Why Do People Use Small 60% Keyboards?

[@GibusGang]

Imagine using a single key keyboard and the way you type is by morse code

[@Chokkan]

Touch typing would be easy at least. :)

[@Pumpkin-Link]

that's what people like stephen hawking do, it's called a clicker, it's not morse code though

[@onevidfull]

@@Pumpkin-Link it is not a bad method I mean it all about practice

[@bruhmomenthdr7575]

Denis Stephen Hawking used a functioning cheek muscle which was interpreted to text, then that text was interpreted into speech.

[@Wolficefang]

I've been thinking of building one, putting a microphone in it, and tying it to a macro that activates voice dictation software.

[@skryzskruzzle]

I use a 60%, and I dont understand why people use 40%s

[@Chokkan]

Haha yeah, I don't own one, so I can't say if they are usable for me, but I will probably get one this year; and a 30%. I must know!

[@ProjectExMachina]

With 40% you loose number keys compared to 60%. Add another layer with left side as special characters and right side as numpad and you have all those keys and you will type them faster, in more comfort and your keyboard will be smaller and cheaper. I use Let's Split which have 48 keys and i think i could loose at least 4 keys without much hustle. With heavy firmware customization i guess that i could shave off at least 10 keys but that is work in progress.

[@Goob3443]

@mathIsART I use 20% and I don't understand why some people don't use a keyboard

[@Chokkan]

We'll all be using 10% by 2058.

[@Goob3443]

Chokkan in 2083 we’ll be using 1 key that adapts to the letter your thinking

[@MuhammadbinYusrat]

My reason for buying a 60% keyboard was to force myself to get used to VIM keys as a developer instead of subconsciously jumping to arrow keys and other such keys.

[@Dbadaing]

I'm following a similar reasoning akhi

[@sheldon987123]

Just curious. What’s the advantage of using vim keys? Does it overall improve the productivity? Or is it more for satisfaction? Asking because I always use a full IDE if one is available for the language. And I rely on arrow keys + other hot keys to shift things around, navigate etc.

[@rousseau327]

Personally, a keyboard is all about what you want out of it, whether that's full-sized, TKL, 60% or 40%. What I can't stand is people thinking their way is the best way for everybody.

[@Chokkan]

Exactly. Same with choice of switch.

[@skaramicke]

But at the same time, if you're experienced and don't push people towards at least trying what you have found to be best (admittedly; for you), you're risking robbing people from the ability to put their own experience in perspective with what's possible.

[@totheknee]

You speak the truth; everybody is entitled to their crappy version. 😉 I would never press my subjective best on them! That said: it's a problem when people's opinions cause the capitalist market to become overrun with _their_ personal favorite so that the rest of us don't have subjectively better options. It would be better if manufacturing were more democratized so that we wouldn't have to deal with the latest 60% fad.

[@rousseau327]

@@Sm00thieK But full size keyboards are more intuitive and traditionally easier to accept and use. So your argument is, only people who lack the ability to think (I saw your edit) know how to use keyboards that are harder to use? Great logic buddy.

[@rousseau327]

@@Sm00thieK Yeah, I am saying it's harder to use, especially if you're used to traditional sizes. That is in contention to your argument that only people "who lack the ability to think" use them. Contradictory, yeah? "Leading keyboard manufacturers" make full size and TKLs because they are easier to use. Majority of the population don't give a shit about learning how to use a 60% or smaller, they wouldn't sell. But leading customer keyboard manufacturers have been making 60% since the beginning. People love them, and that's why they continue to make them. People even are quicker with typing, coding, gaming, with 60% given the close proximity of EVERYTHING on the board. You seem very uneducated, biased, and ignorant. Do yourself a favor. Research, test out some boards, and come to your own conclusion before calling anyone a retard. Instead of basing your opinions off of your own pre-conceived biases.

[@theodoro89]

You can also clean your 60% keyboard much quicker than a full size one.

[@Chokkan]

Yeah, that is an important one! I often see pictures of filthy full sized boards, but not many 60's.

[@YeahNaw]

You guys clean your keyboard? Pfff

[@alexeiz]

I programmed my 60% to have two Fn keys, one on each side of the keyboard. It's very convenient to map Fn+A/E to Home/End, just like Ctrl+A/E in Emacs. This makes 60% more convenient than a full size or TKL keyboard.

