Why did the British attack their French Allies in WWII?

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Credit:
Created by Daniel Turner (B.A. (Hons) in History, University College London)
Script: Dejan Milivojevic
Narrator:
Chris Kane
vocalforge.com/
Sources:
Brown, David. The Road to Oran: Anglo-French Naval Relations, September 1939 - July 1940. Taylor & Francis, 2004.
Gibbs, Norman Henry, and J. R. M. Butler. Grand Strategy. Her Majesty's Stationery Office, 1976.
O'Hara, Vincent P. Struggle for the Middle Sea: The Great Navies at War in the Mediterranean Theater, 1940-1945. Naval Institute Press, 2015.
Secrets of the Dead, Season 9, Episode 5 Churchill's Deadly Decision. Directed by Richard Bond. London: 3BM Television, 2010

[@Simplehistory]

Myth of Empires is out in Early Access on Steam, check it out and make sure to wishlist it click.fan/SimpleHistory-MoE

[@Xorevre]

Hi

[@monk9008]

Magically posted before video posted :o

[@pyeitme508]

Mey

[@arkay4387]

Ok.

[@wira3359]

Shush, am italy

[@alphaxalex1634]

The answer is simple: *The UK has to attack France at least once a century and we realised it was almost half way through the 20th century*

[@ineedmoreflavour1955]

Well that and because their ships would have been used against us by the Germans if we hadn't acted It was a sad part of the war - but necessary

[@DeathbyDawn141]

Well yall have about 19 to 20 years before yall are overdue

[@justyouraveragefurryhunter226]

@Santa Claus 🅥 ja rights mr claus Ich has checked yours profile Picture don’t make me call Z Gestapo on you!

[@z-man1237]

Exactly

[@kieranmilner4208]

Old habits die hard

[@papasult11]

British: **Attacks the French** French: "I thought we were allies?!" British: "Sorry, force of habit"

[@ussr4906]

Tea and baguettes never mixed well

[@gabrielagustinhomas]

Old habits die hard, I suppose, LOL.

[@ivandevera7665]

Lmao got me wheezing

[@charnq4766]

I thought it was because the British didn't recognize the Free France government and resistance and thought they are all Vichy France Nazis puppet.

[@florians9949]

Well, the british always had an interesting conception of allience.

[@blackman5867]

Is nobody gonna talk about how well these ships were drawn ? Gotta love Simple History's works

[@blackman5867]

@@tigaputradeta4351 umm... ok ?

[@reddragon6490]

@@tigaputradeta4351 Bot

[@lispylarry7955]

Please please stop simping he is not gonna respond to your comment. This is high level of soyness

[@nail0675]

@@lispylarry7955 Please please stop being a coward and let anyone post feedback about their video. This is high level of coward.

[@mrswishadank2329]

@@lispylarry7955 wait what?

[@benoit6400]

My grandpa was among the french sailors of Mers El Kebir. He told me the British tried many times to prevent this attack by trying to convince the french admiral to join them to continue the fight against the nazis. He refused, and its fleet could have fallen into the axis powers hands. So the British destroyed it. My grandpa was arrested by British mps while on land just before the attack. He understood their decision and then served on the British side and continued the fight against the axis in North Africa. He was part of the first French SAS

[@rmd116nwthwt2]

He fought for Paris to be minority French sadly

[@MCohen28]

That’s epic bro

[@rmd116nwthwt2]

@@MCohen28 Shalom fellow White person

[@HDMaco13]

@@MCohen28 Ok Cohen

[@sammysterling]

Exactly this admiral let his men be killed for his ego and pride

[@darkqwartzsytal834]

The US: Are you two friends? France: Yes The UK: No

[@generalgrenade6463]

We are friends until he gives up

[@canadavatar]

Tom Schofield from the movie 1917 would disagree with this rivality, although he fought WWI, and he spent some time with a french lady and fed her baby.

[@nitsu2947]

the US: well, you two sort it out yourself, im gonna have a Cola and a burger in Hawaii. Aircraft ?? Oh they're just friendly bombers returning.

[@jeanrodriguez2078]

@@nitsu2947 what? It should be more like this," while you guys figure it out, I will relax in Hawaii and watch some planes with red dots on them."

[@antoineppp4377]

@@generalgrenade6463 easy to say when ur on an island while we are literally next to germany

[@vasilisgm8966]

The British really did just pull a *"Did you question my authority?"* move.

[@justyouraveragefurryhunter226]

@Santa Claus 🅥 Nein!

[@jagermeister_1754]

Yes we did

[@justyouraveragefurryhunter226]

@@tigaputradeta4351 Nein!

[@Mgaming61]

@@justyouraveragefurryhunter226 thank you, good sir! I salute you

[@justyouraveragefurryhunter226]

@ThatBritishGuy I no rights!?

[@darthvader5558]

USA : are you both friends? UK and France : yes but actually no

[@notdancooper923]

The British actually attacked the French a couple times in WW2, like the battle for Madagascar, where the British fought Vichy French forces all the way up the island. This lasted for a decent couple weeks in 1942

[@CromlixQuartz]

Free France and Vichy France were completely different governments on different sides of the war. They even fought each other across North and West Africa. Its important not to confuse that.

[@notdancooper923]

@@CromlixQuartz I mean yeah, it's not like the Brits would attack the Free French forces, that'd be like them shooting down the Polish pilots during the Blitz

[@paulpaterson1661]

Invading Madagascar was to prevent the possibility of the Japanese occupying the island to attack shipping for example.

[@lancebermejo3319]

@@CromlixQuartz So basically, the French fought against the French...

