Why Controller Will Dominate Halo Infinite

[@Arrrash]

Controller or mouse and keyboard?

[@profile_memes]

Controller on multiplayer for that easier tracking, but for campaign I'm 100% mouse since getting headshots there is more important especially when playing legendary

[@GreenNutts]

I'll die by my kbm 😤. I ain't pay $2k for nothin 😭😭

[@jbeard3390]

After getting diamond with both. I definitely had a far far easier time getting there with controller but im a mnk fan boy

[@koobski]

Thanks for covering this in a video. I personally think the controller is over tuned and needs to be turned down a few notches

[@peestain37]

dualsense controller all the way

[@mortman200]

The biggest issue I've been having with MKB for Infinite is that the hit detection and desync issues have made landing shots consistently a pain

[@TheKaffeekatze]

100% this. My internet is pretty decent and yet almost every game I end up losing at least one or two gunfights because my hits don't go through. Just a while ago I had a game where I back smacked a guy twice but he didn't die. It's fun when it works, but when it doesn't, boy is it frustrating.

[@shineinouzen7412]

@@TheKaffeekatze yeah, I literally have a clip of me breaking someone’s shield then bursting another 4 bursts into them (not missing) before they even fire their gun, next thing you know they shoot once and I’m melted. (I play controller)

[@fidelcastration8036]

@@TheKaffeekatze dude yesterday I went through a 45 second long firefight with 3 people and managed to melee all 3 of them at least twice and not a single hit registered.

[@TheCrispyTwinkies]

That’s the game’s fault, and it’s been addressed by many people. Has nothing to do with what input you use, whether it be controller or M&K

[@mortman200]

@@TheCrispyTwinkies has the hit detection and desync been affecting controller players as well? I'd figure the aim assist might alleviate some of the issues

[@johnweinbuch2060]

I switched from KBM to controller, just to test it out. You literally don’t need to move your right stick on controller. Find the head, strafe, and aim assist does the rest

[@threadworm437]

Halo Infinite has some of the strongest aim assist I've ever seen. I think they should give mnk slight tracking like destiny to compensate

[@WGSXFrank]

@@threadworm437 no, MKB feels odd with aim assist. They should just add slight (and I mean very slight) bullet magnetism.

[@threadworm437]

@@WGSXFrank that's what I meant, weapons in D2 have slight magnetism with mnk and it makes it feel alot better

[@JhonConners]

i cant play mnk in ranked as a 1500+ onyx player. literally every gunfight i get beamed by a player with less experience simply because they have a controller.

[@threadworm437]

It's crazy, I have only played mnk for over a year, and after I started using controller my accuracy went up by 20%. Movement on controller feels alot worse and sluggish but the aiming is so easy

[@HappyCamper907]

I think Destiny has the best solution to this. It gives MnK slight aim assist/ bullet magnetism to make up for the lack of stickiness and harder tracking and just let's controller keep their heavy aim assist. Controller doesn't need a nerf, just give MnK a SLIGHT buff.

[@threadworm437]

Destiny does alot badly but I do agree with this, you can feel it especially with precision primaries like scout rifles and hand cannons, and it makes it feel alot more balanced

[@joshuathompson6141]

Completely agree. Not sure about the slight aim assist for MnK but I definitely think it needs some bullet magnetism

[@ericsonkennway9651]

Fair

[@WGSXFrank]

@@joshuathompson6141 for sure hard pass on AA. I'll take a tiny bit of bullet magnetism though.

[@infectouswolf7222]

I just picked up a controller earlier today because of this and because it feels nostalgic and just feels right

[@steel5897]

Yup. My 12 year old Halo 3 muscle memory instantly kicked in. Halo is a controller game, I gave up trying to make it work with KBM.

[@amartinez97]

@@steel5897 the original trilogy plays perfectly on KBM, everytime I use a controller outside of campaign i feel massively handicapped and even more so playing doom eternal that way (so I dont)

[@janniswildermuth1499]

I get that both have their advantages and disadvantages but it just irks me that one of the big arguments that are thrown around a lot is "uh, it's always been a controller game, deal with it". Great job, they try to open up the game to a new community and playerbase and the first thing you get told is that you're not welcome. I get this isn't how many people argue but it's annoying to see nonetheless. (Of course this doesn't mean there aren't KBM elitists who have shitty opinions too.)

[@kynooshino]

Do you think it might help if M&K got a lesser but still present aim assist just to help with that rapid target acquisition? I think that’s an idea 343 could explore but I have no idea if it would be balanced or if it would over compensate.

[@janniswildermuth1499]

@@kynooshino I'm not sure. Any steps to simply lessen the accuracy gap would be a good one in my books, but I think a lot of the appeal of a mouse is that the player is truly in full control. But if aim assist on controller won't be nerfed then maybe it's the only way. And on a side note. The advantages to KBM could also easily be fixed. For example just make a button on controller do a quick 180 degree turnaround of the character. For precise grappling the devs could make "magnets" for grappling of common or effective grappling spots for often used jumps and shortcuts. All of these can be adressed, there just needs to be a will.

[@kynooshino]

@@janniswildermuth1499 I like exactly where it is on controller, I wouldn’t want them to change a thing for that as the skill to assist ratio feels just right but if the assist was much less it would exclude a lot of casual players and it would lead to probably more noob fights of people clonkily shooting past each other and it would just make the game feel like crap I think and frustrate people more than anything. I think from what I have experienced on both sides m&k may need to experiment with light aim assist on some guns but maybe not for snipers and skewer as they are already much easer to use on mouse and keyboard it seems and controllers don’t seem to have a whole lot of assist on those weapons either. 343 will polish it if they feel they need to but as it stands controllers feel like the way to go if you wanna be competitive.

[@WGSXFrank]

@@kynooshino no way. Mouse players really don't like having aim assist. A bit of bullet magnetism? Maybe. It was in the beta and felt alright. Without that, controller aim assist should just be slightly toned down IMO. Not removed, as that would make it unfair for controller. Just tune it down a bit. Especially on the BR

[@kynooshino]

@@WGSXFrank i think if you turn down the controller aim assist much it will result in frustration from many players including myself, as it is perfect kills are sort of rare, like 5% -10% of my kills probably Mouse is for sure behind in accuracy and I would rather find a way to bring them up rather than bring everyone else down… It’s like a “drag you down with me” kinda mentality if we strip controller players of too much. As it is you saw the scatter plot chart, even the best of the best controller users tend to be about 60% accurate on average which isn’t insane to me, but mouse and keyboard is laughable at like 30 something % on average (bad) Just with those stats alone I can tell we don’t need to tweek controllers, we need to tweek m&k, controller is pretty much right where it should be for smooth gameplay judging by accuracy %

[@tuckerkrause5838]

I really hope 343 adds options to only play with other MkB players in social too, not just cross input… but with how long it’s taking to add a Slayer playlist I’m not getting my hopes up

[@AndrewH2791]

Yeah gonna be waiting 12 + months for them to do that assuming they want to do it.

