Why Darth Vader Became WAY Weaker Extremely Quickly (ROTJ) - Star Wars Explained

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[@GGBlaster]

Pre-watch prediction: it was a 2v1 (Anakin + Luke against Darth Vader) Post-watch: I grossly oversimplified it, but I did guess one of the reasons.

[@AlphonsoFrett-xz6pi]

I would like to see this

[@bobsterclause342]

Pre watch prediction: The true natire of the darkside The actual darkside is actually an inflammation response. Sentients that are nurotic hurt the force. It is there to effect your mind backk so the harm to the force is atleast altered, as i flimation response are kind of crap at their job. But if there are only two sith left, so having darksiders hooked up or under the response se all the time could be stopped. Especially for a small amount if time. Though, these two have cast a shadow of the darkside, so, perhaps they are still quite a powerfull force on it and the force. Though, blinding them in the last moments should be easy enough for a gestalt galactoc energy grid based conciousness that has been tormented by so ething until it is two beings fir so long. Cuting off the feed (perception/ sense) so vader can be brought low, energised with the light side, and sideous blindsided for the emperor for a split second would make sense as looking at the force like a being being harmed by two simbiot cyborgs with it. The best thing the for e is vader choosing to betray the emperor as a jedi, not a sith, which should have been next to impossible, as he litterally giving into the whole temptation the darkside is and has to not do it as a darksider. Being able to overcone Ike this probably healed the force, and keeping him around as well.

[@PBST_RAIDZ]

Pre watch prediction Vader was conflicted which severely weakened him

[@robbie5984]

I think it all started going downhill super quick for him when they meet after Luke is “captured” on Endor. That conversation brought so much conflict to Vader.

[@danpatrickth2759]

Agreed

[@brentlashley2138]

Luke loved his pappy and pappy loved Luke. The darkside can't flex with all that love in the room.

[@uncouthliyouth4486]

😂

[@danpatrickth2759]

Agreed

[@okamireader5]

The answer correlates to the one time Darth Vader briefly and temporarily used the Dark Side to heal his body. When Vader mustered the will and power to use the Dark Side of the Force to heal his injuries, it worked. His dead scar tissue, his internal organs, his burns, all of it started to heal and in the moment of relief Vader felt elation as the agony he had lived with for years began to abate. And it was that elation, that joy in fact, that caused the healing to fail and be undone. The effects of the power vanished, returning Vader's injuries, along with the constant pain, thwarting Vader's attempt to heal himself. The Dark Side draws its power from fear, anger, hate, suffering, as well as a devotion to it. This devotion is maintained by negative feelings as well as passionate emotion. When Vader, in that brief moment of relief when he felt his injuries heal, experienced that joyous relief, it poisoned his connection the Dark Side, causing the healing to fail. In the case of Vader's last duel, with Luke, he was indeed holding back, looking to trump Luke and sway him towards the Dark Side in the determination of making his son become his apprentice so that together they could defeat and overthrow the emperor and thus rule the galaxy as father and son. But as you said, Vader was running out of time. Despite being only 45, Vader had been put through such traumatic bodily injures that required cybernetic life-supports, prosthetics, and a heavy, painful, and outdated suit in order to live... where he became more machine than man. But he was still a man. His many years of serving the Emperor and enforcing his will had taken its toll upon Vader, along with the many strenuous and hazardous experiences Vader was put through in the time leading up to RotJ. Tho a cyborg, Vader was still, at his core, an organic being and his organic body, ravaged, put through the wringer, and never given proper and efficient medical care or prosthetics that were up-to-date, advanced, and didn't impede him. inside that dark sit of armor, Vader's organic body was coming apart. Finally, as u said, Vader was conflicted. He believed there was no hope for him, that it was too late. But the hope and compassion and even the love offered by his son stirred something withing Vader. Or rather, someone. In spite of telling himself over and over that Anakin was dead and he had nothing else to live for, Vader, or rather Anakin, began to feel hope and perhaps even love for his son, which in turn disrupted his connection to the Dark Side, weakening him even further. Love is something vastly misconstrued and misunderstood and underestimated by the Jedi as well as the Sith. And it was the love between father and son that destroyed Vader and Sidious while redeeming Anakin and saving Luke as well as the rest of the galaxy from the Empire.

[@DragonsFireMetalWorx]

I noticed Vaders strength wane in the duel...but this holocron makes it all make sense...Vader's love for Luke broke his connection with the Dark Side...through all of his pain, torture, trials and manipulations...Anakin's ability to love was never crushed.