[@druisteen]

@@paulpaterson1661 Madagascar is in affrica , , in front of Kenya on a map ( approximately ) . It was impossible for the japanese to invade such island

[@ophthalmophobicnpc8002]

French: We´re best buddies, we were just allied together in this war, youre gonna leave us alone now and not attack us, right? British: (loads cannon while sipping tea) French: Right?

[@bloxracer3627]

@Santa Claus 🅥 you going on the naughty list Santa

[@nitsu2947]

British: sorry man. But you had to go French: noooooooo

[@FROST_HUGGER]

@@bloxracer3627 *proceeds to unzips pants

[@justineallandevelos6491]

British: *signals swordfish crews to ready their planes* of course....of course we're gonna keep our word chap

[@FlakeTillman]

The British gave them a chance and explicitly told them what would happen if they didn’t follow their instructions, but the French Admiralty chose to give their ships to Hitler instead.

[@ChaoticEmperor01]

“Why did the british attack the French” Because that’s been Britain/England’s main foreign policy for the last thousand year

[@ommsterlitz1805]

Yep and they kept losing for a thousand years lmao

[@ChaoticEmperor01]

@@ommsterlitz1805 depends on the century

[@ommsterlitz1805]

@@ChaoticEmperor01 Can't even think of one battle brits won against French alone without allies

[@ChaoticEmperor01]

@@ommsterlitz1805 agincourt

[@geo_brooknor2785]

@@ommsterlitz1805 the majority of naval engagements particularly for the last 300 years or so

[@FredericGaillot]

My grand father was a sailor in Mers El Kebir, and as a native of North Africa he was asked to unload ammunition and remove the fire mechanism from the boat he was serving as part of the armistice agreement signed in June. When English fleet showed up he was not aboard his boat as the natives from North Africa were asked to stay in the harbor. I remember him explaining me that he saw the first salvo hitting oil reservoirs that leaked into the water, but the second salvo hitting shortly after hit directly the Bretagne which capsized in matter of few minutes. The sailors could not leave the boat and found themselves in the water, where oil started to burn. Many sailors had only one choice; drawning or being burnt alive. 1295 sailors were killed, mostly from the "Bretagne" with nearly 1,000 dead for that boat alone. My grand father told me the story only once, he never liked to talk about war time and I understand now why. I think it is important that I'm sharing what I remember from that exchange with him that occurred almost 40 years ago. I visited the cemetery about 10 years ago.

[@enderisaacyourunlocalthigh459]

"Smug Hitler doesn't exist, he can't hurt you" Smug Hitler: 1:45

[@ReconPro]

The thumbnail is 100% historical accurate! 🇬🇧 🇫🇷

[@jordandino417]

England/Britain and France have always been enemies even if they’re allies of a war against a common enemy, they still fight each other occasionally.

[@rubenherreramomazos2075]

Fake, british used Sten MK 2

[@chairsilver2]

Yes

[@nickguitarhd8441]

@@rubenherreramomazos2075 nah thats a Lanchester, a copy of a german mp 28 used by the royal navy before they produced the stens

[@ommsterlitz1805]

@@jordandino417 But brits always get clapped against France in 1vs1 as shown they lost that ww2 betrayal after getting destroyed at the Battle of Dakar

[@fbi.4372]

French soldiers when they get notified that friendly fire is on Objective: *SURVIVE*

[@draygosiv]

Reading the comments, a few notes about the event which at least I did not catch in the video that some seem to be missing. Admiral Gensole only informed the government of internment or battle, not that they could sail to the french west indies. In addition part of Gensole's orders from Darlan were that the fleet to be sailed to the US in the event of a foreign power try to take the ships, which was one of the options the british gave. Also, Holland made multiple attempts to reach Gensole to try and stave off the attack and indeed managed to convince the British admiralty to delay by 3 hours to give more time. During this time, Admiral Le Luc issued instructions in Admiral Darlan's name, for all french ships and aircraft on that side of the Mediterranean to prepare for battle and head toward Oran, these instructions were intercepted by the british which as a result Sommerville extended the deadline until 1730(the original being 1330) but much longer and french reinforcements would have had time to arrive, following reception on the french flagship of this message around 1715, Holland left the french flagship, roughly 5 minutes before the british opened fire, not even enough time to clear the harbour. Even after launching their bombardment, upon request from shore requesting the british to cease fire, Sommverville did, giving the french another opportunity at the ultimatum, instead the french used the lull to break out of the harbour. As for those that note that the french kept their word, keep in mind that the french government broke their promise to the british not a month before concerning relations with germany Edit: turned the time to 24 hour so it wouldnt try and make it a timestamps

[@letoubib21]

*_"... that they could sail to the french west indies ..."_* Did the French ships have enough fuel fpr that?

[@__-tp4tm]

Sooo, what are the French to do after getting invaded like that, openly resist the Nazis and getting wiped some more? Well, I think that if the brits never started these battles, nothing much would've changed.

[@draygosiv]

@@letoubib21 To be honest, I do not know. However you would need roughly in the same amount of fuel, a bit more though, as to get to the united states since it is in the caribbean, and since that was an option in the orders available to the french fleet if a foreign country tried to take the ships I would think it likely. Also if they had agreed to it I would think there would have been time to fuel the ships.

[@druisteen]

*Gensoul not gensole He believed he didn't have the fuel for and that's pretty correct

[@draygosiv]

@@druisteen yeah I'm not the best with remembering spelling

[@mehmetdemir4858]

Imagine if waterloo and agincourt were fought with baguettes and cups of tea?

