Why Critical Role Campaign 3 doesn't feel right?

[@Neutral_Tired]

Honestly, my problem with C3 is something Taliesin said early on. With the exception of Imogen, these character all feel like NPCs. It doesn't really feel like their story so much as a story they happen to be part of

[@bdletoast09]

Yep. A very good move Matt made in C2 was to tell the group to not make their character connected to Vox Machina in any way. The campaign took place almost exclusively in Wildemount and mentions from C1 events where merely about the continuity of the world remaining unbroken. C3 is heavily reliant on the viewer already being familiar with the two previous campaign, we barely got the time to feel at home in Marquet that already the party was jumping to Whitestone and meeting legendary heroes that dwarf them in comparison. The scale of the threat also grew up way too fast. At level 9 the Bells were fighting Ludinus for the fate of Exandria. At the same level, Vox Machina was working with the Slayer's Take and the Mighty Nein were trudging in the Underdark. That's ridiculous, they are out of place in their own story.

[@roboticd]

The story is a bit all over the place, and I think that is because Matt is tying up all the loose ends of Exandria, and this is the end of the Exandria stories. My bet is next campaign is new system, new world altogether.

[@bdletoast09]

@@roboticdNew system, probably. They're going to fully separate from DnD and use Daggerheart from then on, that's almost certain. New world? I'm not too sure. I just hope that if it's Exandria, it takes place far enough into the future to not be bogged down by the events of previous campaigns.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

See, ironically that’s why I love C3. It feels like a group of “the other guys” that are like “Oh shit! Now WE have to be the heroes? Oh fuck!” It adds a narrative through line that I felt was missing from C2. The Mighty Nein storyline to me had its moments but it was kind of all over the place. C3 meanwhile to me feels more focused and the aspect of these guys normally being the NPCs of a different adventure actually adds to the narrative of “People rising to the challenge of overwhelming odds”

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

@@roboticdIs it now? I felt like it was opposite with a much clearer narrative through line, “Weird shit’s going on with a really powerful moon cult and everyone needs to stop them.”

[@Random_Kelsey]

*Other aspects* --First-Watch Bias: Many people joined CR with C2. It was often their first experience with the fantastical world of Exandria, livestreamed D&D, the players, and all the emotional highs and lows. This gives them a natural affinity to the campaign and perhaps some rose-tinted glasses. Me and my sibling started CR with C1, however, and both had a harder time getting into C2 because a lot of the shock value had disappeared. We'd faced tense moments between characters, the strength of forged bonds, the excitement of great triumphs, and the fears of tense combat, and so a repeat of that didn't bring about the same intensity as the first. That's why it's not surprising to either of us that C3 feels even more bland given how used we are to the general _feels_ of a campaign, but C2 watchers are experiencing the burnout for the first time. There's also a general forgetfulness among C2 watchers that there were also a lot of meandering, slow episodes in C2 as well. --Lack of character-focused arcs: This is my biggest complaint with the campaign. C1 and C2 came to have such strong characters because so much of the both stories were driven by the characters' existence and interaction with the world in present and past. C3 has been too focused on the Apogee and Ludinus for my personal preference for me to care much about the characters or their bond. The team-building exercises helped a little, but it felt too little too late. For example, Ashton and FCG are supposed to be a bonded pair, having started the campaign together, but look how rarely they talk to one another. --Lack of environmental engagement: By this, I mean the setting. C1 had a pretty generic fantasy world setting, but it worked well being the introduction campaign to the show. There was plenty of variety constantly hopping between locations, continents, and the different planes to keep things interesting. C2 has its wonderful dynamic between the coast, empire, and dynasty, and it held a crucial role in guiding the plot. For me, C3's setting does nothing. There are some cool locations, but I don't feel like it presents anything distinct. Part of me wonders if the cast is hesitant to delve deeper into the culture of Marquet like they did in C1 over fears of being called racist and colonialists again.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

Some thoughts on your thoughts. *First watch bias* Absolutely. I also came in in at C1 albeit kind of late, and C2 never fully hooked me. There is certainly a big element of the first big long form campaign is special and others don’t have the same wow factor, but even bigger IMO is the impact of narrative style on your tastes. C2 had a somewhat more frenetic adventure style “Oh, we must go here now! Oh, we must go there now! Oh we’re doing this now! …What were we doing again?” Which if you got into it with C2 is fine because that’s the style you came to love, but for me the frenetic juggling of about four different unconnected plots didn’t do for me. Which is why I think I personally like C3 over C2, because the narrative feels a lot more laser focused now. The Bells go on vany mini adventure to be sure, but there’s still the main narrative line of the Rudeus plot. *Lack of character focused arcs* See here I both agree and disagree with what you’re saying. On the one hand there are less character focused adventures than C2 but I would argue that’s actually a good thing. Hear me out: like I mentioned before, C2 really felt frenetic in how the M9 were always jumping after some new narrative thread that may or may not be related to any other quest. And part of that was that ever character had there own mini-narrative to the table that Matt very dutifully tried to give equal time to each. But I think that’s precisely why C2 felt so all over the place. And for me at least I like how their character building has been in relation to the looming threat, which is a bit closer to how it was in C1. But I also recognize that is also a matter of personal taste and the stronger focus on individual character arcs over a main plot is not a bad thing, it’s just a different style. But conversely I would argue the opposite is true, that focusing on a overarching main plot also isn’t bad, it’s just different. And it comes down to what your personal preference is. *Lack of environmental engagement* Now this is where I hard disagree with you, because there is environmental engagement. Rudeus. It’s been the constant environmental factor throughout the campaign. Everything ties into it and figuring out what’s going on. So there is indeed environmental engagement, but with arguably the last unexplored environment. That being said, there are a few factors with Rudeus being the primary environmental engagement that some people might not latch onto. First, more than any other environmental factor Rudeus gives off this aura of dread, and kind of an oppressive atmosphere to the entire campaign that can be a bit hard to get into if you’re not into that sort of thing. Second, the actual event of exploring Rudeus came very, very late into the campaign. And asking people to wait this long until we finally get to it can be a big ask. But I personally feel that the way we were drip fed little bits of information as time went on helped to keep up that engagement and that sense of “WTF is going on with that moon?” Now if you don’t really feel hooked by Rudeus as an environment that’s fine because it’s totally a matter of personal taste. But I would argue it’s not a matter of there’s no environmental engagement but rather the environmental engagement this campaign just isn’t for you. Which is perfectly fine. Some additional thoughts: One aspect that I think might also affect the appeal of C2 over C3 is the age of the characters. C2’s cast had a lot of young hot people in it, and they at times had the vibe of a bunch of college friends going on adventures. And to put fine a point on it, but most of the people who have time to watch a long form campaign like Critical Role are high school and college aged, so the M9 with its cast of young hot disasters trying to figure out there way in the world is something those age groups can identify with. Meanwhile you have the Bells, who consist of a much older geriatric man, an undead woman in her 50s who looks kind of withered, an ageless robot, a widower, and an incredibly cynical woman in her 30s. Out of all Bells, Fearne and Ashton really are the only young people and with much older than his years Ashton acts, Fearne’s the only one who feels like a young person exploring the world for the first time. Which maybe one the reasons so many fan artists latch onto her, because she feels more of an age that CR’s primary demographic can latch onto.

[@hhylobates4098]

​@@hfar_in_the_skyYou have no idea what they mean by environmental engagement is you think 80 episodes without it is fine. The characters dont even have it with the moon *now*, theyre exploring a foreign place as outsiders, there is no personal connection with the place or the people same as down on Marquet. Who cares about a looming sense of dread of they don't care for the thing its looming over? How can we worry about damage or twisting changes to the world if no one knows how it works at present. They have acted mostly as tourists in Marquet from the start, they are not like the Nein or Vox who cared for Whitestone and Emon, or Nicodranas and the Empire. And the age/demographic argument dosent add up either. Its the same average age of 25~35, with the overall level of immaturity weighing out over number of years.

[@kyleash]

Fully agree with your second point about character arcs. It feels like Matt didn't want to follow the same formula as C1 & C2 and went with a different story telling format. It makes sense on paper and sounds more natural and akin to real life, the characters go on one big journey while learning and growing as people along the way, unfortunately, the character story moments are too far apart to meaningfully build tension, the main plot is quite demanding making every side plot feel like it's on a countdown. Adding on to that, since Imogen is so deeply connected to the main plot than any other PC (plus she has the one on-screen romance which also takes up a bunch of time), it just feels like one big Imogen character arc and everyone else is just tagging along. Every major story moment is connected to her. This is only worsened by that fact that half the party considers her to be some sort of super-human savior of the planet and how she's the center of the world, Laura however seems to be fighting this sentiment every chance she gets though xD C3 simply feels like a massive combination of unfortunate circumstances. Divinity plot with PC's who don't really care about the divine, plot focused campaign with only one character tied into the plot making every other PC feel like lackeys, several characters who barely have any strong connections to the world (be it people or places). It's no C2 but I'm still thoroughly enjoying it, and the cast seems to be having a fun time so I don't care too much. Just a sour feeling every now and then.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

@@kyleash That is one critique of C3 that I fully agree with, which is how how Imogen-centric the main plot feels at times. She's a fine enough character, but the way everyone kind of treats her as the main hero/team leader is a bit weird to me. The team leader bit in particular because I never got team leader vibes from her, and then out of the blue Orym suggests she would make a great team leader. At that moment I was like "What?" Overall I still prefer C3 over C2, but even I'm willing to admit C3 is not without its flaws

[@kyleash]

@@hfar_in_the_sky I don't mind Imogen as a team leader, she's smart, level-headed and charismatic, plus none of the other party members really stepped up at any moment, so someone had to. Some of the party members heralding her as 'The chosen one' rubs me the wrong way. Well then again, this could also be a cool character moment cause it sounds like Imogen herself wants to be anything but that, pretty intriguing. Also this situation feels eerily similar to how Ludinus is building an image of Liliana as some sort of mystical prophet amongst the Rudian's.

[@Octy_in_Boots]

I miss the fan art reel so much. It always made my day when my stuff popped up! Campaign 3 is really hard for me to care about. The character designs are incredible, of course, but the story just doesn't draw me in like M9 did. I completely lose track of combat, too. I don't know how to describe it other than empty.

[@Deelusi]

Yes! I totally agree. C3 felt really empty yet so full at the same time. I think that's caused by the characters not having any roots in the place that they're in. Like... Only Ashton grew up in Marquet while the rest are from Zeprah and across Taldorei.

[@jb-wc1hx]

Yeah, I liked how the Mighty Nein had many smaller story arcs. It felt like each character had their own segment for development at different paces, as opposed to the Ruidus debacle that they’ve been fighting sense the early episodes. I also liked how lived in the world felt. You could really feel the difference in atmosphere between the Dwendalian Empire, Cryn Dynasty, and Menagerie coast. This still is present in C3 just to a smaller degree, but it’s hard for us to be immersed into the cultures when the cast is being lead at a breakneck pace trying to stop the end of the world.

[@mojojojoplus2]

@@Deelusi It was fun having many of them introduced to a new city in the beginning, the EXU people were an audience stand in, seeing the city for the first time like all of us. The time in Jrusar was the most enjoyable part of the campaign. They didn't spend enough time in any of the other places for them to feel like real places. I think Dorian leaving also threw off the group dynamic in a way that they've never readjusted to. It was also not coincidentally when the party first left Jrusar, leaving them in a new place both geographically and in terms of party dynamic. I don't think the campaign ever quite found its footing again.

[@Alex-ut9ew]

@@Deelusi I think Imogen grew up in the Taloned Highlands in Marquet, which reinforces the issue that we've seen so little of those character connected areas that it's easily forgotten.