[@tgmartin]

I'm sure his ability to love was great comfort to all those children he murdered

[@richardkenan2891]

​@@tgmartinit's not about comforting the deceased, but pulling the fallen back to the light. The children and all of Vader's many other victims belong to the past. Anakin's ability to live secured a future for many others. Don't let the lust for revenge bring more suffering to the innocent. Nobody pretends that Vader was an innocent victim, nor even that Anakin was before him. But had Anakin not possessed and retained that capacity, many more would have suffered and died.

[@thomasparque7834]

I already assumed it was something like what you just explained but two biggest factor is the conflict between Anakin and Darth Vader along with the Will of the Force itself.

[@Ravenfanatic5]

3:49-4:08 "He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil."

[@drifter139]

Luke is doing something the other Jedi never did. he is showing that he loved him and wouldn't give up on him. Obi-Wan, while he loved Anakin as a brother, ultimately gave up on saving him before their fight on Mustafar

[@businessmindset7012]

I agree

[@mr.s9783]

To be fair, Luke didn’t watch security holograms of him butchering children.

[@taetrrtot6205]

I agree but I mean what was Obi Wan supposed to do? Sometimes it's more about the messenger than the message itself

[@drifter139]

@@taetrrtot6205 the way I see it, the whole Jedi order chose not to believe in Anakin which pushed him to look towards someone who cared about him, aka Palpatine. even Obi Wan treated training Anakin as more of an unavoidable task rather than a genuine goal to bring balance to the force like Qui Gon wanted. Luke was faced with the knowledge that Vader was his father and while he felt angry, ultimately decided he was determined to bring him back to the light while other Jedi were ready to kill him if he even sounded angry 1 time

[@taetrrtot6205]

@@drifter139 Obi Wan may have took on the task of training Anakin at first out of respect for his master but you can't tell me he didn't pour his absolute all into Anakin. Out of all the Jedi Obi Wan became the most blind to Anakin's fall because of how much he loved him, he came to see Anakin as his brother. I don't think even Qui Gon's death hurt him half as much as Anakin's fall to the dark side. If anything Obi Wan cared too much. And honestly Anakin only confirmed why the Jedi never should've accepted him into the order to begin with. Anakin was arrogant and closed minded, too resistant to guidance, advice, or criticism if it didn't make him feel good about himself. He was always quick to anger and believed only in his own power from the start. In all honesty I'd say he needed more discipline from the likes of a Mace Windu and less of Obi Wan's wasted patience or Padme's enabling

[@chadflanaganCFC]

Always headcanoned it that Vader was suffering the effects of prolong exposure to the dark side, mixed in with Luke's light side dumok, with the corrupting nature of the dark side destroying one's body and Vader's condition submerging himself in it for two decades would take a toll on anyone, more so someone missing seventy percent of their body. This is further backed up by Luke taking Vader's helmet off, physically he looks just as bad as Palpatine the difference is Vader is supposed to be half Palpatine's age so his body was just that corroded.

[@MasterKota2142]

Well Vader looked bad because he got burned in ROTS, had he not lost in ROTS I doubt he would’ve looked anything close to what he did in ROTJ at that time

[@chadflanaganCFC]

That's the point I was making though, because of his state when he uses the dark side comparably to say Palpatine or even Dooku it's corrupting effects are just that much more pronounced.

[@OJsGuitarDemo-lition]

While its safe to assume that Vader's organic body had badly deteriorated by that point, the main reason was that Vader was fighting his son...his last contection to the jedi that he was and the woman he loved. He could have killed Luke easily on Bespin, but he did not. He wanted Luke to join him and validate the choices he had made all those year ago in becoming Darth Vader. The fact that Luke had chosen almost certain death rather than join his father severely affected Vader emotionally and ultimately affected his connection to the dark side in their final battle. Vader had already lost before their ROTJ fight had begun. After a year of despair and conflict over his son decison and rejection of him, Vader could not bring himself to kill luke, could not even bring himself to hate Luke, and thus could not bring to bear his strength in the darkside during the fight. However, he had to engage with Luke anyway due to the Emperor and had a last ditch hope of bringing the anger out of Luke and switftly turning him loose on Palaptine. Vader did not wish to simply be replaced, nor did he wish to hurt his replacement, being his son. Unfortunately, when Luke brought about his Dark Side onslaught, Vader could not hold up against it due to his body and his weakened/conflicted connection to the Dark Side so any hope of both him and Luke turning their blades on the Emperor crumbled on the bridge. In a nutshell, Vader was forced to fight someone he did not wish to harm who had exponentially grown in power since their last duel. And despite Luke's insistance that he could not fight Vader, the presence of Palpatine meant that Vader had no such luxory.

