WHY DID KALASHNIKOV HATE 5.45 MM

[@tPsychedelic]

Kalashnikov hated 5.45 because he felt improvements could be made to the 7.62 round. At least that’s what I remember hearing him say once in an interview.

[@jwc00789]

The 6.5 Grendel would be a good balance between the two and has been adopted by Serbia

[@bradborgelt60]

In 4 years no one will be using that round.

[@myusername3689]

@@bradborgelt60 But if the Soviets adopted a 6.5x39, you bet your ass that shet would be everywhere(until import bans unfortunately).

[@danielcurtis1434]

@@bradborgelt60really??? I think it will be used as much or more than 6.8x51??? I think it’s the most balanced round you could get and still be “intermediate”? What would make more sense for the US would be to neck 5.56 to 6.5 and Jack the pressure to 65,000 psi. Pair it with a 100 grain EPR round plus a 130 grain DMR/sniper round and it would perform.

[@williamjohnson7963]

​@@bradborgelt60 Why do you say that?

[@Zajuts149]

I don't know if 6.5mm Grendel is an optimal round for a rifle/carbine, but it is definitely in the right range. I think the men designing new rifle rounds after smokeless powder was invented, made some good choices. The optimal rifle round is somewhere between 6 and 7 mm. .30 cal./7.62mm is a compromise between the heaviest practical round for rifles and the lightest effective round for machine guns. By divorcing the rifle/carbine/SAW ammunition from machine gun ammunition, you can design ammo that is optimal for each.

[@ssyn6626]

Basically this the 5mm worked better on 'naked' targets like in a lab. 7mm work better on targets with cover or as you get through the 90s 2000s are wearing armor. Even in the 70s the fact is 7mm is better in a real world sense because no one is standing there letting you shoot them.

[@Murdo_]

bro 5.45 was created to injure not to kill just imagine how much more difficult is to heal soldier than just putting him in casket

[@henrihamalainen300]

Both calibers will make the opponent pull their heads down while you wait for indirect fire or your manouver element to eliminate them. In modern combat rifles cause only a small amount of casualties and the main use is to shoot in the general direction to pin down the enemy and so in most situations it's better to have more rounds... Spec ops and swat might have different needs though.

[@sickboy4029]

Actually we split the difference and have gone to the 6mm, 6.5mm, & 6.8mm rounds.

[@HDSME]

6mm Creedmoor was the grandad of them all

[@user-kt8yp5ho2y]

Lesson: You shouldn’t just copy the other’s.

[@darchandarchan7036]

the actual lessen is to modernize your ammunition every now and then to not fall behind

[@ReapingRose115]

5.45 has superior effective range, generally had better terminal performance on targets, higher carry capacity and in an interesting data point that is rarely covered, actually performs rather well even out of a short barrel rifle like an AK105 similar to the AK104 with its 7.62. As noted by Maxim Popenker, Kalashnikov was NOT a ballistics expert, and the opinion of many Russian troops that they'd rather take a rifle in 5.45 for general use over a 7.62 AK, but 7.62x39 has its uses and probably sees more regular use with Spec Ops units. In regards to newer cartridges being developed to tackle body armour, not all flavours are 7.62 but some are even higher calibre, but there is an understanding that this comes with its own trade offs in terms of cost and carry capacity.

[@HDSME]

7.62×39 any day

[@luislongoria6621]

Russian troops prefer the PP-19 Vityaz as a personal weapon to the 5.45 Krinkov in Ukraine because Ukraine doesn't use 5.45. Krinkovs go to the lowest rank soldiers who cannot even give them away

[@CeizoBro]

@@luislongoria6621 ukraine definitely uses a lot of 5.45 lol

[@cyka7705]

@@luislongoria6621 AKS-74U still way more common to be seen than Vityaz tbh. mostly i saw Vityaz use by SOBR

[@y0h0p38]

@@luislongoria6621 Both sides in the Ukraine war's primary rifle is an AK-74/AK-74m lol? The PP-19 is rarely issued by Russia, and not used at all by Ukraine? Krinks originally were only really issued to aircraft/armored vehicle crew? That's why the krink was a status symbol within Mujahideen fighters, it meant you took out a BMP? Yes, its not only issued just to armor crew, but there's plenty of people who take it for trench combat lol

[@fuze3107]

saw a video of Russian Special forces operators in ukraine talking about how the 7.62 AKs were much more effective in Trench, urban combat due to it's ability to chew through concrete and it can deliver more force to targets who's wearing body armor than the 5.45x39 and there was a footage of VDV in hostmel using AKM probably because of the reasons i've mentioned. so don't think kalashnikov not liking 5.45 isn't really all that crazy after all.

