Why Creators Actually Quit FFXIV

Outro music: ceruleancerise - cosmic space latte

[@Scarlett90]

I think this is what channels like Grinding Gear and yourself get right, sure they're still making their way through the MSQ, but because their whole shtick isn't just "watch us do MSQ", there's actually stuff they've all developed along the way, for GG, it's their longer story based chat videos, and stuff like the Top Gear style "dungeon list" videos, or for yourself, giving us funny videos, or balanced discussions of issues, or just stuff in the game. I think some content creators just coast along on the MSQ reactions, the problem with doing so, is eventually they will run out of content, and will find themselves basically just reacting to peoples stuff, streaming raids or quitting. The reality is, there is nothing that can be done by the game or even the community to retain those kinds of content creators.

[@Orchestructive]

GG is definitely doing it right. Unabashed love and interest in the game. They would be playing it offline if they weren't doing it for content... that's the key.

[@RuneGrey]

The fact that Grinding Gears takes their time and branches out to other games also helps to build their audience because it helps to build out their audience for a greater variety than just FF14 content. You can tell that they enjoy what's going on, but I hope they recognize that a lot of what people enjoy about MSQ streams are people who want to share in someone's initial reaction to something that they really enjoyed a second time. It's about the closest you can get to reexperiencing the MSQ yourself. If you want to make FF14 your livelihood, you need to be careful and develop your own draw for your channel. Kougan mentioning Lucy as a solid streamer who creates her own content is very well said. NEST manages to make their raiding experience amusing, but Drak admits that content slows down a lot between patches.

[@Naoto-kun1085]

I've been hooked on GG seeing as they really give good in-depth analyses of the MSQ, showing they truly are interested in the story rather than solely trying to bring in revenue through views! They seem to get what Kougaon said about MSQ being the "big event" streams, which is why I'm glad they don't put those streams out too often! And the fact that they take time to play other games and such in between probably helps a great deal in avoiding burnout! And even watching them do Extreme trials is a lot of fun, since they have a lot of good commentary and thoughts on the Extremes! They're just a really cool channel all-together!

[@Shellova]

@@Naoto-kun1085 I'm loving their in-depth analysis. And recently, I've been loving their non-ffxiv contents as well.

[@xTunafishx]

One of my fav GG videos in when they do a dungeon deep dive. I never appreciated Holminster Switch until that video XD

[@paulbbryan]

People will say anything other than admit that they just need to find something that gets more views. The content creators ran out of stuff they immediately wanted to do in the game and quit, it happens, and their garbage communities just choose to hate on the games instead of have a coherent thought of their own.

[@grumpysheep3710]

See everyone talks about the so call " BIG " CC's that are leaving. But nobody talks about the little CC's that are staying and should be appreciated more for stay with the game and making ANY shape or form of FF14 content. And just cause people are leaving, moving on, or taking a break from the game and waiting for the next big story to drop along with the graphical overhaul, doesn't mean or equal to the game dying or stopping its production.

[@lorddarki9936]

Well the little content creators are just milking the content dry tbh Besides genuine niche content its mostly the same content as big streamers but its another strimmer

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

I typically follow smaller creators on Twitch since I honestly enjoy their personalities and how sincere they are

[@grumpysheep3710]

@@chelsthegameruiner8669 and that fine

[@grumpysheep3710]

@@lorddarki9936 And honestly I don't think there's anything wrong with that since, their just having fun with it now and doing little parties and what not

[@AbigatorM]

yea but i think what is the thing what is discussed here are the big variety streamer/mmo streamer. Cause they are the once with the audience to make this chart even happening. also why i would outside of events never go out of my way to help a streamer :D People who do that are most of the time the "mum i am on tv" people. sadly he cuts some stuff from the og video where he talks about how people help to make themselfs feel superior to the streamer and why that is also a part why the "coommunity" gets angry at them for doing there own stuff after they saw most. And if a narcissist isnt needed anymore the narcissist gets angry :D I idsagree with him that ALL of the community is this way but sadly a LOUD VERY LOUD minority. (love my game or else...!)

[@CaineTheDestroyer]

One thing I think people don't consider is that a lot of people know going in that FFXIV doesn't do big numbers outside of MSQ and they're just here to stream the part of the game mainstream audiences like watching with no intention of doing endgame content. They aren't here to "become an FFXIV streamer" they just want to experience the game like it's a single player FF and move on. Every MMO has toxicity in it, if that was honestly a real deterrent these guys wouldn't even be playing MMOs to begin with.

[@cresentdragon]

I think most CC quit making content on the game is because it get's very little views. FFXIV gets very little views in the first place. What arthars was talking about is streamers using their privilige to clear content in a way normal players cant. And then the streamers start stepping on others backs to get into content that normally is somewhat gated by either social connections or skillcaps. They fail to recognize this and continue on as if this is normal for everyone. It is the perception of inequality when streamers are involved. As people look to them as examples and when they move away from that position people tend to get resentful. It is not the streamers fault per se, but a lot of streamers are woefully unaware of their role in a community and the privilige they enjoy. I think the streamers who do best are those that have stuck through it. And make either content nobody else makes, or they excell in one point and hone in on that. Like raiding, ults, pvp, housing, game related content. But most importantly be into the game, and be a good streamer. Those who dipped either didn't really care for the game, or they're not good streamers.