[@adventussaxonum448]

I'd rather face a baguette than a hot cup of tea. Advantage of range as well.

[@MichelleW870]

@@adventussaxonum448 you can throw the cup of tea at people using the cup to burn them, and if you run out you throw the cup smashing it on their face.

[@nicholasfitzsimmons7311]

Old rivalry never seems to end.

[@RackHasAttacked]

Darling

[@phoenixrose1192]

@@RackHasAttacked Baaaah

[@CarefreeMan]

*Well, bugger me with a fish fork!*

[@paxhumana2015]

...until the Infinity Gauntlet comes into play by one pissed off person that is tired of all of their fucking bullshit, then said bullshit ends very quickly.

[@dantheguitarist5823]

Well I have a cunning plan!

[@civilengineer3349]

As a Canadian, I dip my baguette in my tea

[@MustacheCashStash125]

When your half Anglo-Canadian half French-Canadian.

[@generalgrenade6463]

MI5 speaking we're gonna need your address don't worry about the SWAT teams

[@DeNihility]

Sir, that's a warcrime.

[@alnu8355]

I thought you guys had Poutine instead.

[@zyanego3170]

Based.

[@doughboymilitaria]

Lol, that thumbnail is a masterpiece. That definitely deserves to be in a museum…

[@davidbofinger]

Not mentioned here is that the French Admiral in command at Mers-El-Kebir failed to properly report the British terms to his superiors in Vichy, instead leaving out the compromise options of e.g. being interned by the Americans.

[@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684]

Or indeed simply sailing to French Martinique and NOT being interned by the US.

[@darth_elsa6681]

Fun Fact....when the Germans eventually took the rest of France...the French Navy scuttled their ships. However, they aslo sent a message to Churchill saying we did what we promised you we'd do.

[@whispofwords2590]

Yes, but did you expect the british to just take their word with so much at risk? Also there was no guarantee the french ships wouldn't be boarded and the crews overpowered before they could scuttle their ships. This was a war after all. Just stating your intentions doesn't suddenly mean you'll be able to see them through

[@TheArklyte]

@@whispofwords2590 risk didn't matter, UK has no friends, only temporary allies, remember? Destroying french fleet meant less competitors even after the war.

[@DravgonPL]

@@TheArklyte yeah bro ww2 just proved that britain shouldn't have any friends.

[@generalgrenade6463]

@@DravgonPL so risking all of Europe just just Cause there friends the Royal Navy was at the breaking point they had to fight Italy Germany and Japan Italy had a really good Navy Germany had the u-boats Japan had air Supremacy and the UK was at the breaking point so risking Germany getting one of the most powerful Navy in the world could destroy the Royal Navy

[@generalgrenade6463]

@@TheArklyte so you expect the UK just to ignore one of the most powerful navy's in the world get into Germany hands if that happened it's the end of the UK

[@renzjosephremo4143]

i like how the french in the thumbnail uses baguette as a literal sword

[@ReconPro]

War Crime!

[@donovanhardnet6282]

😂😂🤣

[@NameWitheld159]

Also the tea is a weapon

[@rubenherreramomazos2075]

And british uses tea LOL

[@ismellofsandwiches7058]

Hot tea blinds the enemy for 20 minutes

[@noahcarver6072]

Incredible. Why isn't this event more talked about. Despite all the history lessons and popular culture on WWII, I've never heard this story before.

[@09stoneheart]

For Churchill the French fleet was as much as political threat as a military one. A key part of his poltical strategy to keep Britain in the war was the assurance to the British public that Britain had complete naval supremacy and Germany could never challenge them in order conduct an invasion of Britain itself. Even if there was a slim chance the French fleet could fall under the German control it could have fueled opposition to the war in Britian and seen his opponents push Churchill to seek peace like they had initially tried in early June 1940.

[@generalgrenade6463]

@Your Kark sure we are

[@comradekenobi6908]

@Your Kark im not so sure

[@andreiiacob4315]

US navy: exists. Britain realising they don't have the best navy anymore: 🤡

[@mikespearwood3914]

@@andreiiacob4315 Not during WW2 though.

[@comradekenobi6908]

@@mikespearwood3914 US has best ww2 navy

[@merlinlenchanteur2938]

My great grand father served on the Bretagne during the battle of Mers el-Kebir and thanksfully he survived ! He later told my grand father that if he encountered a British soldier on the beach were he took refuge, after jumping of the boat, he would have "gutted" him right here and now

[@T-1001]

Maybe if the French leaders had taken a better stance none of the fighting would have happened. Literally every option except battle left the fleet in French hands in the long run.

[@Xelzeno]

​@@T-1001 Well except for as this video itself even covers, the French scuttled their navy as they had earlier promised when it was ACTUALLY about to fall into German hands. This attack did nothing but worsen relations between the French and British.

[@pujo6532]

@@T-1001 Joining the British means seeing the armistice conditions drastically harden, knowing that the family who have remained in France may find themselves in danger. Easy to judge 80 years later, even Churchill and Cunningham confessed that it was one of the toughest decisions of their careers for low results.

[@DravgonPL]

@@Xelzeno yeah bro just like you said british leaders only made French honor in this agreement seems worthless.

[@donnyboon2896]

Justifiably so.

[@TheKnowledgeMan101]

Here are some topics to talk about: The Battle of Leyte Gulf General Douglas MacArthur The Battle of Kursk The Battle of Berlin The Philippine-American War Winston Churchill The Nuremberg Trials

[@m1994a3jagnew]

Korea.. Storming Inchon. Capturing Pyongyang. The Chosin Reservoir.

