Why Churches Should STOP Using Hillsong, Bethel, and Elevation Worship Music

[@lionoffireraw]

I can understand how people appeal to Romans 14, for the style/genre of worship music. But I would argue that this is different. I would appeal to 1 Corinthians 8, in regards to dealing with defiling the conscience of believers. There is no good reason to play songs from these problematic groups in churches today. In fact there are many reasons NOT to. In this video, I list five reasons why. It would be great to see churches standing up against these groups that are from false (and even heretical) churches, and instead, supporting other groups, which are biblically solid!

[@dannysmith9009]

U can hear Delilah singing these songs to Samson stroking his hair... All the while thinking to herself not saying.."go to sleep U sheep"

[@ellisonhamilton3322]

Return to the old hymnals. There is a wonderful wealth of scripturally sound and inspiring, beautiful music there. Music that is truly worshipful.

[@tomy8339]

My previous church sang nothing but old hymns. Some of the better known hymns are magnificent. But there's also a stack that are unbelievably drab and dull musically. And some hymns don't have great lyrics and themes at all. This is a myth that all hymns are theologically sound. I've always said that church music should be a mixture between good contemporary Christian music and hymns. But both need to be discerned. Some hymns are terrible musically and lyrically as some contemporary songs. Pick and choose between the two.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

If you’re going to go back to the olden days don’t hold back. Go back to Gregorian chants.

[@altasadventures1139]

@@AngelaVEdwards Yep.

[@SamuelLee-gw6wr]

We also do the same in my church but we often throw in contemporary songs in youth, mainly Chinese songs from the last 40 years which are spiritually sound. A newer one was 如此認識我 (You really know me) by the Heralders, talking about how God knows us and provides the best for us no matter how we are.

[@JackN808]

Thank you. "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" Any church using these false teachers music, is in fellowship with darkness. Flee these churches. . 🙏🙏🙏

[@cblackink]

Amen. Agree.

[@germanwulf40]

The prosperity gospel always makes me sigh, at least inwardly. Sure, it sounds great, because it teaches that we can have all we've ever wanted, but the Bible teaches the exact opposite! Jesus warned us how difficult of a life we could end up having here on earth for our faithfulness to Him, and that sometimes, our only comfort is our heavenly reward that awaits us the afterlife.

[@matthewhastie7673]

Truth ❤

[@artistchristos]

The Pentecostal church I left six months ago had the worship team lead repetitive words in songs that went on and on and made me sick. The husband and wife pastors told us how much they loved visiting Hillsong, plus they played clips from the Chosen and I hated that too. Their doctrine included prosperity worship and the things they preached about as well as the childishness of the pastors made me leave in disgust.

[@nigej9118]

Sorry to hear that. The angels in heaven repetitively sing Holy, holy, holy.

[@artistchristos]

@@nigej9118 The repetitive words were copied from Hillsong, or whatever other church,to work people into a trance, not to actually worship God. Saying Jesus fifty times to music is stupid.

[@toddgreve6587]

Glad you left! Their major sin is the "co-pastors" leadership, having a woman ordained and wrongly given the title.

[@Ms.noelp453]

You are very discerning to leave that church. I hope that you will find a church that preaches the Word and worships appropriately ✝️🕊️

[@snowwhitehair485]

Whatever happened to the 'Redemption Hymnal'?:- the mainstay of Pentecostal church musical worship. I hate standing for half-hour sessions of long, drawn-out, repetitive worship songs in any church whilst among people induced into a trance waving their hands in the air. The traditional hymns lasted about 5 minutes, were written in rhyming verses and for variety, each contained differing aspects of evangelical spirituality. This was all done for good reason. A good tune with four-part harmony helped too. Oh, what have we lost?!

[@finngenuity8076]

The very reason I resigned from the praise team on Sunday mornings.... I could not deal with the leader ignoring what is wrong with these groups...

[@altasadventures1139]

I presume you’re including songs from Luther (Jew hater), john newton (uh oh, he was a calvinist, oh the horror!), and let’s not forget, “Come thou font” (Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, prone to leave the God I love) He was a devout man, wandered from God terribly - look up the story, it is fantastic! Had the congregations of the time tossed out the baby with the bath water, Robert Robinson may never have returned to Christ and I may have never been so blessed to sing his gracious, contemptuous, beautiful, expositive song bringing me closer to the God I love! People on praise teams are generally sinners…. that’s why they’re there. Song writers are sinners, that’s why they’re there. Give a little Grace and get back to the Lord’s work - Go sing!

[@finngenuity8076]

@altasadventures1139 consider that the songs you are talking about are PUBLIC DOMAIN.... No one is making a dime from those songs, therefore, not funding the not so squeaky clean organizations... No one is perfect, but WOKE (willfully overlooking known evil) makes me just as guilty as they are.

[@toddgreve6587]

As a recently retired music minister, when I did CCM in worship, each church had a CCLI (Christian Copyright Licensing Inc.)'license to project or print the music, lyrics. Each year, I had to submit a report of which songs were "performed" in worship during a specified quarter. The fee paid, to protect a church from copyright violation, after admin fees, the remaining is divided up between those songs used. In essence, one is financially supporting these false churches!!! Once I learned the truth, I deleted these songs from the repertoire I was using! How many of you know that Bill Johnson ("pastor" of Bethel) is a member of the music board of directors and gets paid an additional $25 million per year!? Think about it...

[@JRJackman-qs8ph]

Thank you for sharing this. I’m horrified.

[@marisa5359]

Not a bit surprised, sadly. Thank you for taking that hard but necessary step.

[@Ms.noelp453]

Very interesting 🤔

[@catherinemclernon2550]

Luke 16:13 Matthew 6:22

[@JRJackman-qs8ph]

@@catherinemclernon2550 yes! In fact Matthew 16: 19-24 says it all.

[@neortik7]

We need more discernment than ever we all need to ask Discernment to God

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Gotquestions, a website that is biblically sound and is steeped in the Word of God that I’ve used for years and completely trust says that Hillsong is a biblically solid church with a couple of minor differences from many other churches. What part of this “discernment” that you’re talking about are they missing?

[@evasccl7846]

Hi Matt! Thank you for making this video, I found it very refreshing and insightful. I have so much to say about this... I join you in the goal being to protect the people, listeners from teachings that confuse and lead people astray. God is not a God of confusion but truth and this needs be shared in love, for love rejoices in truth! This thought brings to mind the practice of the Brethren in Berea, when they would check if what Paul preached, agreed with God's word.. and churches back then would increase not only in number but in spiritual maturity. We need to do this today, everyday and pray seeking the truth that can only be found in God's word. I agree with all the points you shared, I am happy you did because I now have words to some I did not know before, whilst I knew something was not right. Thank you. Two of the main reasons i have heard in various churches as to why they gravitate towards such and similar songs: 1- The music being more upbeat is found more uplifting for the congregation overall. 2- Churches have few youth and the youth there is, move to other churches where there is more youth because of the music ministry is used to attract young people to the faith (that is the intention). To retain their own youth, some churches promote and allow to have such songs in the hope to attract more youth. My understanding is that lyrics are the message shared and music the vehicle in which it is shared, therefore it is important that we remain faithful to the truth, God's word is powerful ❤Hebrews 4:12-13. I pray for us to be thirsty and hungry for truth and for the world to eagerly seek truth, seek Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life.

[@kspin996]

Great point about worship focusing on the emotional experience of the listener, rather than celebrating and magnifying the Lord. When I was newly saved, I went head first into the NAR and word of faith movement. It all seemed to be wonderful until a few years later, when I felt like despite my efforts, I was not having the supernatural experiences that others were. I cut off everything but an ESV bible with no footnotes. These ideas are poisonous because they sound enough like truth to new believers who have not yet anchored themselves in the Word. Youth and zeal are great, but are not enough to withstand the schemes of the enemy. These word of faith churches attract new believers because they promise the power of the New Age movement, familiar ideas and practices (law of attraction, positive thinking) with the power of God behind them. It does not take much transformation to fit into a "church" like this. It's comfortable for people to live the same way and slap a new "God" label on it. Like anything, we can bemoan the rise of evil or false teaching. Or, we can choose to embrace it as a refining fire, that people who recognize and/or survive the error will be doubling down in the Truth.

[@lionoffireraw]

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[@tg-xb3tc]

Sadly some people do not want to hear it.

[@toddgreve6587]

Even MORE sadly is that I've spoken with lead or music ministers who do these "songs" and argued AGAINST stop using these "songs!" Most are not aware that false churches say that they PURPOSEFULLY use music as a "hook" to attract outsiders to their false theology! Also, it's a great revenue source to keep the false organization solvent.