[@RaspberryWoof]

Speaking from just personal experience. I like watching streamers do the MSQ not because I want to be in a party with them or do savage stuff, but because I want to live vicariously through them experiencing the msq for the first time and recapture some of that experience. Plus it's just nice seeing new peoples reactions to things and lots of fandoms enjoy when new people like the thing they liked. I think a lot of people might see a drop off in viewer count after finishing MSQ stuff because the vast majority of people that are prob current on MSQ havent done ultimate raids and so they dont get that same nostalgic memory sharing moment. And thats fine. It's still cool imo seeing people do content that I'm not personally going to do and I like watching the final clear vidoes of people overcoming a hard raid. But definitely, again just speaking personally, it's hard for me to keep engaged with someone grinding for months on one fight. I think there are plenty of people that would enjoy watching that, but I think the people that stick around to watch MSQ stuff and the people that stick around to watch that are different audiences. Sometimes that audience will carry over if the streamer is really personable and you just enjoy seeing their reactions to stuff and personality day in and day out. But I think its hard for everyone involved, streamer included, to make interesting content out of something you're doing for weeks/months. I also think there are plenty of other reasons that certain content creators lost their audiences that we don't need to get into here. I know I still enjoy watching quite a few FF content creators and checking in on ones that I haven't seen for awhile, but as you said in the video, we're in kind of a content lull. I think it's expected that viewership might be down, people might want to try different games for a bit, etc. And we'll prob see a lot of people coming back to continue the MSQ when the next expansion drops.

[@AZodiacCancer]

Asmons mother went into the hospital and later died around the time he quit ffxiv and streaming. If you talk to his community you'll see he does this all the time so it's not a surprise and people expect it. Rich got carried in Richcob and people like Rin carried him and tried to say he didn't. Rich is in Japan last I knew and never responded to the allegations that he was accused of. There's always a content drought in this game and it's really not that great to stream unless you're a well known streamer and at this point everyone is just watching the drama that's happened lately.

[@shaniatreyu9303]

I pointed out waaaaay early in Rich's youtube channels about he's being carried and his e-girlfriends came attacking me for it. His shit was literally unwatchable unless it was edited severely for youtube and even then I had to skip all the fights. Asmon has a similar problem. He can't play the game for shit either without being carried and it really shows. The only watchable thing from him was running around the Gold Saucer malding over the chocobo races. At any rate, ffxiv survived just fine before content creators. I really don't care who comes and goes until the game is actually plugged off.

[@cyanmage1]

@@shaniatreyu9303 I'm willing to bet most people that play ff14 don't know a single content creator unless they make a ex or raid guide that people refer to, most people that I talk to about the game just play the game and don't really feel the need to watch streamers play it

[@ColeEvyx]

I'm glad you mentioned Zack's mom. I find people talk about this topic in an insultingly insensitive way. Man needed space and was getting ragged on from all angles. The way Zack was treated was awful. And yeah he takes breaks all the time this is one reason why he doesn't really have a Twitch contract cause he doesn't meet their minimums often because he will take these breaks. We should always remember heart, empathy and kindness. Even if he puts on a hard face, being ragged on and dragged back and forth and hated on can cause anyone to feel horrible. Especially when IRL situations are horrible already enough!

[@providencebreaker1558]

Let's be honest, though. No one would believe anything Rich has to say and his buddies would rather pretend he doesn't exist to save their company. His life as a content creator is over regardless of his guilt or innocence. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop when someone tries to metoo Asmongold himself. Now that will be a spectacle for the ages.

[@extinctbaryonyx]

Who is Rich?

[@Lizard14]

People really get two things confused: lack of content and lack of STREAMABLE content. There is a lot of stuff to do ingame as a player...is it interesting stuff to watch? Mostly, no. The game is doing just fine...it's not all that content creation-friendly, though. MSQs are huge reaction content, everything else might not be interesting to watch for a lot of people. Then you combine with more people getting out of their houses because during ShB we were in the middle of the pandemic, then with the story arc ending and people not being as interested to start the new arc until 7.0, other popular games coming out and doing well, and suddenly the community isn't really "THE" problem.

[@natebroadus8474]

This. A lot of streamers don't do the tribal quests onscreen, or Bozja/Eureka, minion farming, mount farming, Gold Saucer, Etc. Basically, anything they think would be boring to watch.

[@Lizard14]

​@@natebroadus8474 That's also another good point to consider: they don't do it because they THINK it would be boring to watch. Remember how no one streamed the MSQ before Asmongold did because they thought no one would watch it? Maybe there's still "streamable" content in XIV to be found yet people didn't get there yet.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Yea raids just aren't interesting content to watch especially if people are resetting for weeks and feeling salty, and the people who enjoy raids on their own tend to backseat and cause toxicity. Raids are not streamable in general because it causes tension between streamers and chat. It's the same for grinds in all other genres, soulslikes, fighting games, fps, speedrunning etc. E.g if you're fighting Malenia in Elden Ring blindfolded, you'd get some interest at the start, but after resetting for 3 hours, people are just going to stop watching and wait for the clip of you clearing it some other day. If you're trying to get a WR speedrun and you've been resetting for 2 months, you're not going to get good viewership the whole time, you're only going to get a spike when you seem to be close to the WR. It's the same for raids, nobody wants to see you reset countless times, people in chat are even talking among themselves and not the raid.

[@WaifuProtector]

As someone that has been playing FFXIV since beta, the lulls in content are EXTREMELY apparent to veterans. I see a lot of people who are saying Arthars and Xeems are doomsayers saying the game is dying, in way they’re both right and wrong. The patch cycles are consistent and predictable to the veterans, who have most likely done nearly all the content that interests them, while most of the new players who try to counter the claim that there’s no content, most likely joined during SHB, and have only scratched the surface of 10 years of content. 7.0 will be the true turning point for veterans that want some form of true change, to shake things up and get them excited to play again. The graphics overhaul won’t mean much if the content cycle stays the same and they’re afraid to innovate outside of comfort. Once the veterans leave, the newer players that joined will eventually start to see themselves in the veterans perspective a few years down the line, leading to a cycle of stagnation. I really hope Yoshi and the team find a way to appeal to both the veterans and the newer players, because at this point in time it seems like they’re fine with the vets leaving, who now have less reasons to stay with the MSQ that began in 2.0 concluded, and the battle system arguably in the most boring state it’s ever been.

[@azi3846]

I prefer content cycle being predictable instead of not knowing when the next big patch will be. *cough* blizzard *cough*

[@seraph3359]

...The battle system in the most boring state it has ever been? What the fuck are you on about?