[@Chokkan]

This is exactly what makes them so great. I'll have to try that myself.

[@user-ko2me2gw5s]

i'm thinking about getting 60% buy the thing that fn key in only on the right side so you can't press fn+0 with one hand is pissing me off. Where have you placed your fn key on the right side?

[@RudolphsRedRose]

Using caps lock as a fn key seems to be common

[@darcfonce3140]

The reason i use a 60% bc it’s more aesthetically pleasing to my eyes. I hate looking at big bulky keyboards. 60 to 65% keyboards is literally the perfect size in my opinion.

[@Chokkan]

That's definitely a part of the appeal.

[@anasevi9456]

I like the way they look too, but then again I do actual work on my keyboard where i very much want to get on with it. So a F-row+numpad is necessary and volume keys because why not, nice to have a mute you can just tap with no fuss. At home if i can get away without work then I use my 60%.

[@cuxm]

me too i just dont know if I will get used t o it

[@Tyranidex]

You forgot the number 1 reason. That's the cheapest price for a PCB ^^

[@Chokkan]

It's great that we can get these for such great prices.

[@Tyranidex]

I wish there was more option for ISO AZERTY layout though :(

[@Pumpkin-Link]

also less money spent on switches

[@totheknee]

Sometimes 60% stuff costs more than the larger alternatives. Because capitalism.

[@SuperAcaoGeek]

Also they're more accessible because they're not so expansive. Here in my country (Brazil) a 60% usually is a great choice for a first mech key. Got a Anne Pro as my first mech with no regrets about it.

[@Chokkan]

+SuperAçãoGeek Yeah, this another important reason.

[@CyborgTeam]

thanks for the vid. i was unaware you could still access all keys. i was really scratching my head on why people dont want numpad. i will try a 60% now. thanks

[@haziqridzwan5199]

Ur mind was like me before i tried 60%, now i've tried it i think i need my old full size membrane keyboard back XD . Especially bc I want to excess the F- key easily, aroow key, num key, in ez word, I use full size keyboard all of it XD. Demm i miss my full size but i dunt want to bc that 60% is my only mechanical keyboard. I regretted buying that 60% since they are way cheaper than that but have full size. And I've spent all my budget on that. :U i hate this. I hope I get used to it soon enought with my 60%

[@funwithoutstress]

I think the easiest size coming from a full-sized would be 75% because there is no compromise or a 65% if you did not need the Fn keys.

[@Hophbrinkle]

Also we should factor in that at this point in time 60% are the most common keyboards, so they’re usually the least expensive and the easiest to customize with things like plate, case, key caps, etc. as there are simply more options.

[@_Davepocalypse]

Most common? Are you sure? How do you know that?

[@chino852456]

Its the first time ive seen someone present a product like you did, i mean with "slides"? I felt i was watching a class or something, very profesionally... really like it... u won one sub! (y)

[@Version-ru1mj]

Which you missed to explain further and I would like to add many years later... (Your video came up on the top of the search ) - Is that 60% keyboards do have better quality over full size keyboards. Those who are in doubt, look at Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2, Vortexgear Pok3r etc... Standard high quality pre-built. If you customise your keyboard, it will be even better than these. BUT, it will be much more expensive! Those who are starting out... The rabbit hole goes so deep, you can't even imagine at first. (I'm on holiday, working as a programmer, for straight 3 days, I'm researching and researching and researching...)Now, after 3 days full(seriously, full!), I picked my first beginner board. It's so complex that you must know everything to make the right choice and pick. Especially if you want to build customs and try new switches all the time, to know, what you need.

[@Magnus-99]

The reason I just cant live without a fullsize is because I study and often have to crunch a fuckload of numbers where the numpad is simply faster to use. That and I love Eve online

[@skylimitua]

I mapped them onto a second layer. Whenever I hold down Fn, the QWE ASD ZXC Alt behave as 123 456 789 0 respectively. Now not only can I touch-type numbers fast with my left hand, my right hand that holds down the Fn is right there next to both IJKL aka arrow keys and the Backspace, there are literally no situations when I would have to move either of my hands away from where I want it.

