Why do companies insist employees return to the office??

[@jonathan6480]

I got fired for refusing to return to the office in September. I got a fully remote job that is $25k more in November. Hold the line!

[@RichGilbert]

I love this story! It really makes no sense to go back to an office in many cases

[@jonathan6480]

@@RichGilbert Thank you! I'm debating moving to either TX/FL. The rents in FL are insane. I can't wait to leave Philly.

[@RichGilbert]

@@jonathan6480 Both are popular choices! I did my MBA in Philly - Nice for a few years. TX/FL would probably be the places I'd consider too. Or Idaho for skiing if I could work remote. :)

[@jonathan6480]

@@RichGilbert Did you go to U Penn? You should look up videos of Kensington on here - there are literal zombies there now. I'm debating between Dallas and Jacksonville. Rent in Dallas seems more affordable.

[@RichGilbert]

@@jonathan6480 I did to to Penn. Good experience. Dallas vs Jacksonville. I've never been to Jacksonville, but they both sound nice! Friendly people in both places.

[@KH-ct4zr]

I feel that face-to-face meetings and conversations sometimes help, but working in the office is really distracting and unproductive when I try to focus, and commute is simply a waste of time and money.

[@KH-ct4zr]

However just as you mentioned, if a boss wants to monitor what the team members are doing, coming to office becomes compulsory.

[@RichGilbert]

Totally agree with your comments, K H. I often wonder, if people want to do face to face meetings or conversations, it's easy to meet at a cafe or a temp office somewhere to have the conversation.

[@rickarnold7778]

With skyrocketing gas prices, the costs for commuting are greater than ever. All the more reason to implement WFH or at the very least, some type of hybrid approach.

[@JWZRD23]

I purposefully strike up conversations with my manager that last 30+ minutes and aren’t productive for our current work and then take my 1 hour lunch bc this is what the company wanted 😁

[@PabloTBrave]

If people can work from home then there is obviously no need for most of the managers and that upsets managers .

[@RichGilbert]

Thanks for the comment, Paul! There is clearly no need for most managers. I'd argue most people in most corporations are simply someone wanting to get headcount and justify their existence

[@stormkat4936]

💯

[@pujikristina2186]

I agree. Many managers realize they have nothing to do at home and nobody to control so they feel bored and useless.

[@jackcarraway4707]

It's all about control. We the people need to send a message that WFH is the future.

[@RichGilbert]

This is likely going to happen. If companies can figure out that they are getting good work from people at home, I'd suspect they'd be happy to remove the big office leases. I know I was when I started my company.

[@jonathan6480]

If these companies cared about the environment as much as they say they do, they wouldn't make us commute.

[@RichGilbert]

Short answer. They don’t. Greenwashing is just to make you think they care about the environment. Paper straws anyone? 😃

[@jonathan6480]

@@RichGilbert Bingo, just like how they take their pride flags down on July 1st.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Partly because of a legacy baby-sitter managerial mindset that is often spun as "office culture" - you can have a company culture with remote workers too - we've adapted already. Also, I think managers, which are often more extroverted, thinks everyone _wants_ to be in the office like they do. Let's be honest - the old office culture was often pretty toxic. Why revive that? I'm over giving up 2-3 hours of my life just so someone can justify having a pointless job? Nope. Not anymore. This isn't new - many tech companies have been remote-first since before the world ended - that's why we had tools like company VPNs, online video services, chat tools and remote IT support. It all existed before COVID and that's why many companies were successful in the remote-only model when forced to do so. The problem is that it reminded folks how much precious time was wasted for soul-crushing Dilbertopia. If employers are concerned about unproductive employees - fire the lazy bums and hire folks with a good work ethic that don't need baby-sitting services and pay them accordingly. Everyone wins (except lazy bums). I still get plenty of recruiters reaching out to me about remote positions - and I'm very blunt with the ones that want on-site.

[@RichGilbert]

Thanks for the comments, Jason! very true and I totally agree. There are so many jobs that are "marginal" in their effectiveness that seeing those people in the office is the only way they can figure they're doing ANYTHING. Most managers have no clue what their team does and just want a big team for their own career.

