Why Death in the Lord of the Rings is a Gift

[@anni.68]

“In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory.” (Aragorn)

[@InkandFantasy]

Exactly! Such a beautiful quote. Thank you for watching!!

[@EricRuskoski]

Indeed, More than memory is substantial!

[@gabrialcanada6764]

@@anni.68 elvish propoganda!

[@connorhawthorne541]

I wonder sometimes if Elrond ever regretting choosing the fate of the elves. As half elves, Elrond and his brother Elros were given a choice after the war against Morgoth of whether they wanted to be elves or men. Elrond choose to be an elf, but Elros choose to share in the fate of man and became the first king of the Numenoreans. After all the suffering that Elrond had to endure over the thousands of years, It makes total sense that he would view the gift of death given to his brother, Elros, with envy.

[@Leastmachine]

I don't think he did. He loved his brother and spent his life guiding his (Elros') lineage back to greatness. He could've easily just been a hermit or sailed West, but he chose to stay in Middle Earth and honor his brother's legacy for millenia.

[@carlborneke8641]

There is a quote from Doctor Who that I think fits this perfectly. “Immortality isn’t living forever. It’s everyone and everything else dying.”

[@hecate235]

if you're the only immortal, then yes, then living is constant loss. But the elves live on and on, with the gods, in a land that never changes. I'd get awful bored.

[@wampyrelli]

@@hecate235 I'd say that their minds would work accordingly to their lifespan. And their approach to everyone dying would be specific too - they'd probably accept, that humans die, about as well as we accept, that we may own several pets during our lifetime.

[@ButcherOfBeek]

Man thank you for this video. During the reading of the Silmarillion I wrote that line of Tolkien calling death the gift of Illuvatar to men I thought this was the most brilliant and eye opening line of the entire book, but I never heard other people talking about it to a point that I was mistaken and Tolkien never said this. As you said it made me rethink my idea of death. A story without an end isn't a good story, so death makes life purpousfull. We only have a certain time on this earth, so we cant waste our days because maybe we won't be able to follow our dreams anymore.

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you for watching i’m glad you liked it!!

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Not when an even worse fate awaits you afterwards

[@afrinaut3094]

I think Eru’s gifts were different, he didn’t “favor” one race over the other. But gave them different gifts, which follows fellowship & brotherhood themes in LOTR. Some humans feared death, & some Elves envied human mortality. Both were foolish, & didn’t understand Eru’s ultimate goal for each.

[@superslayerguy]

LOTR really out here getting me more in touch with my spiritual side than religion ever did. Great video man.

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you!!!

[@joriankell1983]

That actually makes sense given how many biblical narratives and philosophy is written in the LoTR

[@joshuabrown7815]

It’s my opinion that Tolkien understood Christianity more than any other person since Christ himself.

[@blackestknightx8881]

​@@joshuabrown7815what???

[@setonix9151]

@@joshuabrown7815 Have you ever read any Doctors of the Church? Aquinas? what about Tolkien's own countrymen, Saint John Henry Newman? Tolkien would most likely be appalled by that statement.

[@ArchangelTyrael]

Feel like this is illustrated bests by Tolkien's quotes: "PIPPIN: I didn't think it would end this way. GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what? GANDALF: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise. PIPPIN: Well, that isn't so bad. GANDALF: No. No, it isn't.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

That was G Dawgs afterlife not pippin

[@gurmsekhon4185]

Fair enough. It's about as close as we get to anyone discussing the matter in any LOTR movies. These are not really Tolkien quotes, though, are they? Tolkien never penned such a conversation. This is movie-only dialogue, penned by Jackson-Walsh-Boyens for their particular movie adaptation. Perhaps "I didn't think it would end this way" was inspired by Pippin's actual words to himself in the final paragraphs of Book Five of the LOTR. As the Men of the West (plus one Elf, one Dwarf, one Hobbit, one Wizard and two Half-Elves) await the assault - in Tolkien's work it is the host of Mordor that attacks and the host of the west that defends, not the other way around, as it is in the Jackson movie - Pippin realises that he will probably be killed and wishes Merry were there, so they could die together. He also suddenly understands Denethor a little better and feels sympathy for him. The "swift sunrise", etc, given to Movie-Gandalf are lifted from the finale of the LOTR narrative; in one of the last paragraphs of Book Six: "And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise." Frodo has found peace at last. And there he dies. Frodo's death is not reported in the LOTR text. But in the Akallabêth - published in The Silmarillion (1977) - it is made clear that any mortal who arrived on the further shores of the sundering Sea would be overwhelmed by the majesty of that place and "would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast." The nature of death within the Tolkien Legendarium requires some discussion and thought. There's simply not time or space for that kind of thing an action movie - and all English language movie adaptations that I've seen are most definitely primarily action movies. The Action Jackson movie dialogue you've quoted is about as much as can be done.