[@bluegrim4252]

You both obviously don’t play halo or don’t pay attention because there’s been that option almost a couple days after it came out

[@tuckerkrause5838]

@@bluegrim4252 you clearly didn’t read my comment where I specified social, I’m well aware you can in ranked

[@AndrewH2791]

@@bluegrim4252 The input selection is for ranked play you should probs delete your comment you look like a diddy.

[@ericsonkennway9651]

I hope so too. because in 1 on 1 you cant do anything against a controller player. I am trying my absolut hardes and some aimbotting stoner just demolishes me in 0.7 seconds with the AR

[@jtnachos16]

My opinion on this 'debate', as someone who has been playing Halo since CE and uses BOTH control methods as the mood takes me, despite being a primarily pc player this last half-decade or so, is that we need to wait longer before trying to buff or nerf input methods. Get more data, and give some time for PC players to ADAPT to the different skillset Halo asks from what common PC shooters do. Knee-jerk reactions are NOT the way to do game balance, especially on a core item like the controls. Proper arena shooters aren't a common thing on PC, so the TTK and need for tracking is not as common a skill in your average PC player's arsenal. Many of the people running into issues are the CS:GO/Siege crowd who are complaining more about TTK than actual accuracy, simply because they can't maintain their accuracy past the initial flick. Another thing to consider, is that PC players are more likely to be actively trying for headshots all the time. Which lowers effective accuracy by increasing misses due to a smaller target space. Also, finding the correct sensitivity. I had my general accuracy, as a 'meh' veteran, on MnK, go from sub 30% up to nearly 45% just by spending some time in training mode/weaponsdrills dialing in sensitivities. Which goes back to the arena shooter aspect. The type of sensitivities you want in Siege/CSGO are not the same type you want in a game that requires you to track targets. You need to find that personal middle ground between 'snap onto target' and 'can actually track without overcorrecting'. Something that is rarely considered by those complaining, is the additional issue of desync/hit reg, which is a very prevalent issue at the moment, unfortunately. For the controller players, operating off aim assist, these will likely be having less effect on their overall experience. VS PC players, who are totally freehand and have nothing to 'guide' them through the mess of hit registry and server desync issues. There also ARE cheats in play at the moment, which could cause issues with regards to the REAL data regarding stat averages.

[@Ewerboweski]

Great points, i have 2 buddies on pc who flick like mad lads in cod and siege but stink at this game. One stopped playing brcause of the ttk. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for making that clearer when all jesse does is complain to me hahah

[@KaioKevin93]

Finished placements using kbm and settled in Gold 3. Immediately switched to controller and so far im Plat 1 and still climbing. Winning so many BR fights now that i wasnt before

[@crimsonraiderxv3422]

@Chris Ghost Cool, but if you're not going to add to the conversation, your comment is pointless

[@ectsy]

I’m plat 1 with KBM. It’s possible, idk I’m just used to fast pace shooters with mouse and keyboard

[@bobito3861]

@Chris Ghost whats your point

[@KaioKevin93]

@@ectsy its def possible but my perspective is why use kbm when i can achieve the same results on controller with a fraction of the effort lol. I still play kbm on everything else like R6 Siege or Battlefield

[@ClapperDan]

@Chris Ghost lol

[@goneinmymind]

Most people complaining about aim assist are kids who picked up a KnM thinking it would make them instantly good instead of closing that skill gap issue they be having

[@slinkdroonk4175]

Haven’t played infinite yet. But back when reach released on pc (last time I played halo) aim assist was strong as hell, there were some encounters where I didn’t even need to touch the analogue stick, shit was busted.

[@goneinmymind]

@@slinkdroonk4175 I liked reach but didn't play too much of the multi-player when it was first released I actually liked its beta better than actual release I cant really remember how the aim assist was on the original, im sure it's slightly different than the mcc version

[@Bargate]

Gyro needs to be added to cross platform shooters some day this aim assist vs kmb debate in every community now and sticks have been known to suck for shooters since the release of the n64.

[@rsotuyo15]

Facts

[@temporallobe]

In the ideal world, the hardcore gamer would’ve noticed, and accepted, the benefits of motion controls... And we would all be playing with a nunchuck and wii mote, like it was meant to be.

[@licemere9899]

For me the thing is, that on a stick you choose speed of camera, and control acceleration, but on keyboard you directly tell angle, 1 unit of length = 1 unit of angle, which I would prefer in most games (besides halo)

[@adrielb1327]

Using mouse and keyboard i had to do a lot more deliberate improving than i expected i needed. I had to realize silly small things like my fingers dragging on the mouse pad or even fixing a bad habit of holding and rotating the mouse just slightly incorrectly making my aim inconsistent. After fixing that stuff i had to test with lower sensitivities so i could have a smooth and non-sporadic aim but with a mouse. These are only a small part of overall improvement which eventually brought me to onyx while solo queueing in open crossplay.

[@ericsonkennway9651]

Yeah exactly with Mouse and Keyboard you HAVE to try your absolute hardest and with a controller you have to plug it in and just start demolishing everyone :D

[@matthewcaimbeul8722]

@@ericsonkennway9651 - Not fckin true at all.

[@stefans4562]

Easy solution: Option to use input based matchmaking for all playlists. It works in MCC.

[@Bargate]

Sadly not if you search for only keyboard and mouse on MCC you won't find any games as most players use controller, the population is far too low for keyboard and mouse and this is already happening with Infinite which is very worrying.

[@Dokkaebi707]

@@Bargate honestly, at this point I hope it does die on PC, the gate keeping is so fucking toxic. We wanna use MnK but get told to hang ourselves cuz we wanna use our preferred input method and play on a fair basis. Those 1v1's are so crucial and because the movement speed is so quick its hard for the average MnK to keep track, so trying to navigate the map to take control of sections of the map and/or power weapons/power weapons are difficult, it feels like I have to work my ass off to win those 1v1's against controller players who are just breezing every strafe, every crouch, and every jump I do to keep them from 4 bursting me down.

[@TheWeeJet]

@@Bargate mcc games are old games that are made just for the use of controller and are ported to the pc years later and don't feel good to play on mouse and keyboard. But infinite on the other hand feels great on keyboard and mouse. Not to mention part of the reason input select on mcc is not big is because it took way to long to add most mouse players stopped playing before it was added. Infinite needs to do it before that happens to it.

[@joabthejavelin5119]

The graph doesn't make sense. What is it measuring? Top 100 controller, top 100 KBM in what? Accuracy? Why are there green dots that are supposedly in the 50th percentile higher than blue dots that are supposedly top 100. Same goes for KBM. There shouldn't be any overlap. All of the top 100 should be higher than the 50th percentile if this is showing accuracy. If this is saying that the top 100 players on controller have better accuracy, than there would be some overlap. But, what make one a top 100 player? Who decides the criteria? Is it accuracy? Is it games won? Is it K/D? I need way more information on the criteria for top 100. This graph is hardly the end all be all, "scientific" conclusion of this discussion.

[@nicholasgilbert9844]

I imagine the Onyx ranking system has something to do with how they chose the players for their point system. They very well could've pulled the data from a tracker, which wouldn't be too hard

[@joabthejavelin5119]

@@nicholasgilbert9844 There's still a lot of unanswered variables and not enough time has elapsed to gather enough data to make a decision on whether or not to lower aim assist in my opinion. I've seen this graph a lot and some people are treating it as definitive proof the aim assist is too strong.