[@ianhosier4042]

Itching ears and lovers of money rather than lovers of God

[@BATTY3459]

Thank you, brother. I wholeheartedly agree. I’m in a church now that sings Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation. I spoke with the pastor about it and his general reasoning was as long as the lyrics of the song are doctrinally sound, it’s fine. I didn’t get into it too much with him, but it just seems so frustrating that so many mainstream evangelical churches play the same songs. I was going to a church before I moved that played 1 or 2 Bethel or Hillsong, but for the most part played Sovereign Grace, the Gettys, Cityalight and old hymns. It just seems like mainstream evangelicalism in general is against the theologically rich stuff, and prefers flashiness and shallowness, in the churches, on Christian radio, in Christian movies etc.

[@karendiane9154]

I miss the days when the churches had a choir and sing songs from hymn books.

[@sonjastingl7986]

😢

[@deborahfield521]

I grew up where I was part of the church choir and my mother was a soloist when she was a young girl growing up. I loved going to practice on Wednesday before night church and then singing and praising God on Sunday morning 🌄.

[@philfoster4298]

Lots of churches still do. How sad that you can’t find one. I picked an independent Baptist church because of the wonderful choir and music, three services a week (including Wednesday evening service), and scriptural based messages. The churches I’ve been to that have modern music are the most irreverent and disobedient I’ve attended.

[@Buttercup6745]

My church does

[@syrpentina]

Catholic churches still do

[@loriedwards2120]

We call them seven eleven songs, seven words repeated eleven times! These songs cannot compare to the hymns that our forefathers wrote from a deep experience with God. I love the scripture songs remembering how God told Moses to put the experience of God's leading to music. We have a musical mind that God gave each one. Blessings to you.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

In the mid 1970s when I was a child my family lived for a time in a Jesus People commune in Seattle. We sang scripture songs there. That's pretty much _all_ we sang. P.S. My husband hates that repeating the same line over and over in songs thing too. LOL

[@finngenuity8076]

you also have to be mindful of what publishing company owns the rights to these song. They have started using different company names that don't seem to be associated with the Hillsong, Bethel and the like. But, when you dig a little deeper, you find that the aforementioned entities actually owns these publishing companies. It is so important to DO YOUR DEEP RESEARCH on these things....

[@dcole2133]

A great music 🎶 alternative is Majestic Music a reverence and love for God beautifully done.

[@ThePaleface54]

I got so tired of a Church I attended that felt more like a rock concert than a true worship of the Lord. Found a Church that sticks to the old hymns and am much happier there. But I’ve yet to find the perfect Church; (and I’m not the perfect Christian); only the Lord is perfect.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Go back to Gregorian chants.

[@catherinemclernon2550]

@@AngelaVEdwards "Gregorian chants are a form of liturgical music used in the Roman Catholic Church to enhance the ritualistic aspects of a service. In Hinduism and Buddhism, chanting (often referred to as “japa”) is used to aid in meditation and to instill a sense of inner peace." In other words these are intended to produce an altered state of consciousness. They are not what the bible says to do. We are to keep control if our minds.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@catherinemclernon2550 I majored in music in college. Gregorian chants are a MAJOR portion of the history of Western Music. The Bible tells us to meditate. That produces an altered state of consciousness too so how can the Bible say TO do it and also say NOT TO do it?? That makes zero sense.

[@catherinemclernon2550]

Meditate in the bible is to focus on God's word. Totally different.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@catherinemclernon2550 You give zero evidence that it's different. Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. You can still alter your consciousness by focusing on God's word too. You do realize that we are frequently "hypnotized" every day right? Have you ever had the experience of driving your car, arriving at a destination, and not being able to fully remember what you saw all along the way? Have you been in the shower and found yourself mentally transported somewhere else for a few minutes? Have you lost track of what was happening in the environment around you because you were thinking about something else? All of these experiences are a form of hypnosis. We self-hypnotize ourselves multiple times throughout the day, but we don’t know it. Anytime we aren’t in full awareness of what’s going on, what we are thinking and experiencing and why, we are experiencing a form of self-hypnosis. Here is what the National Library of Medicine says about altered states of consciousness: Meditation can lead to an altered state of consciousness (ASC) by increasing awareness of mental and physical processes and blocking out external distractions. This can lead to increased alpha and theta brainwaves, which are associated with relaxed states of mind. Meditation can also allow higher brain regions, such as the frontal cortex, to control sensory impulses, which can help people ignore pain or noises. Your brain waves change every single time you go to sleep and every time you come up out of sleep. So is that non Biblical too? You are using fear mongering to try to get people to conform to a particular belief system.

[@Kim-js8jf]

Good points . I agree . I'm guilty of liking a few songs, but your absolutely right. By listening, I am supporting them. Connections are a serious matter ❤️🙏👍👍

[@steve3416]

I enjoyed the video. I appreciate the confirmation of what I've always believed about the music. I had even done the same type of research on that type of music and always felt something wasn't right. I agree that it just hooks the people in and even when the Churches play these songs, the people just get emotional from the beat and repetition of the lyrics and the songs. It even bothered me that some of the songs were written by secular people and the lyrics were changed to sound more Christianized. We changed Churches and ended up going to a trendy type Church and even though the preacher was theologically correct, the music was played by the subjects of your video. I've been currently traveling through the Philippines and we have visited several Churches here and they are following the same templates of the Churches in the U.S. One thing that has really bothered me and it is the reason I prefer the old style hymns now is that when I listen to the songs played by the Churches we go to, that is written from the subjects of your video, it sounds like I am at one of the "rock concerts" I went to in my younger days with the thumping drum beats, the guitar solos and the flashing stage lights. I remember when I rededicated my life back to Jesus many years ago, I decided to do away with all the secular music I was listening to and I only bought Contemporary Christian music to listen to, but just because it says Christian music doesn't mean it is Christian and I even come to realize that the people writing, singing and playing Christian music are not living their lives in a Christ like way (just playing Church and getting paid) I could probably go on and on but your video said it all. Thanks again. Enjoyed it.

[@hedgehoghogtel1694]

Great video. I also will not listen to Christian music from groups/musicians that support/promote these churches/false teachers.

[@botts7119]

Yes , I agree. I don't hardly ever listen to My old music that I did before I came to God. But I say to people because I Am born again doesn't mean I suddenly liked Christian music. I thought it was just me and at times self doubt crept in where I would think I'm not Spirit filled like others because I couldn't sway to the chant. What You say I agree. There's a difference between being Spirit filled and worshipping God to being worked into an emotional state and thinking Your feeling God. However it is easier to hear God when Your at peace and some music can do that for You.

[@jdbishop2697]

This is very true. One of the major issues with the whole "seeker-sensitive" movement of this age is indeed the music, but it isn't just the music, it is also the whole church program not to mention the preaching that's done there. The preaching is the biggest part of what is wrong with the world today because most people are getting milk from it and no meat.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Like what? Show some examples.

[@jdbishop2697]

​@@AngelaVEdwards Oh man, where do I start? The examples I could give would fill up a whole thesis and some of the words to describe the whole situation would take me a while to put together in my mind to share. But I suppose one I could give for now would be preachers in general who are constantly giving worldly sermons not to mention Biblically progressive sermons, in other words those who only deliver feel-good sermons and never talk about anything that is deemed "controversial" or too "politically incorrect" by the modern-day culture's standards for that area. You could also say those who only preach irrelevant or progressive philosophies or prosperity sermons filled with false promises not to mention also a one-sided Gospel where what is preached is only the positive stuff without the negative stuff that precedes it, and those who are too soft on sin and won't rebuke it when they see it and you could also include those on all sides who rip verses out of context to try and justify a point and things like all of that. Ministers like these are everywhere but three examples of public figures in relation to what I'm talking about which I could give you for now would be Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, and John Hagee.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

You’re generalizing. I asked for some actual examples of these terrible things they are saying so your answer is to tell me they say terrible things? Huh??

[@AngelaVEdwards]

And I’m no fan of Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland and I agree with you about them. I’m not terribly familiar with the third guy.

[@jdbishop2697]

​@@AngelaVEdwards Like I've said before giving enough specifics would fill up a very long thesis on here if not a whole book for posting on here. Also I don't think I could easily give out some specific enough examples on this platform without possibly getting my comment censored. You obviously have only been around the small percentage of ministers who are traditional in their practice and therefore haven't experienced enough "seeker-sensitive" ministers in your life both in person and on the mainstream media to easily understand what I'm talking about when I speak generally. By seeker-friendly I do mean ministers who all they preach is feel-good sermons and mix their sermons with worldly philosophies like the ones I referenced and many others. Certainly if you are familiar enough with any of the men that I referenced you would get a taste of what I'm talking about. As for John Hagee, he is very much like these other famous prosperity preachers except the biggest issue with him is trying to resurrect and merge the customs of Old Testament Judaism with New Testament Christianity like the whole deal with blood moons and trying to make modern-day signs out of them.

