Why CW Flash and Iris Should Not Have Been Together

[@teateline9659]

The whole "destined to be together" thing they did really gives off "my parents are only staying together for the children" vibes. It feels forced and unnatural and while the writers thinks it's for us, we know it feels forced and unnatural and hate it for that

[@Xehanort10]

Whenever writers do the destined lovers thing they're basically admitting they can't be bothered to develop 2 characters as a believable couple so they just lazily have other characters talk about how perfect they supposedly are together.

[@JustBxd]

Zoom pretending be to jay had better chemistry then him and iris 😂

[@DebateSparta]

Thawne to

[@Lifeeasnaeee]

Damn 😂😂😂😂😂

[@antheathetiefling8581]

The other thing that no one really brings up? In season one, Barry NEVER respects Iris's boundaries. She tells him no, repeatedly. Explains she's in a relationship. But ANYTIME Barry gets a hint that Iris has doubts...he pushes her. Add this to the step sibling relationship and the whole Barry/Iris thing is just gross.

[@Lazulii33]

Honestly haven't thought of that before

[@ZeroDividedByZero]

Honestly tho

[@sebastianstenhammar7277]

That is a good point.

[@destroyallbacteriad.a.b9007]

Thank you for bringing this up. Cisco and Kaitlyn even went as far as to lie and say that getting struck by lightning made Barry very emotional after he kisses Iris and Eddie Thawn got mad

[@kadu-kun]

Bro....in my video, Im always called crazy for mentioning the sibling-like relationship between them felt gross and I said in a video rewrite I did that Barry should have been with Patty because i liked their dynamic. My second fav choice was Caitlin, I just didn't know how to write it in my own head

[@theunknown3995]

Caitlin/Patty/Kara had better chemistry than them.

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

💯

[@karatemaster2024]

And GROD (idk why but it auto corrects to capitalized haha)

[@felipetorres7489]

@karatemaster2024 that's how it's written. what can you do?

[@karatemaster2024]

@@felipetorres7489 well I tried to write Grod like that but it auto corrected….idk I found it funny

[@lostintheark5728]

Barry and Felicity had the most chemistry

[@themedia_ghost9998]

I honestly believe Caitlin would have been the best choice but also interesting to see. Why you may ask? Well in season 1 you could write them seeing something in each other only to be derailed when Roy comes back. You can also have why savitar trusted killer frost.

[@sebastianstenhammar7277]

I am so with you there and the reasons are right on point.

[@noahfitness3974]

Ronnie not Roy

[@kevothegoat9891]

Barry and Patty

[@gabrieldevoogel6225]

@@kevothegoat9891good, good couple, just not as good to many, myself included, as Snowbarry

[@morrisonscott1139]

If Iris had died at the end of season 3, it would have been a pivotal moment for Barry. He saw two outcomes of that event, one being that her death could make him a depressed mess that turned his back on the team, the other likely outcome is that he could be driven mad enough to become Savitar. Barry himself, however, finds the strength to prevent either from coming true. From season 4 onward, there can be build-up for Snowberry/Flashfrost.

[@alarrim29574]

Amen. This is it. We get comic cannon west Allen (even though it wasn’t the best in this show, which then morphed into plain and simple shit after season 3) and we get a much better pairing in snowbarry with a lot of room for character arcs and parallels between Barry and Caitlyn in season 1 and grief and now Caitlyn and Barry and Barry’s arc with grief

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Honestly season 4 is when you see the cracks but season 5 is when she truly becomes horrible.

[@Lifeeasnaeee]

Not to be mean iris should of died not HR I was really hurt

[@jinxie712]

The problem with Iris is the same problem that Felicity had. They both acted like it was their show and the title was a typo.

[@katejoseph6547]

Yes, the writers didn’t understand that they weren’t main characters and no one wanted them to be

[@RookyFury57]

Their relationship is so toxic and weird. I got so pissed off when she got mad at him for going into the speed force to save the world in season 3. Or the infamous "We are the Flash Barry!" I hate how we see so many toxic relationships on tv especially when the show itself doesn't address it's unhealthy. I feel like what we watch can transfer to real life but I digress. All and all they shouldn't have been together.

[@rayosborne8617]

I didn't see no toxic stuff in any of these show relationships

[@mkwhite5054]

Neither of those are toxic. The first is literally written as the typical reaction to someone “dying” and a stage of grief where you are angry they left you… anger towards a love one who is departed has been shown numerous times. It’s not rational but it’s typical. “We were all struck by lightning that night” literally means the same thing and Barry said that in season 1. You not knowing that “we are the flash” is a metaphor kinda your own problem. Iris doesn’t mean it literally, it’s literally a version of “we’re all in this together” tailored to the show.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

@@mkwhite5054 the problem is that Iris is trying to make him feel bad for his decision when he had no choice. the performance of the actress being overly dramatic doesn't help either.

