Why do I say that atheists tend to be gullible? 10 Qs with Mike Winger (Ep 31)

[@sarahfaith316]

Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference: 0:00 - Intro 1. 0:07 {Are Atheists Gullible?} Why do I say that atheists tend to be gullible? 2. 28:08 {Rapture: Do We Have a Choice?} Assuming a rapture, are we irresistibly taken, or is it a choice to leave with Him? I ask irrespective of Calvinistic irresistible grace. Luke 17: 31-36 seems to indicate both. 3. 34:09 {The Multiple Beings of Polytheistic Religions} If God is one being and three persons (one “WHAT” and three “WHOs,” what would two beings of gods look like in false religions? How would those beings be differentiated in a way that the Trinity is not? 4. 40:00 {About Natural Selection} Regarding natural selection, I recently had a class on that topic in college and was a bit confused on how we, as Christians, should approach that topic with others. 5. 44:37 {No Persecution = No Godliness?} 2 Tim 3: 12 says, “All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” I’m not being persecuted. Does this mean I’m not living a godly life? 6. 49:56 {King Nebuchadnezzar - Saved?} I was wondering your thoughts on King Nebuchadnezzar. Do you think he was saved, based on Daniel 4? 7. 1:00:17 {Does Satan Always Need God’s Permission?} Does Satan have to come to God any time he messes with us? I have a friend using Job as proof that Satan needs permission to mess with us, too. 8. 1:06:17 {Jesus Calling Out for Elijah?} On the cross, why did the Jewish people think Jesus was calling out for Elijah (Matthew 27: 47)? 9. 1:07:49 {Staying Encouraged in Today’s Culture} How do you stay encouraged in today’s culture? The culture is so discouraging. I sometimes feel like a failure because other Christians seem to “have it all together.” Also, how can we pray for you? 10. 1:15:06 {How You Can Be Blameless} How do you become blameless before God (Philippians 2: 15-18)? ~ Bonus Prayer Request: 1:20:37 Please pray for my cousin’s 3 grandchildren. A car wreck on Friday has left one paralyzed and 2 in still in the ICU. One has had 7 surgeries so far. They are all under age 12.

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

2) Matthew 25:13 🪔 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour"

[@992turbos]

@@NewCreationInChrist896 Who said that?

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

@@992turbos The Almighty.

[@agm97ga]

Brother Mike, thank you for the beautiful prayer, and for lifting these children and their family up in prayer. Their parents and grandparents, and my family are all strong Christians and we all believe in the power of prayer. I hope that others on the stream will continue to pray for them. The youngest two have been put into a medically induced coma since the accident. After much prayer so far, there have been good updates. I know that God will heal them all and I want to selfishly pray that they be healed on earth, but I know that praying His will is right. We will trust in Him and in His glorious power. God is good. All the time! Edited to add: Thank you for all that you do. I have learned so much from your live streams and your content. I check your website often for help with questions. It is such a blessing to have such an amazing resource available.

[@jeffwarren6906]

I will continue to pray for them sister ...

[@Rachel_D03]

May God bring healing to not only these children but also the parents, grandparents, and other close loved ones. May He bless this family with peace, comfort, healing, wisdom, and the deep love found only in Him. Amen God keeps His promises, and His children will be healed no matter on this earth or in His arms. He is faithful! Through all trials His power is made perfect, and His name is glorified in our hardship - we know that He holds everything in His hands. I pray the children and family are strengthened in their faith and trust in Jesus and His goodness even still. Amen!

[@abrilrodriguez4771]

Thank you for answering my Question! I appreciate it. I will try to do my own research. 🙂

[@Fan-vm3sv]

Always praying for you, dear Mike. Thank you for giving a tiny bit of specific information about your health and focus so all of us can pray for you in detail. You are one of the biggest blessings in all our lives. Thank you. Kathy Alba.

[@marthathompson2012]

I love that you don’t skimp on the study, and always do the thorough work-even when it takes time! I appreciate you so much for this quality! Far too often we, as teachers, give a lesson or a study “a lick and a promise,” as the saying goes-and neglect to do anything deeper because of time and effort and the legitimate fact that most people are shallow enough in their understanding that it’s something they can grow from even if we don’t do much real study. But that’s the lazy me, and it’s impressive, encouraging and rewarding to see you fight through the reality that this study is hard work and time consuming. It’s good that we see this effort and honest truth. Thank you for your diligence and integrity in this. I’m so blessed by your ministry and encouraged in so many ways! Stay strong, brother! Love you so much!

[@yolandasoro]

Always in my prayers Pastor Mike, God bless you and your ministry. To God be all the Glory!