[@Beulah44]

Try listening to TY BELLO, Theophilus Sunday, Sinmadele, Sunmisola Agbebi and Yinka Okelye. Some of the Nigerian Christian's who Worship deep in Spirit and Truth.

[@SamuelLee-gw6wr]

Many Chinese groups are also sound.

[@shellcshells2902]

Jesus rescued me from starting my Christian walk in Hillsong Church London, England. When I moved back to the usa I was shocked at how many churches use this music... and Pastors won't listen!!! It's so sad and frustrating😢.

[@lionoffireraw]

Yes, I agree! I’m glad that you escape that.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I just caught this entry today on Gotquestions a biblically sound site I trust and have used for years. The entry is titled: Is Hillsong a biblically solid church? Gotquestions shows that it is and that Hillsong does have a couple of minor differences from many churches (but nothing to make them "false" or "dangerous"). Those differences are the ordination of women (I've never heard of a woman ordained there but who knows) and the other being that they follow the Word of Faith Movement (prosperity gospel) but only in such a way that the money is used to further God's kingdom, not for our own selfishness. At the end, Gotquestions quotes this verse: “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I suspect that the real issue with people picking Hillsong and others apart like this is because they are so large. As such, they have more people involved. Imperfect people who are going to mess up sometimes just as we all do. And with that many people involved there are going to be more mistakes made than at a smaller church. We need to extend some grace to people like this who are out there trying to teach God's word and help people find salvation. If they were preaching heresy, that would be a serious problem. But they are not.

[@lionoffireraw]

There are many videos out there exposing the many problems with Hillsong.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I watched one of the videos you were pointing to this morning and the person said the song lyrics of the song he was objecting to lacked context and could not be understood and were “emotional” I understood them very easily when I first looked at what he was quoting. God wants us to come to him even with our hurts and pain and we don’t have to gain “perfection” before we come (actually it says God is not impressed with perfection). What’s so terrible or hard to understand about that? Do the people who can’t understand stuff like this ACTUALLY have discernment?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw You claim to be a pastor. But when I told you that Gotquestions, a known authority that is _steeped in the Word of God_ says something different you tell me to go and trust some unknown video creator instead. Why would I do that? I've been using Gotquestions for _years_ and have looked at thousands of the questions on their website. In _every case_ they use the scripture (usually several verses) to provide the answer to the question. Every, single time. Now why would I go look up some unknown on KZbin and trust them instead? Does that make any sense to anyvbody??

[@oscarcat1231]

Good reminder - One reason why I wouldn’t give any money to any church playing their music. However, I do attend a Christian holiday called Spring Harvest who does play their music and has invited Rick Warren to speak next year - 😳 not much discernment

[@JRJackman-qs8ph]

I can’t believe people are still ‘taken in by’ Rick Warren. To be honest I’m not sure about Spring Harvest either, though I went twice with our children many years ago before leaving the charismatic fellowship my husband and I were attending when we were saved. It’s a minefield isn’t it?

[@oscarcat1231]

@@JRJackman-qs8ph a few years ago, 2015 I think, they invited Archbishop Justin Welby. I couldn’t believe people were just clapping like seals. He is an imposter I believe with a sinister agenda to bring the church down. They wouldn’t outright say the gay lifestyle was wrong. Gavin Calver talking about revival - where in the Bible does it talk about revival- rather a falling away! And, a lot of them support the ecumenical movement. However I do still attend and love the idea of Spring Harvest. I don’t think I support the women pastors and leaders though!

[@rhiannaloft3158]

Unfortunately “This is modern Christianity “ Less of the church in the world and more of the world in the church

[@oscarcat1231]

I went to Spring Harvest UK in April. Found myself jumping up and down to one of Elevation’s hits!! The worship leader had been on the voice. It was more like a wild pop concert sending people into a hypnotic state as Steven Kozar states.

[@juliatamalo7916]

Thank you for the insightful explanation, Matt. As we all know, the tree is known by its fruits. Many people are saved by songs and these churches. Just listen to the Lakewood Church Wednesday post today. The point being is that we are NOT to judge the anointed, especially when they are proven to be saving lives. God ways are NOT our ways, remember?! It is stated in the Bible as well. Especially in the time when we all need the light of Christ. It is worth noting that the main purpose is to save lives, NOT to condemn them. Wisdom and discernment are integral part of preaching the gospel. As I have been advised, being right is not the only effective approach, I have experienced it myself when we show grace, others are more drawn to love of Christ, and that is the way to attract them to get to know more and learn about the Salvation of Jesus Christ, which will lead to acceptance as the personal Savior. Remember, it is a process within a journey, and everyone is going through different path, and not every seed falls into the same fertile ground. Hope you get the idea. God bless you 🙏🏻🎉

[@charliehorse5637]

I see a risk of people doing alot outwardly; listening to the right kind of Christian music, saying Grace at every meal... When the inside of the cup, the heart is left uncleansed. Watch out for that! (Ephesians 5, Proverbs 7) Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, *that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.* Titus 1:15 *Unto the pure all things are pure:* but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

[@fallenkingdom-zd8xh]

I agree with you on pretty much everything. One theologically rich song that I do recommend is “At The Lamb’s High Feast” It’s beautiful!😍

[@lionoffireraw]

Thank you!

[@With-one-wing]

I brought this up to my previous church pastor, not because of lyrics but because of the money a church has to pay to use the music. I don’t think we should support the churches behind the bands. Plus, the kids in the church will think if we sing their music then their teachings must be ok too. I left my church because they disagreed and continued using it.

[@SamuelLee-gw6wr]

I quit Elevation Worship Resources discord server at 11am today after reading 2 Peter 2 talking about false and lying prophets. This may be one of the best things I have done!

[@pamrush5078]

Thanks for this I agree with you totally I sent an email to my church s worship team leader and he sent me a rather weak email saying that he and the leadership agreed to keep singing the songs I was using discernment and the email I sent was not taken seriously

[@baffledanderanged2101]

Unfortunately it's the blind leading the blind who are also deaf. Their hearts are hardened.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Really? I have been a Christian for 49 years and I love music from these groups. Also, at least in Hillsong’s case the individual who writes the music leads an exemplary Christian life and mentors younger, newer Christians. EVERY church has “problems” so if we dismiss everybody because they’re not perfect then we should go and live all by ourselves out in the woods.

[@BestChristianWorshipSongs7]

I've personally tried making my channel into a christian music channel, where I post biblical songs. I used to enjoy more of those hillsong songs, but once I came across my biblical songs with less hype to of music, I can't stand those anymore. I don't know how to grow big though, and tbh I don't know if I want to grow big so that I don't have pride grow inside me.

[@arethPoole]

People today want to be entertained, and too many churches want to be relevant with the current times, regardless of the path they take. I used to teach on evangelism and apologetics. I had asked for a room at our church to expand the numbers of those attending, but was told that band practice had priority over what I was doing. Yes of course that should take presidence over teaching Christians how to share their faith...Seriously!? And yes they were walking down the same path as Hilllsong.

[@paulaivens8063]

Well said👏 I listen anything from old Gospel hymns to Messianic. Some songs tend to be more a worldly love song. I’ve even heard some that were even a bit perverse.🤔

[@marisa5359]

Yes, indeed. This is another issue that I feel a particular burden about. These churches were highly revered in my hypercharismatic days and their music was often used in the midst of pursuing a lot of foolish and unbiblical practices. The notion our music would alter the course of what God would do was a constant refrain. When my eyes were opened, I really thought I was done with the music, too, hard as it was to do so. I never knew how ingrained it was in me until I walked away. But, walked away I did, obliterating the CDs and retraining my brain in what it meant to worship Him. Now, imagine my dismay when I discovered so many other churches-ones I have no quibble with in Bible teaching-are playing this music, too. Everywhere I went, there it was, from every denomination. I could not find one that did not play any unfortunately, so I settled for the one that I could agree with in all else. One has to have Christian fellowship of some kind and I was parched for it after a long drought. Now, I have broached the subject with some of my leaders only to be told, " Yeah, you are right, but..." Fill in the blank with excuses ranging from " I don't endorse the teaching of those churches by playing their songs" to " We have to stay relevant and play what people like". I have even heard the argument that there is nothing Biblically in error in the lyrics, so there is nothing to worry about. I have presented the concerns of leading others astray or funding false teaching through copyright payments. I have pointed out as tactfully as possible that while, yes, the words are not in error they are also rather shallow and too often centered on self versus awe-inspired, reverent worship. I have been met with nods of acknowledgement with only minimal change. I am not sure what else to do on this point. I like my current church otherwise, do not feel like uprooting yet again, and grant that not everything they play is from those churches. However, when they DO start them up and I see the dreaded Bethel, Hilllsong, or Elevation copyright, my heart sinks and I struggle with how to conduct myself. How does one approach something like this when leaders see no need for change or, at least, are reluctant to enact it? Ah, how this needs prayer. Thank you for touching on this. It is so needed.