[@hhylobates4098]

​@@DeelusiEven Ashton, being born on another continent to a people turned to dust, has been an outcast in Marquet, so he dosent really have personal ties to the setting. Other than his handful of "friends" who haven't been much more than "I know a guy" contacts.

[@afton7205]

Fan art is literally the only reason I started watching CR. I kept seeing the same blue tiefling on pintrest as well as a goblin with a mask and a red headed buddy. The fan art was so good I HAD to know where they came from.

[@Deelusi]

THE POWER OF ADVERTISING!

[@dharmeshmistry342]

Literally the exact same way I learned of CR. It was a little comic of Nott in the snow talking to Caleb while drinking.

[@morbidnumbskull]

Here's my take based (on my own experience) When Campaign 2 came out, I was just starting to get into DnD and me being new to the whole world of DnD/TTRPG Mighty Nein instantly clicked for me, because the setting started out simple, just your basic adventure with well defined party members. In short it was newbie friendly and it attracted a lot people that i know that arent even interested in DnD or high-fantasy in general. Then it gradually became grander adventure with their quest to stop the war and later on to defeat the Somnovem. As for Campaign 3, it's such a big story, a huge culmination of lore that's finally going to reshape the entire Exandrian universe. BH never got to develop their chemistry like M9 did. To me the crew didnt feel like *Bell's Hells* it's more like "Imogen and Friends" .

[@blackmage471]

The fanart would be nice to see again. The reason why they're not doing it is because it's a lot of work for their crew to do each week. But the real problem is C3's pacing. The group is suffering from analysis paralysis, and whole strings of episodes will go by and all they've done is bicker about plans with the occasional lewd joke here or there, and or try to befriend every enemy they encounter, or talk to farmers expecting them to know the inner workings of the ruling class. It is a real shame because I really like most of the characters, especially Laudna.

[@PocketKanin]

or want to go check out a bull while running from a storm 🙄 Last episode all they did was talk to 2-3 people and slept, it was So Boring! Their analysis paralysis is so bad right now, all they do is talk plans or fight because they just stood around.

[@chalmersmathew4831]

I’m not caught up but I hated that everyone was thinking “oh what if Ludinus is right” and Orym is the only guy just stating the fact that the bad guys only seem to be killing good people!

[@oh4540]

I actually got into critical role because of S3, as it was the first thing I happened to watch and I ended up getting super invested. I actually did stop watching S3 for quite a few months when Dorian left - tbf he was my favourite character back then. However, since the Bassuras Arc I’ve been hyper-invested, and I’ve almost caught up with the whole campaign after about 4 weeks of obsessively watching it. As S3 is my first campaign, and my first experience of Critical Role, I haven’t seen anything wrong with it. I’ve been enjoying every moment, and have strongly felt this way since around episode 30. Maybe the people who watched the previous campaigns have a different experience of what Critical Role used to be like? But I’ve been loving this journey, enough to have spent almost a month watching about 220 hours worth of it. I’ve never been this invested something in my life, I’ve cried for these characters and laughed with them. It’s also fun seeing the cast have fun. My only problem was Dorian leaving, he was the reason I started watching, so for a long time I had no reason to keep watching before I finally started watching again and gained a deep appreciation for this whole found family. I love them all, but I understand why the people who watched previous campaigns might think it doesn’t feel right.

[@aaronwhite1882]

Campaign 3 was my first time watching Critical Role (barring the first 30 minutes of the first episode of Campaign 1, which I couldn't get into). I was devastated when Dorian left, cause I didn't know Robbie was a part of the main cast. I always wondered why he wasn't in the intro, but didn't think too much of it.

[@Anna-cp4po]

I watched from the very beginning, and I personally love campaign 3! Yeah it needed to grow on me a little, maybe a tiny bit longer than campaign 2. But that one also needed some time for me. They just have a bit different storytelling styles. But both are just as good for me. The Dorian problem is also getting fixed now :3

[@DapperDanLovesYou]

The integrated fan art _absolutely_ helped ME visualize the characters and important scenes. I think this helped boost engagement in *many* ways, retaining a person's attention after 2+ hours, because the art made it easier to imagine, remember, and reminded you of what the world “looks like.” It also helped reinforce story arcs! For someone like me with weak mental imagery, this was crucial! --- Another detractor (for me) is the story structure + recording schedule. In C1 and C2, the final “big bad” was introduced in the later game. This gave us solid, definable arcs and story beats. This helped cultivate a consistent feeling of tension and _release._ That _release_ is VERY important. By having smaller “contained” stories, a sense of accomplishment and success permeates the campaign. They might not have saved the world, but they helped a small town, or saved their friend's family! This creates a satisfying, small-scale challenge for lower-level characters to succeed! In C3, the (seemingly) final “big bad” has been known since approx. E32 (Aug 2022), maybe even a little before. Releasing 3 episodes a month, that gives us approx. 36 episodes a year! These 2 changes alone would be impactful, but not wholly damaging. However, in conjunction, they compound on each other and reinforce a feeling of “spinning tires.” We've known about the “big bad” for literal YEARS, but we've only been able to make small, incremental steps toward a singular goal. This creates a large, oppressive scale that gives a constant feeling of inadequacy. The characters are playing “catch up,” and they're very aware that they are not prepared to fight one of the most powerful beings to ever live. Since we've been aware of the “big bad” since 2022, the slower upload schedule makes it feel like very little progress is being made. This creates constant tension, and very little release, which is unsatisfying and FEELS slow. --- Now, I am in no way suggesting they should go back to 4 videos a month. They ran at that pace for YEARS and, as we've seen with so many KZbinrs, that pace simply isn't sustainable. There's also nothing inherently wrong with a larger, singular story. Combined, however, they work against the “easier to digest” stories of C1 and C2.

[@luvnotvideos]

I really think you hit it on the head with this analysis! Yes, the "spinning wheels" analogy is perfect for how this season has dragged on. For such a high-stakes, time sensitive story, two years is WAY too long to drag it out. And we've little to no payoff in characters during that time, which C2 gave us in spades.

[@Midori_Seabreeze]

Factor in that large break they had… I swear it was like two months without content from the campaign. That’s where they lost my drive, my persistence and eagerness to await an episode. Like I get that they need breaks, but I felt absolutely blindsided. And yeah, that’s a me problem. So what I did to prevent that feeling again was build up a backlog of episodes to catch up on during this “break.” And then they didn’t take one. And now… I’m behind.

[@DapperDanLovesYou]

@@Midori_Seabreeze I tried to keep up, but I just find myself “not caring.” So I'll probably either do a binge of edits, or just Right Arrow my way through the videos and try to catch up at some point 🤔 Right now, I'm really looking forward to more seasons of VM and the confirmed season of M9 :D

[@bingbongalong]

Couldn't have said it better myself

[@mentalrebllion1270]

I love and miss the fanart section, for sure!

[@imjumokay]

I'm waiting until the campaign ends, because people had similar complaints mid-CR2! But I also felt like CR3 has had way less fanart. As I was catching up I really wanted to see fanarts of the Ashton's transformation and the Nana Mori bonding arc, but there just wasn't as much, especially compared to similar moments in CR2. I also feel like the lack of inter-character interactions due to the ticking timebomb of Ruidus has contributed to the disjointed feeling. CR2 had urgency too, but it still had the time to explore everyone's stories. This time around, the characters aren't a family, they don't trust eachother and they shouldn't. And I think that's fine, that makes for different, but still interesting dynamics, like Imogen loving Laudna but still not being able to trust her. But there's not much time to dig into that on the battlefield. I still think there's time to explore them-- like I said, CR2 also had some lulls, and I don't think Ashton will be the last person to have a blow up in the group. But there just has to be a different motivation, with Matt planting seeds around (like the journey to the shattered teeth connecting to Ashton's background) because "We're a family and we love and support eachother..." isn't gonna work as well this time around. The gods are getting eaten! If we're going to explore your background, its not because we love you (though we do), its because you're important to the mission.

[@greyscaleadaven]

Yeah a lot of the C1 crowd also did this mid-C2 because it was so different from the first campaign (especially during the sailing expedition to get fjord his balls). A lot of it IMO is just nostalgia blinding, because both stories have a lot to offer. Idk, if people don't watch CR anymore or don't enjoy it as much great for them yk? Just don't see why there needs to be a justification why someone drifts away from media or doesn't prefer it. Like just because someone prefers C2 doesn't mean there has to be an objective reason why related to the quality of the show or something. C3 has given some of the most engaging plot we've had in a long while, while C2 focused more on character which was also great. C1 has a great animated show too! There can be multiple cakes, or a cake and a pie that different people like for different reasons I guess.

[@Anna-cp4po]

I agreed woth waiting till it ends. Especially now, i feel like in 80-90 something mark everything is comming together more and more. Yeah it took a while. But I also feel like it made sense at that time. I love where this is going now tho

[@silverbro13]

The Mighty Nein were EXTREMELY grounded characters, and for the most part the only flaw in their adventure was that there were a lot of wasted episodes, but in terms of where the characters went, what they did, there was always a VERY direct connection to someone's backstory somehow.

[@Adam-sx2mn]

i think they need something that binds them a little tighter then what we have so far. Vox Machina felt like it was a family from the get go. Mighty Nein did to because of the way they acted and treated each other. Bells Hells feels like just a group of people who were waiting for the bus together and yeah some of them have some close interpersonal relationships but they don't really feel like they are all that bonded together. i think thats part of it. like they could all cut and run at any moment and it wouldn't loose anything. i feel like they need to be MORE involved some how more closer knit together. a few events pushed that pretty close but it still feels like it doesn't quite have that spark yet.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

As much as I love C3, I have to agree with you here. It is difficult to feel like the Bells are a cohesive group because it exactly like you said that any of them feel like they can cut and run at any time. And in fact a number of them have considered it. Hopefully the team building exercise helped with that but I do hope they develop more of that tight feeling as a team going forward

[@wraccoresxenos2212]

It also helped that there was nothing to do during lockdown and I just decided to binge Mighty Nein constantly

[@joetheschmoe1066]

I believe this is probably the biggest reason c3 compared to the other 2 feels less popular and less interesting. Its not so much that its not popular anymore but that the other 2 got an inflated popularity rating due to the pandemic and people having time to binge and watch them whereas now its much more Ill pick it up later when I have time.

[@lapple8]

I agree with the fanart theory! Also, I like the story but I also think a big reason why it feels so strange is how SO much backstory was revealed very early on because of "What the F*** is up with that?" It was fun to watch but they revealed some pretty important character backstory stuff and it felt like they knew so much about each other while also hardly even knowing each other so no real trust or understanding was built from it I think. Weirdly, I feel like chetney has the most connection within the group because he didn't share his huge backstory stuff right away and he didn't learn about all the others right away either. Trauma dumping is a thing, and it honestly feels fitting for bells hells to do it so readily but it is not really an effective or healthy way of building trust and understanding with people. To me, the trust feels forced, like they want to trust each other but they don't and I think it's because they don't seem to understand each other. A lot of what is going on with a character, like what they're thinking and how they're feeling is also told to us directly instead of coming from the characters talking to each other and I think that adds on to the characters not seeming to connect with and understand each other. The characters don't seem to really understand themselves either which I think makes sense for the characters but I think it creates even more of a disconnect among the group. In comparison to M9, if they had played What the F is up with that, (and if the characters shared so much so willingly which they probably wouldn't) a lot of the character moments that revealed a lot about them and I think helped them connect with each other better probably wouldn't have happened, like Nott talking about Caleb and saying "I protect HIM he's my boy" or Beau and Nott being the only ones to know about Caleb and his parents for a while so Beau looked out for Caleb the next time he shut down because of trauma. Or when Jester and Nott decided to send a letter to Astrid thinking it was a good idea because they didn't know enough about her relationship with Caleb yet and it caused stuff to happen later on in the story. Their hesitance to share certain things about themselves made it feel more important when they finally did share those things with each other, and they took the vulnerability more seriously I think. Like Fjord, Beau and Caduceus calling Nott brave for joining them underwater for the whole Uk'otoa thing after they learned about why she is so scared of water when they hadn't taken it very seriously before. Or Jester's talk with Caduceus when he was panicking about maybe not being on the right path after he chose to leave home. Basically, I think the members in bells hells feel a lot more disconnected from each other and I am not sure if it's intentional but I do think it fits the characters even though it feels off and strange. (Though, it's entirely possible that it just feels more disconnected to me because I have been watching the episodes as they come out and occasionally falling behind and catching back up relatively slowly whereas with M9 I watched one after the other relatively quickly.)