[@gabrialcanada6764]

@ArchangelTyrael only if your one of his favorite kids. If your a human you just feck off and die and get a "mystery gift" congrats on playing.

[@dlxmarks]

Please don't attribute that Jackson/Boyens/Walsh rehash to Tolkien. Tolkien's Gandalf, like the rest of the Ainur, did not know the fate of men after death and him speculating like that would be near sacrilegious. Also Gandalf knew that death is not a path "that we all must take" for a Maia like him or the elves. That team did a fine job at adapting but every time they strayed from Tolkien's path, they fell flat on their faces which is why I already know _The Hunt for Gollum_ is going to be a trainwreck.

[@dlxmarks]

@@gurmsekhon4185 The experience of a mortal in Aman is unclear. There is the warning of withering faster in the land's splendor but Tolkien also speculated in _Morgoth's Ring_ that mortals might gain extended lives to the point where the fëa [soul], in its unaffected desire to leave the world, eventually "would in loathing and without pity desert the hröa [body], and it would live on, a witless body, not even a beast but a monster, a very work of Melkor in the midst of Aman, which the Valar themselves would fain destroy." Add to this Sam, in the unused epilogue in _Sauron Defeated_ , saying to Elanor "Before he went Mr. Frodo said that my time maybe would come. I can wait. I think maybe we haven't said farewell for good." So perhaps a mortal's experience in Aman would depend on his attitude going in: either withering or unnaturally extended life for the greedy or healing in peace before choosing to pass on in hope when they were ready.

[@gordontall2441]

The Silmarillion makes it pretty obvious that Tolkien's world was ultimately a reflection of the Christian faith. Yes, the lore, archetypes, mythical creatures, epic lands, etc., were inspired by Anglo Saxon culture, but the "why" of being was ultimately the fall of man and his reunification with God. Tolkien was a great man and a great writer, and despite his professed dislike of allegory, it's impossible for an author or any artist to truly create separate from their nature.

[@InkandFantasy]

very well said!!

[@legioinvigilata]

Also Famously, his works were- as he wrote them- meant to be a mythology of England. A reflection? I doubt, but the values and inspirations of religion and great Sagas like Beowulf? Yes.

[@Kelnx]

For a man like Tolkien, the basic underlying truths of his fictional world and the real world must be the same. Not so much a case of allegory or trying to preach anything, but simply the obvious connective tissue between two worlds had to be a basic concept of a creator and the soul. For him I think that marked the difference between total fantasy and a "fantastical prehistory", which he would be more interested in. He certainly never dwelt too much on Eru or any specific theological concepts. So I think his dislike for allegory remains much intact and he showed great restraint considering how important his faith was to him. His good friend and eventual atheist turned Christian apologist C.S. Lewis showed no such restraint at all. You can see this major difference between the two in their writings. Tolkien comes off as fairly agnostic in comparison with respect to their fantasy books.

[@vernandsockey8611]

Yep. Allegory and worldview are two different things.

[@johnprimm35]

Yes but. Even without the obvious religiosity of Tolkien, I always knew he was creating a Christian universe. It was Joseph Pearce who showed me Tolkien’s catholicity.

[@LukeNasti]

I love how this video wastes none of my time and is quality from the first second to the last. Good video!

[@InkandFantasy]

I really appreciate the kind words!! Thank you so much for watching!!

[@wadewilson9031]

Hence why while facing down the greatest evil he’d see in his life time and terrified to rush into battle, Theoden rallies his troops by chanting ‘DEATH!!!’

[@InkandFantasy]

One of the most goosebump inducing part of the books!!

[@josephbulkin9222]

Eomer, not Theoden.

