sirfer6969]

Electricity was probably the most important technological development in human history, that's quite the something to miss out on.

[@YoheYamatai]

10:49 1973 ?! The world sur is full of surprises 😮... Just joking 😂

[@soup100]

in a nutshell: China didn't colonize the way Europeans did.

[@larryc1616]

And no slavery

[@phyarth8082]

Leo Tolstoy - 'History would be a wonderful thing - if it were only true. Cartagena, Egypr, Rome, Persia, Greece had biggest and much much better ships that Dutch, Spain or Portuguese galleys but over 3000 years from AD to 700BC could not found America and Australia continents. Jehtro Tull plowing and clock seeding mechanism first Agricultural revolution and explosion of population in west Europe. At that time China was 10 times bigger, technological level shows how much person can feed mouth not opposite first agricultural revolution before industrial revolution started shows that China paddies is 10 times more effective than iron Jethro Tull plow with clock mechanism for seeding . Chinese dismantling own navy is nonsense, China never had big fleet, reaching Japan Korea yes but historian tell story about some decision what dismantled fleet is nonsense, because same as ancient Cartagena, Egypt, Persia, Greek-Rome not existed same and ancient China not existed. You can buy Ming dynasty china (porcelain) for 5 million dollars made in Holland but certificate from official Sotheby experts will say it is real Ming dynasty porcelain. It is nonsense many things been discovered Silk worm is not Chinese plus china is Eurasia, same to horses was not brought from Europe they are Eurasia continent animal. Chinese mandarin meritocracy where knowledge and individual talent is more important than blood. English loves Indian caste system blood of aristocrat is more important than ability to be captain. Comedia opera H.M.S. Pinafore; or, The Lass That Loved a Sailor who cares that son of admiral can not read compass vice-captain or bootsman can read most important he got job because he is have blue thin line. That reference to Peele first person who created Britain police was related birth blood with Queen Victoria - Blue Thin Line. China doom is inevitable because it disregarded meritocracy system and adapted only numbers Chinese statistics is 250 times more inflated because British system operates only in number. Parkinson's law is the observation that the duration of[clarification needed] public administration, bureaucracy and officialdom expands to fill its allotted time span, regardless of the amount of work to be done. This was attributed mainly to two factors: that officials want subordinates, not rivals, and that officials make work for each other. British India empire fall when officer had 17 subordinates underneath. Is no creativity in such system. meritocracy can be faked for example Ivy league where you can buy prestigious diploma (coug couh Jared Kushner). At least King loss in independent war showed that dependency on blood relations can lead to tyranny (taxation without any representation). USA first universities where all people can try enter. After 150 it became elitist prestigious rich kids university but, all institutions becomes corrupts in long run. Vatican first 100 years was not corrupts as we know today with numerous financial and sexual scandals. China will fail same as Soviet collapse when political party increase 3 million political members. All empires fall, British, Soviet, Chinese.

[@fortpark-wd9sx]

All empires fall, including the USA?🙄🙄

[@phyarth8082]

@@fortpark-wd9sx USA is about trade, their strategy Levization, cocacolaziation, Marlborization, Hoolwoodization, Starbucsziation. More "soft power" than hard power" military keeping nations under military boot. People say that Iraq war about oil but fracking was already developed technology and today USA biggest oil producer, Iraq war was too keep fighting spirit of nation using Iraq as weapons' testing polygon and keep weapons corporations happy, thus again about trade. End of the World will be caused due to trade, because to keep global trade going requires a lot of energy release into atmosphere and oceans can not absorb all energy forever. Glaciers will start melt.

[@gorilladisco9108]

You should put a limit on how many words your AI is allowed to produce.

[@phyarth8082]

@@gorilladisco9108 I am reincarnation of James Joyce my Odyssey "Ulysses" stream of consciousness is limitless :)

[@bl5608]

China has 1.4 billion people and huge backyard. No country every managed over a billion people. The mass population and size of China is equivalent to the whole Europe, Africa and ASEAN. India is the only country that is similar in terms of size, population, history and culture. The result is obvious, China is in a much better position than India. China GDP per capita is still low. Japan , germany, US , Taiwan , SK , HK, Singapore and most west European countries on average per person still has more money in the bank than china. Even if China GDP 0% growth, it will still be no 2 economy, gdp per capita will grow faster than 99% countries.

[@gorilladisco9108]

Tian An Men, 4th June 1989. Winnie the Pooh. Letter "N".

[@lujiang2390]

European countries! reason why other third world countries are poor.

[@Joel86543]

Hey Singapore was also a colony but look at it now. US also was a colony. Most of excolonies are mostly very corrupt and unstable that is the reason they are poor not Europe. Decades are more than enough to develop a country from scratch. South Korea is a great example

[@1wun1]

​@@Joel86543 South Korea is not a good example, Singapore, China and Japan are. Because South Korea started as a subsidy to beat the North.

[@Joel86543]

@@1wun1 my point is that it can be done because the guy above puts all the blame in europeans. But yes you can use China as a great example

[@1wun1]

@@Joel86543 I got your point

[@gorilladisco9108]

Ah yes, the "blame others" school of thought.