The Problem of Personal Interpretation

[@nicholasvogt2524]

Joe your daily videos have been helping me get through a very rough time in my life. Thank you man.

[@shamelesspopery]

I'm so glad! How can we pray for you?

[@nicholasvogt2524]

@@shamelesspoperyplease pray that I am able to persevere through grief. Thank you

[@billpletikapich8320]

@@nicholasvogt2524 Praying that you are eased thru your grief.

[@RuralRouteStepChild]

Is there any Saint particularly appealing to you right now? May a lending hand through the intercession of Saints help you through this time. I pray you remain close to God through your grief brother. You are not alone.

[@richardkasper5822]

I'm just about to pray a rosary and I had an undeniable urge to tap on Joe first so it could register in my phone to come back to it later and your comment was first on the on the thumbnail so I'll pray for you Nicholas and all others with grief and sadness today... God loves you man 🙏🏽🙏🏾🙏🏻 it'll get better.

[@jonatasmachado7217]

I have been a Baptist for more than 40 years. As I read the Church Fathers I realized that they were not Baptists. They were Catholic. So I became a Catholic. I regret that it took me so long.

[@R.C.425]

Blessed be God, forever 🙏 ♥️

[@stefanielozinski]

This is such a humble and awesome attitude! God bless you!

[@clarkkent5442]

28:24 I did not become Catholic because I agree with everything the churches teaches. for instance, in the beginning I didn't see anything wrong with IVF or condoms and other forms of birth control. I had to be obedient to the church while I learned the nuanced reasons for the teaching. once I learned why the church said IVF and birth control is wrong it became easier to be obedient to that teaching. now I'm fully obedient to all Catholic teachings.

[@timboslice980]

Amen the same way with me…. I converted 2 years ago and i couldnt understand how my vasectomy was evil. My wife and i had 2 kids and one of them is a special needs child. They became extremely difficult to deal with, we both lost good jobs and i could only imagine a 3rd child being the straw that would break our family. So i got the vasectomy…. Fast forward 3 years and i call catholic answers. I said i believe in the church but im having a hard tjme accepting repentance for that. Carlo B sent me a book called inseparable, changed the way i viewed the vasectomy and the theology of the body in general. Some doctrines hit so close to home theyre difficult to accept. I also thought i had to get it reversed to become catholic so that was a big relief. I do regret it and wish i could have another child now, life changed so much when i converted that i cant imagine anything breaking our family let alone another child. Insane what the protestant mindset is vs the catholic one.

[@TheCatholicNerd]

I've been a Catholic my entire life and I still struggle with some Church teachings like the current church position on the death penalty. I assent to the Church's teaching because She is from God, but I just don't understand how the Church gets to that conclusion.

[@geoffjs]

From belief comes understanding not vice versa, which is why obedience is so important! As children, we don’t always understand our parents, who typically are acting in our best interest, likewise with the teachings of mother Church!

[@timboslice980]

@@TheCatholicNerd Yeah that one took me about a week of study to accept. It’s like first and foremost we respect life and god’s position. God makes the choice when a person’s walk with him is over….. i look at a guy like Dahmer who almost everyone agrees deserved to be executed for his crimes. In prison he heard the message of the gospel for the first time, repented, proclaimed the name of christ, explained how he was involved in demonic rituals, and then after his baptism, he was killed by another inmate who said “all i could think of is i have to kill him” Dahmer didnt do anything directly to provoke the man, his reputation was known but the men didnt speak or know each other. Perhaps JD was lying to everyone, perhaps he was telling the truth, only god can judge the heart, and in the same measure, i think only he has the right to say when a man’s life should be over. No matter how horrible of a sinner he is in our eyes, by all rights….. imagine the christians caught Paul before his conversion. He murdered christians with zeal, did he deserve the death penalty for that? The way ive come to accept the church’s stance is as a society, we no longer have to kill these people if they are considered a threat to society. If it’s about numbers, then whats the value of a human life? When are criminals too much of an economic burden that it’s more humane to play god and just kill them? I just feel like it’s not our place to execute men but to evangelize them. Even the worst people imaginable….. i think about matthew 25 and the least of these. Ever since this topic became more mainstream, its got me thinking a lot more about it and have seriously felt the calling to visit prisoners.

[@tony1685]

doesn't it upset you that catholicism doesn't follow the basics in Christianity? one who doesn't at least teach God's Ten Commandments is only proving it doesn't know God, love Christ nor walk in Truth -- such is catholicism.

[@carakerr4081]

Thank you so much for this information! I reverted to Catholicism after spending ten years as a Protestant and this topic comes up talking with my Protestant friends. God bless you!

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Did you get a load of Joe's statement: "Catholicism doesn't teach additional revelation." What does he mean, "Catholicism doesn't teach additional revelation"?????? How did all the theology about Mary come about? That stuff is no mere "interpretation" of prior revelation. I mean, cite one apostle who taught about Mary's assumption into heaven. You can't do it. Catholicism adds to the revelation of God all the time. And she absolves herself of her sin with the wave of a hand saying, "Peter was the first pope." That is the key justification for all her error.

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

@@GizmoFromPizmoIt’s because as the Catholic Church is divinely by Jesus Christ. Jesus promised to be with her until the end of the age. Jesus also promised the Holy Spirit would bring to mind all Jesus taught and lead the Apostles and their successors to all truth.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@Spiritof76Catholic - You're reading much more into this theology than is written. If a person deliberately turns his back on God, does God still lead him? Obviously not. Are you suggesting that a person or an organization cannot drift away from God? If you are then you do NOT know people. The nation of Israel was God's people. Maybe they never strayed from His way... DUH! Listen to how Jesus said to accomplish what you want: "If ye continue in my word then are ye my disciples indeed and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32b-32) This is all conditional, okay? It's not something we cannot lose no matter how hard we try, right? I mean, are you a Once Saved Always Saved Baptist or what? And if you're thinking, well this is true on a micro (personal) scale but not true on a macro (institutional) scale then listen to what Paul said to the bishops (leadership) of Ephesus. Acts 20:28-30 - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. The theology that you need to be a reality does not exist and it flies in the face of the admonition: "Let him that think he standeth take heed lest he fall." (1 Cor. 10:12) God will never leave us nor forsake us but if we forsake Him, that's a whole other ballgame, right? Does my salvation require maintenance and eternal vigilance? You know it does. That's not only true for myself but it is especially true for my church. It's why God appointed bishops (overseers / shepherd) to guard His flock. Doctrinal error is very easy to slip into. Witness all the myriad denominations (of which, Catholicism in only one). The guardrails are the word of God - no matter how hard you kick and scream against that reality. God's word is supreme and everything that counters it, profanes it, adds to it or takes from it is a damnable heresy. "The Faith" is a thing - a noun - a reality. Our job is to stay "in the faith". Look at it like it's a coloring book and the word of God are the lines, which make up the picture on the page. We can color all day long within those lines but when we cross the line then we are in transgression. This is true on a personal (micro) level and also on an institutional (macro) level.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@Tobeouy - So, in your opinion, idol worship equates to "respect for God". Okay, got it!

