Why Didn’t They Believe Me with Dr. Ingrid Clayton - Part 1 | Navigating Narcissism with Dr. Ramani

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Season 2 of Navigating Narcissism premieres on March 16th!
Dr. Ingrid Clayton grew up in an alcoholic household, and when her mother's second husband, her stepdad, came into the picture, consistent emotional abuse ensued. This resulted in childhood trauma which affected her life long-term. Part 1 of 2 of Ingrid's story is filled with examples of trauma bonding, grooming, and gaslighting she received from her stepfather. As Ingrid tried to navigate life as a teenager, she sought out her mother's help, who seemed so disconnected--another sign of a narcissistic family system. Ingrid's upbringing led her down a dark path with alcohol abuse and AA. Listen to this episode and find out what Ingrid realized about her stepfather and mother and the actions she took to start turning her life around for the better.
If you like Part 1, make sure to listen to Part 2 of Ingrid’s story
I want to hear from you, too. Have a toxic topic you want me to explore? Email me at [e-mail]. I just might answer your questions on air.
Guest Bio:
Ingrid Clayton, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist and author. Her recent memoir is Believing Me: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse and Complex Trauma. She is a contributor to Psychology Today, where her article, “What is Self-Gaslighting?” is considered an Essential Read. Ingrid has been interviewed for countless publications and podcasts, including Women’s Health Magazine and The Healing Trauma Podcast.
Guest Information:
Ingrid Clayton’ Website - ingridclayton.com
Ingrid Clayton’s Book - Believing Me
Ingrid Clayton’s Instagram - @ingridclaytonphd
Ingrid Clayton Facebook - Ingrid Clayton, Ph.D.
This podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and/or therapy from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast.
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Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
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[@cathycarr8085]

Where do I begin. Finally the feelings and words to describe my reality. Overwhelming loneliness and fear. In my case my mother was the narcissist. Her boyfriends or husbands were extremely violent. At the ages of 13 and 14 I had to testify in court against a boyfriend and a husband who were charged with assault with a deadly weapon against the family. I just turned 70 and gratefully found Dr. Romani on You Tube. Gaining knowledge from her posts, I was able to go no contact with an abusive friend. I realize the healing is just beginning. Thank you. I am grateful my last decades will be for me.

[@tiffcat1100]

💜💕💜

[@sandrablackmon4945]

God bless you 🙏

[@CALredhead]

Take good care of yourself. I'm the oldest of 5 children . We (oldest 3) always knew, even as toddlers, my mother was brutally, physically abusive virtually every day of our lives. I only realized this year at age 73 she was also a neglectful, sadistic (says my psychiatrist) narcissist. It's been so much more painful to face the fact my mother quite literally didn't care if I lived or died unless it inconvenienced her by depriving her of my 24/7, built-in childcare from age of 3. Have faith - things do get better & we can heal. God bless❣️

[@Justice55339h]

I also just went no contact with an emotionally abusive narcissistic friend!❤

[@brittneysperspective8433]

@39:00 Women who pick men over their children are extremely sick. It is so disturbing. Horrible.

[@kerrysmook452]

Agree should be a jail sentence for them I feel

[@carolinekamya2339]

they are not mother ...yes sick in the head ,heart, and spirit

[@cosmicsageastrology]

My husband tried so hard to get me to choose him over our kids...he would get upset when I "accepted" behavior from our young kids that I didn't accept from him. He actually said that to me. I told him over course because they are children that are learning and he is an adult. When i stepped in when he would gaslight them...he would rage even more and turn on me telling me to stay out of it. As I put boundaries in place he stepped up the abuse so bad.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

@@cosmicsageastrologywell done you. 💚

[@user56gghtf]

Any adult that picks another person being it child, man or women over their children is wrong. It's not just women picking men over their children. I've seen it with fathers, mothers, picking the child's friends or other family members over their children.

[@insiteandawareness3500]

The most abuse I've ever experienced is in workplaces. I'm learning how to not speak to people who I work with unless it has something to do with the work itself. My personal issues are not up for discussion anymore. It's a good way to keep myself protected.

[@ChristianStran]

This podcast just changed my entire life. Not even being hyperbolic. This is exactly what happened to me. My mother was an alcoholic who ignored that my step father was abusing me. I’ve never related to something more concisely than what I’ve heard today from Dr Ramani and Dr Clayton. Similarly to Dr Clayton, I am also a singer! I made it through SEVEN rounds of American Idol auditions as a teenager. I was trying so hard to make my voice be heard, because I felt so unheard.

[@rebeccachambers419]

“This is just how families are”. That was exactly what I thought until I learned about narcissism. Thank you so much.

[@janethomas78]

When My won mother would not believe me when I told her I was being abused-- Part of me died.

[@kav1t4]

This hits me so hard. I was sexually assaulted as a toddler by my mother's younger sister and my mother too chose and still chooses not to believe me and still is close to her sister, my abuser. I cannot grasp how these kinds of mothers exist...

[@kerrysmook452]

So sorry you went through that, just know that you are perfect just the way you are and non of it was or is your fault.

[@forgiven5919]

So sorry she didnt protect you.

[@jenniferlee7167]

My Mother had an incident with her stepfather who was a sexual abuser in the 1940s and 1950s. My grandmother told her well "you must have liked it" and that started a war that spanned several generations as my Grandmother was just glad to be married after a divorce from my mother's father in 1938. She found a "man" to take care of her and he did until he died in 1974. She allowed my mother and my step Aunt and even myself to be prey to this very sick man. To her dying day, my Grandmother could not admit as to what had happened and how it had destroyed all of us.