[@lionoffireraw]

I’m sorry to hear that you are experiencing this. It’s a very frustrating situation, when people know that you are speaking truth, but attempt to dismiss you anyway. Sadly, the people with the greatest discernment and conviction, are the ones that are ignored. It can be hard to know what the answer is!

[@adamzappia2213]

So glad you made this video Matt.

[@richardholappajr.6184]

Thank you, Matthew for addressing this issue! Music is such a powerful tool that, unfortunately, can be used for worldly purposes. Personally, I prefer the historic hymns.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

And I prefer the newer music and I have been a Christian for 49 years. Just because you like the old stuff doesn’t mean we have to force everybody to listen and sing the old stuff and I’m seeing a lot of that in these comments.

[@lionoffireraw]

I prefer the older hymns too, but I think we can worship to various styles of music. For me the issue is that these groups I listed are false and dangerous churches. We cannot support and promote them!

[@richardholappajr.6184]

Agreed! Christians will gravitate to churches that have similar views as they do. As long as it is doctrinally sound, music is one of those preferences. (i.e. Christian liberty)

[@richardholappajr.6184]

I would never recommend forcing anyone to choose a type of music...that is a Christian liberty issue.I simply stated my preference. God's blessings!

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Go back to Gregorian chants.

[@GregRickard]

The fact churches have to pay Hillsong royalties to use their songs TO WORSHIP GOD says enough to me. I was blown away when i learnt that.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

This is their livelihood. This is how they feed their families. Should we expect YOU to go to work for no pay?

[@GregRickard]

@@AngelaVEdwards They make enough through cd sales or whatever it is now. Hillsong aren't short of cash, they aren't starving.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@GregRickard Well you're not starving either. So maybe you should make half your paycheck from now on because that's what you want Hillsong to do. So now we're the experts on what kind of money other Christians _should_ be making?

[@livingforhim1462]

I feel a lot of these songs focus on us and not Jesus. They talk about what God can do for us, and sometimes just about us, where I feel they should focus on God alone worshipping Him. I agree there are songs that speak of things that are biblically inaccurate. It blows my mind that these are played in churches.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Really? Quote some lyrics, please.

[@lestrangemd]

I've heard about these churches, but no idea about their teachings. This is an eye-opener. I grew up in hymn singing churches. But even when we sang hymns, they always cut the hymns short like singing just the first and last verse. Hymns often tell a story. One time we were singing A Mighty Fortress Is Our God, they skipped a verse which takes Christ completely out of the song. The singing comprised maybe 5 minutes of the whole service. When they took the hymns out of the service completely and replaced with the more pop music type they repeat lines over and over and this goes on for a third of the service. People now confuse their emotions with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

[@artistchristos]

Hi Matt, I have read most of the comments and went to listen to three Hillsong songs with lyrics just now. After three I could read that they are boring by their sameness. I listened as a bible reading Christian. These songs are sung with powerful emotion which I can tell would emotionally affect listeners especially by the rousing soaring style of music. The most important thing I could really see, reading the lyrics, is that they could be love songs to a person not necessarily to Christ. Jesus name was not mentioned. They sang to ‘you” and that could be anyone. Just because they say things about “heights of heaven” and words of “love” and “loving you” etc made all the songs metaphysical in nature, not Christian. No wonder Christians say they love these songs so much, because they are generic! The worst thing is, that the youth being inculcated into these cultish churches don’t read the Bible! They’d have no context for the lyrics that might hint at scripture but don’t actually sing any scripture! We know that Sa tan himself knows the bible, which is why unbiblical churches parroting metaphysical unscriptural songs are dangerous. 🙏📖✝️🇦🇺

[@AngelaVEdwards]

“I’ll stand with arms high and heart abandoned in awe of the one who gave it all. I’ll stand my soul Lord to you surrendered all I am is yours” That doesn’t mention God huh? And you can’t tell who they’re singing to?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Here’s the entire song. You can’t tell this is about God and not a lover? Really? This is one of Hillsong’s most popular songs. You stood before creation Eternity in Your hands And You spoke the earth into motion my soul now to stand You stood before my failure And carried the cross for my shame my sin weighed upon Your shoulders my soul now to stand So, what could I say? What could I do? But offer this heart O God Completely to You So I'll walk upon salvation Your Spirit alive in me This life to declare Your promise My soul now to stand So, what can I say? And what can I do? But offer this heart O God Completely to You So I'll stand with arms high and heart abandoned In awe of the One who gave it all I'll stand, my soul, Lord to You surrendered All I am is Yours

[@BestChristianWorshipSongs7]

If you want an alternative to Hillsong and Bethel songs, try Sovereign Grace Music or Keith and Kristyn Getty.

[@stiglet_mcg]

Yes, and City Alight

[@cblackink]

I do not support any music created by false churches, regardless of lyrics. Buying and listening to their music IS supporting them. And yes,most all of it is shallow stuff used to pull in those who know little about the Bible.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

But did the false church actually “create” the music? You hear a lot about Hillsong which has had its share of problems but the individual who writes the music is a dedicated Christian man who has done absolutely nothing wrong. Joel Houston. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. I love Matt’s ministry but I completely disagree with him about this subject.

[@tammyspurdle9208]

If a church is using songs from these false churches it shows a lack of discernment in leadership. It would make me wonder too what other areas within the church the leadership lacked discernment.

[@therecoverytabernacle]

Thank you for your ministry!!

[@vickielynne2403]

I listen to Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir, Cee Cee Winans, Luther Barnes

[@dk4232]

Interesting how we've been on the same journey out of word of faith churches and started listening to Ravenhill, Washer and Wilkerson. Agree with this but feel like I've beaten this drum with our pastor already. Morning service is usually 3 solid songs and one of the better theological ones from this trio. Evening service is mainly Bethel and Hillsong

[@olgafuhrmann7497]

I go to hills song church and I worship in the spirit nothing wrong with that I love my songs from hill song each to their own

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I love Hillsong’s music and have listened to it for years. I’ve been a believer for 49 years.

[@karlcarlson4240]

Dig deeper,, every time a "Good" church uses one of thier songs they have to pay to do so. It's a cash cow for them. Call out those churches who fund the bad churches you list. This is way BIGGER than you think.

[@lionoffireraw]

I mention this in the video.

[@colin13579]

It’s hard to know what to listen to these days. They all seem to be false, even groups/singers out of these mega churches. Very confusing times, it would be nice to have some videos on what is true & honest. As a new(ish) Christian all I’m hearing is that everything is false (teachers/music/churches) 🤯

[@lionoffireraw]

I would love to get some recommendations from people about good Christian bands that I can recommend. I removed the comments from the other person who posted under your comment, because their comments were dangerous. It’s true that no one is perfect, but these churches are heretical and false. We should be avoiding them at all costs. I have done videos on KZbin channels that I recommend. I’ve done two videos on this. Hopefully I can find some videos on songs that I can recommend. But, you should absolutely stay away from these groups in churches.

[@lionoffireraw]

One band that a lot of people recommend as good, is Sovereign Grace 😃

[@colin13579]

Thank you for your reply and asking subscribers to recommend some music 👍

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw If they are heretical then you should be able to point and link to the EXACT heresy they are teaching. I have never heard of ANY heresy that Hillsong was preaching and their songs don't contain heresy either. I'll be waiting to check out this heresy they are preaching. Gotquestions a very biblically sound website that is steeped in the Word of God that I trust and have used for years does not say that Hillsong preaches heresy and they say that Hillsong is biblically solid which is what they were specifically asked about. Gotquestions also quotes this verse regarding Hillsong: “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

[@juneduffy4502]

Colin … I agree as a new Christian - it’s so confusing .. people also saying the programme The Chosen is bad too! It was The Chosen that lead me to buying a Bible and reading it and wanting to get baptised. I know The Chosen is not accurate and they don’t claim it to be accurate - they clearly state some of it they based on assumptions of what it may have been like back then when Jesus was alive. I stopped watching it after the first series and I feel a little resentful as I feel I’m bad if I watch it- but would like to watch it. I was an astrologist and tarot card reader - I got rid of all that in my life to be told your bad if you watch a tv programme that leads people to Jesus 🤯 so now I avoid churches because of being told they are all corrupt .. so I sit alone with my Bible learning about Jesus. I’m sure this is not all that God wanted for my life 😢

[@BestChristianWorshipSongs7]

Does Hillsong purchase rights to songs? Because I know many great songs that I knew not to be part of hillsong, that are now labelled as Hillsong.