[@rayonhughes6696]

This is a great perspective on why he was weak. I agree with Vader being conflicted which caused him to lose the battle with Luke. If not for that, I believe he would have defeated his son very easily. Luke, in my opinion still was not really an experienced Jedi as of yet. Darth Vader, was, Darth Vader, the most menacing force in the galaxy. He brought fear to everyone and did whatever he wanted even by force if need be. No one challenged him. But Luke played his cards very well, banking on Anakin evolving from Darth Vader. In which he did.

[@Leondrius]

Two things. Luke was just as conflicted as Vader and even LESS willing to fight. The second point is that Vader was still enough in the dark to threaten Leia. The fact that he could read Luke's mind so easily shows that his connection to the Force had not been diminished.

[@grimdavid]

These words are what brought Anakin Skywalker back and Darth Vader into the mud. "Search your feelings father, you can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate!" That is what Luke was warning him about.

[@Silas-lc9op]

When Luke kicked Vader, he kicked the poop button on his chest. It made things.....awkward for Vader at that point

[@robertocalderon6972]

interesting theory, but if you've ever had children, or have been around them, then you know a toddler can run around with a shit diaper without skipping much of a beat. Also, if you have ever been in a situation where you had to fight for your life, some turds sloshing around in your boxer briefs and smearing all over your nuts and ass cheeks is not going to be on the top of the list as high priority to worry about. Just saying is all.

[@Silas-lc9op]

@@robertocalderon6972 That is the best reply I could have ever hoped for. Informative with examples and strait up facts

[@matthewcowan9131]

One of my favorite things about lore and world-building is when you can be faced with a question and immediately know the answer based on how the world works. As soon as I saw the title I was already thinking, "he was being drawn to the light side of the force by Luke, of course that conflict would hurt his ability to wield the dark side."

[@pranc236]

The death of vaders child could have been his fall back dark side fuel of hate. But when it is your child that you are fighting, there is no hate.

[@Kanooky_Jones]

I do believe that the conflict within, the desire of anakin to escape, contributed greatly to Vader’s weakness.

[@tsunderemerc2963]

something something "only 1% of my real power, the rest of it is in novels"

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

George Lucas luke Skywalker was very powerful unlike Disney Jake soywalker

[@themightofgeburah5882]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021​​⁠​​⁠Luke Skywalker is far more powerful in Disney than in Legends. The only time Luke in Legends could even try Sidious was when he was attempting to use the Dark Side. Base Luke in Disney beat Snoke who was stated to be as strong if not stronger than Sidious was in ROTJ and ROTJ Sidious is STOMP gaps above ROTS Sidious. Force Ghost Luke is relative to World Between Worlds Anakin if not stronger since he was a stronger voice in the Force than Anakin was. In Legends: Vader, Obi Wan and Sidious were shells of their former selves. In Disney? They’re stronger. I know you hate Disney’s Luke but this idea that Luke would be perfectly okay after seeing visions of his Nephew slaughter everyone THEN it’s revealed that he’s the reason for his Nephew’s fall is nuts. This was when he saw what Anakin saw during the Clone Wars on how the Jedi are overall hypocrites and cause their own problems. This character buildup in the Disney Sequels was actually foreshadowed by Obi Wan literally telling Luke to trust his instincts and not his eyes because they can deceive him. He listened to his instincts with Ben and he FINALLY used his eyes to see what was just a scared and troubled boy too late. And you know? Projecting yourself across several different Galaxies to troll your much stronger Nephew before essentially saying that you will haunt him forever, succeed where Yoda failed, turn an inherent Dark Side user by blood and essence into a strong Light Side user and THEN become “one” with The Force when it’s all said and done is more substantial than anything Legends Luke has done. Legends Luke struggled with Baseline Ancient Sith whereas Disney Luke took on 9 Exegol Sith and matched them bro. These guys were being powered by a Force Nexus that made Mustafar look like trash… The Revenge Of The Sith Novel made it clear that Mustafar had boosted Anakin and Obi Wan so much they were connected to The Force more than they had ever been, Obi Wan became stronger than that when he protected Luke in a DISNEY NOVEL. Suit Vader in Disney is stronger than that… Sidious is stronger than The Mortis Gods in Disney, meanwhile Legends Luke, Jaina and the like are out here baffled by Mortis God power and getting mangled by The Mother who literally got beat by Mortis God Power. Hell, in one of the beta scripts for the Disney Sequel Trilogy? Ben Solo just casually absorbs Mortis… There was a POWERCREEP in Disney bro. Legends NJO people haven’t even approached “Return Of Maul” levels of power, they’d get bodied by Savage Oppress. Disney’s NJO though? Well you got Matt Martin saying they can use “most any power” LMAO. Disney Star Wars’ “The Force” is superior to The Zero Point in Fortnite which scales to Marvel Characters like straight up. Disney Luke is too OP for Legends.