[@eli-bt4he]

What I find incredibly intriguing is the kinds of things that atheists will entertain while simultaneously ridiculing those who believe in a God who created the universe. Things like multiverse theory or simulation theory. These both stem from an acknowledgment that the universe appears to be intelligently designed, but they can't entertain the idea of is typically referred to as God. Simulation theory is particularly intriguing to me, since it literally is just Creationism rewritten in a way to pretend that it isn't.

[@Heather.Isaiah43.1]

Not to mention how many people today will entertain the idea of aliens (which I’m sure is demonically inspired), as a means of explaining the universes intelligent design, without having to acknowledge GOD.

[@codyb4016]

My favorite is that life originated on mars and traveled by meteor to Earth. At a certain point they should just admit that they don’t WANT God to exist.

[@tonyabrown7796]

Yep. They "can't" believe in God because he's unseeable and doesn't operate according to the known laws of physics but they'll believe in the big bang and singularity even though they're unseeable and don't operate according to the known laws of physics.🤔

[@RyanJones-ew8vm]

​@@codyb4016Yes, it's possible that life on Earth originated on Mars and was transported to Earth by meteorites. This theory is called panspermia and has been debated for a long time. Some evidence that supports this theory includes: Minerals Minerals containing boron and molybdenum are important for assembling atoms into life-forming molecules. These minerals were likely more abundant on Mars than on early Earth. Dry environment Early Mars had a drier environment than early Earth, which may have been more favorable for the origins of life. Oxidized molybdenum An oxidized form of molybdenum was likely available on Mars' surface, but not on Earth. Molybdenum is thought to have helped organic molecules develop into the first living structures. Martian meteorite The Yamato 000593 meteorite, which landed in Antarctica about 50,000 years ago, contains evidence of past water movement and carbon-rich spheres that may have been formed by biotic activity.

[@992turbos]

@@codyb4016 What I love is when theists point to hypotheses presented in science, and pretend they are “atheist theories”, when they should know that science would never present a supernatural explanation to begin with, since science is only concerned with the natural world. But thats why theists are gullible.

[@wilmabrown2647]

Hi Mike, Enjoying you from Ireland 🙏🏻 I had a cough the very same as yours and was diagnosed with coughing asthma and got an inhaler and it’s now completely gone. Hope this helps 🙏🏻 GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR CATS 😂

[@mamamia4745]

That's my son. He is 39, extremely intelligent yet he argues we don't even exist. We have rousing discussions about it & at least now he's willing to listen to the Christian POV. Clearly God is working on him. Please pray with me for his understanding in his soul & his humility to accept God's great gift of salvation.

[@Rachel_D03]

I pray God shines His face upon your son and softens his heart to be open to the truth, love, and goodness of the One true God. I pray for patience and humility to brew in him, for ears to hear and eyes to see; I pray for the Lord to give him understanding, and I pray for wisdom on both sides. I pray that God works on him and reveals His power and glory in his life overwhelmingly. I pray for guidance for you in your talks with your son, and I pray God speaks to you and leads you by His Spirit. I pray in Jesus name, the Most High King, that change will be made in his heart, amen! Thank you Jesus

[@ajosep-zb8qf]

always an insightful time watching these. keeping you and the team in my prayers 💙 God bless

[@timothybreshears5987]

To believe that life and the universe are accidental is beyond gullible.

[@heidi.piedee]

Thanks for your videos!

[@peterfox7663]

Feels like people are gullible. Of all kinds.

[@MikeWinger]

Yep

[@Jason-cn5vo]

​@@MikeWingerdo you see similarities in what atheists believe about not having free will and what Calvinists believe?

[@Hisdaughter95]

On question 1 . As a Christian in LB I so relate to people being okay with you being Christian as long as it’s not REAL Christianity . I was just speaking to an agnostic today and in their objection to Christianity they bought up random subjects with no actual evidence or direction. I truly do believe we have to continue to pray that the Lord open up their eyes .

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

Mike needs to have a talk with Randal Rauser, Christian apologist and author of Is the Atheist My Neighbor?

[@aaronparry2636]

I'd say you're half-right about the gullibility of atheists. All people are gullible, whether atheist, agnostic, theist, deist, etc. Mythicism is the atheist equivalent of Young Earth creationism. Plenty of biases on all sides. The easiest trap to fall into is thinking that, because you've examined things, your conclusion is free of bias. The biggest thing I'm seeing come up more and more are the Tik Tok theologists that thrive on the gullibility of each side.

[@ChristIsKing4Eva]

What exactly do you mean by half right friend? Also, I think Mike mentioned several times that theists also have biases and they seem to more readily accept it.

[@mesamom62]

Thank you!

[@kennethanderson8770]

Little does hawking know science is natural philosophy.

[@mesamom62]

My cat has joined me too.