[@JinglesRasco]

I was so blessed to make it onto the fanart reel twice in the past, but these days, I don't have much of a motivation to. I'm not saying that the lack of the fanart section has made me not want to draw as much, but I can say that the CHANCE that my drawings could POSSIBLY be put up on the streams for the Critters to see, then that DOES help motivate me to draw more. Haha.

[@Deelusi]

Years ago, I once got featured on Pewds video and boih. This brain likes dopamine 😌🎉

[@Deelusi]

One more idea that I failed to clearly convey is. The removal of Fan Art Reel leads to the decrease of fanarts. (Because it is enticing to draw fan art for CR due to the chance to be featured). And so- it impacts the internet presence of CR via artist through the medium of fan art.

[@onesaltydoge3105]

I love the new(?) avatar, its really sick! I kinda dropped off critical role in campaign 3 for a lot of reasons, but I gotta say the fanart was one thing that constantly kept me invested in M9's game. I do feel like CR's general drop in popularity after the pandemic (people just have less time to watch it) might also be contributing to the lack of fanart. I do think you have a point, the fanart section was big and its a shame to lose it

[@Deelusi]

Especially when the fanart is in the form of a comic. Those kinds of fan art really emphasize small moments in the show.

[@andresguevara1695]

As someone that only watch CR on mondays, I always skip the breaks. I mean, the fanart was cool but I never really cared about it. My problem with C3 is that I don't feel any emotional attachment to the story nor the character (except Orym), but I still haven't been able to pinpoint why

[@PocketKanin]

i feel that, only one i like is Orym and that’s only cuz i like the small brave hero type. i’m just waiting for orym to see/talk to dorian again because you know he’d cheer orym up and make him feel better, hell the whole party needs that happy bard back, they need confidence 😭 and not the type chetney/ashton/fearne has of “fck everyone else”

[@TamTroll]

i think the main thing that makes campaign 3 feel "off" for people is that it actually has a single campaign-long planned overarching story. There's much less hopping around from plot to plot to plot, and more dealing with the one major plot we actually have. In C1, you have your horn of Orcus, your briarwoods, your chroma conclave, your aramente, your teryon kidnapping, your vecna, your whatever else In C2, you have your circus tragedy, your gentlemen bit, your pirate arc, your angel of irons, your uk'otoa(ukotoa), your cleansing the grove, your trent ikathon, and whatever else. In C3, you have "The moon is a cage for a god-killer, and basically everything else revolves around that to some degree." I mean think about it. Chetny has a moon-based lycanthropy that is acting weird in relation to the red moon. Imogen is a powerful psychic with moon-based powers, Ferne was specifically born under the red moon intentionally and hidden away her whole life to protect her from that, Ashton was infused with Titan-DNA as a child, with Titans being one of the forces that imprisoned the god-killer in the moon to begin with, and Orym's family was killed in a fight that was basically a trial run to ensure that the key to access the moon would show up if the right person was threatened. Basically the only person who DOESN'T have something related to the Moon or it's history so far is Fresh Cut Grass, and even then we found something very similar to his power core on the moon in just the latest episode. And even then, he's the most god-dedicated person of the lot, so he has a personal, vested interest in making sure the gods are NOT killed. So basically, i think Campaign 3 feels different because rather then having multiple unrelated plot arcs, it's all one overarching arc, and everyone has more or less the same goal. No one is "just along for the ride". Personally if i could adjust anything about the campaign to make it really stand out, I'd follow through on the whole "magic doesn't work right" thing that felt like was happening shortly after the bloody bridge was created. Everyone was flung around the world, and unable to sending one another and magical lights were no longer working right. I thought this was directing the campaign into a slightly lower-magic setting, where certain spells just don't work anymore, and people are going to need to rely on more mundane or technological methods. But if that was ever the idea, it was sadly dropped, and the only consequence on magic from opening the bridge was the lack of the sending spell, which didn't really affect things all too much, and was recently kind of casually brushed aside without too much explanation? have my own little theory about that, but that's neither here nor there.

[@lisa_42]

Yes I think you got what was bothering me, it feels like the first seasons were revolving around characters to get invested in and then learning about each other as they wend while now it feels like I only see stuff about one plot point that each character slightly has ties with. (Mind you I haven't really seen any of it and just interacted with the fandom)

[@zane4218]

I do think the lack of distinction between arcs (I won’t say the complete lack of arcs), with one goal the majority of the campaign has made things feel like we are treading slower. When these campaigns are 100+ episodes of 4 hour streams, being committed to one story the whole time imo makes it feel like we have progressed less and accomplished less. That said, I purely mean this in relation to C2 and I still want to give much love to any CR members reading this! The answer is not to avoid experimenting and to not change what is working. I am still enjoying the campaign and the answer is definitely not to Marvel the franchise by keeping the formula the same every time.

[@dnmz1885]

Honestly I don't know why but C3 just didn't get it hooks in me. I knew it would be different from C1 and C2 but still. It took 5 episodes for C1 and 1 episode of C2 to grab me. I gave C3 50 episodes but still nothing. Interestingly, in the beginning I was kinda feeling it. But after Robbie left. Well...

[@Darkhourglass]

I cant think of a good way to contribute to the conversation so I will just say. I enjoyed hearing your opinion and seeing your drawing accompanying the thoughts! I too feel campaign 3 is off but I cant put my finger on why.

[@Brooke_Corbyn]

I remember when a loud part of the community of artists got really mad at CR for featuring fanart without paying artists for it. I think a huge shift happened after that convo. Having never been featured and not being a professional artist, i cant really give my 2 sense on it, but i can say that like you, i really miss it

[@Midori_Seabreeze]

Ugh, why do a smaller group of people have to ruin it for the rest of us? I miss the fan art. I’ll admit I saw a couple of stolen pieces-some even featured in the same reel. That was embarrassing to watch. If they want compensation, don’t submit their work. Simple as that. Post it on their own website. What entitlement, sheesh.

[@uninvincibleete]

This is so wild because they ask the artists for permission (speaking from experience, multiple times), and the artists get a big bump to their followers by being featured in the reel. As far as I can tell CR also only took art that was tagged CriticalRoleFanart so they'd want to be featured. Feels like people who didn't get featured coming up with bad faith complaints tbh.

[@sandstormxx]

I think the fanart was removed because people kept submitting fanart that wasn't there own. It's easier to remove it from the website, which they post weekly, then embed in the video. And with AI artwork being submitted and having been removed from the website recently, it was probably the correct decision. Fanart is important, but I still see it on twitter and tumblr so I'm not sure it not being in the video really does anything. Especially since i watch the VOD and usually skip through the break.

[@sandstormxx]

like they do feature the fanart on the website and i do see ppl still get really excited on twitter, so I'm not really sure it's quite as big as a deal as people suggest. Campaign 3 feels different to campaign 2 as it's a different story and style people don't like as much, and that's the main reason.

[@MISTERALPHAX]

D&D main point > to have fun. I like the way Campaign 3 is going. Campaign 1 was having fun and get to play charater they like. Campaign 2 was more impact and understanding thier character back story

[@houndgirl7365]

CR tried to keep fanart people hot jealous their stuff wasnt being shown, so yes in a way critters ruined it for themselves. The other point a person brought up is apparently people were claiming art that wasn't theirs to claim. Yes its rough not seeing the art for characters, but also understand there are loads of reasons like copyright. The last point is the staff would have to vet closely every work just because AI is such a problem right now in the art community, so yes its a bummer but its also not feasible. Yes campaign 3 is a bit rough, but its likely because we are tying loose strings for a change in which system is used or the end of this world as we know it.

[@LiquoriceandSpice]

I adore C3, but I totally get where people are coming from. It was fanart of Jester and a friend of mine who told me that my 1st D&D character reminded him a lot of her, so I jumped into CR during the pandemic! *SPOILER STUFF* I do think there's too much urgency with the C3 plot now they're on Ruidus though, the characters are super interesting but we've not had enough time to explore them, apart from Imogen! When Bell's Hells were split apart and we got more of those conversational moments, it really drew me in and I was loving the development. C2 had plenty of moments to explore the characters, even when time was against them. I'm hoping with the latest episode having the party split again we'll get more exploration, particularly with Fearne & Ashton - they're my faves and they're WAAAAY overdue for an important talk about where they are with each other.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

As someone who also adores C3, C2 to me went a little too hard in the other direction where IMO it had to much character driven adventure and not enough of a cohesive main plot. But I can agree that I’d love to see a bit more character exploration in C3. Part of it I think was how bad the loss was at the first Battle of the Red Center was. The Bells were getting some amazing character development but then they got their asses kicked. I think from a righting standpoint having them lose was a brilliant bit of subversive writing where the heroes fail, the main antagonist gets everything he wanted, and even the heroic cavalry charge was absolutely dashed. But for better or worse it did knock the Bells back a few steps in terms of their development as a group and they’re having to play catchup.

[@uninvincibleete]

Also 2 fanart specific things: 1. I think part of the reason there's less fanart is these characters are harder to draw! Yasha is pretty quick but Fearne takes ages. Molly was complicated but not compared to Ashton. Etc. 2. Unfortunately a lot of people got super toxic about the fanart section. People would stop being fans and would want their art removed from uploaded past streams (so much work for the crew!!), and people felt entitled to being featured, so much so that they would message artists who were featured and tell them stuff like 'seeing your art and not mine made me want to unalive myself'. I also know Liam used to be a big part of selecting fanart, and I imagine with the animated series and other things he doesn't have as much time for that anymore. There's also the issue of tracers (or nowadays, AI) being featured on accident. There are probably a bunch of other reasons we don't even know about. I think the fanart section was awesome, but I 100% understand why they wouldn't feel it's worth it anymore.