[@adamthompson9388]

I play on keyboard and mouse and I just think about it like this: if I lost a fight it's because I lost that fight. Whether the opponent hit because they had aim assist is irrelevant. They hit, I didn't, so I lost. If 343 lowered aim assist or something to even the playing field, would I complain? No, probably not. But they're not going to and I prefer mouse and keyboard, so that's what I'm going to play on.

[@CptSourcebird]

Very much agreed, and I do think Halo's sandbox focuses more on positioning, gamesense, and map control as well, not just aim. If I die, I know someone was smarter or more prepared prior to the fight.

[@ericsonkennway9651]

Thats exactly the problem M&K have to give it there all and I stumble around the corner stoned out of my mind and hit every shot :D For now I only play quickplay and bigteam for the Challenges and after they are done its ranked only (Im not even that good but its hell of alot easier than the other game modes : D)

[@flaquito6296]

@@ericsonkennway9651 i mean isnt that the case with every mnkb shooter

[@JestaultSteinkeKachuik]

halo came to pc before halo 2 was a thing

[@zqzj]

18+ years playing HALO on PC. Getting sick of the noobs calling Halo a console game

[@budley9059]

"Most people play games on a controller." Excuse me, what?

[@GenFredburger]

I just want red reticle back on PC :(

[@reesemoore8542]

Wait that's a PC thing, I think it was just something in the settings I couldn't find. But if that's the case then I 100% agree

[@jackcolson4745]

Me too.

[@TheMasterGamer94Meck]

I don't think that's going to happen. They removed it to make it harder for people to use aimbots on pc. From a programmer pov, it's really easy to program something that shoots automatically when the reticle changes color

[@kentreed2011]

@@TheMasterGamer94Meck that doesn't stop aimbotters AT ALL it only makes it harder for the legit players, Team Fortress 2 or any old FPS doesn't have red reticle but Team fortress 2 is ridden with an endless wave of aimbotters.

[@TheMasterGamer94Meck]

@@kentreed2011 Yes, I know it doesn't stop them but that's why they did that lol they need a good anticheat system instead

[@williaamlarsson]

I think they can leave aim assist as is, but give MKB more bullet magnetism to make dealing with strafing easier because that's where my issues are the greatest

[@WGSXFrank]

This 100%. The strafing meta (which EVERYONE uses) puts MKB at an extreme disadvantage in all gunfights. As shown even in this video's examples, jiggle strafing will completely mess with the mouse user, while barely affecting the controller user. It's insane that anyone can argue that it's "tuned right" seeing that. A bit of bullet magnetism for MKB (which was present in an earlier build, then removed for some reason) would level yhe playing field. Just don't give MKB full on aim assist. It clashes with natural mouse movement

[@BossxCodxPlayer]

Good thing that'll never happen

[@ansharora6384]

All the advantages of mnk you stated are quite scenario dependant and when controller is winning the majority of the gunfights there's already a major advantage that needs to be toned down, my argument usually is that if halo is on PC and the major PC input aka mkb is useless it's kinda pointless to even release on PC.

[@ericsonkennway9651]

I mean the data is in aim assist gives a HUGE advantage thats a fact. They could just tweak it a littlebit an then we‘ll see… you know wha they say : It‘s a Beta!

[@Shakedown1969]

i really think you’re blowing the advantages out of proportion. i don’t think mnk is useless it seems like most people do just fine with it. in the example shown in the vid of him strafing with control to show aim assist strength was kind of assuming perfect conditions: optimal aim assist strength distance plus no cover. if you were standing out in the open just strafing left and right you’d probably be dead anyways no matter what input method. the stats do not lie, but the accuracy numbers between the input methods overlaps by a lot. especially if you are more in the average range (which statistically of course you are), then input method doesn’t really make a difference, and for most skill brackets a mnk player could easily achieve the numbers of a controller player. the true issue arises at very high/pro level play, where controller would technically have a higher accuracy potential for those of the same skill, but they’re probably segregated anyways. as is ranked i believe. if you feel that mnk is useless that may be because you’re still figuring out a recently released shooter that has a unique style of combat, even moreso than previous entries in the series

[@LimitedSpartan]

My opinion is that while yes, the 16ish% is definitely a number to look at, I believe the longer this game is out, the more things swing back to the PC side. Controller players have had far, far longer to get acclimated to the style of combat Halo encompasses so in that aspect it's natural for controller players to be having higher accuracy in a game like Halo where the TTK is so long compared to other games PC players are used to. MNK is objectively the "better" input device and will eventually take over. This is coming from a controller player.

[@dutchraider2]

I disagree. Your accuracy in a new game only really improves the first few days. Any further progress is simply based on consistent aim training (most people don't train though) and your accuracy with the controller/ mnk in other games, in other words: experience. So it's actually unlikely that these statistics will change anyway whatsoever. Although you will be able to 'win more fights' because you start learning how to play the game more strategically, that might lead to mnk players' overall kd going up. But that has nothing to do with their accuracy at all. Also I've noticed that the aim assist also adjusts a little of the recoil of the weapon as well. If you full-on spray on a medium (or even short range) target that is running across your screen with the assault rifle, your accuracy with MnK will be tremendously lower than the controller. Even if you pre-track them, just because of the spread. Aside from that, you can completely miss your target while fucking up your aim. However with controller this is actually unlikely. Even if you are taken unawares, as long as you pull down the trigger, you will at least hit with some bullets. While with MnK you can miss your entire clip some times misjudging the enemy movements. Because of this, the accuracy between 'noobs' on MnK and Controller will actually be way higher than displayed here.

[@richardmartin6069]

Another point I’d like to add to this thread is the reflection of movement on a halo game for precise jumps. I’m a pretty hardcore FPS player, and having a disadvantage with aim assist for ranked is a bit frustrating, however I don’t mind putting in the hours to practice my aim so that it’s nearing to perfect, however the fluid movements that controller players have in regards to how fast they move is tremendously helpful for slide curbing, slide canceling, and jump juggling. I’ve been trying to perfect a few of these on tanked maps mnk, and it is so narrow with how I move my mouse that it is nigh impossible to rely on it currently in a ranked match. However, coming from being a apex controller player, I also tried out with my razer controller and found that most of the jumps were close to 3x-5x easier to precisely ascertain. Again I enjoy being a stoic when trying to balance a game, but these two attributes combined drastically nullify my chances at long term success with mnk in a competitive setting, which ultimately forces me to either swap to controller and become inefficient, or suffer the long term failure which is by all means niaiserie. If I wanted to pub stomp then I agree with you that me playing mnk wouldn’t be an issue, but the fact that my only other option in making my ranked matches fair is to cutout 80% of the player base by swapping to PC only is quite terse, as I’d never know how good I ACTUALLY am compared to the player base as a whole.

[@Gopherll]

X for doubt.

[@raccnoon]

As a controller player I run around 360 no-scoping people without issue no joke.

