WHY Do I Turn RIGHT When I Brake?!

[@jamesrichardson1901]

The biggest difference between novice and expert mechanics is diagnostic ability, much of which comes from experience. Y'all are well on your way now. Great job!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you! We're definitely always learning!

[@edbenti5007]

100% agreed. The mark of a journeyman auto mechanic is his or HER understanding of the basic physics involved, electro-mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic etc. Less than that is an installer.

[@vicsspeedperformance950]

A must when dealing with breaks to make sure you have the right parts. Great job with Carl glad to see him stopping correctly go Pops and Ellie 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!!

[@StevesConsul]

When you realise you have fixed a problem that's taken a long time to diagnose is the greatest feeling in the world. I always say that lump of metal didn't beat me :) Keep up the good work I love watching your videos.

[@clifc6351]

Awesome outcome. Congrats for figuring it out. Bummer the parts guy who sold you the stuff didnt catch it. Thanks for teaching us through your experience. Good Job.

[@ronskopitz2360]

Way to persevere, guys!! One of those rare cases where too much information was a bad thing. I’m so impressed you figured it out - I’d still have been driving around with a pull to right and just “dealing with it” 😂

[@williamgreen1489]

Great diagnostics and team work!! Love that you do your own work, it certainly pays off in the end, well done!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you very much!

[@curtodell4154]

drum brakes are a challenge for many people . for a couple of relative newcomers you are doing awesome figuring this stuff out . i know you said your going disk eventually you will love the simplicity and maintenance . its an excelent upgrade for 6 or 8 cyl engines

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you so much for the encouragement!!

[@curtodell4154]

@@ElliesGarage you are welcome keep up the good work

[@denisgauthier3410]

Well done! Your patience and perseverance paid off. Cheers!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@antartorres7594]

Is so satisfying when you find and fix the problem and your car breaks correctly 😀🤩🤩🤩 great job guys 🌟🌟🌟

[@janinedelcamp1941]

So glad you were able to figure out this mystery! I have a '65 Mustang I am restoring and it too is a 6 cylinder, so I when I get to working on my brakes I'll be ahead of the game thanks to you both! Great job!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!!

[@ShopKatIndustries]

Great video, and what a great diagnose!! Those are the hardest kind, but the most gratifying when you finally nail it. I loved this video!

[@kevinbrown1368]

Good stuff for not giving up. And you should also thank Falcon Parts because they really know Falcons and Comets and provide better parts information on their website. I can't say enough that their are regular parts suppliers and then there is Falcon Parts. I needed a simple cap for a valve cover and only the Falcon Parts website showed two views of the different caps which allowed me to clearly identify which was correct and which weren't.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you!! Hope you saw the section in the middle where we talked about Falcon Parts and thanked them. They were a HUGE help in this episode!!

[@jeffsr8300]

I've got an 87 Dodge W-150, not near as rare as Carl but I can fully understand your frustration. Brake parts are VERY specific. Great job Carl's really coming together!!👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you so much!! And good luck on your project!!

[@agooser26]

This is great 👍 I really didn't know that the springs would make such a big difference.

[@michaelau5159]

When I read the title my immediate thought was brake adjustment. When you swapped from side to side I though the shoes might have a different material. When you said it changed back I thought this is a toughy. Matt your detective skills are brilliant, good catch on the 6 and V8 differences.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you so much for your encouragement and great information as always!

[@Brooklyn-bn5go]

Excellent diagnosis/work guys, I love how you two never give up!

[@Paulie1232]

Great detective 🕵️‍♂️ work....

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!!

[@Smithy1962]

Well done figuring this out!!!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you!!!

[@Meenz28]

Time to upgrade to disks? Might be pricy but more reliable. Just a thought.

[@ElliesGarage]

Good idea! We actually already have a Scare Bird disc conversion kit--a viewer donated it and we'll be getting the rest of the parts together for a not-too-far off disc conversion episode.

[@Meenz28]

@@ElliesGarage I can't wait to watch. Keep up the good work. Still enjoying following your journey with every episode.

[@dh2360]

Great detective work, you guys are awesome!

[@rwd2006]

Great job! love watching you guys work so well together.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!