[@spencerbingham7461]

I'm newer to CR, having spent the last year or so catching up and I'm about halfway through C3 right now, but from what I've seen so far, the way that Matt handles the overarching story has been very different in each campaign. I believe this is part of the reason why people tend to resonate more with one campaign specifically rather than all three. C1 was his classic fantasy epic, with tons of focus on large connected arcs with important stakes tied to the world the characters grew up in. The most "LOTR-esque" of the three, C1's greatest strength in my mind was that because the cast was still relatively new to the game, they allowed him to take the reins more than usual concerning the direction of the plot. Now, I don't believe that players having control over the story is bad for dnd or even bad for CR, I for one believe very strongly that a player-controlled story is what makes this game so fun. But the fact is when there's less input from the players the story, from a viewers perspective, is much more cohesive, and we saw this in the absolutely legendary final act of C1. It was very well put together, with an epic final fight, great character resolutions, and a satisfying and NATURAL (which is very hard to do in dnd) ending to the plot. Vax's resolution was beautiful and tragic, Vex and Percy's ending was so fitting with Percy finally becoming the leader he was meant to be and Vex finally earning her place in nobility. Grog got to live out his days happy as a 500lb muscled lark, Scanlan got to spend time with his daughter, and Keyleth completed her Aramente and took her place as Voice of the Tempest. Pike had a kind of ok resolution in my opinion but it's hard to get super invested in a character when they're not there half the time so it is what it is I guess. But most importantly in my eyes, the best part of the resolution was the group, formerly known as the literal shits, learning to care about the people of their home and truly becoming selfless heroes. It was amazing seeing the story of not just Vox Machina, but of the players learning to really care about the game as Matt guided them. C2 had very different strengths. As I see it, at the beginning of C2 the cast had finished a campaign and they were ready to really make the story more their own. The character backstories are way more complex and fleshed out in these characters, and Matt, like the legend he is, gave each of them opportunities to resolve their own arcs regardless of how they interacted with the main story. In this way, and this is my opinion, the characters of campaign 2 are WAY more compelling than those of campaign 1. Caleb, Veth, Ford, Molly, Caduceus, Yasha, Jester, even Beau in her own way all had moments throughout the story that hit incredibly hard. It's not that C1 didn't have these moments, far from it, but in C2 these moments are far more plentiful at the cost of making the plot a bit more disconnected. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, just a different style that inevitably arises when Matt chose to give his players more control. So when the C1 crowd tuned in for C2, I imagine it was an experience similar to turning on the TV expecting the Return of the King and getting Arcane. Not worse by any means, just different. Don't get me wrong, I still love the story of the M9, and I think the way that Matt ties the setting into the overarching plot is nothing short of masterful, but I find it hard to justify saying the overall plot is more compelling than that of C1. The Jury's still out on C3 in my book, but if I were to try to pinpoint a cause for why it feels so disjointed at the moment I think I would pin it down to two things: Lack of control over the setting and increased character diversity. Please keep in mind I am only around C3E24 at the moment so this may change as I go further into the series. First, lack of control over the setting. This is the first time where Matt brought on outside writers to fill in the lore of the setting and I believe that while it does provide a fresher, more complex setting, it also disconnects it from the main story. As the setting is defined more and more, both by the players and the writers, it lessens Matt's creative freedom surrounding how it interacts with the story. Where in C2 the setting was crafted to fit the plot, here the plot is crafted to fit within the setting. I believe this is why Ruidus is the most compelling part of the world, because Matt has crafted it for the plot and not the other way around. As for increased character diversity (before you burn me alive I'm not talking about gender, sexuality, or race stuff so calm down) this is simply a natural consequence of the players getting more experienced with the game and wanting to try new things. What I mean by this is the cast looks at the existing character options and they begin picking more fringe stuff. 2 of the characters have custom subclasses, two are multiclassed (right now), one is from the feywild, and almost all of them are from different continents. While none of these are bad individually or even taken together for a regular dnd game, when viewed as an audience member, it's much harder to find a coherent, convincing narrative when Matt has to somehow keep this oddball group together with more creative restrictions than ever before. Far from writing a story, he has to spend so much work just keeping it going that it's hard to go beyond basic dnd stuff or one-off character specific missions. All this being said, I would say that C3 is probably a blast for the cast to play in, both because the world is so extensively developed and they each get to pursue their own story arcs. That is the strength of C3 in my opinion, and while it's certainly not bad to watch, it definitely feels less audience-centric. In short, as the cast grew more involved and experienced, the style of Matt's game shifted to accommodate a more player-focused story. While I don't believe this was necessarily a bad decision, or even one that has to make it more boring to watch, it ultimately places more creative restrictions on Matt as the DM and it makes it more difficult to appease both the players and the audience. P.S. I loved the fanart of C2 especially so much, I miss it so bad 😢

[@Brooke_Corbyn]

I will also say, lots of people said that about C2 as well, that it wasnt as good as C1. Some of that is i think just a part of change

[@DarcOne13]

Okay, you get a thumbs-up for "Because I love my Caleb Widowgast college professor AU with Essek!"

[@heyvedur]

To me the C3 characters feel too forced to be extra. Like they all started out with crazy backstories and "I'm not like other people" personalities and it just didn't feel natural to me. In C1 we had the backstories "I'm a bard" and "We are half-elves", but they somehow allowed for much more character growth and development. Some C2 characters also turned out to have crazy backstories, but only after we had 80 episodes of hints, speculations and cool development of group dynamics. So when they started to learn about each others dark secrets, all characters had reasonable intrinsic motivations to still stick together, rather than the reason of: well our players sit at the same table.

[@I_love_dark_souls_2_and_you]

another reminder for me to rewatch m9

[@johnsimth6587]

Which ever way it goes, I'm glad they did it and it led me to your channel because you rock.

[@Deelusi]

I'm glad you found this!

[@animatrobin1340]

I began to struggle when the campaign felt like it was being railroaded and character plots were being seen as diversions instead of development. When I was watching them *Spoilers* attempt to stop the Beam and Ludinus from getting the Moon, multiple times I had to pause cause of how it felt like Matt was denying the rolls the cast were getting to force the event forward no matter what, it came across as if he never had the intention of allowing them to prevent it, It was happening no matter what. and since then its been harder to watch.

[@ceridwenaeradwr8105]

Oooh! An excuse to lay out my opinions on C3! You don't know what you've done. This is all with the caveat that I still very much love Critical Role C3, and I'm not blaming anyone (least of all Matt!) for why I think it's not quite to the same level as the previous campaigns. If anything, I applaud them for taking the risk of doing things slightly differently, even if it's not working as well for me. On the fanart thing: *ABSOLUTELY*. I *Loved* the fanart reels so much. I would sit through them all, sometimes paying rapt attention, sometimes just getting out my tablet and sketching along and just glancing up every now and then, but it was brilliant to see the community's talent and creativity and *passion* on full display every single episode, and it was absolutely infectious! Even though there is *technically* a fanart gallery still up, it's really just not the same. And yes - not blaming them at all. I don't remember the specific reasoning, but iirc it was getting a little legally dicey to keep the fanart reels in the videos, and I totally get the necessity to stop, even though it breaks my heart. My own opinions about why C3 just isn't working as well for me as C2 (and C1!): - I'm not one to follow the intricacies of the worldbuilding & lore, and so... honestly, I got a bit lost. There were a lot of names and lore dumps and organisations that I just kind of tuned out of when Matt was explaining them - My personal opinion is that we were introduced to the big world-ending plot too quickly. I just like smaller, more personal stakes a lot more - and while Imogen *did* have a very personal stake in pursuing her mother and figuring out where her own powers come from, it was bogged down by aforementioned lore dumps (& had the unfortunate effect of painting Imogen to be almost the "main character", and making me wonder why... everyone else was there). And as you said - this group doesn't feel as much like a family as C2, and I would chalk that down to them not having as much time to mess around and dive into their personal storylines more before the main plot kicked them in the rear and went "RIGHT, time is ticking, get going". I'm not up to date on episodes so take my words with a grain of salt, but though they've now been exploring their backstory stuff in more detail, they feel a little more like side quests they have to rush through and think ahead on how they can get an advantage in the overarching plot. ------ C2 SPOILERS (I can't help but remember that while the threat of Cognouza was absolutely a big, climatic threat that the heroes needed to take down... really what the characters ultimately cared about (and the audience too!) was Molly/Lucien. He was the real reason they pushed themselves to go be the heroes, and I feel like both the characters and the audience is sorely missing that emotional lynchpin in C3. Though, to be fair - it was *SO WELL DONE* in C2, and occurred mainly out of pure chance that Molly as a PC DIED so early on, that it is a *pretty damn high* bar to meet!)

[@PocketKanin]

i feel like imogen’s mom is the one that’s closest to what could keep them there, but even in the end they write her off as a lost cause so the connection is essentially not there. it feels like the characters could just walk away 😭 and at this point i just want them to and relax happily far away cuz almost nothing for them would change if the big bad plan goes well or not.

[@calebwidogussy452]

Sometimes I feel like the cast is growing apart. Little arguments and snipes here and there. But also I think the pandemic has a lot to do with it. Our social gatherings disintegrated and CR live chat became a substitute. When they took a break to reorganize and finally came back, you could tell there was almost a desperation to them. There was so much passion and relief that they could be back together and play their game and the audience was jubilant as well. CR2 got me through some very dark times, and I saw the same sentiment in the Livestream. But now they've gone to pre-recorded standard and it just ISN'T THE SAME. I long for the days when Sam would watch the chat and react to something someone said and laugh or note a missed plot point. So much is different to be honest. I'm still pretty much caught up, but I don't feel the same draw to watch live that I once did. I think they've lost a lot of passion.

[@tyrian9471]

I started with C2 and I’m pretty much up to date with C3. While I do enjoy both campaigns, there have been more times in C3 where I haven’t been interested in what the party is doing. Obviously, part of that is because it isn’t a new experience for me, but it does feel specific to how this campaign is structured. The single overarching plot is good for getting the players and viewers to focus, but it’s detrimental for the player’s desire to explore. There have been so many essentially pointless detours in C3 that happen because it’s clear the players want a break from the Moon plot (the recent excursion to that abandoned lake town being a good example of this). The plot of C2 was more character focused, which led to more exploration of the world and the party, while C3’s plot is a slowly ticking time bomb. Both have their merits, but one is just inherently more fun for everyone involved. I really do enjoy Bells Hells, but I feel like the plot could’ve ended by now if they just focused on it. I kind of wish CR’s campaigns were just shorter, so they could explore other stories and characters/classes. The cast seems like they want to do the same, but finishing a story quickly and in a satisfying manner is not easy to do.

[@willowbird]

Someone had already mentioned this but there definitely is a first watch bias that happens with each campaign. Which ever campaign you start with, that party is going to be your favourite and the parties after are going to feel uninteresting. I myself fully joined the fandom during C3, so I am biased towards Bell’s Hells story, but I got introduced to CR because of C2 and I watched the highlights in order to keep up with the Mighty Nein’s adventures. I love BH with my whole heart, but I also love MN! Heck, I also love Vox Machina! When C4 comes along, a lot of the people who watched C3 are probably going to go through a similar problem and feel like the new campaign doesn’t hit right. But there are going to be new fans who will adore that new party, and that spark that we think the show has lost is actually still there burning bright for all the new critters that find Exandria! C1 was a classic fantasy story, C2 flipped those classic tropes on their head, and C3 is exploring a potential world altering event that will change the corse of their future campaigns. Each new instalment, every new tidbit of backstory makes me so excited for the future of this world that the cast has created for over a decade. I want to see these characters through and I want to meet the new party that will charm so many people. I have managed to enjoy each campaign, mainly because I try to see the new party’s story as something wholly new and it allows me to find something to love every time. I can have my gripes and my criticisms, but in the end I’m watching this to have fun and sometimes it’s good to grab onto the small things to help you through this epic journey. Also remember that even though the fan art reel isn’t there anymore, CR still has their weekly gallery and people are still creating and submitting their art. The fan art is still out there, and it’s just going to keep on going.

[@uninvincibleete]

Idk; I started with C2 and I consider C2 and C1 equally good (I go back and forth on which is my fave haha). I also know a lot of people who started with C1 and like C2 the best. There's something about C3 that's hitting different for some people.

[@willowbird]

@@uninvincibleeteI’ve seen both. There are people I know who have watched since the beginning that also love C1, C2, and C3 equally, but I have also seen people who have watched C1 say that they couldn’t get into C2. In the end I think it all comes down to preference. Some people are going vibe with things more than others and that is perfectly fine. I and many people enjoy C3 and many people don’t enjoy it, and that is alright.