[@nathanlamaire]

The last reason, the price. Assembling 60% keyboard is very cheap compared to assembling full-size or even TKL. You can get hot-swap-able PCB with relatively low price, and buy only 60 - 64 keys and keycaps. It's very desirable for someone who wants keyboard with expensive switches but don't want to spend too much of money. Trust me, many of first hand peeps don't really like this form factor but just happened to buy it (but later they loved it).

[@Cobalt985]

I have been using a 60% for around a full year now. I honestly don’t even think about it. When I saw the title I was even a little confused cause I was sort of thinking “what do you mean? It’s just a keyboard”

[@blackswordsmanguts]

Full-sized keyboards 4 life!

[@qvindicator]

I don't get how someone could live without arrow keys. I use the arrow keys at least once every time I use my keyboard. That's like removing the command key. You could live without it, but it makes doing stuff a pain in the ass.

[@ciri151]

I can't remember the last time I used the arrow keys

[@timlarkin4471]

One thing that should be mentioned is that the keys on a 60% keyboard are 100% sized. (Am I right? Because I thought the whole keyboard was scaled down?)

[@stylesheetra9411]

Yes is right

[@groszak1]

The amount of keys is scaled down

[@rickit232]

The reason I have a full size keyboard is because you can play more games other than games like fortnite that don't require a lot of keys, so 60% user's have a disadvantage while playing games such as ArmA 3 tarkov and basically every other pc game

[@IronFire116]

Wow, I gotta say, these reasons convinced me that these keyboards are completely impractical.

[@Chokkan]

Doh!

[@northdakotabeast1547]

Man I've gotten so used to not having an F-row, now that I'm using my friends B.mini I fuck up a lot lmao. Especially since I had my Esc on tilda, and now I have to reach a little bit for Esc.

[@Chokkan]

Haha, yeah I guess once you're used to it, it can be hard to go the other way.

[@northdakotabeast1547]

@@Chokkan Yeah I really miss my Leopold FC660C, but since I'm giving this B.mini back it's not too big of a deal. Most definitely going to be building a SatanGH60 with Tealios or Zealios, after I build a new pc that is.

[@badcalculon]

Scroll lock on the default layer gag gave me a chuckle. Thank you good sir

[@LegoNerfMarksman]

Quality video as always and really funny at that! Thanks for the chuckle, and all your content, Chokkan!

[@Chokkan]

Cheers, I really appreciate the support.

[@o.oswift181]

not going to lie I just got a 60% keyboard and I miss full keyboards 1. They are not meant for people with big hands (me) 2. Really only for gaming (not good for typing or schoolwork) 3. Really overhyped (ngl) 4. Its like learning how to type all over again

[@RATsnak3]

Its the lack of excessive branding for me. All you have to do is change the key caps and nobody will be able to tell the difference between an expensive custom keyboard and a mid-range pre-built. It's also super convenient and comfortable to type on a keyboard that isn't way bigger than it has to be.

[@Vnifit]

I dunno man, my roommate has a 60% and the dude really struggles when he needs anything that isn't standard on a 60% (ie a function or arrow key). I can certainly understand TKL, I've pushed myself to switch to one recently (with a numpad on the side, can't live without it sometimes lol), but everytime I use a 60% keyboard it feels so cumbersome. Say you want to quickly move a few spaces to the left, you need to swap layers and then move the arrow, and then switch back to the main layer. That's 4 button presses more than with a TKL. Oftentimes it can push someone to just use their mouse more, or a variety of bad habits due to the akwardness of having to switch around layers to get a button. Just because you can technically do it, doesn't mean its a good solution. I can totally understand the aesthetics of a 60%, but really a 75% is much more practical and looks great. I think people really underestimate how quick you can get with a keyboard when you have dedicated arrow keys and the home/end/delete keys.

[@Cobalt985]

You’re seriously over complicating this lmao. You don’t think of the keystrokes when you do them, it feels the same. It’s often faster than moving your hand across the entire board and then repositioning.

[@Butzemann123]

I use the caps lock key as a fn key. Arrow are activated through wasd while fn being pressed. Its a lot faster than dedicated arrow keys for typing sessions, since i dont need to leave the homerow. For touch typers this is ideal.