[@jasonrenfro8121]

I have a 1964 falcon 6 cylinder. I have the same problem... I think you guys might have solved it for me too. I'm excited, I've replaced everything you mentioned in the video. :) fantastic.

[@ElliesGarage]

That's amazing that the video might have helped you! I hope it works for you too!!

[@andythebest4632]

Neat that a different spring tension for a bigger drum would do that. Drum brake adjustment is kind of tricky just the slightest of being off and they might pull. Also the primary shoe which is the the front shorter shoe will move first and will pull the back bigger one in the drum. Thats how their designed to function from the factory.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks for that information!

[@auteurfiddler8706]

Since the longer springs were on both sides, I was surprised it pulled to the right because of that. Also, the shorter contact area brake shoe is the front shoe and is called the primary. If the secondary doesn't push out as fast at the primary, you have to remember the primary forces the secondary forward because they are connected and the primary rotates a bit as it hits the moving drum. Something you can't see when the car is stopped and the drum removed. I am kind of thrown by my 10 inch Ford rear drum brakes because the primary and secondary use two different springs, but it sure looks like the distance is equal on both. I'm used to both shoes using the same springs.

[@ElliesGarage]

Yeah, Dad switched around calling them primary and secondary I think. Ha. Not sure why it pulled right, but we felt like the springs were even more loose on the right than on the left. Maybe that would encourage the right shoe to contact just a bit before the left? Not sure, but glad it's fixed!

[@auteurfiddler8706]

@@ElliesGarage My parents had a 63 Falcon wagon 4 door. Sky blue.It was a six so it must have had the smallest brakes. I don't remember them saying the brakes were weak. And my car buddy had the same brakes on a first year Mustang. (He says they are fine, but he doesn't push it. I bought all the parts for the changes listed below but never got around to putting them on.) Still, I'd consider the three way upgrade. 1. front disk (with power booster) with 5 lug wheels, 2. 10 inch drums 3. 8 inch rear axle. They all kind of go together and are extremely common. I don't know if you are getting a deal on the aftermarket disk brake conversion. Also you spent a lot on the four lug wheels.

[@auteurfiddler8706]

Actually, I asked my mom how they could pull a small 16 foot travel trailer. My mom said it wasn't easy and they had problems with the whole drive train. Then she realized I was talking about the Falcon, not the full size 289 V8 Ranch Wagon. She gushed that using the Falcon with the trailer was something they only tried once or twice and it was horrible to even think about .

[@pauldziegielewski9032]

Great job guys!!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!!

[@dougjustdoug6391]

Excellent diagnosis, that's one of those things that drives you crazy because you think you did everything right the first time.

[@kenhorne5650]

I woke up many times that had a solution from a problem.

[@ElliesGarage]

Yes! Shooting for this episode lasted weeks and we got more footage than for just about any other one. Maybe not wiring, but it was close.

[@jimcabezola3051]

I love the thorough and methodical study, analysis, and solutions on your channel! Please...have MORE problems to solve! 😆 🤣 😂 😆 Aloha!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you and there's lots more problems to solve!

[@kenhorne5650]

Reminds me of a story. Had to pick up my dad working in San Francisco financial district. My control arm bushing broke. I could not make a right turn. Have to figure out how to get there only making left turns. So many one way streets was a challenge but then getting home to Daly City.

[@ElliesGarage]

Wow! That must have been crazy!! What a story!!

[@peterjohnson9438]

Nice channel! Good to see young people interested in car mechanicals. Good job getting it fixed! :) I'm having 'Nam flashbacks from the last time I had to putz around with drum brakes, holy hell do those things suck. Praise be to disc brakes.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much! Yep, a disc brake conversion is in our near future.

[@peterjohnson9438]

@@ElliesGarage Disc brake conversions are somewhat expensive and finicky, too - and you're likely to get at least a couple of years of enjoyment out of those drums you installed. At least all the parts are fresh and clean, they should be good to go for several thousand miles. Have fun with Carl, it's a beautiful machine! I'm looking to upgrade the existing brakes in a '91 Toyota Celica GTi; it did come with discs already on it, but the stopping distances leave something to be desired and the handbrake is a drum brake inside of the brake disc. Cheapest upgrade options look to be about ~$2500 or so, just a couple hundred bucks less than what the car was bought for.. and that doesn't include the inevitable brake line replacement that goes with it.