[@sophiegallinger8004]

He stole that line from Book Éomer, an Éomer who just found his last two relatives lying "dead" on the battlefield. "And he looked at the slain, recalling their names. Then suddenly he beheld his sister Éowyn as she lay, and he knew her. He stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white; and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him. 'Éowyn, Éowyn!' he cried at last: 'Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!' Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset. Over the field rang his clear voice calling: 'Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!' And with that the host began to move. But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards." --The Return of the King, Book 5, Ch 6, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields

[@bilcal]

Excellent explanation of the difference between the gifts to men and elves. I liked your reply in a comment below: "...specifically the one i’m referring to is the freedom of not worrying about what comes after and not being shackled by something you can’t really control or prevent..." It dovetails with Gandalf's comment to Frodo in Moria: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil." Will be subscribing and looking forward to future videos. All the best! 👍

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so much, I’m glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the kind words!!

[@talesoftheeldar8688]

This Video is Valar propaganda

[@InkandFantasy]

hahaha yes

[@MattiavonSigmund]

Not really its just saying the truth, and since truth is good the Valar are also such

[@TheChampFighter]

Art thou an ally of Sauron and MORRRGOTH!? 😡

[@rosenbaumquartz]

​@@MattiavonSigmund 🤓

[@luthandomdadane]

Always, they have favoured the elves! Melkor threatens the awakening elves: They declare war immediately and throw him into a pit! Awakened humanity is under threat: Maybe a little sunshine will make them feel better. Elves: Come to Aman and enjoy an endless bliss away from the corruption of Morgoth Men: Valinor is far too good for you; stay with the corruption where you belong. It's for your own good, trust us (but we'll kill you if you try though) Nothing but reckless hate from those Powers in the West

[@Hemomancer]

Great video, as always! You did a fantastic job of helping sum up how death and freedom from the music were Eru’s gifts for his favored children. Though you need great wisdom in order to appreciate these gifts as blessings and not as cursing. We are all going to do. Cheers!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so much for the support!!!

[@Marianna55776]

Death in any world or realm is always a gift. That which we have control over (ultimately life) is difficult. We all live through hardships in receipt of this gift, even those who reject it. This world is but a passing state of consciousness 🕊️✨

[@Oakshield2]

Hail the Erugorithm for bringing me here. Great stuff.

[@AerYdmyg]

I had to download the video bc of how much fact you dropped. This helps fight of the shadow thank you friend❤️

[@EmisoraRadioPatio]

Just a day ago I had a nightmare about how we are all living in a farce, a program, an elaborate hamster cage. It gave me a claustrophobic sensation, making me hyperventilate and scream into a pillow, “THAT’S IT.” But then I remembered that there is a final release to what we call life-death. What lies beyond it, I don’t know. But I believe immortality of our current material, corporeal form would be a curse. The promise of death comforts me. It encourages me to do my best in all things. I’m not sure how I stumbled upon your video, but Tolkien’s words speak to me. Thanks.

[@dbruh936]

Your comment brought to mind a saying I love from the Gospel of Matthew: "Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly of heart, and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

[@shorbao]

I enjoyed this video. The background music being great and the perfect volume, and the way you talk about things are also very relaxing indeed. Subscribed.

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so so much i really appreciate it!!

[@_Mutto_]

Yes, I also like xzibit’s “paparazzi” playing over LOTR clips. XD

[@AngelArm1110]

One could consider the Numenoreins longevity as a sort of experiment, to see if the souls of Men were able to become even better, given just a little more time to grow. Obviously the experiment was largely unsuccessful, so in true God fashion, Eru sent a flood to wipe them out.

[@arthurrebello919]

I honestly think numenor was simply down to the Valar having no idea on how to deal with mortals. They tried treating men like they did the elves and it simply didn't work. Telling the king no didn't matter in 4 generations when everyone forgot about it, and it was probably very confusing to them

[@Morunic777]

In our current situation, death is still pretty much the best not just in fantasy.

[@mikloscsuvar6097]

Why?

[@Fantasyfanatic-gz9nk]

1:54 that doesnt mean they become PART of Eru, it means they become reconcilled to him. They would still be seperate beings

[@إبراهيم-م7ض1ف]

How on earth you have 145 subs only? u deserve way more than that. Keep up the good work man its really amazing.

[@InkandFantasy]

Thanks, will do!

[@michaeldonaldson9378]

Saw there was 999 subscribers, had to hit the sub button. Congrats on 1k subs!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you!!!!

[@michaeldonaldson9378]

@@InkandFantasyfor sure! Loving your content! Keep it up!

[@Churchmilitant67]

I don't know what your spiritual outlook is, but so far, it's a pretty good summary of Traditional Catholic understanding of death. The Catholic saints perfectly understood that death is a gift, and once you understood this, you could better serve God. Bravo!