[@TMeyer-ge5pj]

​@@jenniferlee7167I'm sorry that happened to your family. I think it's crazy how some people live in denial. I had a situation when I was a teacher in a school that had a principal who just had no empathy for a situation involving sexual abuse. A student was verbally sexual toward me and the students in the class. He also would touch people inappropriately at school all the time, even me. He was big and I'm a woman, so there was nothing I could do. I repeatedly told the principal about it and she said things like "well just don't listen" and "that's not that bad" I tried to protect the kids from it as much as possible but I didn't know what to do. Nobody in the district would take it seriously. I tried reporting to the state, but its not taken seriously because the perpetrator is a minor. It was so bad. The kid even peed on people's stuff and all kind of terrible things. I have since quit, but I just cannot believe how many people denied that situation

[@LilCaseyCupcake]

Sending you the biggest warmest safest hug ❤

[@101hamilton]

It is amazing how these feelings persist throughout one's life. At 57, after years of introspection and therapy, and even with a thriving career, I still find myself overly sensitive to inquiries or critiques. The constant anxiety remains, and I've mastered finding things to worry about. My anxiety and perfectionism drove the one person who I love away from me after twelve years. The anxiety never ends. 😐

[@joannabrites9857]

I just found out what was wrong with me my whole life. People stay away from me like i have three heads. They sense something about me, neediness. I need the connection so desperately after going no contact with my dysfunctional family. I’m 59 and just learned two yrs ago I was the family scapegoat. In and out of rehabs and not one doctor recognized emotional family trauma. My farther raised four kids alone. He was never home he worked 3-11 so I endured sibling abuse from my older brother and sister. I feel like I’m never going to get well. I need someone to talk to but the so called trauma informed therapist I saw refused to let me talk about what happened to me. She said she only deals with the healing part. I needed to share my story with someone who believes me. I’m depressed all the time.

[@gobigirl1]

I hope you will continue to look for a good therapist who is willing to hear what you need to tell him or her. Many therapists do not understand personality disorders or the dynamics of narcissistic abuse. You deserve to work with someone who "gets it" and who is willing to hear you.

[@user-ot9bf1pw4f]

I am so sorry that you experienced this in your life. I am sending you a virtual hug, siblings can cause so much trauma and really change the course of our thinking. I decided to go no contact with my family of origin almost 1.5 years ago. My sister's are extreme mean and hateful. I was always the little sister that begged for their love and wanted nothing more than to be their best friend. Life is lonely at times but we are never really alone, the Lord is with us, he sees it all. May Jesus bless you and heal you! May he be with you. And may you feel his love and protection! You seem like a beautiful, empathetic person, be kind to yourself! ☺️🙏🌸

[@DeborahLaux]

Wow. Such a similar story even to the 4 kids and living w Dad. And abusive siblings. And the abusive therapists. Never go to a therapist who doesn’t specialize in Childhood Trauma. You will just get more damage. God bless you.

[@user-tx3fg2cg4t]

"She said she only deals with the healing part" Haha. What a "trauma-informed" therapist...

[@PatriciaPrater-mw2ul]

I feel your pain 😢. Sounds a lot like my story.

[@shellyn802]

This is my story too. One time my stepdad had wrestled me to the ground & wouldn't let me go. My mom stepped over me & ignored my cries for help. Then he gave me a hickey on my neck! I was maybe 11! Then I had to ride my bike down to get my hair cut & the stylist asked me what it was on my neck. I told her…. She did nothing. I felt gross & invisible.

[@Stretesky]

That should not happen to anyone at any age. I’m sorry. Please take your experience to help stand up for children. These are more common experiences than people discus. 💚💐

[@DelSunflower33]

😞

[@JenniferLaddArt]

I'm.so sorry you were treated that way. That was so wrong. Thank you for sharing ❤❤❤

[@jeu-de-paume]

God I can relate to so much in this story. The confusing grooming dynamic; telling myself that it's "actually not that bad" and that there is "nothing to report here"; the obsessive perfectionism that turned into compulsive self-betterment and degree-seeking (hoping that one day I'll feel 'enough', I'll feel worthy, that I'll be seen); the hyper-vigilance that turns into obsessive information gathering, keeping a close watch on everyone around me in order to learn their 'true intentions'; lack of trust, invalidation, all of it. It's hard to listen.

[@dianawelles1726]

Holy crap! Every word true

[@Jess-kn8vl]

CPTSD! ❤

[@dansasap]

Yep totally, same thing here. The ''nothing actually happened'' belief is absolutpely devastating... as crazy as it seems, I even remember thinking it would almost be easier if I HAD been raped or injured by my parents... because then I'd have something to tell, to justify how stressed and hurt I was. I was confronted with ''psychiatry specialists'' who didn't have the knowledge and confuse or hurt me even more, for a long long time. Finding the words to think about my family and myself was a very long process. So liberating!

[@godivademaus]

Your note made me do a bit of a self-appraisal of my own hyper-vigilance, just in general. It's good to do a honest self-appraisal from time to time. Helps keep me grounded. Thanks.

[@melissahiggins3079]

This was how I lived. How I felt my whole life.

[@kameshiam1674]

Wow! I thought i was evil and ungrateful. My mom would manipulate me and tell me that i had "hell" in me. It hurt me to finally admit to myself that i didnt like her. I was able to admit that she was wrong and that i didnt have a mother. I admitted to myself that i was an orphan. I stopped trying and then i started to heal. I started to get back to myself.

[@bitfreedom]

This is what I have had to do. I do not have a father. He is a dangerous, manipulative narcissist.