[@vm722]

Awesome video and glad you figured it out. Stuff like this happens. I took a set of brake pads off my 3 quarter ton and autozone switched me and gave me half ton truck brake pads. I didn't really have much brakes and they wore out quickly. Great job with Carl

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much!!

[@libertysgarage8411]

Success!!! It's such a great feeling when ya figure out an issue like that.

[@ElliesGarage]

Right?! It's such a relief!

[@thegimpy1972]

You guy's are sooooo awesome!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks so much for that encouragement!!

[@EB240]

well done

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you!!

[@springman1740]

Great video. Nice work. Awesome.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you very much!

[@edbenti5007]

Ahhh, I remember the joys of DWI, Driving With Insane-drum-brakes. Careful going through water. And of course the camber and caster wheel alignment come next. And if that doesn't cure it, bad tires. Remember dual-servo drum brake action...small shoe front, big shoe rear.

[@tombryant1104]

Good luck(with drums you'll need it). Fifty years ago drum brakes were sorta OK but these days unless components are correct, more often than not there are issues. The '69 Fairlane I bought in '19 had a intermittent pull to right(parts had maybe 1500 miles on them) Rather than spend money fixing drum brakes, I converted it to disc. Hasn't pulled since. NOTE... Without power booster, brake feel will probably be heavier with disc. I knew this going in, one of these days will convert to power brakes.

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you and great info here. When you say that manual discs feel heavier, what does that mean? Thanks again.

[@tombryant1104]

@@ElliesGarage Sorry, I mean pedal requires higher effort, many find it objectionable. Why disc brake vehicles almost always have power brakes, some Hi-Perf vehicles, trucks etc excepted. .

[@ElliesGarage]

@@tombryant1104 Wow. I can't imagine having to push harder than I do now for my drum brakes.

[@tombryant1104]

​@@ElliesGarage Ummm, I dunno if I'm helping. Look into adding power brakes when/if you convert to disc. Being brakes are the most important system on any car, I urge you to enlist help of someone familiar with the conversion. Backing up a little, the non power discs on Fairlane are not appreciably heavier than the previous drums. Now stops far better, without locking up wheels. Discs effort does become less once brakes seat(wear) in. I also have a '69 Torino with factory power disc brakes, those are similar to a modern car. Yeah I get to cheat, when adding power to Fairlane brakes, I'll have Torino to use as pattern.

[@chewybrand238]

Drum brakes are very challenging! Disc brakes are much simpler, but I wouldn't retrofit mine unless I had a stupid amount of horsepower to control!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks for that advice!!

[@Milner62]

Id go so far to argue drums are much simpler than disc brakes as they give you mechanical leverage to apply more force to the brakes with less input effort which is great for manual brake cars. My Fairlane is four wheel manual drums and I wouldnt change it for the world. It stops better than a power disc brake setup with less effort and there is no pull with proper knowledge of how drum brakes work. Yes they require more attention especially if they are not the self adjusting kind like on my Fairlane than disc brakes but Ill take drums over a disc any day as shoes last forever, my Fairlane has shoes on it still like new that were installed back in 1963 as per my service records. I did replace all hardware and hydraulic system components minus the main hardline but I retained the shoes as there was nothing wrong with them.

[@jeffbeitinger6565]

nice job!

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks!

[@maya00795]

Too good..... it's really feel good 👍🏻 superb 🤩🤩 thanks

[@ElliesGarage]

Thanks a lot!! 😊

[@psych3009]

thats why when I work on my vehicles I make sure to compare the old parts to the new (when possible). A tip I learned from ChrisFix

[@ElliesGarage]

YES! We need to remember to do that every time. Great tip!!

[@pascaljeske7307]

Nice Video and you have fix it very good 👍❤️👍

[@ElliesGarage]

Thank you 👍

[@craigdixon4113]

When the Steering Wheel flips back, don’t catch your thumb in the spokes of the wheel! It can be painful. It happened to me on an old Ford Jeep.