[@DravgonPL]

The yalta treaty

[@diligentone-six2688]

The Gulf War Operation Just Cause Operation Urgent Fury Operation Uphold Democracy

[@blitzzkrieg1400]

The battle of Manila and the Palawan massacre

[@joeyphaahla]

The Kokoda Campaign

[@sauceyeti4381]

"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be *detested in France."* - Duke of Wellington

[@thedoktorfrag7962]

English officer : You French fight for money while we fight for honour Surcouf : Each of us fights for what he lacks most

[@LOeuffy]

Nice profile picture dude, vive la BC.

[@ifarded4986]

I had heard of this. I knew the ships were scuttled but I had no clue there was loss of life. Great video I always learn something new with yall keep it up!

[@tonyz7216]

They were not scuttled they were shelled by the British. Maybe you were thinking about when the French navy scuttled in Toulon in November 1942. Mers el Kebir attack was in July 1940.

[@xAznNationsx]

*British attack French* French: but why British: sorry force of habit

[@generalgrenade6463]

Its not a habit it's just we don't like the German kid u are playing with

[@arcihungbycraneonfire]

@@generalgrenade6463 French: hehe

[@nezuko4278]

@@generalgrenade6463 French: :/ French: >:(

[@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470]

Stolen

[@GlitchedBlox]

If you're going to steal comments, at least change it up a bit.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

A small correction, from the outset. The French were no longer Britain's allies on 3 July, 1940. France had ceased to be Britain's ally after the Reynaud administration collapsed.

[@olinxy6886]

But they were not at war

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@olinxy6886 No, but the British were being pragmatic. They knew the terms of the French armistice, and were willing to do whatever was necessary to prevent the French fleet being used to support an invasion attempt. The fact is that the British at the time were desperate, and were willing to act in a desperate manner. Prior to the French surrender, the British had agreed to release the Reynaud government from its obligations as an ally, so that it might seek a separate armistice with Germany. This concession was granted with the provision that the French fleet would be placed under effective British control and not surrendered to the enemy. The British held that the Pétain government’s acceptance of Germany’s terms amounted to an act of treachery.

[@olinxy6886]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 But the French Navy was never surrendered to the German... So nothing justify the surprise attack of the British, killing hundred of unprepared French sailor...

[@mengquensiew3140]

@@olinxy6886 This was in hindsight. The French scuttled their ships as promised, but this action occurred long after the video's contents. The British action can be condemned as an "unprovoked" attack on a "neutral" state, but Churchill and other hawks were like unwilling to gamble on, in today's words, a "just trust me, bro" verbal promise. Plus, the video also left out the fact that very few French colonies or personnel sided with De Gaulle's Free France resistance movement at the time. This could have influenced the British hawks that the majority of the French were neutral at best and were a potential hostile state at worst.

[@joshuaandre8911]

@@olinxy6886 Waiting for British justification comments

[@TheCsel]

Not mentioned, Gensoul after refusing to meet with the English captain, also failed to mention to his superiors that the British gave them the option to sail to the Americas. And basically just told them the British said to surrender or be sunk. Sailing to the Americas would have fulfilled their treaty with the Germans, satisfied the British, and kept their ships and honor. Gensoul and the French Government were also seen as unreliable at this point as well, they had changed their stances several times and British intelligence knew they weren't be completely truthful. Hitler of course not be trusted with any agreement to let the French keep the ships. And finally not mentioned, the French ships responded to the arrival of the British fleet by preparing to leave harbor. I think the British definitely escalated the issue needlessly and should have been more patient, but at that point the French tied their hands. If you tell them an ultimatum and the French refuse the demands and then also refuse to negotiate and then prepare to get the armed warships into position, you pretty much are forced to shoot them to not endanger your own crew.

[@mr.beatnskeet6876]

lol France sailing its ships outside the Axis' geographical purview would've been them giving Germany the same "trust us mate" people think the UK would've been foolish to rely on. Germany allowed Vichy France to exist with its navy as it provided the benefits of sparing its own military resources invading further as well as having the French Navy serve either as a stand-in whose neutrality would be respected or if not, a force capable of repelling an Allied attack. Once the former was outright gone and the latter was at best questionable, Germany had pretty much zero reason not to invade and take responsibility for France's southern border itself, which was precisely what Gensoul was trying to avoid. It's one thing to think that all scenarios weighed, the British made the correct choice. But the whole "Stubborn French guys big dumb" is just gaslighting history.

[@druisteen]

Gensoul tryed to win time for escape the trap . What it performed relatively well , savin the Strasbourg and several destroyers .

[@alfrancisbuada2591]

If we were taught anything in history is that old wounds are never sealed

[@triplefish4579]

the British and French have to fight each other atleast once a century it would not be history without it. Also Greece has to fight Turkey once a century too

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

The clock is ticking for both of these things to happen.

[@dionesvaldez088]

Ships Of The Marine Nationale 1:55 The French Fleet: Provance, Bretagne, Strasbourg, & Dunkerque 3:50-3:55 The Wehrmacht & Kriegsmarine Commandeering The Whole Marine Nationale Fleet & Combining It With The Kriegsmarine Fleet To Be Used Against The French & British 3:57 Operation: Catapult - The Seizure / Neutralization Of French Fleet To Prevent Its Downfall To German Or Italian Hands 4:25 Mers-El-Kébir Port 7:44 HMS Resolution & Valiant Open Fire At French Ship 8:09-8:10 Mogadour Sunk 8:50-8:52-8:57 French Retaliation Fire 9:08 Provance Sunk 9:32

[@GrandAdmiralGamez]

This is something that we never learn in history classes. I love it. Maybe we'll learn more history, maybe about certain over-reported casualties about this time?