[@TheNamesJT]

To be honest aim assist doesn't bother me right now currently in halo infinite as a pc player. The problem is with how inconsistent the weapons are including melee and nades. One match you can kill someone with the br in 4 to 5 headshots and the next match it will take 5 just to get shields down and then I have had times where i had to shoot an additional 3 more times just to secure the kill and this was all headshots. Its either 343 network/servers or something more malicious going on under the hood to give this inconsistency effect with the weapons. Regardless aim assist is the least of my issues with the game. Also, cheaters are another problem so many times I've ran into player using auto hotkey rapid fire scripts and cronus zens.

[@dnegel9546]

I noticed the same issues. I've literally emptied and entire magazine on someone see their shields pop. I die, a team mate engage the same person and shoot them like 3 more times and they die. Like 8-10 shots from a br and guy is still fine.. 🤔

[@TheNamesJT]

@@dnegel9546 Yeah its phony bro, I stream 2 hours today and barely could the inconsistency is horrid to the point of not having fun in the game. Have you also noticed how sometimes you don't even get the melee lunge? haha! Its like its a random percent chance you get the lunge which is dumb. I also have encountered nades not acting normal as in takes long to explode and how much damage it does. I watched an enemy run over my nade and exploded and his shields didn't go down! me I die instantly hows that fucking work eh hahah

[@roseproto]

If you decrease controller aim assist more than it already is the population will disappear. Not everyone wants to sweat it out every single match. You’ve got allow for some casual ‘fun’ gameplay for the masses. Otherwise this game dies a swift death.

[@WGSXFrank]

Rather than removing controller aim assist, they should restore MKB bullet magnetism. Controller currently has both. They removed MKB bullet magnetism from an earlier build. Adding it back would level those accuracy stats right out.

[@Myst97]

I switched from KB&M too an elite controller and I don't regret it. Once I played with someone on kbm and he blamed literally every death on "OP ass aim assist" it was a terrible time.

[@Beandip867]

I’m a KBM player here and have been so since Reach came to PC. A huge learning curve for PC players will be mastering track aim since not many games make use of that skill to such an extent. I remember splitgate being on fire for the aim assist controversy and someone threw a massive fit when I said work on track aim. It’s definitely true though, playing quake for a few months a while back for the first time was what made my track aim improve considerably and made playing against controllers a breeze although I am still at a disadvantage. It’s a really good skill to have and it seems like with most games having really fast TTK that skill must have been lost in the void. Playing Overwatch, my friends couldn’t use zarya very well saying she was too hard when I had absolutely no problem against smaller characters since it was like using the lightning gun in quake for me. Hopefully some players stay dedicated and get to a point where it’s not as big an issue. It won’t happen but if some pro tournaments run a keyboard mouse only series that might help the game out if it gets attention and maybe attract pros who don’t take the game seriously due to the heavy use of controllers. Just a side note but I believe I have been watching you since Reach came to PC and you have had great discussions on your videos. Look forward to watching your channel grow further.

[@baraguda3272]

When I tried playing Halo with Kbm I was confused why everyone was saying aim assist was op because I was able to track with the BR just fine, after I read this I realized my experience with quake was what was allowing me to track well.

[@nagiaoe2434]

You, a person that has trained his aim is in the same level to a kid that just got home from school and picked his controller without any sort of training. That doesn't sit right with me, I understand the need of aim assist, I just don't want to be forced to be matched against them.

[@Kdn_cs]

I hate questions like should I play one or the other, just play what makes you happy. I’m a competitive player but I still recognize that if ur not playing a game to have fun, ur doing it wrong.

[@SwanieGaming]

TTK is directly tied to whether KBM or Controllers is better when players are same skill.

[@timaragon]

A lot of problems here. Controller is not the most popular input method of gamers. Hell, the biggest gaming countries in the world like Korea is dominated by Mouse & Keyboard games. That's true for big markets like India and China as well. Globally, Mouse & Keyboard is the most popular input method. Yes, aim assist is weaker in Halo Infinite than previous titles, but that doesn't matter much when Halo has some of the strongest aim assist of the competitive shooters. They're just now more in line with the competition. And, you mentioned saying that the average joe is not going to beat a better player even on Mouse and Keyboard, but that's where the stats that you even mentioned prove you wrong. Plat 6 and up controller players are usually within a 3% difference in accuracy of the Top 100 players on MnK/KBM. That means your average joe in Plat 6 or Diamond 1 and has bodied an Onyx just because of their input of choice. Does that mean I'm asking for aim assist to be nerfed or removed? Not necessarily. I just don't want different input methods in ranked being default when there's a clear disparity. Crossplay also needs to be looked at, so KBM can opt out of it easier.

[@AAyo9036]

As a purely MK user I am curious to know how these stats will play out in a few months. I dont want 343 to make any changes until we get more information. The accuracy numbers could purely be due to the fact this game has long been a controller game and MK users need more time to acclimate with the new surroundings. But if nothing changes then I do think changes should happen to where the lower 50% have at least more parity to each other at least in unranked games. In ranked game I think they should balance to getting the top 100 controller closer to top 100 MK. That 16% divide is ridiculous. Also I dont think MK should be given AA or BM or BM adjustment if BM already exists for MK. Although I dont think MK have BM though but Im likely wrong. I think it will be a lot easier for 343 to balance AA to MK as long as Mk is left as vanilla as possible. Unecessarily adding BM to Mk could disproportionately swing the game towards a more MK meta and I dont think most of the fan base would like that. All I want is for MK to be on a level where I dont feel like a complete liability playing ranked with my controller friends. Also I am Plat 5 in Infinite. So I am saying all this as someone who is not very good at halo.

[@shineinouzen7412]

This data also serves nothing in a vacuum. It needs to be compared to accuracy ratings from other modern shooters for it to definitively mean there is a problem specific to HALO.

[@dnegel9546]

@@shineinouzen7412 wtf

[@Kekktye]

I think this is being made a bigger deal than it needs to be. Half of Halo isn't even about being able to score perfects. It just isn't a sweaty accuracy shooter. Hell, half the sandbox are weapons like the Rocket Launcher that reward getting wall shots, or guns like the Chaingun that necessarily won't land you hits even most of the time. Then there's vehicles, equipment and map movement that can also determine skill even beyond weapon accuracy. I know I personally don't have much accuracy skill, but knowing the sandbox well lands me top of the scoreboard in a majority of situations. Evaluating this game like any other PC shooter doesn't necessarily work.

[@Kekktye]

Halo isn't much about aim anyways. It's about your ability to navigate the sandbox and maps to take advantage of your situation. I'd hate to see Halo turn into a sweaty headshot fest because new PC players rely on their ability to score Perfects rather than everyone on an equal playing field with the sandbox separating good players from bad.

[@cheddarfodder]

This is so true.

[@nagiaoe2434]

You can only move and control the map so much, eventually you'll find yourself in a 1v1 situation that you have to shoot your way out off

[@Kekktye]

@@nagiaoe2434 But even in the most controlled of scenarios with the same loadout and no pick-ups, team communication, movement and the melee system are all at play separate from just aim. Sure, aim is an essential element of skill in Halo, but its so constantly influenced by so many other factors that aim shouldn't be and often isn't the be-all-end-all. Besides, Halo's map design and high TTK actively encourages finding other factors to give you a leg up.