[@lorddarki9936]

FF14 is not really a Game made for streaming. You are supposed to play a little bit each week and then do something else. Genshin also has a similar Problem, where big genshin streamers struggle big time to keep making engaging content. But neither genshin or FF14 are made for 3+ hour gaming Sessions really. They are daily/weekly casual check in games where you do a little content one Patch at a time. This also means that more frequent patches will not fix FF14 content droughts. Look at genshin content, a game getting a New Expansion each year with a New Patch every 6 weeks. Even this cannot prevent droughts, even chinese sweatshop crunch cannot stop that.

[@siobahnhurley85]

Right on the money. Yoshi P even said all of that in an interview. They want to take a break, then come back. They don’t want you to grind it. I finally caught up to current after 3 years of just playing on my days off.

[@particion4521]

People are forgetting a massive point about RuneScape's relatively high viewer count which is that RuneScape is way more of a sandbox oriented MMO compared to the linear story-based progression of XIV (and WoW kinda). In RuneScape, experienced players can choose to do things such as hardcore ironman mode where if you die once you're done for - this naturally pulls viewers in because of the high level of intensity streamers can find themselves and it's entertaining to watch even though most viewers would probably never attempt a challenge like this. In Classic WoW, there is also a hardcore mode similar to this and it's just fun to watch how different streamers tackle getting to max level in the (relatively) unforgiving overworld of Vanilla WoW. This is just simply one reason but of course I would never suggest a mode like this added to XIV, the closest thing we have is probably deep dungeons. Something I would really love for 7.0 would be to make the overworld wilderness zones more alive and involved and not just treated like set pieces for story and quests. This could be done gradually, for example, the manderville gold saucer wants to expand their operations into Meracydia or wherever and so they set up FATES in the overworld where you have to complete a puzzle, jumping puzzle or minigame that rewards MGP.

[@lolxdlolmfaololxdd8879]

best ffxiv content is hour long e-rp sessions

[@lua_amaterasu]

People saying that FFXIV has the most toxic community need to play other games lol I played a lot of MOBA and FPS, and I still play a lot of RTS games, and all of these genres have communities that are way more toxic than FFXIV ever could be

[@Bilbo122333]

omg finally someone else who understands this! No community is free from toxic/weird players

[@RadPanther]

FFXIV arguably has better customer support for disputes in my experience too, dealt with selfish companies just covering their eyes and ears too damn much to even be worried about someone acting inappropriately in this game, because odds are they will have been dealt with already.

[@24hr-Gaming]

I do play other games. How many other games do you see have at least one major witchhunt every WFR? If not several major witchhunts throughout the year? How many other games go after people for daring to say that they might not like the game or that they don't like parts of the game? Even Arthars in this is just pointing out the obvious that the FFXIV community does have a very well recorded habit of going after people once they leave casual content. A lot of players actively talk shit about anyone who does raiding. You guys should just stop gaslighting people. It's pretty shit. Even Asmon, his cardinal sin was he changed his mind on what he wanted to stream that day and lost interest in the game. Look at all the people still malding now. What kind of bananas community behaves that way? Or even shit like harassing people who don't cry on cue during a cutscene? Seriously, name one other game community of ANY genre that's on that levels of crazy. Even with Rich I saw so many posts hating on him because he went and did Ultimate content and lot of salty comments of "Oh boohoo he is strummer and has friends. That's not fair!" Bruh there's no other community that's even on the same orbit as FFXIV.

[@RuneGrey]

100% agree that generic raiding streaming is just not that interesting, unless you've got some amazing team personalities to help make it entertaining. This is why NEST has maintained strength as a much watched raiding group for a while, and other teams just don't attract as much interest. But NEST's KZbin complications are generally much more interesting than the streams themselves, because you can't always be entertaining if you need to buckle down and actually progress.

[@Kougaon]

NEST is another example I forgot to mention, but yes they do the raid content well !

[@RuneGrey]

@@Kougaon I mean to be fair, they couldn't even get your name right for the video so one wouldn't blame you. :D It was a very fun video though, probably the type of raiding content I personally enjoy the most.

[@chelsthegameruiner8669]

This is my group in Destiny 2. It's nice to progress but it's also good to remember to have fun. Granted now I dedicate my time to FFXIV as I'm burned out of Lightfall but I have a friend group I'd love to raid with once we get everything set up. I also have close friends who I joke around with in content like Bozja (the late night/early morning hours are the best)

[@LuckyRyo9989]

like i said in stream Its less about the content streamed and more about the creator keeping people entertained Yeah we all wanna see people react to the MSQ like how we did. but its the job of the streamer to be interesting outside of FF14 MSQ so people keep coming back no matter what the content they stream is Asmongold ironically is a good example, while we all want his FF14 MSQ reactions, he has built up a fanbase and has a personally that people want to watch and come back to (whether people like him or hate him they will watch him) and like you mentioned, having youtube videos that are edited and show what creators are like off stream, really makes people interesting in the long run (even tho i cry at thinking about learning how to edit UGH xD)

[@castoputa]

You can tell which creators have a lot of imagination, it must take a lot of effort so thank you for your own work Mr K! ❤

[@RiogaRivera]

Dont know how to retain audience after msq is a skill issue

[@Salt_Mage]

MMOs are bad streaming content in general. The biggest WoW streams are typically some person farming mounts or doing community events. No one cares about the game in the background, they care about being engaged with the streamer. FFXIV has the MSQ to carry, but it’s still an MMO. If the streamer doesn’t carry like Preach or Xeno then they fall off hard.

[@nyxra8442]

I think Nest videos make the raids interesting, I just get hooked on watching them even the older raids. the humor plus hard content, just makes sense.

[@GTheepicguy]

This is all very interesting to me as a new player. Honestly I’m interested in doing literally anything except the MSQ. To me the MSQ is the barrier to the content I actually want to do, so hearing people say there’s “no content” seems odd to me

[@ramenjd6239]

Because it’s a game existed for 10 years and obviously it’s gonna take ages for new players to touch everything. But if you have subbed the game for more than 3 years, you probably have caught up majority of the things in the game. Not to mention that the current direction of the dev team going for is to reduce the re-playability of new content.