[@khazhad]

It's a pretty common sense and use of the word "fancy." I think somehow you just haven't run across this before. From the Oxford English Dictionary: fancy noun & adjective 3. Delusive imagination; hallucination; an instance of this; = fantasy n. 3. ... 4.b. A mental image.

[@jessebryant9233]

"Not good enough!" ... That's pretty much every atheist ever. Ask them to give arguments and evidence that is "good enough" regarding their own naturalistic position? They are speechless! It's like they honestly don't understand what they've just been asked. ... Because they never thought about it before. The thought of making the case FOR their own position, never ever occurred to them.

[@peterfox7663]

7:15 sounds like plenty of Christians who decry philosophy, claiming "I just follow the Bible"

[@MikeWinger]

It does. And I think those Christians are being silly. Philosophy is part of your beliefs whether you realize or not. Better to realize it.

[@danreich4320]

You really understand atheists well. Totally dialed in.

[@Simple.BibleTruth]

Let’s not be gullible. Thoughtfully text to identify Truth ❤ “Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭17‬:‭11‬ ‭

[@3071-f6i]

I bet you wouldn’t be surprised how much this is used in MLMs.

[@navybrandt]

I'd like to see you redo question 1 in a future stream, except it's how Calvinists tend to be gullible.

[@Thundawich]

10:59. Isn't that how basically all religious people are with regards to their religion though? What percentage of christians have actually looked into various aspects of the religion to see if it is actually the case, or did they just take someone's word for it?

[@JPGola-n9w]

💜🩵💜🩵💜🩵💜🩵💜🩵💜🩵💜🩵please pray for salvation for, My husband Pete, and two sons, Chris and Nick.

[@Readrose8]

❤️‍🩹 I will! I’ll write it down in my list because this is close to my heart: my husband and children- two sons 14 and 12, and daughter 10 - think there’s no God or spiritual things- and even I am so weak and often am scared that there really isn’t God and I’m indulging in pretend, as my husband believes. I hope there is, and still pray but feel like I’m lying to say I believe. If you can maybe please pray for my family too.

[@yolandasoro]

Praying for your family. God bless you.

[@Omgwtfbbqsammich]

Love your content but I have to admit that the reasons you give that atheist would be gullible are the same reasons anyone, including religious people. Anyone who does not investigate their beliefs are at higher risk for being taken in by charismatic charlatans. I say this as a former atheist who is so glad to have found Jesus.

[@roblangsdorf8758]

Gullible is a great way to describe people who still believe in random chance evolution. Anyone who has done any programming knows that getting one character misplaced usual causes the whole program to crash. The human genome is about 3,400,000,000 units of code long. Mathematicians like Professor John Lennox have some great observations about the problems with random changes. James Tour, a chemistry professor at Rice University, has shown that the chemicals needed to produce life wouldn't be able to accidentally assemble themselves in a primordial chemical soup. Variations do happen. But for the most part, their products are too functionable to be accidents. Perhaps the gullibility that Mike was talking about is the product of coming up with excuses for not investigating issues that lead towards the discovery of truth.

[@merrygrammarian1591]

Restating for clarity. The claim is: "Atheism makes you gullible." NOT "gullible people become atheists" or "only atheists are gullible." Now back to your discussions.

[@MarkHorton-n3t]

Saying that their is no God is an extraordinary claim. I have never seen an atheist present any evidence against God's existence. Some claim that God is evil, which is evidence that He exists, and some claim that lack of evidence for God is evidence against God.

[@jameslay1489]

yet we haven't seen theists give good evidence that a god does exist and the argument they usually give is basically the argument from ignorance, aka the god of the gaps. Do gnomes exist? I can't find any evidence that gnomes exist, does that mean they don't exist?

[@JesusistheWaytheTruth288]

Love your content, Mike! I am kinda surprised the position you took at 3:51, Islam bases itself entirely on that claim or else it falsifies itself. Nit picky i know, keep up the great livestreams!

[@paneofrealitychannel8204]

I have what I believe to be a very important comment on evolution. The word is far too broad to cover the vast concepts that come up in everyday life. Of course things evolve. Most everything evolves. However, the theory of evolution has a very rigid set of requirements to qualify in the context of the history of biology. Evolution in this regard is very specific in that it is an undirected process. UNDIRECTED, BLIND, PROCESS.

[@able34bravo37]

I've always found it funn when atheists I've met insist on only using atheists as evidence for or against Christ. Because believing against doesn't create a bias. Only believing for does.

[@saftis5304]

21:00 though I agree with most of the reasoning from Mike Winger, I am going to have to disagree here. If we research long enough we can understand a lot, even perhaps most of the universe. But God's thoughts and ways are so much higher than what we can understand. The creator is more complex than the created. I wonder in what ways does Mike Winger think God is less complex? Just because you can prove someone or something's existence or explain the core of a concept, does not mean that it is less complex in itself.