[@nagiaoe2434]

@@Kekktye Precisely, the advantages of mouse go out of the window with the high TTK The main point is that you can turn 180, 360 degrees on a whim but that's all there is to it, you turn, you gotta keep tracking the target to shoot it, in this regard aim assist is way overpowered. and I mean sure, you can find power weapons like the sniper (that has negative aim assist and constantly pushes your reticle off target if you're unscoped with mouse) Like I said, you can move around the map, coordinate and whatnot but sooner or later you'll find yourself in a situation that you have to shoot yourself out off and controllers have a clear advantage over you, there are accuracy statistics that back this up, multiple professional fps players on pc that agree with this sentiment. I don't want them to remove aim assist from controllers, I understand why it's needed. I merely don'y want to be forced to play against them, only ranked gives you the option to matchmake based on input, I want this for all game modes and events. I'm not advocating for the removal of crossplay either, people that want to play the way things are now should be able to do so

[@Kekktye]

​@@nagiaoe2434 I almost entirely agree Only thing I would say is that this debate is entirely speaking from the wrong perspective. Either way, m&k and controller should have more input-based matchmaking options. There's just no way to entirely balance them out between their individual advantages, and getting rid of or nerfing one or the other to oblivion is stupid. Speaking broadly, Infinite reaches a not-so-bad middle ground compared to FPSs historically. It's just some of this video and many others do frame the inputs like "who's better" or "who's more fair" as if getting rid of an input is a good idea or weird elitism is helping, especially when aim is a comparatively small aspect compared to other shooters. TLDR we should give more input-based matchmaking options and not seek to make both sides more unusable by tweaking things when it isn't the biggest of deals.

[@TheNamesJT]

Controllers have bullet mag and aim assist m&k don't have bullet mag or aim assist. Mouse and keyboard did have bullet mag in the beta though and i'm not sure why they removed it maybe due to it being overpowered idk. but, aim assist is pretty balanced right now and this is coming from a pc player where in the pas I would shit on it in MCC like I said in a previous comment is the game has horrid networking, server and cheating prevention this is what 343 need to focus on getting perfect.

[@bmac1415]

Bullet magnetism has nothing to do with input device, it's a universal fundamental mechanic in the game

[@TheWeeJet]

@@bmac1415 well that universal fundamental mechanic does not work on kb&m anymore. Like op stated it worked before during the beta tests and that but was turned off by the time the surprise early launch came around. But now you can be shooting a shieldless target standing still in the center of head and hit the chest or miss completely 3 or 4 times before you get a headshot. Where on controllers you can be aiming at the upper chest / neck area and get 5 headshots on a row.

[@isaaclopez-cordell243]

I'm not saying that we need to nerf aim assist. Like you said, there are a lot of below average controller players that would get very frustrated and drop Halo if they couldn't hit their shots. ... so why is it so hard to understand that this is basically what is happening to the MnK players right now? Except a lot of us are grinding hard as fuck to improve our tracking just for a dude chilling on the couch to have the reticle stick to us? Ya'll realize that the steam charts are going to continue to drop if you basically say "Well it's not ok for controller players to have to grind because they make up more of the player base but YOU guys just have to grind." So what's the solution? Give MnK a SLIGHT buff. A bit of aim assist/extra bullet magnetism dialed in specifically for those close to mid strafing BR fights in ranked. I get what you're saying about these MnK players coming from other games, but the fact that literally the TIPPY TOP 100 mnk players have accuracy that is barely above the accuracy of dudes playing high as fuck on a couch with a controller is laughable.

[@Oxodiase]

“B-b-but controller players have more time playing Halo. Halo is a super specialized and unique game that no MnK player has encountered. No game besides Halo requires using terrain advantages with weapons and abilities while aiming like Halo does. PC players have never seen this depth of game before and just need time to acclimate.” Absolutely ridiculous to see top 100 MnK players equal to 50th percentile controller players.

[@malceum]

Mouse and keyboard just feels better for shooters. Using a gamepad for shooters feels as awkward as using a keyboard for a racing game. I play social and BTB and find that I do really well in Halo with a mouse (1.6 k/d after dozens of hours). I don't play much ranked, but I can see controller users having an advantage there. However, there is already an option to select input method in ranked.

[@PotentialEnder]

I made it to Onyx using keyboard and mouse. I had to completely lower my sensitivity to be able to compete tho since this game is more about tracking an opponent than any other shooter i play. My accuracy still isn't what I'd like it to be. But i think it'll improve over time. Still considering playing with controller on PC because that's what Halo has been forever.

[@ethanm.4201]

Easiest fix is to just add an option to only play against people using your input method outside of rank. Getting kind of tired of hearing people cry about aim assist on a mainly controller played game.

[@Jojo-nq3bp]

why? halo has been a console exclusive game for 20 years all the millions of people who played halo whiles it was a console exclusive were on controller the playerbase for controller will dwarf keyboard and mouse population in halo i think it's 80%controller to 20%keyboard and mouse on halo before the keyboard warriors chime in, bloom fucks your aim at times so,''controller doesn't aim for you''

[@william66788]

Yes it does aim for you did you not watch the video? 11:12

[@koobski]

You don't want to be very inclusive to new people playing the game I see. I am a fan from 360 days. I played on controller since halo 5 launch. Then I grew up and built a PC and joined the master race. The game clearly over tuned the controller so they didn't feel disadvantage to mouse they simply over tuned it and can drop it down a few ticks. 16% higher accuracy is hugeeeeeeee. Hugeeeeeeee.

[@GER4PREDATOR]

It is on PC since 2003 (Halo CE). Followed by 2007 (Halo 2), 2019 (Halo MCC), 2021 (Halo Infinite).

[@pp-xh9eg]

@@koobski So you want the same accuracy and be able to flick , be precise at long distance , better sniper/powerweapons accuracy... Look fair enough ?

[@podBopper]

noticed you have yet to mention magnetic shots, where controller shots tend to curve in mid air

[@Ez.bake_evan]

Using a controller is like riding a bike with training wheels. I grew up gaming with a controller, and I learned how to ride a bike by using training wheels. Controller just feels like something for kids to use that don't want to learn MnK because it's harder, or just want to lay on their couch. Aim assist should not have a place in a competitive fps game if you are also playing against people that don't have it.

[@leeandyleee]

At least in Infinite MKB feels more balanced than in MCC making it more fair and viable. Halo 1-3 in MCC skews controller so hard it makes it near impossible to consistently perform at a high level with MKB. The only exception is H2A and H4 where MKB dominates in those games.

[@Bllksem]

The way I see it, that median accuracy graph says it all. Aim assist does give an unfair advantage to controller relative to skill. The top 100 mnk and the top 100 controller players should have roughly the same accuracy, instead there is a 16% difference and that is fucking huge. Stats don't lie, and the stats say that on average controller players will be more accurate than mnk players of the same skill. Aim assist should be adjusted so that that 16% gap is as small as possible.