[@kameshiam1674]

@bitfreedom No, you don't have a father. But, you have space and opportunity to live a better life. Wake up everyday and try to see what you can do for YOU. Everyday find a happy place. Blessings to you.

[@margaretmiranda4882]

My father was physically abusive with me and my siblings for many many years ...as an adult I now have priblems with relationships and authirity figures ...I felt so alone ...there was gaslighting, draconian punishments... shaming ....it was a horrible childhood ...I have forgiven my father, but they are unresolved issues ...I also have 2 graduate degrees in psychology and I became an LPC But I suffer from depression often. 💔

[@godzillamanstreb524]

EMDR, neurofeedback treatments, cbt helped my husband much

[@christinecoombs3536]

Thank you for talking about narcissistic abuse in childhood and the family. So many you tube channels seem to focus mainly on abuse by a romantic partner. The trouble with families of narcissistic abuse is the siblings continue the cycle even though the parents have long since passed. I am the scapegoat child of 2 narcissistic parents and my sisters were their flying monkeys and continue the cycle.

[@soniahathaway1]

Same 🤗🤗

[@lizg5064]

Same😢

[@DeborahLaux]

Same also ❤

[@heathercampbell8625]

Me too. The devastation never stops.

[@jeu-de-paume]

The 'evil' part also hit me hard-I did not expect it, and was not prepared for the strong emotional response that it evoked in me. When I was 15, I remember asking my mentor (I was lucky enough to have a teacher at my school who took interest in me and became a real friend) if she ever thought about whether she's a good person. She laughed and replied that "no"; she never wonders about it, because "of course, she is a good person" and so am I, and it is "pointless to spend our resource on this kind of self-interrogation." I didn't say anything, but I was surprised and unconvinced: I FELT like a bad person, and I believed that the only thing keeping me from the ultimate fall from grace was the fact that I "kept myself in check"-i.e. kept questioning myself, interrogating my every thought and action from the standpoint of some under-articulated (in my own head) high moral standards. Later in life I experienced even more narcissistic abuse. When I finally reached out for help-and once again, was lucky enough to find a wise, kind and perceptive therapist/mentor-I quickly found out that one of the main sources of my suffering was the confusion I felt in my soul. One day I asked my therapist if I was the narcissist in my situation. There was a part of me that was absolutely terrified that I might be the cause of all the dysfunction in my relationship; that I cause my own suffering and the suffering of those around me-rather than the other way around. My therapist was very surprised by my question, and right away wanted to know why I had these thoughts. I know now that she reacted this way, because it is a common dynamic in narcissistic relationships that the abuser portrays the victim as the abuser. There was some of that in my situation, but mostly the readiness to peg myself as the narcissist came from the deeply ingrained habit of self-doubting and self-blaming, and the lifelong secret belief that I'm a "bad person."

[@jinxkrug7000]

I asked my therapist the exact same question. Fortunately, he answered me right away. NO, You have too much empathy and concern for others. He knew my ex, now deceased husband.

[@bookbeing]

I'm so glad you posted your comment here. You are describing what i struggle with . Am i really the reason everyone is unhappy? Am i really the awful one who will never be enough, no matter how hard i try, will the goalposts keep moving? Is my broken hearted grief the problem? Is their cruel contempt and scapegoating something i deserve?

[@freeduh5497]

My mom fits exactly as my abuser and I've been asking myself the same question, my part. Maybe it really is me. Try so much for sharing

[@MichelleMendezYouell]

Sisters, I’m beyond grateful for your courage and conviction to wake this world up from numbness to the complex traumatic abuse. Thank you 🙏🏼 it’s giving me more courage to speak up myself, and as a clinician of 20 years, I’m even more deeply thankful. Together- we rise. Together. ❤

[@danilaroche1156]

Dr Ramini is incredibly wise and compassionate.

[@mariamerrick8192]

Im listening to this and crying... Yes, they implanted the seeds that "I" was the evil one, the black sheep... The difficult one ..😮😢

[@insiteandawareness3500]

My father was abusive and he not only abused me but my mother and sisters as well. Most of my life I have picked abusive men and I know it's because of my childhood trauma. I'm trying to do everything I can to change my patterns. This is really what I needed to hear about complex PTSD is something I experienced in childhood and during abusive relationships with men and in the workplace.

[@adimeter]

OMG. This explains why when I was in college I would not go to the counselors for help. Instead I dropped out in my 3rd semester. I also ran away from my church as the pastor was appropriately getting closer to me. It was the intimacy thing. I was not used to that. So I ran away in both instances. I am learning so much about the preposterous ways I have acted in my life. Thank you Dr Ramani for this interview. Thank you so much Dr Ingrid for your vulnerability.

[@ericachitwood2465]

I can relate to the iced out phase. My dad has done this to me my whole life and my mom gets "jealous" if/when he talks to me again. And yes these are both my biological parents. My life has been very hard.

[@mrskmonster]

Wow. Wow. Wow. I just went through the experience of laying it all out in front of my family and being ignored and when you say that's more traumatizing than the original act, I feel that. And then to turn around and be desperate to embody some kind of perfection to run away from having a core of shame. Yes. Then someone says "you are gifted" and it actually just makes me sad to hear it because I don't believe it.

[@carolashlee8002]

My son passed away 12 years ago, leaving behind my 3 year old granddaughter. His widowed partner met & married a guy very quickly. Of course he put his best foot forward at the start & my Grandaughter was happy with her new Dad (stepdad) He has turned out to be the Golden Child Narcissist. He is putting my Grandaughter through hell & the Mother doesn’t protect her. Of course she is acting out, yet I feel powerless.