[@leonardosaffier1705]

I really, really hope you're not refering to the holocaust

[@luigimrlgaming9484]

The reason why we didn’t learn of it is because it’s not a major event and didnt set much in motion

[@AliHassan-sh6lt]

The whole world: why are u fighting ? Uk and France: ah sorry force of habit

[@Colk13]

I was reading a book about a French crew officier docked at Toulon during the beginning of ww2, when the armistice was signed, several ships including the one he was serving on left Toulon to join the free French forces, while they were on the sea, they heard of this battle and were so disgusted by the English action’s that they turned back to Toulon, but he also participated on the sabotage of the fleet during Case Anton, showing that that the french fleet wasn’t gifted to the Germans

[@ioannis1056]

What's the title of the book?

[@thatguybrody4819]

the polish freedom fighters won the war.

[@ioannis1056]

@@thatguybrody4819 thx

[@Colk13]

@@ioannis1056 « Le Pacha » but it is an old book that is only in French I think

[@harbl99]

Ah yes, another classic of the "I was with La Resistance all along" genre that became huge in France after 1945.

[@luigidisanpietro3720]

*When the British tried to introduce "Beans on Toast" to the French be like:*

[@bishalgurung4356]

French:No no no no no, we put cheese on it.

[@roboticpotato3974]

Good job! You always make entertaining videos and make my day! I love history so you make it better!

[@pov1698]

Simple, they were pissed off of seeing blue for 600 years...

[@MustacheCashStash125]

Yo listen up here’s the story about a little guy that lives in a blue world…

[@joshuafarmer3467]

That was interesting. I have never even heard of this battle from WWII though I have studied it all of m y like. Subscribed and thanks!

[@hanssachs9038]

Gensoul did not communicate all 5 options to the Vichy regime. He misled the French Admiralty to believe that there were only options 4 and 5. The tragedy was partly his responsibility. Harry Hopkins noted that this attack convinced Roosevelt that the British meant to "stay in the fight, alone and if necessary for years".

[@druisteen]

Are you citing a British source ???? Do you think it's neutral .... after all they commited the war crime and i don't expect them to assume

[@FireheartSamurai]

I read that title thinking the French didn’t have the balls to fight back against the British. But the whole video gave a good enough answer for me.

[@misterf2785]

Why would they fight back ? That is a very retarted comment

[@anakinskywalkercrappyprodu2205]

@Santa Claus 🅥 "cough 7 years war"

[@Slyarno2795]

Reminds me of Gordon Ramsay against a French chef.

[@ommsterlitz1805]

Well of course they fight back the brits got clapped at the battle of Dakar

[@shaider1982]

It's unfortunate that popular media had spread the joke about the French always surrendering. Yet, Dunkirk might not have beem evacuated without the bravery of the French rear guard.

[@darthplagueis3488]

1:45 Hitler: I officially sign your participation contract for NNN

[@joeyHicks1000]

I read somewhere that it was also supposed to send a message, both to Germany/the Axis powers and any Allied or Neutral countries that Britain would not hesitate to do what was seen as 'necessary' to win the war, regardless of how terrible it was. Also, the Admiral in charge of the British fleet (as well as many of the sailors) opposed the idea and wanted to keep negotiations open but was given direct orders to start the attack.

[@TheCsel]

Yes, not mentioned was the French Navy had begun to get ready to leave harbor. It would have taken them quite awhile, but the British superiors were not willing to let the French possibly escape or get in a better position to fight back if they did choose violence.

[@druisteen]

@@TheCsel What do you expected ?? They had strong goal for the french , keep the peace whive geramany ... surrendering to the British would lead to terrible retaliation . We are talking about the nazies ... the nazies in Paris ( 4 milions of civilians )

[@TheCsel]

@@druisteen France had previously said they would continue to fight like the Polish navy and the Dutch navy. Then they were suddenly changing their mind based on what Hitler wanted. The French then gave their guarantee that they would not give their fleet to Hitler, but at that point they had doubts they could trust the remaining French government to follow their word, and they definitely could not trust Hitler. The British Ultimatum gave the French several choices take, some were within the scope of the treaty with Germany and likely would not get retaliation. Leave to the French Caribbean, leave to neutral USA, sink your own ships, continue the fight with the British, or get sunk by the British. The French admiral obstructed the negotiations and only reported half of the options to his government. He then chose to have the British sink his ships by trying to set sail.

[@druisteen]

@@TheCsel Well .....Nobody expected UK to stand more than few months . Exept chuchill made a deal whive USA , something France wasn't aware .

[@captainzorikh]

This video shows a lot of the "how" but very little of the "why." Other sources make note of how the personalities of the French and Brithis admirals and the lack of communication with London at Mer El Kebir led to the inevitability of the destruction. There is a lot of material about how Churchill was trying to prove to Roosevelt that the British were still willing to keep up the fight. It would also have been nice for this video to show how this attach changed the relationship between Britain and Vichy France. Until that point, the two nations still kept diplomatic relations open. Afterwards, France cut off such relations, considering Britain to be hostile. France even sent a bombing mission to Gibraltar in response. Although Vichy France did scuttle its fleet at Tulon, at the same time its troops resisted the British and American landings in North Africa. Vichy troops also fought to maintain control in the Middle East and Madagascar agains Free French and British troops. It is interesting to wonder how different history might have been if a way had been found to not attack the French fleet.