[@Hello-bi1pm]

​@@themightofgeburah5882 Matt Martin is missing the point then, everyone just using any power without proper training and adversity is not a good story. That's why Abeloth was made so powerful, she should be above Luke to give him a threat. This is also where Disney messed up with Kylo and Snoke. They're never shown as more powerful than heroes only talked about like they are. Instead we see clown behaviour from Hux which puts entire First Order into question.

[@zedbruh7212]

​​​​@@themightofgeburah5882 lmfao my brother Ive never seen anyone else point this out. Disney Luke used the 2 most powerful force abilities in tlj , shatterpoint and ghost and is the only Jedi to ghost while alive. I actually like Disneys curmudgeon Luke. My main problem with Disney Luke is that he would never consider killing Ben. In legends he outright refuses to even face him even after learning he killed mara Honestly, I even like reys character. What I don't like is how they wrote her story

[@themightofgeburah5882]

@@zedbruh7212 I agree.

[@chrisvb4387]

Appreciate the imrovement in your scripts.:) As always, I enjoy your videos.

[@kennethmacgregor-Gregorach]

Lucas has said that Luke was as powerful in the force as Vader by that fight, but then Vader was further weakened by a resurgent Anakin, so Vader's mind was all over the place

[@ZeldaSam1]

I figured his internal conflict was a major contributing factor.

[@ajmainfahim8569]

Vader was conflicted about fighting his son. Before he & Luke went to the throne room, he stated that it was too late for him. This shows his doubt in my opinion. It doesn't matter if you are a Jedi or Sith, when you are filled with doubt it will weaken your connection to the force.

[@mikevarnerzski]

The Anakin part of Vader wanted to be vanquished and released from his prison.

[@1968thedoors]

I think Darth Vader’s connection to Luke is really big and i think he wanted to meet with Luke again even without the emperor’s consent (Vader leave his place and then the emperor told him not to do it), during their fight i think Vader remains loyal to Palpatine but Luke managed to show him the light, this is why Vader’s moves seem less powerful that their fight on Bespin in Episode 5, Vader lost his agression and anger and it changes him, and by protecting Luke and he turns to light, exactly like he did by caring Obi Wan on his back in Episode 3.

[@RumRunneerFilms]

Vader claimed he killed Anakin Skywalker. In the end, Anakin killed Vader.

[@robertagu5533]

Luke spent the previous night charging his saber with the Plot battery power charger pack...

[@Gor85]

I completely agree. Vader had extreme conflict. He loved Luke,light shining through and going brighter. Love and compassion. Have an amazing day too😀

[@lilgrnmn]

I liked this video a lot. It makes sense. My friends and I talk about this a lot.

[@AnakinSkywalker-mm3gi]

He should never have been weak in the Obi-wan series but Disney screws things up so yeah 😑

[@JonBecker81]

Obi Wan shouldn’t have come close to beating Vader in that. He should have regained enough strength to escape from Vader and go back in hiding after Leía was safe at home. He could have blown up Vaders shuttle or something. There’s a million other scenarios that could have shown Obi Wan as a hero without beating Vader again. If only Disney didn’t suck…

[@AnakinSkywalker-mm3gi]

@@JonBecker81 100% agreed!

[@natraan]

I don't think Vader became weaker, Obi-Wan just became stronger and we have to consider that a force-users power is determined by the force-user's connection to the force. I really don't understand why these "Fanakins" desperately need an invincible image of Vader, being a "chosen one" does not equate invulnerable.

[@johnnybaxter1953]

I love these videos bro. Thanks for making them

[@TheStupendousWave]

Glad you like them!

[@TheStupendousWave]

Glad you like them!

[@robpettigrew3308]

How come nobody ever notices that Luke was holding back in that fight. He was trying to save his father not hurt him.

[@vivi44]

Because the plot needed him to lose. Darth Malgus is older then Vader in ROTJ and he's never lost power because the plot of SWTOR needs him around.

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

In the EU return of the jedi novel it says that both were equal in raw force power but luke lack of experience

[@Darthvader20th]

I think this is canon rotj

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

​@Napunsakraajaarjun yeah canon but not Disney canon

[@a.k.4486]

Darth Vader is no longer that Sith the minute he sees and fights Luke on Bespin. Case in point, he does not kills Admiral Piett when the Flacon hits light speed and escapes them at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. Why? A New Hope is looming on the horizon and Anakin is waking up.

[@gloriousginger]

Luke took Dunmok and turned it back onto Vader. Plus, he is like 48 years old.

