Why did Fire Emblem Engage disappear so fast? Three Houses VS Engage

[@Ultimabuster92]

I didn't play Three Houses just 4 times (for each route) i actually played it 9 times. I played every route 2 times and for my 9th playthrough i finally did Maddening without NG+, which was a big thing for me, ok? I'm not an expert! What kept me going for so long? That's really easy. These incredibly lovable characters, it's kinda ebarassing to say how much these characters mean to me, but they do, what can i say? Engage fell so short on that front, that it felt like an insult to me. I mean, without my obvious bias, you have to say, that Engages characters are not terrible by any means, i mean, we've seen worse and equal quality character writing in the series, but TO ME and i don't say that as a fact, just want to make sure, Three Houses' characters are what i, as an aspiring author, want to accomplish with my characters someday. Characters that divide the audience, characters who are so authentic that people ACTUALLY see themselves in them, and not just surface level, characters who deal with problems, we in our lives have to deal with ourselves, characters who are flawed, who are hypocrites, who contradict themselves in a believable manner, so that people don't blame the writer, but the character because it feels so in character to them. And while i don't say that Three Houses did those things perfectly, i still say that it did a phenomenal job. You don't see character writing like that THAT often. And i think people felt that while playing the game. People LOVE these characters, i still see so incredibly much fanart to this day, it's incredible, if you consider that Three Hopes is already over a year old again...

[@destinyshand2049]

For me, it's the lack of new game plus and more dynamic weapon ranks. 3h you wanna be a mad lad and make Lysithia a great knight, you go here's a cheap axe and lance, heres some tips for riding a horse, go practice with the weapons. In Engage you wanna take Jean great knight, you tell him to wear a ring and he automatically can become good at axes without ever using one.

[@Paper_Sunset]

The writing is what kept the casuals into 3 houses more. The characters are 1000 times more interesting than engage (overall) and the story and lore is more entertaining and interesting than Engage’s.

[@goroadachi9489]

I don’t really think it’s the story to be honest. I just don’t find it that fun to replay. No new game+ really hurts this game. The skirmishes are dog water, and honestly, story aside, the DLC was horrendously implemented. They had it right in 3 Houses, I have no clue why they decided to screw it up.

[@MasterStacona]

The writing, story, characters, and lore for three houses all sucked. The gameplay was even worse with the school system. The replay-ability sucked, I barely got through one playthrough. The game was not balanced. It looked terrible and everything was brown. Most people could not get through a single playthrough of Three Houses because it was tedious and boring. Engage does have great lore, but it is very masked over by the 30th celebration aspect of the Emblems... imagine the game where all of the Emblem Paralogues were replaced with real paralogues that were self-contained to that world and help expand the world like with Anna and Jean... you will see the world building and lore a lot differently. For Engage, the characters are very lovable, the game has fantastic writing, and the story is wonderful! This also has the best gameplay the series has ever seen! Shadows of Valentia is also top tier, but it is a much different style to any other Fire Emblem game and Engage is more traditional Fire Emblem.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@MasterStacona Wow, that is some prime Engage glazing right there. Also to call Engage balanced is quite laughable.

[@feeamerie5011]

@@goroadachi9489 agreed I felt OP after about two chapters with a skirmish in between and the game was easy cw FE 3H where the dlc story missions got right tricky by the ending. Plus the four routes all felt different and two of the endings blew me away! Oh well, back to Redemption Reapers -the end is near…

[@Videodrome1991]

@@goroadachi9489 He's definitely not wrong about the gameplay, Engage is fun to play while 3H has you pulling teeth four times with White Clouds and the monastery.

[@MasakiAndoh]

Three Houses also has New Game+, being able to change costumes and not being locked to some ugly outfits and a much better writing. The tone itself is a lot more serious as well where Engage can be pretty goofy sometimes. That alone makes the game a lot more interesting. Hopefully the next FE game takes the best of both worlds and improves on what they did good.

[@EXchoco]

I fr just liked everything about 3H more. I liked the gameplay more. I liked the map design more despite how few of them there were, they felt more like realistic battlefields you had to utilize or account for than puzzles. I liked combat arts and gambits more than emblems and the break system. I liked the unit versatility and the emphasis on utility as your greatest strength, and giving you a strong hand in building a diverse team from scratch to account for any scenario-the “diamond in the rough” sort of concept where it forced you to feel like a teacher with a responsibility to make your students good while accounting for their strengths and weaknesses. I liked the music way more, one of the best videogame soundtracks I’ve ever heard accompanies the battles. I like the battles I was fighting more, I cared about the outcome and was invested in winning. And of course, I liked the characters i was fighting to protect and building up and using an astronomically high amount of times more. It was easier to get supports and easier to learn their stories, which I wanted to learn first and foremost. They have fantastic character designs that suit their personalities, subtly tell their stories and suit the world. They have amazing voice acting and all of their lines are voiced-there is an incredible amount of high quality voice acting in 3H. I don’t think I need to say much when comparing the stories, either. It’s weird but people act as though telling a story is somehow a trick to get people more interested when it’s…just a huge virtue and one half of rpgs that are what people who expect a full complete experience want. When it is afforded effort and a lot, a lot of passion, people notice and care, because people…like passion and effort. I think 3H is more what most people expect from a “strategy-rpg”. Grounded but fantastical. I found it to be the more quintessential experience.

[@techpriest6962]

More or less, FE3H was pretty close to what you could expect in strategy RPG. I could go on for awhile about ways to make it true to the goal of being a hybrid genre game. Not perfect, but much better than Engage in every way. Everyone knows 3H needed another year in development since it was rushed. Though despite that it was a memorable game. I would have much preferred an updated "My Castle" feature from Fates instead of the teleport everywhere and time consuming monastery. Also an archetype system instead of a class system is what it would need. Because why do we need two separate classes because one pegasus knight carries swords and tomes (dark flyer) or just a lance (pegasus knight). Better to let the player decide a units weapons, armor type, and if the unit gets a mount based on their weapon training rank. Though can get extra bonuses based on building a character toward a set archetype for people who prefer easily identifiable builds.

[@pandabanaan9208]

I have to be honest I can't disagree more, it was fine when I started but the more other fe games I play the more I grow to dislike three houses, it took me a year to finish one playthrough because I got burned out and even then the only reason I got through those final 7 chapters was by actively skipping through the final ingame months, the game just wastes so much time with the monastery wich is such a slog anytime I think of doing a new playthrough I remember oh right the monastery and lose all motivation, recruiting characters is way too easy meaning in my playthrough I had a ton of supports and the whole killing former students thing became a lot less meaningful when I only missed 4 recruitments, the maps were good enough for the most part but many just kinda devolved into one rounding a group of enemies and then moving on to the next wich weren't really worth the long monastery time spent to get there, funnily enough I think I like cindered shadows more then the main game because it cut out all the things that grind the pace to a halt, even the warriors spinoff has a similar problem were I haven't finished it because it carries over some of that three houses slog and I normally love warriors games, the characters are great and the story is the average fire emblem quality as in to say flawed but good enough, but jezus the monastery might actually be one of the worst mechanics in the series and it really harms my desire to finish another route

[@EXchoco]

@@pandabanaan9208Yeah the monastery hurt for some people who didn’t like the slower pace. Apparently that didn’t kill it for most people though and judging by this specific game in the series’s success it seems like it uplifted it a lot for casual players looking for a more experiential game with gameplay and story as one. I hope in the next game they take 3H’s success to heart and go back to its systems and polish them for the hardcore meta players

[@pandabanaan9208]

@@EXchoco really because I've heard many people complain about the monastery and lack of route originality, there's a reason one of the big things people liked about engage(and the couple people who cared about three hopes) was that they made the hub less dominating, ideally I would want something like path of radiance, it's technically not a hub but it fills all the functions of one while not negatively impacting the game and even having some non support extra convos wich flesh out characters, three houses was expirimental but I don't think it should be how the rest of the franchise will go, I think engage or conquest are probably better templates gameplay wise, story wise I would like something that tries to be a bit more experimental instead of another standard fantasy setting, for all its problems that is one thing fe heroes does pretty well from what I've seen, it literally took the agarthans but actually used the whole advanced tech theme instead of just making them generic cult wich hasn't been cool since the loptous cult

[@EXchoco]

@@pandabanaan9208 It’s certainly the biggest thing I’ve seen players left wanting on, but I mean that it’s probably not as detrimental to most as it seems to have been for you, judging by the game’s success. Even then outside of hardcore FE gameplay discussion circles, I’ve never really even seen it brought up. People just talk about ways to play the silly fun gameplay that the story heavily compliments and dissecting the silly cool story and characters that the gameplay heavily compliments. Still I hope that they improve upon it in the next game because it could be something actually great with more time and budget. Engage was stagnation if not regression in the monastery to me because of a lack of a functional purpose of the hub in the world, story and gameplay (and creating ludonarrative dissonance and plot holes in its wake) where it could have just been menus, feeling tacked on perhaps due to 3H’s success, lacking in any insightful and voiced conversation and dialogue that expands upon the world and characters and changes very frequently which is what initially endeared a lot of casual players to the monastery and characters in 3H and justified it to them, and with very inconsequential and…sort of odd mini games. So it sort of just ended up feeling like wasted dev time to me and ultimately still does take away from what didn’t need it and would just be totally all around better without it. Whereas 3H’s relationship with its monastery is more complicated in how it also can benefit players’ experience with the characters, world, and how they experience the gameplay within it

[@Everdistance]

A lot of fandom discussion is based on shipping or arguments about favorite characters. All the Engage characters are generally nice and only alear having paired endings cuts down on shipping talk a lot. Gameplay-wise I prefer Engage a lot and think it has more diversity in what you can do, but quality as a game is a really small part of what keeps conversations going. And honestly, I think it's fine for a game to just come out, sell decently, people play it and talk about it, and then move on.

