Why Do People Pretend to Love Everything?

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The Think Tank has moved to the main channel! Give it a warm welcome by hitting that like button and sharing your thoughts as we explore a possibly uncomfortable topic. Has the rise of fandom culture gone overboard to the point where nothing critical can be said, out of fear of being put on blast? I want to talk about the lasting problems this will create, the blue check mark comment problem, and how important criticism can be in the role of artists improving! (I never would've lasted on KZbin if I hadn't taken some of the negative feedback into account!)
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Question for those who are in a fandom, or maybe have been in the past: what's the vibe when it comes to your favorite artist putting out a song that's less than great? Is it impossible to have a negative thought said on socials, and do you feel pressured to love everything and if you don't it's as if you've done something wrong? Let us know!
#Fandom #Music #TheThinkTank

[@artvjon]

"mAyBe ThEy aCtUaLly JuSt lOvE It?!" - Please, don't. This video exists to discuss the problem with the mindset of basically having to "force yourself" to love everything you hear. Hope you'll take the time to hear my thoughts on it. Honest criticism of art is valuable, just like the art itself 🌟 Also, hey, The Think Tank lives on ARTV instead of BeyondARTV now! These videos often perform well, and I decided it's time to focus on growing one channel at a faster rate than 2 at the exact same time. The less edited, straightforward content like list reactions or track reviews remain on BeyondARTV, while other stuff may shift to the main. Thanks for watching/liking!

[@nightski380]

Sometimes, I don’t know the difference between actually loving something, and pretending to love something. I think I relate more to pretending to hate something. My friends always say that they hate songs and I agree with them in the moment, but later I listen to the song again and it’s actually okay. But the thing is, do I love it or hate it?

[@nightski380]

Also, have you SEEN the KZbin comments for certain bands like OneRepublic and Coldplay? All I see on Run is “Run run run 🔥🔥😍😍”

[@Stefan_Gerards]

@@nightski380 since we’re on the topic of Coldplay - what do you think of Higher Power, Jon? 😂😂

[@nightski380]

@@Stefan_Gerards My dumb a$$ thought you were talking to me and I wondered why you called me Jon

[@artvjon]

@@Stefan_Gerards you're on thin ice neighbor hahaha

[@timidstein888]

The thing I hate is that people either LOVE things, or they HATE it. There is no middle ground ....its ok to think something is OK.

[@ddjsoyenby]

agreed.

[@kushagrasharma8974]

yes, life is not 1s and 0s its more complicated

[@iliketrains3495]

Usually the best you'll get is "It's okay but *has at least 3 criticisms* " Which I'm pretty guilty of

[@humberto022]

Its ok to like something. Its ok to dislike somenthing. Its not ok to hate on something without any reason Its not ok to feel obligated to love everything your favorite band puts out

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

That last one really does remain true. My favorite band is Imagine Dragons, for many years now, but when they put out Cutthroat, oh dear lord I just knew those were 3 minutes of my life I'm not getting back. Then they released Wrecked and that made up for it.

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

@Anson Hartzler Nah cutthroat is so bad that it sounds like someone actually cut his throat. It's not only jarring but it's completely undignified and horrendous too. The lyrics in the verses are actually kind of good though. But the pre-chorus/chorus/bridge are like if 6ix9ine tried to make a nine inch nails song and failed miserably. So yeah, there's that. However, it does make sense that it's an interesting mess at least and I can totally understand someone being drawn to it. Wrecked I actually love though because the vocals and lyrics are more controlled and therefore not flying off the handle.

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

@Anson Hartzler That's cool, glad you enjoy it

[@BurnedToe]

opinion: you're allowed to call yourself a fan of an artist even if you only like a certain era of their art!

[@Miley-vk1sw]

Not opinion, fact

[@iliketrains3495]

Yeah, I've been into RHCP since I was a kid but won't touch most of their 80's stuff

[@Miley-vk1sw]

@@iliketrains3495 I'm a fan of RHCP and I still haven't touched most of it yet

[@bradarnold7834]

@@iliketrains3495 That’s funny because I loved RHCP in the 80s and don’t give a crap about anything post 1992. We’re opposites!

[@emperorcupcake]

My favourite band is Weezer so I'm kind of a pro at criticizing my fave at this point 😂

[@deggowaffles2991]

Their entire discography is a roller coaster :D

[@robinchatterjee4353]

@@deggowaffles2991 nah what r u talking about weezer has a perfect discography 😂😂

[@qayyim3299]

Real weezer fans hate every thing that weezer have made

[@tripledoubleg9853]

@@qayyim3299 fuck yeah

[@megaascension2748]

I cAnT sToP pArTyInG!

[@AnonymousAnonposter]

Because having any critical sense nowadays is "toxic".

[@andrewbechtel6077]

^ This

[@artvjon]

"we should just appreciate that they did this" - lmao yeah, no.

[@AnonymousAnonposter]

don't ask questions just consume product

[@lotusmiragemusic]

Very few artists have a PERFECT discography. It's incredibly difficult to release songs that are consistently masterpieces and it's even more difficult to please everyone (I think versatility and artist trajectory/growth - in terms of sound - is well-needed)

[@skyleague9844]

@Call Me, BLEGH Me, If You Wanna Reach Me brand new does imo. I wouldnt call them my favorite band, but they have no mediocre or worse material

[@supermariofan53]

I don’t think any artist or anyone for that matter has a perfect track record. I think anyone’s favorite artist is going to have a few tracks that don’t do it for them

[@takemyhand1988]

Till solar power Lorde had a perfect catalogue, in my opinion.

[@samb.6147]

Fiona Apple is the only one that i can think of tbh

[@afganskiksiaze]

Kendrick Lamar is the first artist I think when I hear "perfect discography". Even Kanye (who is my favorite artist) has flops in his catalog.

[@judithk1719]

As a Ariana Grande fan our fandom is toxic and you can't say anything negative but i just can't force myself to like something that i find terrible and that goes to any artists

[@tariqthomas9090]

No seriously. If you even post a minor criticism of Sweetener or Positions, you’re bound to start a war.

[@judithk1719]

@@tariqthomas9090 OMG yes, i said something on Twitter a week ago about positions should've been a EP instead and got called a fake fan

[@takemyhand1988]

@@tariqthomas9090 do you know there are many fans who listened to positions everyday and finally "liked" it? They have commented if someone didn't like it, you should listen to it everyday to like it.

[@haashim9388]

@@judithk1719 Honestly I agree, positions had some great songs but some were really forgettable and bland. There are so many tracks that could be removed to make it more cohesive.