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@Tobeouy - Write what?

[@Vinizuca]

I am not in the catholic church because I agree with it. I agree with it because I'm in it. The Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church. And for a few years I was going to Church and disagreeing with it, but out of obedience to God and the Holy Spirit I stayed, humbled myself that I did not know enough, and kept studying. After a while I understood why yhe Church was right in each topic and now I agree with it. But First I was inside the Church and only after I agreed with it.

[@susand3668]

Very subtle, and very true! Welcome home!

[@timboslice980]

Excellent content…. I use this argument frequently, i was so happy to see Joe covering it as well. His argument is way better than mine but i’d like to add that the bible says “if he will not listen to the church, let him be a gentile and tax collector” and “submit to your elders for they keep watch over your souls” When Luther was excommunicated for not submitting to his elders and treated as a gentile and tax collector. He deviates from scripture. Instead of reconciling to THE faith, he starts a new faith. Instead of submitting to an elder he becomes his own. Instead of accepting his station as a gentile and tax collector, he becomes the church. This is the guy who basically invented sola scrip and look what a mess of scripture he made just to attain the position. His legacy is simple: scripture is your authority if it agrees with you, it can be reinterpreted or ignored if it doesnt. Therefore scripture is not the authority but your own interpretation of it. That makes YOU the authority. You decide which Jesus is the right one, you decide which interpretation of scripture is best, you decide when to leave a church if theyve gone too far, you can even start your own church. You, you, you and scripture is anything but about elevating yourself. Scripture talks about the authority of the church being greater than the authority of the individual over and over again. Joe is right, its all about individualism and you know who loves to elevate the self. The pride, ego, and elevation of self over obedience and submission? Satan. Luther’s own admission is that he had constant attacks from satan all his life…. What if sola scriptura was satan’s ultimate trick? Submit to the bible but only the parts that you already agree with and listen to nobody who disagrees, listen only to pastors who have the same interpretation? That sounds exactly what scripture was warning us about.

[@roxanaconception]

Woah! Lot of eyebrow raising truth in this comment!😯 And very well put. Mr. Joe Hashmayer, has helped my faith in Catholicism. I have come to terms with my reckless choices in the past and understanding that God works in all of us, it like.. we walk and start going the wrong way and He gently guides us back. 😌 Edit: Heschmeyer 🙏🏻

[@DaveDave-oc4im]

Couldn't agree more and hence the exhortation on the times ahead which i guess we are in as is whereby people ain't tolerating sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold"

[@jenkoop]

I see Protestantism as a version of "non serviam." Instead of "I will not serve" it's "I will not submit to the authority of the church." As PBXVI called it, "radical individualism." Pray for our separated brethren.

[@hyeminkwun9523]

I would like to add to your quotes Our Lord's words in Luke 10:16, "Whoever listens to you listens to Me. Whoever rejects you rejects Me and rejects the One Who sent Me."

[@eddardgreybeard]

If a book was the point, Christ would've wrote it himself.

[@lzcontrol]

...and given it directly to Jack Chick to make into comic books so we could have a Dick n Jane theology.

[@eddardgreybeard]

@@lzcontrol LOL! Now I'm wondering how that tract about things like Mary's sinlessness, perpetual virginity, the eucharist, etc. would look with his yellow journalism approach as an actual believer.

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

I would caution not to go too far in the opposite direction, God absolutely willed for scripture to be written, and He was happy to inspire certain authors to write infallibly. We have three pillars: Scripture, Sacred Tradition, the Magisterium. We need all three.

[@johornbuckle5272]

@@MikePasqqsaPekiM catholics claim the canon is theirs but forget that it is inspired unlike tradition and the magisterium is doing a bad impression of Mr Biden

[@tyrannosauruszeppelin2205]

Great comment.

[@Jason-yu3dr]

I was once debating a Pentecostal girl about 1 Tim 2:12 where St. Paul was clearly saying that he didn’t permit women to teach, have authority over men, and to remain silent. Her response to this verse was that he only said that because there was an issue in the Corinth Church where women were acting out of place so it was totally circumstantial. I asked her where in scripture it says that and she said it doesn’t say that but it was something that was apparently “believed” during that time. I then asked her why she didn’t believe in the real presence then since that was also something that was believed for the first 1500 years of Christianity. She stayed quiet… Fast forward and she now rejects certain epistles from St. Paul and claims they’re forgeries

[@Vaughndaleoulaw]

Straight up had someone say in response to St. Paul on homosexuality that he is "not Jesus, and Jesus says nothing about it" and said she can ignore him.

[@sebastiankaczmarek635]

Listen to video on History for athesits titled Was Paul a sexists, you will learn quickly that interpretations of this women was right on the money. You simply need non bible document that was also writen by paul as a source that is not in the bible and wlala you see that paul when put in proper context did not say it at all. Also buy atleast one book from professional scholar like Hidden history of women ordination by gary macy you will be surprised.

[@eddardgreybeard]

​@@Vaughndaleoulaw Jesus affirmed traditional marriage. People saying "Jesus said nothing about it" are saying "he didn't say this specific combination of words" and are being dishonest.

[@StringofPearls55]

I've come across a few people online that say Paul preached a different gospel?!

[@dr.tafazzi]

@@sebastiankaczmarek635 why "non Bible document"? Please state your reasoning without appealing to any logical fallacy.

[@Anthony-fk2zu]

History is also a great teacher in this regard. Learning the history of Christianity led me very quickly to the Catholic Church.

[@LaEsoterica]

I tried to make this point to a friend and was quickly unfriended. 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@hanssvineklev648]

@Anthony-fk2zu. Well, that’s all nice and everything, but the deeper I get into history, the farther and farther and farther I get from Catholicism. And that’s from reading the early church fathers and reading/listening to Catholic theologians and pundits. What is it in history that led you to where you are now?

[@Anthony-fk2zu]

@@hanssvineklev648 how the Church Fathers talk about the Eucharist and the necessity of the visible Church primarily.

[@adelinomarcelinodacostarib2406]

​@@hanssvineklev648 you mean farther from the truth

[@jdotoz]

From my own experience: when I converted from atheism, I was politically a pretty radical libertarian. As I studied the Faith, I eventually concluded that this position was incompatible with Catholicism. So I changed my political position. I don't think it would have gone that way if I had become a Protestant of some variety - either I would have found a denomination compatible with my existing beliefs up front, I would have changed denominations upon reaching that conclusion, or I would have just lived with the contradiction.

[@andrew.bisson]

Libertarian politics isn’t incompatible with Catholicism. See Tom Woods, Stephanie Slade, and others for how the Catholic faith is compatible with libertarianism.