[@lorddarki9936]

Thats because you have 10 years of content to play that is still playable (!unlike WoW or some of Genshin where Content is removed constantly). The other thing is that not all content is for all players. Some players dont engage with Housing, or raiding, or PvP or Collecting. If you dont Engagement with all the content then the existing content already gets reduced by a ton. I played FF14 for 6 Months and already got bored playing because most of the content is not for me.

[@TamaraBloodhoof]

I actually have completed the MSQ as of months ago so I took a small break. Now I'm trying to get every single class to level 90, already have all DoH/DoL and also Healer, Ranged DPS, and Magic DPS completed. Yet despite all that I still have the Physical DPS and Tank left, not to mention how I have the massive amount of crafting, the numerous quests in all the cities that I've been interested in, trying to collect the legendary mounts, Fishing Log (ick), etc. I keep seeing people who play MMO games say there is nothing to do when there is almost always something to do just from the sheer immensity of options.

[@lolxdlolmfaololxdd8879]

literally me

[@elgatochurro]

I mean yeah... But there's so much per class and even non combat stuff

[@slowreader4617]

love ur stream! ty for all of these videos you do!!

[@Redo13164]

The msq is the streamer’s ffxiv community trial period. The story is good enough to carry everyone through, but after the story is over, your established ffxiv fans need some sort of content that fits into how they like to enjoy the game and content around it.

[@emmacatte]

I see we've reached the part where everyone makes a video about this topic. See ya when you upload this again in 7.3

[@BuffySwartz]

Why don’t yall creators EVER talk about the $15+ $60 JUST to even play per month. THAT’S why I quit. Pay Square $60+ just to play wake up bots

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

Yes, that's how subscription based games work. You have to pay a sub in order to play it

[@elgatochurro]

This another resurgence of "I'M QUITTING, LOOK AT ME, I'M QUITTING"?

[@BaithNa]

I find that most creators only leave when they've finished the MSQ and see a drop off in viewership.

[@phantomvox951]

He is correct on everything he said.

[@rajabuta]

Who?

[@BradWilliamWhitney]

"More than 20 years?" I wanted to laugh, but then I realized how old I am and started looking for a job.

[@KindredEmotions]

You either quit while you still have MSQ left to finish, or you play long enough to see yourself be forced to make KZbin videos on obsolete gil farming strategies, overreacting to even the most meager of patch updates or voicing an opinion on raid drama just for the sake of content like most of them.

[@4204PTSD]

I commented on one of his post that he appeared to be toxic and I got flamed by his fans for it. And now look at this, Arthar's is saying all this when he help foster these type of end game players and is trying to blame the whole community for his subcommunity. "The people who like to watch me bitch at people are now bitching at others. This must be everyone and not those I surround myself with." And he is just talking about the people around himself which is a small percent of the end game, which that in itself is a the top 10% if that. His fans will come to his defense and say "it is just an act." But for those of us who are not his fans and only come across stuff like this, to us he seems like he can be toxic always complaining about people and never trying to help them in game just watches them fail for content.

[@Kuraerisu]

This so much. A lot of high-end raiding content creators keep talking about how the game is dying between patches, every time, without fail. It's not even exclusive to XIV either.

[@ramenjd6239]

@@Kuraerisu I mean this has been true for years between patches that people unsub (not necessarily means its dying). You can look up the stats. For example, 6.25 dropped in October with Variant and Criterion dungeon, yet the active sub dropped 11k from October to December

[@Kuraerisu]

@@ramenjd6239 People unsubbing is normal, it's just this weird insistence of those kinds of streamers that the game is dying every lull in the patch. Like god forbid the players play other games or even take a break.

[@Bilbo122333]

they always forget it's a CASUAL mmo so they can create and farm drama

[@ramenjd6239]

@@Kuraerisu well most of the streamers who said that probably have subbed the game for more than 4 years. They know the game isn’t dying (at least for now), and they’ll come back at new patches. “Ffxiv is dying” is just a buzz word so everyone wants to click on your video. They’re not stupid You probably also get a few ppl saying that yet they truly believe it’s dying. endwalker is probably their first or second on-content expansions so they never experienced the feeling of having nothing to do between patches

[@rajabuta]

People come for the MSQ, they stay for the streamer. So if that happens to you. Well.....

[@txmits507]

There's a difference between content drought and some of your community being mad at the content you're doing. Dead period and being carried are not the same.

[@Kikkia2018]

all communities have a toxic side and a nice side. i have had a lot nicer time in the ff14 community than in the wow community, there is a clear difference there, but there are plenty of both sides in every community outside of gaming as well

[@lucystarr8022]

If I hate a streamer I just don't watch, won't follow them, point and simple. I don't see the point in being a hate watcher.

[@BloodlustParadox]

Almost 2 years now from my break of FF14. Played the game since ARR launch till somewhat of ShB then I got burnt out of constant raiding (pug), linear gear progression, doing dailys/weekly, ultimate grind. I was so out of it that just stopped and I feel so refreshed that my passion for the game is slowly coming back.

[@methos4866]

Games like these are more enjoyable with frequent breaks anyways. And in the case of FFXIV you can come back whenever because the content stays no matter what. Unlike most other live service games that rely on fomo.

[@scarecrowhobo]

@@methos4866 Very true, ive taken a few breaks from these games after burnout and by the time i comeback i usually do some crazy shit in the game like rushing raid tier, getting the new crafted gear, and maybe some hardcore relic grinds. Burning out is natural at this point but the main thing in this game is to have fun, its the only reason i play it.