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

An immortal race envieing men's mortality is such an interesting concept. In a way it elevates Men above the elves, even if they cant see it.

[@mr.mushroomman8521]

That was super cool! Thanks for creating and sharing! :)

[@JamesVideoCollection]

Excellent video (thanks KZbin algorithm for the recommendation lol). Subscription earned!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so much!

[@fr.andygutierrez5356]

Well done! I look forward to watching your channel grow. Subbed!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the support!!

[@stijnvantongerloo9122]

Thank you for this Legendarium-infused meditation about death.

[@kamerondonaldson5976]

its not what comes after death that causes fear. it's the unpleasant circumstances of the death itself. because for death to happen it must mean there is insufficient resources for the forces of good to watch over us and protect us from any and all adversity. if we aren't being watched over and protected we might as well have been forsaken by our creators. but at least you got the part about defiance of fate right.. it's just that... it shouldn't require death's involvement. it should be like choosing what to eat for lunch.

[@revol_000]

Eru: You Elves, my children, are immortal, beutiful and wiser than anyone. You dwarves, will be the best craftsmen ever. Humans: And what about us? Eru: You.. can go and die :3

[@gabrialcanada6764]

Because Eru plays favorites. Its a great story but its theology is worse thsn its philosophy. The morality in lotr comes from themes of friendship, mercy, and the understanding that having power doesnt make one wiser or kinder and often has the opposite effect. These are not Christian but universal values that reflect nothing gained from the theology of Tolkeins world. I would even argue these arent catholic principles because that church venerates power imbalances and says "listen to the preist hes my voice on this earth. Why would you want to be literate and study that word yourself?" Tolkeins world is a calvinist nightmare where the gods are real and will curse you with some stupid song if you go against thier arbitrary orders for your fate that have existed since before the universe. That's not hopeful. Sam and Frodos friendship or the simple human acts of kindness are.

[@evanlee6644]

​@@gabrialcanada6764Shit bruh Eru can play favorites all he wants as long as the I partake in the Song of Creation.

[@Damian-ho1yb]

Good explanation bro!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you for watching, I'm glad you liked it!!

[@rodrigomoreira1596]

Really good video!

[@WhatIsSanity]

It's beautiful really, mortality and how we can choose overall what to do while we are here.

[@odysodys1098]

Tolkien is a gift. "The next message from God to you is wherever you are whenever you are ready to hear it." Ouspensky

[@SenorDiego.]

You my man have a subscriber

[@Hemomancer]

There are dozens of us! Soon to be more!

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you I really appreciate it!!!

[@alexspain9103]

In a world with entropy, immortality is a curse.

[@rosegonella3098]

"Which of us, then, should envy the other?"

[@theloweffortchannel7211]

In essence, the race of men seem to be the ones that, in the end, can actually choose their own fates.

[@DreamersOfReality]

Not really? They can't choose to remain. They too, are shackled, just in a different way.

[@GuyChooo]

Half elf does, not men

[@MT-tainment]

Amazing video 🔥

[@rubensoeteman]

Through the gift of longer lifespans, they were given the opportunity to persevere and rise higher. But instead they fell harder than ever thought possible. Beautiful, well said and a good job capturing the message of the faith of men and especially Numenor. Though was it only Numenorian kings who were given rings?

[@tonts5329]

Depends on the source Material, some of the Rings were given to Kings like Helm Hammerhand and a near-death/Dead Isildur or Kings from the East/Haradrim Lands according to the Shadow of Mordor/War Game series. Though it isn't (To my knowledge) stated that any of those specific Kings were ever given a ring, excluding The Witch King who ruled the Kingdom of Angmar. (Though he was presumably a king prior to ruling Angmar at least according to how the Story for the Battle for Middle-Earth II Witch King expansion explains the fall of Arnor.) 9 Rings are possessed by the Ring-Wraiths who are most likely the Kings who were originally gifted these Rings. I doubt the Kings of 9 different Human Kingdoms were all from Numenor.

[@aiforgemaster]

Interesting theme, nice video.

[@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi]

Tolkien being very Roman Catholic is the easiest answer. His amazing story is full of allusions to his religious dogma. Death, suffering, and Martyrdom are celebrated in catholocism.