[@10zico10]

I found on KZbin the song "Goodness of God" so good and loved it, but later realized it's by Bethel. Now I have stopped listening to it on KZbin, even though I still keep hearing it in my mind.

[@Beulah44]

Listen to it. Does it glorify God? Does it please His Spirit which dwells inside of you? Don't forget God used pagan prophet Balaam, to bless Israel. Do you think He can't use Bethel to sing Praises to His name, despite their shortcomings? My God is so Big, so Strong and so Mighty, there's nothing my God cannot do.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@Beulah44 God uses all of us, despite our shortcomings. That's a very good point.

[@dannysmith9009]

These songs are there to put you to sleep.... like Samson in Delilah's lap(which is a picture of the world scheme pride of life ..lust of the flesh etc)... going to sleep ""FEELS GOOD ""

[@snowwhitehair485]

What is the difference between paying a tithe to a church and paying royalties to Hillsong, Bethel etc. for using their music?

[@lionoffireraw]

Giving money to support a solid biblical church is good. Paying royalties to false and dangerous churches is bad.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

“False and dangerous” churches. What makes them false? What makes them dangerous? I want to hear ACTUAL WORDS that come from these churches that are false and dangerous, not just speculation and talking about how they have “problems”. All churches have problems. I know for a fact that Hillsong isn’t teaching heresy and in every single case where a pastor falls into sin, he’s removed from the pulpit. Frank Houston, Brian Houston, and Carl Lentz are among them. Instead of waging vague accusations against these fellow believers why don’t you bring foreword the EXACT messages they are preaching and show us what’s wrong with it. And if you’re going to pick at the prosperity gospel then every single church who preaches Malachi 3:10 before taking the offering, promising that the Lord will bless you if you give your money to the church needs to be condemned. That’s pretty much every Protestant church I’ve ever attended in my entire 49 year Christian walk. So what exactly is false and dangerous about these churches?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw “False and dangerous” churches. What makes them false? What makes them dangerous? I want to hear ACTUAL WORDS that come from these churches that are false and dangerous, not just speculation and talking about how they have “problems”. All churches have problems. I know for a fact that Hillsong isn’t teaching heresy and in every single case where a pastor falls into sin, he’s removed from the pulpit. Frank Houston, Brian Houston, and Carl Lentz are among them. Instead of waging vague accusations against these fellow believers why don’t you bring foreword the EXACT messages they are preaching and show us what’s wrong with it. And if you’re going to pick at the prosperity gospel then every single church who preaches Malachi 3:10 before taking the offering, promising that the Lord will bless you if you give your money to the church needs to be condemned. That’s pretty much every Protestant church I’ve ever attended in my entire 49 year Christian walk. So what exactly is false and dangerous about these churches?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

You do realize that pretty much EVERY church preaches about Malachi 3:10 before they take the offering right? Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Been a Christian for 49 years and I’ve seen this everywhere. How is this any different from Hillsong preaching the “prosperity gospel”?

[@snowwhitehair485]

@@AngelaVEdwards - Malachi 3:10 . - Good, solid teaching taken straight from scripture.

[@EstherT-hi4eb]

There are plenty of great Christian artists out already such as Steven Curtis Chapmann, Leeland, Marty Goetz, Keith Green and a lot of the old Calvary Chapel music... just dig into history of Christian music... and Hymns too

[@truthwatch2858]

Amen and Amen

[@sumbomarcus]

Matty how would you define discernment? if you could kindly tell me, it would be great!

[@lionoffireraw]

Being able to tell the difference between what is biblical, and what it not. Discernment is especially important when it is referring to more nuanced (and unpopular) positions, where at times many people find it difficult to determine what is biblical and what isn’t!

[@kingdomreachministries695]

I think what you point out is true and I know the churches you are mentioning have all these, some being severe, teaching issues but I also know something else is true. Reading the comments of some here. There is a much more deeper issue that needs more attention that people miss. Which is the human heart. Granted, the worship music industry has turned into a money generating circus and licensing, copyright rubbish that, as someone who has listened to and played some of these songs, as well as songs by unknown artists, has problems that trouble me. If they are God's songs, as a lot of the artists would suggest then let them be free to the whole church without restriction. But in saying that, what also is just as bad is being a Theological junkie, the bible says knowledge puffs up. Being a hearer of the word but not a doer. I have attended churches and also interacted with people in situations outside of church who say they attend bible studies etc and they don't have a loving bone in their body. Their brother and sister in Christ, if they are a stranger, will treat them poorly and with disregard. White washed tombs maybe? I am sure that there are Christians who can listen to some of this music without issue and still do more for God in spirit and truth then the theological perfectionists who study and study but remain unchanged. As far as supporting the churches that teach falsely. Some of us may inadvertently support these churches but even these churches can introduce people to the basic message of Christ. It is the maturing aspect where people get mislead but I am sure that if someone becomes a Christian and has a personal walk with God that is true and genuinely seeking him then they will eventually come out of the false teaching as they mature and read the scriptures and learn the truth as many have. The leaders of these churches will be judged but even among the tares the wheat will grow. The bible is the truth and the only scale we have to correctly weigh up the things we engage with. Let each one examine themselves with fear and trembling but if love is not the foundation then everything is for nothing. Even if the churches concerned stop playing the music tomorrow they would be left dealing with their own hearts and how they treat each other in other matters and the churches that play the purist hymns will have the same issue. Some people just want their own church experience to be what they want, perfect for them, and that applies to people on both sides of this argument. But why do you go to church? is it for your own interests? many people in our churches are struggling with life and their faith is being tested in many ways, especially with the youth in a world growing darker by the day. They need people there alongside them who can minister the truth to them. But most attend with their own interests at heart. What about snatching people out of the fire? This makes the music somewhat trivial to me but it is a valuable conversation. Hope I don't sound angry, just passionate 🙏

[@lionoffireraw]

The two things are different matters. In this video, I’m addressing the matter of the music.

[@AlexandraNMorgan]

And I believe that when another church plays songs from Bethel or Hillsong, royalties get paid to Bethel/Hillsong

[@AlexandraNMorgan]

I hadn't finished the video when I posted this, just heard you list the royalty issue in your list of reasons why not to use their music :) I remember hearing that from one of Doreen Virtue's videos a while ago

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@AlexandraNMorgan I honestly do NOT understand all the people who don't want these folks to be able to make an honest living. To feed their children. Why can't they have a career that makes money? Everybody else gets to. What if a group of people tried to stop _you_ from making money at your job?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I love Hillsong. I have been a Christian since 1975 and I am very serious about the Lord. But I have not seen even ONE song from Hillsong that was problematic. The Stand (one of my favorite songs of all time) King of Kings, Another in the fire, What a beautiful name, Good grace. Hundreds and hundreds more. What’s wrong with those songs?? It actually ticks me off when people do stuff like this and “warn” people away from music that glorifies God. I’ve never seen even one “bad” or misleading lyric in any Hillsong song I have EVER heard and I love Hillsong. Stop misaligning fellow believers. That is wrong. 😡

[@lionoffireraw]

Did you listen to points 2-5 in the video? If you aren’t concerned by that, then that’s concern!!

[@colin13579]

I agree, one of my favourite Hillsong songs is Christ is Enough and the lyrics are beautiful.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

In another comment on this video I posted the lyrics from The Stand which is spiritually sound and not even close to being “shallow”; matter of fact it’s pretty right-on and deep spiritually. I could have done the same with hundreds of others.

[@lionoffireraw]

Do points 2-5 in the video concern you?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I’m hearing a bunch of generalizing that does not fit what I know of Hillsong’s music which I love and have listened to for years. You’re generalizing and you are not actually pointing out ANY problematic lyric from any of these groups. I am a SERIOUS Christian and I can guarantee you, if Hillsong started to have some “iffy” lyrics I’d have a real problem with that. But I have never seen even one that could be called that.

[@therecoverytabernacle]

Great work

[@NormaMitchell-q3u]

I only sing Scripture. Esther Mui sings beautiful Scripture songs using the New King James version.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Then you must only want a pastor who does nothing but read scripture. Because when pastors give a sermon, they are using biblical principles to teach principles about God much the same as Christian musicians are doing. But by your reasoning they should stop all of this and ONLY read Bible verses.

[@NormaMitchell-q3u]

@@AngelaVEdwards At least we know we are singing and worshipping accurately. Jesus read scripture from the Torah in the temple. He never preached a sermon in the temple. He preached to the crowds outside the temple and met the needs of people there. David only sang Scripture in the temple found in the Psalms. There are too many musicians parading in the church who are not anointed of God. For me that is dangerous. I'm musician myself and I have seen it first hand and wanted no part of it.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@NormaMitchell-q3u If these groups are preaching or singing heresy then let's hear what they are saying that is so wrong. I have been a Christian for 49 years and have listened to Hillsong for years and have never heard even one lyric that was biblically questionable. People have to stop this being led around like sheep stuff just because someone decides to preach a sermon saying Hillsong is dangerous. That's not critical thinking at all and it's also not discernment.