[@satandie3405]

YES this entire video i was picturing ariana twitter

[@hannaklint2472]

I’ve been thinking about this. I’ve even seen fans say that it’s honestly disrespecful to critisize or dislike something because ”the artist worked hard for it/was true to themselves” etc.

[@artvjon]

Yeah, that's a big time cop out excuse. I worked hard on building a bird house one time and it was shit, putting in time/effort doesn't make something good, and also doesn't mean we're obligated to love it. I do see that a lot

[@tylerwade3682]

kinda ruins the whole art is subjective part when someone just loves everything an artist puts out just because it has their name on it. Not as fun when you can't criticize that person in when someone is a toxic stan like that

[@RJIS]

I agree. Example: I like many Fall Out Boy albums, Folie a Deux is awesome ;), but that doesn’t mean that I have to like Mania

[@vampire_moneyyy6041]

@@RJIS Like with Twenty øne piløts we love all their albums doesn't mean we have love all songs off Scaled and icy

[@8nicopink868]

I've come from A LOT of fandoms, mostly of animated media, where people have never hesitated to criticize the media we love. So when I'm jamming to pop music, scrolling down in the comments, and see like over 30 comments saying the artist has never made a bad song in her/his life (because apparently Bad Blood by Taylor and the light is coming by Ariana never happened), I...do not get it. The idea that they're just pandering because they think that maybe the artist will see their comment, or that they're so involved in Twitter fandom that they don't know or dare to be critical, that's the only way I can understand it.

[@linzym.nunezc.1207]

Idk about “The light is coming” but “Bad blood” is pretty good tho, lol.

[@8nicopink868]

@@linzym.nunezc.1207 I can't stand that song personally. The melody in the chorus is obnoxious, and the lyrics are some of Taylor's most generic

[@linzym.nunezc.1207]

@@8nicopink868 I agree the lyrics are basic but the song is catchy. “Me”, on the other hand, is a bad song. “Bad blood” is just mediocre, imo. The video and Kendrick’s part saved the song for me.

[@8nicopink868]

@@linzym.nunezc.1207 Eh, I don't take into account catchiness or good videos as signs of quality, but that's just me. We seem to have opposite opinions, 'cause ME is just mediocre in my opinion 😝 I don't mind Kendrick in Bad Blood tho, it is one of his better pop song features.

[@johnpaulcross424]

Hype culture is just toxic in general, ruins expectations just for cheap engagement

[@a1t3rmusic]

this is it right here🤞🏾

[@madeleinep.828]

I think some of these fandom members should take an art class and they'll learn that critiques are vital in any form of art - music included.

[@ddjsoyenby]

yup some of the most beloved artists in history were heavily criticized.

[@andymccoy8370]

@@ddjsoyenby if you were an artist, writer, painter, in the past you were most likely criticized and hated during your life and only after your death the art got appreciated. dozens of examples even in my country's, finland, relatively short history.

[@henrysoprano7]

stan culture is so fucked up, like yeah I'm using a Taylor Swift picture on my icon but that doesn't mean I'm not going to think about her music and maybe not like it, I freaking hate almost everything about reputation for instance and I love the debut album and I get a lot of shit from the fandom for thinking that way...

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

Yeah that's totally fair. I personally really like the Reputation album even though it really doesn't play to her personal strengths vocally and lyrically like on her older albums. Then Folklore and Evermore came out and they absolutely blew my mind.

[@henrysoprano7]

@@jadenthemusicfreak Yeah, like I think reputation was too desperate to be trendy and shady, there are some jams such as Don't Blame Me, Getaway Car and Delicate (New Year's Day is my favorite) but I find the rest pretty mediocre in comparison to other tracks in her discography

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

@@henrysoprano7 Yeah that makes sense. King Of My Heart has to be my absolute favorite on there though, and for some weird reason End Game is already weirdly nostalgic.

[@mirroredheart7292]

@@henrysoprano7 could not agree more omg. & I get so much hate for disliking Reputation, when really it’s because I hold Taylor to a high standard & know what she’s most capable of.

[@takemyhand1988]

I agree. I commented on a discussion video that reputation wasn't really a big comeback. It only had like 1 #1 and her lyrics were almost childish (cough cough gorgeous). Then a person replied saying reputation was the biggest comeback ever in history and was bigger than the emancipation of mimi.

[@alicebagli]

First of all: THANK YOU. Second of all: in my experience, I found out that this thing is much more common with popstars, like you said: from Ariana Grande, who I don't really listen to, to Billie Eilish, who I'm a big fan of - and who, sadly, happens to have one of the most toxic fanbases I've ever had the displeasure to see; which, to be honest, has always kept me from getting involved with it. When it comes to alt-rock bands and not-massively-known pop artists that I follow, for example, I've never really seen those kind of behaviours _at those levels_ . Actually, some fanbases can be rather critical, if anything (Muse and Green Day's, for example). Basically, for what I've seen so far, it looks like the bigger the fanbase is, the most likely it is to become toxically preachy. I also think this has a lot to do, once again, with celebrity culture and the warped reality it generates in the most devoted fans. The rise of social media didn't help in the slightest: the fans now think they're closer to their beloved artist via social networks, but they still don't actually know them, they still don't intend on perceiving them as flawed, real humans and they're still putting them on a freakin' pedestal. _Maybe_ it wouldn't be a bad idea if music newspapers and random verified accounts stopped feeding this shit (I'm talking to you, MTV). I swear I have nothing else to say. For what it's worth, I'd really like you to make a video that explores further the magical realm of fandoms with their dynamics :)

[@zaccds]

This video is a 10/10. I agree with everything you said, and I know this video will go down as a KZbin classic. Even though I haven't watched it yet.

[@artvjon]

:p

[@Fahmed-rl6pr]

Criticising something in social media feels like a death sentence at this point.

[@manilovebagels]

ah yes as a kpop fan this is probably one of the biggest problems in the kpop community

[@a1t3rmusic]

fandom culture is definitely something i'd like to see discussed more in future and generally just how people seem to engage with art these days

[@ciarandouglas3917]

You’ve literally verbalised the same thoughts I’ve been yelling at the wall haha. Stan and extreme fandom culture is potentially the singular WORST thing about any form of modern day entertainment discussion. So, SO ugly and tiresome.

[@tracyl8939]

Those probably haven’t heard of Eminem’s Stan That song actually gives a valuable Message But these People just think Excessive Behavior IS NORMAL!