[@LocalMaple]

Good comment on the fanart section. It bridged the gap between the company and the viewers. By being more personal, they were more accepted by the community. I already gave my Jester theory in the original post about this video. But I’d like to add something Talesin commented on in 4-Sided Dive: almost everyone feels like an NPC. It’s even the title of 4SD episode 2: Party of NPCs. When we think of NPC shows, we automatically think slice of life. They are NPCs, and we are seeing the common world through their experiences. Those anime cooking isekai play on this even more: we follow the two employees of the restaurant, but the wider world’s woes and wars are hinted at with their guest and meal of the week. What Campaign 3 is doing is trying to take mostly NPCs, and turning them into the destined heroes. Imogen is the only one with personal stakes in the overarching plot, Fearne and Laudna had side quests, FCG has a side quest and unexplored significance to the enemy’s forces, and the rest have little to nothing. All expressed a feeling of inadequacy to the goal, and the viewers believe them. Contrast this with Campaign 1, especially their animated version. The twins have a couple side quests, including confronting their father, then Vecna takes their sister hostage for the final fight; it’s personal. Keyleth has a side quest, but is the heart of the party; it’s personal. Percy had his personal quest, and his home became the base of operations; it’s personal. Grog is a walking side quest magnet, and is the comedy of the party, but his fight with his uncle is personal, and Vex handed over her HDYWTDT so he could have the final blow. Pike is a moral compass with a bad schedule which got worked into her character growth; she takes her time with them personally. Scanlan began as the comic relief with a literal joke character, but evolved into the most personal character of the team. How about campaign 2? Who does not take their overarching quests personally?

[@BornOfBooks]

My biggest issue with C3 so afr has been just how... Little hope there has been in many episodes. I'm not caught up, so I haven't watched the video yet (but I will!), and also don't know how things beyond about ep 70 go, but when a certain character died, I went on a hiatus for several months, and that wasn't even my favorite character. To be fair, I wasn't around/watching when Mollymauk died, so I don't really have anything to compare that to. Matt has said a few times he's telling a story for his players, not the audience but if the audience enjoys it then that's great. I think they're leaning into more difficult plot lines emotionally, and I'm not sure I trust them to tell a story I will continue to enjoy myself.

[@demogorghon]

I already said it on twitter but I am Podcast only Critter and for the longest time I didn't even know there is any fanart reel and C3 still feels off to me.

[@andrewcook3983]

Campaign 3 has the fewest number of romances between the characters. C1 had 2 and C2 had 2. In both of these Laura and Marisha had partners. In C3 they are in a partnership together and there doesn't seem to be any likelihood of any of the others of forming that bond, no matter how much Chet would like to get it on with Fern. In the previous campaigns, we get to meet a number of the characters' family members during the backstory elements. I think we only really explored FCG's, Orum's and Fern's family so far.

[@TylerWx]

I'd have to guess it's more of an issue with the players having played so much DnD now and so much together that it really doesn't have much "new" feel to them anymore. I can say as a DM myself it's very different running a game with players who don't already have a ton of experience compared to players who have been through multiple campaigns. Both can be fun though. I anticipate if there's a 4th campaign they will have more new full campaign players and some of the players we know will either not play at all or be the ones in guest spots.

[@3veraj]

Honestly, for me it's the lack of character interaction/role play. Mighty Nein was so intentional in nurturing their relationships with each other as well as NPCs. Everyone had their own special bonds with one another. Vox Machina also had awesome relationships but there were some gaps or little cliques. Bells Hells started out with the cliques and seemed to be headed towards everyone having special bonds and nurturing their relationships. But that all fell off HARD to the point that characters that came in together don't feel close anymore. Just look fat Orym, Fearne, and Dorian. Hell, they even addressed it on 4 Sided Dive a bit talking about how they haven't even had a conversation with Dorian now that he's back about what he's been through or what they've been through. He's still in the dark about the majority of what's going on and is basically just along for the ride. They're all just going through the motions and they'll "get to it eventually" as it was so eloquently brushed it off and moved onto the next subject. Imogen and Luanda have a wall between them. Ashton and FCG rarely spent time together and I can't remember the last time they had a 1 on 1 before FCG died. Chet is just a meme, but even the interesting dynamic he had with Dorian before he left is missing, he and Fearne haven't really communicated since the party got back together after the split. They're just not role playing with each other as much as they used to as they are just going through the motions of the story.

[@khorrusvoa]

The official art reels they have are pretty darn cool, but I remember binging C2, seeing the fan-art reel for the first time and being STUNNED by how many different artists put their brush to canvas (metaphorically) for the show, all of which was very good quality! Didn't skip a single reel for the rest of the campaign. I dearly hope they bring it back sometime.

[@oakenshadow6763]

I joined bevause of animations here on YT that fans made, as well as Matt's interveiw/hang out session with Jacksepticeye. It really drew me in. I usualy joined because of the community more than the actuall show.

[@noaramboa2913]

Unfortunately nowadays with the advent of ai any hope of the fan art section coming back is even deader in the water now, cr had already had to take down their weekly fan art gallery on their website on 3 different occasions due to ai “art” getting in, something that was easily fixable on a page of a website but would be an absolute nightmare to edit out of a vod in comparison

[@Echo-uv7ju]

C3 has been a harder listen for me, I started with m9 right as Bells Hells began, I had listened to a majority of Vox Machina (starting at the Briarwood arch because jumping in mid game is wildy disorienting) Vox Machina had characters that felt alive and while they fought within each other (Keyleths spell usage comes to mind especially here, as does Scanlan leaving for a while. Or Caleb presenting the Dodecaheron to the dynasty). Since I started listening to the Nein when the game started I was able to binge through to the current episode and I have found a few things interesting. 1) This group doesn't "fight within each other" they are a crew that is constantly one push away from shattering into a million pieces. 2) They are characters that could be so incredibly interesting, but it feels as though the Appogee Solstace being at the forefront has prevented them from truly developing who they are. Ashton is the guy who breaks stuff with a vague past, Orem is the good guy seeking a vengeful conclusion to a tragedy he experienced, Cheatney is the joke who has lived on past what he was anticipated to be. The only characters we have seen anything in notes of any big character movements from are Immogen and Laudna, and Laudna is begining to relapse. 3) There is a semi constant lack of consequence for their actions, they have been saved by level 20 characters from VM or M9 any time they couldn't handle the pressure. 4) Character Deaths felt inconsistent. When Bell died there was no real effort made to bring him back to have a chance at a successful story. Laudna's death lead to a delve down memory lane and a series of encounters that gave her character a more revealed nature of who she is/was. 5) Orem and to a lesser extent FCG/Ashton are the only "good guys" in a cluster of heavily bad people, Imogen is a 50/50 swinger for what side she will choose at this point, Laudna is a 90/10 choice favoring Imogen. Chet is a living Joke who is down to mess shit up, and Fearn is Chaos Incarnate. So the odds of the crew making the right decision is less likely than them fighting within one another like pirrahna or sharks with blood. 6) the anti-hero troupe that they almost all dance in the light of is overplayed severely right now: shows such as The Boys, Invincible and similar are quite popular right now leading to a lack of surprise when the troupes of the genera are played out such as FCG turning on his allies, or Imogen giving in.

[@Aloysius_OHare]

They lacked a LEADER, they kept just....doing nothing. When Dorian was around, it was a boom. People were tired because the group was lacking in someone to take heed...looking at each other. The fan art isn't really important, people just take longer on art because it takes time...😅

[@Deelusi]

That is also true! Whenever a character (usually also a leader) asked for the Bells Hell's representative. No one step up! Liek... It has been 70 episode???

[@PikaChu-sp2qo]

I feel like they're missing the glue. They don't have a believable glue, Jester was the M9's glue, she keeps their morale up, she has great relationship with every one else in the group. With BH, I don't buy why they have to stick together other than the meta knowledge that they're playing a game. I dropped the show since episode 30 or so, because I just don't believe Imogen would ever be friends with Chetney, or FCG would ever hang out with Laudna for example. They're too disjointed. Everyone has such different backgrounds and goals, I can't see why they would come together. Like that trip Chetney needed to make to control his wrewolf state, like.... why did everyone need to tag along for that? Why would Ashton care about the moon business with Imogen's mom? The team dynamic feels forced and awkward.

[@Aloysius_OHare]

@@Deelusi Orym has been PUSHING for Imogen to step up but it is clear to me that imogen doesn't want it. Laudna cant be the leader being delilah, FCG is just the murderhobo robot for his faith, Ashton is too awkward to be a leader, Fearne could be the leader but Ashley doesn't really clock into conversations and reasks questions which is cute. Chetney is the most SOLID character on their team. Travis used to be M9's leader with fjord. He was the front man but now that Marisha and him aren't in front asking all the questions, it's noticeable. Chetney is too....chetney😂 RTA of his own mind. A group like them are just not even trying, it was the whole reason Otohan whooped their asses. They scattered as if they were never a team. Imogen in this recent episode said something about how she views this team.

[@Aloysius_OHare]

@@PikaChu-sp2qo I personally liked seeing Chetney do his whole wolf adventure, it is far more interesting watching Chetney lie, be chaotic and want more power as he is. Their believable glue was Esteros [how ever you spell his damned name...] and he is gone, they ended up being the reason why he is gone. Their entire group minus Chetney and Orym are LOOSE LIPS. They spill secrets, important information. No one is keeping them in check. Right now they're on an important save the world mission and they were supposed to go as scouts. Instead, did the opposite. Making themselves known.

[@Aloysius_OHare]

It feels like Orym is too scared, Chetney has always been for himself. Fearne is vibing with whatever. Ashton has never been a leader type, FCG is an invasive information seeker, Laudna is dealing with Delilah without telling anyone, Imogen doesn't actually care.

[@ZackRToler]

It probably doesn't help that the major threat came relatively early and really had a sense of urgency. C1 had a build up to the final threat with different arc threats which had some connection to the final threat. The briarwoods were a major threat contained to being within a city. Then the Chroma Conclave became a much bigger threat that spanned the continent. Then Vecna became the threat that threatened the entire world. With Briarwoods and the Conclave, there wasn't as much of a time pressure. They could attempt to gain allies, better equip themselves, learn about heir foe and how to tackle them. Vecna, the that's when the clock felt like it was starting to tick, they needed to get all they could as soon as possible. It was down to the wire when they confronted him. C3, it has felt like the players are more pressured than ever to get shit done. While they have had chances to have smaller stories, it seems like most of those relied on guest appearances, but I could be mistaken. It didn't start off this way. Remember when there seemed to be some mysterious threat in the city leading to a giant slug woman? That kind of got left to the wayside, perhaps something that'll come up post campaign in a one-shot. I should also state that I don't think C3 is bad. Just because I personally think it's not as good as C1 and C2, does not mean I think it's terrible, or that I hate it. I do like the characters. I've had fun watching it, had plenty of laughs. I will also say that I do really miss the fanart during the break. I think they also help reinforce the memories we had of certain moments. Snipits of character interactions, outfits, scenes, fights, etc. Whenever we see them creatively displayed by fanart, it reinforces that memory and makes it a bit more enjoyable.

[@KearoNasanam]

The decision to move the fan art to the website was indeed the only compromise they could give for stopping it during the streams. Unfortunately, the average consumer is lazy, and adding more steps to access something despite how free it is significantly decreases the amount of attention it will receive.

[@angelfreshey]

C3 feels more like Imogen's story and everyone else is just following. I'm not too fond of that callbacks to past NPCs and players characters is all it's about. The only fun part was when the group was separated on different continents. I guess as the last two campaigns explored most of Exandria and the history of it C3 just seems like an addon to wrap stuff up. I knew with the WOTC thing that this would be the last campaign with D & D. But I miss the fanart so much, it engaged so many people, and gave free advertising to critical role as people who follow artist will wonder where the characters are from.