[@pawa9851]

i love XIV and been playing it for a long time, but a large part of the community is super toxic, at first everyone looks super friendly and willing to help, but when you go down the rabbit hole you will find people talking sh*t about others, dramas, shenanigans, doxing, comments like "i really don’t wanna say this but (insert reason to everyone goes against certain person, doesn’t matter if it’s true or false), that can be overwhelming for a lot of people, not just for content creators

[@saralee8391]

i've been playing it for just over a year and i have watched so many dramas, people threatening others making them quit or go into depression, i hate people take those dramas so personal

[@24hr-Gaming]

The community is really bad and their favorite pastime is gaslighting people who point that out. FFXIV players are fake nice. You only have to talk to one for a bit to see awful shit come out of their mouths. See "the community is the best" and "every game has toxic players". I've seen more toxic behavior from FFXIV players than RO, PSO 1, 2, and U, Vindictus, Mabinogi, Dungeon Fighter Online, and Tera combined. And always they say "but wow", FFXIV is just a home for people who got kicked from WoW.

[@anteprs7908]

it not a large part stop making it seem like ffxiv is wow

[@pawa9851]

@@anteprs7908 i’ve been playing XIV for 9 years or so, i know exactly how the community is, XIV community is awesome, but there’s a huge part that is worse than WoW, in WoW they just tell you stuff like "stupid hunter you suck, learn how to play go back to sims" like in many online games and kick you from the party, but in XIV they make it more personal and keep harassing you outside the game, social medial, doxing people, turning all their toxic friends against someone they don’t like and stuff like that, it is what it is and it sucks

[@saralee8391]

@@pawa9851 i started playing ffxiv when EW came out and i have received like a LOT of harassment, guys who follow me all day stalking me, it doesn't matter where i am, to the point that i prefer staying afk or stop playing, and just because i'm a girl, not to mention the dramas i've seen. i love the game and i'll keep playing, but i see no lie in your argument

[@hquest]

A lot of folks would gladly stick around if the content creator does MSQ or other random duties with their community. You folks that stream do better work than most of in game Mentors do. Sure you can't guarantee you will beat every single duty, and hardly doing current savage/extreme/unreals with unexperienced randoms would be an option, but it is still content and you might pool the community "what they wanna play with you tonight". That's engagement just waiting to happen.

[@Caerikz]

FF is an experienced game, not a watched game.

[@liamwilson7549]

Tbh it has to do with engagement. Game just feels very monotonous once you’ve done it all once.

[@epicurusstan3223]

I wish they would make pvp more social. It's evergreen content that casuals can jump into. It's a bit boring solo.

[@concentratedregret6394]

Also the fact that frontlines has 1 map per day, there's no variety. You start with seal rock and every game after that is seal rock

[@tciddados]

fwiw (two months late), though I agree the MSQ thing is the main driving force, Arthars' point (whether true or not) isn't just about going from non-raider to raider, it's about taking people from your community/chat to help you clear easier fights, and then once you've played for a bit, leaving them behind and grouping with someone else because they weren't good enough or whatever (similar to how Rich grouped with people from chat and then got carried through ults by Rin/Sfia+co) , which the community sees as being "dropped". That's why he makes the point that this doesn't apply if the creator does ex/savage/etc by themselves, because then they never depended on their community in the first place, so they're not "dropping" anyone by going and doing an ult with whoever.

[@Yuushiron]

BASED KOUGAON

[@sawyercustom]

Almond didn't finish end walker so he's missing a bunch of stuff from the videos I've seen he's been talking about going back to the game. I'm new and was thinking about starting to create for the game. Being I played EQ for 11 years I plan on dong similar with ffxiv. Been streaming but twitch hasn't been pushing the channel. EQ didn't'ty have a storyline to follow so I'm not worried about running out of stuff to do.

[@glain42]

Pretty well analysis esp, why people rarely want to watch raid prog.

[@JacobLeex]

I started playing 14 because of Asmongold and even though I havent played in over a year, I enjoyed playing it a lot. I was practicing for Savage with extremes but since I had no friends playing it at the time I got bored. Loved the lifeskilling, loved Ast.

[@itsyaboiherman]

Yup......look at what happened to pyromancer

[@nilzero5686]

ffxiv never had a huge streamer culture, it got artificially inflated because asmongold created a bubble due to his huge fanbase who were there for him and his extraneous family of streamers who get dragged along with him. Regardless for his reasons for stopping asmon is not an idiot and he obviously knew that the game was not a longterm view creator. So he's not going to come back. A lot of the people who came with him are trying really hard to make content like they would for other games and it doesn't work because, again, this game never had a big streamer culture and was never for that. And that's good because asmon and his people suck shit

[@minakatahizuru]

FFXIV is more single player than multi player and outside of "raid" spamming there is just a lot of side stuff not much main imo.

[@anteprs7908]

that why it popular modern mmo sneed to offer more content for a player rather then do group only content and ffxiv hasa good balance of it

[@spetsu1]

I'm taking a break from ffxiv as well. I love the game. I think it's great, but after endwalker, it felt like a good time to take a step back for a bit.

[@sinom]

As someone who is actually really into minesweeper-tike games (14 minesweeper variants, Bombe, 4D minesweeper etc.) I probably would watch you play those games for a bit lol. But ofc there are a lot of games that I just don't care about where I wouldn't watch you play them

[@Thranng]

I totally understand that streamers are getting much less views after finishing the MSQ. I personally find enough stuff to do on a daily basis but leveling another job by spamming dungeons etc. for example may be interesting to me but you cant entertain an audience with that. The problem isnt that there isnt much to do outside the MSQ, the problem is that it isnt nearly as interesting as doing MSQ. At least thats my opinion. When it comes to other streamers. I for one cant stand Xeno, i really like Zepla and always find your videos entertaining Kou. But for the most part the streamers stop doing content after they did MSQ and thats understandable.

[@mr.goodliffe4694]

So for some streamers well in my experience, the streamers’ life and other games are more important than streaming ffxiv and I respectfully agree with that streamer. Some may not not just have the time to stream it due to work life balance and can only play certain games.