[@RJCE420]

Thank God for Tolkien being religious or we wouldn't have LOTR🙏🏼

[@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi]

@@RJCE420 He wasn't trying to be inspired by the bible but by Beowulf a pagan story. He was trying to create an anglo-saxon epic since xtianity came through and destroyed any pagan epics for the british isles.

[@RJCE420]

@@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi “There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.” You are right. Tolkien didn't try to be inspired. It just happened🙏🏼

[@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi]

@@RJCE420 Influenced would be most accurate. All authors are influenced by the culture they are raised in. Tolkien's own words point to what inspired him and why he wrote

[@RJCE420]

@@NoneofyourBusiness-iv6pi I couldn't agree more, God bless Mabel Tolkien.

[@Someguy_9]

So, what, they get 'freedom' by acknowledging their destiny, not caring about death, and only doing exactly what they're supposed to do? Some freedom. We're, uh...*sure* that Morgoth was a baddie? Yes? Okay, just making sure. Snarking and religious philosophy aside, good video, well rounded, long enough without overdoing it. Well done! May the algorithm shine upon you.

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you very much for the feedback!! I suppose that freedom is subjective, but specifically the one i’m referring to is the freedom of not worrying about what comes after and not being shackled by something you can’t really control or prevent but the beauty of this subject is the variety of opinions. Thanks again for the kind words and I hope to see you in another video!!!

[@disgruntledtoons]

Men: Why do we have to die when the Elves get to live? Elves: Why do we have to live when Men get to die?

[@RighteousAvenger]

When men die, their souls go to a Motel 6 on the East Coast, but only Eru Iluvatar knows which one.

[@InkandFantasy]

that’s hilarious

[@El-Silver]

It's based on Christianity despite some say the gift of men contradict its theology it doesn't yes in the Catholic Faith death is a curse men were not supposed to dies but when men fell he tried to eat of the tree of life to become immortal god prohibited this because in his mercy god knew to live an immortal life in sin would be a life full of suffering with no end so while death is the results of sin its also a mercy and hence why humans only become immortal after sin is for ever defeated

[@reesespieces5386]

Does someone know the names of all the background music? I recognize some of it but not all

[@emg910728]

As one who lives without belief in anything hereafter, death is still going to be a gift. Were I not a coward, I would seek it.

[@williamredtail9564]

Your on a role my fellow tolkin loving friend

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you so so much!!! I really appreciate it

[@Overwatch9]

Feels good to be mortal.

[@anenthusiast6942]

Damn, that's deep

[@chrisb9377]

Very interesting

[@crocrox2273]

Shame we didn't have new lotr movies or series in years

[@DarkNorthEmperor]

War of the Rohirrim is coming

[@RedHuntsman]

Look what they did with Rings of Power. I want to see Middle-earth stories accurately portrayed on the big or small screen. The timelessness of Tolkien's stories requires no "modernization". If they did, no one would still be reading Tolkien or rewatching the LOTR films.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

Are elfs in the silmarilion described as immortals , everlasting?

[@EmothicVonHellsing]

Funny how these are considered as gifts, yet it seems to fall to a matter of perspective. Which is sometimes hinted at, even if unintentionally. Or perhaps just my own philosophical look at it. Elves will see mortality as a gift, and their own immortality as a curse. While men, and it's obvious by the Numinorians, That they can easily see their mortality as a curse and can envy those who have the gift of immortality. Even more so when it seems that the gift of mortality can only be appreciated and used effectively when it is accepted. But when it is not accepted, it has dire ramifications ... But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about as I'm very tired at the time of typing this out.

[@lsixty30]

Where does it say elves get new bodies and come back to Arda when then die?

[@InkandFantasy]

It is mentioned throughout the Silmarillion, as well as the LoTR itself, and a great example is the character of Glorfindel who died in the First Age but was brought back swiftly from the Halls of Mandos!

[@EricRuskoski]

A good video! certainly death is a transition and not a final end, to those who fancy the idea of nothingness, or what the bible says on these topics, read on a little. I'll try to make this comprehensive, but brief. There is a notion that is becoming popular, I've heard this idea from Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and also in Star Trek Picard's season 1 or 2 last episode, wherein, death (the final end version) is an idea that is welcome, and everlasting life is viewed as undesirable... When viewed through a Christian Lens, this is an idea directly from the Devil... You have to understand, we are living our lives in what the bible calls, the lap of the evil one, or "The Domain of darkness" and we are cursed, and exposed to agonizing existences of almost constant and varying forms of suffering... So Death (of our agonizing, decaying body) can be and is a relief and rest, but only if you enter into an immortal life through Christ, otherwise, eternity is only an inescapable torment that does indeed go on forever... and why? Because Christ defeated Death itself... God defines immortality as "Knowing the father" and there is no other name given under Heaven by which man can be saved except Jesus Christ. Everlasting Life through Christ is Blessed and not cursed, its full of Joy everlasting, "in his right hand are pleasures everlasting" and we do get new bodies that are amazing! 1 Corinthians 15 Hope this has shed light on the topic, brought encouragement for those who have the hope, and drawn in those who are his, or want to be!