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

Anyone remember the days of the nitpicky critics? Never thought we’d swing so far in the other direction towards toxic positivity!

[@takemyhand1988]

I know right. Upto like 2012 it was like that. I remember 21 by Adele didn't recieve good recognition, Mariah carey getting ridiculed for using so much whistles and when she downsized it, they were saying she should use it in every instance and many other such examples.

[@123rockfan]

I don’t think they’re pretending. The people who think AJR and Maroon 5 (their current music) are the best bands ever probably don’t have the most discerning taste

[@artvjon]

LOL, well on that note you might be right...

[@Cthulu1985]

And I'm inclined to agree. Those people have their taste determined by mainstream radio/streaming and don't have much of a perdonality in terms of music criteria.

[@BoomRoasted3]

my brother loves ajr, i hate ajr and he thinks theyre the most TALENTED band to ever exist, im not too worried though hes 11 and he doesnt know good music

[@RJIS]

Replace AJR with Fall Out Boy, and you have my taste in music.

[@BoomRoasted3]

@@RJIS oh ok I hate fall out boy too lmao

[@8bitdiedie]

This is the whole “poptimism” thing in music journalism gone too far. Poptimism was this idea that just because something is popular, that doesn’t mean it’s bad. At first this was healthy for music journalism because it was a way to stamp out genre elitism (especially punk/indie elitism). But now it’s just became a convenient excuse for music publications to jerk off the most popular artists possible, because they know it gets their articles more clicks and revenue. So many reviews and praise I’ve read about artists nowadays boils down to “well they have a huge following so surely the music must be good right?” or just talking about how passionate their fans are, as if that’s somehow synonymous with artistic merit. So many music magazines and websites became glorified celebrity tabloids for this very reason.

[@8bitdiedie]

It’s also turned casual music discourse from one type of toxic to another type of toxic. It used to be: “You like *popular song*? That means you’re spineless and braindead because you only value popularity”, but now it’s: “You don’t like *popular song*? That means you’re spineless and braindead because you just wanna sound quirky/contrarian”

[@8bitdiedie]

@@nah....6151 That’s all well and true. But it’s not like there aren’t any pop fans guilty of being similarly elitist either. I know plenty of them who will literally refuse to enjoy a song unless they know it’s in the charts or features a popular artist. And many will label people weird if they display affection for more obscure genres (in the same way some people will criticize pop fans for liking pop songs). Two sides of the same coin.

[@AnneettaLife]

This is why I don’t bother to scroll down to the comment sections on official Artists channels anymore. Every single one of their fans act like they can do no wrong. It’s almost like the comment section is filled with bots who cater to the ego of artist. It’s been a while since I’ve seen a genuine-unbiased opinion on those channels.

[@martinherrera25]

exactly, i always find myself cringing over those comments that feel like bots repeating the same shitty compliments over and over again, and don't get me started on K-pop, it's the same shit, maybe even worse than that, i like a girl group and every time they post something i always find the same copy paste comments about, Popular Opinion: Everyone agrees that ........ is an angel or something like that, and is SO cringe because you scroll down and you see the same comment but with less likes

[@morganfoster3477]

Yeah I made that mistake with the new ADTR album. Somehow that thing has some defenders.

[@Johnny-ux7yi]

it's a problem that i've encountered during my time as a Swiftie. while discussing my honest opinion about reputation on Twitter with some swifties, i was labelled as ''tasteless'' because i didn't like that album. this HAS TO STOP! I'm sick to death with the cult mentality of fandoms.

[@ferencssalvoski3721]

It's not only that fandom is in every fandom but some of them are more toxic and "protective"

[@TheDiamondSlayer1]

Such an interesting topic because it also goes the other way with so many people thinking they have to hate something, going out of their way to convince themselves that they hate it, or attacking others for liking something. Interesting to talk about 😀

[@summercapps8239]

Honestly, stan culture is HUGE problem. It's toxic and its just become such unhealthy environment which social media doesn't help. People seem to forget that not everyone has to be the same or like the same things. Now its like EVERYONE must love this new album otherwise you're not a "fan". A lot these stans get aggressive towards other people's opinions towards their favorite. They say the same things: their music saved me so i have to protective them at all cost. Which is ridiculous. In reality, the music may help them but its not saving them. Their love for their favs has become a parasocial relationship. It becomes unhealthy for them and the artists. Music is not a solution or permanent solution at that, for mental health. Its become a cluth and in turned as become a tool to use to bully others who don't like what they love. I have often felt that i can't say my opinions on music without facing some sort of backlash. But it won't stop me from loving music.

[@juliekeast6175]

Given the abuse others dish out, I wonder if people lie about liking a particular artists new music in order to avoid the toxicity of the stan groups. I once made the mistake of tweeting ""Look What You Made Me Do" is fucking awful and I say that as a Taylor Swift fan, some Taylor Swift fan responded with "You can't be a true fan of Taylor's if you don't like "LWYMMD." End yourself" even though I have every single one of Taylor's albums! What I am saying is i think some people lie to protect themselves from the online stan backlash. I firmly blame stans for the inability to have a really good healthy conversation about popular music.

[@lotusmiragemusic]

I'd say I'm a pretty loyal Swiftie - yet, I can't help but dislike most of her debut, Reputation, and Lover (I'm sorry, but "ME!", "LWYMMD", "End Game", "I Forgot That You Existed", and a few others are insufferable). That being said, "Getaway Car" and "The Archer" are objectively excellent songs and deserve more recognition (should have won Grammys). Folklore and Red, however, are full-out, consistent MASTERPIECES and it really shows in the overall lyric-writing quality as well.

[@Stefan_Gerards]

this is exactly what pisses me off so much about fandoms - you tweet something negative and they all come at you with hurtful comments like "kys" without thinking about the consequences of someone who may be going through a really bad time mentally seeing a comment like that. exactly why Twitter is such a toxic environment on social media..

[@juliekeast6175]

@@Stefan_Gerards It's part of why I created my blog so I could state my feelings about particular songs without the worry of the toxic comments. I'm also a lot more careful with which artists I tweet about too these days

[@tylerbailey9329]

I've really come to despise how magazines in particular tend to suck up to bigger-name artists.

[@SomeSong2]

That's why RateYourMusic is such a godsend because they actually give a good representation of what to actually check out, a breath of fresh air from the big hits.