[@LordVader.66]

He was 45

[@christophersanchez7731]

Main reason is because Vader was conflicted A Force Wielder’s power varies with their state of mind A Jedi plagued by fear, anger, and hate. Weakens their connection to the Light Side. While such traits strengthen Dark Siders For Dark Siders, guilt, uncertainty, traits that would decrease their devotion to the Dark Side would weaken them Since Luke came into the picture, Vader’s connection to the Dark Side gradually weakened, especially after Bespin. And after Exolgol which Vader sees the Emperor’s designs and can’t be beaten Vader was broken and plagued with conflicting feelings that rekindled his old self within In the end, it led to the death of Vader, and rge rebirth of Anakin’s the true destruction of the Sith In Kylo Ren it’s similar. He has raw potential as a Skywalker with a pristine body But his guilt, his state between Light and Dark. His lingering feelings to his family, all weakened him and held back his true potential, especially after he killed Han Solo, his father. Which allowed Rey to defeat him their first duel Kylo Ren had the potential to be one of the strongest living Force Wielders along with his mother and uncle Luke, but while Vader‘a broken body held back his true power, Kylo Ren’s broken spirit held back his true power as well

[@omniexistus]

Well said.

[@KingHacabu]

It was Luke and Anakin vs Vader, then Luke and Anakin vs Palpatine when Vader protects luke from Palpatine

[@Kanooky_Jones]

Yes. Anakin wasn’t gone, just buried deep away, a little soul in a cell. I too, believe that both Anakin and Luke fought Vader, and won.

[@raincatchfire]

makes sense, good video

[@Chef_PC]

I always assumed Palpatine was pushing Vader through the dark side of the force and feeding him power, almost puppeteering him in the fight with Luke. Just when he thought it was the perfect time, he yanked that power away letting Luke get the upper hand, because it would be more dramatic and help drag Luke further into the dark side.

[@layniebear1237]

another fun video, thanks guys!~

[@nicholascathie6203]

Brilliant video! Thanks guys

[@johnfidelsrevolution]

*Luke was in his Prime Years but What Percent was Luke? Vader was Washed Up. But he still did good. Anakin was stronger in the suit than ever when he saved Luke cause Sidious’s lightning didn’t throw him back plus paralyze him, and that always happens.* *He took the full force of his lightning directly to the head without flinching. In other videos said Anakin crushed his ribs. Vader might have been extremely damaged but he had plenty of fight left in him.* *Yeah, I guess that kick was pretty hard. He must’ve flew back 30 or 40 yards. I don’t remember anyone else flying back that far in Star Wars. Vaders suit is 264lbs. A Force Kick?*

[@charlielynch3916]

I always just saw it as a combination of Luke tapping into the darkside and becoming a lot more powerful combined with Vader not really wanting to fight him

[@Swearengen1980]

The answer is always: Retconning and technology advancements from the 70s.

[@fishlobs]

good vid never considered the potential reasons why darthvader would be weaker then normal

[@darthtator3549]

Power is fleeing

[@redbatsamuraiproductions]

Personally, I believe Vader was pretty much at his full power. I think there were a lot of things that made him look weaker. I do believe he was slightly holding back. He didn’t want to take another limb off Luke. However, I believe that, though he knew Luke increased in skill and power Luke being the son of the chosen one excelled far past anybody’s expectations. This caught Vader offguard personally at the very end of the fight. I don’t think Vader thought Luke would actually turn to the Darkside, let alone tap into it it would be like the power of Anakin versus Vader, catching him. Offguard again would be like Vader facing the power of Anakin, the power of the chosen, one flowing through Luke. Luke having both the lights and the dark within him versus Vader, who was only using the dark

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely correct answer

[@LeonardMosca]

Remember he was 45 years old when the stool took place that might have something to do with it

[@MarvelousSeven]

The young man may know all the rules, but the old man knows all the exceptions...

[@sabinffvi2046]

Perfect analysis. I've thought same thing. His aged crippled body didn't age well. Only through pushing himself with pain and suffering through the darkside could he get victory. But I have noticed when anakin/vader fights those that he has feelings for he holds back and limits his darkside power. Obvious in Vader's duel wth Ashoka in rebels. Wth his physical body weakened through prolong use of darkside of force to push him to extremes. When he cannot tap into the darkside bc anakin loved his son. His darkside power left him. Weak perfect analysis

[@RoyalRipper548]

6:29 And that's why I think Yoda confused the jedi dogma with the feelings with the Sith dogma of not having love feeling either. And it's more obvious since the jedi temple was built upon an acient Sith one.