[@maynardewm]

With all of the 65% options now, does 60% really make that much sense anymore? It’s basically the same size to the point that it really makes no difference, and it has the arrow keys + page up/down or whatever else you may want to map to it. And you can still have a Fn key if you want for the layers and F row. I feel like the only reason someone would want to use 60% nowadays is the aesthetics.

[@casekocsk]

I want the compactness of 60% keyboard (I have small deskspace) but I also need those directional buttons, pgup/pgdown, and F1 to F4 buttons... Unfortunately, 65% and 75% keyboards are hard to find over here, and much more expensive compared to 60% and TKL.

[@LEK]

The Rk61 is 60% and has all keys on it.

[@Roy-ck9mb]

My friend got a 60% keyboard, and since I mocked him all day about it, he sent me this video later. As someone who uses a full keyboard I still can't understand why would you give off some of the keys? I find the numpad very useful for typing a series of numbers ordinarily, and the arrows help me with writing down essays, as well as playing certain video games. I could go in more details about what I do with the rest of the 40%, but that's not my point. The point is that I find these keys very useful, and I see absolutely no reason to take them down. Not this video specifically, but saying your hands are small and can't reach the keys, is massive bullshit and I never take it seriously.

[@Butzemann123]

Its not about "not reachable", its about not reachable while still having some finger on the home row. For touch typers like me its a lot easier to use the arrow keys in wasd or ijkl. I use the capslock as a fn key since i never use capslock. Which means im faster with arrow navigation without leaving the homerow. Numpad: fair point, since on a 60 percent you need both hands for fast number typing. Its more comfortable with a numpad when you have huge amounts of numbers to type . But thats why i have a seperate wireless numpad. I dont need the numpad very often, and i love tha additional space for my mouse.

[@Roy-ck9mb]

@@Butzemann123 thank you for sharing your opinion

[@guuerrrrrl]

I use 60% because good looking TKL or fullsize boards are almost impossible to find when you need QWERTZ layout.

[@TheBadMadMan786]

I guess I'm a sick freak.... I use Scroll Lock to act as a toggle switch for some custom AutoHotKey functions. The Scroll Lock LED on my Full sized keyboard is very handy to see the state of my toggle.

[@erickprince8873]

My all-time favorite keyboard has been the k95 with blue switches. It is probably good that there aren't any custom boards similar to that or else I might be tempted to go down that dark rabbit hole. I can see the argument for the smaller board if you have a small desk space or carry the keyboard with you but have to hard disagree on the aesthetics. They look like fisher-price toys. Voluntarily giving up the number pad seems crazy, I don't even like the compact ones that squish the arrow keys together with the num-pad and main board...

[@The_oli4]

And here I am with still not enough shortcuts space on a full size keyboard so I got a second 60% fully customized for shortcuts only. yes I have almost every key with a ctr or alt or ctr alt shift combination. but more than 4 keys pressed for a combination is just annoying.

[@gsgrzegorz98]

If your desk is big enough for a keyboard 26cm wide but not 30 cm wide, you make wrong life choices.

[@alpzepta]

I don’t know why most keyboard builder use 60%. I think they just lazy to solder in 40% more switches to make it full size. In usage situation yes I owned KBparadise V60 they are more pain in the arse to use because I sometimes use arrow key to scroll down website and to use fn key for everything is another pain. I bought it for macro key but because I broke my Matias keyboard I have to suffer from using 60% keyboard for now

[@Fantistisch]

Thanks that you kept the video short.

[@Zeioth]

I had a 65% keyboard once and I fucking missed the home/end buttons. TKL it's a bit bigger, but it's worth it for programmers.

[@kage8678]

i know im a couple of year late but the reason i dont use a 60% keyboard is that i havent fond a good one with mx speed silver switches and i dont want to build one myself and i have quite the big desk its like i think its around 200 cm by 100cm so thats about 80 inch by 40 inch so no need for smaller keyboard because of space

[@tormenmashi_]

my cousin get confused with my 60% keyboard because they think its very small and not good to type on, but i have a small desk and i do mainly typing and 60% is more than enough for me

[@speedyking288]

I like 100% looks and for video game wise the reason i say video game is because i play a game called osu mania and i like my hands far away from each other so i have to use keypads for some of the keys for the game

[@lolnjeoglondajmejejplejlis3365]

I don't know why would someone choose a normal sized keyboard because the all buttons on this "numpad" are already on the keyboard And I don't understand 60% keyboards , they leak many keys, and in programming taking two more fingers to use Shift and Fn is really bad for this TKL keyboards are the only keyboards that should exist And if i had to choose whats more useless "Normal sized" or "60%" i would choose "Normal sized" as the most useless design

[@hendrilibrata3353]

I really love 60%, but maybe 65% is the wisest choice out there. but the price gap between 60 and 65% is quite dillematic imo.