[@Edctheology]

I don’t see anything wrong with using the music when it’s theology correct, some of their music isn’t really sound in theology. But I don’t think it matters if it’s actually good, what is good? Theology sound is good, not theological not good. But also I would stress what is worship? Worship is more the way we love our lives according to the word of God, when I lead in my church I like to emphasize “praise” but yes bethel is out of their mind, Hill song is a little lost, but some of their lyrics are actually really theological and as long as it’s good so what. But I agree having a understanding of what words they use mean and what the message in the song is important.

[@altasadventures1139]

This has become a debate in a lot of churches and I get where you’re coming from however: If we were to take away all songs written by those who, when composing, believed fully and completely in good theology but later deviated, we would still have plenty of songs to chose from, however, we would be most safe in singing ONLY the Psalms because you know they are fully correct. That being said, we must then take Luther’s songs from our hymnals - he vehemently hated the jews at the end of his life. We must also take out Saffords, “It is well with my soul” complete fruit cake at the end of his life. In addition: ‘When I survey the wondrous Cross” 86 that sucker… Watts didn’t approve the doctrine of the Trinity at the end of his life. There are plenty of others but I believe it comes down to - Are you following the writer, or the Lord who gave the gift to the writer when they, as believers, wrote these songs? God doesn’t play second fiddle to anyone therefore, I don’t follow the song writer, I follow my God and use discernment, a fantastic gift from God to keep or toss songs. Sure there are a lot of songs I don’t sing, - because I use discernment-. I’ve actually seen a church (I attended) TORN apart and the pastor fired the day a “Hillsong” hymn was sung as part of the worship. The church completely split but guess what the kicker was… It was a Gaither song of a similar name so something so menial and pathetic tore a church apart. Knowledge used the right way is priceless; when it crosses over to pride and arrogance, it is destructive and helps no one. The pride of “I know what that song is, it is a prosperity gospel song” caused an excellent pastor to lose his job, a congregation to fall apart, and many of the souls who used to attend haven’t found a church to attend, all because of pride. Pride without knowledge at that. Feelings were hurt, sin was committed and it affected so many all because someone was offended by a “Prosperity church song” that wasn’t. Maybe more people should get involved in the worship team so they can know what they are singing ahead of time and instead of worrying who it came from, concentrate on the theological fortitude of the lyrics.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Thank you.

[@lionoffireraw]

See points 2-5 in the video 🙏 No one is perfect theologically, but we cannot support and promote blatant false groups and churches. Maybe we should consider doing away with some of the problematic songs from centuries gone by too (as you listed). There are more than enough safe groups to use 🙂 We don’t have to agree with all a person’s theology, but we cannot support and promote blatantly false groups!!

[@altasadventures1139]

@@lionoffireraw It does bother me that $$ goes to them and wouldn’t promote paying to use them. 100% agree on that.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@altasadventures1139 This is their livelihood. This is how they feed their children. We can't try to block people from making an honest living. That is wrong.

[@altasadventures1139]

@@AngelaVEdwards If you mean Hillsong which is what we are talking about, I think they do just fine. As someone who has been in the entertainment business, the royalties alone without ever performing again pay all your bills. It’s not wrong, It’s making a choice just like not purchasing Disney+ because it promotes immortality.

[@jem587]

I just wanted to share a perspective here. Our church is very focused on theologically correct lyrics, irrespective of the group that produces them. My flatmate is in the music team and noticed that we play a lot of Bethel and Hillsong. But if the lyrics are giving God glory should we be too concerned with their origin? Doesn't he use everything to his glory and good purposes? One thing I've noticed in my faith journey, is that God loves to use the obscure, the hidden, and the unknown things that most people tend to ignore. One of my pastors found an old 1980s revival tape cassette that had been sitting on a shelf in the church library for decades. When I pulled it out and started playing it to convert the songs to digital, the anointing on those songs was more powerful than anything I'd experienced before or since. So you are right in that some of the lesser known artists, God is really starting to raise up in our generation.

[@lionoffireraw]

Thanks for the comment. Points 2-5 in the video address the dangers of playing the music of these groups, even if the lyrics of a particular song is ok.

[@jem587]

@@lionoffireraw many thanks Matt. I’ve often felt uneasy about the atmosphere some of these songs are creating in our church, and find myself going back to worshipping quietly in my spirit.

[@tammyspurdle9208]

Worship in Spirit and in Truth so if a church is using Bethels song, Reckless Love of God, be concerned. Reckless is not a word ever to be used to describe God. A simply glance at its dictionary meaning would repulse anyone thinking to use it in the same breath as speaking God's name.

[@carmenvljn]

They should stop playing music written by Calvinists too.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I do have a real problem with the Calvinists. None of us actually know whether someone is going to accept Jesus and some people (like my grandpa) accept the Lord on their deathbeds. Calvinists seem to think they know that some people are forever lost.

[@ivonkwAn6443]

👍👍👍💯

[@CrowneofBeautyFromAshes]

correction they are making HUNDREDS of millions of 💲 per year not tens of millions

[@crystalclear6864]

Bring back the books and take away the screens. Focus on the words and not the emotions. Its the moral standards of some of these groups behind the scenes, that to me they should not be encouraged, they get loads of money from our downloads

[@RobColombo-cg6iw]

Every tree is known by its fruits truth or lies for out of the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak 99% truth and 1% lie is still a lie devil knows the scriptures better than all of us be he just cant help himself he is bound to be the father of lies

[@BestChristianWorshipSongs7]

Most of Hillsong songs suck anyway, I only like the old ones. Newer songs are just horrible, I've noticed this with songs from people like Chris Tomlin and Phil Wickham too.

[@andrewgraham7659]

It's simply crap I'm not okay with it. The lyrics are usually predictable and theologically poor. The music is usually garbage too...... They don't pass my standards.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Quote some lyrics from these groups that are theologically poor. I’ll be waiting.

[@lionoffireraw]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4eUaWSEYrOXndEsi=-cs_lOJaVHqrMJ02 This video. From 1 min to 5 min. He says it perfectly!

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw Well I'm three and a half minutes in and all he's doing is claiming that the lyrics of a particular song have no context and they're "emotional" and they can't be understood. I've been a Christian for 49 years and I understood perfectly what the lyrics meant: They are saying come to God exactly as you are. He is waiting for you with open arms and he doesn't care about your past and your hurts and he doesn't need you to be "perfect" before you come. Simply come as you are. God is waiting. What's wrong with that? I'm actually kind of startled that you consider yourself a pastor and YOU didn't understand those lyrics.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw I'm also concerned that you are not following the Bible yourself. If Hillsong was preaching heresy, that would be a problem. But they're not. God's word says this: “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Here’s the entire song that the video YOU pointed me to was objecting to because he claims “it’s emotional, it has no context, it makes no sense." Come now As you are or as you want to be Are you ready? are you ready? Come now We're tired broken Scared or just in need Ready or not It's alright take your time If nothing else just come Are you ready? are you ready? Come now Bring your hopes your dreams Your doubts your scars Are you ready? are you ready? Come now Bring your hurts your fears Your faith your heart Are you ready? Are you ready or not? There's no place like His presence There's no time like right now Everyone two or three of us Coming in here and now Cause He welcomes the broken He's alright with your past He's not mad at anyone of us But He waits with open arms He says come Are you ready? are you ready? Come now Leave your inhibitions At the door Are you ready? are you ready? Come now Lay your burdens down He's got them all Are you ready? Are you ready or not? He's still faithful to deliver Mighty as ever to save He's still good on His promises And His love still never fails He's not moved by perfection Or how well we look the part But he's wild about the hidden stuff Like he's wild about the heart So come now For all we've seen We ain't seen nothing yet Are you ready? Are you ready? Come now Bring Him praise for What He might do next Are you ready? Are you ready or not? He's already bought our freedom He's already paid our debt He's already done the miracle He's already conquered death He's our light and salvation He's our rock solid hope He's already done enough for us He's already doing more He's already seen the ending He's already seen us through He's already breaking out in us He's already on the move He's already won our battles He's already paved the way He's already gone ahead of us And He's ready when we are Come now For all we've seen We ain't seen nothing yet Are you ready? Are you ready? Come now Bring Him praise for What He's gonna do next Are you ready? Are you ready or not? Come

[@lekat525]

I respectfully disagree with you. I am 71 and in a praise and worship choir of up to 100 voices with orchestra and band. We incorporate pieces from all the groups. Each piece is selected to express the gospel and the ministers sermon on that Sunday. We sing a variety of styles. Until one sings/prays them, they don't really understand. If the music bothers someone all the time, then find a church that expresses your comfort level. Please do not divide God's people anymore than they already are. I pray 🕊♥️

[@lionoffireraw]

See points 2-5 in the video 🙏

[@wonderful-wafwaf]

You are being deceived

[@lekat525]

@@wonderful-wafwaf I put my trust in God. 🕊

[@wonderful-wafwaf]

@lekat525 that's what deception is. Putting you're trust in God yet not knowing His word.