[@jondaniels61]

Guys, hear me out... 9x39 *super*sonic..

[@233kosta]

.338 Lapua? It's only just a bit longer 😅

[@mehmeh1999]

The vss shoots that, it's pretty good, just a bit too heavy.

[@jondaniels61]

@@mehmeh1999 Supersonic version? Cause I know the VSS and AS-VAL shoot a subsonic 9x39

[@mehmeh1999]

@@jondaniels61 No, all 9 x 39 is subsonic. To make it sonic, you'd need about 50% more mass than an 762 x39 cartridge. Meaning that it would weigh like 32g vs an 762 x39s 16g.

[@jondaniels61]

@@mehmeh1999 seems perfectly reasonable to me, for the amount of stopping power youd get from it.

[@matteusvirtanen392]

Kalashnikov was a good designer but he was wrong on the superiority of 7.62x39 over 5.45x39. This video also makes some really weird points implying that militaries are switching over to 7.62mm cartridges but it's just not really the case. The only 7.62 intermediate cartridge in military use really gaining traction at the moment is 300 blackout and that is purely due to the fact that the cartridge lends itself very well to using both subsonic and supersonic rounds. 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm both offer very significant upsides over 7.6x39 such improved logistics and magazine geometry, significantly better bullet trajectory with less bullet drop at realistic combat distances, superior velocity which means you need to lead less for moving targets and the terminal ballistics on a target are superior to 7.62x39. The current trend for future small arms development is mostly towards 6mm - 6.8mm due to a combination of a need for armor penetration and fighting at longer distances. The US military investing in the 6.8x51mm cartridge is possibly a mistake due to massively increased cost of ammunition necessitated by the huge the pressures generated by the cartridge and heavier rifles. As far as we can tell 6.8x51 can't even penetrate NIJ IV ceramic armor without using some novel tungsten penetrator or similar that wouldn't be mass producible in huge numbers.

[@dariuswilliams7509]

WOMP WOMP 30Cal is King😂😂

[@gameragodzilla]

On the flip side, small caliber rounds like 5.56 and 5.45 also generally require longer barrels to achieve the velocity needed for significant wounding, or moving towards more exotic “heavy-for-caliber” loads to achieve enough momentum for reliable penetration (it’s why varmint loads for .223 are unsuitable for home defense since they explode and do a lot of surface damage but don’t penetrate sufficiently deep). This becomes an issue if you want a shorter rifle, which is also one of the reasons why .300 Blackout became popular.

[@jason200912]

6.8 isn't intended to replace battle rifle calibers like 7.62 nato. It might be a substitute for rural warfare but we don't know yet. Ironically the british and us tried to implement 280 caliber 100 years ago but american politics got in the way and they demanded 7.62 nato because it was the closest to 30-06 and the us faction was being jerks and though the opposing us faction wanted the Pedersen 276. FYI the best caliber ever made was the 7.92 cetme telescoping bullet but it got killed off due to military incompetence in which they chose 7.62 nato.

[@luislongoria6621]

Tungsten is already the military standard for armor piercing ammunition. Too bad all the proven mineral reserves are in Siberia

[@matteusvirtanen392]

@@luislongoria6621 One of the goals of the ngsw program was to penetrate NIJ IV armor without using materials like tungsten. So far I have my doubts about the M5 rifles penetrating level 4 with any ammunition but I'll wait for more testing.