[@MasterStacona]

it is also a single player game, only so much you can do before you are ready for a new game Engage is still selling and has not had its first christmas yet too and is over 2million units which is insanely good for a fire emblem game the series could not sell over a million units before awakening and is now consistently selling multi-millions Engage would make for the best anime series, hoping they turn the manga into an anime. World building and Lore be better if the paralogues were actually a part of the world instead of being emblem paralogues, but the price we pay for being a 30th anniversary game. DLC story to Engage is the overall direction for the next fire emblem game which seems like they are going to make it even more traditional than what Engage is.

[@Ultimabuster92]

As someone who played Three Houses 9 times... yes, Engages Gameplay is so much better, it's not even funny, i agree

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

ROMANCE. I know that’s not the only reason, but to me and many others it is a motivation when forming bonds in the game

[@Exlanadre]

I think youre 100% right. Its a small thing but it also sucks that paired endings aren't a thing for anyone but alear. It doesn't take much to throw in and adds content to see in future playthroughs

[@jesperwik998]

To me the big issue is that the ability to customize characters come so late in the game and is still very limited. at level 10 the build is done, you have your advanced class, go home. In 3h being level 30 when you master class makes the entire game interesting. And yes I feel about the same about most previous FE games.

[@zaneheaston8254]

From what I can tell, Engage relies too much on the Emblem Rings to fulfill unit niches & downplays on how each character plays differently from each other Combined with Engage taking a HUGE step backwards in terms of character writing & every unit seems to blend together

[@29go]

im still playing engage, i love, i also played three houses 31 times, i just like fe

[@jaden149]

i think one of the most important things in fire emblem is character attachment i think the reason engage is talk about way less is mainly do to the cast and story being uninteresting i am sure there are people who do like the story and characters for engage but i think most people would agree that engages characters are uninteresting well three houses is amazing and i am bias of course as three houses has my favorite cast of characters is the series but with three houses story in my opinion being when of the best FE plots and have great characters you can get attached to it just makes sense that three houses had more staying power

[@xenofes2]

I feel like Etie's personal skill is one of very few examples of the game trying to get you to reclass a unit into something else, so you can actually use it on enemy phase, and it's a situation where there are multiple options. You could make her pretty much any lance, sword, or axe user and she'll be able to use her personal skill fairly often, but if you want to have her more safely bleed health to be able to activate it, you could make her into a royal knight to use reforge, or turn her into any Qi Adept class (probably martial master) so that she can chain guard on one turn, and activate her skill on the next turn. Diamant's personal skill is really interesting to me, because people always complain about his low dex, even though his personal skill and a tendency to use swords means he tends to have a better hit rate than other units with better dex. Just something I think about from time to time.

[@WTCchan]

You make such a great point right at the end!! "Every playthrough ends up feelings the same." This is exactly why I've been fearful of playing through Engage again. I've played through Awakening more times than I can count, but no single two times have felt even remotely the same due (in no small part due to the child units, which I really love🥰)! But with Engage, even while playing it for the first time I remember thinking that what would even be the point of a second playthrough when I'm doing things in what seems like the one and only way to do them? Thank you for such an interesting video!!

[@IWish2500]

The story felt far more deep and captivating. With that, it also created a strong moral gray, a lot of debates about which path was best went on for a long time

[@techpriest6962]

Except Claude the Marry Sue character. He's was certainly not a good fit for 3H, as his personality and goals would fit better in Engage.

[@l.n.3372]

@@techpriest6962 I'm not a Claude fan at all but I wouldn't call him a Mary Sue tbh. Arguably Edelgard in CF is a bigger Mary Sue simply because that route falls into many of the Mary Sue pitfalls. Just a few for example: Edelgard is never called out by any character in the story when she does something bad. Everybody ignored her flaws and forgets she does bad things. The route itself pushes for Byleth to want to like Edelgard. Sacrificing complex story telling for ship fodder material to keep Edelgard waifu likable. The route ends as essentially a bad ending vs the other routes. Yet, because it's poor writing, Byleth still survived with no explanation despite losing their heart beat, even tho they couldn't survive before without that heart. Cuz again, waifu shipping fodder.

[@techpriest6962]

@@l.n.3372 Edelgards CF route was defined by "The Ends Justify the Means" which was why no one called her out. Taking her side was essentially agreeing with that premiss. Now, I will say that there should have been a conversation between Byleth and Edelgard about her time acting as the Flame Emperor. As it's essentially that part of the story is tossed aside the moment it loses its plot significance. None the less, we all saw her flaws and the end for her route is far from perfect. Sure Fodlan is united, but TWSITD wage a shadow war against her which brings unrest into the newly united continent while Almyra is a looming border threat. The war is over, but the future is uncertain. Which is essentially why she isn't a Marry Sue. Things do not go perfectly for her, and she is a morally grey character. A Marry sue is a unrealistically flawless or perfect character. This is why I picked on Claude, because his ending is literally everything goes perfectly because he's a genius schemer that can make everyone get along. He even does the whole power of friendship response when beating nemesis. Claude is the poster child for a Mary Sue. Dimitri = Grim Revenge Story. Edelgard = Ends Justify The Means. Claude = It Just Works.

[@techpriest6962]

@@l.n.3372 The other part I can agree with, but not for the same reason is the crest heart Mcguffin. There isn't really a good explanation as to why, once broken, his heart began to beat aside from seeming to be Sothis doing which doesn't make sense since he essentially is against her in the CF route and she doesn't mind. That said, that's more so an issue with their use of the Mcguffin. I think it would have been a great tragedy for the story if it did result in Byleths death as the final price of victory given how important Byleth was to Edelgard.

[@l.n.3372]

​@@techpriest6962 Idk if I agree with your explanation. The lack of criticism in CF isn't because they implicitly agree with Edelgard actions. It's because the route is poorly written and because Edelgard DOES get her way for almost everything. Which is why I call her a Mary Sue. She's never called out for her culpability in stuff. She knew Monica was replaced. She knew Flayn was captured by the Death Knight. She knew Kronya was there and told nobody. She worked with the people who killed Jeralt and made demonic beasts from kids. She's never called out by anyone. Hence Mary Sue route, as I explained. Think about it this way. In AM, Dimitri is the hero but he's a fallen hero for a while. He's called out fairly often and the others often disagree with his actions. This shows proper writing because it allows the player and the other characters to feel differently from Dimitri even when we like Dimitri overall. Edelgard doesn't have that. Everyone on CF becomes a shadow of themselves, basically becoming OOC at times to justify them not saying anything. Petra and Caspar become shallow as fuck and basically just say "let me defeat the enemy!" Even tho they have a lot of depth on SS route. Dorothea who hates war is ... Somehow fighting to conquer? That makes 0 sense. Ferdinand who has every reason to oppose Edelgard is somehow also not caring to clash with her. That stuff. It's bad writing and that's why I call CF the Mary Sue route. Also because of the waifu likability aspect where plots is sacrificed so Edelgard can remain a likable waifu to her stans. Claude is called out tho, which you seem to forget. Lorenz calls him out all the time, it's just never taken anywhere that far because Claude doesn't tell anyone his secrets except for Byleth. But it still exists. The player also doesn't have to like Claude inherently because Claude having or lacking likability doesn't matter like it does for waifu Edelgard. Hell, I DON'T like Claude after I finished VW. Which is great because it shows that the route didn't care much if Claude truly stayed likable or not. While for CF, it bends over backwards and sacrificed good story telling to keep Edelgard as a likable waifu so her stans would S rank her. Also you claim Claude is shown with no flaws. I disagree. I didn't like him much because of his clear and obvious flaws. He's selfish. He only cares about his own survival. He's willing to beg Edelgard to spare him in CF even tho it means handing her the alliance. But even in his own route too, he is selfish. He doesn't care about saving Dimitri in VW even tho Dimitri saved Claude in AM. Claude cares about discovering secrets yet never shared his own with anybody except for Byleth. This makes him a huge hypocrite. Claude also goes around acting like he's so clever and sneaky. But he's never shown DOING anything that's clever or sneaky. Everything he did is also done in SS or AM too. So Claude doesn't do anything unique. It seems like Claude is a schemer only in name but never in practice. Yuri and Hubert are better in this role than Claude was tbh.