[@rachelprighel4409]

Your absolutely welcome alright

[@eds1942]

According to Lucas, (Luke) had surpassed his father by this point. It wasn’t just generalized conflict. Which Luke felt conflicted too. Vader was broken. He had damaged the Emperor’s prize. Palpatine had punished him for it. And now the Emperor plans to have him replaced by a boy, just as he had replaced Dooku, but this was his son, whom he wasn’t fully sure was ready and he didn’t want to kill him. But more importantly, his son, Luke on Bespin, the only tie that he had to Padme and his life as Anakin, had rejected him. And now here Luke was, willing risk his life for him because unlike everyone in the galaxy his son believed that there was still good in him. And he was offering to help him overthrow the Emperor. Vader seemed suppressed because of this, he was trying hiding his thoughts and feelings from the Emperor. He was bidding his time, to bring out Luke’s anger because not only would that help to convince Palpatine that this was a real fight, distracting him with the prospect of a powerful young apprentice, but gave him the time to figure out how to use that to his advantage. But at the same time, this was his son. Who was a sincere young Jedi who still believed in his friends and family, reminding him of how things could’ve been for him if he did not allow himself to be consumed for the quest for power, which he knew was way he failed Padme. That was the “conflict”. Other than that. Luke was more powerful than him and would be on his way to bring a worthy opponent of capable of defeating even Palpatine if he became a Jedi Knight. Luke had training and guidance from Obi-Wan and Yoda, both of who could stand up to himself (Obi) and Palpatine (Yoda). They had thought Luke his moves, strengths and weaknesses, which powers he liked to use and how to counter them. Luke was a mirror, and Vader was unprepared for that, and got his @$& kicked by a boy with 2 years of off and on training. And we can see it every time they came to blows. And by b the time Luke loses it and drives him back in a fit of rage, you can even see Vader limping his way back with scorch marks on his armor. Because you see, Lucas had cut some of the extended scenes of their battle for time and pacing which before Disney was canon so long as they did not contradict what we saw on screen.

[@piotrj333]

According to what was said behind the scenes (between Lucas and writers), Luke was Vader's equal and Vader was at his strongest. But I believe that Luke was becomming "true" choosen one in final moments, like both light side and dark side of the force working together to defeat Vader because that is what force wanted. But since he achieved balance of the force he wasn't swayed to kill Vader.

[@KazeMunashii]

tell me something the wikis cant already tell me

[@EAcapuccino]

Confliction comes to mind. All the while Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were having an internal fight that culminated in Vaders deafeat. x2 😏

[@rachelprighel4409]

Your absolutely welcome

[@ImYourOverlord]

Even though technically, Vader didn't kill Kenobi, yeah.

[@Makise3]

So basically it was a combination of different things. 1. Holding back against his son 2. His suit weakening and hurting his body for so many years 3.Being conflicted because of his son 4. The toll it takes on the body because of using the dark side for so many years 5. He was 45 years old

[@rachelprighel4409]

Good idea

[@christiansmith-of7dt]

I wonder if they will ever figure out a way to make me feel better

[@JediJudahJeanius]

This is a sound analysis and both Jedi & Sith teachings about touching the Force repeated throughout the Star Wars lore canon films, shows, books, and Expanded Universe is Focus and having a clear mind. Some of Qui-Gons first advice to Anakin back on Tatooine is to focus and clear his mind. Mental conflict slows a warriors movement and instincts. This is similar to the fight between T'Challa & Killmonger at the waterfall. T'Challa was conflicted and very early in the fight has the killing blow and asks Killmonger to yield. Luke represents Vader's guilt he reminds him of Padme. Jedi who feels fear can be cut off from the Force via Obi-Wan in the beginning of his series.... So for a Sith we can say guilt is a result of being conflicted by the Light side of the Force. Kylo Ren comes to mind he was conflicted when it came time to attack his mother Leia

[@rachelprighel4409]

Bad idea

[@rachelprighel4409]

Exactly

[@rachelprighel4409]

Done and may the force be with you always master general sir Hayden Christensen Skywalker himself ❤❤❤❤ò

[@rachelprighel4409]

Good morning everyone

[@venkelos6996]