[@sandrashane677]

That's awful. I'm so sorry that is happening to her. That's heartbreaking.

[@pamelajeananderson80]

I am so sorry for your loss of your son. I can understand how powerless you feel. Be there to love her and show consistency. Pray. ❤

[@ravernastahl8963]

My mother was a narcissist. She never bonded with me from my babyhood. I was without my mother while we were in the same house. Very intelligent and articulate she was absolutely adored by her equally intelligent friends. Always posing she would engineer each situation to be the very center of attention she would hold forth charming constantly. Few were turned off by her

[@godzillamanstreb524]

I understand completely ❤

[@alisonodonnell1773]

They are good actors! So fake. People just don't understand what it's like to have a mother who can't stand you unless they've lived it themselves!

[@mday3821]

I was physically abused by my NM and no one noticed it because she always hit me on my back & legs. Not even my dad knew.😢

[@ginahailes1028]

Wow! Thank you so much I have such a similar story My father an alcoholic my mother a controlling narcissist who introduced many men into our lives when she left my father. Alway put last - my mothers happiness was her main priority. I became the mother in the family - Oldest child, looked after everyone I then married a man who loved bombed me he is a medical Doctor. Once children came the narcissism got worse, gaslighting , financial abuse. Unfortunately I started drinking at the age of 35 - quickly turned into alcoholism ( self medicating) Then I felt like a failure I am sober now but I denied what was happening to me I gaslit myself because after all I was an alcoholic. Perfectionism is me all over….. reinventing myself, many qualifications, Uber mother. I am grateful to know I am not the only one who developed an addiction - not many reveal that. Thanks ❤

[@gorunsko31]

@Gina Hailes Thank you for sharing. Have compassion for yourself. I am the oldest, a daughter of an alcoholic and a cruel, physically abusing, narcissistic mother. I was taking care of everyone too. Not a chance to ever learn you have a right to be loves just because...when you a parentified child. Lack of safety sets you up for fawning ( people pleasing & self abandonment). Keep up with self care. You deserve it. I hear you so well. I married a covert narcissist. I am beginning to see what I went through... Sending you love and peace.

[@ginahailes1028]

Thank you so much for the response Nice to know I’m not alone Take care and I find peace knowing others have walked a similar path and have found or a finding a way out

[@helenatroy33]

People would rather be abused than be alone. Fact Sometimes families are micro cults of which one needs deprogramming.

[@puvanagmail2196]

I was in an mentally emotionally abusive childhood, overt narcissistic husband, covert sister. When my ex husband knew that I was leaving him, he made sure he raped me enough and took videos to blackmail me and he literally said after of this, you wont be able to move on with anyone else. I did move on, but that ended fast as I later discovered he was a golden child in a narcissistic family. Despite all that, I'm still embarking on the journey of healing my self and creating awareness of narcissism and also educating teenager early on mental health and narcissism.

[@bellaluce7088]

33:10 "These are childhoods of terror." “Your brain doesn’t know fear from real.” This is such an important point. We are hardwired to be on alert once a threat is perceived, and the stress of that takes a massive physical and psychological toll regardless of whether "the worst" ever happens. Being made to feel afraid where you should feel safe happened! Being robbed of our birthright of trusting our intuition and knowing and speaking our truth happened! The damage of that can last a lifetime.

[@carlamurphy7541]

I felt it when she said I was like a ghost...you are a ghost when you are with a narcissist...my father made me a ghost

[@LiterallySerge]

Ingrid thank you for sharing your experience with everyone as a child who survived L Ron Hubbard‘s disgusting narcissistic exploitation of my innocence. I was able to understand and connect to your story, because all of these dysfunctional narcissist truly claw their victims with the exact same methods and it’s truly enlightening to see that our journeys are survivors of complex PTSD through the mirror, each other, dysfunctions achievements etc I am just glad to be on the other side of the rainbow even though my nervous system is still wired to feel like there are still storms looming that fear is something we must conquer on a daily basis, so thank you for that reminder

[@sweetlittlelightofmine]

I think you might want to interview me for my story with 2 narc parents. I'm 41 and its pretty severe and odd story. Deep psychic abuse

[@dmcsunshine1]

She explained a part I could never put in words… wow… when you’re invisible and all of a sudden you get an opportunity you just go for it ( that’s me ) I’m always hopeful it turns out GOOD despite the odds.

[@brenda44414]

The way both of you put all these feelings into words is so helpful to me. Explains so much thank you ❤

[@tatjanakecman7236]

Wow! I completely understand the sense of liberation when an abusive parent dies. I still cannot say in front of anyone in my extended family or some of my friends how free I felt when my mother died. I changed my job, started doing what I am on this Earth to do, and started doing well financially and, in a way, woke up to myself. In a way, subconsciously, I didn't dare to be myself even though I moved to a different continent.

[@bellaluce7088]

I'm glad you felt free! My first thought when I learned my father had died was "Now I don't have to be afraid anymore." Still waiting for the financial success, ; - ) but after cutting off a covert narc ex friend I did experience a surge of confidence and optimism. It's so good to have a forum where we can talk about these taboo subjects with people who get it. ❤

[@BeDifferent77]

It's spooky how Ingrids description of the hot and cold behavior reminds me of my dad. I desperately want a relationship with my dad...I've held onto glimmers of hope ...but I get repeatedly let down and hurt. Seeing it for what it is is important for me to invest in myself and stop the cycle of hurt. As parent to myself, I lovingly need to protect my inner child. That is the protection my mom, who knew my dad was abusive, should have given me and didn't. She KNEW his character. And yet she sent me off to live with him when I was 16. That's not okay!