[@paladinslash4721]

I think the rings hurt unit design. Because the rings are your units and your units are vessels for the rings.

[@Tom-vx7qh]

That along with universal reclassing makes barely any unit actually stand out from the crowd, turning most of them into piles of numbers, where you just pick the biggest piles.

[@bearerofbadnews1375]

Yep I got a lot of mileage out of a skill called Pair up from Corrin and that was super useful for the numerous battle backup enemies I would encounter.

[@_jerry]

engage dissapeared when FED stopped streaming

[@dkpanda491]

I don't think the games themselves are a big contributers but more what happened around them. 3H was advertised much more on top of being the first FE on switch, and I think it also is worth pointing out the engagement from the VAs in 3H knocking the promotion out of the park creating a lot of hype around what house people joined

[@hisen3.146]

I disagree. I didn't see much advertisement from the VA's until AFTER I played 3H. Unless you're following the VA's from another game, such as Robbie Daymond or Joe Zieja, then you weren't going to hear much from the VA's about the game in the first place. Though they definitely helped keep the game alive much longer and their involvement was kinda vital in keeping it alive, imo. The FTD and Seteth Says really kept enjoyment of the game up, even if the latter didn't last long.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

Three houses didn't have that much advertising to be honest.

[@IcedCoffeeGaming]

I think engage has enough nuance/difference for huge replay value. It is true anyone can use anything, but every unit leverages resources differently and even if you run 5 different units on Ike, there are still different Ike builds with pros/cons. For example: Kagetsu warrior Ike, goes for doubling, enemy phases with Handaxe/axe power, possibly tomahawk, 1-2 range axe unit, can double/1 round on Noatun/Silver/Steel axe or go for crits on Killer with crit engraving Merrin wolf knight Ike, enemy phases 1-2 range with daggers, but has the advantage of putting poison stacks on things she enemy phases, goes for crits off of engraving/wrath to kill, cannot be easily broken because few enemies break knives. Jade/Louis Ike, can use silver greataxe/lance to 1 shot foes, can enemy phase on Tomahawk and hit hard once (doesn't double), can AOE kill multiple foes with great aether using great weapons, and 1 shot a lot of things on player and enemy phase depending on the enemy. General cannot be broken, but has a weakness to mag/getting doubled. Timerra Sandstorm Ike, 1-2 range javelin enemy phase, 1 rounds most things on lance power 5, can be broken by axes, can also get bonus damage randomly similar to a Merrin Ike tank but is more durable than Merrin with higher DEF and has better access to damage via Lance Power vs Merrin getting Bravery damage bonus of +3-5 or STR+ bonus from Roy passive. Panette 100% Crit Ike, levrages half damage, Wrath, crit+10, and can 1 round at 1 range on EP and 1 range on Player Phase. This is also true of other emblems/units, and each lord unit has a unique class, half of which are very strong, the others are meh but still viable. Each one of these builds has pros/cons and does something the others can't, the result is largely the same in that Ike causes you to tank and enables enemy phasing. You could argue this is true of unique combat arts, as they are just tools that enable 1 rounding. So if we abstract your examples to what we are doing overall, 3H has more variety in the methods of 1 rounding via sub-menu abilities, but functionally these aren't that much different, while engage has more mechanics in play and more distinct class roles.

[@madmarvcr]

I have a chapter 9 Engage Save, when I want to replay. Because the first 9 chapters are just repetition. FE3H, the first 12 chapters are all the same, but you have great flexibility to change classes and use different characters. In Engage, it is very hard to change classes, because master seals are scarce in the early game. 3H has way more Battalions than Engage has Rings. If Engage had more Rings with Battalion like skills. Maybe a player could build these Battalion Rings in the Ring Chamber.

[@g.n.s.153]

To me it's also that Engage is a lot easier to break since so much of your power doesn't come from your units but rather the rings and the weapons you're using. The units are more or less just walking stats to use them. In 3H a lot more power comes from the unit themselves and even if your units do become really strong and with good game knowledge it's no where near the hardest game in the series I can't steamroll it like I could in Engage from my 2nd run onward.

[@clintwaki6936]

I feel like in Engage, the only classes that matter are Wyvern Knight, Sorcerer, and Warrior. The game would’ve benefitted from more balanced stat bases across the board and more limited reclassing options like Fates too give each unit more of an identity.

[@goroadachi9489]

Sorcerer? The hell?

[@eyyy2271]

@@goroadachi9489 they meant sage

[@g.n.s.153]

I don't get why people prefer Wyvern over Griffin. It felt so much better to me.

[@clintwaki6936]

@@g.n.s.153 It's random, but I find a lot of units get strength screwed in Griffin, whereas they become a ball of stats in Wyvern. There's plenty of reasons to prefer Griffin with staves and better weapon ranks; but in general, my most broken units were Wyverns.

[@tacoblm9570]

I would say Mage Knight is pretty up there in terms of usage too

[@cyndit9054]

I love 3 Houses. I love the characters and the story, but over the past few months, I have been attempting my third playthrough and it has honestly become painful to play. I am probably just trying to micro-manage way too much since it's my first time playing Maddening, but it is just not fun for me anymore. This sucks since I really really want to play CF and experience its story (my other playthroughs were AM, then VW), but I don't think I'm going to be able to force myself to get through it any time soon. This makes me, at least for right now, really prefer how simple Engage is. I have played a little bit of my second playthrough, also on Maddening, and I can actually spend most of the time playing the game, instead of stressing about how perfectly I have micro-managed everything. I really wish Engage had more staying power since I like it a lot. (Although, the real lesson might be for me to just give up on playing 3H's Maddening and play on Hard instead)

[@MasterStacona]

Engage's Maddening is the first time they put some thought into it and actually is fun with no cheap mechanics Though, I rather them return the turn limit for defeat than have endless reinforcements. Only time endless reinforcements makes sense is on a defend map where the win condition is survive for a certain amount of turns. Engage is the only single player game where i have over 500 hours into it, multiple playthroughs, and still playing new runs now. The early game being super fast helps Engage out a lot. This hurts Three Houses a lot and why so many quit the game before the half way point time jump.

[@vicentesanchezjr.3877]

​@@MasterStaconafr, I have so many 3H runs that are on hold somewhere in the first half haha

[@goroadachi9489]

@@MasterStacona Did you just say that Engage has no cheap mechanics? Seriously please take a step back and stop glazing Engage to kingdom come.

[@andrewly3764]

I think there is a fair reason why engage interest died and it is that there isn't much to talk about. What topic in engage could bring in people discussing or hype someone to re-enter the world of elyos again? I honestly don’t think there is any questions with any clues the writing team on engage left at least on purpose for lore and story theorists. The game has been finished for awhile before release so cut content or things regarding unused units are not as easy to find so the dataminers have nothing. The DLC release cycle happened rather quickly too, so the extension in interest the dlc brought to three houses isn’t there in engage. Not to mention how differently IS implemented the DLC so the point is moot. But I do think there is another reason why engage kinda ran it's course faster than three houses. Engage and Three Houses were made for different purposes. Three Houses was intended to be a new direction FE was going to take with a completely different game and story structure it was ment to big and last long. Engage was intended to be an anniversary title it was made as part nostalgia bait, part FEH advertising, and part introducing the new fans in three houses to something similar to the older games from these two stand points Engage running its course faster than Three Houses was natural it wasn't made to last

[@techpriest6962]

Problem is all the major gameplay mechanics in Engage are vastly different than older games. So the claim that Engage was suppose to be a throw back to older FE players ended up mostly being a lie due to the Break Mechanic and Rings dominating the game.

[@Yoshixandir]

To be honest once you beat engage there’s nothing left to talk about. There’s no new game+. The characters support and story is mediocre or bad. Heck rarely anyone talks about engage the other ones like fates is still memorable

[@techpriest6962]

@@Yoshixandir To be fair to Fates, despite it's awful plot: Its maps were varied, some of its hero characters and the outfits were well designed, it's my castle, capture, and child mechanics were well received, and it did not alter the core gameplay loop.