[@timrichardson4018]

I think your experience illustrates Joe's point very well! Putting one's trust in the authority of the Church (as the authority of Christ) is not the same as being one's own interpreter. Yes, I must use my own reason and judgment in both cases. It isn't "blind" obedience. But using my reason to decide for myself what's true and false is not the same as using my reason to submit to an external authority. One of the great theological truths is that God is something outside ourselves and something that transcends ourselves, and that this God has revealed himself. This unavoidably implies that we must look outside ourselves to this God and submit ourselves to what he has said. The protestant model is inconsistent with this. It has the written Word as an external authority, which is great. But without an external final interpretive authority, the self fills that role by default. And it leaves it's followers in a fragmented mess (personally and corporately).

[@davidramsey2566]

Excellent arguments. We still have no power after Helene smashed through but listening to this in my car with a good cup of coffee and the air conditioner running I’m having a pretty good day so far. Thanks for helping us better understand and defend our faith and helping me start another difficult day on a very positive note. 🙏😊

[@peterzinya1]

Your shameless leader misquoted the bible. Its private interpretation, not personal interpretation. You love lies and hate the truth.

[@canibezeroun1988]

Praying for you brother. All I can do is pray right now.

[@davidramsey2566]

@@canibezeroun1988 Prayers are most welcome. Thank you!

[@Theosis_and_prayer]

This is perhaps your most important video.

[@mikeyangel1067]

Agree. This video gets to the essence of scripture and what is the valid basis for personal interpretation.

[@wjtruax]

Thank you, Joe. The issues & arguments you bring up are exactly why I found myself having to reject "Sola Scriptura" to which I had held vehemently for 40+ years. The Lord made it clear to me that my primary issue was submission to authority. Though for decades I would have said, "I submit to the authority of Holy Scripture," it became clear to me that I was only "submitting" to my interpretation of Scripture, which is not true submission in any real way. I had to admit that true submission is ceding one's will to an authority before (not after) arriving at intellectual agreement with that authority. I had to submit my desire to interpret Scripture in my preferred way to the Church that our Lord left on earth to lead and guide his people into all truth. What has stunned me recently is the many claims that I hear from evangelicals that they "don't interpret" Scripture. The actually claim that their understanding of Scripture goes through no filter at all in their own minds - that when they read Scripture, the meaning is clear to them and arrives in their minds purely without any of their own prejudices having any influence. Of course, they can't explain how to resolve differences of "conviction" without claiming that the difference is "non-essential" or that the other person is not truly listening to the Holy Spirit. The third option is one that they tacitly live with but would be completely unacceptable if it were stated plainly: "The Holy Spirit has different 'truths' for different people." I don't claim that anyone overtly makes that claim but, in practical terms, that is how they have to operate unless they simply reject fellowship with everyone whose Scriptural convictions are one iota different their theirs. Grace & peace.

[@markhischier2750]

@40:59 I love when the concept starts cloudy, difficult, then suddenly clears up to reveal a deeper truth. Thank you Joe. Your work is blessed.

[@terryhartman9522]

Excellent teaching! I came into the Catholic church because of authority when the Christian denomination I was a part of started changing definitions of what was sinful (or not) by voting on it. It was also logic that convinced me the Catholic church teaching is true. The Holy Spirit must lead the Church into all truth and the Holy Spirit is not double minded. Thanks be to God!

[@jesus_is_my_spotter]

I often argue the point that every protestant is their own arbiter of truth in the Scriptures. I bring this up because I know we have the Church to settle matters.

[@jonathanw1106]

So you decided to accept a third party to be arbiter of truth instead of your own conscience. How is this better

[@Vaughndaleoulaw]

@@jonathanw1106 Jesus literally tells us to go to the church to settle disputes. So, yes, using a "third-party" (in this case, the institution Christ told us to go to for disputes) is better.

[@Anonymousduck161]

@@jonathanw1106womp womp

[@jonathanw1106]

@Anonymousduck161 whelp my last comment got deleted but what I had quoted was Matthew 18 15 which clearly says that the disputes Jesus was talking about are interpersonal. Classic catholic taking a bible text that clearly says one thing and twisting it to say another... there's a verse somewhere about that

[@geoffjs]

@@jonathanw1106When did you last try to interpret the Constitution rather than leaving it to SCOTUS as the unifying authoritative interpreter! Without which, Protestantism has inflected upon itself confusion, division & scandal of 000’s of sects, caused by personal interpretation, which is not of Jesus who willed unity Jn 17:11-23

[@Fiona2254]

Personal interpretation implies that I can, all on my own without knowing context geography history language and the Jewish culture and Torah, can figure it all out without any help. The amount of pride needed is outrageous. Some things in the Bible are simple to understand but there is depth to all of it beyond me. I struggle with pride, I want to know everything. Fortunately He gave me the understanding that faking it is not the thing. I try to never fake it when it comes to faith.

[@timcooper1321]

I totally agree, personal interpretation displays incredible arrogance in that one is the most knowledgeable and important regarding the Bible. It is exemplified first by luther when he rewrites the Bible by removing books that had been used since the Latin Vulgate and luther through his "influences" leads many away from the Church and in many cases to atheism.

[@johornbuckle5272]

Tell me where i am wrong. My pastor taught for over 50 years. Most weeks 7 times per week 6 days per week. He taught from greek and hebrew. He gave chapter and verse quotations and we looked them up. If i thought he was wrong, i'd check the concordance, look at other commentaries ( catholic and protestant) and then would conclude we disagreed. I never brought it up. He was sent for his work and i mine. Your man Joe has some good thinking sometimes. I do not need the rcc, christian catholics are my brothers, rcc is a trainwreck

[@tony1685]

@@johornbuckle5272 i'd say it's like a house, we start with a foundation of Truth, of stone. when we see how catholicism teaches contrary God's Commandments, it's clear that you're correct. God's church abides by all Ten -- Matt 5:18-19, Luke 16:17, yet they mysteriously teach contrary Ex 20:8-11.

[@datalore8270]

@@tony1685 Please no one be fooled by this false teaching. Search for the Shameless Popery video on Seventh Day Adventists and learn to avoid false prophets and false teachers. God bless!

[@MillionthUsername]

@@johornbuckle5272 Where you and your pastor are wrong is in thinking that Christianity is reducible to ones personal interpretation of Scripture, that every individual is somehow a stand-alone authority who can override the Church established by Christ.

[@lukeohanlon2960]

Bryan Cross's objection is terribly wrong because when I was becoming Catholic, my interpretation did not closely confirm to the Church’s interpretation of scrupture. That conformity came later. The realization that the Catholic Church was the Church Jesus founded and the early Christians sounding incredibly Catholic is why I became Catholic. I still had hurdles to overcome with the Church's interpretation of some essential teachings on the Eucharist and Mary etc.