[@RueKit-s9d]

So what of the Nazguls? Their souls still corrupted in middle earth. There's some loopholes in Tolkien's concept, still i like Tolkien's lore

[@johnwindev]

what about dwarves

[@InkandFantasy]

The afterlife of the dwarves is incredibly mysterious, though it is theorized that they will eventually return to stone whence they came and be reawaken in the Second Music and the recreation of the world. Until then, when they die, they believe that they go to the Halls of Mandos, not unlike the elves, but in a part of it specifically made for them! I hope this answers your question at least partly. Thank you for watching!

[@NastyCupid]

But if a man lives an evil life (evil as in, going against the will of the Valar), does he still join with Ilúvatar? Or does his restless soul become part of Arda?

[@InkandFantasy]

As far as I know and have read, there are no different fates for men. They all go to the Halls of Mandos for a time and then they leave the world. It is not even truly known that even the good ones actually go to Ilúvatar, it is an assumption based on Tolkien’s theology and certain hints within the Legendarium. So unfortunately I cannot tell you. If I were to hazard a guess, the Halls of Mandos at a minimum can serve as a place for them to reevaluate their lives before moving on. Then again, you could argue that if they are forced into redemption, this contradicts the nature of free will but then we would be delving into things I am not equipped to answer without more research. Very good question though and thank you very much for watching as well as commenting. I’ll try to find out more!!

[@ryansauchuk7290]

All men go to be Eru's slaves for eternity

[@Rorschachqp]

That would be funny if the spirits of good men were the ones welcoming the elves to the Isles.

[@captainmacmellon8909]

So he cursed the men on Numenanor?

[@TheToxicDefender]

Shit I’m tired of life already

[@Gyrannon]

If Elves are incapable of death, and would simply be reborn, then why leave the fate of Arda in the hands of Tyrant, when it is as you said, "their duty to watch over Arda"? And Elrond telling Aragorn, "I will not leave my daughter here to die", is that not a contradiction? Death is apparently exclusive to Men, and Death is suppose to be a "gift", so why does Elrond oppose that gift? And by leaving for The Undying Lands, are they not betraying the charge given to them by Eru Illuvitar? Furthermore, if Death is such a "good thing", then isn't Sauron doing good by delivering that "gift" to everyone?

[@InkandFantasy]

Thank you for the comment! For starters, especially regarding your first question, the answer lies with the plans of Eru in the coming of the age of Men, in which they take up the mantle from the elves of protecting Middle Earth. I think my video on free will may give you a better idea on Iluvatar’s role within the story! (also elven reincarnation isn’t immediate and elves usually are never sent back to Middle Earth after becoming alive again, instead staying in Valinor) For the second question, it should be noted that immortals envying mortality doesn’t necessarily apply to every single immortal. Keep in mind that Elrond himself was as a half elven given the choice between immortality and mortality, choosing the former as opposed to his beloved brother Elros who chose the latter and died. Now in terms of Arwen, as a half elven descendant too can choose and she chooses mortality for the sake of Aragorn. He is her father and is understandably saddened to lose her from his side but he relents because it is the right thing to do. Thirdly, mortality is a gift, and immortality is also a gift. Just different. Eru chose these different fates because he wanted his children to fulfill different roles but he cared about their development equally, thus providing them struggles. Lastly, in terms of Sauron, the idea is that all evil all wrongdoing and all flaws eventually lead to good and perfection. Because everything comes from Eru or God. So Eru permits Sauron to exist in order not to infringe on his free will first and foremost and secondly because he fulfills a role within the spiritual development of Eru’s children. So death as in senseless killing isn’t a good thing, what is good is the effect death has the capacity of having on someone’s spiritual development! I hope I wrote this in a way that makes sense. Questions are always welcome and thank you very much for watching!!!