[@mkwhite5054]

@malikpierre-louis3343 right, so just completely ignore where I said that the “anger” stage of grief is usually irrational but it’s a state of grief all the same… like, she’s GRIEVING. She understands he had no choice but to Barry what seemed like a few seconds of his life was the better part of a year for Iris. For all intents and purposes her husband, who the universe essentially promised to her what with all the soulmate lighting rod alternate earth pairings, was dead. The only *problem* is the overwhelming lack of media literacy and comprehension people had and their lack of empathy as well as a basic understanding of how grief can take many forms.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

@@mkwhite5054 grief doesn't justify acting like this. I would give just has much shit to Barry for creating flashpoint(and i still do) then for Iris doing this outburst. cool motive still an asshole move and really shitty behavior e. just because I understand her feelings of grief doesn't mean she isn't an asshole for basically Guilt tripping her husband for saving the world (including her). and just because i understand Barry lost his dad doesn't mean I am not going to judge him for creating flashpoint while knowing that his friends could suffer has consequence. Most people understand that these people are emotional (example :I still judge Barry for Kissing Iris when she was emotionally vulnearble in the episode out of time when she was still with Eddie despite the fact that he was emotional in that moment) but we still judge them for their actions especially since she isn't called out by the show anyways which is another issue on its own.

[@shadowhell8378]

I liked their comic accuracy. But Caitlin would have been a better choice for the show. Imagine Barry getting intoxicated on the speed power only for her to bring him back to centre then in a later season when she gets her cold power and starts going Killer Frost he Becomes Her anchor do Humanity like she was for him earlier

[@Blue_Lightning33]

Exactly. Don’t get me wrong. I love comic accuracy as much as the next guy. But I honestly think Barry and Caitlin would’ve made a better couple. I think their dynamics would’ve been very sweet and wholesome. Especially with Caitlin becoming killer frost. I just think they would’ve worked better.

[@helendoyle7143]

@shadowhell8378 when Caitlin did start to go Killer Frost he was able to talk her down by challenging her to kill him. When she couldn't he said, "You can't do it. Because under all that cold you are still you." There really was some interest between them because even in season 1 it only took him a few weeks to know her well enough to know she only bites her lip when something is bothering her. She also in that time had enough trust in him to get drunk leaving her in a vulnerable position to know he would get her home safely and cottage advange of her.

[@EASY4V1]

Felicity and Barry was such a missed dynamic. But patty was the main

[@selenarodgers5667]

Yes, I love Patty so much

[@FarhatC28]

I mean they did kiss once on the train after Felicity's first visit to Central City and its clear that relationship is platonic.

[@helendoyle7143]

Barry and Caitlin had much better chemistry. She even told Barry right before crisis started that him just coming into her life saved hers. When Captain Cold and Heatwave kidnapped her she was willing to die to protect him. Come on when she was starting to go all Killer Frost he gave up his job to protect her. Iris didn't even show any interest in Barry until after she found out he was the Flash. Caitlin cared about him weather or not he had powers.

[@austinmcneil8775]

Exactly I love Barry and Caitlyn.

[@shadowking9739]

I agree 100%. Barry and Caitlin could've become romantically involved a little earlier on and then the Killer Frost arc happens, meaning that Barry now has to fight the woman that he loves and grapples with preserving their relationship by not actively hurting her or treating her like every other evil metahuman and locking her up. Maybe the team is also split, with some believing that Caitlin is still redeemable and some trying to push Barry into taking action and this causes friction with everyone. A hero/villain love dynamic is an interesting concept that doesn't get explored enough, in my opinion.

[@austinmcneil8775]

@ I definitely agreed with you on this too man. I would love to see that happen.

[@FarhatC28]

1000% agree - when I first watched Flash I immediately saw the chemistry between Barry/Grant and Caitlin/Danielle and thought that with Iris busy with Eddy they would pivot to that relationship. But having been an Arrow fan first (which came out 2 years before Flash) I realised that the writers were too scared of the fandom to take a gamble and re-write the love interest. In Arrow they changed the story so that Oliver's main love interest goes from Laurel to Felicity. This was a smart change because the writers/producers etc saw explosive chemistry between Stephen and EBR and wrote to its potential (obviously they destroyed all this from season 4+ but thats a debate for another thread). BUT the Arrow writers also copped a lot of flack from comic fans for changing it from Laurel and my guess is the Flash writers didn't want to go through that and so stayed loyal to the Comics.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Flash would make a better couple with Supergirl.

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

💯

[@EvilXero359]

Or Caitlin/Frost

[@TheNiggler17]

Or Billy Butchers wife

[@ConnorHelbig-t4d]

Agree

[@JusArcadian]

a running joke my friends and I have is the fact we'd watch the show and someone would go: "Remember when Barry was a CSI working with his adopted father?" and with Iris being a reporter they never really go back into it we never really see him in his professional life outside of maybe a few scenes when it's convenient to the plot

[@adamwaldemar1621]

After the pilot episode I had a problem with Barry and Iris since they were raised like brother and sister since Joe West was like a father to both.

[@jinxie712]

Were they raised like brother and sister? They just grew up in the same house.

[@AggieNC]

@@jinxie712 With Joe has Barry's surrogate father, then it's a given that Joe would treat Barry as a son and Iris as a daughter. Then they would have be raised in a blended family situation. Which means while one of them may not have seen them as family given the lost of his parents, they were still raised in a family-like setting.

[@AggieNC]

I will always remember when Iris was about to introduce Barry in season 1, "this is Barry, my ..." and then Barry quickly interjects and says "friend" where I could have easily seen her introduce him as her brother. But we will never know.

[@AggieNC]

Did you know that one of the creators of the show is in a relationship with his stepsister? Maybe that had an impact.

[@austinlaplante4203]

They shouldn't be together because they're surrogate siblings. It was always weird.

[@brianachim2670]

Serious Lannister vibes 🤣

[@armorbearer9702]

You bring up a good point. In a show that believes so hard in the butterfly effect, can there be a destined love interest? With a few alterations, a person can have a completely different personality or not even exist.