[@mamamia4745]

I can't imagine any follower of Christ not wanting to go with Jesus when He returns for us.The Lord is the one who saves & He will continue even when I'm gone. I've seen many testimonies from NDE's, both believers & non. When it is time to return, overwhelmingly, they beg not to. His love, peace & acceptance, lack of sin draw us to His light far greater than the darkness of this world.

[@GrizzV991]

For all the bloviating about empiricism I get from atheism apologists, they only ever seem to offer "Well I heard/read this from a guy I like" Even the big guys like Alex O Connor will cite "I had Coffee with my really smart friend once, and he mentioned this paper one time that completely explains X concept" as if to say thats any kind of argument for anything

[@jameslay1489]

I've heard theists use the same reasoning. This guy is smart and a theist therefore god exists.

[@roadsareoptional8670]

Q9 understand that Christianity operates within culture.

[@KMM61873]

That passage isn’t about the rapture? It sure sounds like it is.

[@pper93]

Interesting topics..on question no.3 2 pagan Gods compared with the trinity & 1 GOD? it's always awkward when the trinity comes into a topic, because its complicated & doesn't make sense & I get the feeling that deep down people know it's not true...they know that the truth is that biblically there is one God in contrast with multiple false gods... which as said is more of a philosophy discussion rather than a religious one. Unfortunately the trinity is both because it is not only false but leads to confusion about what is true & who we worship & does impact on the subject of the previous? ...about who is judged & who is saved cheers!

[@dawacu1]

I think question #3 is really about non-trinitarian Christian religions like The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Latter-day Saints believe God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate in substance but one in purpose. How is this belief different than the Trinity?

[@roblangsdorf8758]

@dawacu1 The LDS belief system is similar to the old Greek concepts of one God begeting another, who begets others. They list "the father" and "the son" and claim that if you do well, you will get your own planet to be the god over. Christianity has one God, who manifests in 3 distinction persons.

[@RedefineLiving]

Not only our atheists gullible, but they are emotional. It does not matter how much “padding you put down on the floor floor” before you make your argument for their gullibility, they’re going to be offended. It is what it is.

[@992turbos]

Emotional about what? And what emotions do atheists have that theists are lacking?

[@ShaneZettelmier]

I would agree in the sense that not exactly gullible but susceptible to false information. An atheist will disagree with me all day long, but it applies to every atheist I’ve ever met and talked to because if you identify yourself as an atheist, you’re probably an atheist if you’re joining groups, calling yourself an atheist reading all these atheist books. What’s happening as you’re struggling with conviction, understanding God, and his calling, something is making it prevalent in your life to where your intentionally rebelling against it. A true atheist would just not care. I may not even know the word atheist, but they’re definitely not out there looking for other atheist attacking religion, especially Christianity specifically and, identifying themselves that way if you say, who are you? What do you believe in they’ll come out with a does another answers and atheism won’t be one of them because if they’re truly an atheist, they don’t really believe in it, but those who identify as atheist are struggling with their spirituality And that gullible because they followed into a pattern of looking desperately for anybody who will agree with them, misery, loves company, and will look at any meme that sounds cute when it attacks Christianity and just blindly and religiously believe in it. They do believe in religion they are incredibly religious people. They just made their religion, resisting God and the conviction of the spirit, they are struggling with their faith. It’s kind of like politics side A and you’re susceptible to believing anything bad said about side B. People who actually do research and study to find the truth and answers aren’t as susceptible but atheist love slogans and jargon and trivial attacks because the truth is, they’re not unbelievers they’re struggling believers. Christians and everybody will do the same if I made a convincing meme saying something about Satanism that sounded plausible, but wasn’t accurate. A lot of Christians were just believe it and accepted as truth without actually studying it. It sounded plausible like if I said the president of the United States said this today and he’s a complete liar, most people are gonna believe it because the guy lies all the time, but maybe he told the truth for oncepoliticians lie through their teeth all the time so you politicians lying about something people are pretty quick to believe it unless they’re just sheep who worship one sided and hate the other. So in that sense, I would say atheist or gullible because they’ll believe in a lot of false information. You’ll say oh the Bible says this and contradicts itself here and they say see I saw it on a meme so the Bible contradicts itself, but they never actually go read it and study it And find out the full context even beyond the translation because a lot of the Bible was written hundreds of years ago and English has changed, 100 years ago if I said you’re gay that meant you were happy if I say you’re gay today it means something else changes and Just love to find these little things in the Bible that the language is changed not clear in translation or the words don’t emphasize the full context and try to tear it apart and misrepresented it and present it in the wrong context. I had some pro-choice person telling me About the verse in the psalm this talks about bashing the babies on the rock and how they would be blessed for doing it. They clearly didn’t read the rest of the songs where it was saying they were about to experience the judgment of God for enslaving as people and they were about to be punished and it would be worse for them Than horrible tragedy that and it was using it as a horrible example of something terrible it wasn’t saying it was a good thing, but that’s how secular and atheists and people trying to represent the Bible do it. They represent it out of context and try to pretend like the Bible says this to attack it, and usually they know what they’re doing, but those who are just atheist and into the atheist thing and trying to figure it all out and struggling with their beliefs are very susceptible to believing these nonsensical unfounded accusations because they want to believe it and people don’t really research stuff they just believe anything that sounds good to them

[@kennethgee2004]

being susceptible to false information is the definition of being gullible.