[@esmereldatabitski8335]

Thank you for sharing your story. My husband experienced early childhood trauma and has left me after 40 years of what I thought was a good marriage. I am trying to understand the deep shame he feels, as he has never really shared his abuse experience. Very complex!

[@jinxkrug7000]

Dr. Ingrid, don't beat yourself up too much. The 1st time I hear the word Narcissist 10 years ago from a counselor, and the rest of these terms from Dr. Ramani 3 years ago! I am 73 and have survived 3 wicked Narcissists- my mother, my mother-in-law, and my now deceased ex of 42 years! But I have survived, mostly. 😥

[@rhondajoaquin4550]

Ingrid you are living proof that evil is just a dark shadow cast over you and all evil is manifested by ignorance. Dr. Ramini I tune in to you often and I much appreciate your wisdom and courage to be honest. Thank you both.

[@janeyun4128]

I listened and cried...

[@DrJT-ly3vr]

I love these 2 Championesses... What examples of human courageousness... Taking it on for the benefit of all... It goes so far beyond individual healing into the greatness within survivorship... Thank you both so very much...

[@viviennea.293]

ok. Where is the Part 2???? This is excellent. I am most disappointed not finding the Part 2.

[@AffirmativeArtsOnTheRoad]

I told my high school principal...the only person I ever tried to tell...I did it because I was in trouble for chronically "cutting class" ...by hiding in the girls bathroom crying all day long, or half the day, more days than not...I was in TROUBLE FOR CRYING. Ingrid's story of her stepfather sounds nearly exactly like mine...but mine went much further....with me, and also with his prior step daughter much worse than with me...she had his baby...I never tried to tell anyone else what was going on...after my principal responded to my story by demanding that I come to his church. He wanted to Pray my sins away...so that my step father would be freed from the temptation I was guilty of....I just gave up the idea of thinking that there was any such thing as help. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS SHOW, AND ESPECIALLY FOR THIS EPISODE DR. RAMANI...AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGEOUS, GENEROUS SHARING OF YOUR STORY INGRID! I GREW UP IN THE MOUNTAINS OF COLORADO TOO! I know how little help there was available there. I'm so sorry for what you went through...I am SO GRATEFUL AND GLAD that you KNOW IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT AND THAT YOU HAVE FOUND HEALING!

[@RawOlympia]

This is sick but the preacher makes it a total horror movie, of which I am learning is a genre more closely akin to documentary.

[@damieo8139]

I am sorry that this happened and that someone who names after Christ reacted in this way. I hope you are doing well now.

[@Standownevil]

OmTetraGramAton May all religions like that, die a fate similar to what you experienced! They need reprimanded!

[@donnahendrickson4442]

HEART CRUSHING WHEN YOUR MOTHER DOES NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU TELL HER 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭I am 58 and still working on this 👍👍👍👍👍with God 🙏🙏🙏She should acknowledge what it has done to my life…yesterday gaslighting took place, my mom told my sister SHE NEEDS COUNSELING…my sister told her if you text her that, l will take you to the airport myself right now and you can go home!!!!!! We were brainwashed by our mother and she doesn’t want to hear it at all!!!!!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏God bless you and l am sorry for your loss of family too, l have no mom anymore because I don’t have the energy for that 😢😢😢l forgive her🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@Lisa-of3kq]

Oh my!! I have been in motion for so long. I am so happy to hear someone else what I have been feeling. I have achieved and achieved with only a little relief!! Thank you!!

[@peacerun]

Dr. Ingrid Clayton’s book is a MUST read!! I was like you, Dr. Ramani, I could not put the book down! It was so healing, especially the last two chapters and the epilogue. I keep re-reading it. Brilliant masterpiece and life changing!

[@makaylahollywood3677]

I need to get this book. Dr. Ramani your videos, books and podcast have guided me after my mother died. I grew up handling so much. And, as much as i say i'm doing better...I struggle. Life is not the ame. My story has so many layers. I do remember my mother saying, I knew what your father was doing was wrong, but i was afraid of him". She didn't give me details. He was a narcissist, successful, alcoholism..abused mother. I am haunted by what I know, and what I don't know. I've been successful, it feels like everything exploded in slow motion.

[@pamelahicks2512]

This is my life. I can't believe others actually went this. I was only 7 and my mom was sadistic. My step dad was on hard drugs. So much trauma. Thank you. No one ever spoke this aloud.

[@butterflygirl2285]

IMO - I rarely had my mother's support. She chose to support her brother, and my sibling every time.

[@bereal6590]

The parent who doesn't listen, hear, validate, be there for you, imo is worse than the primary abuser. They add a layer of hurt and harm greater than the original. That's my experience. What they say in that moment is 'I care more for my own wellbeing than I do yours'. As a child and an adult child I could have understood, taken on board a reasonable explanation of why they weren't there and why they added their own brand of toxicity BUT gaslighting blaming shaming and guilt tripping has to be the most selfish thing a parent can do. It's in that moment I realised this is not love as I love and this person makes je feel physically ill

[@donnahendrickson4442]

That’s what I want “validation” that it happened and I didn’t make it up… my mom will NOT speak with us 3 daughters about it (sexual abuse) and l believe my brother too …. Didn’t know about narcissistic people but she’s EXACTLY what you described 😢😢😢😢I went to church to give it to God🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙏✝️🙏✝️🙏✝️🙏Thank you for sharing your story 👏👏👏👏👏👏God bless you 🙏🙌✝️🙏🙌✝️🙏🙌✝️🙏🙌✝️🙏🙌✝️

[@user-wb3qo5mh9w]

Girl, same. 😭 I lost hope that this mother wound will ever heal, but I no longer feel shame when I have a breakdown, I feel it and I let it go and go on with my life. Still a long way to go. Thank you. Its nice to feel less alone. ❤❤

[@altaerker5089]

Loved this podcast by two captivating women! Thank you both for shining light on my own suppressed experience with narcisism. My story is even worse than yours Dr. Clayton's and I commend you on your early escape. I don't know your story Dr. Ramani and would love to hear about it sometime. May we all heal the invisible wounds that continue to fester long after the events that tore open our young souls. God bless all the strong women who are not just surviving but thriving!