[@donniesthing5574]

Wow! What a project! 😆 My Uncle always told me when I have a problem “check stupid stuff first”. He also said to always check the new parts against the old parts to make sure they’re the same. 🤔🤷‍♂️ seems you found the stupid stuff after the panic stuff. It doesn’t matter. You’re learning, and care about learning. Can’t teach folks who don’t wanna learn. 😆 lol. I’m pretty sure we all learn with you. I do. I hate doing brakes. 😠 I like the classic look of the resto on the body, and that electronic dash and classic looking modern radio is very cool too. What sort of mpg are you getting with the Sniper?

[@ljdavick]

I'm thinking that the hub (or spindle) on the driver's side isn't correct - the dust cap didn't fit and the drum was stuck - it looks like the center bore is slightly bigger and holding on to the drum. Of course I'm the poorest shade-tree mechanic you'll ever find, so please take this with a grain of salt! Disks will fix it soon. I can't wait to watch!

[@ElliesGarage]

We've wondered if our hubs are a little off as well. Grease caps have never really fit well. We're planning to switch out for "new to us" hubs when we convert to disc brakes soon. Thanks!!

[@blakeneysanders4264]

Did you change out the springs on the back also? Just curious. Great tech video though. Thank you.

[@ElliesGarage]

Not yet, but we had given them a look when we did the wheels the other month. They looked good. We were changing the fronts because we were getting some shimmying in the wheel when we would brake, so we figured we'd just change everything while we were changing the drums.

[@daledassel5658]

Brakes can be one of the most aggravating systems to deal with.

[@musclebone7875]

Tell me about it! It took me about 2 years to figure out my mess.💯

[@Domestic_Tedster]

What part of VA y'all in? I'm also in Virginia.

[@keithsims86]

It was me I would do a disc brake swap they have the stuff for Falcons.

[@rongamble9884]

Are you still running drum brakes on front

[@ElliesGarage]

For a little while longer, yes. We have a Scare Bird kit that was donated and we're getting our other parts together. Soon enough we'll have discs up front!

[@rongamble9884]

@@ElliesGarage I use to have so many issues with front drums on my 67 mustang especially driving through water

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels

[@Milner62]

Lets do proper diagnostics of the brake system. First thing to do is vice grips on the passenger side brake hose and go for a drive. Verify your vehicle pulls to the left now. This will determine that the left side is actually braking and the pull isnt a result of one side not operating. Second thing to do after that is to check adjustment, with drum brakes a little tighter adjustment on one side will result in a pull to the tighter side. Drum brakes are very notorious for this especially with self-adjusters. Some self-adjusters can actually keep tightening up to the point where they are excessively tight. Some self-adjusters won't adjust and will result in one side tightening and one side not resulting in the pull. It won't be a leak or a air in the lines, the front circuit is linked together and youd have a loss of pressure on both wheels in the circuit and not just one side. Only way you will have a loss on one side is if you have a brake hose that is failed internally creating a check valve effect but that only results in brakes that apply and won't release. On the shoes, they are functioning properly the retainer springs that pulls the shoes in are different pressures, one shoe will move more than the other the purpose of drum brakes like in this case is as the drum rotates the secondary shoe on the front will engage the brake drum which will then rotate the shoes to the rear which applies the primary shoe to the rear with more force into the drum. This is how manufacturers achieved higher brake application with lower effort with manual brakes. In the end this is a big reason why people go with disc brake upgrades but if you do a disc brake upgrade you have to go with a power brake booster as disc brakes require more effort to apply the pads to the rotor. I personally keep all my four-wheel drum brakes because they work properly if you know what you are doing, and they are a steep learning curve. As far as the springs goes, the only way it could have an effect on a pull is if one side spring broke loose first while the other side didn't. That could be a possibility with heavier springs, but I personally have never seen anything but green and yellow return springs for the primary and secondary shoes. I haven't really messed with I6 equipped vehicles that had four-wheel drum brakes though, my four-wheel drum brake vehicles were both V8 and Y8 from the factory and they both used green and yellow return springs. Step 1 and 2 above I would file away cause you will run into this pull again and it wont be the springs next time. It will be a rubber brake hose failing internally, a shoe that is grabbing a lip on the backing plate and not applying, or even a faulty self adjuster. Also a little advice, check online for what is called a Ford Parts and Illustration guide for your vehicle. I have one for all my Ford vehicles, for example for my Fairlane I have one that covers 1949 - 1959 Ford cars that covers all cars from Fairlane to T-bird. I also have one 1980 - 1989 that covers all Trucks and Vans including Bronco. What makes these guides so great is you look up in the illustration guide what you are working on, lets say brakes they show a exploded view of the drum with a reference number. You take the reference number for say a spring and go to the illustration guide and look up that reference number, the reference number denotes the section, number 1000 - 1900 denotes section 10, number 2000 - 2900 denotes section 20, and so on. Once you get to the reference number it then breaks it down by application, year, model, engine option and then gives you a OE part number. You can use this OE part number to source a NOS part in many instances which is what I do or you can go to a company like Dennis-Carpenter that uses the OE part numbering system and search for the part number at a restoration shop such as that. In your case I would probably do a search for the part number and see what comes up cause I am not very big on falcon restoration shops as I am on the full size Ford and truck shops. You can also use this guide to make comparisons, in this case look up the shoe springs for a V8 and a I6 falcon and see if they utilize the same part number, if they use the same part number then it isnt engine specific, typically under engine it will say All in the guide if its not engine specific.