[@Yoshixandir]

@@techpriest6962true I like fates despite its negative reception from the fanbase. Plus fates did have a lot of talk outside the games with memes and not to mention being able to play from different perspective. I wish engage had that cause once I beat the game I don’t really have any motivation to do it again since it felt boring most of the time despite the fun gameplay

[@techpriest6962]

@@Yoshixandir The only reason I finished Engage was to give it a proper critique. I was fed up with the game 25% of the way through because of the awful dialogue, characters, and the Break Mechanic. I am beating the dead horse, but I honestly think the break mechanic should have been an Assassin class exclusive skill. Not a just anyone can disarm kind of skill.

[@Flopdoodle]

Look it's very simple: You can only talk about gameplay for so long. Writing on the other hand.. lore, characters, motivations, and overall narrative? If written well that will fuel discussions for YEARS. Engage has nothing worth discussing because they locked the writers in the basement and made them eat their fingers and feces for sustenance.

[@richardlee3679]

I think it was a number of things really. Admittedly, some of these are just opinions, but I've seen enough folks online share them that I'm gonna comment. 1. Engages characters and world are much flatter than 3H. Engage doesn't really DO world building beyond some vague references to border disputes, and the units that come from each region are so visually distinct that it's hard to get a handle on what people from that country are like. Likewise, most characters have a 'thing'. Celine drinks tea. Amber is a moron. Chef boy wants to eat literally everything. Once you meet them, that's it. There's no discussion, no hidden depths, they're just there, never mentioned after their intro chapter and used as vessels for the more popular emblems. 2. Engages visual design is controversial. I was able to coax people who were sceptical of 'anime games' into trying 3H. They loved it. I couldn't get those same people to touch Engage with a 10ft pole. 3. No new game plus. This is bizarre to be given that it's near impossible to invest in all kingdoms in a single run, but once you've played Engage, that's it. No fun post-game builds, no multiple routes, just pick a different difficulty and start all over again. There's no incentive to play again unless you just really loved Elyos. 4. The story is garbage, and I think this is the big one. Engages story is horribly told with campy dialogue, twists you can see a mile away and horribly cringy moments that just leave you wondering how anyone could have signed off on them. I've seen people say that Engages story is just satire and intentionally over the top or even that FE stories have never been good, but that's just not true. Story AND gameplay has long been essential to FE. It's a series that relies on both. If it didn't, it'd be XCOM, or chess. Engages gameplay is fire, but the story just gives you nothing to hold onto. It's the only FE game I've played where I started skipping dialogue before the end of my first run. What could I possibly say to others about the story other than that it sucks? That's not a talking point that fosters long term discussion.

[@Typical_Tyeus]

The problem with the cast of Engage is that they aren't characters; they're caricatures. They aren't fully fleshed out people. This combined with how malleable the units are makes people only remember their faves and nobody else.

[@brianwalsh1339]

Hopefully engage will give way to a Genealogy remake

[@johnvercellino]

I'm going to go unpopular opinion, but I prefer 3H gameplay over engage. I hated engage's level up experience I hated engage's class system, I hated how the missions would raise level with my highest people, so I had to bench so many characters. That was what kept me from finishing the game. The story wasn't good also doesn't help.

[@elijahhiggs4833]

if they had a support log over all files i would’ve at least played to finish that

[@666blaziken]

It's a shame it fell off, I just got the game and I'm hooked on the gameplay! Here's hoping people at least look at the gameplay fondly. I named my character "Skittles" to make the story more of an ironic joke

[@Yoshixandir]

Funny thing gameplay is one thing many of us agree was good on engage. The rest like characters, story felt mediocre or weak. It’s fine if you like it though. It feels like from within discussion that’s what many people had issues with engage and why it died off so fast

[@adammarkovic3316]

My problem with engage was i felt like the tools in engage were limited and boring in there uses. Not only that the late game classes felt so goddamn boring. Combined with the spamming of lord characters and i just lost interest altogether. I still come back to three houses due to the crazy amount of dumb things i can do to "break" the game or challenge myself in new ways. It reminds me of borderlands 2 in a strange way of having all these tools and options and things to combine you can really never have the exact same playthrough. Along with new game plus providing even more of said experimentation

[@adammarkovic3316]

Three houses also did not have a story and dialogue that felt like a kindergarten class had written it which I think made me see engage as bad comedy. One thing I will say though is graphically engage is major step up

[@Nu_Merick]

I'm still uploading three houses content. It's so much fun despite not having as good combat as engage. The characters are just too endearing and opens up to tons of discussions about the story and about who's perspective is your preference.

[@inari3217]

It boils down to the story and characters lets be real. Look at what people talk about 3h even after all these years, I barely remember any maps from 3h, I don't remember the monastery layout or the gameplay systems Characters and story is what keep people talking about it, that being said, I played more engage on its release month than ive played 3h since it was ever released A game being talked about and being "relevant" does not make it a better game

[@amadeux5471]

I find this take weird. How do you even define a game being a good talking point of discussion as opposed to a game that’s “relevant” as you said. You played Engage more than 3H. That’s cool. But just because you found one game more engaging (pun intended lol) than the other, doesn’t and shouldn’t equate the other one worse, or the former better. You just liked what Engage has to offer more than 3H. We all like different things and I for one am one of the FE ‘casuals’ who got their first stint on the franchise through 3H purely because of its narrative complexity. I think it’s the better game for that reason

[@inari3217]

​@@amadeux5471​im not implying that gameplay is all that matters when assessing the quality of a game im just saying just watch it on youtube if you're gonna make a tactics game where every map is a giant empty square with dirt textures

[@ssj4922]

​@@inari3217I agree, 3hs map were forgettable and the replayability wasn't as good as it could've been. That being said, Engages story, characters, world building hurt the games replay value and overall enjoyable for me so much that it has barely even touched the amount of hours I've put in 3H

[@goroadachi9489]

@@ssj4922Also no new game+ which honestly really hurts the game.

[@Videodrome1991]

This. What good is a TRPG if the only thing that keeps it relevant is the shipping on internet.

[@tylervonaegir]

I agree with u I think they tried to have the emblem take the place of the class customization

[@tabun76]

It is very simple engage fails to meet the main appeal of fire emblem which are obtaining characters and how long you use them. When you play of path of radiance , you remember titania being a bad ass which is telling in gameplay and story. When you play sacred stones , you know that betrayal scene during Ephraims first chapter and when you finish the route it is kinda sad. To me , Engage does not have those memorable characters and gameplay interaction. I won't remember a character like alfred because his time to shine in the story is meaningless and in terms of gameplay you barely get to use him because eventually he will be replaced. Tldr ; engage just shoves a butch of characters with no iconic moments so they just become stats bots.

[@btu1734]

Ik some people find the rings a hinderance. I think rings allow everyone to be anything in any given run and still be unique. I have 3 wyverns in my current maddening play through. All of them feel and play differently bc of their ring. And unlike Three Houses where it feels like there’s like 4 classes actually worth using and imo certain characters are so much more viable then others that unless you like them there’s no reason to ever use them, Engage doesn’t feel as centralized over very specific units and classes imo. Of course that isn’t to say that there aren’t certain classes and characters that are better than others, but everything feels balance and pretty much every class is at worst viable bc of all the unique things Emblem rings provide. All though I vastly prefer Engage’s Gameplay, I can understand why Three Houses has more staying power, especially when you consider story. Although I like Engage quite a bit more.

[@ssj4922]

Engages Gameplay is great, no doubt about that. But Three Houses was more than just another single player rpg simulator. It was a political thriller, a medieval fantasy opera, and a vast, dare I say _engaging_ landscape that extends to it's world building, and characters. It made you care about its casts, and their social, economic, and personal issues, which were all rooted into the very continent of the place you were playing in. It was more than simply 'Character A likes Tea, and Character B has a huge ego.' These were human beings who's motivations, preferences and struggles directly correlated into the very nature of Fodlen's sociopolitical structure which further corresponds to the plot of game where you go on to fight a war because of these problems. In comparison with Engage, you get characters dropping in dance like it's a Saturday morning cartoon, repetitive one note traits between supports convos that don't do anything other than waste time, and emotional beats that simply don't work, that makes it so that the game as a whole don't have much lasting legacy as something as 3H, which despite its flaws, managed to be thought provoking enough to make a long lasting impression on its playerbase to endure civil discussion to frivolous debates to this day

[@Videodrome1991]

The lore of 3H is just text flavor that actually means very little in the grand scheme of the plot. It took until Hopes to make some use of it, but that game too was a mess since the devs capped themselves because they didn't want to upset the fanbase by making Byleth obsolete.