[@lekat525]

@@wonderful-wafwaf Love the God I serve, love His Word, love singing His praises. Hope you do too 🕊♥️

[@Ereonnn]

Complaining about lyrics not strictly following scripture sounds like some religiosity 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@lionoffireraw]

That aside, see points 2-5 in the video 🙏

[@glennorrell3446]

I see nothing wrong with Hillsong - no church is perfect but they preach and yes, they had a bad pastor at one of their churches and yes brian Houston fell into sin and left the ministry as he should - yes i know he is now a pastor somewhere else and really should not be. They do not preach the properity gosple as other churches do, they preach, Mark 10:29-31, "29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields-along with persecutions-and in the age to come eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”" Which says you will receive great things if you forsake this life to follow Jesus but, with persecutions. Must seek the Kingdom of God first and then all this things will be added to you. Proper to teach this.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Thank you. I know all about Frank and Brian Houston but son and grandson Joel Houston who leads an exemplary Christian life and has mentored other younger Christians is the main person who writes as well as sings their music. Why are we punishing Joel Houston for leading a dynamic Christian life?

[@AdjectivesRGreaterThanPronouns]

@lionoffireraw I ask the following respectfully: How do you know that you are not a part of a false church and are not deceived? There is one Teacher that we must hear and follow. Do you hold doctrines that contradict His? Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. I pray that you have ears to hear.

[@lionoffireraw]

No, I don’t hold doctrines that contradict his 🙂 For more information on why the groups in this video are false and problematic, there are many videos and resources online.

[@AdjectivesRGreaterThanPronouns]

@lionoffireraw I used to hold similar doctrines like yours, and I had no idea just how deceived I was. Did Yahshua keep the law? Did he teach that he came to destroy the Law? He is the way, the Truth and the Life.

[@lionoffireraw]

@@AdjectivesRGreaterThanPronouns hopefully you move out of deception, and back into truth 🙏

[@AdjectivesRGreaterThanPronouns]

@@lionoffireraw Yahshua is the Truth. Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not Elohim. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Please be humble enough to consider the possibility that you you are not walking as He walked but are on a wider path. 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@lionoffireraw Once again, Gotquestions, which is _steeped in the Word of God_ and has answered thousands of questions and from what I've seen over many years has never erred even one time says that Hillsong is a biblically solid church. Why in the world should we go searching for videos from unknowns when we have a biblical authority telling us different?

[@rhiannaloft3158]

Mark Hemans is a false faith teacher that pops up in many of our churches

[@AngelaVEdwards]

In what way is he false? I don’t know who he is but if you’re going to say he’s false you should be able to back that up with evidence.

[@andrewgraham7659]

Start playing Stryper and see what happens to your Church lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Stryper is so 1980s.

[@beaugetostarmixedbag210]

Good point, we don't need to listen to these buffoonery worship music. We need to hear the True Gospel of Jesus Christ, his sacrifice on the cross and the resurrection, Not worship music.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

You’re generalizing in order to make a point that’s not even true. You stood before creation Eternity in Your hands And You spoke the earth into motion My soul now to stand You stood before my failure And carried the cross for my shame My sin weighed upon Your shoulders My soul now to stand So, what could I say? What could I do? But offer this heart O God Completely to You So I'll walk upon salvation Your Spirit alive in me This life to declare Your promise My soul now to stand So I'll stand with arms high and heart abandoned In awe of the One who gave it all I'll stand, my soul, Lord to You surrendered All I am is Yours (I'll stand) Want to tell me what’s wrong or “shallow” about this? I can do this with hundreds of other Hillsong songs as well. What you’re doing is leading people astray with untruths.

[@lionoffireraw]

I said that many of the songs are “theologically acceptable.” (not all are) You must have missed points 2-5

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I have heard literally HUNDREDS of songs by Hillsong and have not one time EVER heard one with lyrics that were not theologically sound. Not once. And I love Hillsong and listen to pretty much everything they put out. Remember I’ve been a serious Christian since 1975 so this isn’t coming from a new Christian who might be led astray easily.

[@lionoffireraw]

You aren’t concerned with points 2-5 in the video?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I understand that some of the actual churches have had problems. However you said “the churches that write these songs” which is misleading. Hillsong way back in the day had a man named Frank Houston leading it and he had some very SERIOUS problems that we cannot ignore. His son, Brian Houston made sure Frank was removed from the church and NEVER preached from the pulpit again. Recently, Brian Houston has had some sexual sin in his life so he stepped down. On the other hand, Joel Houston, Brian’s son and Frank’s grandson is the one who has written the majority of the music for Hillsong including songs like The Stand. Joel Houston is a dedicated husband of one wife who has put himself out there to mentor younger Christians like Justin Bieber. Joel hasn’t done a single thing wrong and he writes the music!!! The church doesn’t write it. The lyrics are theologically sound and the songs have not come from a person who has had serious issues with sin.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

I heard people passing crappy information around a few years ago about how Hillsong the group was taking money from the church offerings but they are a hugely popular band who sells out concerts worldwide. They make MILLIONS with the music. Why would they need the offerings? That’s ridiculous.

[@neortik7]

Paying to play the music excuse me !?

[@catherinemclernon2550]

It is true. It's called royalties. Every church pays the APRA licence yearly and reports on which songs they play

[@Deej-er9ts]

Yep a portion of the tithe goes towards these heretical churches through the CCLI in Australia and they keep churning out more heresy

[@AngelaVEdwards]

This is those people’s livelihood. So are you saying they should work for free for their whole lives? Do YOU work for free at your job?

[@catherinemclernon2550]

@@AngelaVEdwards That's not the point being made which is the royalties go to 'churches' that promote false teachings, such as "Give me your money so God can bless you!"

[@AngelaVEdwards]

@@catherinemclernon2550 I agree with you that that is a false teaching. However I've been a Christian for 49 years and I have heard some variation of that in every single Protestant church I have _ever_ attended. (My husband is a Catholic who came to the Lord as an adult in California where I am positive there was a Catholic revival and I have attended the Catholic church with him occasionally.) What usually happens is they are ready to take the offering so the pastor preaches about Malachai 3:10: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. How is this ANY different from what Hillsong is doing? I do agree with you that this sort of teaching is not good and my husband and I hated it in our churches as well.

[@markswanson2716]

I'm sorry but as a Christian of 40 years, as a worship musician for 35 years I don't agree with a lot of what you have said. You are free to have an opinion on what you consider to be a " false church" but I don't agree with you.

[@lionoffireraw]

You don’t agree that Hillsong, and Bethel are false churches?? I wouldn’t be promoting people from churches that practice - WOF - NAR - grave soaking - paying money to do “miracles” - little gods theology - claiming Jesus was only a man operating in the power of the Holy Spirit (Bethel) - false prophecy - health and wealth prosperity gospel - sexual scandals and COVERUPS - endorsement of known false teachers (Osteen, Copeland, Hinn) Yeh, I’d say that makes a false (even heretical) church!!

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Thank you. I’ve been a Christian for 49 years (and I majored in music in college and have soloed and sung with worship teams for years) and I feel the same way. Saying that, I have not sat under the teachings of these churches and if groups like Bethel are actually teaching what Matt said they are then let’s hear about it. That is dangerous. In Hillsong's case, I have heard some about the church but have listened to the music for many years and it is all, without exception, biblically solid. With Hillsong, although people were not happy with how Frank Houston’s sin was handled by some (and they have a valid point) I don’t see any actual “cover up” going on at Hillsong. Every pastor who has fallen into sin that I know of has been removed from the pulpit. Every single one. Frank Houston never preached another sermon at Hillsong after his son Brian Houston found out about his sin and had him removed from the pulpit. As far as the Word of Faith stuff, I keep asking and yet not one person has answered me why it’s okay to condemn Hillsong for Word of Faith beliefs when just about every Protestant pastor in America preaches Malachi 3:10 before they take the offering to convince people to give their money to the church. _Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it._ I’ve heard this Malachi 3:10 thing my entire Christian walk and I’ve also heard the “rules” like: You tithe on your gross not your net (even though WE never get our whole gross, the government gets that part). You tithe to the general fund of the church only. If you want to give money to missions or something, that has to be extra money. My husband came to know the Lord in California and is a Catholic. I am positive that California had a Catholic revival because the Catholic churches there are vibrant and not dead like many other Catholic churches across America and my husband went through RCIA entirely which is the teaching of the Catholic Church to adults about the church and its beliefs and they did not even one time teach him about purgatory (which is a works salvation concept). He had never heard of purgatory until I told him what it was and that was after he moved here to WA State. I got to know the couple who led this class and they are, without a doubt Christians. I said all of that about the CA Catholics because it wasn’t until my husband moved to WA State with me that he started to attend Protestant churches and he caught on quickly to that Malachi 3:10 thing and he absolutely hates it. And pretty much all of them do it. (The Catholics don't do this.) We’ve been to several Protestant churches in our 20 year marriage and except for the church here in Olympia that we’ve been attending since we moved here, all the other Protestant churches we've attended have done it. Someone want to tell me why it's okay to condemn Hillsong for saying "give your money and God will bless you" but it's okay for all the pastors to do the same and no one says a word?