[@Syntherus]

I'm not a BarryxCaitlin shipper or anything, but there were multiple instances in the show where I thought one of them was going to lean in for a kiss because of the actors' chemistry, even if it didn't make sense in the story. If Iris had died, it would have worked to have the two characters who lost someone they loved find happiness in each other. And man... Patty. She didn't really do too much but her actress was so likable and charismatic that I really felt a loss when she left the show. I'm still not over it and kinda baffled they let someone like her go when they insisted on using every other character in the show as much as they possibly could via alternate realities or timelines.

[@petermatthews3729]

The way Thawne changed the timeline should have made them being in a romantic relationship unthinkable. I can comfortably compare Barry and Iris to Debra and Dexter Morgan in many ways.

[@Lifeeasnaeee]

My husband always says he doesn't like Iris and Barry together because it's like he's dating his sister.

[@MercenaryX84]

Even The 90s Flash understood that if the relationship doesn't work, go with the better option

[@VyHuynh202177]

Iris lost me when she disrespected Barry when they found that Nora had a connection to Thawne.

[@Blue_Lightning33]

Really?! That’s when Iris lost you. I was lost on her character in season 4

[@cxncxrtmxstxr]

​@@Blue_Lightning33that was in S4 tho

[@borjankosarac3645]

Season 5, actually; it was the Cicada season, not DeVoe.

[@tjjordan4207]

What severely hurt Barry and Irish went beyond turning them into adopted siblings, it was the two actors not having any chemistry or good writing behind them. It got to the point that I was begging for Barry to go with anyone else, even Caitlin. Although, I personally believe Patty probably would have been the best choice.

[@thebigivalbowlski]

i was a Snowberry Shipper I stopped watching when there was no chance it was going to happen.

[@LetsTalkComicsHQ]

I so Feel That

[@MarzOnline92]

In all honestly, Candice Patton shouldn't have been cast as Iris West from the start due to lack of chemistry with Grant (among other things). If anything, Candice should've portrayed a completely original character (along with Joe) as Barry's adoptive sister, while Danielle Panabaker should've played a comic accurate Iris West.

[@Blue_Lightning33]

Yes, see that’s what I would’ve done. I mean, don’t get wrong no disrespect to Candace Patton but she really shouldn’t have been casted as Iris West. If anything, it would’ve been better for her to play an original character just for the show. And have Daniel Panabaker play Iris West and have someone else playCaitlin/killer frost

[@MarzOnline92]

@@Blue_Lightning33 Or just replace her with an original Star Labs employee. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@shippendales8543]

I think Candice and Grant had chemistry but the writing for Barry and Iris was never actually good at all Especially if you compare Superman and Lois's writing and how well that was done A lot of what we call bad chemistry is really bad writing If Barry had told Iris his secret from the jump and they had been a dynamic duo helping each other an spending lots of time together Most people would have pro although they had chemistry Instead their relationship was always done with dramatic tension Eddie , Iris not knowing the secret , the writers not knowing how to use Iris The shows inability to shake up its format After season 6 they should have done a time jump and introduced older Flash kids and made it a flash family show The show also seemed hampered by Trying to keep as many series regulars employed even when there isn't much story there Allegra and Ciscos replacement

[@DisabledDoll]

You’re so right

[@driftingnight]

the way you all treat black women in superhero settings will never not be weird. heal and leave them alone

[@ryanmcneil3980]

let’s be honest - anyone else is a better fit than Iris.

[@0INSP1R3D0]

Making them adopted siblings was .. disturbing like you saw eachother grow up very intimately..😬

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

I feel like Barry should've ended up with Patty but if they didn't up together then I would've rather seen him end up Catlin Kara or even Sara

[@TheNiggler17]

Or felicity

[@Superlad9494]

Patty Spivot is his Kathy Webb Kane...she would have got the same fate had they tried...because we all know there's a speedster equivalent of Talia somewhere that would have found the speedster version of Ben Turner to do the deed of offing on the day the ring is intended to be popped...Translation: Thawne fills both roles because he thinks Barry's his boyfriend.

[@mase8705]

Damn Sara tho? Lol

[@CrimsonEdits-m2h]

@mase8705 yes Sara

[@Idlemage]

The "We are the flash" mess triggered me 😆

[@mkwhite5054]

A metaphor triggered you…

[@Idlemage]

@mkwhite5054 r/whoosh

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

@@mkwhite5054 a bad one.

[@mkwhite5054]

@malikpierre-louis3343 and why was it bad? Tell me why on a technical level a grammatical tool was bad and leave your hurt feelings out of it.

[@mkwhite5054]

@@Idlemage wrong usage of that, don’t get pissy because I pointed out the nonsense of you being upset by a metaphor beloved.