[@MahsaKaerra]

I've read somewhere that part of why the British were so quick to resort to violence was an attempt to send a message to the United States. After the French-British defeat at Dunkirk the President, already under pressure from Congress to give up on the Lend-Lease plan, needed to be convinced that the UK was still able and willing to continue the war.

[@druisteen]

Don't try to negociate exhibing your guns .

[@jimlaker6552]

Also the Syrian War, where there was the additional subplot of Free French Foreign Legionnaires fighting against Vichy Legionnaires. During Torch, the plan was for all fighting against the French to be done by Americans, since the Vichy garrisons might reach an accommodation with Americans, but absolutely would not with the British.

[@arcihungbycraneonfire]

I hope thats next

[@adventussaxonum448]

Just left us with the Germans, then? 😄

[@MCohen28]

Respect to the French for honouring their word

[@kortiv7643]

Force of habits.

[@richirich999]

Meh, French admiral got his men killed only to continue fighting the same enemy for the rest of the war.

[@kieranlee9610]

well they bitched out from Germany Britain told them not to they did and they got absolutely destroyed

[@richirich999]

@@kieranlee9610 France in general didn’t really get a W in WW2. Even tho the Allie’s won they still in my eyes hood a fat L.

[@captainloaf4767]

when instead if they intended to scuttle the fleet why not continue the fight to help relive there countrymen you can see how this looked to the British. this all happened because of the French admirals arrogance.

[@oliversherman2414]

Keep up the great stuff

[@16Haverson]

It's sad that allies only a short time ago fought needlessly. May the french sailors be remembered for their sacrifices and also keeping their promise to scuttle their ships in the end even after what happened.

[@jokodihaynes419]

Charles de Gaulle had trouble trying to get French soldiers to fight for him because of this attack

[@DravgonPL]

No wonder

[@lamarmottequimetlechocolat848]

All that this attack did was helping Germany and Vichy to recruit soldiers to fight for them

[@generalgrenade6463]

@@lamarmottequimetlechocolat848 and stop one of biggest navy’s in the world attack the uk we all know now the french sunk them but how was the uk going to know

[@cpp3221]

@@generalgrenade6463 it's true, but the hate Britain got in return, is, sadly understandable. Imagine, you're a French citizen, your country just had it most traumatizing and decisive defeat of it long history, and then your allies kill your own countrymen without any decleration of war ? Personnally, not knowing really who was De Gaulle, I just would have think that the man was a British puppet greedy for power to the point of allowing the murder of it's fellows countrymens. Because I wouldn't have any history book to give me the clues about what was going on. And many in the French population surely came accross that situation.

[@AeneasGemini]

@@cpp3221 Nobody would ever think that De Gaulle was a British Puppet, even without the benefit of historical hindsight. The guy was practically racist against the British in his general attitude towards them, at best he thought they were useful in the short term and actually wanted a vision of Europe that had Britain removed from any position of strength (didn't want them to be a part of the EU)

[@roflmywaffles1313]

He couldn't let his ancestors down after all

[@druisteen]

your a troll

[@roflmywaffles1313]

@@druisteen before you reply make sure your sentence contains proper grammar.

[@Kabutoes]

Because of this incident, the Vichy govt used it as propaganda against the British and allies. And for some reason, when Operation Torch commenced, the British and Americans really expected the French to join them right away...and what happened was more fighting. turned out it wasn't so easy to convince the French after such an incident

[@spork3526]

Immagine abandoning your ally in Dunkirk, attacking their navy and expect them to join you

[@the.real.cia.langley]

@@spork3526 That's completely right.

[@DeadManSinging1]

@@spork3526 If the British didn't "abandon" them at Dunkirk, the whole of Europe would be speaking German right now. It wasn't how it was percieved. The French Forces willingly covered the British retreat.

[@cpj93070]

@@spork3526 That French army should have been more prepared then, and actually invaded Germany though the Saarland in 1939 and not a pathetic 3 miles like they did.

[@User-he6zd]

@@spork3526 Fully agree. The French should have kept working with the German government at the time against the backstabbing Brits. The Vichy was completely neutral, and no enemy

[@nirpsa824]

the background drawing of Toulon is very accurate ! nice

[@raphaelroberge1786]

Wow. I'm surprised that after all that, they still scuttled the fleet. Talk about keeping your word no matter what.

[@DravgonPL]

Yeah this was a literral kinfe in the back

[@b_de_silva]

@@DravgonPL it was fair game, admiral darlan had said that he'd rather mutiny and fight alongside the British rather than joining france after the armistice, then he only had a general opposition to the armistice and right after that he joined the vichy government, he went from ally to enemy in a matter of weeks through his own actions, so no words that came out of his mouth should be trusted by the Brits

[@bofoenss8393]

The scuttling of the fleet in Toulon was as much a result of Germany invading Vichy France and crushing the token armed forces Vichy France had. The Navy was the only real force and asset of any kind. They knew they could not sail to North Africa, they would be bombed by Germans and Italians on the way, and they could not fight. So they scuttled the fleet. It was as much to prevent assets from falling into enemy hands than to keep a promise. The Danish fleet under similar circumstances did the same in August 1943.

[@adriannaranjo4397]

Britain: "Why does everyone hate us?" Also Britain: *Attacks it's own allies*

[@loyalpiper]

Vichy France wasn't actually our ally after the armistice.

[@genericguy6382]

@@loyalpiper yes however they werent an enemy either

[@chombus2602]

@@genericguy6382 but they could help an enemy

[@occi31]

@@chombus2602 Which they didn’t, they scuttled their fleet at Toulon.