[@tomtensecretlanguage9273]

For my corporation, buts-in-the-seats is to protect its commercial real estate investments and clients' investments!

[@gennyjustdownthelane8967]

Absolutely makes no solid sense for most cubicle workers. At all.

[@RichGilbert]

Yeahhhhh…. Every time I hear “cubicle”, I think of the movie Office Space… soul-sucking environment.

[@ThrivingwithOneil]

I’ve been remote for almost 20 years as a people leader and individual contributor. The cost in time and money traveling to and from work adds up. Living in states where you have to pay income taxes because of your employment. The list goes on and on.

[@Meritumas]

Many of m friends agreed to start coming to office 1-2 a week. Most of workers visit the office purely for social reasons. Chat, 2h lunch with colleagues, coffee and tea breaks. Zero productivity. But that’s what mangers wanted: improved corporate culture!

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

They are refilling their asset, that big empty building, they need to sell. You're paying for doing it.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Yeah, for the past 15 years - I would work out a day or so to work from home just so I could get my work done because being in the office is so unproductive - especially if you work in a field that requires high levels of attention and focus. As a software engineer - we have this concept known as "the zone" which means you are hyper-focused on your work and blissfully coding away. The moment someone walks up to your desk and asks you a question - you're out of the zone. It takes another 15-20 minutes to get back into the zone. Then factor in coffee breaks, lunch, bathroom breaks, and the worst - meetings - and most of your day is unproductive. While at home, I get very few interruptions to the point I have to set reminders to get up and stretch. Going from 1-2 days at home to fully remote was a game changer.

[@RichGilbert]

I've experienced that breaking out of the Zone many times. It's so difficult to get back in to where you were in your code. And the office is full of nonsense distractions

[@rickr530]

I love it when managers schedule 8 hours of back to back meeting to talk about work, and then the next morning there is a status update meeting to check on your progress. "Talking about work" is work for managers -- they don't always understand the concept of *doing* work.

[@728huey]

Part of it has to do with micromanagement by middle managers, but the bigger factor has to do with justifying paying their long term office leases they signed before the pandemic. In fact, one of the reasons some people have been screaming about how the country is going into a recession as to do with the upcoming crash in commercial real estate; particularly office and retail space.

[@RichGilbert]

Yeah. I'm sure that's a big part of it. Companies don't like their investments going to waste. Thanks for the comment!

[@simeonovs4443]

Nice video man, and cheers, cuz I am not going back to office again. Remote working since 2018 babyyyyy ^^

[@RichGilbert]

Good to hear it! I've been remote more or less since 2002, and there is NOOOO reason to go back! Thanks for the comment!

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

So many angry people have been brought back to my giant office. They missed nothing! The water-cooler gossip, the office politics, the commute, the overpriced food at the deli nearby. The real reason: Real Estate. That giant building is worth nothing now. They will refill it then sell it, or crooked accountants will revalue it as a useful asset.

[@NDGOJericho580]

Sending people back to the office doesn't make since when they're pushing climate bills. If they want climate change policies, they need to keep in mind that forcing people to commute to and from work means more automobiles using fuel and resources(whether it be electric or gasoline there's always an expense). And you notice it's always CEOs that want people to show up. In my experience, the employees are being used. As long as the employees are doing their jobs, managers, supervisors and uppermanagement can sit back and chill.

[@RichGilbert]

@skyler Allison Very good points. Going back to the office does increase fossil fuel use and employees are indeed being used. I hope there is some alternative where companies put employees first. I hear some companies doing it but not many.

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

Who is lobbying the ceos to make this strange call?

[@Ricocase]

No tax write off for building unless it's used.

[@RichGilbert]

That makes sense

[@mikekay3313]

Companies don't like crashing commercial real estate values and empty leases on their bottom line..

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

Bingo. No surprise that people shouting loudest are the real estate owners, finance companies, Wall St, Goldman Sachs etc

[@arthuslim]

Here, we are "punished" for efficiency. If i can complete a job in half a day instead of a given 8 hours, i need to stay till late, pretend to work, due to governement regulation and company's policy. I cannot leave early to be with my family or pursue my passion. Talk about work-life balance bs, which i never believe.