[@hometownapologist7879]

Dr. Cross would agree with you. He is an ex-Reformed theologian who became Catholic back in the early 2000’s. What Joe put up on the screen was Cross’s articulation of the Protestant argument

[@killianmiller6107]

It could be argued that while you struggled with understanding how certain doctrines of the church (and to an extent every single doctrine the church has ever taught) aligned with your interpretation of scripture, your personal interpretation was still led by the motives of credibility to at least affirm that the Catholic Church is the true church. After that, everything else followed.

[@georgerafa5041]

My mom left Catholocism for Mormonism way back in the 70s as a kid. We left Mormonism a few years back (thanks be to God) and I've eventually found my way to Catholocism but she has been all over the place from Baptist to 'bible alone nondenom' to rapture on X date wacky groups, to Pentecostal and now she believes religion is evil and she follows some female prophets in South America. It's incredible how ludicrously false they are but my mom sees anything and everything as proof of their sanctity. Don't ever fall for these wolves, brothers and sisters. Their charisma and study of scripture isn't infallible and if anything just proves how much they are like the Pharisees.

[@killianmiller6107]

I have a slightly related problem, my mother has been a Catholic but has recently talked about wacky conspiracy theories like that Francis has been replaced with an actor, flirting with new age beliefs, etc, she stopped going to mass and began telling me she hears from angels. This has severely damaged her relationship with my brother (who she thinks somehow voodoo cursed her) and to an extent myself as well. I’m inclined to think it’s paranoid schizophrenia, I can’t reach her, her friends can’t reach her, it’s tough. Please pray for her.

[@susand3668]

@@killianmiller6107 Yes, you have our prayers.

[@georgerafa5041]

@@killianmiller6107 sorry to hear that man. I wish the best for your family

[@Baraodojaguary]

My mom is also new age i pray everyday for her conversion

[@samuelnicacio4621]

HE DON'T MISS

[@ashtree5957]

Welcome back to shameless potpourri Welcome back to Shamus Popri I'm Joe Hesar I love the auto subtitles

[@MythwrightWorkshop]

That was that pleasant smell!

[@olwethuphiri4177]

One of the things I am happy about in the journey into Catholicism is having to lower the burden of being my own Pope, having to feel bad about not understanding scripture or being tossed here and there because I am choosing what to believe and what not to believe. Now I have come to know about the Church fathers and their teachings, which has been of tremendous help.

[@jpb9198]

Anyone who rejects history and 2000 years of theological development for their own interpretation falls in the left part of the Dunning-Kruger effect graph (high confidence, low knowledge). The hubris it takes to believe you can properly discern the faith alone is is astounding.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Ego abounds.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Personal interpretation is inevitable; the difference is how we respond to our personal interpretations. Protestants must applaud those who follow their personal interpretations out of their former churches. They can disagree on the interpretation, but they cannot fault someone for following their divergent interpretation out of communion. To the contrary, if a Catholic follows their divergent personal interpretation out of the Church, their fellow Catholics disagree with them BOTH on their interpretation AND in their decision to break communion. Catholics can privately hold disagreements, but they publicly accept the interpretive bounds established by the Church and remain in communion. In this regard, Protestants function like an activist group whereas Catholics function like a family. When activists disagree, they (eventually) separate into different groups. When family disagrees, the family stays together and patiently works through their disagreements.

[@Theosis_and_prayer]

Great observation 👍

[@johornbuckle5272]

How you gonna work through your problems with bergoglio. Do nothing is the catholic way. You follow men at all costs instead of your saviour

[@Theosis_and_prayer]

@@johornbuckle5272 There's no problems. He's a bad Pope. Just like Judas was a bad apostle.

[@georgefuentes4112]

@@Theosis_and_prayerI lean more towards him being a pope versus a great pope.

[@datalore8270]

@@johornbuckle5272 "You follow men at all costs instead of your saviour" Just out of curiosity, which leaders do you obey per Hebrews 13:17? Do you submit to their authority? Do you believe obedience means "only when you agree"?

[@Vaughndaleoulaw]

If you hold to sola Scriptura and the perspicuity of scripture, then your personal interpretation of scripture not only can dictate all aspects of your theology, but it necessarily MUST be the sole arbiter of your theology.

[@datalore8270]

When all you have is infallible truth filtered through fallible people, in practice there is no infallible authority. Only fallible interpretations.

[@josephgoemans6948]

​@@datalore8270 Except the Catholic claim is that the Holy Spirit protects and brings us into all truth as per Christ's promises

[@christopherpowell1950]

Man this was a great teaching brother! Seems like Mr Ortland is trying to turn protestantism catholic from the inside and he don't even realize it lol

[@fantasia55]

Gavin claims to speak for all Protestants.

[@violetd3487]

I love your channel and the way that you explain things in detail. I'm learning a lot. Thank you.

[@valwhelan3533]

True - the problem is obedience, not understanding. Someone once said (I paraphrase) - "it's not the parts of the bible I don't understand that I have a problem with, it's the parts I DO understand.

[@tonyl3762]

Really sharp fundamental video. Definitely worth sharing.

[@dynamic9016]

Really appreciate this video.

[@doinic09]

I can already smell tony coming to reply to every comment on this video on how the RCC changed the sabbath

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Tony, the ex-Catholic who went to seminary and almost became a priest, but is now an SDA heretic? That Tony?

[@Mrs.BrittSherwood]

Just was talking about this very thing to my mom (protestant) about our neighbor (JW). Very timely.

[@patrickdtx3638]

Excellent topic; it’s more or less what brought me to considering and converting to Rome 😉. I’m a few weeks into OCIA and trying not to wish the year away to get to Easter quicker.

[@geoffjs]

Saviour the journey & learn on the way!

[@patrickdtx3638]

@@geoffjs Definitely trying to do that.

[@rushmonk3545]

Directions unclear… Now believe the earth is a disc. Thanks as always for your content! Appreciated the subject and presentation

[@SterlingJames]

God Bless you and your family Joe.

[@Mr.Anglo1095]

Joe has indisputably taken the crown of best modern Catholic apologist, he’s so far ahead. Great stuff as always

[@TheFarmerTed]

Such a good video! Thank you Joe!

[@Jon-LJsm]

Thank you for the analysis

[@nocturne2029]

Re: "Rome" as a pejorative, I have been very bothered by the Protestant tendency to call it the "Roman catholic" church or just simply "Rome" since it necessarily inserts a certain level of fundamental disrespect into the conversation. But your point about it really changed my perspective! I hope going forward I'll be less bothered by it.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Its also a dishonest claim, as prior to 1054, the Western Catholic Church was united with the Eastern Catholic Church. Post schism, the Western Catholic Church remained united with parts of the Eastern Catholic Church. The Catholic Church currently consists of 1 Western Rite Catholic church and 23 Eastern Rite Catholic churches.