[@faithnfire4769]

@@occi31 And then they attacked the Allied landings in Africa

[@asianlifter]

1:42 that smirk lol

[@RRKGAMEZ]

You guys make really good videos

[@Nipplator99999999999]

The honor of the French to scuttle their entire fleet, even after what happened, is the same honor civilians can't understand when several soldiers risk their lives to save a single soldier lost behind enemy lines.

[@leroiarouf1142]

Facts

[@eldridgedavis]

This^

[@richdobbs6595]

Meh. It was in the best interest of the French Navy to not allow their naval assets to aid their occupiers. By that point, it was clear that the Axis would end up losing. From the POV of military honor, it allowed them to claim that the British had mistreated them, when it is just as arguable that they should not have complied with an armistice negotiated by traitors. Petain was convicted of treason....

[@cowboydoggo6168]

Yeah I still don’t understand it. Saving private Ryan was stupid.

[@mrp7874]

@@cowboydoggo6168 you're right. 'I'm willing to risk 70 lives, 15 of which die, just so we can save one dude' is... stupid. 15 people dead because you wanted to play hero and save 1. Good work. I'm sure all 15 of the dead soldiers family will be eternally grateful for not having a father growing up because of a dumb suicide mission.

[@timg2088]

Wow! As much as I've studied WWII history, I've never heard such details about this conflict. Excellent video as always! 👍

[@druisteen]

For how much time you studied ??? It's a major event folowing the disaster of Dunkirk and the birth of Vichy and Free France .

[@dougbutcher4452]

I did not know about this. Thank you.

[@robbabcock_]

Great video!

[@scruppell]

French love their baguette, It can be used as a weapon or as a food. Brit's love Tea!! Once steaming hot it could be lethal!

[@seanskinner4012]

Man the animation quality is a major step up from when I first watch your videos s few years back

[@thehistorybox1163]

Great video

[@pointly]

British: "Let's attack the French. For old time's sake."

[@jadeorbigoso5212]

It's their Fault though Option 1-3 is a good option for them

[@Reposterkkkk]

Video suggestion: the brazilian expeditionary forces. Most known as smoking snakes.

[@SHAHIDKC]

I love how kaiser whilleim's stupidity nade both of the worst enemies friends.

[@puma2334]

Weren’t the British and French allies during the Crimean War?

[@letoubib21]

@@puma2334 Do you really think he/she(it knows the Crimean War?

[@puma2334]

@@letoubib21 Probably

[@letoubib21]

​@@puma2334 Btw., what was that? remembering the words _raglan,_ and _cardigan_ it must have been something about fashion *;-)*

[@puma2334]

@@letoubib21 The charge of the light brigade

[@octopussmasher2694]

An incredible episode in history

[@DavudkadrinkingPotato]

I love your way to tell history😁

[@deluca1031]

Love how the British is using MP28 and Tea while the French using Baguette and pistol (i don't know the name) Also yeah,Mers El-Kebir is really an act of betrayal from the view of the French. While it seen as must happen thing to do from the view of the British.

[@Kappa7837]

I think its a Ruger

[@Mestari1Gaming]

Ain't that the Lanchester smg?

[@BadBomb555]

Lanchester SMG is basically a copy of MP28 with additional bayonet lug.

[@joeyphaahla]

@@Mestari1Gaming yeah

[@cloaker1619]

Lanchesters mate mot MP28 that would have been a german spy

[@Cactus_fucker]

The french remembered waterloo, the brits made sure it stayed a memory

[@druisteen]

Yeah ....and they call french people " Arrogant " :)

[@tm.8399]

Waterloo is remember as the birth of German/France bileading of Europe and the death of England as a european leader. You may remember it as avictory, the french and german remembers that you were getting crushed and the real fight was between France and Prussia.

[@archivesoffantasy5560]

@@tm.8399 so Napoleon lost solely to a 72 year old man who thought he was pregnant with an elephant ? Yikes, what a way for the emperor to go out.

[@ryanwaters3318]

So weird I saw an older video on another channel about this exact thing earlier today!

[@ianmetcalfe7389]

Nasty bit of business having to open fire on your allies but when has war ever brought the best out of people.

[@Dutch_T]

Every time you post a new video the animation gets better and better, I love it.

[@Shippy68]

Wow you animation and overall visuals have come a long way!

[@patrickbateman4335]

I've been watching since 2018 and I'm amazed at your skills right now.

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

France October 1939: "don't worry Britain we promise we will stay loyal to the allied cause and not make a separate peace with Germany" France July 1940: signs an armistice with Germany and cooperates with the axis powers...." But don't worry Britain we will not let our fleet fall into German hands" Britain: "after your last promise to us I think we will see to it ourselves that it doesn't"

[@redknight344]

well... they kept their promise

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

@@redknight344yes in November 1942 when it was likely the allies would win the war ... Shame they didn't have the balls to keep fighting the Nazis in 1940 like Britain did ( the free French thought stayed loyal to the allies and fought bravely for which I respect them)

[@boss180888]

@@lightfootpathfinder8218 britain promised to help during the battle for france but instead ran away in the begining of the fight as the french army dupped by their british allies covered their retreat, they then refused to re-send the BEF to france as the country was attacked. so honestly i don't see your point that france somehow failed to keep it's word! if anything it was britain who failed to keep their promises

[@lightfootpathfinder8218]

@@boss180888 the British expeditionary force held the German forces in Belgium it was the French divisions further south at sedan that broke and let the German panzer divisions storm into the British rear area forcing the BEF to withdraw to the channel ports or be encircled and destroyed! The French have only got there own troops and commanders to blame for what happened. Also Britain did form a second BEF after Dunkirk from rear echelon troops still in france aswell as two divisions it sent from England but it was not enough to hold the German advance. And finally Britain offered France a indissoluble union with the UK but France turned it down and decided to seek an armistice instead. You Wana do abit more research mate

[@camm8642]

the british were making evcuation plans while the french were trying to mount another offensive..........abandoned france, the channel islands, greece etc........if it wasn't for america there would have been no western front certainly not on the strength of the british.