[@bernier689]

its mainly because custom keyboards are expensive

[@toamaori]

your trek themed caps are sweet... but I could not find the photon torpedo key :)

[@Chokkan]

Ah, well I have to keep that one hidden, right. :)

[@cinnabarsonar2072]

60% keyboards was something that confused me as well. Why would anyone buy these? Then it hit me, most of the keys on the Fn layer are not used often, and having to push one more key (Fn) isn't really a big deal for most. Furthermore, I use the numpad a lot, I could have a 60%, and a numpad next to it while having roughly the same footprint as a tenkeyless. I liked this idea so much that I purchased a 60% today (POK3R).

[@Chokkan]

When it clicks, it clicks :)

[@cinnabarsonar2072]

I just thought that I would give an update for anyone that might read these comments. I have had a 60% keyboard for about a month now. (Pok3r) I have to say, it was a lot easier adjusting then I initially thought. Although the newer line of Pok3rs have the Fn layer commands printed on the side of the keycaps which definitely helped. What took the most time getting used to was the arrow keys which I didn't realize how much I used them. After getting a Ducky pocket, I ended up using the arrow keys on that instead. I would say if anyone is thinking about getting a 60% just go for it. The space savings alone makes 60% keyboards a compelling option. Not to mention the potential ergonomic benefits. As someone that does both 3D modeling and some light programming, the change has been very nice.

[@Chokkan]

What?

[@rousseau327]

@da na Don't be a dick. Did you miss the part in the video where he literally said he wasn't trying to convert anyone? Just trying to provide a different perspective, which @Cinnabar Sonar did as well, for people to simply understand why someone else might like a 60% over a full-sized or TKL.

[@l4nternz]

I want one since I make music and things and like having extra desk room for things like midi controllers and a piano keyboard

[@InvidiousIgnoramus]

(Looks down at IBM Model M Battleship) Eh. To be fair, I also purchased a White Fox, which should arrive in December. :P

[@Chokkan]

Gotta respect the Battleship :) Enjoy your Whitefox.

[@IAMMrDale]

I would maybe get one if it had function keys and a num pad. Arrow keys would be sweeten the deal too.

[@DVRC]

One reason why 60% is good: Programming, especially if you use VIM

[@Chokkan]

See, so many people use programming as an example of why they're impractical without realising that even in programming the are different use cases and preferences.

[@DVRC]

@@Chokkan True, there are people who use 60% keyboards and editors like Emacs or VIM, and other that use full size keyboards and Nano. Another reason to pick a 60% would be cost: usually can be cheaper because you need less keycaps, switches, and the case and PCB is smaller

[@DVRC]

@@makavili4429 Because using HJKL for moving inside VIM Is more efficient

[@chasedoesmontages3881]

Chokkan how do u f11

[@Zalazaar]

It doesn't look better. It just looks symmetrical, which is a boring aesthetic

[@CraftyyFruit]

1:47 wtf. Cocky. It’s probably a 50% split.

[@KNULLIFIED]

I want to make my own keyboard, the thing is, a lot of kits or boards that are 80% or full are sold out or are really expensive, also I use the arrow keys and the delete key a lot. I use the numpad, but it's mainly for games, but I guess I could live without it, but I'd also need the all the function keys at the top and the tilde key, I wouldn't be sure what to get. I could probably make my own PCB, but for me rn that's just too much work.

[@JustSujC]

I prefer the tenkeyless layout since I frequently use the arrow keys as well as the other nav keys (Home, End, etc.)

[@Chokkan]

Yeah, I think tenkeyless is the only other layout most people find usable. Having used smaller layouts, I really like having the arrow keys on wasd or ijkl.