[@boldmusa4480]

So CW really went with the Step Bro and Step Sis relationship I see what you did CW 👀

[@JustinJulian-00]

Why does it hurt you man they're not even related on the biological level Barry Allen is more of an adopted sibling then a step one like joe has to go through the adoption system sign the papers and then adopt Barry because step siblings are the result of a different mother or father not related to you marry your mother or father that you are genetically related to and then the kids from that non-related mother or father are considered step kids since this type of thing only happens through marriage and since his mother and father are dead he is considered an adopted sibling because if your biological parents are dead or just have a terrible state of a well-being then you have to adopt the kid who lost their parents or they becoming too unstable and also Barry and Iris are of the age of consent anyway 18 or 20s but yeah I do agree with you that Barry should have been with someone else chemistry wise or similar interests but yeah because I never heard of a story of non-related siblings ever married and it doesn't count as incest at all since again they are not related on a biological scale they are only related through adoption papers or your mother or father marrying a different individual not related to you and foster family is just a temporary adoption system where they kind of do the same thing but the adoption is not permanent compared to adopted or step families because I would consider Barry an adopted brother then a step one

[@jekstter]

@@JustinJulian-00dude wrote an entire essay on why step-siblings getting together isn't weird 💀 (it is in fact still weird)

[@infinitylord1524]

​@JustinJulian-00 here's a faster way to explain the difference between step and adoption Adoption is when you have no parents, so someone else would permanently take care of you Step is when two single parents with their own separate kids get married Barry and iris are not step siblings because Barry's mom didn't marry Joe, Since Joe adopted Barry, Barry and iris are adopted siblings

[@JustinJulian-00]

@infinitylord1524 I'm sorry if I make that explanation to long because I already did say that Barry Allen is an adoptive sibling and don't forget in season 2 of the flash zoom already killed his father so now both of his parents are officially dead in the CW universe and one thing to consider you don't always have to have dead parents to be adopted because if your parents state of their well-being becomes too unstable for them to even take care of you anymore or they done a crime that is unforgivable to the point that they have no parole then that's when adoption can help as well you probably heard of many cases where the parents becomes too mentally unstable to take care of their own kids anymore or like if they done substance abuse or neglecting there child's basic needs or being exposed to domestic violence or as you already said in your case if both of his parents are dead and then someone else has to permanently adopt them once Joe does permanently sign the adoption papers then he is considered an adopted father to barry like seriously though not going to hate the guy who made this video but he needs to consider looking up the difference between adopted sibling foster siblings Step siblings and also half siblings and full siblings but yeah you can see that we are on the same page here

[@infinitylord1524]

@JustinJulian-00 right, yeah I forgot about the fact that you can be adopted if your parents aren't dead but can't raise you right, which is what happened to Barry, his mom is dead, but until near the end of season 2, his dad was alive, but in season 1 and a tiny bit of season 2, he was in jail, so he couldn't take care of Barry

[@kevothegoat9891]

Ironically they had much better bestfriend chemistry

[@joshz2491]

I never had an issue with Barry and Iris. People bring up the whole “step sibling” thing but they forget that Barry was in love with iris long before he ever had to move in with Joe, not to mention Joe and Henry BOTH KNEW Barry was always in love with Iris. It's not like he started living there and suddenly caught feelings for her. Joe didn’t even treat them like step siblings. I mean sure he took a while to get used to it but that’s because he sees Barry as a son and Iris is his daughter. He never treated them as step siblings even though it took some getting used to seeing them together.

[@infinitylord1524]

It's not even step, it's foster

[@Mobmezza]

@infinitylord1524 now that you put it like that. but still no need for them to be a pseudo family before getting together

[@infinitylord1524]

@Mobmezza fr

[@alarrim29574]

I never had a problem with it from Barry’s side in terms of the sibling thing. But that’s not the case for iris. She didn’t love him or even had a crush on him before he moved in with them. So for her she is his step sister

[@infinitylord1524]

@@alarrim29574 foster sister Or adopted sister

[@SonicSpeedGaming759]

Iris in my opinion wasn't that bad until the later seasons. At first she was very supportive of Barry and then she became Sam Raimi's Mary Jane Watson and it felt like they were still together because the source material said they were, which I'm all for following source material, but it's following it poorly is what I have an issue with.

[@AnonUnlimited]

I honestly feel like Iris fell into this mid 2000s trap of people trying to fix hero love interests by forcing them to have equal importance to the hero, and they do that by trying to force that character into a hero mold. I feel like they really pushed to have iris feel just as important and capable as Barry. But, instead of creating situations where she could naturally prove her own individual capabilities, they ended up forcing her into Barry's narrative, and it just wasn't believable. She wasn't just part of the team, she was the most important part of the team. It didn't really feel like they used her particular skill set well enough to justify her being there at all tbh. They honestly could have let her have the Nancy drew portion of the plot. Just in the back researching the season's big bad/furthering the main season plot while Barry and co dealt with freak of the week A plots. We usually have the computer digging up research, but I feel like it would have been more satisfying to see Iris following tips and doing on the ground research that couldn't be found with a computer. I feel like a lot of Iris' character reeks of the hand of the author and it honestly takes you out of the story. Although I haven't watched the recent seasons, so I can't say if it got any better or worse.

[@TerminatorFire-x8q]

The problem is also that the actress has received many racist comments from the series' "fans", which I understand that if you don't like a character, whether it's from a series or a movie, that doesn't mean It's okay to send hate comments to the actors who play this roles cuz at the end of the day it's the writters jobs to make the chatacter's intresting and compelling, like fr dc fans are so inmature.

[@LupinKing]

Honestly, the people who did that are a bunch of idiots. Acting as if the actress had any say to what the terrible writers were giving her to work with 🤦🏿‍♂️

[@qwixilver]

It feels likethe writers would write acharacter interaction in and ask, what about this girl? Then the producers will insist on coming back to Iris. She was totally shoehorned in.

[@realghoststories1210]

When you rewatch Flash a 2nd or 3rd time. You actually see Iris didn't fit from the start. She was selfish and childish at times. Honestly Caitlin was more supportive to Barry than Iris.