[@luvnotvideos]

Oh man, so many reasons! And yours is a great addition that I never thought about, but is completely accurate. I too miss the frequent chats they used to have. Once a month (if we're lucky) just isn't enough. I hated the old host - his digressions and interruptions used to drive me crazy - but loved how cozy and real the conversations were about the episodes, and the little glimpses into backstory we received. It was more "family" than "gameshow" that we get now. My personal biggest reason this season isn't as engaging... LACK OF CHARACTER. Don't get me wrong, each "character" is being acted very well. The cast are professionals, after all. But every character this season is just so one dimensional. There is no "family", too few conversations during a long rest "watch". Everyone's reason for being together feels forced and chopped together like a poorly thought out first draft. I thought the trip to the moon angle would be fun, but it just feels too disjointed and forced. It's unpleasant and uninteresting. And it really feels like the cast isn't fully committed to this season either - Travis is actively hoping his character dies. Personally, I believe this is the last season they will use the official D&D system, and it's affecting their buy-in to the game. I wouldn't be surprised if next season CR transitions to their own RPG system so they are no longer beholden to another company for their own content. Maybe that's why this season feels so forced? Because they want to hurry up and get it over with and move on to being 100% free from outside influence? I don't know. I've dropped off right after they left the feywild and Nana Mori, and just haven't mustered the interest to continue, even though they're now on the moon. It's left me a little sad because I really wanted to enjoy C3.

[@XolBurn]

I agree, I always wanted to see one of my fan art featured there but I didn't have the time nor the energy make and send one. Now that I have both they sadly stopped having that section of the stream, it would be amazing if they bring it back but like you pointed out, it might be a legal thing that is preventing them from doing so.

[@Deelusi]

What to do, they are a company now 👀

[@DParkerNunya]

Real quick, you sound exactly how I always assumed you did when I saw your avatar. On to the point tho, as someone who listened to C2 more often than I got to watch it, I think you're on to something. It was always a highlight when I did watch an episode and got to see all the incredible fanart. I don't think it's the only reason, but it's definitely part of it.

[@Soviniy]

Absolutely miss the fanart reel. It was so cool to see the beautiful art of characters I loved, find artists to follow and even meet other ship enthusiasts. I cried the morning C2 ended, it felt like such a personal experience to watch those characters go through life and face the fact that their personal goals and bonds with each other grow beyond what anyone expected. But everything they did felt important to them. They did those things to support each other and everyone had their time to shine with meaningful backstory threads. Some more than others, and Ashley's absence was felt, but still. It mattered. I still kind of feel like C3 is in a phase of 'getting acquainted' that C2 started with, but they're near 90 episodes- which feels weird to even acknowledge. The plot is grandiose and the stakes are super high, but I don't really feel like anyone but Imogen have any strong reason to be there, there are clearly people better suited for it and it seems like the excuse is "well, they're busy". Imogen's a protagonist with a supporting cast and I like some of the characters in it but don't care about them emotionally like I did with C2. They feel more like instruments of a plot rather than the ones the story's about, I think. It's hard to really rationalise why I have trouble connecting with C3, though I've stuck around out of a memory of fun and for Matt's cool worldbuilding. That, and he kills it playing fey. At least C3 has a lot of those.

[@Alex-ut9ew]

That's a good point, I hadn't considered that the lack of the fan art section could be a compounding issue. I do also agree that there's more separating the feel of campaign 3 for campaign 2 than the fan art section.

[@benwertenberger6730]

There was an excess of fanart, and no way to feature it all. I think remember someone saying that some of those who weren't featured were incredibly toxic about it and CR decided to end it

[@Deelusi]

Daym-, this is why we can't enjoy nice things.

[@USful]

the other aspect is the copyright issue. If someone submitted fanart made by someone else, it could have led to some legal issues with Critical Role, especially if they took out watermarks and the like

[@treeaboo]

@@USful There's also the issue with AI now, which wasn't an issue during the C2 years. Having to vet the fan art submissions to make sure they aren't stolen or aren't AI is a lot of work with so many pieces submitted. If it gets in then it'll be in the VOD and then it's just stuck there, so that's a pretty big incentive not to have the fan art section just in case (because it will happen eventually). It's a shame but it's just how it is these days.

[@uninvincibleete]

For me it had nothing to do with the fanart; I still see tons of CR fanart on my page. The characters in campaign 3 just didn't grab me the way campaign 1 and 2 did. Disclaimer for everything I'm about to say: the important thing imo is the cast enjoys the characters they're playing, and they're obviously having a blast so good for them! It's impossible to please everyone and I'm not saying they should change anything to appease fans. This isn't a 'thing they did wrong and should change', it's just a 'why this campaign didn't keep me engaged so I dropped off watching it'. I didn't like Orym or Fearne in EXU, so I was really disappointed to see they were coming back for the full campaign. Orym didn't seem to have any personality/backstory at all. The only adjective I could think of to describe him for the first several eps is "nice" and "short". By contrast, Caleb and Vax clearly had something going on from the first ep, and that made me as a viewer want to know more about them. They also had really distinct personalities so it was easy to feel like I "knew" their characters pretty quickly (which I think is key to making a character popular/likeable). I didn't get this with Orym since he was just so normal-guy. And I know Liam has said that's exactly what he wanted Orym to be so again this isn't something that should be changed, it's just the main reason I think I didn't personally connect with the character. Imogen seems really cool (especially from the fanart I've seen of more recent eps) but I experienced a similar thing with her in early eps where she kind of reacted to stuff rather than feeling like she had a really strong personality of any kind. Where as Jester was cheerful, outgoing, and mischievous from day 1, I couldn't really get a read on Imogen for the first 10 eps or so that I stuck around. She was cautious, but not consistently enough to be a defining trait. I think Laudna is the real standout here where right away you could get a beat on her character and connect with it, but unfortunately I have death anxiety so pretty much anything she talked about or anything described for her character was really triggering, which made it hard to watch. The other characters all kind of lump together for me in a 'everything is a joke, this is a throwaway character' vibe. M9 and VM had tons of humor, but it came out as we got to know the characters more, and it was balanced with more serious moments. I think it's easier to enjoy jokes made by your friends or an influencer you already follow because you feel a connection to them and that naturally makes you more invested in the joke and more receptive to the humor. BH didn't have that in the early episodes imo, so it was hard to connect with. The reason I (and I think a lot of people) cared about the other campaigns so much is we connected so deeply to the characters right away because those characters were so consistent and clear. By contrast, most of the BH characters feel like the cast are either still feeling the characters out (not as clear/pre-established an idea of who they want the character to be) or aren't treating them as permanent (imo, just my personal perception as an audience member). A lot of people are really loving this campaign so obviously this isn't a universal opinion, but for some of us who didn't find this campaign as engaging, I think this could be part of the reason why. That said, after all the stress the cast dealt with on M9, I'm so glad they can play a campaign that's really fun and less stressful for them OOC, regardless of whether that appeals to me or other fans. As they've always said: this is their game and they play it for themselves, and that's awesome. I'll be back for C4 if there is one!

[@Itachi45481]

Honestly a Champaign either clicks or doesn’t maybe this one is that like part 3s in many trilogies maybe

[@sinbycosvi9]

I think first campaign bias plays a bigger role than people are willing to admit. That isn't to say that C3 is perfect or that there aren't valid criticisms, but the campaign that you start with does end up being the baseline that you compare other campaigns to. And because each campaign is so wildly different from the last, there's bound to be folks who end up disappointed. Another thing that doesn't get brought up enough is nostalgia. There's a certain level of nostalgia and rose tinted glasses that get put on when talking of past campaigns and there's a tendency to reminisce about the "good old days" if you will, whether it be about their G&S days or the fan art reel or livestreaming. Each campaign gets criticized heavily as it's airing but once you have the whole picture and some time has passed, the campaign gets looked back on fondly. I don't know, there's a lot of valid criticisms but there's also some preferences and opinions being confused as facts, and ultimately, to each their own, I'm just happy to have CR around.

[@Paladinbaroque]

Fan art was such an important and enjoyable part week to week from both prior campaigns to me. The variety and levels of experience made it really inspirational too. Helped make moments, especially combat one's, stand out more in my memory. I hope if campaign 4 moves away from DnD to dagger heart then surely as they own it, they can start doing fan art sections during the episodes again, at least for new daggerheart stuff. I'm no expert and I'm sure there's still legal stuff, I'm just assuming in house it would be easier X_X

[@hadesblackplays]

My first introdduction to Critical Role was through ExU: Calamity, then i bingwatched C2 and C3 & C1 at the same time. i know its not "the correct order" but it worked for me: C1 is classic western fantasy, but they were already a group well formed that knew each other, besides they started at reasonable high level. C2 was found family and what it comes with it, plus we got to see how they developed their characters since they started at lvl2. C3 is a bunch of fuckwits trying to stop doomsday since the beggining. What im trying to say is that every campaign of Critical Role has something to offer. but seriously, does anybody actually know why they stopped doing the fanart reel?

[@Lord_Lambert]

I got to ep81 in C3 so far, I only got to ep24 in C2. C1 is better than both by a lot imo.

[@bumbleB1]

This is a really interesting idea. I've only seen a few mighty nein episodes but I do feel very attached to the characters mainly through fanart that I've seen on Tumblr. I, personally, really love Bells Hells, but I know that part of that is because I personally relate to some of the characters. I can definitely see how someone who doesn't have that personal connection would struggle to get attached to the characters and how more fanart would help solve that

[@lycanarachnid2435]

Yeah I'm going to be honest I see a decent few videos like this, but I really feel like its just that campaign 3 has different vibes/focus which might not match up with the same style as the previous campaigns and that is entirely okay because there are probably a lot of people like me who prefer it but are less vocal about it. For the record I started being into critical role during campaign 2 and while I LOVE Caleb, Jester, and Nott especially I find myself as a whole really liking the new characters more and the story overall too (because honestly aside from specific character things involving like Caleb's backstory, the gentleman, or uk'otoa I barely remember specific story arcs in campaign 2). That being said, as someone who does really enjoy the character of campaign 3 I am all for the criticism that it would be cool to have seen more of the group's dynamic / character focused arcs and stuff before this whole Rudius thing, but maybe it's not too late for at least some of that.

[@dylonpurvis4238]

I think it has more to do with how CR2 had the characters intertwined into the story like how Calebs teacher is a big bad, and his connection to Nott, Then Talesins story arc both, it was full of emotion and characters that felt real.

[@Golemkind]

I still feel like the ending for C2 was rushed and none of the C3 characters really gripped me the way Caleb Widogast had. I got 16 episodes into C3 and just went “where’s the story? Who are any of these characters?” before I stopped because I feel like we didn’t really have much insight to any of them early on. I’ve heard it’s changed but not having some of those early story moments kind of killed it for me.

[@danielnewman1589]

CR Campain 1&2 felt like they were games among friends, character driven, and community supported and enhanced with fan art and cosplay sections in every episode. Campain 3 feels like a product, where the characters are experience the events and reacting instead of shaping their path, with only specific allowed art which has resulted in the community gone from the episodes. I can't speak for Obscura or Dagger Heart, but CR Campain 3 just doesn't have the same flare as season 1, the adventuring heroes of grand tales who saved each other, or Season 2, the unsung heroes who saved themselves and then the world.

[@Mahawww]

I also really miss the fan art reels, they really felt like they brought the community together and their lack is definitely noticeable! Also, your voice is abslutely adorable and your personality matches it pretty nicely and you should definitely make more videos! Keep up the good work!

[@D00dlebugg_Arts]

I never really knew why they stopped the fanart section. (Not that I actually went looking for an answer. I'm just a casual CR enjoyer) I was watching new episodes waiting for the fanart to actually update and got super bummed when 20+ episodes in they still didnt have anything. I had originally thought they were just letting it build up! I watched CR in youtube at 2x speed and would actually slow it down for the fanart bit.