[@annemccarron2281]

I can identify with not getting the proper training in narcissism. I received my MSN as a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner. There was little quality training, plus I was taught that personality disorders are NOT mental illnesses. I asked repeatedly what is the difference. I was NEVER given an appropriate answer. Narcissistic personality disorder is most definitely a mental illness. If you lived with it for 40 years, you KNOW without question it is a severe aberration from healthy mental behavior. I don' t care WHO says it is not a mental illness, IT IS! Let's not minimize the pain these people cause others by implying it is in any way, shape, or form a healthy way of relating to others! There are a lot of mentally unhealthy people in the psych field who really don't help people.

[@frankiethedoxie]

Thisnis what my daughter has been suffering for the last 6 years. I feel so disappointed in myself.

[@aastha6930]

Hope you can help her recover

[@carleenjackman3814]

Had to bury my abusive mother on my 40th birthday. As they lowered her casket into the ground, I finally got to scream at her (silently in my head) of how much I hated her, how happy I was that she was dead, and how she purposely tried to ruin every birthday, but how this one was the icing on the cake (no pun intended). I told her she had just given me the best birthday present ever. I no longer hate her (have even asked for her forgiveness) but I do keep inviting narcissistic people into my life for some reason, so healing remains a life long journey it seems.

[@heathercampbell8625]

Wearing a black eye from my dad didnt result in me being taken to the hospital or even a doctor. I was told i was the problem by our church leaders because my parents were good church people. The second time i had 2 black eyes, possibly from a broken nose. Still nothing. We moved some months later and to this day they still say it wasnt as bad as i make it out to be or that it never happened. That was 10th grade in high-school. We moved 3 more times my junior year (11th grade). Being the scapegoat meant ny own sisters repeated everything my parents told everyone else. Its all my fault, there is something inherently wrong with me. The abuse had been going on my entire life. Every time it got too bad, we moved. I have no history, no home, and no one i know any longer who knows any of this. Its like i dont exist and never did. This hit too hard, but im glad i listened. Thank you for making this video.

[@nicolecarnevale3226]

My best friend has an extensive trauma history. She was physically abused, and it was life threatening on two occasions. At 14 she ran away to a 25 year old savior. This statutory rapist held her at g++point at 16 and died leaving her screaming and in shock for 3 days in a hospital. At 26 she dated a man working in her home. The company neglected to inform the family he was on work release. She was victim number 8. She met a friend, a tiny woman with two children, and stayed with her for a weekend. This situation turned into a full kidnapping which ended in a standoff. Things improved and she married. He was controlling and probably narcissistic. They separated and while separated she began being stalked by a crazy woman whom pulled her IP address. This woman had a man threaten her and installed malware in her bathroom as her new home was being constructed. A hair product order was changed from a safe straightener to a caustic one. She was maimed. This psycho damaged her car and property gang stalking ( I guess this is the only fun it has in life), threatened to alter medical data and biomedical tests ( the crazy stranger claimed she had no friends and hacked as well as stalking utter strangers ) and followed through twice. My friend never met this person. Lastly she has ensured a year of DEW attacks, for which people whom don’t understand the technology don’t research it, they just chose to not believe her. Sound far fetched? I assure you, this isn’t a hoax or delusion. She went through total Hell just trying to escape abuse, date a cute skilled laborer and business owner, and trusting a 101 pound woman, and her 6 year old child to hang and swim with, and the stalker and DEW year long problem…Well she doesn’t even know this woman. My friend does stick up for herself, but she is a bit blunt and an utter disdain for interpersonal criminals. If the DEW doesn’t kill her, could she learn assertive communication and to relax and love life again? She was so much fun prior to this stalking.

[@francesbernard2445]

What a coincidence. Once while getting less expensive dental treatment in a dental school the student treating me there informed me the school recieved the wrong set of X-rays for me from the dental office where my ex used to go to as well that I had to go for dental treatment help at when pandemic rules had shut down the school. Because it only happened once or twice there I thought nothing of it. For awhile after I sensed that an investigation was taking place there at the time as to why that sort of thing was happening probable to more than only me. I was only grateful that dental students there knew their stuff well enough to spot the error right away.