[@drackestalentorgen166]

As someone with an Adoptive sister i found the relationship gross to begin with, there was absolutely no reason to make them siblings

[@DavesDimension]

it shouldve been barry and kara....straight up....or barry and caitlin......hell the 90's flash wrote out their version of iris and had that barry and christina mcgee romantic interest. Patty wouldve been great too. It was a big issue with writing how candace acted. Mostly i blame on the writing.

[@Blue_Lightning33]

Well, yeah, you can blame the writing. I think the blame mostly goes to Eric Wallace. He just kind of destroyed the show.

[@DavesDimension]

@ agreed

[@DisabledDoll]

4:06 the engagement scene was perfect tho. You can’t take that from them 😹😹😹

[@atillaboraaydn5163]

She kept getting "stuck" in dangerous situations, she needed her step bro's help😂😂😂

[@turboace5595]

It’s weird as I think Grant and Candice have good chemistry if you’ve seen their bloopers and other out of show stuff like interviews especially early seasons it’s their Candice even said she didn’t want to say the “we are the flash” line on IG so it was purely the writers and show runners The problem was some of the hate/critique was mainly directly at Candice and some of which was racism (could be a small percentage idk) which I think led to a lot of over correcting, she even points out the show always marketed and promoted Danielle (Caitlins actress) more than her Plus Grant was adamant they kept Iris/Candice the main love interest Idk I still think Barry and Iris could have worked with the proper tweaks or just better writers in general as they could of messed up any of the potential relationships But I will admit Caitlin just having the more intriguing storyline and potential storylines does make her probably top pick

[@kaior1]

Making them family is weird too

[@i.s1889]

Damn everyone hating on Barry and iris😂😂😂😂

[@solivagen435]

Snowberry for LIFE. 💖

[@austinmcneil8775]

Took the words right out of my mouth man!

[@victormercado278]

Also Caitlin is a scientist. "Well um... actually. Caitlin is a medical doctor and blah blah blah." Dude she is a Doctor that works for star labs she can see the speed force energy in barry's cells. So while cisco can build a device to do whatever. Caitlin is there to fill in any gaps that may be there. They are a tag team. Barry is a huge science nerd. He is also a scientist. So when it comes to the whole Barry + Caitlin thing i just notice that not many people bring up that fact. It almost NEVER gets brought up or AT ALL. So yeah thats just one other thing that they have in common. I can see them running weird experiments together while eating tacos and having that count as a "date night"

[@MegaJetty1]

It's ironic. Barry+Iris destined to be together led to them being forced together and it failed, and Oliver+Felicity NOT being destined to be together led to Oliver NOT being with Laurel/Black Canary so the new Oliver+Felicity could flourish and it failed. 2 opposing shows took 2 different routes and both failed due to bad shipping and bad writing.

[@sarickacampbell2642]

The Arrow-verse. Did not have any good canon ships. Oliver‘s best chemistry partner was Sarah a.k.a. black canary who he was meant to be with. Canonically. They were the twin flames 🔥 that were meant to be. Felicity was better with Ray Palmer the Adam, their whole awkward nerd 🤓 chemistry was great. And Nyssa had a way better chemistry with Laurel than she did with Sarah.

[@ConnorHelbig-t4d]

He should've been with: Felicity Caitlin Patty Kara Danvers

[@Powherkrangunch]

I like your channel a lot so far. I'm definitely on team Snowbarry first & Foremost. The series would've been so much better if they killed Iris off in the third season. I completely cringed the first time I saw them kiss. I would've even accepted Iris and Eddie as a full time pair, because they were at least sort of cute together. Thank you so much for addressing this topic.

[@Blue_Lightning33]

Honestly I would take Barry and Caitlin or Kara over Iris

[@austinmcneil8775]

Me too.

[@danielmagaya8948]

I felt the same about Smallville. The way Clark looked and felt about Lana made what he felt for Lois lukewarm

[@bradleywhitlock5842]

They already changed who his kids were supposed to be, Don and Dawn, aka the Tornado Twins, along with other important factors. They could have gotten him with someone else.

[@PrinceOfKings55]

They teased Caitlin n Barry early on and I been waiting since for them to see it through 😭 you could argue Caitlin role wouldn’t have phased out if she was with Barry and Iris would still be a reporter 😭

[@Saje3D]

In later seasons it was like they hired writers out of Middle School.

[@THELIGHTKNIGHT_2025]

Barry and iris are a good couple but at times their relationship felt really forced

[@Anti9022]

Barry literally had more chemistry with sara lance when mourning Oliver queen than he ever had with iris ever. And I used to love iris up until season 3, she was a great character but the show definitely did her dirty

[@srstriker6420]

Well it was Iris’s fault for turning Eddie Thawne into Cobalt Blue as he was to give up on her as he found out that he was never going to marry her but she was too proud and stubborn that she believes she can master destiny as she filled his head with dreams after he came back she rejected after all that.

[@Elric52]

She was so annoying the more into the show you got bro ugh literally any other female character was better like even Caitlin, also why was she the team leader, like fr? They never chose her LOL she just named herself that and when everyone else fought crime or made gadgets she just yapped on some "We are the Flash" B.S, makes me ball up my fist when I think about it oml.