[@Xylio979]

I think it's just the simple reason that MMO's aren't that interesting to watch and the majority of people who play them are very casual and don't even consume any of the content being made around the game either way

[@dacienvegas2712]

I understand Arthars point, but to be honest, that really isn't the problem or responsibility of the player, is it? Also, it's not like content creation is easy from what I heard. Those who stay and endure (at least in XIV) have been at it for years! I think Asmon quit streaming all together for months after his mother loss. Plus he has a brand, he said time and again he wasn't a XIV streamer. Regarding streaming savage, in general, JUST streaming savage is not entertaining at all. You HAVE to make it entertaining for the viewer. One final piece of advice for content creators: be genuine, don't be a phoney. No real person is "nice" 24/7. You have to tell it like it is, even if it costs you viewers or the media tour. In the long run, is a better investment.

[@voledae]

i feel like he's in such a different part of the community that i have no idea what he's talking about

[@pyroromancer]

ffxiv is the most closed nonpay to win hamsterwheel designed soley around keeping the duty finder match maker rolling.

[@norightturn7047]

There's a big difference between the amount of content there is in FFXIV vs the amount of content in FFXIV that is actually fun to watch (this will also depend on how fun the streamer is too). But generally I really enjoy watching people do the MSQ. I also like watching people discover new things in the game like the Golden Saucer, crafting, etc but let's be honest after watching someone go the the Golden Saucer a few times it kinda gets boring. Same as the raids or new jobs, etc. There's plenty to do in game, it's just not that fun watching a lot of it.

[@cynthiahembree3957]

I think this is a good point. There is a lot of things in FFXIV that are fun to do but less fun to watch.

[@Viech54]

Why I don't watch any streamers frequently: I'm only in Stormblood and don't want to get spoiled. That's already quite far into the game considering I only played around three weeks and do not skip the story. It'll be at least until the end of Endwalker before I start watching any streams or any content that might spoil my MSQ experience. So why do I watch you every now and then: Because you don't do MSQ. Your Eureka Orthos streams are fine, those are not spoilers imo and your YT content is not a spoiler either, at least not your current content. That, and because you can make content entertaining and interesting. But Genshin lost me as a player a while ago, so won't watch these streams.

[@FUall19956]

I play ffxiv and wow and both for different reasons, ff for it's MSQ and dungeons which I prefer and wow for its way of questing and building up to endgame, though I'll be doing raiding in ffxiv for endgame as I genuinely prefer ffxiv dungeons, can't compare raids as I haven't done any wow raids, but ff streamlined approach to dungeons makes them more fun for me, both games are brilliant in their own ways, no reason not to play both if you like mmos

[@FUall19956]

Just cause some KZbinrs quit doesn't mean anything bad for the games health, there's a 10 year plan and the next expansion will bring them all back because it's content for them, bare in mind it's their job to make content, and if they've done everything they want to do, that's fine, they'll jump between games like most of them do.

[@TheAssirra]

It's funny that people say raid streaming is not interesting while the echo boys are thriving on it. You just need the right personality.

[@midnamidnightwhisper7529]

A shame about ffxiv is that the only reason to watch after the story is done is for challenges, special runs, or particularly creative creators that do the non-combat side of ffxiv - or ffxiv content on lore and/or tips And, really, thats why I like small creators, they show off the neat little golden nuggets the game has, and show that the game doesn't have to be just about raids and the biggest numbers, because at the end of the day, ffxiv is so much more than that

[@trollogic1505]

It’s crazy to hear “no content” in a world with fps games and league that’s very much the same content over and over lol

[@Xylio979]

Anybody know the song playing at the start?

[@Kougaon]

pablo j and the lobsterettes - last night, now hit that sub button

[@Xylio979]

@@Kougaon yes sir!

[@linuxguypc2123]

Best take

[@eirikblackwolf]

For me, I have no desire to do EX or Savage content. Not my thing.

[@TheKirby8u]

Think this vid is also coming off the stuff arthas talked about his zepla break vid about his experience finding his viewership niche in the community an veteran burnout. Long vid to edit down but if u wanna get some more points of view to discuss about more ff14 streamer stuff ko its a good watch.

[@InvictusRed1911]

People talking about a content drought and Xeems is out here thriving and carrying the community on his broad shoulders, his red beard, and Bia's massive forehead.

[@methos4866]

Isn't he just making drama clickbait nowadays though. I don't watch his stuff but i do see his thumbnails and i'm ngl, it seems like drama clickbait.

[@providencebreaker1558]

@@methos4866 It's self aware drama clickbait, so it's kind of fun in that respect.

[@methos4866]

@@providencebreaker1558 I get that but at the same time i wonder if it's a good idea to amplify random Twitter drama. Those people don't even represent the community. It's just Twitter being Twitter.

[@InvictusRed1911]

@@methos4866 maybe watch his stuff then? Xeems makes fun of the drama and doesn't lean into it and talks about how everyone is overreacting but he's a content creator so best believe he's honest about farming content. He has super level headed and nuanced takes and as a 387 year old man he's not going to fall for obvious baits. He's also a CUTE Strummer that gives chat kissies 💋💋💋💋💋

[@AbigatorM]

yea but i think what is the thing what is discussed here are the big variety streamer/mmo streamer. Cause they are the once with the audience to make this chart even happening. also why i would outside of events never go out of my way to help a streamer :D People who do that are most of the time the "mum i am on tv" people. sadly he cuts some stuff from the og video where he talks about how people help to make themselfs feel superior to the streamer and why that is also a part why the "coommunity" gets angry at them for doing there own stuff after they saw most. And if a narcissist isnt needed anymore the narcissist gets angry :D I idsagree with him that ALL of the community is this way but sadly a LOUD VERY LOUD minority. (love my game or else...!)

[@davidepannone6021]

Arthas vid was 300% spot on.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Straight up nobody likes to watch grinding, not just in FF14 raids, it's the same for every type of game, soulslikes, fighting games, fps, speedrunning etc. E.g if you're fighting Malenia in Elden Ring blindfolded, you'd get some interest at the start, but after resetting for 3 hours, people are just going to stop watching and wait for the clip of you clearing it some other day. If you're trying to get a WR speedrun and you've been resetting for 2 months, you're not going to get good viewership the whole time, you're only going to get a spike when you seem to be close to the WR. It's the same for raids, nobody wants to see you reset countless times, people in chat are even talking among themselves and not the raid.