[@Phredmarie]

I became homeless at 50 due to a narcissistic marriage ending The only way they do and jumped into the arms of a family member who unbeknownst to me at the time was is a was is a narcissist. I am finally on my own two feet again at 57 and trying to heal. For the first time I've finally told her you do you I'll do me Peace out. She's currently in the stage of trying to reel me back in after slandering me online. Which I'm not worried about the online slander because I have my own people and they know what she's about. But I only got this far because you guys do what you're doing right now.❤❤❤

[@MsLisa551]

This really hit home. As my therapist said to me.. You weren't suppose to here. My dad committed suicide when I was 7, and he was abusive, my mom and myself. My mom was an alcoholic and a narcotic abuser. She had the bf move in,, that's a story too. My mom was physically abusive when she drank. Over the years I was sexual abused 3 x times. My mom was not present emotionally and was not around much. I survived and was not on drugs or alcohol. I lived with relatives from age 15.. my mom just wasn't capable. I was married for 23 yrars ,,to childhood friend who was controlling, narcissistic traits, and we were both codependent. He was also abandoned and sexual abuse took place in his childhood. We had one child and we are both only children. She watched the dynamic and had learned the system. Her father is still controlling , but now it's her. I'm on the outside feeling like I failed my daughter. She has fallen into this pattern. I waited too long to leave and she and I both paid the price.

[@juniperfall]

Phenomenal, thank you both so much for sharing these incredibly freeing insights.

[@blssed2bme1234]

Omg! I need to hear part 2 😢

[@pamelahicks2512]

I love that she switched it up on him. You have to outsmart them.

[@learning2cme207]

Ingred brought up an interesting point that struck home… The sense of easing you feel when a person who perpetuated narcissistic abuse dies.

[@juliadplume3097]

It took me decades see that the complex traumatizes were still traveling within me and how those experiences still played out. A couple of years ago I decided to stop and figure out why I kept running in to the same horrible personalities regardless of how much I tried to avoid them. Not recognizing them until it was too late was part of the problem and so was not taking a deeper look into it all. Wondering who each of the more current individuals reminded me of from my past and spending quality time writing about them bore much fruit and lead to mental clarity.

[@anar802]

I wonder, if it is possible to heal without talking to another person (friend, professional, etc.), just by reflecting, learning and making changes?

[@aastha6930]

Yes to a great extent yoga and breath work ! May you find ur way 🙏

[@dansasap]

''It wasn't that bad''... I know that's a distorsion that comes from knowing my abuser spared me the worst... and yet it doesn't make the ''slightly less horrible'' reality ''ok''. It is still abuse. And it's such a hard thing to wrap your head around because what you do feel is relief. Threats are a very real kind of abuse. They hurt you by silencing and shaming you.

[@annastone5624]

WOW - pendulum .. between wanting to be seen & wanting to avoid being see. . Because BOTH WERE ABUSIVE!! Thankyou Dr Ramani - you’ve just explained the primary baffling dynamic of my life 🙏🏻

[@mirm28]

Maslow hierarchy of needs - my most important need was SAFETY...I don't understand how no teacher questioned it. so sad, I'm totally lost with my core believe or just the constant confusion as to who the hell I am. I have complex PTSD and wow, this is going to be tough.

[@lb1798]

So sad...so enlightening!!

[@Julie-7605]

My older brothers used me as a punching bag, literally. When I went to my mother for help, she told me they do it because they love me.

[@susanmercurio1060]

I didn't know the word for what my mother was doing to me (so I finally just blurted out a description of what she did to my therapist). At last I learned the word was gaslighting.

[@MystiqueHawkins]

Telling my story. Tears in my eyes . Lump in my throat. Raw agony jn so many spheres on so many spectrums

[@annastone5624]

IF ONLY when therapists talk about trust issues - they’d SPELL OUT that the real trust issue is one of not trusting OURSELVES, our feelings and perceptions. I wasted years trusting people more than I felt safe to.. because I understood I was someone who needed to ‘trust more’ What a disaster that was & left me a shed load more trauma to deal with….

[@andreaarias2085]

Thank you both for sharing, so we can relate from our own experiences of narcissistic abuse.

[@adimeter]

Wow! Ingrid make a powerful start. I already know (15min in) I will be looking for her book.

[@claudias.9043]

Only 9 minutes and already know that this is amazing 🙏🌟🌠🙏

[@sharonsaunders6507]

Ingrid sounds like exactly what I’m going through…at least in the first three minutes

[@prettynena3102]

When will be available the second part? This hit so hard home 😢

[@Becoming_undone]

I experienced the same type of situation, except in my case my stepfather did take it further when I was 14. I spent the next 25 years making the same bad relationship choices thinking I was doing better this time just for it to end up blowing up within a year. I also had 3 children with 3 different fathers and have struggled financially, because I never finished anything. The couple of times I would start school I would quit after a few months because I would lose interest or I would meet a guy or I would find a job that was the same as the major that I was going to school for, so why do I need to go to school and then wouldn’t up losing that job. So now at 42 years old I amin the process of starting my freelance online coaching business and have a huge heart for being supportive for other women that have experience the same things that we have. I have zero support system and my mother is still with her husband and we have been a strange for three years now. I realize that I blame myself for the sexual abuse, and had convinced myself that I was to blame because he was the fourth man that my mother had brought into our lives by that point that had molested me. Listening to your story I hear so much familiarity. I’m so grateful for resources like you to where I have been able to have access to so much helpful information and it has been paramount in my healing. I cannot afford to go to therapy or the doctor. And I’m working seven days a week two jobs just to keep a roof over mine and my son’s head. I’m struggling with the fact that I realize that I wasted my life away. Now at 42 years old, I feel like time is not as abundant as it has been before and certainly too late for me to start from scratch with nothing more than a high school diploma.

[@RachelSDay1982]

I went back to school at 48 years old to go into teaching. It's never too late. Do what you enjoy, and you will grow as a person and gain more confidence. That makes it worth it. God bless!!