[@abidethefire]

"The problem isn't that we are like sheep. The problem is that Christ calls us to be like sheep." 🔥🔥🔥❤‍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 This episode is definitely my favorite of favorites. Hopefully this is a sample of a future book project. Hopefully Shameless Popery takes some of the best episodes and converts them to a text format that can be published as a book of essays. Keep slaying those dragons. ⚔👍👍

[@Ancient_Man_In_Modern_World]

J.C Ryle: “The early fathers were wrong, the reformers were wrong, later Calvinists were wrong. . As for me? Well.. Just heed me and you’ll be alright…” -Every Protestant Reformer Ever

[@marjakajmajkell2189]

I love you Videos! God bless you!

[@eliwithgod4848]

Some authorities in the Church make me wonder about other religions/denominations. Almost immediately, I am reminded of who founded this Church, especially after looking into others'ever changing colorful doctrines. Nothing gives you the strength, security and peace the Catholic Church does. The daily battering she goes through, even within it's own authority. Yet, her doctrine doesn't change, only reaffirmed.

[@pstrzel]

Another great vid from Shamus Popri.

[@BlankPaperFilms]

I used my personal interpretation to determine this is the true video that Joe uploaded. Therefore I place my full comment on this video, knowing it is the actual video Joe posted.

[@Eracruz30]

As always, it is not either/or, it is both/and. Scripture and Tradition, Faith and Works, Faith and Reason, Eucharist and Re-presentation, Memorial and Thanksgiving, Sacrifice and Worship, etc., etc.! GOD bless you always, all of you in Catholic Answers!

[@timrichardson4018]

I don't remember who said it. But someone said to Luther that every heresy there ever was has found scripture to support it.

[@christianmaestas4435]

Something that should help this is mentioning the modern usage of the terms objective and subjective. Moderns tend to see objective as “literal fact” and subjective as “personal feeling”. This is different from objective being “of the object” and subjective as “of the subject”. Objective faith is the object of our faith. Subjective faith is the faith of us, the subjects in relation to the object of faith.

[@ToddJambon]

When Jesus began His ministry and sent the Apostles out to preach the good news, which is more likely? That Jesus gave them carte blanche to interpret OT Scripture and Jesus' teachings how they wanted? Or that Jesus brought them together and made sure they were all teaching the same thing based on His authority? I would guess everyone would answer option 2, because Jesus would not want to be misunderstood more than He already was. So why is today's world okay with the idea of different denominations that all have their different interpretations of Scripture? I could honestly understand if we only had two Churches: Catholic (including Orthodox) and Lutheran, especially if the Lutheran Church had elected its own pope that was inline with their thinking. But I can't fathom how we are to think it's okay to have so many Churches teaching so many different things.

[@geoffjs]

Protestantism logic to justify the scandal of 000’s of sects which is not of Jesus who willed unity Jn 17:11-23

[@markwilson1724]

You'd be doomed reading the New Testament Churches 😅

[@marcondespaulo]

Wow. I'm happy to be so early to great video. Nevermind it is a bit long. I like deep dives!

[@Darth_Vader258]

Jesus Christ ✝️ founded the Catholic Church upon Saint Peter the Rock 🪨 in 33 AD.

[@phillipkapler8319]

Excellent talk. In discussions with Protestants, it is important that we not fall into tit-for-tat polemics, but a dialogue with a common objective - discerning Truth. That however, must not lead us into the other, even worse form of discourse; the trap of wanting to get along so much that we descend into a posture of equivalence, which breeds relativistic valuation of alternative points of view. Catholicism embodies the objective Truth not discovered by men, but directly revealed and taught by Christ. If one is arguing about Christian tenets, one cannot, in sincerity, surrender ground on that fact.

[@gainsofglory6414]

I absolutely hate the "sheep going over the hill" argument. They never think, maybe going over the hill is the right thing to do? The types of people that use that argument tend to just be contrarians doing no level of thinking for themselves, they just do the opposite of what people do. They don't go over the hill just to spite the sheep going over the hill, not because they did any thinking of their own. It turns out only one option is true and right, and its probably not the one you make up when you rely all on your own mired and limited thinking. Maybe let your reasoning do the job instead.

[@shamelesspopery]

Quite right! If all of the sheep are going in a specific direction, and you decide to go in the opposite direction, it sounds like you're the lost sheep of the parable going astray (Luke 15:1-7). It's bizarre and arrogant to assume that the flock is going astray, and you're the one sheep going the right way.

[@famemolto]

@@shamelesspoperyI can’t tell you how many times I have been grateful to God for giving me the fortitude to NOT follow the herd - especially with regard to the last 4 years. My family has benefited enormously.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

​​@@famemolto Which herd did you go against? The herd of modern secular society? The herd of degenerate corporates? The herd of disobedient 'Bible-only' sheep? The FLOCK being talked here is the group of sheep that obeys Jesus Christ and the authority of the shepherds selected by God the Holy Spirit himself, Acts 20:28.

[@josephmarx5139]

Great stuff, Joe, as always. A Latinist's quibble: to think of "fides quae" as the Faith we believe, Latin syntax demands it be phrased passively: the faith which is believed. Now, Augustine's Latin is really good, and fidēs quā crēditur (lit. "faith by which it is believed) IS best rendered "the faith by which one believes" or "we believe," where the mediopassive is used impersonally. But fidēs quae crēditur is truly passive, and divorced from its verb makes no sense as "the faith we believe." Quibbles aside, thank you for this exploration of intellectual submission.

[@kylej.reeves4268]

As one who came to the Catholic Church after 40 years a Baptist, I can tell you there were many doctrines I had to accept as a matter of faith in the church, rather than seeing them in scripture. I later came to understand scriptural support for these doctrines, but I had to ignore my own discomforts and trust that the church Jesus established had the authority to declare these doctrines.

[@geoffjs]

Well said, with humility which is what is required to obtain understanding. Prideful seeking of understanding before believing doesn’t work! Believe & you will understand!

[@roxanaconception]

Mr. Heschmeyer, Also I have learned from Dr. Bergsma…. That the it is very important what particular Bible is read, specifically because there are Bibles that are more accommodating to Protestants than others….

[@JudithGloria-ex1vk]

Praise to God Almighty!!!!'m favoured, $140k every 3weeks! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America 🇺🇸❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@AuroraFrancesca-bk9pd]

God bless you more abundantly for your generosity

[@AuroraFrancesca-bk9pd]

But then, what do you do? How do you come about that in that period?

[@JudithGloria-ex1vk]

Thanks to God, my daughter who introduced me into the digital market. Moreso, thanks to Ms *Kathleen Mary Vella*

[@JudithGloria-ex1vk]

It is the digital market. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US amd abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus

[@user-cr8bs4jc5c]

Big thanks to Ms *Kathleen Mary Vella*

[@kennethyakovac665]

I recently came across your channel and it's become my go to for understanding Roman Catholic teachings. Thanks for doing this. I'm not convinced yet, but I plan to keep watching. Determining precisely what that objective faith is seems to be the task at hand.