[@defterdred398]

Thank you

[@gurgleblaster2282]

A more accurate assessment would be k/d and time to kill. Controller players might have higher aCcuracy but it is slower to aquire targets that is not to say their isn't an advantage but it is not the only factir

[@Bllksem]

@@gurgleblaster2282 k/d isn't just based on ability to aim, but accuracy is (and aim assist, but that's kinda the point). That's why you should use the accuracy numbers here rather than anything else. In halo because of the long ttk, first shot flicks arent really important, all that really matters is consistency in aim. And like I said k/d has far too many factors involved to get any useful data out of. Ttk is an interesting idea but it is directly effected by accuracy. I mean you can very easily calculate ttk knowing accuracy and which gun is being used. But then again, there is another factor, that being which gun is being used and that's not really something that we should have to account for.

[@there_vision]

Literally just look at how much easier it is to four burst someone with a br on controller vs mkb. End of discussion. Controller should never go against mkb, it’s not a level playing field and never will be.

[@taylordocherty9807]

Definitely not a problem. I’m noticing that my teammates avg 30% accuracy in high Diamond

[@kynooshino]

Halo is one of the only games I use a controller for on my PC, since I started playing I realized very quickly I was losing a lot of engagements since I would miss a few bullets of one or two of my bursts from my BR and such and it was enough to make the difference. Switching to controller elevated this immediately even though I have not used a controller for 3 years since building my first PC. I noticed right away even though controllers now feel so uncomfortable to me as I’m not used to them anymore, I started getting several perfect kills per game and it was rare to see any perfect kills on m&k. Generally I figured I would never go back to controller since m&k is so fast and accurate in most games… but that target acquisition on controller is just so vital and I dont know who’s playing with a mouse giving themselves carpel tunnel trying to track enemies that are bunny hopping and strafing everywhere but I’m so sorry, I hope it works for you lmao So far in ranked with controller my first placement was diamond 1 which I read was the highest placement you can start with, so I played a bit more and I’m diamond 4 but I dont play ranked all that much. On m&k I’m sure I’d be like a platinum 1 at best, it’s just so hard to track heads and get those perfect kills without the heavy assist of my controller. Anyone using mouse and keyboard feel like they are getting lots of perfect kills? I’m curious if it works for some people and if you have carpel tunnel yet lol I’m usually pretty cracked on any other games with faster kill time with m&k but not halo…

[@Braszx]

I rarely ever get perfects on mouse and keyboard, it's just not feasible to do because the strafing speed is so fast and tracking that shit on a mouse is super hard.

[@Philinnor]

They should do the overwatch approach, disable aim assist when you opt in to play against keyboard players.

[@CallsignHicks]

Yeah so be at even more of a disadvantage than you already are great logic right there. Just turn forced crossplay off. People on PC just want straight advantages to stroke their egos.

[@Braszx]

I'm an upper diamond player on KBM and my god, playing crossplay is rough sometimes. The game is often decided by BR fights in ranked and the strafe speed being super high, I constantly just get destroyed by controller players in BR fights, even when strafing top speeds. It's SO hard to track that strafe on a mouse, but super fuckin easy on controller, that is my main issue with playing against them. I want to play other people on the same playing field, I don't want to have a major advantage just because my input and I don't want others to have an advantage over me because of their input. It's really annoying. You have to completely change how you play the game vs controllers as mouse players. It's extra annoying because there's no way to know what input device they are on at first to account for a change in play style. It's painfully obvious what they're on after engaging in a few fights though. You have to stay further away, or play super up close to take advantage of their slow turn speeds, and make sure you ALWAYS team shoot them. I have 0 issues with aim assist existing to make controller players able to aim, I just don't want to be forced to play against them when I want to play with 4 people in ranked. I don't think there's ever making mouse vs controller a fair fight, so I'd like to be able to choose the input based MM no matter your queue size, rather than just for solo/duos.

[@ConMan]

I don't have a good controller right now, so I've been using keyboard and mouse. But once I get a good controller I'll probably switch.

[@ChipCheerio]

Ok yeah that data is pretty damning, nerf that aim assist. Edit: Jesus, the coping from this dude trying to explain it away. My man, look at the medians here, look at it.

[@DuhBeyonder]

Aim Assist is disgusting in Halo Infinite needs a nerf. I played 2 games just to see how strong it is and my god I wanted to throw up. AA needs a nerf.

[@xXKisskerXx]

you can see how much better aim assist works for melee, the lock on range and strength is intense vs keyboard/mouse. you really don't know how much Controller aim assist works - because it works in sniping too. range doesn't matter- just the weapon.

[@KerioFive]

I use Mouse and Keys and I'm still at the top of the leaderboard most games. First time I've played Halo without a controller but I think I'm doing fine

[@plurakok]

Same here. Mkb is not as bad as people think. I've always used controller before but it didn't feel nice to me in this game for some reason

[@KerioFive]

@@plurakok I haven't tried it yet, but it looked like the normal settings needed some adjustments

[@evias9943]

It's difficult maybe a slight nerf is appropriate but then I feel like you loose the assist when players jump randomly or thrust in a horizontal direction. Making AA a little more consistent would surely help.

[@torb-no]

Controller is already so nerfed compared to previous Halos, I'd much rather they give mnk a buff.

[@hammerpaw7338]

The only reason why i think controller, what I play, is dominating right now is 1, All if the best pro players have played controller since Halo 3 and have usually stuck with controller, look at Snip3Down, and the main weapon in ranked, the BR is a gun that was designed around controller gameplay. In my opinion literally the inly gun that is better on controller is the BR but that also goes to that burst weapons are usually easier on controller while more difficult to control on m&k

[@sageslayer942]

Actually think movement is better on mouse and keyboard, it's much easier to quickly bail a gun fight and slide behind cover on mouse and keyboard due to quicker movements.

[@PunPunson]

Isn’t it always PC players telling Consol to get good? Then now we have a little edge y’all wanna complain

[@lunchboxgames2358]

Reached onyx in ranked on MnK and now play the game for fun. I still feel I’m winning on quick play and that’s what I care about right now. Pro level is a different story and it doesn’t affect me. Still tho, hope they can close the gap by a little

[@e.k.9633]

You missed a point on aim assist. It can massively f you over, too. Fighting an opponent, get him one shot then his team mate runs before him to the other side and my cross hair got pulled away which gave the one shot guy a chance to escape or reversal me. Can't count how many times that happened to me...

[@TheWeeJet]

This is a very intresting post. Not because you are incorrect. But because you are fully correct. And you are literally one of the first controller players I have seen say it. it completely goes against what 90% of the controllers players that don't agree with the controller advantages say. Most of them say the aa is not strong enough to track and mouse players are just making excuses.

[@knightowl1985]

I am a long time m/k player and I could never get it to feel right in the settings. It is slippery like it's on ice and when I fix that it is heavy in close combat. I switched to bumper jumper controller and it is great.