[@Netherwolf6100]

It's clear the writers had no idea what to do with Iris as a character after season 1. She was written purely as a love interest to rouse Barry's emotions and nothing else. Every time they tried to give her value or purpose, it fell flat or worse 😒

[@smoldisappointment]

I’m surprised this is even a video I thought everyone hated iris already 😭😭 I liked her starting off but after a while I was just like couldn’t we just have another female lead instead

[@LetsTalkComicsHQ]

Some people will surprise you

[@shippendales8543]

​@@LetsTalkComicsHQ I don't blame Candice because the writing for Iris was the biggest problem Same with Vampire Diaries and how they did Bonnie Bennett on that show even though fan loved the character and actress more Flash never knew what do do with Iris outside of being the life interest role and that problem became clear the more the show went on

[@suzygirl1843]

@@LetsTalkComicsHQOh please. People hate her because she' black, they wouldn't make videos like this if she was white. They'll never make Iris white again. Get over it. She's the black Lois Lane and Lois is even more insufferable.

[@bobbyavitia]

Why can we write strong women who are good partners anymore? Being powerful doesn't need to mean being self-centered.

[@cryingtomatohead8626]

I feel like a lot of the issues they run into could have been solved if they never made the two psuedo siblings. It just makes their relationship very akward and leads to the actrs feeling very standoffish in romwntic situations. They have great romantic chemistry, just not with each other until much later seasons of the show. A second way would have been taking away the destined be together thing. This show was already so different from the comcis that they could have postponed them being the endgoal to actually work out their characters a bit more and set clear boundaries between the two. Or even give them new relationships that would have made more sense within the show.

[@Xehanort10]

11:26 At least the show Dexter had the sense to drop the dumb Season 6 "Deb loves Dexter" plot unlike The Flash which treats married adopted siblings as a normal thing when it isn't. People should get into relationships with people who aren't related to them by blood or adoption, didn't grow up in the same house and weren't raised as siblings.

[@i.s1889]

But you know what I feel like it made kind of sense because we knew from early he had a crush on her and also the story of him trying to get to her at a point we thought it wouldn’t happen but she slowly gained proper feelings throughout s1 and s2 let’s not forget what a emotional scene between them when he told her how he really feels about her

[@Syntherus]

I have no idea what you're talking about. At no point did it seem like they wouldn't be together. The moment you cement their relationship through a future news article written by her as his wife, there is absolutely no room for doubt. They can drag it out or try to make it seem like they won't be together all they want. They already confirmed it. Plus, it's CW. There's no way they were going to do the interesting thing and either make Barry change the timeline and screw up their future together, or have Savitar kill her and make that a pivotal moment for Barry.

[@i.s1889]

@ well I mean they didn’t establish anything proper till end of s2

[@i.s1889]

Not to mention she rejected him several times because of Eddie and even before then she’d been friend zoning him

[@262fresh]

How i feel about Felicity. Didnt care for her as the love interest. She was very much left field

[@Rcampo42]

I prefer white iris I think kid flash (black one) has potential but I would seen him as like an adopted nephew of Iris, and keep Wally as it

[@kaior1]

I mean that's the real liris and this one Is a off brand one that acts nothing like her

[@Rcampo42]

@@kaior1in my heroverse I only do merits no race swap or anything

[@tatakindred]

Thank you for being honest. Everybody else were trying too hard with chemistry stuff. I think Candice's acting was mediocre, her character's writing inconsistent to the point when you couldn't even say who Iris was, but most fans wouldn't hate Iris if the actress was white.

[@driftingnight]

the way you all treat black women in superhero settings will never not be weird. heal and leave them alone

[@driftingnight]

@@kaior1 the way you all treat black women in superhero settings will never not be weird. heal and leave them alone

[@flashtheshapeshafter]

Making them brother and sister was already a big red flag, the fact that they did flashpoint and didn't fix it speaks volumes. How does he have better chemistry with Caitlin Patty and Kara😭

[@driftingnight]

black women in cinema can never win lol

[@louilelee9978]

I thought after s2 they would work out their chemistry.... nope nothing zip 😂 I would have loved seeing Barry and Caitlin and the plot line of cait being killer frost... oh the turmoil for barry

[@John-tn7nm]

If Hallmark made a superhero show, it would be The Flash

[@Striker_2]

After Flash Point i wouldve had them change it to where Barry didnt grow up with Iris. They wouldve been friends in school but not living in the same house

[@sebastianstenhammar7277]

I ship Caitlin and Barry.

[@Nolaqueenari]

The random Wendy Williams clip had me cracking up

[@cutevillain3366]

I kinda applaud The Flash for keeping Barry with Iris. It’s the only show that kept the main couple together throughout its series. In Arrow it started with an Ollie and Laurel but switched to Felicity. In Vampire Diaries it was Elena and Stephen but she switched to Damon.

[@SudsyGazelle]

The part of the relationship i hated the most was when barry took nora back to the future and iris got mad when i see barry as in the full right to do that cause thawn the man who killed Barry's mother and mortal enemy helped nora get to the past which she didn't share with anyone at all and once barry knew he felt betrayed but also did the best thing since he didn't know what other lies she could have told

[@shadowking9739]

I honestly think that Barry and Caitlin should've been a couple. They had way better chemistry, had a lot in common, and it would've worked since Caitlin was there at the beginning and better understood Barry's role as the Flash than Iris did. Plus, imagine if the two were romantically involved when Caitlin became Killer Frost. There would be so many storytelling and drama opportunities if one of Barry's biggest allies/supporters, as well as his significant other, became one of his biggest enemies. It would've given the Killer Frost arc that much more weight if Barry was struggling to fight the woman that he loved, being unable to land a blow on her and grappling with the decision of whether or not to imprison her like the other metahumans. There would also be friction between Barry and the others due to his reluctance to move against Caitlin, especially if she went too far and was believed to be non-redeemable. It's not my only ship; Patty or Kara could've also worked way better than the Barry/Iris dynamic, it's just that the Barry/Caitlin relationship sounds very interesting.