[@MasterStacona]

The entire roster of three houses: ~ Almost everyone is forgettable ~ Claude is interesting ~ you got woe is me mage girl ~ you got depressed girl locked in her room ~ you for generic knight that tells you there is nothing to report and he ends up being the best character that is how bad the characters are The story is terrible, there is no plot, literally three houses has zero plot. Edelgard starts a war for the lulls. Dimitri goes mentally insane. Claude is the only one that felt like a person, but the rest of the cast is so forgettable and bland that he just stands out. Engage's characters feel like real people and the fact that you do not get that means you should get out more and experience what people are actually like. A good story is knowing the plot early on and knowing what the purpose of your journey is early on in the story which is granted by what the plot is. Three houses starts as a group of mercenaries where you are now the teacher at a school while explaining nothing or the purpose of you being there is. This scenario will never happen and is immediately unbelievable. Fictional story being believable, not realistic as this is a fantasy story so nothing will be realistic since fantasy is not a part of our reality. The final big bad villain of three houses was also never mentioned once through out the whole game aside from the intro cutscene which is very forgettable and then you fight him in a random swamp for some reason. Three houses has terrible world building... YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THE WORLD!!! Engage has fantastic world building and lore because I want to know more, especially more of the world which is why i am sad that the paralogues were anniversary emblem paralogues rather than proper world-related paralogues like with Anna and Jean.

[@hectorhernandezaleman3836]

​@@MasterStaconaWow, impressive, somehow, you managed to talk that much and get all of it wrong.

[@hectorhernandezaleman3836]

​​​​​​​​​​​@@MasterStacona"There is no plot" so, ok, Dimitri whole story of redemtion doesn't exist, all of discovering the truht about Foldlans past in VW doesn't exist, the twsitd plot doesn't exist, hell, even the Flame Emperor plot doesn't exist acording to you. "Everyone is forgetable, yeah, and somehow I remember everyone's full name and story even though my memory is very bad, while I couldn't remember the supports of half of engages cast even if I had a gun pointed to my head. I'll not adress the dumbing down of character archetypes you did there, cause is already a falacy of an argument and could be applied to everything. "Edelgard starts a war for the lols" never mind the nuances of why she decided to do that, the whole crest sistem, church regime and so on that she whised to take down. "Dimitri just goes insane" never mind again the nuances of why, his traumas, ptsd, survivors guilt and wish for revenge. "Claude is only one that feels like a person" you mean, the only one wihhout severe traumas, I'll give you that, but while he's ok and very funny, he feels bland and out of place compared with the shared plot and past of the other two. "Engage characters feel like real people and the fact you don't get that means you should get out more" the fact that you believe the people you know to be as bland and onedimensional as Engages characters is already telling enough, and while yes, is reasonable to say most real people don't experience the kind of severe trauma the 3h cast does, it doesn't detract from their personality, it rather fleshes it, unlike engages characters that for the most part are just there. "The begining doesn't make sense and it's not beliavable" the fact you don't know why Rhea wants to keep Byleth and Jeralt close, thus giving them their positions, shows you either didn't play, or weren't paying attention, but that's the ulterior motive behind, there is another, they pick Byleth as a tracher because the original one ran away when Kostas bandits attacked, so there was a vacancy and Byleth showed great skill in singlehandedly saving the students. Credit where is due, I agree that Nemesis is a bad final villain, precisely because he comes out of nowhere, then again, there are more routes than VW, with better final bosses. That swamp is the same historic battlefield Nemesis was defeated eons ago. I get now that you didn't play all routes, which is needed to get all the pieces together, it's the only explanation for your outstanding lack of knowledge here. "A good story is knowing things early on" debatable, acording to that definition every story has to be direct and straight, so any kind of twist or revelation makes a story bad acording to you? It really depends of what kind of story you are telling, Engage really doesn't need anything more than the go defeat the big bad guy trope, which is a valid path as a story, like the one of the Zelda games and other franchises, but other stories build up to a conflict and then present the objective and resolution, and that is equally valid, that you prefer the first doesn't make the second bad. "Terrible world building. You never get to see the worl" Despite the fact that worldbuilding is much, much more than just seeing the places, it's the lore, information and history surrounfing it, which 3h has a lot of in the form of texts and dialogue, you are wrong either since you get to see: Firdhiad, Embar, Deirdrur, Mirdin great Bridge, Gronder fields, the Tiltean plains, Fort Merceus, The Silver Maiden, the monastery, the abyss and so on, all places with unic desings and history behind. About Engages worldbuilding, well, you said youself, you were left wanting to know more, because that information just isn't there.

[@MasterStacona]

@@hectorhernandezaleman3836 You have one giant wall of text. If Engage did not have world building and lore then you would not want more of it. Wanting more is a sign that it has fantastic world building. Three houses has zero world building and zero lore and had no desire to know more because there was nothing to latch on to in the first place. In what world will a continent ever centre itself around a school? And apparently there is only one school shared among 3 countries? Awakening and Engage has the same plot of stop the fell dragon, but Engage is a much better story as Sombron has a real reason to why he did for what he did, Awakening the fell dragon just wanted to destroy everything (the story was not the strong point for Awakening, the waifus and customization are). Three houses you are told to go teach at a school, just randomly and out of no where, no reason to be there whatsoever. The main antagonist was not mentioned in the story ever and then you fight him in a random swamp at the end and he just wanted to become powerful and destroy everything for no reason - evil for the sake of being evil. Sombron cared about reuniting with his friend and wanted to do it on his own to showcase how far he has come without help. Not realizing he had people there the whole time and that his friend left when the friend knew Sombron would be okay and had people to look out for him and care about him, but he never saw that and chose to live in isolation and do things by himself and to be alone because he blinded himself with trying to reconnect with that one friend. Engage has is a deep story with a deep message behind it.

[@thegreatmaximilian]

Gameplay is fine, but the story, characters, music and lore are just awful. I am really disappointed, because Fire Emblem can tell amazing stories with awesome charakters, just look at Holy War or Three Houses. Engage left a bitter taste in my mouth and I really hope this games design is an exception and not the new norm.

[@kileyjohnthemedic402]

I liked pretty much everything about 3 houses minus the majority of the story. So while I know it shouldn't be our job to come up with the story we want, that’s exactly what I did, with my own dialogue for the characters as well (pretending to be the characters). I think if I didn’t do that I would have gotten bored with the game and its one of my favorite casts of characters so I'd be sad to not want to play it anymore. It also gave me a reason to enjoy the monastery. Would I have preferred to explore places in the Kingdom, Alliance, and Empire if not more? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTLEY! But I was able to make do and I know it takes a lot of creativity to be able to do that but if you guys have it in you, I definitely suggest you give it a try. I also try to do it with Engage but the characters, as much as I love them, aren’t that easy to come up with story plots for.

[@kileyjohnthemedic402]

I won't go into depth about the storylines but like with Lorenz, I have it be that during the timeskip he found out about...'what happened to the late Duke Riegan (Claude’s uncle) and the merchants with him' and because of that he had a pretty rough time and is now on the run from the one who did it. After about a year or two of being on his own, he comes across Ignatz and they stick together. Ignatz was told by 'someone' that Raph and Maya had been killed so he was obviously devastated but they were able to keep each other's spirits up. And of course they finally find out that Raph and Maya are both fine along with the others. I can go on about the others if you want but I don't want to bore anyone. And yes, I do fanfictions if you guys were wondering 😅.

[@kileyjohnthemedic402]

One of my BIGGEST problems with Hopes is that they changed pretty much everything about what had happened to the late Duke Riegan and even that it was his grandfather and not his uncle, while it was never outwardly said, it was HEAVILY implied that the one who did it was a 'monster' as in coward and not a literal beast. And the others involved did NOT show any sign of them forgiving him at all in 3 houses. But in Hopes? 'Oh it was a literal monster as in beast and we know it wasn't his doing and he even punished most of the ones responsible' and the character seems to be a decent person. I was SOOOO looking forward to a different kind of A+ support between the characters involved in 3 houses but never got it so when we finally got a whole freaking paralogue about it, you better believe I was STOKED. But...pretty much nothing like I wanted in terms of the conversation about it 😒.

[@hyperm8]

Something most people will probably disagree with but I found Engage to be much much more repetitive than Three Houses. Not just in terms of the Somniel, which is bad, but also just replaying the game in general. Everything just became tedious. Having to do every Emblem paralogue, unlocking all the DLC rings and of course the Fell Xenologue. This combined with the lack of character uniqueness left me very unmotivated to continue my reruns. Three Houses at least offered a story that I enjoyed along with a very pleasant cast for every rerun, while Engage offers me none of that.