So, I'm not going to argue wirh this; the Dark Side is both treacherous, and has a deleterious effect on its users, but I feel like this might be, somewhat, ignoring another possible factor; the presence of the Emperor. As we know, the Dark Side is a path to abilities some would view as unnatural; literally snaking into people, and taking from them, while pretending to support them. I'll be the first to admit that what I am about to say is mostly pointless; a simple mechanic, made for a game, by a third party, but in several of the Star Wars RPGs, top-level Sith Lords had a special ability called Sith Master, which allowed them to basically diminish their power, and foist it upon another, but in a way where they could immediately take it back, and even leave their bereft servant exhausted by the sudden loss. This could allow the Master, who probably wasn't going out, to "enhance his servants, who would just feel that THEY were stronger than they really were, and then, if they failed, or rebelled, they could be punished with the loss. This is hypothetically how Mara Jade maintained some of her ability, yet she lost it, for a time, after the Emperor died. This could contribute to how Anakin bested Dooku, despite not really being the realized Chosen One, yet, or just blaming age, when Yoda could still cheese muppet along at over 800, and this could feed into Luke thinking he wad besting Vader, despite his years of greater experience, and combat hardening. Now, again, this is just a mechanic for a game, but we certainly have more "official" sources that show the Emperor being able ti influence, and manipulate, others, so I find it odd that, with him WANTING Vader to lose, and at Luke's hand, that we assume he had nothing to do with it, apart from sitting there, making them have to fight, instead of Vader already sneaking Luke off, somewhere, to begin prepping him for someday killing Palpatine. I'm very fond of tbe idea that he was subtly buffing Luke, and nerfing Vader, to steer the battle in the way he wanted it to go. Of course, that's just me, and no real source to support it.

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely

[@XnipiExelon]

It's not because of the plot or Luke getting stronger. It's because Vader never wanted to harm his son. He was fighting himself and Luke at the same time. He was fighting his guilt for what he did and his loyalty to Palpatine over his love for Padme and his son, his family.

[@rachelprighel4409]

ABSOLUTELY

[@rachelprighel4409]

Yeah right mate

[@seto_kaiba_]

5:49 Yeah no, Obi-Wan clearly wanted to bring Anakin back from a place of love too. He just was not the right person. Anakin/Vader felt betrayed by him. The only other person with any connection to him that tried to bring him back to the light after Obi-Wan and Padme tried was Ahsoka and she came close to breaking his wall of darkness before getting yanked into an alternate timeline. Luke though was his literal son and is bound to after everything bring out some good in him--even if initially the extent of his "good" was a love of his son that ideally placed him in the role of a Sith Lord. But Luke refusing and still authentically believing him kept sowing the roots of his reconversion back to the light. Until Palpatine in a twist of irony, blasts Luke with lightning and nearly kills him which makes Vader turn back to the light in a scene reminiscent of his turn to the dark.

[@jimdigitalvideo]

There were a few reasons as mentioned..........but the main one was that Vader was holding back because he had no intention of killing his son.

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely correct

[@rachelprighel4409]

Very well then

[@rachelprighel4409]

Good thinking alright

[@kseniaboytseva4714]

Vader didn't get any weaker. Luke was lucky that Anakin started to wake up. If the dark lord had been in better moral and physical shape, without the internal conflict between the Jedi personality and his alter ego generated by the dark side, he would not have held back - the result would have been different.

[@bohnimanbarbaruah7914]

Was it the conflict inside him that managed to get him kicked by his own son humiliatingly??

[@Leondrius]

Yoda told Luke that he was ready to face Vader and he had nothing else to teach him not knowing that Vader could be redeemed. People seem to overlook that fact.

[@kseniaboytseva4714]

@@Leondrius Yes, only Luke and Padme believed in Anakin's redemption, as well as Qui-Gon, who felt that the boy he wanted to take as his padawan was still inside dark lord, alive, locked up, sleeping and waiting for salvation. Perhaps Shmi would also believe that her son remained kind at heart and could be brought back to the light. Although the Force clearly had its own plans for the chosen one, which it fulfilled despite the presence of those who wanted to prevent their implementation.

[@kseniaboytseva4714]

@@bohnimanbarbaruah7914 Maybe. They both didn't want to kill each other. Another dark lord wouldn't stand on ceremony with Luke. And Luke would hardly have tried to save another Sith lord if he hadn't felt good in him and that he could be brought back to the light. According to the book novelization, Vader's chest control panel from life support system was damaged in battle. One leg was broken and the other was not working properly. Under other conditions, he would hardly have let Luke catch him off guard and would have killed him earlier if he wanted to. But he tried to win his son over to his side in order to unite against the emperor and rule together unite after defeating Sidious.