[@iliketrains3495]

@Call Me, BLEGH Me, If You Wanna Reach Me that site is an absolute Charli XCX sausagefest although I did like the fact that when I searched up the worst songs of 2021 the other day Tom Grennan came up, who’s this painfully dull indie pop kind of artist that radio stations here in the UK love for some reason. That I’ll give RYM props for

[@juliekeast6175]

@@iliketrains3495 Yeah it's not just UK radio that love that Tom Grennan hot mess, Australian radio does too unfortunately

[@joeoliver4266]

I think the "poptimism" thing caught like wildfire and got out of control. Big rags seem to want to ostracize anyone who doesn't recognize the "importance" or the "validity" of a top 40 artist as some kind of buzzkill. And the reasoning is circular: this is selling big, and it's speaking to people, so it must have some kind of value that makes it immune to criticism - especially criticism from rock and indie fans. It's a battle that might have made sense some time ago, but at this point the snobbery they think they're pushing back on has relegated itself to the darker and lonelier corners of social media. Nobody with a big platform calls top 40 garbage anymore. The blue checks need to let that shit go.

[@8bitdiedie]

@@joeoliver4266 Bingo! Poptimism is the new elitism. Criticizing punk/indie/rock elitism is good and all, but have people forgotten that pop fandoms are filled with pretentious snobs too? Many of them are literally unwilling to enjoy a song unless they know it’s on the charts and will look at someone weird for liking more obscure genres.

[@kellypritchard6516]

I know you've done a video on it on the past but would love to see an update on your experience and ranking toxic fandoms. The worst I've experienced are bad encounters are with The 1975 stans and arianators.

[@DeathMachineJoe]

Thanks for opening up this discussion. I've never understood why so many fandoms (specifically for more mainstream artists) always act like everything this artist does is fantastic. It feels like they're just lying to themselves, especially when I hear a song by an artist that I didn't think was amazing. Even some of my favorite bands still have songs or albums I could care less about or songs that I think are outright bad. Some of those bands are ones where I do genuinely love everything they've put out, but I still don't act like they are perfect all around.

[@benslade8134]

I had this problem back in day before social media took off. I was a big Oasis fan and most of peers including my best friend were Radiohead fans. Now I like Radiohead but some of thier work was so hard to get into! Kid A for example took me ten years to finally appreciate it! At the time most people were like "How the hell can you not like it Radiohead are Gods among men! Oasis just rock for people who like meat and potato and rip off the Beatles!" My point being fandoms and fakeness are part of human culture it's not just something new to the 21st century the Internet has just brought to the surface attitudes that were always there.

[@TrackXTrack]

BTW, your comments about being "ratioed" cracked me up. It happened to me on a recent rant video, which the Stans reveled in pointing out in the comments. It wasn't my explicit intent to drive such an extreme reaction, but it still got a TON of views and performed well in other ways, so... I consider it a win. I ended up disabling the video after I felt like it had done what I wanted it to do, not because I was bullied into it.

[@artvjon]

I'm with you on that! It usually ends up being more of a win for us than anything else. I do hope they fully roll out the feature where you can't see how many dislikes a video has, just the amount of likes. You can still hit the dislike button but it doesn't show how many, and avoids the "ratio" thing, one of my other accounts has had this enabled for a few months.

[@JaretVincent]

This is what I hate about reaction channels on KZbin. Fans of artists search up reactions to songs and 99% of the time the reactor will always say that the song is a banger. Like there is no way you think that every song you react to is good. Only react that way to farm views and keep up the like/dislike ratio.

[@markjames8664]

For a reactor it definitely is easier - and safer - to avoid criticism. I know one reactor that has received threats for making even slightly negative comments. Personally I will frequently like and subscribe to a reactor that listens to my favorite band even if they have mixed comments, because I think any coverage will help the band, and there are many fans who are on board with that idea. But there are always some toxic people out there that get nasty, and I don’t blame reactors for getting gun shy.

[@Ok_Loren]

I should have looked at the comment section because I just posted the same thoughts.

[@bouchrafakher]

Check out brad taste in music. That guy will trash on most of your favorite artists and you'll laugh along with him

[@markjames8664]

@@bouchrafakher he does NOT hold back, that’s for sure.

[@albertmares6914]

This video is so true. I also feel like people think if you don't love something, you hate it and that is so wierd, because you can like a song only a little bit or feel torn on it. Loving something isn't as ordinary as people think.

[@majiaugustine9510]

i think taylor swift stans on twitter are quite a different breed. there's not a single day without at least 1 fan expressing their hatred for ME! and You Need to Calm Down.

[@lotusmiragemusic]

I mean, those are objectively bad songs. Can't exactly defend those lol

[@amanisnoone3233]

look what you made me do also hurt my ears 😂

[@moonlightcaroline2423]

I agree and it also applies the other way around. Some people hate a certain artist and would never ever admit that they have good songs.

[@TheSkinnyZ]

I have thoughts on this: For me personally, I never wanna dive into fandom or standom so deeply, that I constantly find myself kissing ass, even if I don't like something. That being said, I always try to make sure that I'm being respectful and emphasize that something is *my opinion*. The other thing is that maybe the fandoms/standoms try to balance out the hate their faves get, since stans of other artists and trolls will definitely voice their dislike very loudly.

[@TheSkinnyZ]

Also, just for the sake of it, here's a few songs of some my personal faves that I cannot stand or just don't care for: -Ariana Grande: west side, make up, successful -Lady Gaga: Come to Mama, Just Another Day, Dope -Dua Lipa: Good In Bed, Not My Problem, Room for 2 -Marina: You, No More Suckers, Happy -Madison Beer: Reckless(!) -Banks: Sawzall, Bedroom Wall

[@nightski380]

Along with being influenced by toxic fans of a band, I think you can also be influenced by complete denial that your favorite artist could EVER put out a bad song. You subconsciously, but not really, start to like the song more and more because “Oh, this is a (insert artist here) song, I’m just not used to new songs, I guess” or some other bull$h!t excuse about liking the song when you really don’t. Your mind tricks you into liking the song just because you like the artist. It’s really specific because that’s what happened to me with some songs.