[@paklekj4429]

You can use 75

[@kenm2970]

I mean most of them probably barely ever use the numpad and wonder why people get tenkeyless and 60%

[@XenetifyGD]

The reason why i use a 60% keyboard is: *i asked for a tkl but instead got this*

[@Hankbob_Hillpants]

I’ve never had issues with desc size, and my desc is just under a meter wide, but I guess if you use low dpi mouse settings you could benefit from a few extra inches

[@Cobalt985]

Yes, that was exactly why I bought one. But I don’t even play FPS games anymore so the main benefit is that I had a lot less switches to lube.

[@paklekj4429]

@@Cobalt985 less work less money to spend

[@aitor.online]

post more this is my 60 videos. they're so great

[@Chokkan]

Thanks mate! I will be posting another video in the next week or two.

[@aitor.online]

awesome cant wait :D

[@hannibalkim]

I need my nav clusters and Function keys. 60% keyboard is a deal breaker.

[@laremare]

I understand leaving out the numpad since I never use it, so a tkl is sensible to me. Removing the arrows and home keys is pretty weird but that also saves quite a lot of space. But ffs *DO NOT TOUCH THE F-KEYS* Also many of these 60% keyboards are quite expensive compared to full sized or tkl boards of the same price

[@Chokkan]

Well, I mean leaving out the numpad is just as crazy for a lot of people. I'm just glad we don't live in that alternate universe where all keyboards are the same.

[@iLiokardo]

Set FN to caps lock and boom. e a s e

[@rousseau327]

I don't understand how you can't even understand why others prefer the 60%. F-keys is crucial to you, but it's absolutely useless for others, not always because they don't use the F-row, but it's simply easier to program it into layers for us. I cannot type without a number-row, but I can understand why someone can do without it, and go for a 40% board. I can also understand why someone cannot do without the F-row, arrow cluster, or numpad, and thus will never purchase a 60% board. And 60% boards are quite expensive compared to full sized/tkl of the same price? Now that statement doesn't make any sense at all. Same price but more expensive?

[@Chokkan]

Yeah, I think it's important to 🐻 in mind that people use their computers in lots of different ways.

[@absolutezero6190]

The f keys I don't use at all really, only for volume and brightness

[@computethis7128]

i couldnt go without a full board so i got a k70 lux. Infact i find myself wishing i had extra macro keys to bind to as i want more keys. I use every key for something. And some still overlap and find myself constantly reminding to not mess something up.

[@Chokkan]

Yeah having the ability to customise to that extent is a feature I cannot give up. What kind of macros do you have on your k70 lux?

[@computethis7128]

Chokkan I don't currently have any actual timed macros as I don't need one yet however I'd love to bind extra keys for stuff like recording buttons, screenshots, extra game keya for mods and stuff like that. Currently for recording I use the function keys but many games use them as well so they overlap and I use a numpad key for screenshots and other things but many things need them as well so it is difficult. Many I should have gotten a k95 platinum but I barely have the desk size for a regular size and can't even fit my mouse on properly. I have a g502 Proteus spectrum mouse and I had to get rid of my mat that goes under both mouse and keyboard as it couldn't fit the keyboard with much room for a mouse so Now I have no mat what so ever. My desk is the width of a door or just a bit more than a chair so I do have an appeal for a small form keyboard but I'd miss the other keys and I often use arrows for things aswell.

[@rajvinder89]

The only reason I use a 60% is when I'm on the go, at home I use a fullsize board.

[@viserez3672]

can anyone help, so i have a royal kludge keyboard and whenever i play games or type, my keys will just change randomly, i will have too use function key too press like backspace or /. and i don't know how too turn it back, it just turns back on its own after a while. im very new too 60% keyboards.

[@mangehd6262]

really great video chokkan. i still think the imagur community wont understand though ;)

[@Chokkan]

We'll bring them over one at a time :)

[@TyJ55]

mangeHD try getting them to understand Artisans

[@mangehd6262]

Tyler Tyler Tyler... you will cause yourself alot of headaces from that my friend.... good luck

[@TyJ55]

Just watched your channel trailer, and the imgur comments overlay is one of the funniest things ive ever seen in a keeb vid. Well done.

[@Guanjyn]

I came here to try and understand. I would miss the F keys too much. I tend to save scum in video games.