[@geoffjs]

Suggest that you also follow Pints with Aquinas, Jim Papandrea, St Paul Center, Scott Hahn, Brant Petrie etc

[@kennethyakovac665]

@@geoffjs thanks!

[@iohannesfactotum]

Well that's just, like, your opinion, man

[@guyguytchombi5425]

😂😂😂

[@joseperez8862]

Well then, you agree or disagree go ahead make your own video

[@Ruudes1483]

@@joseperez8862It’s a quote from a movie

[@joseperez8862]

@@Ruudes1483 you're quoting a movie, nice exegesis. "Live long and prosper" that's really helpful, try this quote," he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life in him"

[@Ruudes1483]

@@joseperez8862 I’m Catholic. I was just pointing out that the original comment is a quote from a movie, specifically The Big Lebowski. I assume he was playing off the topic of the video, personal interpretation, which could also be called “an opinion”.

[@yblackie]

8:31 How about Galatians 1:8? That does say "be more skeptical of the apostles" since Paul is telling them to not trust anyone UNLESS they fulfill some criteria

[@LarsJohnson-ro1zc]

Joe has helped me figure out what the church established by Jesus is. Wish I had a way to thank him.

[@TheShard1771]

Thank you Joe!

[@vtaylor21]

Putting so much emphasis on personal interpretation and ignoring historical interpretation shows the prideful nature of a person. 2 Peter 3:16 warned about this, and it is totally ignored.

[@sebastiankaczmarek635]

Just because person A from the past interpreted bible as A does not mean that Person B from the present will be Wrong with his interpretation on A

[@Vaughndaleoulaw]

@@sebastiankaczmarek635But, that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about when people ignore the historical consensus.

[@vtaylor21]

@@sebastiankaczmarek635 What if Person B in the present has an interpretation that is contradictory to the historical interpretation of Person A-Z?

[@sebastiankaczmarek635]

@@Vaughndaleoulaw What historical consensus? Modern historians and bible experts that are catholic, protestant, etc did demolish many old interpretations, 1 such example is 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 did paul really state that women should me silent in the church? what about extra bibilical evidence from modern consensus that developed over decades that state otherwise? Please watch video on this topic on channel called history for atheists named was paul a sexist? You will be surprised and then below their video you will see link to his academic article where he shows that many modern scholars came to similair conclusion. Also read up on other Catholic and i remind you CATHOLIC historians that posit the same thing for example look for academic book called hidden history of women ordination created by Gary Macy ( Catholic ). He simply cites hundreds of documents of early catholic church that were writen between 500 ce and 1100 ce. God bless.

[@sebastiankaczmarek635]

@@vtaylor21 Is truth revealed by majority opinion? What if most people from the past were in error on some passages? you can't answer this question without using argument from authority that is a logical fallacy. Your arguments need to show why person A-Z was right and that's also a personal intrepretaion of not only Scripture but also history and i doubt that many Catholics are profesional historians to decide what specific saint really had in mind, When profesionals spent many years just to understand few passages from thomas aquinas alone.

[@bombastoid]

Great video - answers many of my questions. Some groups I wish had been included: believers who weren't blessed like Timothy by being born into the faith; believers who have strong subjective faith but struggle with doubt because of atrocities committed against their ancestors by the Catholic Church; believers who have subjective faith and find it challenging to trust/join the existing branches of Christianity and so trust God will make their situation right on the day of his coming. I have also sometimes wondered, perhaps if St. Paul can serve as a stand-in for Christian evangelization, we can glimpse how the "invisible" church can assume multiple forms. He says he became all things to all men in order to win them to Christ. He talks about not wanting to know anything but Christ and him crucified. He uses different approaches to evangelize people while keeping the essential Gospel intact. So maybe the Baptist church is Jesus' way of reaching that one group Catholicism could never reach; perhaps the Methodist church is Christ's hand reaching out to that one group who would otherwise not grasp it, etc. Jesus himself didn't use the same method to win souls. He didn't take a one-size fits all approach, did he? Look at the way he won people through parables, others through healing, others through convicting like the woman caught in adultery, the woman at the well, etc. He even won the Canaanite woman by initially rejecting her. Look at how he wins Zacchaeus. Also, aren't there biblical examples of people having strong and even weak personal subjective faith and it being sufficient for salvation? For example, the Ephesus Dozen come to mind. Another example is the unknown group of men casting out demons in Jesus' name and Jesus advising his disciples against opposing those who are working for him. I also know about an OT example - Naaman the leper who God heals by bathing in the Jordan. The Bible says Naaman expresses before Elisha a sort of anticipatory prayer for forgiveness, that God may forgive him when he returns to his master and he worships God in a pagan place of worship (2 Ki. 5.17-18). The video is thought-provoking. Thanks for that.

[@Staarker99]

Brilliant mate, I’ll use some of this for precise clarification, been doing Catholic apologetics for 40 years now, and you’ve made very clear points I can use.

[@peterzinya1]

precise clarification, ? This guy twisted and misquoted scripture. I guess thats why you love it.

[@Staarker99]

@@peterzinya1 You weren’t paying attention obviously.

[@peterzinya1]

@@Staarker99 The passage says scripture is of no PRIVATE interpretation, not personal. So you havent paid attention to scripture. You love the lies this guy rolls out.

[@Staarker99]

@@peterzinya1 It’s the same thing.

[@peterzinya1]

@@Staarker99 The devilish CC says only thieir magisterium knows what scripture really means and no one else. That means it is private to them. Only they can know. Peter warned us about thats. Personal means you and me and everyone. The CC wants to keep its flock from reading the bible. Its bad for business.

[@janestclair3650]

This we would make a good 20 Answers booklet.. especially the quotes about the Faith

[@E-pistol]

Prots have no respect.

[@peterzinya1]

Catholics say all prots are going to hell. Hows that for disrespect?

[@johornbuckle5272]

Mel Gibson and I have no respect! For the pope

[@mussman717word]

​@@johornbuckle5272 Nobody cares what Mel Gibson thinks. How is that relevant? 🤣

[@Test-o9l]

My personal interpretation pitted against another personal interpretation of a fallible interpreter is like dividing zero by zero. It will not work

[@geoffjs]

There are 24 cultural Catholic rites including the Western or Latin rite all in uni9n with Rome! Beats the confusion, division & scandal of 000’s of Protestant sects caused by personal interpretation which is not of Jesus who willed unity Jn 17:11-23

[@Chicken_of_Bristol]

Apparently, according to the Protestant logic, the person who decides "I want to go to school so that people can teach me how to do astrophysics" is in the same epistemic boat as the person who makes KZbin videos arguing that the Earth is flat.