[@rsls101]

As a middle manager I am pro-remote. But unfortunately I am 5 days a week on site. Last week our office was allowed to work remotely for the holiday week. We surpassed our quotas and productivity was way up. We’re back now as upper management mandated, productivity down. They said “it’s the eggnog hangover 😂 “. What does the customer want from us as a company? Us to have damn culture or get stuff done with high productivity? I’m a manager not a babysitter. We have slack, Activetrak, zoom, asana, Dialpad Salesforce to help us track productivity in a data perspective

[@RichGilbert]

I've heard this story by so many of my friends. Sales people, tech companies, etc. They are told they have to go back to the office for various reasons, but productivity and morale dumps. So do you have to stay in the office going forward?

[@rsls101]

@@RichGilbert yes unfortunately and definitely morale dipped. To try to regulate morale they try to throw in “Free Bagels” or Themed Wednesdays like last week was “Flannel Wednesdays” 🤦‍♀️. It doesn’t help.

[@RichGilbert]

@@rsls101 Free Bagels. How tone deaf can you get? sigh....

[@j01150126]

Before covid I only had to go on-site as needed. After covid an extra focus was put coming back to work. Our campus is hundreds of acres. We always met on Zoom before that by Skype. Now I am forced to come in 3 days a week, I lose 1 hrs of sleep and 2 hrs in commute time. At work, maybe a few people show up because of global offshift meetings. We are not financially independent. I see those mandates imploding for companies with Millenials and Zoomers. I am Gen X and it's ridiculous. We make them rich, they don't make us rich.

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

@@j01150126 leave

[@groundhog-plays]

Because share holders and how intertwined corporate real estate is into corporations. Either from them owning it directly, owning REITs, corproate real estate investors also invest in companies. Look at Blackrock/Vanguard who own massive voting shares and would want a return to office.

[@TonyZmex]

They want to reduce cost by “forcing” people who have moved to another place to work remotely to quit their job

[@RichGilbert]

This is a change that will take a while to happen. Probably with newer companies - just like Google brought in "Free food"

[@NorCalDudeBJJ]

Be careful what you wish for. If you believe your position can be completely done remotely, then your compensation will need to be competitive with highly educated people in developing countries that are willing to work for $5/hr.

[@ianhart356]

I work at a manufacturing facility. I need to be there to do the work. It is one real benefit of my otherwise low level job. Anyone who proves they can get the job done without coming to the workplace will eventually be replaced by someone physically located in a lower cost environment. Don't be surprised when it happens. There are many clever, hardworking, cheap workers around the world.

[@NorCalDudeBJJ]

​@@ianhart356Exactly

[@alexsdb9712]

Not true, and you mustn't support that side or argument but instead by on the side of the people/citizens and progess. It's all about legality. Companies must have a legit base (address, residency, filing), and that's why it's linked with taxes. A company will not have that if outsourcing these remote jobs. The other factor is security and privacy.

[@NorCalDudeBJJ]

​@@alexsdb9712You can say you're against it, but saying it's not true is ignoring reality and burying your head in the sand.

[@alexsdb9712]

@NorCalDudeBJJ My statement never said it's not true or that it is true. It's about the act, the principal, the laws and the consequences. Best of luck. A word to the wise.

[@scrapbrainsinc]

I agree. Last week my co-worker was traveling to another state for a software integration event. Since I work remote I didn't really have a problem getting up early to support him, or getting on later to deal with issues. If I worked in an office, there is no way I could of have been easily available. Plus knowing Skype/Zoom or whatever makes sharing something so much more easier than having to find an office in the building. Why is every conference room booked to 2 years in advance and you always had to play plug in the HDMI, and get the tv to work game for 20 minutes. I don't get why more people aren't fighting for more guaranteed rights for remote work (Yes if the job can be done that way)

[@RichGilbert]

The 20 minute work with the tv. Yessss I remember those days. You bring up another point in separation between work and homelife which was a big challenge for many people the past few years. I think the occasional shift is fine but if you’re expected to be on call for 18 hours a day you should be compensated

[@gusvonstupen1897]

To justify their office rental expenses.