[@lisandroxiii5031]

It happened to me with new Fall Out Boy, when I 1st heard Young & Menance I hated it, so bad that I even found good songs like MSKWYDITD, which I disliked for similar reasons. I always had it on my playlist and wasn't really feeling it and then I said: "why am I still listening to it? It's not like I'm forced to " and took it out (then other stuff from that era too). Same happened the other way round with Linkin Park. 1st time listening to The Catalyst I hated it, but I think the fact that everyone couldn't stand their new sound helped pushing my hate. Then I gave it another chance and now I really like it, and lot of their new stuff, even from One More Light (not all though, I can recognize the trash part on that era)

[@abigailbrunsink3906]

Love this series! And this video hits on a topic that I completely agree with. One of my friends and I both love the same band but their last two track have been far from their best work and even though I really tried to like them I just wasn't sold and it was like my friend got personally offended?! Also I contribute to a music blog that mainly writes about stuff that we like, not centered on critical reviews (it was just how we decided to format it) but I wanted to write a mild critique of a band that I love and I was actually really worried about the fanbase coming after me. I went ahead with it and thankfully only got one negative bit of feedback, but it was honestly a bit scary to post the article! I hate the toxicity of fan culture today, and I hate fans who feel like any kind of critique on a band/artist/song is like a personal attack on them, and that you have to LOVE everything someone puts out.

[@charlesnunziata8693]

Excellent discussion, I think your analysis is spot on. I have been a passionate rock fan for 5 decades now, and never had a problem acknowledging or accepting that even artists I love the most had at least some mediocre, and in some cases, downright bad material. If you are truly interested in an artist for the music itself I think you can accept that is the reality and not feel conflicted about it. But for those people who become engulfed in these toxic fan bases, particularly for Top 40 megastars, I truly suspect that the music releases by their favorite artist are more of a conduit to feel connected, however tangently and superficially, to a celebrity leading a glamorous existence (and also feeling connected to a large communal group of fans who have a similar need to feel this way) than a piece of music itself to evaluate the artistic merits of. Makes sense to me in the context of people who appear unwilling or incapable to criticize anything the artist does. Thanks again for exploring this topic.

[@tantheta2184]

Yesss talk about the fandom culture. I've really debating how to feel about "young" swifties defending everything taylor has ever done even if she herself regretted and has apologized for it. I really can't believe I was in twitter fight against people defending Taylor's tweets toward nicki in 2015. And also stans don't even allow allow artists to be held accountable as latest as Taylor's tweet about he show ginny and georgia. I was truly HORRIFIED to see the racism and sexism spewed upon the young black actress of that show. Also justin bieber's DREADLOCKS . The way nobody has questioned him about that is just insane. Stan twitter doesn't allow people to be frustrated and question their faves.

[@favour3734]

I don't know that Taylor is a good example for this to be honest except if you're talking about the music criticism. Those things you mentioned are things I've also been critical of her for doing but the reason most swifties get so protective in that respect is Taylor is already widely hated and criticised especially on twitter and they'd rather not have that come from the fandom as well so I understand it. Do you mind if we become mutuals on twitter cos it's been nice surrounding myself with fans that are critical of her actions when warranted and I'd like more of those because before I got into that circle it was this boring fake positivity and ass kissing

[@tantheta2184]

@@favour3734 sure it's @tanya_swiftie_ 😊.

[@tantheta2184]

@@favour3734 yeah I don't think taylor was a good example for that topic but I just couldn't stop writing.

[@iliketrains3495]

I feel like you’ve done this video before, but can’t blame you given it’s becoming more and more of a problem 😑🙄

[@davidnissim589]

Another thing you should talk about is bands whose fanbases refuse to accept change. Linkin Park, Bring Me The Horizon, Asking Alexandria, and blink-182 are the biggest examples of this.

[@erbihc1781]

I feel like it's not a new phenomenon, I use to encounter it a lot back when radio was the only source of music for most people : a lot of my friends would only listen to one radio station and love anything they ear on air. I remember showing my friends Coldplay and muse around 2000, they were like meh, but a couple years later when it's on their radio, suddenly it's their shit, but only the specific title on air, other better titles from the albums they were not liking. I think they passively forces themselves to be fan of the radio, and that was not even conscious. Now that streaming is the main way to listen to music this phenomenon must have past on from radio station to artists themselves.

[@Underdrill]

I will never claim that any artist I listen to has a perfect discography where everything is an instant classic. There are a few albums I would personally consider perfect, but that's as far as I'll go.

[@theabacross1581]

This isn't just music too which is crazy it's everything like movies, shows, Video Games, Comics, literally everything

[@artvjon]

of course. I do think it's a LOT more prevalent with music though.

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

@@artvjon Agreed

[@JohnADuerk]

Multiple thoughts: (1) Is this happening more often or are you/we just more conscious of it? (2) Social media gives everyone an outlet to express thoughts that once remained inside their head or just among friends. (3) Like = promotion. People have many reasons to avoid being critical: disagreement often leads to interpersonal conflict, which many don't enjoy. (4) Many don't recognize their own view, whatever it happens to be or be about, as a personal bias rooted in their feelings (as opposed to empirical fact).

[@jeremywaygay]

wow....that is a good point. like all of it.

[@lasernikixcex]

I like fandoms but I hate standoms

[@TomPetty60]

I’m a hardcore Tom Petty fan. I have his whole entire catalog. The Heartbreakers, solo and Mudcrutch and I love all of them. Maybe I’m bias or very easy to please but I don’t think he has written a bad song at all. Even my least favorite songs I still enjoy listening too. But don’t join in conversations about Tom. I keep everything to myself and I always respect other fans opinion.

[@markjames8664]

I’d argue that Tom Petty is an outlier, one of the best songwriters ever. I don’t love all of his music equally but his weakest songs are still enjoyable.

[@TomPetty60]

Very true.

[@Johnny-ux7yi]

i've honestly come to despise so called ''reactors'' who suck up to ''bigger name artists''. Even Ajayii (one of the few ''KZbin reactors'' who i enjoy) was guilty of this to an extent in her reaction to Taylor Swift's reputation where she listed EVERY SINGLE TRACK from the album as her ''favorites''. It's a huge part as to why i quit the Stan Community (which i joined in late 2014 and left in 2020). What's the point in discussing music when all you get is ''wig snatched!!!", ''this is LIT!!!", ''ICONIC!!'' or any other nonsense?

[@TheWolfGuardians]

Like the people that pretend to like Pink Cellphone?

[@mattcimino5759]

Some years ago when I first discovered FOB and Panic! I was heading down the path to becoming a part of fandom culture. Then everything changed when Young and Menace attacked. Never again did I allow myself to have that mindset.

[@wherewego6960]

Young and Menace is actually really good though

[@polen7455]

Y&M was like a pot of hot boiling water poured all over you after waiting for a couple years after AB/AP. Mania only had a couple of good songs but overall wasn't their best. It does however, has a similar situation with Folie for their post-hiatus era with having fans sht on it and fans loving it. History just repeated itself.