[@MichaelNodine]

You've moved away from the mic

[@johnalexir7634]

I don't think the concept of "projection" can be captured any better than by this video title.

[@lesliematyas1921]

when you try to tell others about JESUS and explain it clearly and in love ....if they reject ...thats there issue . when in the gospels ,,,there was no going back to those who rejected the gospel ,,,the salvation ....

[@med4699]

Do you think the bible would have an entire chapter written by an unsaved man? I think not. Necuchadnezzar did not have a full understanding of the mighty God, but he was certainly saved. Y'all King Neb wrote an entire chapter and you believe he was unsaved?

[@bufficliff8978]

Nebuchadnezzar didn't write it; he was written about and quoted. Lots of unsaved people are written about and quoted in the Bible. There's also no theological reason God wouldn't let someone unsaved pen the text. God can and does use anyone for His purposes: saved and unsaved.

[@robertdouglas8895]

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. Jesus said," I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" He never said, "I am a body." "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

[@richardvoogd705]

Don't forget Galatians 4:4-5 ESV: But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

[@robertdouglas8895]

@@richardvoogd705 He taught us how to come to redemption ourselves. We are masters of our fate, not dependent upon anyone

[@Sheep1Hundred]

So is atheism just Buddhism?? 🤔

[@vernalenker]

Lost volume

[@EverlastingLife-pl9ug]

Where is the "one taken and one left" teaching!?!??!!?

[@Berean_with_a_BTh]

Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:34-35

[@EverlastingLife-pl9ug]

@@Berean_with_a_BTh NO, the Mike Winger video!! I know the scripture.

[@susanzumback7711]

You do burp alot in your videos😂maybe deliverance from a spirit of indegestion? Call Saldivar stat!

[@KG-jx8zt]

Sorry Mike, but Stephen Hawking was not smarter than you. What good is it to be a technical genius if your bias skews your logic? He made more than one completely illogical, unscientific statement. I would advise atheists to read the Bible not necessarily to be converted but just to gain wisdom and several IQ points.

[@jameslay1489]

Many of us have read the bible which is why many of us atheists reject the bible.

[@992turbos]

I think utilizing faith (believing without evidence) is the epitome of leading to gullibility. Atheism is based on skepticism, which relies on evidence to warrant positive belief. So, I don’t see how atheism, can lead to more gullibility, when theists are more likely to believe something without evidence.

[@MikeWinger]

But faith is NOT meant to rule out evidence according to Scripture. Here’s proof. kzbin.infoSIJORjiOWeI?si=gdFCsK_cqsCF8RFS

[@danreich4320]

There’s a tremendous amount of evidence for the existence of God. You just don’t see it. As an atheist you are blind to it.

[@jameslay1489]

@@danreich4320 Then it's god's will that we are blind then. If he wanted us to see it, he would know exactly what would convince us.

[@danreich4320]

@@jameslay1489 I don’t think God wants you and other atheists to be blind to it. It is Satan that blinds us, not God. And you never know, you might think differently in the future. Since you are an atheist, what I just said makes no sense to you. That’s part of the blindness. But maybe someday it will.

[@BrianAtLIFEwest]

@@jameslay1489that’s hyper Calvinist and you don’t even know it. Read Romans

[@actionpoker7C2H]