[@rickyrivera3623]

That’s fair I honestly love replaying engage trying different characters with different classes and promotion timing abusing and using the emblems better which allows for most creative gameplay and watching vids of people come with crazy builds especially after the well update

[@boop733]

do you actually like the gameplay of 3h?

[@Videodrome1991]

Two words: White Clouds.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@Videodrome1991 Even white clouds is less repetitive than Engage. Engage is the same characters and story every time, Three Houses at least gives you different characters every single time through white clouds. And a unique second half each time throughout.

[@Videodrome1991]

@@goroadachi9489 White Clouds isn’t a slog? Lmao now I know I can’t take you seriously. Engage will always be better than 3H because it cuts to the chase and doesn’t bullshit by making you wait until 40% of the game behind a tedious story as White Clouds. You can hide behind “characters” as if it excuse 3H’s poor gameplay and pacing, but it really doesn’t. You want good characters read a freaking book.

[@TheTyranex]

I believe engages gameplay overall feels more rewarding but there are two things that 3 houses have: a more interesting build system. The regress of 3 houses holds to longevity vlbetter and can make the game last longer. Engages build system feels like one that has its cake but tries to eat it too; the inheritance system is imo just shallower to the one in 3 houses mainly due to the weapon limitations. The second is multiple routes will always occur longer lifespans.

[@espada9000]

I guess Fire Emblem Engage wasn't as engaging as people thought it would be. So Three Houses lasted longer and therefore have a bigger success. Also Engage title name sounds lame compare towards Three Houses which is basically Three Kingdoms of Dynasty Warriors with Wu, Wei, and Shu. That's what Three House factions reminds me of. Also let's not forget that KoeiTecmo is involved with this game so of course Fire Embelm Warriors Three Hopes (Prequel) was made afterwards. Engage is basically a ring you wear with a spiritual character you have bond with to gain powers from them.

[@hectorhernandezaleman3836]

Three Hopes is an alternate story, more than a prequel.

[@espada9000]

@@hectorhernandezaleman3836 Yeah I get that but it is a prequel first and foremost.

[@6gredlite907]

Only thing I don't like about engage is the super reliance on rings. You learned majority of your skills from each ring character. I've been playing fire emblem since awakening and I got so used to building characters through classes.

[@SB-dy4zh]

The personal skill complaints is kinda funny when things like catnap exist in 3 houses...

[@goroadachi9489]

Cat nap does have its uses sometimes. And honestly when it activates it can only help. But when, and I mean when, will you ever see use out of Etie’s personal skill?

[@lkjjjjhn]

Comenting for the algorithm o7 love the content

[@mrp1234]

what's the background music at the beginning of this?

[@godssword6501]

Thing is engage had the perfect story setup to tell a great enriching journey. But it obviously not a priority.

[@dinodude4039]

To be honest, 3H seems damn near unsurpassable when it comes to popularity in the fanbase. I always knew that Engage wouldn’t get as much traction, but I enjoy the game for what it is nonetheless.

[@voytazino]

What's the music in the middle? It's Octopath?

[@Videodrome1991]

3H put more focus on being a medieval anime high school simulator whereas Engage put its cards on the TRPG gameplay. Guess which of the two is going to get you traction on twitter, reddit, FE forums, etc.

[@pepeelghetto1231]

Let's not pretend 3 Houses doesn't let you to have a unit with like 10 movement that you can stride then warp/rescue and destroy the entire enemy army with wrath vantage lmao. It is a ton of stupid fun on Its own right.

[@deklou-l471]

For me, the biggest disadvantage engage had is the cruel lack of marketing to the west.

[@Helloim_anthony]

Couldn’t even finish engage LOL. What a waste of $60.

[@DuMaMayDewLay]

3 houses was the only game on fire emblem history, to be created by a hack n slash engine. Your opinion is worse than a dogs

[@Helloim_anthony]

@@DuMaMayDewLay I share the same opinion as the majority lol. Everyone stopped playing this game after a week

[@DuMaMayDewLay]

@@Helloim_anthony bet you can't even name 15 throuses cast off dome. Nor path of radiance characters. You play mine craft aside from 3 houses. Your opinion is literally trash

[@mutemath2334]

100% dot on analysis here. There are functionally 12 characters in the base game, and they each play basically the same on every play through.

[@ericd1022]

I would’ve liked 3H way more if there was no monastery. I liked the gameplay well enough but after every battle is a slog through crap you’re encouraged to get through for optimization. It just disrespects your time. Everytime I want to go back and play 3H I’m reminded of the boringness of monastery and say no thanks. I think there’s a lot more content in 3H and customization which gave it more staying power. Compared to engage’s 1 same route every time. Also they shot themselves in the foot dumping all the DLC within the first month

[@Fenriswolfer77]

For me it was the story and characters. Three Houses had a great story and a big cast and even with it's weaknesses, I found all routes to be enjoyable. Engages Story started mediocre and got worse, the further I went and the DLC Story was even worse. It's like Fates: Good Ideas, awful writing. And honestly, I kinda prefer 3 Houses Gameplaywise too. I'd rather seen them building on it's foundation and work on the map design. Engage had really cool maps, but I did not enjoy many of it's Gameplay Mechanics. Talking about 3H Story and how to improve it's gameplay is something I find interesting, Engage doesn't really have anything interesting to talk about.

[@drepie7537]

One might say the game was less engaging

[@darkmentalmaster]

3H has better characters/story/lore, but Engage has miles better gameplay and replayability.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

Gameplay yes. Replayability no

[@Yoshixandir]

I disagree on replayability. There’s no motivation to go back for this game once you beat it. The characthers are boring the support are not that interesting and the story is generic and bland. It does have one of the best gameplay in the series but if the next fire emblem game has the same gameplay but a better story there’s no reason to play this game.

[@davidhill8565]

Fire Emblem Engage’s DLC run ended too soon. It only ran for three months. It should get the Mario Kart 8 treatment: Booster Emblem Pass.

[@Yoshixandir]

The problem is it wasn’t interesting enough to keep playing not to mention the game dlc wasn’t that well received

[@BennyBurrito]

I enjoyed Engage on my playthrough, but when I went back to do the DLC, I did not enjoy it. The writing for characters and plot in Engage are pretty bad, and the DLC chapter might be the worst I've seen for a game in a long time. Also, props on the OT music 😊

[@ironbaysqiureg4827]

Of course when the only thing you have going for you is muh Gameplay. Not even all of it either You're just left with forgettable trash. Three houses might have some huge flaws in areas but my god doesn't still shine with flying colors When Compared to the equivalent of san francisco streets

[@ShursGarden]

The game that tells a single story being talked about less than the game that has 4 separate stories? Who could have seen *that* coming?

[@justaguy2182]

The only thing Engage really had over 3 Houses is gameplay. The engage/emblem system is great, but other than that 3 Houses just does everything better. The poor execution of the DLC story is what really sealed Engage’s fate imo. It had no excuse to be so poorly done when Cindered Shadows was right there to look to for inspiration.

[@vicentesanchezjr.3877]

3H maps are pretty dull. So many repeated maps my goodness!

[@Videodrome1991]

Who the hell ever played FE for the story? That’s like playing Doom for the plot.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@Videodrome1991 People that liked Awakening, and Three Houses, so you know, the vast majority of fans. Remember, the franchise was dying until they made the switch to more story driven content. You can whine all you want, but the style you crave for just isn’t popular, and a good story is. Retro Fire Emblem style just isn’t popular.

[@Videodrome1991]

@@goroadachi9489 The series was dying because IS and Nintendo kept the dropping series on its head because of terrible advertising and because TRPGs are a very niche genre of games. Awakening and 3H sold not because they made an emphasis on the quality of their gameplay like Fates or Engage, or good stories like Jugdral or Tellius, they did because anime friend simulators make a looooooot of money. As for the sales of FE, who gives a shit? Heroes made so much money, that IS can afford to take a hit.

[@goroadachi9489]

@@Videodrome1991 Nintendo and IS cares because they are a business. Businesses make money. They don’t make money by catering to the minority customers. Most people who play games like a good story, and good characters. So they focused on that, and that’s where their success comes from. If they don’t want to have a story, they don’t have to make one, just make a regular strategy game that no one will buy.

[@KamiDesu7]

Ooooh .octopath traveler ost

[@andersonweir11]

Not just new game plus.characters better design.memorable,skills so on.only thing harvest moon play.with crops so on.cant use all three lords. There blyeth,eldegard,dimintri,claude,hilda, Lytheisea,felix,dorothea,syvilain shamir.favs then add in ashen wolves.mercedes,marianne.then hate alear worship

[@NarrowSpark96]

I mean, it's quite obvious to me as Engage is a very rigid game compared to 3 Houses. Lower mov, break, and no durability means far less options for each unit. And as you said, the only true customization option is the emblem rings. Personal and Class skills are situational at best and anyone can be almost any class with the only differentiation being stats. And the gameplay is all that Engage has going for it. Meanwhile, almost all of 3 House's customization options at least feel significant. And it also has the story and characters to back it up. Even if the gameplay isn't the best, it's not so bad that you can't get a few playthroughs in.