[@Lifeeasnaeee]

Bro, season 4, episode 1 or 2, when Iris was acting like she didn't want Barry back and was being rude to Caitlin and Cisco.

[@robertrogers074]

Look at Smallville with Clark and Lois that whole destiny thing it builit up great.

[@TeamForwood]

I spent so much time making videos in the past that Barry would've been off with Caitlin and that WestAllen wasn't as great as they tried to make it seem while getting the "we know why you really against Iris and her relationship with Barry" 🙄

[@arissagoolsby2274]

Barry and Iris chemistry gives have been married for 30 years vibes idk how to explain it

[@someguy715]

I never feel bad for Barry when Iris is awful to him because Barry didn’t respect Iris’s and Eddie’s relationship at all it’s the one time I really just hated Barry so I never feel bad when Iris is a bad partner to him

[@winxclubfairiesrule1]

The only reason the adopted sibling thing didn't bother me is because they were originally best friends. Barry always had a crush on her and they were in the double digits when Joe as adopted barry (I'm pretty sure??) so, I felt like even if Joe was his adopted dad, it wasn't weird bc he never saw her as a sister. And iris may not have necessarily seen him as a love interest ( I know they tried to say she liked him too but that's bullshit) I feel like he was always just her best friend, not really her brother

[@Qfut]

The chemistry was never there right from when they set up that whole step-siblings thing

[@davidcrocker846]

Virtually every single female character in the ENTIRE arrowverse had better chemistry with Barry than iris ever had

[@regishel]

My biggest problem with Barry and Iris together has nothing to do with chemistry and everything to do with family. Changing Barry's backstory from the comics means Iris And Barry is sep-siblings/adopted-siblings. Barry and Iris in the comics are so perfect together, yet the show made it feel incestuous 😰 Everything they talk about their shared childhood🤢

[@regishel]

*Everytime

[@Rockmanbalboa]

the arrowverse problem on relationships was that, when they did one closer to the comics it sucked and when they could do one closer they refused and it sucked also.

[@chriscolombie4135]

Caitlin/patty/Kara/ Linda even felicity had more chemistry with him, iris ship just existed because even in season 2 they get together because in an another world they are together and they somehow have more chemistry there than in the main universe

[@Filmation77]

But here's the thing: Iris WEST is a HUGE part of the Myth and Emotional Make Up of Barry Allen in the comics and Iris was Barry's reason to be ,them NOT getting together would have been such a letdown to die hard Flash fans,the Will they ,won't they trope is just one of Romantic staples, not in the Comic, Barry was Always with Iris, until he lost her tragicially

[@laxmadur4611]

See a video bashing this relationship is an automatic like 👍

[@Decimo10X]

Seek help.

[@CowsRdumb]

WestAllen forever. I want to say the real reason why most of y'all dislike Iris and the westallen ship but I'll just be attacked and gaslit. But you know and I know the real reason y'all don't Iris no matter how much y'all deny it .......

[@Kalel2.0]

I'm guessing you think people hate Iris because she was black😂. I think the hate goes way beyond skin colour and has more to do with the character being associated with bad writing and mediocre plots and while other fans wouldve preferred a more comic accurate depiction of the character(skin tone and red hair included)most of the issues do not stem from her skin tone and if those people hate her purely cause shes Black then that's their problem especially when Candice didnt deserve any disgusting racist comments she received

[@CowsRdumb]

@ Literally most of the fandom didn't like Iris because she was black. Even before the show started. Even in season one and two when the writing was at its peak. People wanted Barry with Caitlyn and patty. Saying nonsense on how they worked better. But neither one had chemistry the way Candice did. Or try to paint Iris as bad option like she hasn't been there for Barry their entire life. Also after every episode I would go to Facebook comments just to see people talking about episode and it was nothing but Iris hate and racist comments. I'm not speaking from ignorance I know and saw it. Same thing with Bonnie from the vampire diaries

[@Kalel2.0]

@@CowsRdumb The chemistry arguement is valid tho. Grant seemingly had better chemistry with every other woman that wasnt Iris and you can make the arguement that the writing was stronger however it is true that the chemistry felt more organic than it ever did with Iris and it didnt help the writing for the character was amateurish at best at times especially when Iris in the comics is actually a pretty fun and easy to like character that's more than just Barry's Wife Also Bonnie Bennett in the Vampire Diaries was a fan favorite and the fandom from what I've seen loved Kat Graham(Bonnie's actress)yet the writing for her character wasnt ever a priority and Julie Plec has a bad track record of writing characters of colour

[@CowsRdumb]

@ No Candice and Grant had better chemistry so much that during an interview he forgot she wasn't his real girlfriend and put his arm around her. Bonnie Bennett the most loved....? No the fandom loves he because she was the magical negro that saved everyone. Not Bonnie as a character. People actually hated Bonnie for not liking vampires. Kat Graham was also treated horrible. Again I know what I see. Caitlynn and patty did not have better chemistry. And you say it's more natural? How is more natural? Hmmmm...? But I don't think this is worth continuing because you're never gonna understand my pov as black woman in this type of fandom. I'm not saying these things just to say them. Majority of black women characters are hated and ignored in certain fandoms. There's videos about them. You should do further research on this topic