Unfortunately, you didn't persuade this Atheist, although I am not a mythicist. Question 1 was 30 minutes, and I wonder if my response can be reduced to anything less than a book. I think you take a lot of individual claims (I tried to take note) and add them together to draw your final conclusion, that Atheism causes a cognitive dissonance that is akin to a gateway drug for philosophy and science. -If having mythicists "using" atheism as a launching point is a bad look, then I wonder what THE EXISTANCE OF* Mormonism and Jehovah's witnesses say about Christianity. Branch Davidians? I'm just reversing your statement - I'll take responsibility for MY positions, and I'll hold you only to yours. -I have heard you acknowledge the Egyptian papyrus that are our earliest fragments of the gospels. I've seen facsimiles when I visited the Museum of the Bible in DC. Papyrus 66 skips from John 7:52 to John 8:12. The Bible was changed before the Byzantine bible. -I assume you just mean the earlier resurrections hardly fit 1:1 with the story in the gospels. If not, there are definitely other resurrection stories. Osiris might get a lot of attention, but Ishtar died and was was resurrected 3 days later. Just don't think you accurately depicted that there are, in fact, other resurrection stories. -I could have independent conclusions about God/Self/Morals/Free Will. Afterlife? Beginning of the universe? Premillennial or postmillennial? People may hold strong beliefs that are not well researched/supported or they may spend years learning about a subject and still not know whether or not to believe a claim. I'll take responsibility for MY positions, and I'll hold you only to yours. Extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence. I think you were starting to see the issue with your video analogy. The evidence you need to demonstrate an actual prophecy and not a trick becomes high, and frankly I think there may be an issue in the fact that it may be impossibly high. If you showed me your best evidence, I still don't think we can conclude a supernatural source before aliens that evolved naturally on mars. I have a problem there, but I think your position doesn't sufficiently address the problem. I think Matt Dillahunty is right when he says the God of the Bible would know how to convince me. There is, presumably, an evidence that would be sufficient, but I don't know what it is. That's an honest assessment of my concern there is no upper boundary to my skepticism, but it is not meant to convey that I think your evidence is strong for the resurrection. If I stand in for Doubting Thomas, meeting the resurrected Jesus, and I am still looking for a fog machine then I would more appreciate the sentiment. I think you make some fair claims: "Atheists are gullible," "Mythicism (Jesus the historical figure did NOT exist) is a fringe idea among historical scholars," "Atheists can make ad hominem attacks and have confirmation bias," Even if we take the claims I agree with and the ones I do not and add them together, I do not think it justifies your conclusion. Atheism is not a religion. It's not a worldview. It's just my position when you tell me your story about a man who came to save me from myself. I am just not convinced. One last note is on how two points contradict each other. If Atheists are gullible for believing the bible has changed then I wonder how you explain the short ending of mark vs the long ending.

[@tonyabrown7796]

Mike's views on some of these issues is already out there. He has done video's refuting mormonism and jehova witnesses. From memory I think he may even have called them cults and not christians. That's a sentiment most informed christians make in my experience. He also covered the ending in Mark. From memory I can't recall exactly if he had a conclusion. It may be that the longer ending was there and lost, or that a well meaning scribe later added the ending based on other bible books. Either way, the content was already in the bible. Matt Dillahunty once said that if the moon exploded and the debris spelled out something along the lines of "I am God" he would not accept it, and even if he was standing before a bright majestic being claiming to be God he would assume that he was hallucinating. Is that a reasonable standard of evidence in your eyes? An extraordinary claim doesn't require extraordinary evidence. It just requires appropriate evidence. A claim of something being extraordinary is just something being unusual. If I claimed to have just come from performing a heart transplant that would be an extraordinary claim. If Dr Ben Carson made that same claim it's no less extraordinary, but much more believable because of who is making the claim. I am an electricity meter reader, he a famed surgeon. The claim of the resurrection is quite similar. If I claimed to have raised myself from the dead, it's unlikely to be true. If Jesus truly is the creator of the universe, it's no less unusual, but is it so unbelievable that he raised himself from the dead if he is who he said he is? The proof for such a claim doesn't need to be extraordinary, just appropriate. If he was dead and then he was alive again, that is sufficient evidence that he resurrected. As an atheist I assume you believe in abiogenesis. Does that mean you believe natural processes can spontaneously make life? Or perhaps those aliens? Or if scientists one day figure out abiogenesis could they do it? Thus the cognitive dissonance of atheism. That would mean concluding scientists and nature could give life but an all powerful God could not. Both are faith positions as we have not seen either one. Atheism is indeed a worldview. It's how you view the world. When someone dies do you have the view that they're just gone, or in heaven/hell? Do you assume we will one day find naturalistic abiogenesis? Do you base your morality on something other than an absolute authority? Your atheistic assumptions are influencing your interpretation of everything. What about your views on the sanctity of life? Does your atheism affect that? Should we teach young earth creationism as fact in schools? I'm guessing your atheism is going to affect your decision making in that. That there is bias. We all have biases, but you atheists rarely, if ever, recognise yours. Then you would criticise us for ours. That's bad philosphy. Good philosophy leads to theism, or at the very least agnosticism, but never atheism.

[@bufficliff8978]

Your long response is much better than mine. Appreciate you. I think he should cut the segment, think through it more like he does with one-off videos and present his idea again formally with full Winger-style. I like the Q&As, but I think the claim was bigger than he perceived it to be as just a pet-thought of his.