[@johornbuckle5272]

When my first pastor was alive he taught 7 times per week, 6 days per week. I accepted nearly all his teaching. If i thought he had it wrong, i thought okay and moved on. He read greek and hebrew and taught scripture from those languages. We looked up scriptures he quoted and checked lexicons and other commentaries. If i reject true teaching thats on me. I lose blessing and gain discipline. There is no incentive for me to twist scripture.

[@gardengirlmary]

​@@johornbuckle5272 well said

[@lukeohanlon2960]

Love these topics 🎉

[@Jusoon]

I find it interesting that he uses "sheep" in the pejorative. We are all Christ's flock, are we not?

[@1901elina]

​@@billie5057 he ain't wrong, doe lol

[@cristinamz2137]

I didn't get that at all. We are meant to be sheep, Jesus' sheep who hear and recognize His voice.

[@hyeminkwun9523]

No, we are not all His sheep. His sheep is only those sheep in His Fold, which are members of His Church, and that's why Our Lord said, "Other sheep, which do not belong to My Fold, MUST be led to it so that they will hear My Voice and there will be One Flock and One Shepherd (John 10:16)." Our Lord laid down His Life for His sheep (John 10:11,15), not for All sheep. That's why Our Lord also said, "This is My Blood of the Covenant, which will be shed for MANY (not All) for the forgiveness of sins (Matt 26:28)."

[@mohann2007]

Yup, that's my case. I see stupidity everywhere, I hardly am the sheep kind for human shepherds. So I became a "non-denominational" or a "nonyabusiness" person. Lately though, for the last month or so, I have been attending to the catholic mass, trying to keep my ego in check for its excesses.

[@tacticalinsanity7375]

God has blessed us with your humility, knowledge and presentation. Thank you.

[@johnchrysostom330]

With Joe, every video is like a thesis.

[@mikeyangel1067]

Joe, excellent point and insight: May God continue to bless ur heart

[@michaelbaker2552]

As a Catholic, I have read the bible and studied it when can. The idea that my personal interpretation is as sharp as people like Augustine, Thomas Aquinas or you, for that matter, people who have studied, contemplated, checked, rechecked and made it their life's work is patently ridiculous. The idea that I could match the Magisterium of the Church is beyond belief. To believe such would be the height of hubris and also of ignorance. I will gladly take whatever help the Lord will provide.

[@norala-gx9ld]

Very helpful, thank you. Question: Does what you’ve said work equally well as an apology for Eastern Orthodoxy? Or does this get someone all the way to the Papacy?

[@EmmaBerger-ov9ni]

With Pints with Aquinas, there used to be a Marco Polo group for protestants considering Catholicism. Is there anything else like that available nowadays?

[@MrRotwell]

Great stuff as always.

[@jediv9910]

*Two or more Scriptures saying the same teachings proves a doctrine. No need interpretation.* 😊

[@janestclair3650]

Joe you are excellent,,,,one reason is because you are likeable

[@popcornchicken6750]

Thank you redeemed zoomer has been making this argument lately and I didn’t have a good response

[@NuLeif]

So true. Naturally man wants to follow a leader only if they agree with him. “Catholics are not-repeat not-to exercise a private judgment over Catholic faith and morals which would lead them, in matters subject to interpretation, to evade the responsibility of obeying their legitimate ecclesiastical superiors.” - Jeffrey Mirus Ph.D

[@johornbuckle5272]

Jawohl, mein Herr

[@kylemiller6368]

Like 2 minutes in and this already resonates. This exact thing happened to me as a Presbyterian who revered St Augustine. How did I relate to him? How did I relate to others after him who shared his views?

[@stefanielozinski]

So many Protestant arguments still rest on a mental framework of sola scriptura, it’s so hard to get past that viewpoint when you’ve been raised with it.

[@j897xce]

There is a newer Protestant channel, believe the gentleman's name is Javier. He did a 3+ hour video trying to debunk you, Joe. The comments were a bunch of support of him as exoected. I don't get it. It seemed he was doing whatever he accused you of. This video is a timely reaponse on accident. The ability to settle the matter between christians is the point, not that I settle it perfectly. His video strengthened my Catholic faith but it may be a cool video to sift through and respond.

[@ArkansasJaKeAustin]

I knew a guy who actually gouged out his right eye in the middle of a sermon on "...if your right eye offends you..." Very important to know when to take something litterally or figuratively.

[@georgefuentes4112]

🫨😧🫨

[@EBBFrago]

But how will he take the log out of his other eye instead of fixating on the splinter in mine?

[@BensWorkshop]

Good work Joe!

[@allopez8563]

I prefer the word private.

[@kimrose2288]

Favorite crazy fan from Eucharistic Congress here. Pontious Pilate makes your point best, perhaps. "What is truth?"

[@tamarawinget]

Thanks, Joe. I have a long line of every ilk of Protestantism since the 1600s except for one Irish line. My predominant upbringing for 35 years was Baptist/Presbyterian. I so appreciate your videos. I came to Catholicism in 2022 in my 50s, after studying with NTWright and other conservative anglicans. I’m a direct descendant of Margaret Fox “mother of Quakerism”. The Blessed Mother hasn’t been a problem for me! While I disagree with women in authority I found the deep honor and veneration for women and the Blessed Mother, easy. My Question: My Mennonite ancestors were the first in 1688 to object to slavery. As were most Quakers. My other Protestant ancestors were slave owners. I’d like to know the Catholic position on slavery and their practice. I’m aware Catholic Florida seemed to shelter escaped slaves. I’m interested not in a social perspective but from a theological practice. 🙏🙏. Did some mainline Protestantism have a link to slavery? My Mennonite/Quakers were deeply opposed. My Anglican ancestors were very much for the plantation industry in VA with some notable (blackballed) exceptions. It reminds me of the topic of abortion and how we view the sanctity of life. Until recently Catholics and some protestants were clear. What of the position on slavery?

[@alhilford2345]

You might like the book: "TWISTED UNTO DESTRUCTION, How 'Bible Alone' Theology Made the World a Worse Place" By Donald J. Johnson. Published by Catholic Answers Press. It covers the first recorded slave ship from Africa in 1619, and how the Bible was used to justify the slave trade. The author is a former Evangelical Protestant.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

​​@@alhilford2345how the Bible was perverted* to justify the slave trade. I think its worth clarifying that the Bible was perverted (Bible sections being deleted etc) by slave owners so they could justify their heinous practices.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Hi Tammy, there is a good article, 'Did the Church Ever Support Slavery?' by Steve Weidenkopf on Catholic Answers. This should give you a good starting point on your excellent question.

[@tamarawinget]

@@alisterrebelo9013 awesome! Thanks so much!

[@eplongmichael8880]

Another instructive video, Joe. Clear, factual, sensible. But would protestants believe? We must continue to pray that God would lift the veil that blindfolds them? Or is it pride?