[@mattcimino5759]

Yeah it's easily their worst song for me. Personally I just cant stand those chipmunk breakdowns (and they last WAY too long). What I think really separates Folie from Mania is that while both records see the band trying new things, the execution on Folie was superb, and all four members were firing on all cylinders. Mania has some excellent songs (Last of the Real Ones and Bishops Knife Trick for example) but the execution on some of those tracks just fell flat, making about half the record just forgettable or downright bad in my opinion.

[@polen7455]

@@mattcimino5759 I just laugh with cringe every time I hear Y&M. I remember when they dropped this and I was so excited because before Mania, they released a cover of I Wanna Be Like You for disney and it was fcking good and I thought that was the direction they were going for the record. But then they dropped Y&M... I think I was laughing and crying at the same time. Then couple months later they released Mania. All I could think of was they were running out of creative juices because Champions is just a rehash of Centuries, then they were going for that trendy mexican spanish influence with hold me tight or don't, then reggae for Sunshine Riptide! (although SR really got me the first time I heard it. The weirdness of this song has its charm). Only songs that I liked are sunshine riptide, heaven's gate, bishops knife trick and church. I love Last of the real ones but the live version is just... not good, well imo. They could not execute the song live that well, even Patrick sound like he's having a hard time singing the song. It just puts me off even though the song itself is fine. Overall, it's the overproduction that turns me off with Mania. Folie is damn great but my top personally would be Infinity on high or take this to your grave.

[@mattcimino5759]

I became a fan shortly after American Psycho released, so Young and Menace was the first new single they put out since becoming a massive fan and I was beyond hyped. I remember vibing with the first verse and build up but as soon as that first breakdown hit I was so let down. Save Rock and Roll is my favourite record from them, with Folie being an incredibly close second.

[@TrackXTrack]

Great topic. I can't think of a single act that I've ever had that kind of fandom commitment to, even when I was young. The notion that even my all time favorite artists "could do no wrong" is ridiculous. And when I've been critical of acts I love, I've been told I'm not a true fan. WTF? You know what makes a true fan? Recognizing your favorite artists are not perfect, forgiving them for their flaws, and being willing to give them another chance. To say "I didn't love that song/album, but I'm excited to hear what they do next" feels like a much more sincere fan reaction than "I LOVE EVERYTHING THEY DO!"

[@steveerickson411]

Does the flipside also happen, where people feel intimidated out of publicly praising "uncool" artists like Greta van Fleet?

[@el972]

YESS! I feel that sometimes, when you say that you like it you try to justify with something like “ yeah I know that they’re bad but it’s so fun! Lol”

[@paynebadabang4515]

I don’t feel like I have the right to enjoy Smells Like Teen Spirit because I’m a fan of Nirvana. No, it isn’t their best of their best, but it is still a good song

[@iliketrains3495]

It’s funny because if an artist’s biggest song has amassed a certain amount of general dislike, then the gatekeepers get on your case for including it as one of your favourites (see also Creep, Wonderwall etc), otherwise the gatekeepers get on your case for _not_ including it (like Bohemian Rhapsody)

[@jeremywaygay]

honestly ! like, that's their only song that i knew for a while, and even after i finally got around to listening to Nevermind and Bleach (still havent gotten to In Utero) I still think it's a fantastic song. There is a damn good reason why that song got famous, one of the types where it genuinely did deserve the hype. it was a straight banger and that is that.

[@paynebadabang4515]

I agree. And Nevermind is the best album of theirs too. I know In Utero is great, but I’m tired of everyone saying it is better than Nevermind by now

[@nightski380]

Keep up The Think Tank series (no pressure)! These discussions are always really interesting.

[@artvjon]

Thank you! People seem to really be enjoying them lately, part of the reason I decided to move it to the main channel!

[@cjthetallpoet]

My friend did that in a RHCP Reddit where he criticized a chili pepper record. He got 50 down votes for his criticism 😢. I love all eras of the chili peppers so I guess it’s different for me but when someone gives criticism about BSSM, SA, BTW and Cali. Some people just lose their shit 😞

[@Miley-vk1sw]

Look I used to have friends that were like that. They were into pop music and I wasn't. Everytime I said I didn't like one of their favorite singers and groups they cussed me out. Our friendship really only revolved around music and they sorta hated my music cause I was talking about rock and metal bands which they don't listen to cause I think they expected me to praise their artists that I don't even listen to. So whatever around a year into the friendship I said one of the songs they liked was overrated and they cussed me out so badly that they ended the friendship. Lol looking back at it I think I dodged a bullet there loll

[@reinhardtwilhelm5415]

I had this vibe hearing some of Lorde’s new songs. I really, really wanted them to be great… and yet they were just alright. Solid enough, and I could see where she was going thematically, but I wasn’t sold, and I don’t think I’ll ever be.

[@lapissed9620]

im a 100% melanie fan, like I even try to defend melanie from the false allegations before and is still a fan since 2015 but...tbh K-12 probably wouldn't be so loved if not for Melanie making a movie with it. With just the songs, it's average at best and not comparable to her first era at all (considering that she took four years to make the album, it should at least be equal to lorde's melodrama album that also took 4 years)

[@andrewbechtel6077]

Good topic man! People want to desperately fit themselves into the crowd to belong to something, self identity is a relic of the past, and in its place is a sort of mob mentality. "You have your own opinion?" "Is it the same as mine" "no?" "Than get out" I never pretend to be something I'm not, and that's why the close friends that I have, are my real friends. They know me and what I'm about; music or personal ideals.

[@toadfrommario943]

I’ve noticed with papa roach is they kinda leave toxic replies when people criticize their newer music. They’re definitely surrounded by too many yes men.

[@iliketrains3495]

Oh god yes I've noticed that. On one of their first electronic-inspired songs (I think it was Still Swingin') a fan was defending their change in sound and P Roach replied with "Thanks! We think so too!". I mean they even replied to my mum when she DMed them on Instagram about how "good" their latest album was

[@toadfrommario943]

@@iliketrains3495 it’s really weird. Like for fucks sake take some criticism for once instead of pretending everything you do is perfect. Their egos really need to be toned down a lot

[@ljubomirvucinic7356]

Opinion about Sam Fender? Second album coming soon...

[@Sssighh]

The other side of this issue is the automatic hate/dislike as well. People decide in advance they don't like an artist and automatically criticize their art without even listening to it. In some ways this sort of forced optimism seems like a reaction to it.