[@rythias975]

“It is a gift”

[@clydedoris5002]

This lore very much parallels catholicism makes it better imo

[@ArmandoEnfectana-bp6jo]

If this movie is death is a gift,why the hell they are still alive.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Humans are cattle, we're food for Eru, he just didnt want Sauron wiping out his food source

[@nightshadehelis9821]

What is dead my never die!

[@brianmead7556]

Eru can’t hate the Dwarves too much if he lets them have Death.

[@InkandFantasy]

They are his adopted children who will participate in the Second Music of Creation!!

[@B.swaggins]

Worded wrong! * honorable

[@welshman100]

Its not just a gift in middle earth.

[@professional_cynic98]

Death in itself is its own reward... I mean im happy to die but to die good isnt always in man destiny

[@AxeBearWhoCares]

Men dont become one with God in Catholicism. We're still individuals. What you described is similar to Nirvana. Unless I misunderstood what you said

[@roslolian11]

Maybe it's just me but saying "men become part of Eru" is just a nice way of saying Eru devours the souls of mankind when they die. Considering the Elves eventually all went to the Undying lands and spend their immortal days with Gandalf and the rest of the gods I mean that's not exactly punishment. Sauron and company all stay in Middle Earth and the Valar and Elves get thousands of years of RnR until the final battle. OMG the horror lmao. This honestly is a whole bunch of BS. It's like me robbing you all of your money and giving you the gift of poverty. Due to being poor af, now you need to work harder and grow quickly otherwise you will die of starvation. Aren't I magnanimous?

[@Spartiatai300]

But it is weird how the Númenóreans were gifted with long lives as a reward when you consider death to be a gift.

[@InkandFantasy]

I explain that explicitly in the video! Death is a spiritual gift because it is a challenge to be overcome. The Numenorians were given longer lifespans which granted them greater wealth and power but also became a greater challenge to be overcome, as they had more to lose!

[@Kackpuh]

Death was not a gift, only mortality. Maybe the everlasting death was a gift, in contrast to the reincarnation of the elves and dwarves.

[@TGREAT1]

In religion also

[@michaelstark8720]

Incredible stupid concept. Even Valar don't know Eru's plan for human soul? I would rather grip with all power to the world because I would atleast know this is me for better or worst. Not something what Eru plans against my wish. Better is to turn into Witch King who exist even after his death than becoming something you never were. Witch King changed but he still remained there on earth and was superpowerful figure for all time he existec in full force. After his stabbing he still didn't die just was powerless but he still was in the world, where HE wanted to be, not forced by God's whim to be something he isn't

[@Enoughdata]

I'm an atheist but if I lived in Middle Earth I don't think I would have a problem with the way Eru set it up. I would be curious as to why he wants men to become "a part of himself" as the video describes, but I would take comfort in the fact that objective morality does exist and Eru is actually good. I'd still want to live for a long time, like as long as Numenorian, but to live forever, especially in a stagnant world like Arda where technology doesn't really progress at all, would get boring really quickly. In contrast, if I had the choice I wish I could live for at least a thousand years in the real world, and choose to die at the age of 10,000-100,000.

[@michaelstark8720]

@@Enoughdata I'm not an atheist but i don't want to trade this world for something completly different. If God wants me, then he better give my life and my personality as it is forever than some completly different existance. If I was in middle earth i would be completly fine with immortality. Thing is about survival of my persona even if i'm last and i as spirit survive all the ages of the universe and see stars burn and universe is nothing but void full of black holes out if i'm still there as my own spiritual entity, i would be content

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Men are soul food for Eru

[@valleyscharping]

Death is an enemy and a mercy in LOTR as in Christianity. When He forbad them from eating of the tree of life, God gave Adam and Eve death not only as punishment for sin, but to prevent them from being stuck immortally in a fallen world.

[@mihaicolceriu-nicola7148]

very cute! u live in a fantasy even irl lol go learn science and see why god doesnt exist🧐🙄

[@markmuller7962]

The gift of coping 😅

[@yourjourney.]

but when it is a gift, why dont anybody just suicides?

[@user-bl7em8sx6o]

because all of them don't believe that, they fear death

[@ryanratchford2530]

Not buying it!

[@johnlindsay-ow1gz]

Replace the word elf with Hollywood actor. Much like an actor they live forever Cause I'm film they will never age. They will never die. They live on forever as long as the film exists. Oh wait you're describing an elf