[@ranieldale4842]

I fell out of critical role a few months ago, and honestly it was pretty upsetting. CR got me through some really hard times and I'm super attached to the Campaign 2 cast... but oh my god campaign three has been a nightmare to listen to. There's a bunch of problems honestly - 1) The party feels aimless and like they're just following the motions of a story they've no reason to care about. Imogene is the only character who has an actual tie to ruidis. Tbf, in campaign 2 they'd have arcs that were more focused on certain characters, like Fjord and Avantika... but never for 60+ episodes 2) with the exception of FCG, Chet and Fearne, I'm finding all of the characters fairly boring... Like how did Liam go from playing Caleb to Orym "White sliced bread" of the air ashari. Honestly my favourite part of the campaign so far was when they had a bunch of guests on for awhile. 3) Here's more of a CR as a whole complaint... But I hate the new direction they've taken for one shots. Every one shot being some marketing scheme/paid promotion for an upcoming game or movie or show is so corporate in my opinion. Tbf I haven't watched any of them, but I bet its just the party playing bare bones characters doing a basic ass story. 4) It's felt rushed and painfully slow at the same time. The party named themselves after a guy they knew for like three days (Ngl I bet it was a push from the marketing department, cause all the "bells hells" merch came flooding out the second Laura shat out that name), and they've been meandering around the plot of the moon for 50 episodes. I swear they have the exact same discussion about whether or not they actually care about the gods in several episodes. and so many more reasons. I might come back for campaign four... campaign three just feels like a write off at this point. I'm 20 episodes behind and I'd rather listen to something else

[@OrangeCoconutt]

Honestly, I thought a big reason they took down the Fan Art Reel was because of how many spoiler pieces there were in it. For example, there was a ton of major moments depicted from Campaign 1 that were playing during the reels of Campaign 2, and if anyone hadn't seen C1 or planned on watching the Legend of Vox Machina adaptation, they would have been spoiled for so much. I remember always seeing people in the Twitch chat complaining about spoilers during these art pieces. Maybe it's not the entire reason they stopped doing it, but possibly a contributing one? Because in the C3 art reel, it's mostly landscape art pieces now and possibly an art piece or two that isn't too telling to the plot (the one where Bells Hells led the bull creature out of Uthodorn comes to mind) Also on the topic of why C3 doesn't feel "as good" as C2, a lot of people have already mentioned it, but a lot of people did start Critical Role with Campaign 2 and that's the story they fell in love with. And I have a theory that the CritRole Campaign that you start watching first is usually your favourite. I started watching CR when C2 started airing but I started back at the beginning with C1 and I fell in love with Vox Machina. I fell in love with these nerdy ass voice actors playing this game for the first time and joining them in their highs, lows, and any other emotions throughout. Mind you, it also helped that I was unfamiliar with DnD and the rules, so it felt as though I was learning with the cast. (even if I was a couple years behind at points) The ending of C1 broke me emotionally and letting go of VM didnt feel so great as I went into C2 (almost right away) - after getting up to ep 7 or so with my usual CR binging I stopped watching for quite a while. It took me a LONG time to feel connected to C2 (I would argue at least 30-50 eps) Same thing with C3 when I started watching it after C2. Took a while, but now I love the characters and what's going on. C1 will always be my favourite for how many emotions it gave me, though I would argue C2 has a cleaner and put-together story overall and the cast felt as though they could really dive headfirst into their characters. Afterall, this WAS the first time they made characters to play knowing they were going to be playing a long-term campaign streamed to thousands of people,(with the exception of Taryon) and Matt was on his second go (and first planned from the start to be livestreamed as well) I do feel like a lot of C3 fans will feel this way if and when C4 comes around. I can see video titles in my head already: "Why doesn't Campaign 4 Feel Right?" I feel like it'll be a never-ending cycle as long as there's new campaigns. xD I do think the Art Reel helps with people see these moments in their heads and really visualize the characters and story being told to them, but I also think some of why C3 doesn't feel like C2 or even C1 is that it just...isn't. That may sound like a copout answer but I do feel like people are comparing their "honeymoon" stage of falling in love with CR/their "honeymoon campaign" with watching them after several years; which, to me, feels a little unfair. It won't feel the same and that's okay. Fans come and go, and so do varying degrees of interest and engagement, especially for an online series comprised of hundreds of hours. It's a big time commitment and I don't fault anyone for not wanting to make that commitment again for something they're not enjoying fully. Thanks for reading if you did. Sorry it was lengthy lol Also I love your art of your avatar/persona/character. It's very cute!

[@studiocrimniko7181]

I joined around campaign 2 episode 20 into CR. And I still try to finish it. And I heard oh campaign 3 is coming! I was like... thats fun more stories is fun but... I felt a little burnt out? I do love hearing about characters and I love hearing how things are tied together. I wanted to give C3 a shot, but hearing fanart reels are gone made me kind of sad. I loved taking breaks and admiring the art people made, some that I even knew! But since c2 and almost finishing that I have been burnt out on CR. I love them to bits, just I don't think I can get into a 3rd campaign watch.

[@Asocial-Canine]

Honestly haven't watched the video yet, typing this up immediately after the intro and assuming what you mean by 'fanart', but i COMPLETELY agree. There's a lot of reasons I wasn't really vibing with C3 and have fallen behind a good few episodes atm, but the number one reason is that I just haven't felt connected to the fandom like in C2, just because even as I was watching C2's VOD's and mostly skipping the art-block, I could _feel_ that there were so many people out there who cared about what I was watching. There's definitely more to that than the art-block: C3 hasn't had any live shows, which were easily some of the best parts of C2 when you could hear people screaming in the audience about everything that happened; a lot of the creators I followed like yourself don't seem to have really kept up with C3, meaning my personal way of interracting with the community has fallen away; and the actual "quality" (subjective) of C3 just means the few videos I get recommended are the usual clickbait "Why Campaign Three Sucks!!!" and "These People Are Evil!!!" that don't make me want to seek out people talking about it. Heck, most of the time I've spent talking to other people about C3 has been about the problems I have with it, so I would much prefer to just say nothing at all. All the art that they've been showing off in the art block is really good, but even without realising it was art that CR had comissioned themselves, it just _feels_ like it. It feels like the streams are _just_ the production; they're putting on a show for us, and we just have to sit back and watch. (also 80+ episodes in and Bells Hells are still at their best when they're a dysfunctional mess who don't trust each other, but hey i wanna believe the quality of this campaign isn't the reason it's doing badly)

[@SkyP9812]

Pacing. For a good while, NOTHING WAS HAPPENING! And sure, M9 had the same issue in the first couple of episodes, but by getting to know wildemount and *(Spoilers:)* Molly's permadeath it really picked up steam. BH misses that spark that made me invested in the Nein in the first place, and wastes too much time stagnating and mucking about with a plot that does not support it at all.

[@samskelly]

Personally I love the lore of campaign 3, it feels like the end game and I’m very excited to see what happens next. However I do say that campaign 2 is better because I just love my gay wizards and also that the group does feel like more of a family, y’know? It’s difficult to explain.. Also the campaign having many poetic turns really sells it for me personally. I don’t want to criticize Matt too much, he has probably seen enough criticism about his campaign online already. There are definetly faults and pros to this current campaign :)

[@tackyoptic]

Campaign 3 held my rapt attention until around ep. 50/ reuniting the party after that crazy table split-up... I have no clue how or why it fell off as hard as it did for me, but it just doesn't feel the same now. Maybe it's the planet-dooming stakes? Is it possible for the scope to be too broad? Or is it that the major mystery of the first half of the campaign was solved, and there was nothing to take its place in the second half? Idk. Whatever the deal is, I just can't bring myself to sit down for full sessions anymore.

[@RecklessFables]

The scope is broad but it oddly feels like nothing matters. Oh, divination is broken and Gods are being dicks. OK, but the big mystery wasn't progressing in any meaningful manner for a year, and this is compounded by having fewer episodes per month. So the leaderless (and kinda clueless) team of semi-edgy NPCs just stopped being compelling. I mean, the show is still like 4 hours long but I can't tell why. I really really miss Lubofin's recaps as she was the only thing keeping me interested.

[@tackyoptic]

@@RecklessFables yeah, the fewer eps per month definitely hurt things. But then again, at the end of the day, I get that they can create and produce whatever they want-- not to mention all of this is on top of producing not one but two animated shows for prime, balancing whatever else they're making under the critical role banner, and maintaining their own personal careers. These are the sacrifices they've chosen to make, and I guess "the thing that started it all" is suffering for it, in a way. Though I can't really bring myself to be mad about it when I've got dropout/d20, lol. They've got the magic campaign/ tv production sauce over there. And yeah, I miss luboffin's recaps, too. But I think she mentioned feeling the same way the rest of the fans are feeling about it, aside from wanting to prioritize other content for her channel. Can't blame anyone, really.

[@neuro7372]

I dont think its their fault at all, just that M9 was my introduction to them and it was awesome. Ofcourse it will not be the same.

[@indestructiblemadness8531]

I feel like the story clashes with the characters. We basicly have a plot about the world ending as we know it. The death of the mightiest beings of the world. This is beyond Ukatoa and EVERYTHING in C2. Yet our charakters are lower in level. Scrambling to find out what they really want/can do (Half of them dont even care about the gods dying). On the same time, the party seems to not take it tooo seriously, I feel like they just want to goof of. Which Id want to do too, but we are still at the apokalypse while time is running out. It doesnt really fit together.

[@sadakox7366]

I haven't watched CR in a long time (I tried with CR3, a solid 20-something episodes, but I just couldn't maintain interest) but I still play a lot of D&D with friends and I genuinely think, for me at least, that part of the problem is that none of the characters have good Intelligence scores. Vox Machina at least had Percy (and I think Vax was pretty smart too), and the Mighty Nein was FULL of smart characters. High intelligence characters don't just encourage their players to play their characters intelligently, but they also back up that style of play with good rolls! The Mighty Nein got a lot of 'help' figuring out what was happening in their story because they rolled well to learn how certain magic worked, or to remember background lore that provided them with important clues... this in turn didn't only help to guide their actions and decisions in the right direction, it also enriched the story for the audience, who got all this cool worldbuilding from Matt along with the story. One of the things that frustrated me most with CR3 early on was watching characters TRY to be competant, but have the dice fail them because they had a low bonus... sometimes I swear you can even see the players scramble to come up with a 'stupid' thing to say or do to support the diceroll, which then inevitably diverts them off course. Lots of people say they like the 'chaos' of this party, a lot of which I think comes directly from this pattern, but I just find it frustrating... and CR3 suffers with this in other areas sometimes as well, I feel. At least as far as I watched Ashton so frequently tried to step up to help the party in social situations they'd botched, but because their Charisma is so low Taliesin could never roll well enough to back up his otherwise incredible performances. It's a tough situation because nobody HAS to build their characters a certain way, and no party should HAVE to conform to a certain composition, but sometimes doing that really does help things run a little more smoothly!

[@charlestruesdell2771]

To me there is a few reasons. 1. There isn't character arks that build on the characters themselves (beside lodna and imagine). 2 like the cast said they don't seem like main characters I think this also translates to them being a but more individual then a team. 3. And last one they all have ties to the past in some shape or form. Which when they meet old characters make them shadowed by the abilities compared to to their new characters.