[@mattkaustickomments]

It was tragic, but the Vichy French had plenty of good options. I think that Admiral’s arrogance and ego caused the unnecessary bloodshed. If I was in the British position, I’d have done the same thing.

[@jonathansotelo4877]

Yeah. It's easy to trust the French navy to keep their word and they did. I just have a strict policy against trusting Nazis and everyone else should as well.

[@Perrirodan1]

I'm French and I agree, if they didn't want to get shot they should have sailed to Britain or scuttle their ships.

[@limmyk4943]

All historical counts points to the Admiral being to prideful as the man who was sent to meet him was a meer officer

[@adrien5834]

@@limmyk4943 What does it matter? The Vichy government made the decision, not Gensoul.

[@druisteen]

@@Perrirodan1 That's now so easely .Educate yoursel

[@CJ_1406]

British: Tea is the best!! French: Non!! Baguette is better!! USA: Why am I allies with them again?

[@noidea5984]

Because they pay

[@kairi7912]

I love your videos ! You are really cool!❤

[@ENZOMAN12]

This is why i subscribed. I never knew this was a thing.

[@typicalperson6389]

France: BRITAIN! MY NAVY, WHAT DID YOU DO?! I THOUGHT I LEFT THE CONFLICT Britain: shut up german puppet i still havent forgotten the 100 years war

[@druisteen]

Their worst defeat ! They loved so much of our wine from Bordeaux

[@stevenstuff8823]

reminds me of a game where you can stab people with begueets

[@phoenixmilburn8759]

As someone who's Great Uncle Sylas served in the Canadian Millitary (Native American Euro Branch to use the term tortoise most famously along with lots from our native toung)of got escorted by the Royal Navy over seas and he was one of them and he had never ending story's of how even the Natives were welcomed to drink and Smoke and Sing and Joke with the rest of the British and white Canadians and fought with a fury along side them in the first and second world wars albe it at a cost of most of his sanity he had at tape line around all his places he slept in the house my mom amsaid because he couldn't be touched in hes sleep because he had PTSD from mainly the Trenches but he said the Beach was worse than anything you could imagine and the pictures show it im just glad he only got a bash and a graze here and there his medical records pretty much say but I'm just happy he lived out the rest of his days with my family I never met him hes passed away when my mom was like my age but iv heard all the storys and seen all the records to prove it and I love him to death for it

[@user-xq5og9lt8p]

-Your majesty, we have a perfect excuse to attack the French!!! -At least something good came out of this war!

[@druisteen]

You should know the british crown wasn't plaised at all by the attack .

[@abraham7414]

I love the thumbnail of the British guy spilling tea on the French guy and the French guy shielding himself with a baguette

[@HWDragonborn]

*baguette

[@damunchy1086]

A rivalry as old as time

[@badgamemaster]

French: the UK attacked and destroyed our ships Denmark: well they didn't bomb one of your cities when doing so....

[@druisteen]

Brest bombin , the city was erazed to 80's in 1945

[@hanpolo2727]

British: here's 5 options. French: *reads fifth option.* you'd attack our fleet? Pfft nah you'd see that as unsporting. British: Oh really? The Next Day. *British fleet sinks French fleet.* French: Oh they were serious?! (But seriously as a UK citizens I wish to take my hat off and remember all the French sailors who lost their lives on that day.)

[@americaalt]

So, basically French pearl harbor but the enemy fleet actually shows up, some of your ships escape.

[@charangill1848]

France: why did you attack me? Britain: yes

[@hkchan1339]

Britain: because it’s our foreign policy

[@robertcisneros2303]

Britain: Execute order 66

[@KelsaRavenlock]

Wow he does an ad for a war game and the video in the exact same tone and style with no break. I was probably 2 minutes in before I realised the ad was over and the video started so had to restart.

[@williaml.]

Historigraph did a really great vid on that

[@Allsoproductions]

Please do a video on the St. Nazaire raid!

[@somerandomdude6394]

Could you do a video on Operation Gatling (70's) it was a Rhodesian anti-terrorist operation which ended in Rhodesian victory with very very few casualties compared to the terrorists estimated 1000-1500 casualties. Edit: you might have your own opinions about Rhodesia and Ian Smith but please don't start a firestorm in the comments

[@kapish094]

They weren’t terrorists in this situation, they were rebels, rebelling against the white minority government. While the victory is still a battle to be looked at, we cannot deny they weren’t terriosts

[@britannicgeneral7460]

@@kapish094 Yes they where. They slaughtered children deliberately with melee weapons.

[@marklems5894]

@@britannicgeneral7460 I think that's the Rwanda Genocide

[@britannicgeneral7460]

@@marklems5894 No honestly I've seen pictures taken from the time in a documentary.

[@somerandomdude6394]

@@britannicgeneral7460 you're right

[@oliversherman2414]

I love your channel

[@ElJefeDeTexas]

British: *gives 5 options* French: 🥖 British: so you have chosen death & ☕