[@Kalel2.0]

@@CowsRdumb I have done my research on this topic and I'm very farmialiar by how Black women are treated in the media and reduced to stereotypes,token characters or arent given the same level of attention and like I said in my prior comment Julie Plec the head writer of the Vampire Diaries show has a bad track record of writing people of colour on the show where their reduced to nothing but canon fodder and side characters without depth and focus and it's often a focus of frustration on the show and even became a running joke and I'm well aware of how Kat Graham was treated on set and I it find incredibly distasteful and gross and I'm glad a lot of the cast and fans stood up for her And Barry and Iris on the show may have shown glimpses of genuine chemistry on the show and in interviews they seem to enjoy each others company however it was overshadowed by bad writing,forced tension and a rocky foundation plus if I'm being respectfully honest whenever Barrt shared the screen with other women it seemed to flow seamlessly compared to Iris and then again it could be writing as chemistry between two leads can only go so far with mediocre writing and material especially for Iris's character I'm not trying to dismiss anything of how you feel about it and your opinions and I'm not trying to argue I was just giving my take on the situation and how I just thought Barry had more natural chemistry with other women and in Patty's case she didnt stay long enough for her character to be butchered by the writing

[@ShinoGambino]

I love how we all REALLY started hating iris after that “we’re the flash” shit was said 😭 I checked out from that moment and when HR died for IRIS!!! Yeah killing my favorite character to save my most hated one made me stop watching until the show finished

[@dawnmayflower4422]

In regards to shipping, I would have put Barry with Caitlin, then Patty, then Kara, then Linda then Felicity - I know he and Felicity had a lot of chemistry but I genuinely dislike her character so she goes last lol. (I think Felicity would still have her annoying and possessive qualities even if she dated Barry and not Oliver even if they wouldn’t be as heightened.) I truly think Iris is just a “love interest” character. They tried to give Iris qualities like being a journalist or ‘team leader’ of Team Flash but they never really stuck or worked: she was never actually a great journalist and the show forgot to let her be one for a few seasons; and she’s not a good team leader when everyone in the group says “I’m off to do this” and Iris just agrees after the fact. Some “love interest” characters can morph but it takes good writing. And the times where I’ve notice this happen the “love interest” usually has little to do with the one who was originally in love with them, they found their own endeavours. The writers tried to do this with Iris but never really succeeded. Because they wrote Barry so obsessed with her (to a fucking scary degree honestly, he legitimately stalked and ignored her boundaries in season 1) and because of the whole “destined” thing they backed themselves into a corner imo. Iris West can be nothing other than a “love interest” character, and a pretty crappy one at that. And I’m pretty sure that’s why she and West-Allen are either so beloved and reviled, no in between. Because Iris, boiled down, is literally just a girlfriend template and nothing more. So people either defend the ship or criticize because they realize how worthless it is because Iris is worthless. They should have wrote Iris out of the show in the first few seasons. Season 3 was the perfect last season. Just have Savitar kill her off.

[@Kalel2.0]

Iris in the comics is actually a pretty good journalist I mean she's no Lois Lane but she's a hustler and has layers and a personality outside of being Barry's wife and has her own interests(like being a grease monkey) and place in the Flash Family that the show didnt bother adapting like her being nurturing and getting Barry to loosen up and embrace his softer and emotional side and her pretty much being the matriarch of the Family as she was pretty much Wally's parental figure and shaped his view on family so much so he named his first born after her,does creative writing on the side and one of Barry's best comic stories is narrated by her,can be funny and tough when necessary and unironically in most iterations was the one who chased and asked out Barry😂 compared to the show and both of them are partners as Barry is her source in the police department to scoop up a story and information and Barry replies on her contacts when investigating a case

[@thefilmwatcher1302]

I find it funny how literally every single other love interest either character had was either written off or just killed. Eddie, Patty, Linda; _literally_ everybody, just to drag out this stupid, disgusting love story. I refuse to believe this show did well enough to warrant a run rivaling the length of Smallville.

[@VeronicaMusariri-e8p]

Caitlin, Kara, patty, Linda, literally everyone had better chemistry with Barry

[@magsmags9801]

He had great chemistry with everyone but Iris berry and supergirl all day.

[@aballerg6378]

iris could've been so much more interesting if she had ever gotten her own thing to do

[@chillsportsfanatic372]

Now for Oliver and Felicity ship.

[@Azrael4455]

Finally, someone understands iris west in this show is not a good match for barry

[@rishirajagopal4530]

Patty had the best chemistry with barry

[@markomarinic3073]

The big Problem was, that Iris was completly irrelevant for the Story. No, seriously, all she does is ignore Barry and hunting for better options which leads her to hunt for the Flash. But the second she knows Barry is the Flash she is going for him and several Times tried to get involved in his romantic Life once she saw what a great catch he seemed to be for literally any Women and how geniunely he was liked and more. On top of that, the only Reason she got a promising Job was because of Barrys Crush on her and who literally left everything aside just for an Interview. Just think, he not going whenever she wanted to meet the Flash, that alone would make her more believable, because than she would struggle just for a Chance, while being seperated from the rest of the Cast. And then she slowly could have worked to gain Flashs Trust. But that Way she literally got everything she wanted whenever she wanted while sabotaging all his romances. And then she put herself as the Center of the Team. So of course People are going to hate her.