[@GreenKnightMods]

The real problem is the hit registration, not aim assist

[@little_lord_tam]

You know you messed up when there is a debate which of the both is over powered. I mean how can there be advocates for both? What the hell

[@Legendarycornet]

Maybe aim assist wouldn’t need to be so strong if they didn’t botched the aiming in halo. So slow and unresponsive. Look at siege or insurgency, 0 aim assist and there still is good players. And the aim assist is weird, it’s based on weapon where the biggest culprits is the Br, ar and the pistol, strong bullet magnetism and little corrective aiming while the precision have very little or zero assistance (sniper, comando, skewer). I remember using the sniper the first days, was extremely jarring, halo 5 was so easy to use and in infinite has no discernible assistance while having and unresponsive control, They need to increase the sensitivity and responsiveness of the controller if the want to decrease the strength of aim assist

[@koobski]

Great job at covering this debate you hit all the key points

[@Ash3s_97]

“Look at all these different thing you can do with mouse and keyboard that helps you movement! I think that pc players are just complaining because all they are doing is aiming and not working on their movement” “Look how the game aims for you on controller!!!” Contradiction?

[@adan507]

Great analysis overall, fully agreed with both inputs have advantages and disadvantages, sometimes is funny to read the controller players defending MnK has de advantage everywhere and we should just get gud. That data you showed says it all in my opinion. The only thing i disagree is on it being fine for social. Dont get me wrong, Fiesta no problem, but slayer or FFA? i need split input list, same as ranked.Social is less sweetier but if you play FFA is cause you want to win, so i want to be beaten by someone in the same conditions as me. MnK right now only has one option, play 100% ranked solo/duo, too few choices for mantaining people playing the game.

[@bclaudew3]

its funny that computer players think their top 100 should be the same or better than the top 100 controller players when this is the first time computer players playing halo and the top players in halo are old school xbox players

[@thirdwordbird3011]

They don't think m/kb should be better. It's more that the gap between input types is so wide that it should probably be evened out if crossplay is going to exist. Basically, "whats the point of playing how I want if I'm at a consistent disadvantage?" I think it's an interesting question for a new age of crossplay. I'm curious to see where it goes

[@bclaudew3]

@@thirdwordbird3011 you realize computer players crush controller players in almost everything and its never been even remotely close to fair. but yeah lets all have a pity party for computer players

[@thirdwordbird3011]

@@bclaudew3 man who shat in your cereal this morning

[@bclaudew3]

@@thirdwordbird3011 good one. truth hurts i know.

[@thirdwordbird3011]

@@bclaudew3 not really given that I play with a controller

[@Pimslick]

At least on M and K you can turn around.

[@זהסודי-ה7מ]

I find it hilarious that PC players complain about controller aim assist being too strong, and Xbox players complain about aim assist being too weak

[@brandonb2868]

HEY Xbox is where it’s at for halo infinite keyboards just won’t cut it

[@tylergrimm9369]

Controller makes for trash vehicle and turret operators. That doesn’t matter for ranked, but in big battle I can always tell if the guy in the back of my hog is rocking a controller. Their aim is sluggish, rarely got their heads on a swivel. I feel dirty dogfighting other wasps when my opponent has a controller, it’s too easy to exploit the limitations of their chosen input. Not saying one is overall better than another, but I wish less controller kids get in the back of my hog going forward.

[@arifall3n]

I’ve been playing Controller on PC since launch.

[@alexcastillo4741]

I'm going to pick up a controller today just for halo

[@FirstTruth]

You realize the assist is there because controller has a disadvantage right? A mouse allows for absolute recoil control and precision, a controller is limited by sensitivity settings and aiming with a joystick layout instead of a mouses dpi. A useful halo related metaphor would be two players fighting, the controller has only a ar but he has shields, whereas pc has a sniper rifle but no shield. Both have their pro and con and if pc players genuinely think the reason they lose a game is controller then they are simply coping with being outplayed. Both options will allow you to win different scenarios much easier than the other option so I can see a few kills a game going to a controller or a mk user when normally they wouldn’t but this goes both ways. Only reason this is even controversial is because the controller team has a quantifiable setting that is their help, whereas Mk is the hardware itself.

[@constructionskeleton8030]

Easy fix... matchmaking toggle for input

[@tjwest2605]

The aim assist/bullet magnetism in Infinite feels more toned down that Halo 5

[@jawu9221]

Controller but in the flight did anyone else feel like they were missing every shot, it’s fine in the beta though Edit: it’s not like I’m bad either I placed diamond 1 when I played with my friends who were mostly new except for one who played customs and 5 with me

[@alessandrogravina2319]

Apex ? Are you serious ? APEX? When you play MK on apex you have : flick , recoil cancel ,tap strafe , moving during death box inspection…

[@dudebro6118]

If aim assist is so strong why do I still suck

[@Tyrant180]

Great video. I'm still struggling lol myself and I'm a controller player but this video wasn't toxic like other people the cover this topic. Good on bro and keep the good vids coming

[@mariguanestico]

Great vídeo, but honestly idc, i have both and I go mouse/keyboard every single time because it is just so much more fun

[@steel5897]

Game is made for controller, always has been, that's what I'll use. Why are people so fixated on using KBM if it's inferior? In a game like Dark Souls or DMC5 everyone agrees that a controller is the way to go. Is it just because Halo is a shooter? This weird bias is keeping stubborn people from switching to the superior control method lol

[@WanderDMC]

Some people just find keyboard and mouse more comfortable. I know I don't want to pull out my controller when I'm more comfortable on kb+m. It's just way harder to do that when you're missing a mechanic as fundamental as aim assist. Also DMC5 is not a good example because it's definitely fundamentally better to play on keyboard, and there's probably no real difference for something like Dark Souls

[@BossxCodxPlayer]

Halo is a controller based game so when pc comes in and they complain about aim assist it was never for them, just like when pc games come out no one says controller will dominate its only when mkb isn't the best is when they complain about aim assist

[@zqzj]

Lol console is only 2 years older. MK in Halo has been around for over 18 years. It's pretty much even

[@Noxio]

I just want the hit reg and interp to feel better, so many inconsistent fights and seen videos of crazy lack of registration then it makes me question if I am getting killed cause of crazy controller tracking or what... I come from CSGO semipro/pro (context is top 15 NA) and I know my aim is good and trying to see how far can take M&K got ranked plat V in crossplay playlist but barely played ranked just happy to have a Halo on pc after all these years loved it as a kid on console

[@royalxzealot]

As an avid KBM player, I really think this is a very balanced game when it comes to Controller v. KBM. For instance, controller has its aim assist which gives them a better overall accuracy, but when taking headshot accuracy into account, it evens out for the most part. I have played 1v1s VS my friend who is a controller player and we end up trading off wins all the time. His overall accuracy is ~52.5% and mine, on KBM, is ~44%. when you add in HS accuracy it evens out a bit. His is 51.8% where mine is 55.2%. Now, that doesn't fully even out if you add up the damage dealt/kill, but when it comes to other things such as turn speed, scoping in, jumping or melee speeds, KBM will have another advantage which I think really evens it out (Unless they use paddles, but that's a minority). Now that's not to say that I haven't had my fair share of controller players shitting on me, but I still really think its even for the most part. In the end though, I think controller will cater more towards the avg casual which KBM is more for the "wannabe pro." Though, HCS is mostly controller players. Now, that is only my experience, so I can't speak for others, but that's just how I've experienced it. If it's not clear though, I play a LOT of Halo, mostly being on KBM. That might give me an advantage after so much practice in the end. I did used to be a controller player previous to MCC PC (I did play a bit of ElDewrito & H2C thought for a year previous) with probably more time on controller that on KBM, but I've had a huge increase in skill after making the switch. It can really be down to you as a person, really. On KBM, it really comes down to finding the right DPI + Sens. It can take a LONG time, so be patient. It took me around 6mo + to feel like I was getting somewhere. Also, I see a lot ab hit detec in the comments. That doesn't have to do with the Controller v. KBM, that's the game. (hope they fix that soon) I took all the stats from halostats.com and used our most played ranked playlist. Me: Crossplay, Friend: Solo/Duo Controller