[@dewi6570]

If this game is on a low due to content. should I even try to play it as a new player?

[@leonarduskrisna4588]

Because now i play Warframe And if i get bored of Warframe I simply go back to Final Fantay And if i got bored with both games Im going back to skyrim and modding all the way..

[@Cbakezz]

It's simple, FFXIV isn't a game you watch, it's a game you play. you build your own experiences, and for most people it's a heavily social environment that you call home.

[@davidbell7491]

I feel like a content creator could start doing the side quests and pull some people. Some of them even outside of tribes, scholasticate and manderville are pretty decent little stories.

[@FUall19956]

I'm reading the comments and im just wondering outside of people making guides, who cares if no one is streaming the game?

[@Sniperbear13]

i think its more a Burn out thing. not everyone can only play one game for months or years at a time. not everyone that quits is gone for good, but probably will come back once more major content comes out. right now 14 is in a low period; the only thing you really have left to do is repeat content over and over and over, and it gets boring doing dailies and such day after day. even i am slowing down greatly after spending like 1000 hours in the past year having a lot more fun then the first 2000 hours i played 14. i will still log in to do some of my dailies like doing my Tribals and such, but that's about it.

[@nonanimeprofilepic]

and nothing of value was lost

[@eriltegoleth4067]

7:22 Hard FAX... past the first week watching ppl raid the same thing over and over again is boring af

[@susanfaulkner5535]

It's cuz ffxiv is more casual and the developers are trying to force a hardcore feel to the game Wich sux that's my opinion on pp quitting

[@providencebreaker1558]

We all understand why creators behave the way they do, so I feel it's especially dishonest when they or their parasocial parasites claim the game is somehow to blame when it's been following a content release schedule you could set your watch by for the past 10 years. Every two months we get a content dump and it's entirely subjective whether a creator in question can spin that content into entertaining videos and/or streams. For example, i commend guys like Xeno who can actually make their audience care about and enjoy the hardcore aspects of the game. That's his meat and potatoes and the audience can feel his passion. Then you have Zepla who really excels at presenting the laid back aspects of the game, but it feels like the air is being sucked out of the room when she's doing savage or ultimate progging. She's suffering a double whammy of TOP burnout and viewers dipping out while she's doing that content, so it's pretty understandable why she's playing around in Genshin for a bit. Mr Happy made a good point in one of his vids where he pointed out that previous XIV expansion content patch cycles were not rainbows and butterflies like some would have you believe. There is a 2 year difference between the content the devs are passively releasing and what they are actively developing. You can bet they are responding to our pleas, but who is to say what we want now is what we will still want when they are ready to actually release it? I don't think many people take that into account.

[@CRYPTiCEXiLE]

Diablo IV thats alll i got to say why i quit ffxiv lol

[@madambutterfly1997]

The 14 community isn’t even all that toxic

[@Gazemir]

It’s incredibly self-righteous

[@castoputa]

I wonder what these people are experiencing….. I’ve played for nine years and had maybe three toxic encounters 😂

[@madambutterfly1997]

@BrodeurBear the most I got in terms of toxicity was a tank rage quitting when I told him to do smaller pulls because he was taking damage faster than I could heal him

[@lorddarki9936]

The FF14 Community is the most toxic community from my experience, and I play Genshin. The Main Problem for these types of discussions is that for FF14 90% of the toxicity is outside the game. Its discussions on Twitter,Discord or Yt/Twitch. Thats how you have a non toxic ingame experience but a hyper toxic community. The FF14 Community is so incredibly toxic

[@xavierdufour-maheux4211]

When you get into pf savage or ultimate, I promise you, the community is super toxic

[@ode-blu]

I'm so tired

[@randomwalk1551]

I haved a problem with this cycle in regards to asmon.... the community was pretty salty right off that his community was going to be a big problem coming into the game. even before he started.

[@methos4866]

I mean people being worried about Asmon's fans is kinda justified. They can be quite weird and juvenile.

[@randomwalk1551]

@@methos4866 so can any fan of anything ever. Being angry over something that hadn't happened yet isn't really justified. It's one of those times when our community was just as bad as the problem they were predicting

[@anteprs7908]

@@randomwalk1551 but they are proven right the toxic in ffxiv grow alot when more wow players came in

[@randomwalk1551]

@@anteprs7908 that toxic element was always there. I found more long time players being toxic over the thing tank actual new players that would have come in with the flood being toxic.

[@anteprs7908]

@@randomwalk1551 there always is a toxic element to all mmos to all multiplayer games in general but wow player added a ton of toxic they wanted to turn ffxiv into wow .

[@itsyaboiherman]

Homie....it's not a hard graph.....JUST DONT CROSS THE LINE!!! LOL

[@WolfDarkrose]

all communities in mmos are the same. they fans in and out of game help and watch you but its really more indoctornating you into staying since the game and the company have sucked them in but like most MMMOs are a very nieche thing in this day and age. so once you cross the main game and the mian content and go into the big boy stuff. the community divides and turns into hardcore lovers and staright up im watching you and say anything do annnnnything. they dont like it crumbles as the in fighting and anger bubbles up thats why you dont make videos on the game itself but videos on aspects and parts of it. if you take anything anyone else can play like you that isnt single play in nature. people will judge and attack you for not beinging as they are.... mmos are and always have been volitily for communities. itsa why you never really have seen youtubers or twitch streams get over 1M mark. they burn out of the communites crumbles around them the minute after playing any real aspect of the game begins so does the clock.

[@WolfDarkrose]

last one but ugh listening to youtubes and streamers threory crafting why game no bring in views.. i have to laugh... its like they never think they make be just crappy personalities and they didnt come for you but the gameplay XD

[@osoevil9153]

The game is fun to play, but not fun to watch others play it.