[@actionpoker7C2H]

@@tonyabrown7796 I welcome the discussion, but I think you got the wrong idea from a few of my points. I was responding mostly in order with Mike's segment, and he makes this point where because mythicists must come from atheists it therefore is a "bad look" for atheists. I think if Mike is correct then the same can be said about Branch Davidians, but I mostly just think he's wrong in the claim. Mike then makes a specific point out of how Atheists believe the Bible has changed but later talks about how Mark has quite literally been changed and the original version is anyone's guess (as you alluded to). I noticed you didn't respond to my point regarding papyrus 66. Our earliest manuscripts do not have Jesus and the adulterer story. The new testament changed. I have seen William Lane Craig's evidence for the resurrection and Mike has a similar presentation. If you saw a magical act like Penn and Teller, what could they do to convince you that they are God? Serious question. For me, I don't think they could. It's not Jesus, or his resurrection. I think the evidence is not that strong for the resurrection, but I can be honest about the limits of my knowledge and what could actually convince me is something I do not know. Non-stamp collecting is as much a hobby as non-belief is a worldview. I don't go around proclaiming I am not convinced Ishtar is not real. In no way am I influenced by not practicing Samarian wedding ceremonies as I am not defined by being a Non-bowler. I am just not convinced in the story you believe.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

I am an atheist. I interact with three secular humanist and/or atheist groups. I do not know a single atheist who is a mythicist. All three groups have extensively had book and film groups that discussed how bunk Zeitgeist is. Meanwhile, I am surrounded by YEC churches and homeschooling families that buy into everything from QAnon thinking to the most outlandish of absurd things. Many Catholics believe in transubstantiation. I’m not saying there aren’t atheists who are idiots and gullible, but Mike is making it seem like those people are the bulk of the atheist population while refraining from mentioning all the crazy of beliefs in Christendom. Oh, and I’d be happy to define “extraordinary” anytime. Let’s all not strawman or over simplify the other side, eh?

[@tonyabrown7796]

I agree that christians often believe crazy wrong things. The point though isn't that only atheists are poor philosophers, but they are necessarily so. Which I think is true. In my experience atheists do not recognise their own bias.

[@Berean_with_a_BTh]

You evidently haven't been interacting with the mythicists that are all over the internet.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

@@Berean_with_a_BTh Again, there are YECers all over the internet. There are those who believe in tongues, that body parts of saints have magical powers. I do not feel the need to round others to my cause by traipsing a parade of Ken Ham or Ray Comfort types about insisting that this is what Christianity is.

[@kennethgee2004]

so you believe that the historical figure from the Bible that we know as Jesus is a real person in history? If yes, then what do you do with his life, death, and resurrection?

[@eli-bt4he]

They are mostly what is referred to as the Reddit-tier atheist. Aka the kind of people who get all their information from memes and spend their whole day trolling comment sections.

[@bryanmercille3049]

Have you ever listen to Bart E. talk about the new testament he has a very high respect for it and you have misrepresented him greatly

[@Berean_with_a_BTh]

Bart Ehrman attacks the integrity of the New Testament wholesale. Everything from late composition, no eyewitness accounts, forged epistles, imagined contradictions, and so on. That doesn't accord with your view of his view.

[@GrizzV991]

Barts opinions change like the wind. He used to talk about how not only are there so few manuscripts of the New Testament but that they varied wildly between them all in wording, tone, and even intent. This was before the group he is a part of concluded that each of the manuscripts has a similarity rate unseen of any document with as many samples

[@ST52655]

Bart Ehrman is responsible for leading many people away from God.

[@jameslay1489]

According to scripture, blind faith is the preferred faith. Blind faith leads to gullibility. Then there is the fact that christians are willing to believe a man was raised from the dead based on a claim in a book, that is the height of gullibility.

[@MikeWinger]

That’s not what Scripture says about faith. This was actually on my list, a false definition of faith. Here’s a whole video on the topic. kzbin.infoSIJORjiOWeI?si=gdFCsK_cqsCF8RFS

[@jameslay1489]

@@MikeWinger The story of doubting Thomas. "Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed". It seems like Jesus prefers those who haven't got any evidence to those who do have evidence.

[@MikeWinger]

@@jameslay1489 I cover that passage in detail in the video I linked for you.

[@jameslay1489]

@@MikeWinger why do I need an hour long video when the bible provides? "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." Hebrews 11:1-6

[@davidbell2547]

That's your interpretation. Based on the talking points of many atheists. You cannot reasonably arrive at that conclusion by reading the passage. Jesus is saying the people who know the truth who have 'seen it' with their 'spiritual eyes' are more intuitive and wise than people who won't believe unless they have seen. In other words, if I tell you I can lift 50kg, and then I lift 50 kg in front of you , and you explain it away ('it's not really 50 kg') vs someone who looks at my build and goes "yeah, I believe you can do that" without seeing me do it, the person who has believed without seeing has shown more rationality, more intuitiveness than the one who doesn't believe even though he sees ​@jameslay1489

[@mindofmasterproductions]

God is only ONE person

[@toreyhorton1789]

John 4:24 - God is not a person at all. God is a Spirit.