[@royalxzealot]

For anyone wondering, I use 800 DPI and a 8.5 sens on Infinite, a 10 sens on MCC and 10 as well on H2C

[@ImplyDoods]

except headshots dont even matter in halo until last shot 99% of the time

[@royalxzealot]

@@ImplyDoods That's true

[@gregw7684]

Your analysis was quite good. I think its as easy as saying both inputs have pros and cons. Neither clearly outplays the other. I did notice tho, your strafe comparison with mkb and controller wasn't quite accurate. With the mkb you strafed side to side. But the controller strafe was more of a diagonal (less side to side movement). Now that was probably to exaggerate the point as I don't think the effect would have been as dramatic with an equivalent to side strafe.

[@TheExcavateable]

Controller sensitivity has a cap. And I hate that.

[@matthewcaimbeul8722]

I’m sorry but…but this game has so little aim assist (AA) to others. If you’re MnK and THINK you losing because of AA, you are just trash.

[@naeblis4812]

I've always said that in a normal setting(social or ranked), aim assist is totally fine. Because most people, even those who play ranked a lot, aren't insane try hards that devote their lives to the game. Where I believe the main argument should be held is during tournament gameplay where a shit ton of money might be on the line and which game that tournament is for. The following arguments are ALL based on tournament gameplay. I'm not going to say it every time I want to make a point, so just know that it is all based on tournament gameplay. I also know that it still takes an incredible amount of skill to be good at the game, and aim assist isn't 100% aim bot. It's just an aid and you have to already be REALLY good to compete. So with that in mind, lets begin haha. I've always thought that software that aids in your aim is kind of a weird idea when money is on the line. I can't think of any sport or competition anywhere else in the world that would allow you to have a crutch because you use a different "tool" than another player. KBM is strictly player skill. I get that KBM and controller both of different advantages and disadvantages. I'm pretty familiar with all of the arguments of why its fine to have aim assist because KBM has so many other advantages. To name a few, flick shots, turning faster, better from far away, etc. My point isn't to dispute that with aim assist, KBM still has advantages over controller. My point is that there is computer software that is actually helping controllers aim... And that just doesn't feel right in a competition unless everyone has it. All that being said, I think that games like halo... tournaments with aim assist should still be a thing because Halo has always been a controller based game. If MKB players want to join, do it full on knowing that they're going against people with aim assist. I personally LOVE the feeling of playing on MKB in Halo, even if I only get a perfect kill once every few games instead of the 1 per game that I get on controller. Where my biggest argument is with games like Apex where the competitive scene was mainly with MKB. If a controller player wants to join the big tournaments there, they should do it without a crutch. Obviously there were pros in Apex that were controller when it was getting big. I'm not saying there were none. I'm saying that the majority of those players were MKB. For the average player that isn't competing in tournaments, aim assist is great and shouldn't be changed. But when you're competing for money, I don't think it's fair to have a computer helping you aim. It should be based solely on skill, not skill and some help from software.

[@RaihanLDN]

In pro play, everyone always uses the best input. For overwatch this is KBM. For street fighter it's a fight pad. For halo it would be a controller. When everyone uses the same input there are no advantages for anyone. Every game has different inputs that are preferred and there's really no issue. Halo is a controller game - use a controller or accept the inherent disadvantage, the same way if you play street fighter with a controller you accept you're disadvantaged against a fight pad.

[@TheWeeJet]

@@RaihanLDN you missed the point op was getting at. Street fighter pros uses a fight pad because it's the superior input for the game without using software assists. Overwatch pros use mouse because it's the superior input for fps games without software assists. Pros in past halo games use controllers because it's the only option. Halo infinite has access to mouse but uses controller because dispite being inferior to mouse for aiming in a fps because the use of software assists make it superior to mouse. This is a very weird thing for the pro side to use software assist. Especially when that would be considered cheating in nearly every other game.

[@Purgious]

It's ridiculous. I just want an even fight.

[@itsaghoul]

I just use controller because my left hand has a finger that locks if I position it wrong so I just use controller

[@MikasasAbs]

If someone complains about aim assist in halo or call of duty. Just tell them to play destiny that is some strong ass aim assist

[@Mr808gamer]

maybe individual weapons aim assist change, don't want controllers to die with snipers when we can just nerf their BR /sidekick aim assist, AR is just brain dead easy that they can keep that aim assist there.

[@Vofyn]

Just look at shots at @8:22 - 33 bullets to kill 1 guy. We won't see MNK in comp ever. Aim assist excludes human's error to the highest degree. I've been playing halo for 15 years and switched to MNK after MCC release. As of now im onyx and im doing so much worse in open since controllers can make perfect shots every 5 seconds - just try to make 1 perfect medal at close/mid range with mnk. JUST TRY IT.

[@willoesd2449]

I've started playing infinite on Mouse and keyboard without issues and have been doing good in ranked, been trying controller and have been strangely doing better sometimes despite being bad on controller on a lot of other shooters. Controller does have a lot of benefits

[@lossless4129]

Bro, people complaining about input methods is so dang annoying haha just play both!

[@Thedoctorr5]

I wish Australian ping was good enough for me to blame input method for losing xD

[@cotothedog]

I'm a keyboard/mouse player. I've played every fps halo I think controller is a little too strong and can be balanced in ranked/pro-play. I think pro Gears of war 4 or 5 (dont remember) had a "competitive tuning" with aim assist turned off. I'm not saying turn it off in halo but reduce it. Minimal aim assist in pro play will accentuate who really are the best players. And allow Mouse and keyboard players to compete. Social aim assist can remain the same for the casual players so they can still get kills.

[@Crabdawg]

Surely mouse would also need adjusting (nerfs) and if the one thing making controllers usable is nerfed, they would have to be pretty massive nerfa for mouse. I dont see people liking that

[@cotothedog]

​@@Crabdawg All I'm saying is Nerf aim assist so that controller accuracy is more in line with KBM accuracy 4:20 , Controller could even keep a 2% or 3% accuracy advantage over KBM to account for mouse players being able to turn faster etc... The only way to nerf Mouse would be to nerf or remove bullet magnetism from KBM, and if that happened we would have a whole new debate that "bullet magnetism is OP"

[@major69420]

accuracy numbers dont mean much ive carried a ton of games with the lowest accuracy (mkb player)

[@Ewerboweski]

Ive got 5 buddies on controller who average 35% or less accuracy hahah. I am a around 45% on controller. If aim assist was lowered i would have to basically use short range only to compete with the plat 5 to 6 I sit around.