[@phillipkapler8319]

If you are a Protestant who believes their choice of denomination is the one closest to the true and undiluted teaching of Christ, you must, at some point, confront the fact that there was one Catholic Church for 1,500 years, and there are now 45,000 Protestant denominations that each assert that theirs is the confession that most meets that criterion. Such a person cannot claim that their's is the form of Christianity instituted by Christ. So how can one make such an assertion without examining all the alternatives and defining where it is that their theology has gone awry? Only in a cocoon of ignorance could one be confident making such an assertion.

[@geoffjs]

There are 24 cultural Catholic rites including the Western or Latin rite all in uni9n with Rome! Beats the confusion, division & scandal of 000’s of Protestant sects caused by personal interpretation which is not of Jesus who willed unity Jn 17:11-23

[@Maranatha99]

Opposition to the Roman church had started several centuries prior to the Reformation

[@Maranatha99]

Pls, go to the website of the main Protestant denominations: PCA, Baptist, Methodist, Mennonite, Pentecostal, & Lutheran. Check the lists of their essentials, compare them, and tell me if you get 45,000 different doctrines.

[@geoffjs]

@@Maranatha99 The fact that you list 6 competing traditions says it all! Jesus created His One Holy Church which Protestantism has chosen to ignore & walk away from which is heretical!

[@Maranatha99]

@geoffjs competing????? My goodness!!! How little you know about Protestant denominations. Pls, allow meto quicklyo explain to you how denominations work. 1x week I attend a Bible study for women at a nearby church that belongs to a denomination different than mine.Anotherr of the ladies is not a member of that church either. BUT we all feel at home because it’s the same faith, the same Jesus, the same Spirit, the same hope, the same doctrine, and the same Scriptures. The denominational differences are completely unessential, and not part of our conversation -infant baptism yes or not, free will or election, participating in the military or not-. My 20 yr. old son goes to 2 different Bible studies -if his schedule allows it-. One of them is in a church of a different denomination than ours, and the other one is in a non-denominational church. He feels at home in both bc He is studying the Word of God with good teachers and with other young men his age. The same doctrine, the same Jesus, the same Spirit. 1x month, my pastor meets with about 15 other pastors from the same area, all from different denominations, or without one. They rejoice in their common faith. R Catholics tend to think that denominations are almost like different religions. Not at all. The differences are normally in non-essentials, like you have in the different religious orders inside the RCC.

[@kurtschneider4202]

The argument that Catholics and Protestants are in the same interpretive position also proves too much. In a very broad understanding, every proposition and every experience is necessarily viewed through my own personal interpretation. In other words, we can not step out of ourselves and use someone else's faculty of reason or see the world through their subjective experience. However, if you push this to the extreme, you end up with Solipsism and Subjectivism.

[@shamelesspopery]

Right. Whether you believe in Scriptural inspiration and inerrancy or not, your belief is not ITSELF inerrant and divinely inspired (at least in the same sense that Scripture is). You could have mistaken beliefs about a divinely inspired and inerrant object. That doesn't put you on the same footing as someone who rejects inerrancy/inspiration. It's weird to me how many people can recognize this point and not see that this is the same false equivalency being used against the infallibility/personal interpretation argument.

[@ptolemy91]

One thing that this discussion misses is that most people throughout history stay in the religion in which they are born. We are not blank slates but grow up in a community and religous background which shapes our understanding. Those born in Christian households usually submit to their parents' and faith community's beleifs. The question for all Christians is why does the Holy Spirit seem to be working to bring people to salvation in multiple denominations. If there truely is only one correct church, why doesn't God limit himself to only those Christians?

[@george484-ns7ck]

The catholic argument isn't that we follow the early church so we're correct. We do but that's not the argument. Those who say they follow the early christians are the closest to the early christians while not themselves being the early chrsitians. Us catholics claim WE ARE the early chrisitans, orthodox follow what we taught. And seeing as Jesus started the catholic church, all Christian denominations follows catholic saints and catholic pope. The aposltes are catholic and Peter is the pope. Hopefully that makes sence.

[@geraldhill7547]

The beauty of the internet is all the best minds from the past and present can connect to interpret. The internet is a million times better than the Library of Alexandria. The problem is we as humans are not objective and have so many biases and emotions. We even try to use those emotions to make people feel they don't have the resources to objectively interpret. Even AI interprets differently according to programming and the way we ask questions. God bless us all who search The Way.

[@bencook6585]

This is why I have never been convinced (in my looking into and conversion to Catholicism) by protestant proof texts. Its very obvious when you say, "Guys this is in our bible too and the church affirms it." Therefore, there must be a way you don't know to reconcile the verse and the church. And sure enough, there always is.

[@shamelesspopery]

Precisely! Almost invariably, when someone says "X verse *clearly* disproves such-and-such a Catholic teaching," it turns out that they aren't even aware of what Catholics would say in response. And once they find out that there's a sane way that Catholics read the same text (simply interpreting them differently), those "clear" disproofs never quite seem to hold up...

[@bencook6585]

@shamelesspopery I've found it most beneficial, being the only catholic (save my wife and kids) in 2 families (mine and hers) of hardcore protestants, just avoiding arguments from the bible as to which side is right altogether. It ends up always becoming a matter of "Well that's not what this verse means", which ironically proves the need for an interpreter. I've found more success arguing from history and external sources that demonstrate how scripture was interpreted and applied in history, instead of just throwing proof texts at each other. I just find it interesting how we have to use non-biblical sources to determine what the bible really meant.. almost as if.. and infallible source of interpretation is required

[@Koyasama]

At the risk of slinging proof-texts, I've never seen a Protestant argument on this issue that isn't refuted by 2 Pt 3:16. They make take offense to the idea that they are among the "ignorant and unstable" who "distort the Scriptures to their own destruction" (so might we, for that matter) but they can't disprove it--not for themselves, and certainly not for everyone else, as would have to be the case for their theories to be true.

[@johnnyvo2494]

THANK YOU for uploading this This was a very popular thought in my mind lately When people go off sola scriptura being the ultimate authority (it doesn’t mean only authority as Protestants claim) they REALLY mean their personal interpretation is the ultimate authority

[@gardengirlmary]

Can you give me an example on an issue that is a matter of personal authority

[@johnnyvo2494]

@@gardengirlmary yeah. I think it’s pretty simple. Since the Protestant branch doesn’t get together and figure out matters but only go off scripture and not church history Ancient heresies come up And new churches of constantly popping up. New denominations popping up. I’m not gonna exaggerate it’s 40k denominations cuz that’s not true but it’s a lot

[@gardengirlmary]

@johnnyvo2494 that's a common characiture. I know this is a RC forum so I don't expect people who comment to have much understanding of a Protestant point of view. I think there are a lot of RC... is believer a word used .... would you say RC believer? Anyway I know there are a lot of Protestants and RCs who probably do have many things in common. The most important being our faith in Jesus and that He is our Savior. I am trying to understand th RC point of view. In the past, there has been a lot of contempt. But I wish you well johnnyvo