[@bohnimanbarbaruah7914]

@@kseniaboytseva4714 Oohh. U mean that part, where Sidious confronted Vader about joining the missing pieces of how Vader's son was even alive inspite of being told that Vader killed Padme out of anger. And then him being thrown at the exact same place in Mustafar the way Obi Wan did to him, but this time by Sidious with all his damaged cybernetics. But he did managed to get them repaired in Mustafar and went off to Exegol to discover his son's severed wrist. Is it after that u were refering to that he had been damaged beyond repair?? Plus there is the matter of age though to be honest. Dooku wasn't able to keep up with Anakin in his Prime during his younger days. But since, this is the SON of THE CHOSEN ONE, we are talkin about. He is bound to have lots of potential than his father both in Force Power and in Lightsaber Skill. Vader already suffered severe injuries in Mustafar, so its also obvious in a way that his already torn & decayed body can't keep up with his cybernetics. I am not saying he's that weak. He is an engineer as well. He can repair himself, yes. He is strong in the force, yes. Its his previous damages, that had almost torn the full potential of Knightfall Anakin into half. But Legends Luke, is by far in a way higher level than Vader. It wasn't luck. It was meant to be.

[@Imhotep397]

Luke was more powerful than Vader, younger and far more nimble. The dark side deteriorates the body as Palpatine’s raisin face proves. This is probably the main reason Sith move away from light saber dueling and go to dark side lightning.

[@MarvelousSeven]

Interesting, I always thought Palps was using "boost abilities of another" via force to help Luke defeat Vader so as to replace the latter.

[@rachelprighel4409]

Definitely

[@noahorakwue2653]

I always thought Vader’s weakness was from Luke’s taunts. Like are final fight with Darth Sion in Kotor 2 you don’t win by overpowering him you win by convincing him to let go.

[@EvilJ069]

I dun care what the lore says, Episode 3 Anakin would wipe the floor with Luke

[@X12578]

The lore agrees with u

[@EvilJ069]

@@X12578 Disney "lore" says Luke was more powerful

[@chewher4171]

It was the conflict. Could you be made to hurt your own son!? He was fighting himself more than he was fighting Luke.

[@Leondrius]

​@MasterJadeExactly. Luke was AT LEAST as conflicted as Vader. He was on the edge of crossing over into the dark side the entire fight.

[@seto_kaiba_]

@@Leondrius Yeah but that worked to his advantage. Being conflicted by the light as a Sith Lord is definitely not an advantage.

[@Leondrius]

@@seto_kaiba_ How is it any different?

[@seto_kaiba_]

@@Leondrius ​ @Leondrius It just is. The dark and light side don't work the same. The dark side seems to like Jedi tapping into their rage to give them power. Its more of an added bonus as the light side that said Jedi understands isn't quite as weakened as when a Sith Lord taps into the light side and allows their dark emotions like hatred and rage dissipate. The main issue with Jedi tapping into the dark side is that its TOO strong. Its alluring and makes said Jedi really want to keep using it.

[@piotrkijak1774]

@@Leondrius Luke wasn't as inflicted as Vader. Vader's entire history was a lie a persona built on fear, anger. The moment you get to experience the fact that you have a off-spring in his case son. That shows you compassion and love, it completely ruins that persona and it was his connection to dark side. He probably already in the Battle was reconsidering things. Luke on the otherhand conflict was him becoming like his father, fighting his father and because of that he cut himself from Legacy of Anakin Skywalker even his lightsaber. For Vader it was inner conflict, fighting his son, fighting his psychological his memories and experiencing emotions such as regret and compassion

[@chrispember172]

it's simple, he was conflicted because he was fighting his son. He could no longer draw from the dark side like he would in the past.

[@rachelprighel4409]

At the moment

[@friedriceboy2951]

When are we going to get “what if qui gon trained anakin part 3”???!!!

[@grahamturner2640]

I'm not sure if he does "what if" style content anymore.

[@friedriceboy2951]

@@grahamturner2640 that’s so sad

[@friedriceboy2951]

@@grahamturner2640 it was my favorite series

[@rachelprighel4409]

Of course I will

[@PhoenixDawnX77]

Plot!

[@dr.wolfenwho4310]

He didn't, Luke just got stronger, and with vader holding back it makes perfect sense

[@RoyalRipper548]

0:50 Even in episode 4 with Obi Wan

[@rachelprighel4409]

Good idea

[@rachelprighel4409]

Good idea

[@samuelrobles3737]

Day 503 of asking for a part 3 of what if anakin was trained by qui gon

[@MrSpannners]

Before watching: I'd say that vader at this point isn't truely where he has been in the dark. So his access to it isn't as strong, so he is trying to fight as he has been for years, while also pulling his pubches (so to speak) against Luke. Eg. he has knowingly and unknowingly handicapped himself in terms of his capabilities.

[@rachelprighel4409]

Maybe

[@rachelprighel4409]

No way

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely correct

[@rachelprighel4409]

Your welcome

[@rachelprighel4409]

Your absolutely welcome

[@rachelprighel4409]

Maybe not

[@tritan3900]

Cool

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely

[@rachelprighel4409]

Absolutely

[@rachelprighel4409]

All