[@MasterStacona]

In order for a game to have a story, it needs a plot, three houses has no plot. The writing is long-winded, uninteresting, and very boring and dull. Characters all suck except for Claude and Sothis, but Sothis is because her voice actress is the same as Edea Lee from Bravely Default/Second and nothing on her own merit. The "story" for three houses: ~ evil man that is evil is evil because he is evil so he becomes resurrected to be evil and powerful because..... ~ evil man was in an introduction cutscene that is very forgettable and never mentioned whatsoever the whole time until you fight him in a random swamp at the end ~ Edelgard starts a war for the lulls ~ the entire continent is centred around this school [lore?] ~ you can never see and explore the continent you are on [world building?] For your "interesting and deep" characters: ~ you got woe is me mage girl which says nothing about her character ~ you got depressed girl that locks herself away in her dorm room which says nothing about her character ~ you got a nameless, generic knight that tells you that there is nothing to report and just goes to show how bad the writing and characters are in three houses because the generic knight ends up being the best character in that entire game outside of Claude and Sothis because of her voice actress is shared with Edea Lee or bare footed dragon (depends what you are into) And the main gameplay hook to three houses is going to school! Not being the commander of an army to be victorious in the war you are fighting which is what fire emblem is supposed to be about... Awakening for waifu simulator Path of Radiance / Radiant Dawn for actual world build Shadows of Valentia for lore and a more RPG feeling Fire Emblem

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

​@@MasterStaconaalso edelgard started a war for The lulz? Hahahahahaha 😂😂😂😂 all your takes are so bad and nonsnesical. How îs The story of engage better? 😂

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

​@@MasterStaconaalso three houses has every side character that tells much about their characters, bernadetta as well, more than 98% of engage characters that say nothing about themselves

[@MasterStacona]

@@mihaimercenarul7467 every three houses character said nothing about their personality... bernadetta was just an emo, depressed girl that goes life is so unfair which is nothing about her personality yunaka only talks about her past, kagetsu only talks about his homeland, those are the worst supports in engage and those two are most like three houses supports all of the other characters actually showcases their personality and what they are like as a person Alear is just a blank slate that says what you are thinking. Engage characters are very well written and are believable characters because they are written like how people actually are.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

@@MasterStacona emo? I don't think you know what emo îs. Also lol no. Every character has at least one or two supports where they talk about their past, motivation and future. They have plenty of supports where they don't only talk about their traits, but different subjects such as their house, diplomacy, tragedies, future, convictions, flaws, trauma and many more. You lost your argument after you provided no evidence and called bernadetta emo. Lmao. Many characters like Felix, sylvain, lysithea, dorothea and lorenz seem rude and mean at first, but their development, sad past and personality are great and diverse. You jlare just triggered and act like everyone îs blând without giving examples, or you ignore their characters.

[@pacmanpowerghost]

FE3H > Engage

[@kalcite2744]

Engage does not seem to be designed around replayablity, and the lore is obejectively a failure. So the result is expected, dare I say, both for the IS and for players.

[@crowquet56]

Engage was just way too easy for me :( I wanna give it another go but it kinda just felt like I was button mashing because there was no strategy involved most of the time

[@Avghistorian77]

Same can be said for Three Houses though.

[@DuMaMayDewLay]

I beat three houses with 1 hand.

[@ubercow6611]

While Engage is has amazing gameplay, I feel like that's kind of all it has going for it. Three Houses had at least good gameplay, but it backed that up with so much more than Engage, more than making up for having not as good gameplay

[@Avghistorian77]

Definitely was disappointed with Engage. I really did not enjoy playing through my other two playthroughs of three houses after my first and hoped Engage would help with that. It didn’t.

[@yukithesnowman314]

Engage is a fun game but sadly the story and most of the characters were trash.

[@thegamewoods8473]

I hardly find the reception surprising. Heck, the devs outright said this was the plan. 3H was designed for people to circular debate and the devs blatantly said they didn't expect people to play more than one route. The contsant 3H discourse is based completely in biases, different perspectives, and a significant amount of ignorance. It was a story purposely left vague and at times unfinished to foster that discussion. Contrast that to Engage, which is a pretty straightforward adventure that answers all of its major questions and ties up its story in a nice, neat bow. Paradoxically, the game with the actual finished and satisfying conclusion isnt discussed because theres little to argue. Ain't that a weird quirk of humanity? That an unfinished story lasts longer than a complete one? But Engage and 3H were purposely designed to be complete opposites by the devs, so its no shock that theres such a strong divide it their respective fan bases. Though i will say that the majority of complaints towards Engage really just feel like "3H did X" because you can slap those critique onto the entire franchise if you wanted to.

[@jeremykountz644]

I would say I have a much more negative view of Engage than a lot of other people. I really just hate the game very much and it's a miracle and mistake that I spent about 80 hours trying to like it. Everyone knows the writing issues with the game, but even after just skipping cutscenes and dialog it was still painful to just play the game. I agree with pretty much everything in this video and think these points are a part of why I found the game lacking in it's gameplay. I honestly wish I never played it not only because I think it's dogwater game, but it really killed my interest in the FE series as a whole. I was going to give the 3ds games a chance before Engage, but I lost motivation for that after Engage. I don't think I would completely say I will never buy a new FE game after Engage as I don't know what those games would look like. I will just say it's unlikely I would specially if other games I am more interested in come out during it's release window.

[@javeman]

Three Houses is a good game but I honestly couldn't finish it. I played Edelgard route and then I started Claude route and gave up shortly after the time skip because I felt so exhausted. I couldn't bring myself to pick up the game again and to this day it's the only FE game (from FE4 onwards) that I haven't played all routes. It's why I prefer Engage over 3H. After 3H, Engage felt like a breath of fresh air. Yes, the story is silly and cartoony but the overall mood of the game and characters made the whole experience very enjoyable. Also, I don't think the actual plot of Engage is bad, it's more like the dialogue and execution. As in, you could novelize Engage and actually fix most of its writing issues while keeping the plot structure intact, since most of its problems involve execution. Case in point: Marni could have been a great Camus-esque character if we would have gotten some better scenes with her that showcased her having doubts about being with the Hounds, but instead we have her whole backstory dropped in a 30-second speech, and then she dies in the next cutscene. All in all, while I acknowledge Engage is a very flawed game, I really enjoyed playing through it and will likely play it several times, like I do most FE games, and I very much appreciate that the game exists.

[@elise6894]

Engage is better than threehouse the problem is that fans wanted a social sim like three houses engage is a really fun fe game not hours and doing nothing

[@rances4418]

I think fans wanted likeable characters. Characters in engage lack gameplay identity of older games. Due to the ring mechanic and lack the charisma and just overall writing quality of three houses cast. I think engage is fun game just not memorable. Like even in art department despite three houses looking worse graphically. Engage art style just screams deviant art. Like I thought make Byleth was little fugly till I saw male aliear 🤢

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

Gameplay only does so much for a game. Would people care about Final Fantasy 7 if Tifa and cloud were underdeveloped like most of Engage's cast?

[@l.n.3372]

I agree that 3H is the game people prefer but I'm confused as to your arguments. Most of the time, 3H boils down to flier/wyvern emblem with some magic units, a few snipers, and maybe a war master. That's it. Units only feel unique because they're well written. But NOT because they offer much unique in gameplay when 80% of characters pick the same classes. This is a huge flaw of 3H overall. Don't get me wrong, some characters are better in gameplay than others, yes. But when any character can be wyvern and bust, 3H devolved into same class syndrome fairly easily. And that's bad for gameplay and unit individuality too.

[@EXchoco]

I hugely reject the wyvern lord craze the meta tries to say is the “right” way to play the game for two reasons: It is infinitely harder to train units into boxes they are bad at instead of playing to their strengths. It will waste more time in tutoring and ask you to do unnecessary micromanagement because it isn’t how the game expects you to play it, even if they left it available to be done if you want to force yourself to grind for challenge runs. It also leaves a difficult early-mid game where units that might otherwise be going somewhere in their strengths are struggling in a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none middle. Two. Just because a unit can eventually become heavy-hitting, does not mean it makes the maps easier. If you don’t have enough broad utility in all your units, you won’t be able to account for the sticky scenarios the game will put you in, because there are only teams upon teams of wyverns with the same weapons, the same skills, and the same defensive and offensive capabilities. I firmly believe the make everyone wyvern lord strategy just makes the game more risky and difficult.