[@ElliesGarage]

WOW. What great information, tips, and advice. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!

[@Ed-ui2qe]

Milner, looks like they got it fixed!

[@Milner62]

@@Ed-ui2qe, Yes they have it fixed. I touched on the spring issue on how I could see it causing the issue they had. Still my two steps still stand cause long as drum brakes stay on this car there will always be the issue of the pull coming back and this time it wont be spring related.

[@Milner62]

@@ElliesGarage, No problem. I don't own anything newer than 1982 and this is also my profession with me mainly focusing on electrical systems and vintage vehicles that majority of others won't or can't work on. I don't know how many times customers are surprised when they find out that we rebuild carburetors cause no other shop does it anymore unless you deal with a shop that only deals with carburetors. Still the car has come a long way and I believe your channel is the one that turned me onto the RTX retro clusters from Dakota Digital as up till then I only knew about the VHX through work as that's what all the customers were bringing in. Trying to badger Dakota into making a RTX cluster for the 80-86 Ford trucks which they don't offer currently. Once I do that, I hope I can get them to be more sensible for the tach and speedometer since we are talking about a truck which shouldn't need an 8,000-rpm tach and a 160-mph speedometer.

[@marshallgibson8872]

All ya had to do was swap a 289 in it and the brakes would have worked since the springs were meant for the v8 lol. Major difference with the spring change

[@ElliesGarage]

😂 Yes! We should have thought of that!

[@robertluich5656]

Use the brake adjuster in the drum will come off

[@ElliesGarage]

Good idea, but it's not pressure from the shoes. It feels more like the drum is sticking around the hub.

[@barrymonroy7138]

You should put on Disc breaks

[@chewybrand238]

I have found that "aftermarket" parts for my 64 Ford Falcon, stock brakes (redone 100%, about 3 attempts), were grossly out of spec. Don't trust any parts unless you get them from a vintage parts dealer. Surprised that you didn't replace ALL of the wheel cylinders.

[@ElliesGarage]

That sounds like good advice. We have the cylinders for the rear brakes, but we haven't got to them just yet. We'll be doing them soon.

[@Milner62]

Have to be careful with parts dealers because they get parts from the same manufacturers in many instances when it comes to mechanical components.

[@michaeldraper60]

its normally because the shoes arnt adjusted properly and are grabbing on one side

[@keithsims86]

Been there.

[@OneMechanic]

Yay 😁👍

[@ElliesGarage]

😀😀

[@LaurensSecretAdmirer]

I can't believe Ford screwed around with 9"vs 10" drum brakes.

[@KekusMagnus]

and this is why disk brakes are better

[@jadesmith6823]

I just want a sandwich 🤷🏻🤦

[@jamesstuart3346]

Maybe someone put a "Trump 2024" sticker on the bumper