[@denismuratovic6046]

7.62x39 За озбиљне борце 5.45 за њежне даме

[@DanK1977]

Absolutely incorrect Info regarding armor penetration. 7.62x39 is horrible at penetrating armor. 5.45 sucks at it to but it's because it has a hollow tip and deforms instead of driving through. 5.56, m855 especially actually does very well at penetrating anything under level IV body armor. Speed is the key to penetrating armor, not diameter and x39 is a brick. Also, most militaries are NOT fielding body armor. Western militaries are and Russia has done some but the cat majority are not

[@y0h0p38]

7.62x39 is not horrible. Yes, its not great, but 5.45 7N10 PP and 7.62 PS are both rated the same, for penetrating BR class 4 body armor. 5.45 does not suck at penetrating? Not every 5.45 round has a hollow tip? Like 7N39 and 7N40? They have tungsten penetrators and can allegedly penetrate BR class 5 body armor. M855 is good at penetrating body armor, but is also starting to fall a little bit behind. That's why EPRs like M855a1 or M995. M855 ball falls behind rounds such as 7n39. And most modern militaries are fielding body armor? Yeah maybe not third world countries, but every one else is

[@alcerixxia614]

I think he confused armor penetration with barrier penetration, which many people not really deep into the subject do. For armor, higher velocity is key, as it requires kinetic energy to penetrate, and velocity plays a way higher role in increasing kinetic energy than mass, which the 5.56 excels at. A smaller diameter projectile exerts more force on a smaller area (higher pressure), ideal for armor penetration is also the reason. Without high velocity, the only viable way is using way harder material like tungsten to basically power through whatever material the armor is made of. Barriers on the other hand, inertia is key, as thick barrier will constantly cause the projectile to tumble and disintegrate while going through, so a higher mass decreases the tendency for the projectile to deviate from its path, thus making the 7.62x39 better in those fields.

[@TheSundayShooter]

7n6 or Mk262 for light barriers M43 and M67 aren't suitable for remanufacturing (staked primers) That's just my $0.02

[@nomercyinc6783]

gun manufacturers know better than civilians

[@myusername3689]

6.8x39 or 6.5x39(6.5 grendel basically, as stated by another comment), would’ve been great.

[@HDSME]

6.3 6.5 would have a trade off between 5.56 and 7.62 smack in middle My opinion

[@baraka629]

the original 7.92x41mm CETME did it all.

[@arunzhende4490]

3:21 🔥🔥🔥😍😍😍👌👌👌

[@onerustydatsun951]

I hope you obtained Hickok45’s permission to use his footage of the range day with Anthony Oliver

[@nipuncdg]

An infantary man can carry more 5.45 bullets then 7.62 due to weight in combat plus 5.45 causes incapicatation in majority cases then casulaties with 7.62.

[@vaughanerwin7195]

he did not have his German engineers to explain things to him anymore

[@lunaticcultist9741]

Wtf are you rambling about?

[@vaughanerwin7195]

@@lunaticcultist9741 if you do your own research you would know the AK47 was designed by the top german engineers who designed the stg 44

[@lunaticcultist9741]

@@vaughanerwin7195 it doesn't use anything from the stg 44. You have a very simple mind. It has more in common with the M1 Garand then a Stg 44

[@vaughanerwin7195]

@@lunaticcultist9741 if you knew anything about gun design you know A.K never did anything the stole the ideas from the German engineers who invented the stg 44 he was a moron his design looked like they were made in third world ghetto then the 2 top engineers who invented the stg 44 were force to work for him and suddenly he has good idea the idea of not liking the 5.54 was because the Germans were no longer working for him in the 70s to advise him. I am a licensed arms dealer and gunsmith with 2 patents in Canada and spent a year in Ukraine rebuilding and updating small and mediums arms with 50yrs of shooting where you can't even follow a conversation

[@prfwrx2497]

Kalash copied and mashed together a bunch of designs. Most of them American. He's been very forthcoming about that in his publications. The action is a Garand bolt and piston. The safety was taken from Browning's model 8. The entire form factor with the pistol grip was drawn on a napkin inside a Soviet hospital before he ever laid eyes on an MKb-42. The M43 cartridge was independently developed by another Soviet bureau as a parallel development to what the Nazis did. They had similar operational requirements and basically arrived at the same solution of "short large caliber cartridge for sub 300m automatic fire".