[@dianawelles1726]

P I'm listening to this now for the second time. Crying my eyes out. So grateful to have survived this madness and still have a functioning body to live in. Just incredible. Having it in print is amazing. Hearing it again was just as impactful if not more the second time. I am so grateful and I never thought I would ever come out of that mindset that was mashed into me from conception. Omg. Thank you

[@vivianworden2706]

I need to tell my story. I made an appointment with a counselor. ❤

[@fruhlingsfrisch6205]

He "confessed" to her because he hoped he could run away with her. Hoping for her consent.

[@kkey4700]

Thank you for talking about this! People need this information...I didn't hear about Narcissistic abuse until 2023.

[@BodilWandt]

Such good conversation between two women I admire. I can't find part 2 of it though. Where should I look?

[@haPPySundAy970]

Best picture ever!!!!🙏♥️

[@leefossett5777]

The more I learn about narcissism, the stronger I get, the more I wonder how many people have given up in this abuse and ended their lives because I have wanted it to just stop and the futility of blowing the whistle.

[@nearylanghans3366]

Thank you so much for sharing. ❤

[@Phredmarie]

I know that a lot of habits started before I even have memory but I also remember when I was a teenager being aware of deciding certain things that I would not express or allow others to see in me like never expressing jealousy. Thing is when you don't express emotions like that a whole bunch of others go with it. There was a period where I didn't cry or laugh between like 15 years old and 25. I won't talk about my body count during that period.

[@iw9338]

Yes, every time I told an adult it was minimized. I was told I misunderstood

[@theventingcorner]

My story is so similar to hers. It's devastating. Thank you for sharing!

[@Phredmarie]

Kind of like Ingrid talks about writing her story and then going back over learning about this stuff I have kind of done the same. And I go back and realize on a whole another level why I did the things I did and how others could see it when I couldn't. I hate being 57 years old and learning these things.

[@kkey4700]

Wow so similar to me it’s so erie…I also had alcoholic mother..and weirdo covert step father…narcissistic abuse…toxic family system. Step dad behaviour exactly….sooooo weird …need therapy. My mother would also say she needed to get a divorce...leave him....but then then later that day or the next...she would say nothing. He had her trapped.

[@francesbernard2445]

I remember being a cub leader once at a camp during which time a father parent and girl friend came along with his son who belonged to the cub pack. I cannot remember for sure if there was a female child along too at the time. All I remember is how some of us leaders were put off about how we were supposed to mind his children so he could make time with his new girl friend and so then after the cub camp was over they would get all of the credit for being the better set of parents during interim custody of his children during his divorce. Back then there was no girls participating in scouts during regular weekly meetings and there were very few female scout leaders keeping their eyes open there too. Weird how no one questions it when a father takes up with a soon to become step mom however when then their estranged wife while being expected to take it all with no help from any other adult if she moves on with another romantiic partner then all of a sudden she is the talk of the town. Is that only because being pregnant and birthing a baby and then nursing a new born infant takes up a lot of time and physical energy that many young women consider when thinking of dating a man estranged from his wife or what? Or is it because a lot of married men feel more secu there to have that choice to find a girl friend to help him with image during a custody dispute just in case his own wife asks him for a divorce too and so they don't bring their resentment home for it to be that to be talk of the town too? All I know is that children should not be getting treated as only an employee public relations person too who is upholding the image of their family name while their parents are not getting along.

[@susanjones3513]

Excellent, excellent podcast. Thank you both so much for the work you do. Grateful....🙏

[@marina-li3tk]

sorry anyone can tell me how can I get to the second episode of this video on you tube?, I do t seem to see it thks everyone love from Mexico.

[@francesbernard2445]

I remember being a cub leader once at a camp during which time a father parent and girl friend came along with his son who belonged to the cub pack. I cannot remember for sure if there was a female child along too at the time. All I remember is how some of us leaders were put off about how we were supposed to mind his children so he could make time with his new girl friend and so then after the cub camp was over they would get all of the credit for being the better set of parents during interim custody of his children during his divorce. Weird how no one questions it when a father takes up with a soon to become step mom however when then their estranged wife while being expected to take it all with no help from any other adult if she moves on with another romantiic partner then all of a sudden she is the talk of the town. Is that only because being pregnant and birthing a baby and then nursing a new born infant takes up a lot of time and physical energy that many young women consider when thinking of dating a man estranged from his wife or what? Or is it because a lot of married men feel more secu there to have that choice to find a girl friend to help him with image during a custody dispute just in case his own wife asks him for a divorce too and so they don't bring their resentment home for it to be that to be talk of the town too? All I know is that children should not be getting treated as only an employee public relations person too who is upholding the image of their family name while their parents are not getting along.

[@Naydeen53]

Great episode!!! Just a question why isn’t cptd a recognized dx in the dsm? Ptsd treatment is very different for someone who has endured years of abuse in childhood

[@Naydeen53]

I have CPTSD. It was treated like a chemical imbalance with many medications. I was not born depressed or anxious. I was conditioned to be depressed and anxious. Medication can be dangerous. Trauma is stored in the body. Mine was in my jaw and I clenched and grinded my teeth ever since I was kid. Those medications are harmful. Specifically SSRIs. Those medications caused me to clench and grind even more which in turn destroyed my teeth. I have been without teeth for 16yrs (I am only 52). I paid the price for the lack of proper care!!! Having no teeth has left me profoundly isolated (hmmm just like childhood) and my insurance that I was granted this disability of what they call PTSD - does nothing to help me and denies me dental (hmmm neglect just like childhood) leaves me in a endless loop of being retraumatized and with no path forward. (Just like childhood I could not escape)

[@Bianca-sw5id]

My stepdad is the abuser in my circumstances too. He is unbelievably emotionally abusive

[@writeousrhema]

Amazing interview