[@l.n.3372]

@@EXchoco First, nobody says you have to play any one way. It's a single player game lol. Do what you want. Second, nobody is gonna say to make Lysithea a wyvern. She's a warp bot. Nobody says every magic unit needs to be a wyvern. Third, wyvern or flier emblem mainly applies to physical units anyway. And usually those who want movement, strength and speed.

[@EXchoco]

@@l.n.3372 I know you aren’t putting Lysithea in wyvern lord. But just because you aren’t putting Lysithea into wyvern, doesn’t mean Dimitri doesn’t have an axe bane, Dedue doesn’t have a flying bane, Sylvain doesn’t have a riding boon that makes it faster to achieve paladin or Ashe doesn’t learn deadeye at C bow-doesn’t mean physical units aren’t all different too and can achieve different skills in different classes, and sooner, to support one another. Strategy based on a team’s synergy>individual units being strong, because it makes unexpected scenarios possible to deal with. All of my original points still stand. No one forces me to play the game any way because I think that way makes it more difficult and is a bad strategy. The problem is people will say that way is the “broken”, “easiest” way to play and that it makes the game bad when the game actively discourages you from doing it, and then turn around and say the maps are unbalanced and unfair, and the monastery takes too long, when it was their decision to make an unbalanced team that takes too much maintenance and wastes too much time for what it’s worth.

[@pepeelghetto1231]

You are acting as if the whole playerbase cares about the meta lol. There's still people who think Mortal savant Felix is good, so no, people won't just use "Wyvern, Sniper, Gremory, Grappler", They do use the other lame classes. The only people who only use the optimal classes are the minority that watches these vids on youtube. Hell, even I beat madenning with hardly any difficulty whatsoever without using meta strats, freaking great knight is my fav class; so yes, meta players doing what you say are a tiny minority. Something else, these jrpg games, they don't attract people only bc of the strategy and optimal decision making, in fact, FE now attracts people more for the anime designs and fun characters, than for the tactical gameplay itself.

[@MP-tw4fc]

The rings are boring which makes the late chapters not fun to play. I like engage’s early to mid game. Too many negatives overall with very little positives.

[@godssword6501]

To be honest imo three houses doesnt hold a candle to base game engage difficulty and replayability. Because anyone can be in any class challenge and emblems rings combinations are really unique to this game. Strictly from a gameplay perspective engage is simply superior. But the story is so lackluster is why i think casuals just dropped it. The only oh shit moments is ike paralogue and chapter 20 cutscenes

[@zaneheaston8254]

I admit, in 3 Houses, the gap in difficulty between Hard & Maddening mode is astronomically huge I compare 3 Houses difficulty balance to that of Halo 2, Heroic mode difficulty isn’t that bad, but Legendary mode *gets one-shot by Sniper Jackal

[@americanbadger6986]

Becuase engage sucks and 3H is epic

[@auraguard0212]

We must accept that 3H (a godawful FE game with writing that drew people in) is enjoyable for a larger portion of people than regular FE games. It sucks.

[@Tepes1980]

It's because Engage is a turd! The only good thing it has is the gameplay, but that alone isn't enough, in particular when the rest isn't just mediocre, it's actually aggressively bad.

[@khi92]

The story feels overhated it's serviceable not the worst most fire emblem games have.basic or mediocre the only good stories are tellius and genealogy the bad ones are really bad like fates or cf while cf has symbolism the story is kinda bad and then there three houses worst flaw white clouds which has barley any changes to routes which makes it feel like a slog its just repetitive while engage doesn't hold your hand nearly as much

[@DuMaMayDewLay]

Its because the crew in america hated engage. They purposely made engage characters sound goofy. They didnt want to be apart of it. Which sucks becuase you can tell how much japan loves engage. All the characters in engage are also voiced by anime voice acting legends. Diamant is SUKUNA ffs. We all know engage is the funnest FE game when first introduced. All these engage haters are sad they cant write a 20 page essay on why sylvain isnt a womanizer. Its cool though, gameplay really speaks for itself. Even another decade from now youll realize what a treat engage was

[@MasterStacona]

Three houses has mostly waste your time content, so if that is "staying connected" for longer then sure. Engage has no fluff to it and just gets right into things, so it wastes the least amount of time and is the most fun. Since something does not waste your time you won't be dragged down and held to it longer than you wanted and the gameplay being so good makes people want to play the game over and over again which means they are not watching it on videos and livestreams (Fire Emblem is better for youtube than livestreaming). I remember no units in Three Houses, they all blur together and blend together. Characters in Engage every character is unique and stands out for their design and personality. Character uniqueness is lackluster in Engage for gameplay differences, but it does allow to make a lot more customization for armies on repeat playthroughs with experimenting with class combinations. They should make the characters more unique to each other other than their growths for the next Fire Emblem. And Three Houses was such a drag to get through that people would rather watch someone else play the game for them which resulted in a "more of a youtube presence and such" than play the game themselves, most people never completed a single playthrough or even got to the half way point time skip in Three Houses the game was so bad and turned them away from getting the next Fire Emblem. Three Houses really damaged the series and Awakening saved it.

[@hyperm8]

Then how come Three Houses sold basically double as much as Awakening, spawned a spinoff game specifically for the huge Three Houses fandom and remained relevant for years? People watched Three Houses content because that's what interested them at the time. They wanted to see other people's reaction to the game. "Most people never completed a single playthrough or even got to half way point time skip" I have no idea which universe you live in where that happened. Just because you hate it, doesn't mean others didn't love it. And boy did a ton of people adore the game. "Three Houses damaged the series" that's the dumbest statement I've ever seen on this community.

[@g.n.s.153]

Idk why I see so much vitriol for 1 game when someone likes the other one. It's just a cycle of "the other side didn't like my game I'll say I didn't like their game" and it never ends. Personally I find the Somniel to be a much worse hub than the Monastery. So much is up to RNG (the dogs, the bond rings, the cooking and who cooks it) and just about everything could have been a menu instead of places I need to go physically. The monastery take a bit more time but gives me a lot more control on where I put my resources in and it did a ton for characterization while the Somniel is as shallow as My Castle from Fates but with added tedium. I don't really get how characters/units are more memorable in Engage? That's a very subjective thing I know but at least unit-wise I remember a lot more things about 3H's cast than Engage's. Unit distinction in Engage is at the lowest its ever been in the series. I still like Engage. I'm not replaying it as much as I did for 3 Houses because I enjoy building units in 3H a lot more and gameplay feels great too. IDC if Engage isn't as relevant as 3H, I had my fun with it and games don't need to be in the spotlight for years and years to be considered good.

[@Videodrome1991]

@@hyperm8 It damaged the series by proving to IS that a TRPG doesn't need good gameplay, story, decent pacing or even finished to make a huge profit. If you have waifus and basic anime tropes, the internet will eat it up.

[@hyperm8]

@@g.n.s.153 If you're talking about me, you misunderstand. I couldn't care less if this guy hates Three Houses or loves Engage, what really bothers me is him spouting nonsense and slander like "Three Houses harmed the series" and "nobody liked Three Houses cause I didn't like it"

[@hyperm8]

@@Videodrome1991 Fire Emblem has been less of a TRPG and more of a JRPG since Awakening. You don't see Awakening fans freaking out about map or gameplay designs, you see them freaking out about the characters, the story, the world building. I'm not saying gameplay is worthless and should be ignored, but a decent story and good world building are basic necessities for a good modern jrpg.

[@MasterStacona]

The more fun a game is to play, the less people watch that game because they are playing it. I was addicted to Fire Emblem Engage for months, then played Tears of the Kingdom, now I am back to Fire Emblem Engage. 10/10 absolute masterpiece and game of the year and decade!

[@nickcalderon2637]

No, I’m fairly certain that the more fun a game is to play, more people will actually end up watching it at the same time as playing it. To say otherwise would be to ignore the thousands of other games that were fun to play that also have tons of videos about it that many people watch.

[@Videodrome1991]

@@nickcalderon2637 He’s not wrong though. We literally had people look past the terrible gameplay of 3H, a TRPG of all things where the gameplay should come first, because they could play tea party. The new audience 3H dragged doesn’t want fun gameplay, they want friend simulators.

[@nickcalderon2637]

@@Videodrome1991 Okay, how does that correlate with anything I just said, I never commented on whether Three Houses was a good TRPG or not, all I said was that the more fun people have of playing a Game, they'll be more likely to also watch that very thing because it's their interest. But if we're gonna talk about the audience of all things, you know this how exactly?

[@gun-nut]

I love engage

[@rances4418]

There’s definitely things to like about it. Personally if this came out before three houses don’t think they would’ve been as much backlash