[@baraka629]

ummmm yeaaahh, we have seen in ukraine that body armor isn't really a significant factor. After all, soldiers still have to move around to accomplish their objectives, and steel or ceramic plates are heavy. Also, trying to kit out entire divisions in full lvl 4 armor is utopic. And even then, if push comes to shove you will still have a support weapon in .308 or 7.62x54R nearby.

[@SuperFunkmachine]

A lvl 4 vest might become the norm but there still a lot of unarmored man around that vest. i'll argue that we'll see more frag rated armor around a lvl 4 core, wagering for survivable over all. After all most wounds are from small fragments not bullets and only bullets to the chest and head kill out right.

[@bitkarek]

class 5 armor??? what is that?

[@sterlingward8023]

Jest get a 6.8 spc probably solved

[@user-os8up4pc7s]

Just because armor stops something doesn’t mean said target hasn’t been taken out of the fight… said target is still absorbing that energy and it does damage to soft flesh

[@Pimpdaddy_payne]

And no one is wearing juggernaut suits so there are plenty of exposed areas to take advantage of

[@raoulduke3273]

Kalashnikov was right us adopted the sig spear which is almost like 7.62/51 everyone is going back to semi battle rifle

[@Jack72607]

6,8x51 is MORE than 7,62x51 in terms of energy and it’s just as stupid as an idea for a primary battle rifle (not a dmr) today as it was in the cold war. Small caliber high velocity ammunition gives too much of an advantage in a fight below 300m and anything above that is artillery, IFV, Tank and drone target

[@tiberius8390]

@@Jack72607 I'd agree. For below 300m you want the faster more lightweight bullets. It's easier to hit moving targets and you can carry more ammunition. Also you can still use better armor penetrating rounds, while many conflicts the US has seen since the introduction of 5.56 were against rather unprotected enemy armies. For 6.8x51 Fury rounds we have not seen their performance in a real world scenario yet, so I'd wait with my verdict there, but usually when they try to invent a one-size-fits-all thing it goes wrong.

[@Jack72607]

@@tiberius8390 I remember analysts peddling the idea that 6,8x51 could defeat lvl 4 body armor with a hardened steel core bullet like m80a1 or m885a1 epr rounds. This turned out to be false, a tungsten core is required and a few problems can be outlined: this capability can be reached by 7,62x51 m992, the new AP round costs over 20$ each and strategic tungsten reserves are mainly in mainland China

[@tiberius8390]

@@Jack72607 M993 you mean? The 7.62 round also has a tungsten carbide core though. So as I understand in both rounds be it 6.8 Fury or 7.62 NATO you need Tungsten Carbide to penetrate Lvl IV body armor. Generally, yeah. I guess for assault rifles (and DMR) they will go for 6.8 and replace the 5.56 and maybe 7.62. Yet I think both calibers will be around for a couple of more years. For actual body armor penetration if it comes to some conflict with a modern army you will need something heavier like .338 or just use "other means" I guess.

[@Jack72607]

@@tiberius8390 yes m992 is the unicorn 5,56 load. The more I think about it the more 6,8x51 is slightly lighter 7,62x51 with higher muzzle velocity out of a 13” barrel instead of a 18” but witb drastically increased barrel wear. A marginal improvement over 7,62x51 but renouncing 5,56 is really baffling…America and Nato already tried that with the main battle rifle concept and it lost against the assult rifle concept the Soviets brought to the table. Main advantage of full power ammo is for combat above 300m and in modern combined arms combat anything above that is artillery, mortar, IFV, tank, drone, automatic grenade launcher or heavy machine gun target

[@fearrogue]

Infographics is g

[@Toxic_Man_]

Now the Russians are switching to caliber 6.02

[@ngocsoni805]

In VietNam 🇻🇳 7,62 is Good choose

[@yellowneck92]

But you still wouldn't dare get hit by one

[@user-hw6hb4rk9t]

What a weird mish mash, of truths, 1/2 truths and bad info...

[@Hijackerrr]

why kalashnikov hates 5.45? because he was fudd 😄😄

[@233kosta]

I watched some dudes test black powder rifled muskets firing .54 lead ball at ballistic dummies recently. Nobody is walking away from hits like those.

[@tolik5929]

He knew it was a loser . Like the US found out with the 223 .