[@gibbyfromicarlybestshow986]

ye especially the animatics for me. everything I know about C2 is from animatics and half of it is from this channel. I gave it a try, not for me. but the CR fanart and animatics are basically a genre of content that ultimately funnel people into the show. that's how they make that animation studio money baybee

[@synthellaart1587]

I miss the fanart reels, too, always loved watching them. I also think one reason could be, that they are focused on one specific story since the beginning and it feels less like the weight is carried by the characters? They are rushing from plot point to plot point and are missing actual vital downtime stuff, like, when was the last time we had a shopping episode? No chilling in magic towers or mansions, pup crawls, carnivals, or festivities? It's missing character interactions, that's at least what I feel is different. Still love C3 and BHs. But I still prefer VM and M9.

[@EloyBushida]

Big part for me is the show is no longer live, but also not really edited much, so it feels VERY different than it did when it was live but also VERY different than more edited shows like the Dimension20 shows. I would like them to either go back to live, or go with a more edited format like D20 style. Also the characters all feel like chaos gremlins. There is no leader, no structure, and because of that they just stumble from point to point until Matt railroads them to the next chapter. Then you have a certain character who seems to intentionally disrupt the progress of the campaign and go entirely against the spirit of "yes, and" that the show has always ran on. I won't say who, but if you've watched you already know who I mean.

[@noaramboa2913]

They’ve started making edited down versions of c3 episodes called “critical role abridged” they’re all roughly an hour long, they’re only at episode 11 on KZbin rn but it’s a very good way to watch the campaign

[@EloyBushida]

@@noaramboa2913 This is neat, gonna check it out, thank you.

[@SuperWaistcoat]

Gonna be honest: out of all of the videos and channels that ride on the coat tails of CR I've seen (not including yours) this has to be best one because it doesn't talk about the campaign like they're obligated for it to be good, like it isn't an near entire ad-libbed piece of entertainment that's story is based on the collective engagement of people and gameplay mechanics, but just how the show stopped a small feature for fan art. Which is like a breath of fresh air

[@chalmersmathew4831]

Lack of fanart and community disengagement is definitely an issue nowadays. One big thing is that lots of the prominent CR fan channels are being overshadowed and thus disincentivized from making content. I think it was either Dani Gee or Brianna (can’t remember last name sry) but they commented somewhere that new fan channels aren’t respecting the moratorium on content until Monday like the others did, and so people are getting content spoilers without even getting the chance to watch the game. Then that spills over to others and wrecks the whole community. Beyond that, I don’t want to speak for everyone, but Talks Machina was a big part of engagement because it asked the players solid questions and got them in the mindset of their characters throughout the week while also getting fan questions. It is an eternal kick to the head that BWF is a piece of shit, so now that feeling of togetherness felt back then is also soured. I think it could be brought back hosted by Dani, but of course I’m sure that’s not a position she would want to be in. And the new talk show is not nearly as intriguing because the questions are mostly surface level due to having been sent in advance or while the players are busy reveling in a story beat that the audience hasn’t seen yet, at least in the early episodes that I watched but if it’s changed do let me know. Beyond that, the set is not intimate, as cameras are positioned further back in a much bigger room and, when everyone looks at each other, it doesn’t look like they’re looking in the vague direction of us, but rather to the side. Of course, certain story things are disconnecting, but I felt a similar slog when M9 were chasing Obann when he was collecting things for like 10 episodes or something. Tl;dr: sad times now community wise, but maybe things will pick up from here

[@sammiboibenton]

I started watching at CR 2 because of Nott and Jester specifically. I love Campaign 3 though. Not as much as i love 2 but ive never thought Campaign 3 wasnt fun. My 3rd favorite character in all campaigns is Laudna, and chetney and Ferne are definitely top 10

[@rianneorgellinnetje4116]

I rather liked how Bell's Hells were figuring out the mystery surrounding the moon. I liked Lord Eshteross, all the small mysteries and the tie-ins to campaign 1, which to me are few enough and logical enough to feel deserved. Vox Machina is my favourite, because I really liked the characters, campaign 2 was just fun and had the benefit of a great ending, although I am not a pirate person, but campaign 3 has the second spot. I like that Matt is trying some different things plotwise, by not having clearly separate archs in the campaign, but instead just having one main villain, with some side-adventures on the way. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I definitely enjoyed going full detective mode with a friend about the assassins on Keyleth, the Lumas twins, the moon... But I definitely miss the fan art reel.

[@dragonapop]

I think I watch Till they meet the guest character who is a changeling (I think), and my problem I had was the cast felt like a gimmick. While this is true about campaign 2, Fjord was just Texas, Jester was funny European, and Nott was klepto goblin, I think the characters developed more quickly. There's also another element and that's the setting, Wildemount had the conflict of the Empire and Dynasty. The world itself was a character. Here it feels like the world is just there and only exist when the cast chooses to interact with it.

[@BluStreak]

Yeah, I agree, it doesn’t feel as good as M9, it also doesn’t help that (at least for me) it’s really easy to fall behind. I even fell off a little back in M9 and kinda had to force myself to get back to it, and now for campaign 3 I’ve….kinda just stopped. I’ve been watching a different ttrpg that can (in my opinion) keep attention better, maybe because they use roll20 for it and I can see the maps all the time instead of just for combat.

[@Deelusi]

Ngl, you can skip a few episode of C3 and the story doesn't really progress... It felt stuck.

[@BluStreak]

@@Deelusi that’s kinda bad for CR, in the ttrpg I’m watching, even in the down time sessions there’s still stuff progressing in the background that the characters down know about but the GM shows to keep the players on their toes and excited.

[@nickwyckoff85]

There are numerous little things and a few medium things that all add up and have made C3 feel off. My biggest complaints would be the stakes getting too high too soon and my other big complaint would be that we saw very little of Marquet. I loved how “lived in” C2 felt while C3 feels more like the players can’t take their time experiencing the world due to the high stakes. I feel that C3 should’ve been a 20 episode mini-campaign judging by the pacing required by the stakes

[@afineegg1040]

To be honest, something about Campaign 3 that turned me off to it was how, I guess "ungrounded" I would describe it as. Campaign 3 is FAR more weird from the get-go: A little talking robot, their first fight was against randomly sentient furniture, most of the cast has a custom class or subclass. Outside of the gameplay aspects the characters themselves are usually quite silly, which is nice, but it also leaves me feeling lack there is a lack of stakes. Granted, I haven't watched C3 since episode like 20 or something, but at that point C1 and C2 also had very tense and exciting moments interspersed with the comedy. It feels like a fun sandbox for the cast, but it leaves me as a viewer with a lack of excitement or stakes as I feel detached from the tone of the world.

[@SkaterGirlFC]

As someone who started watching critical role mid C2, the big thing ive noticed for me about C3 and why i cant get attached to it as much is it just feels like the characters keep getting worse. Now im am a few episodes behind, but like, At this point for the mighty nein there was real trust and devotion and they had time to slow down and talk about their trauma on their own time and they really felt like a family. Hell they had a house! Bells hells still just feels like any moment one of them could snap and in fact they all want to lean into their darker sides for more power. It just doesnt feel good watching them go on a whole major quest to revive and save laudna from Delilah only to have all that progress be for naught. Thats just one example but i feel like most of the other characters are going through something similar. IDK, its an interesting and unique story to tell but its just not one i can relate to or vibe with. I do genuinely want to see what happens, but its hard when it feels that nother ever gets better and they never get a win... additionally, its so strange and feels disconcerting that like, the only reason bells hells is even fighting this is because there is no garentee that pradathos wont destroy everything else too. if they had a garentee that it would only kill the gods, i bet they would seriously consider switching sides.and that feels so weird as an audience member because you know how bad ludinas is and dont want to support him! thats just my perspective tho, please feel free to chime in with your own, i would love for someone to convince me to change my perspective on this!! and who knows, maybe its (as other commenters said) my C2 bias

[@AtlasAttakus]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels something's off. Personally, I dropped of C3 at around 70(ish?) and haven't really had the desire to jump back in. I started with C2 which I am admittedly unfairly biased with, as it was my escape from a harsh job and cyclical routines back in 2020-2022. However, I do think there are some things C3 is missing. C3 takes a "storyline first, characters second" approach to storytelling. This isn't necessarily a bad thing! Plenty of stories have a grander design where characters simply play the role of catalysts, and those can be some of my favorites to experience. However, I don't think this was a good idea for CR. The cast shines most when they get to showcase their individual strengths in storytelling, namely in their complex backstories and rooted character growth. C2 had me hooked because every PC had an interesting backstory that was slowly revealed throughout the story. I think this not only connected me, the listener, to the cast, but also other characters together. This is that "connection" people feel is missing from C3. In short, C3 differs from C2 in that: 1. Characters lack a UNIQUE backstory (note I said unique, not complex, the latter of which C3 has; unfortunately, it's so tied up in previous characters and storylines it can often feel rehashed) 2. Character-driven story; in C2, main quests were often driven by personal purposes of the case. C3 is "moon first, character growth along the way." 3. Lack of quiet moments of exposition; C2 shone in its quiet moments during night watches, dream sequences, and 1-on-1 conversations. C3 struggles a lot of the time with this, and when it does happen, it's often the same conversation over again (are we on the right side?). 4. Analysis paralysis; others have said this too, but sometimes 50% of an episode is just the cast bickering over morals and next steps. A lot of the time it feels like the players are trying to come up with a reason on why they should care at all in the main story. C2 didn't struggle nearly as much with this since the arcs were driven by personal purpose (point 2).

[@BEEDRILL303]

I feel like them not being live is a reason too, they don't have chat to interact with, they don't giggle at chat jokes or realize facts that they weren't able to piece together themselves ( aka keliths moms reveal ) they don't have that connection to the fans either now. Yes the interactions were small and rare in gen 2 compared to gen 1 but gen 3 has 0 interaction with it's community, they used to comment of the fanart they showed during the breaks but not that there is no fan art or chat for them to interact with, we're all essentially watching a tv show, it all feels very disconnected. And with what Laura has said about her getting hate and threats b/c of another job I can only imagine what was going on for them to completely cut their fans off, and yeah they have their fanart stuff on a website or something but how many ppl go there to upload and look at fanart?

[@shealupkes]

the campaign established cosmic level stakes at level 4 or 5, they could have put off cameos for level 9 and started ramping them up at level 13 as by then they'd be closer in power to their prior characters and close in power to the stakes matt has presented. If that one fight was going to happen by level 9 the table should have been comfortable with a tpk as it was far out of their league from a narrative standpoint and it feels like matt is holding back.

[@dharmeshmistry342]

SPOILERS BELOW Honestly the biggest dealbreaker for me was having Bertrand’s death be this big staged event. It was like they were trying to create a Mollymauk situation artificially. (I’m still watching the show but it REALLY tanked my engagement) If I’m going to be real I don’t care about Bertrand at all, because I only knew the depth of his character from a one shot and a few episodes of CRC3. Bell’s Hells if I’m gonna be real, had wayyy more reason to go against Ludinus and his thugs for the death of Eshteross than anyone else. Eshteross was a loved character by everyone yet his death seemed to leave a very shallow mark when Bertrand’s was played up very unnaturally.

[@QBee_Buzz]

CR1: A family that has been through a lot and is in a baseline fantasy adventure CR2: Miss fits to found family to the heroes behind the scenes CR3: NPC's that don't really have a purpose but are around, also too many cameos and connections to the other campaigns CR2 was a complete disconnect from CR1 with very little things bringing them together near the final act. But CR3 they were allowed to have backstories and such that tie into the other games again and it kinda made for bland introductions in my opinion. I watched all the way to them getting on to the sky ship and just felt so bored. which sucks because I love the show so much but I just can't get behind any of the CR3 characters.

[@Tcgaming67]

Yeah, I said to my fiancee and friends that the loss of the fanart reel was a huge loss for the campaign. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Campaign 3, but it's not holding a candle to Campaign 2. Also, Welcome to Wildemount was amazing.