[@fanson83]

I’m currently having that problem actually. My favorite band is Hanson. I have either genuinely liked everything they have put out or it has grown on me...until this year. Most of the songs from their new project I just don’t like and I don’t think I will. I can’t say that within the bandom as parts of the group (unfortunately the loudest parts) are ride or die and can be somewhat abrasive. It definitely shouldn’t be that way. Critique is healthy. It allows for growth and change, both within you and in the art and artist you love. Thanks for talking about this issue, Jon! It is a reminder we could all use. If you’d like to talk more about fandom and fandom culture, I’d love to listen!

[@SomeSong2]

I see this a lot with a lot of the newer pop and rap live streams where the chat is moving so fast with fire emojis and hearts and anyone criticizing the song in the most meager way gets banned or mentioned on Twitter as a hater.

[@bdthecat3517]

Thank you I lilteraly made a video discussing this topic because I'm so sick of toxic stans bullying people for not liking a project. Plus I'm sick of people consistantly saying they love everything from their fav even if it lacks quality. It's such an annoying subject

[@RanterInShades]

It really shouldn't be sacrilegious to love a band's work but still have a few bones to pick with an album or two. The way I go about it, there's a VAST number of "full discography bands" that I'm into where I can say in good faith that I, at the very least, like all their albums. It doesn't necessarily mean that their whole discography is flawless and there isn't an album I would call my least favorite from them. For example, The Beatles are one of many bands where I have all their full albums in my iTunes, so it's safe to say they're a band I genuinely enjoy. But that isn't an indication that there isn't an album I would rank at the bottom (in this case it's Magical Mystery Tour) or that there aren't any flaws I can point out on any of their other albums (i.e. Revolution 9).

[@robbiemoore5608]

This is why I can't take KZbin reactors serious at all. Alex Hefner is unbearable to me because he "loves" every single damn song he listens to. It's channels like Become the Night, where he's brutally honest about his thoughts, that I appreciate them. It's not someone who feels pressured to give it a 10/10 because of the fandom

[@Ok_Loren]

I’m going to look up the channel you mentioned, so thank you! I like to listen to honest reactions even when I don’t agree.

[@iliketrains3495]

Yeah I have a couple of criticisms of BTK but his channel overall is great

[@iliketrains3495]

Also BTK is a good choice given that one video where he roasted Alex to shreds

[@for_kimseungmin0317]

Great video! I totally agree with everything. Do you think you'll ever do any more vids about toxic fandoms in the future? I would love to hear more of that 😝 but no pressure, I just find it interesting lol. Keep up the great work, I'm a huge fan.

[@harizonflamingice3167]

My general philosophy I've tried to follow when it comes to music, video games, films, and generally life itself is just to be neutral to things and let whatever is bound to happen just happen. That and remember that your opinions are your own as an individual and nobody has any right to them but yourself.

[@kasunkavishka2976]

This is so true... i am a swiftie and I have seen swifties on twitter attack others for saying reputation is a bad albums (which is true)

[@lotusmiragemusic]

It is comparatively worse than most of her other albums (which are, for the most part, lyrically strong). "Getaway Car" is definitely a commendable standout though!

[@josephkrebaum7502]

@@lotusmiragemusic For God's sake, music taste is not objective, so please stop saying that!

[@flamedash2837]

What he said about music, I agree man. Many songs grew on me...but I also never forced myself to like it, it's like when many people are genuinely liking smth, you start looking at it positively too.

[@CerdurTV]

one way to look at this behavior is through the way peple now socialize via curating a 'good' profile that other people will validate, it's fundamentally different socialization from a group of friends enjoying music together

[@skinnymac2411]

Post Malone’s new song Motley Crew to me is not good and I read so many comments on release that it’s not good but there were loads of comments from verified artists saying it’s fire 🔥🖤, it’s so annoying

[@artvjon]

Exactly. That song is generic trash compared to what Posty can do, no idea why people are pretending it's amazing or original at all

[@ronin2841]

4:32 really sounded like he was talking about the Swifties 😂

[@takemyhand1988]

I thought of arianators (i am one). There were many who listened to positions everyday to like it. They said to like it you should listen to it everyday.

[@ninjamage5215]

This is a great video. For an example, OneRepublic is one of my favorite pop bands. I’ve genuinely loved some of the singles from their upcoming album, but others have just been… not good. It’s totally ok to love an artist and dislike some of their work.

[@rjzaracla9374]

swifties and bts army in a nutshell 😂😂😂

[@afganskiksiaze]

Seriously though. The only artist whose discography I think is perfect is Kendrick Lamar. His albums are all glorious and his 10 best songs are examples of music at it's finest.

[@lotusmiragemusic]

Phoebe Bridgers

[@takemyhand1988]

I am a Ariana fan. I saw many people just dragging other's for not liking Ariana. If you have a Mariah Carey related pic or name and said she need to improve something like her voice technique, they will drag you to the hounds of hell.

[@AikiraBeats]

I feel this exact same way about Billie new album it felt like something was missing from the project as a whole

[@markjames8664]

There’s also sort of a Hunger Games mentality among some fans where they see similar bands as a threat, and feel they have to jump into comments and insult them because their own band is so “obviously” better. Fortunately some people in a fan community I’m in have spoken out against that, and trashing of other bands has become a lot less accepted there.

[@killingthemood2000]

Music criticism shifted for the worse when stan culture took over social media. You'll never be able to get a point across surrounded by people whose entire personality is liking an artist. One wrong move and its senseless backlash

[@jeremywaygay]

i feel like its a little difficult to instantly discern who genuinely is easily pleased/likes that kinda stuff and who is pretending to. i'd say the latter is definitely a problem, but with that knowledge we also should make sure not to jump to conclusions about any given stranger that you don't know much about who like most of an artist's material. i personally have some bands where i like the majority of what ive heard from their discography (ie mcr, idkhbtfm, lemon demon, the brobecks, etc) so i usually try not to jump to those conclusions just yet unless i flat out see said person saying that they have to like something or that other people are supposed to. so when i see a new song or album come up and a bunch of ppl are hyping it up, there isn't fully telling how many of those ppl genuinely enjoy their music. hell, i even have a friend who truly genuinely likes ALL of fall out boy's music including songs like young and menace, and i know that they aren't just trying to like it to support the band. so it really is kind of hard to tell so its best to tread carefully in a topic like this and be careful who we pin as what kind of person.