[@mindofmasterproductions]

@@toreyhorton1789 So Jesus who is God wasn’t a person 🤔🤔 The Bible says Jesus is the image of the Invisible God and it says He was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

[@richardvoogd705]

Some people get tripped up, thinking that 1+1+1=3. Try 1×1×1=1.

[@toreyhorton1789]

@@mindofmasterproductions You are presuming I accept the blasphemous Roman doctrine of the Trinity. You also presume that I value someone else’s interpretation over explicit reading, teaching, and statements of Jesus and other spirit-anointed and inspired Bible writers. I posted a very easy text of a statement made by Jesus who at the time was a fleshly person yet told another person that God is a Spirit. John 4:24 Also, do you know what an image is? The Greek word for image is “eikōn.” It is defined as a likeness or STATUE or representation. If someone made a statue of you or created an image of your likeness would that image be the actual person it was created to depict? This is elementary-level thinking. Godhead is nowhere in scripture. There is no Greek word that means Godhead. That is a spurious English rendering of the Greek word “theios” which means gods, deities, divine, or divinities.

[@toreyhorton1789]

@@richardvoogd705 I think you can attach as many silly equations to try and make sense of the nonsensical. I will not accept anything as utterly ridiculous as the unscriptural Roman blasphemy of the Trinity. I will stick with the fundamental relationship recorded all throughout the scriptures of a father and a son. God chose to communicate His relationship with Christ by using basic EASILY UNDERSTOOD human roles: Father and Son. Nothing confusing about that. Fathers provide the material to create their sons. Every single Father of a son is older than their son. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Sons are commanded to obey their Father and Jesus worshipped and obeyed his Father. John 4:22 John 5:30 John 8:28

[@horridhenry9920]

Mike if you claim God is a necessary being, this is no different from saying that the universe is a necessary thing. Presupposing the thing you are trying to show exists is just a conversation stopper. If Hod is a necessary being why is it the Christian God? This is just apologetics 101.

[@kennethgee2004]

except that we know the universe is not eternal so as a contingent thing is cannot be definition be necessary. We are not just presupposing, but it is a logical conclusion from logic. Even the like of Aristotle saw this with his arguments for an unmoved mover. Now you are correct with the cumulative case the first three points kalam cosmological argument, fine tuning of the universe, and information in DNA one does not get the God of Christianity. It is then to the history of Jesus that we find God and the personal experiences the apostles had that changed the course of humanity forever.

[@GrizzV991]

Even if Christianity were wrong(it isnt) whatever created all of space and time through the universe would need to be able to BE and OPERATE outside of space and time, whatever that thing was, you would call it God

[@kennethgee2004]

@@GrizzV991 well yes I would, but others would say it could be some other specific deity or it might identify as many names. Some go so far as to make up the name and call it a flying spaghetti monster. So making the distinction that the universe itself is not eternal means that atheism cannot be true by way of contradiction.

[@jameslay1489]

​@@kennethgee2004 except we don't know if the universe is eternal, it's just an assumption. Saying there is an unmoved mover is like saying there is a place north of the north pole, it's nonsense.

[@jameslay1489]

@@GrizzV991 you can say there is something outside of space and time but until you demonstrate that there is and outside of space and time, I can dismiss the notion as nonsense.

[@horridhenry9920]

I am 5 minutes in and I have to correct Mike. Mike, stop misleading your followers. We do not have any of the originals, nada, none, zero. We have copies, some earlier than others and some are just fragments. There is no scholarly dispute about this. If you cannot get the basics right, from the get go, it does not bode well for the rest.

[@duncanthesniper5860]

I think you are confused, Mikes position is that we have the words of the original not the actual documents. It is an easy mistake to make.

[@Jason-cn5vo]

You didn't listen very well.

[@baileysservices3165]

His statement “we have the originals” was not a claim that we have the originals, but was meant to describe the process - it started with originals and then led to copies of them, and then copies of copies.

[@toreyhorton1789]

He did say “We have the original autographs…” which is absolutely false. There are no original manuscripts that exist. The oldest dated biblical texts are the scrolls found in the caves of Qumran. Sometimes YT fans can act like idol worshipers. They can place so much faith in a content creator to the point their faith appears to be reverential. Don't explain away mistakes your idol makes simply because you revere him/her and can't take it when someone is critical of them. Everyone makes mistakes. You trying to explain it away by suggesting you have been appointed to clear up any misconceptions only makes things worse.