[@AngelaVEdwards]

P.S. My husband just reminded me that when pastors preach about Malachi 3:10 they tell the congregation that if they don’t follow this tithing principle, they are “cheating God” and then the pastor quotes Malachi 3:8 and asks "Will a man rob God?" How is this ANY different from Hillsong following the Word of Faith movement?

[@Buttercup6745]

When ypu understand the occultism in ALL ccm music then you wouldn't listen to any CCM music. I left my church for a few reasons one was the music as the Holy Spirit put it on my heart that it was wrong at the time I didn't understand why. But over a tough few months I battled with this. Until the Lord showed me a new churchhere in Adelaide that is an Independent baptist Church. We only sing hymns no CCM buy my pastor has done a full sermon series on music and it opened my eyes to the wickedness in CCM and why Christians shouldn't have any part in it. Sadly may Christians will not listen to this. And I've been called a legalistic pharisee. I also watched a series on KZbin called 3rd Adam by Spencer Smith wonderful eye opener to the world of so called Christian music CCM. People, please open your eyes many are just being led along and decieved by their own pastors and churches.

[@lionoffireraw]

Thank you for your comment. I agree. Which church are you referring to in Adelaide, that is a good church? It’s always handy to have churches on my list to recommend to people. God bless you, Matt

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Go back to Gregorian chants.

[@ValLeeWeblog]

Yes, we know a man who works with these so-called Christian labels and he was told he could not write lyrics that hold any sin exposure/conviction. Years ago, Christian neighbors had a gathering and we were invited though we left when the so-called Christian rock music started. An unsaved neighbor who didn’t enjoy the loud, raucous music that no neighbor could not tell was Christian came and asked me if I was there during the music and I replied no I left when the so-called music began. He was happy to hear this and I was thankful I was able to maintain my Christian testimony. This all reminds me of a dear lady I knew for many years. She had served diligently in a Baptist church in Boise, being faithful for a decade or more. She decided to work in the teen department. When she walked in, the room was blackened and a rock band was playing, and the atmosphere was like you had just stepped into a bar. When she complained, they told her, "Well, if you do not like bars, you will not like working here." She immediately left this Baptist church. The only instruments we see in heaven are harps accompanying worship song. "Rev. 5:7 And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, reach holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying,“Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,10 and you have made them ya kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Though other instruments were used to worship in Israel, including the pipe, though never drums. When Christ rules the world from Jerusalem, horses will ring out as they move in worship for God with bells attached to them. Zechariah 14:20-"In that day 'HOLINESS TO THE LORD' shall be engraved on the bells of the horses." We know the music of heaven will be perfect holiness, purity, and innocence as these are some of Christ’s attributes. It will be far more undefiled and innocent than we can imagine! No worldly/secular/trendy music or beat, and immodest dress. The traditions/culture/society, ways of men, are not of Christ-Colossians 2:8, Matthew 15:9, etc. It is all wanting to be rocking and rolling with satan’s sensual ways. If rock music was not satan’s forte, it would not be in our so-called churches. David played lovely melody on a harp that caused a demon to leave Saul. (1 Samuel 16) Saul would rather be plagued by a demon than repent of his sins. We know sexy, rock music with its exposing attire is all-pleasing to satan and the demons. The Grammy awards ceremony worshipped satan with it. We know the demons did not flee. Various rock groups worship satan in song. Ancient harps and harp artwork have been located in Israel and other locals by archeologists, dating back to BC, and they appear to be the same as the harps we see and hear today though with only 10 to 22 strings. Today’s harps own 20 to 40 strings. A Jewish woman of Israel who is an expert in ancient harps, stated that those who hate the Jews hate harps. Perhaps stated from her personal experiences of being an Israelite. Women in churches adore sexy rock drummers and guitarists. Everyone knows the truth! There was a time when choirs were placed in the back of many churches, in the back loft-no show-off talent displayed. We are to dwell on those things lovely and pure. Rock music does not have a lovely melody of purity and innocence. There is a video of the naked cowboy in a church where supposedly the Gospel is preached and the women are going crazy wanting him. This is not of Almighty Holy God and the true Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ of the Bible is all innocence, purity, being undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; Hebrews 7:26. Ephesians 4 says music is to be melodious, where God’s true children sing and make melody in hearts to the LORD. A sexy-driven beat is blasphemous to what is exampled. We are to be imitators of Christ and His example is harp music with Biblical lyrics as the Song of Moses will be sung in heaven. Archeologists have located ancients harps in Israel that resemble today’s harps, though only holding 22 strings. We must ask ourselves do the instruments allowed in churches represent a chaste, innocent, undefiled, holy melody that represents all of Christ’s undefiled attributes? Do you not find it interesting that satan was worshipped at the Grammy Awards? Did any rock and rolling church of the sexy beat expose and condemn this? I will add, placing drums behind plexiglass drum shields do not transpose the driven beat into a holy melody.

[@catherinemclernon2550]

Totally agree with you!

[@AngelaVEdwards]

They can’t write any lyrics about sin, huh? This is one of Hillsong’s most popular songs: You stood before creation Eternity in Your hands And You spoke the earth into motion my soul now to stand You stood before my failure And carried the cross for my shame my sin weighed upon Your shoulders my soul now to stand So, what could I say? What could I do? But offer this heart O God Completely to You So I'll walk upon salvation Your Spirit alive in me This life to declare Your promise My soul now to stand So, what can I say? And what can I do? But offer this heart O God Completely to You So I'll stand with arms high and heart abandoned In awe of the One who gave it all I'll stand, my soul, Lord to You surrendered All I am is Yours

[@ValLeeWeblog]

@@AngelaVEdwards Dear Angela, I might inquire, do you sing any songs with words naming sins so people know what sin is and warning them they will be cast into the lake of fire if not born again, by being washed clean in the blood of the Lamb? Or, at least, naming sins before singing songs of repenting of sin. Unfortunately, even many hymns do not name sins by name. Today’s so-called churches will say all are welcome when they are not allowed to be part of fellowships due to unrepentant sins. In some so-called churches, even Bible churches, what is considered sin is not being woke and not accepting homosexuals in churches, even where they sing these songs. This includes what they consider sins by not accepting people who attend who are living in sinful sexual relationships. Some churches today even fly the gay flag. Sadly, it is all about all being welcome! 1 Corinthians chapter 5 commands the church to be pure and Christians not to associate with people involved in sins, including sexual, who refuse to repent and remove themselves and be washed clean in the blood of the Lamb. 1 Cor. 5:9-I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” I kindly ask, are any of the songs written or sung naming these sins stated in Revelation 21:8 and warning of hell’s fire-“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be cast into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death?” And 1 Corinthians 6:9-“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” The church is to be about equipping the pure saints for the work of the ministry, teaching the Bible from cover to cover and its applications. Colossians 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you, sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. The Bible also commands that no impure words proceed from a believer's mouth. The church should consist of people who use innocent and pure words alone. Thank you for considering what I have penned.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Although I agree sins should be named it is unrealistic to believe they can actually name sins in a song. In today’s world it’s actually a good thing they are even still calling it sin as more “forward thinkers” of today do not like the word sin. The song I quoted also mentions “my shame” and any of us who have been convicted by the Holy Spirit knows what that shame is. No it’s not realistic to expect songs to actually name particular sins but to talk about being freed from our sin and shame is a perfectly good, biblical message. Keep in mind, if you start naming sins you’re going to have to name ALL of them if you don’t want people to believe certain sins are terrible and other sins not so bad (kind of like the homosexuality argument; it’s a sin yes but it’s not worse than other sins). Remember these songs are going out to the PUBLIC, not just churches. We don’t want people getting all snared up by whether their familiar sin was named or not. Sin is sin. Period.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

P.S. What you are talking about should be handled in the sermons, not in the songs. Songs “prepare” people for the touch of God but they are not the be all, end all of Christianity. We need our pastors too.