[@bulkemail1974]

This is so true. Some attitutes I constantly see is the shame factor people don't want to be in the minority or 'you have no idea what your own tastes are'. Um. But a common reply is why comment negatively don't watch it don't listen to them then. We don't want to hear your negatively we want positive comments only your opinion is not welcome here. etc etc

[@brianlefko4404]

I’ve never really been engaged with music fandoms or anything, but as a Fall Out Boy fan I completely get this. They became my favourite band during high school, they’re kind of the reason I got into rock. I wasn’t too keen on AB/AP and MANIA though, and I noticed that any criticism or disappointment voiced by fans was immediately lumped in as "hate" by the internet. Like it was taboo to have preferences that didn’t line up with what was being released. Also Jon, I’d never heard of being "ratioed" before this and I will never forgive you for introducing me to the term.

[@JackHumphrey326]

I work in music journalism, and the saps at most of these sites are hardly more than extensions of the talent managers they service. I’m so glad to have outlets to speak honestly about shit music as well

[@isaacalexander9461]

When I first listened to Greatest Hits by Waterparks, I was genuinely just. Lost. I saw everyone praising it on Twitter and was so confused because it was VERY different once you get passed Paranoid. I DID end up enjoying the album after several listens, and I do appreciate every song on the album in different ways NOW. But, it doesn’t mean my initial reaction of being shocked was wrong. And I’m still willing to admit that, of their 4 albums? It’s the worst one. But that’s not saying much, because I truly love their music and think all of their albums have been really good. But, yeah. That fandom (lol) is really toxic when they’re defending Awsten. Even he knows it. I’ve come to learn that I’ve blindly “loved” several songs and albums just because I didn’t want to, I guess, let down the band? I wanted to love it, even though I didn’t. Like, the neck deep album. Or sirens last record. They’re both subpar but I blindly told myself they were great or good. Then I listen back and NO THEY WEREN’T lmao.

[@robinchatterjee4353]

This is especially true about coldplay, Keith urban, eminem, Ed Sheeran and pink fans. I love their earlier work but their new work is simply not as good u don’t need to deny it ☹️

[@takemyhand1988]

I didn't know p!nk and keith had fans like that. About coldplay, I saw an article criticizing their live performances becoming the same style over and over again. There were comments dragging him because he liked lady gaga more.

[@robinchatterjee4353]

@@takemyhand1988 yeh that’s fair enough but was more talking about the new songs themselves. All i see under videos of them are comments absolutely “stanning” these artists but the new material is a step down from older works for sure and I was surprised not seeing any comments addressing how the music isn’t really that good and nobody agreed with me although I’m sure there is no one just comments it

[@iliketrains3495]

@@takemyhand1988 I'm really surprised at that point regarding Coldplay. I felt like the one thing they undeniably do better nowadays is their live shows

[@iliketrains3495]

Also OP, you're right regarding Ed Sheeran and Coldplay. That being said I caught the comments section on the first day Bad Habits was posted and I actually saw a few criticising the sound of Ed's voice, but now it's like the biggest song in the world I assume it's just full of stan lingo. As for Coldplay, I definitely saw a few on Coloratura saying things among the lines of "Finally a return to form after their last few mediocre pop albums", which is actually better even if I personally disagree with it.

[@takemyhand1988]

@@iliketrains3495 the article said coldplay do great shows. But it became the same asthetics over and over.

[@c.olin5]

not sure if you talk about this in the video, but i noticed this a lot with waterparks. all the stans were saying that greatest hits was the best album when anyone with ears can see that its a good deal worse than the rest

[@artvjon]

Oh I saw some REACHES with that one

[@Stefan_Gerards]

it’s the same with Fall Out Boy’s Mania though. yeah sure, there’s still a handful of genuinely good tracks on there, but every 100% FOB stan will still defend it and say ‘oh but this has been their best record in years!!’ even though as a whole it’s just a total hit or miss.. makes me miss the 2006-2009 days (when i became a fan) where they still released well-crafted albums that would go on to become classics

[@mixeljackstudios6379]

Even Awsten himself just called the album a masterpiece on Instagram. Quite a reach.

[@Stefan_Gerards]

@@mixeljackstudios6379 'masterpiece'... i'd call Double Dare the closest to a masterpiece. hate when musicians use words like 'masterpiece' to promote their new music, surely they can find something else to use to describe new music

[@c.olin5]

@@mixeljackstudios6379 yeah he certainly knows how to get the stans talking lol

[@silverlink8805]

Wow, I totally agree with everything you said in this video! I also agree with everything you've ever said!

[@artvjon]

Thanks, loyal minion.

[@josephkrebaum7502]

Oh, the ironing is delicious! :)

[@esmaeelkassem1983]

This is John's version of the viral meme " that's mY OPINIOOON!"

[@robinchatterjee4353]

Just realised I’m not sure if Adele has a bad song…..

[@lotusmiragemusic]

I think her music is quite subjective (it may be too mature and same-sounding for some people). I'm personally not a fan of any of her songs, but it's undeniable that her lyrics are consistently heartwarming and great from an objective, songwriting point-of-view. Personally, I think Phoebe Bridgers has ZERO bad songs

[@limeeyed]

There's noone like you Jon! Great video

[@Hyperguy2000]

If it's not loads of comments saying "This is 🔥🔥🔥" then it's just loads of people saying "Come to Brazil 🇧🇷" no matter what the subject matter is. Great video btw, hate blind love comments so much.

[@reviewskingdom8779]

You should definitely do toxic fandoms, I’d love to hear your take :)

[@owl509]

One of the most annoying mindsets one could have

[@robinchatterjee4353]

Does any artist have a perfect discography? I haven’t listened to every Beatles album but do they have all perfect albums or not even them?

[@silverlink8805]

Imo Spoon and the White Stripes, but art is subjective

[@haashim9388]

It's really up to the listener. Their earlier albums (Before Rubber Soul) are kind of sub par imo, but they aren't bad. They just feel very outdated...

[@doctorrobert1339]

Many people would tell you they have a perfect discography, but a lot of Beatles fans (mainly older people because they grew up with them) tend to dismiss any criticism of them. As a young massive Beatle fan, they have a 99% perfect discography but in their early work there are a few stinkers that I just can't look past. Even to some of their later songs I feel a bit indifferent towards to, but I wouldn't say they're bad.

[@haashim9388]

@@doctorrobert1339 Yeah, there are some real stinkers on the White album. Not to say any names but...WILD HONEY PIE

[@doctorrobert1339]

@@haashim9388 HONEY PÆEEEEEEE