[@RichGilbert]

I think that's part of it - at least in the short term...

[@IMPULSOESTATICO]

Amen!!!

[@RichGilbert]

👍

[@rickr530]

The sad thing is that many of us quietly worked remote and hybrid for years before the pandemic but that is now harder to float because of the massive return to office battle. Remote work has been a part of my life since 1999 and was never a problem before, but now I'm treated like I just joined the rebel alliance. HR also invented new rules and job classifications to try to punish us for working and living more efficiently. Corporations hire people for their creativity and intellect and then immediately force them to regress to the mean.

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

someone "owns" those buildings..they are powerful lobbyists.

[@MemoryDealer]

Maybe it was the plan all along.

[@radavisjr41]

This message right here is the new red pill.

[@Goodmedalist]

Property - the law allows corporate wealth to be secured in real estate, and it cannot stand empty. That's mostly why. Then there are some individuals abusing work from home at their colleagues and supervisors' expense.

[@brandonfouts4074]

I feel like the pandemic has empowered employees and owners do not like the power shift

[@JohnTube2K]

this video true even today in 2024

[@cgmakery9650]

Small er towns want businesses back in down town so the city has people in these areas.

[@RichGilbert]

It could be a great boom for smaller towns!

[@didafm]

Yeah i know what you mean. But you gotta understand people want you to he physically present. Would you be willing to take a 30% paycut for work from home? Cuz you could argue you already pay rent and they no longer need office space

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Write more lines of code - fine - I can write a Python script to generate millions of lines of code per day. Now, give me a raise! LOL

[@RichGilbert]

Exactly! LOC (Lines of Code) is NOT a good proxy for ANYTHING meaningful

[@joshuakaeble7810]

You don't have to go back. You could start your own business right? If you did that, you could work remotely as much as you want, right?

[@sunnyboi1221]

I want return to office because I know people in India and China can do a far better job than Americans for little pay.

[@RichGilbert]

They work hard for sure. But Americans have a lot going for them - both in an office and at home. Also we are likely witnessing the end of the huge globalization that was so key in the latter half of the 20th century. More work is coming back to the US instead of going abroad.

[@NikosKatsikanis]

lol

[@panjacek6674]

Have you worked with Indians? If they were so great, everything would have gotten outsourced there.

[@brianclark5583]

They need to be in the office with a manager cracking the whip. That is how you get shit done. Just like the rest of us that aren't in the tech industry. Remote workers aren't working. They're doing everything but that. Being in the tourism business i can't wait until they go back to work so I can get my life back.

[@RichGilbert]

With knowledge / tech work it's different. I've been a carpenter, ambulance driver, programmer, consultant, and manager. Working more or less remotely since 2002. And I can say definitely that it is very possible to be more effective at your job without a proper office. Also, there's a lot of time wasted just being in the office environment, commute, etc.

[@greglyons2526]

But they are not going back. Things have changed

[@davefischer2344]

2:27 no one cares XD lol

[@RichGilbert]

Cares about office culture? It agree. 😀

[@erikstonesifer7326]

RESIST! Laptop? Tick. Internet? Tick. Phone? Tick. 120v available? Work from Anywhere!

[@RichGilbert]

Haha. I couldn’t have said it better myself! :)

[@THEPOSSUMNUTS]

People forget that they are employees of these companies. It’s their business and their rules. The entitlement is unbelievable. The layoffs are an effective way of removing the noncompliant employees. Employers need to have immediate access to employees for efficient information dissemination. Each layoff is entertaining

[@RichGilbert]

Fair comment. On the other hand, with technology today employers have more instant access to employees than they ever have - whether at a desk or at home. Can't information dissemination be done by a video call?

[@THEPOSSUMNUTS]

@@RichGilbert that’s assuming the employee doesn’t deliberately avoid contact and is disciplined enough to conduct work for the amount of hours they are being paid for. I have seen many excuses why meetings couldn’t be conducted via VTC. The work environment provides the resources where work can be accomplished without those excuses.

[@panjacek6674]

​@@THEPOSSUMNUTSif an employee is avoiding contact then he should be removed from organisation, it's simple really.