[@serisothikos]

People have been complaining about content droughts since the game has existed. Leaving aside that these supposed content droughts are predictably timed because of the publicly-disclosed patch cycle, and you can plan around them, it's tough to say that there's a true "content drought" because the game is filled with evergreen content and with unique challenges that can be self-directed (e.g., glam farming, crafting, etc). Whether it's content that makes a good stream is different, because the game isn't built around streaming. Watching someone craft up an indagator's gathering set is not going to be very different from someone just chatting.

[@jet44444]

Nobody quit, it’s called taking a break. The game is fine and we’ll go back to long queues come 7.0.

[@cyanmage1]

there is also a bunch of games that just released or are coming out no reason to only play one game all the time heck once May hits Zelda is going to have my full attention for a few weeks and I'm still waiting for the ps4 release of hogwarts since my pc can't run it

[@methos4866]

Yeah i just bought Monster Hunter Rise, i'm still enjoying Deep Rock Galactic and yeah Zelda is also on the way. I still log in to do some crafting and such and maybe chip away at old content but i'm not gonna go deep till next patch. It's good to take breaks.

[@TheNonamelove]

omg Copiumers here too 😆

[@duhvidian2369]

I've never liked Arthars. He is rather ridiculous and dramatic to a point where I think he's actually bad for the community. Xenos too

[@sophiastorm8616]

And that's the main point. They survive thanks to the drama.there are but a few CC who don't do this. Most are just cringe and drama queens😕

[@anteprs7908]

he is the asain xeems but 10 time as horny.

[@dnawulf3212]

imagine thinking the FF community's good and wholesome in the first place

[@anteprs7908]

@@dnawulf3212 becuase it is it won awards for it

[@dnawulf3212]

@@anteprs7908check out r/TalesfromDF for proof to the contrary

[@fredy2041]

Yet there are people that want to say that WoW is better. Guys, world of warcraft IS NOT BETTER, Its the same !! You think people like to watch others raiding and doing myth plus? No Look Arthas, Xenos, Zepla, Preach! Why are they having succes playing FFXIV? Thats for example what Savix fail to understand, he has great views beacuse his entretaining, not because he plays WoW. We know why Asmongold left, tragical circumstances but when he sabotajed himself, plus thee trolls among his chat that wanted him to leave. Please need to stop saying WoW better to stream. No guys, Its literaly the same, mid cycle, there is going to be low people watching. During, patch release, new expansion, there is going to be hype and lots of views. Literaly the same.

[@24hr-Gaming]

Ty for the recommendation to play WoW. It sounds like a great community.

[@fredy2041]

@@24hr-Gaming Okay troll, go and waste your time

[@24hr-Gaming]

@@fredy2041 You guys constantly bark the same thing "WoW is worse boo hoo WoW". I'm not the one wasting my time by having WoW live in my head rent free or using WoW as an excuse to be a salty asshole. They like one game, they like another, they lose interest and move on, who cares? Why are FFXIV players this bananas that ANY time anyone says even the slightest thing they have their panties wadded up their butt? You're only proving Arthars point. Content creator might lose interest in the game for whatever reason, but the FFXIV community being perpetually a salt mine does not help. Seriously who would enjoy dealing with that shit?

[@kozo61]

Game is just boring af to watch that's it

[@MarkSchmaling]

I don't want to watch someone play the game. I want to watch someone be FUNNY! Do some light-hearted takes. I love Lucy. Talk about themselves and the game and their experience in the game.

[@Berserker604]

yep there is nothing to do right now, well if SE didn't F**ked it up, this time of the expansion we would be grinding the next Relic step, only content right now is FFXIV Drama!

[@mintparfait]

Even if there was a big relic grind it would be the same. Nobody wants to watch a streamer run currently alliance raid 100 times in a row either.

[@cyanmage1]

lets have a huge grind you need to do 19 times if you want all the weapons, I guess people forget that Eureka and Bazja are still a thing and you can always go back and farm those if you need a long term grind

[@anteprs7908]

all i hear is this"yeah fuck se for making the relic quest easy those dam SE catering to casual players dont they know us raiders and hardcore player make up about 15%of the game and we havent gotten any content later not like we just got a new ultimate or something ."

[@TheNonamelove]

FFXIV sucks. That's why they all quit. Even Jepla don't want to play FFXIV anymore. you all know deep down, right?

[@ColeEvyx]

I mean I am the first to say we are in the middle of the same mid expansion slump as we always get into by this point, I'm not thrilled we don't have a Bozja/Eureka midcore content to entertain us... but I don't think this game is bad at all. Perfect? Far from it-- no game is! But I really still think it's a gem.

[@ababilashari9970]

its a game nerd

[@MissyFuzz]

The weirdest part is that a ton of people ended up leaving for Genshin Impact. Oh, you poor, sweet summer children... You're in for a rude awakening if you think the Genshin fanbase is any better than the FFXIV one. EDIT: Love how all the replies immediately did everything in their power to prove my exact point with this comment.

[@azi3846]

You can completely ignore the GI community though, it's what I do. Most of the toxicity is on Twitter and to be honest who with functioning brain cells stays on that app?

[@minakatahizuru]

Genshin look better, better open world and more engaging combat you press button and something happens instantly.

[@Choco-sk2gj]

Genshin looks like a great game by all accounts. I beat MSQ and done raids etc and it just all feels the same in FF now.

[@minakatahizuru]

@@Choco-sk2gj should try or Tower of Fantasy,

[@rajabuta]

​@@minakatahizuru the so called genshin killer that people stop hearing after a week 😂

[@KissesLoveKawaii]

skill, personality, raiding content static + PF memes that's what keeping me interested. Majority of MSQers don't even try to get better (watching Jesse Cox's RDM gameplay, for example, made me want to unalive) or tackle hard content, if you're playing worse than me (and i'm like gray/green peasant) and your MSQ is over i'm D I P P I N G. I want to see skill, i want to see raid memes, and of course personality.