[@Chokkan]

You can save scum to your heart's content. Just function and the number 9.

[@skylimitua]

what I fail to understand is why people prefer 60% over 65%

[@7x13mx]

What’s that keyboard? It looks so dope/retro with its grey and white color scheme

[@Always-Decent]

For the F keys, you just hold the function key and press one the number keys depending on which ever F key you need to press? 🤔

[@willdavis188]

yes, on my 60% if i hold fn and press 1 then it inputs F1

[@ApexierGS]

For me 68 keys and 84 keys are aesthetically pleasing, and I can reprogram unused keys to something I always use but is out of reach like, !? and -, I hardly ever use []{}\/ and those can be shoved in an FN layer, also the spacebar I use is only big as the V and B keys so that would mean I can shrink space bar and add more modifier keys

[@Likeusb1]

I don't agree that 60% keyboards look nice. They just look not smooth ig. I like full sized because it's usually smoother

[@rvs55]

TBH, it's just for the looks. They want a clean or so-called nice looking desk space and are willing to give up practicality for it. Willing to have to use 2-key actions for what would be more convenient or faster single-key actions. Form over function. Vanity over practicality. That's about it.

[@sittingwonderduck]

This. 60% keyboards are overhyped with casual typists who probably type 60-80 wpm but do not know how to fully utilize hotkeys using the F1-F12 keys, home/end, page up/down, esc, and yes even the Pause Break key. There is so much utility in a 100¹ keyboard. I tried to get into this whole 60% keyboard fad but cannot. I don't even have an F2 key to rename a file. I have to do FN + 2 (number row) which is a super far stretch with my left hand thumb and pinky. Tldr. 60% keyboards are for filthy casuals. Bring on the hateful comments.

[@rvs55]

@@sittingwonderduck To each his own I guess. I use the Fn keys in my work, games, as well as normal use. Ditto the arrow keys to scroll up and down. Same for the numpad. One hand to fly over the numpad to key in numbers in Excel. All without having to use layers. Eg, Alt-F4 is Alt-F4..... not Alt-Fn-4. And the arrow keys are arrow keys, not Fn + IJKL.... heh. And my left hand is freed up while keying in numbers, fast. And a full-sized 104 is only 15cm longer, and 5cm deepr than a 60%. So on my 60 inch desk space.... what is 15 cm more? As I said... it's just aesthetics, at least for me.

[@sittingwonderduck]

@@rvs55 Nothing wrong with 60%. If you enjoy it and prefer that, that's up to you. I respect that. But I just felt the need to explain that at least.

[@rvs55]

​@@sittingwonderduck Nah, I don't use a 60%. Can't stand them. But like I said. It's up to them what they want it for. I just think it's for the aesthetics. Reasons like "it's easier to use", I consider them excuses. Because using 2 keys to do what you can with 1 key.... and saying that it's better than moving your hand a couple more inches to the right or left, is BS. LOL. If you say you like 'em because they look nice on your desk, then that's all cool. Though aesthetics are, of course, subjective. heh.

[@TroyFletcherKeyboards]

Great video!

[@Chokkan]

Thanks, mate! ^This guys does so cool hand built boards on his channel, so check him out!

[@kalebhebert6483]

ive built up so much muscle memory with my f keys, the cleaner look is far short from worth it.

[@wildjinzo2783]

Hello, a pleb here, with a tkl commenting on an old video. Yes,you CAN use a full keyboard in a 60% but by using two keys. Switching out a layer,having muscle memory to remember every layer,and literally, it's not practical. You sacrifice fuctionallity for space. Why cant people with 60% admit they're paying more for something smaller, that just looks cool? Sure,we're not using the home buttons,or that arrows that much, but damn, when i wanna use them,i want them to be right there,not on another layer. Oh and literally every keyboard enthusiast spends more on his keyboard (Especially 60%) than he does on his monitor or even sometimes computer. I'll never understand it even as an active member of mk.

[@Chokkan]

You're right in that having to press on one button doesn't require you to learn a new layout. I've been using Photoshop on my 40% and it's less than ideal to say the least. However, I do think that some people value the reasons I gave above. I think people also learn at different speeds. I know because I'm here typing at less that 40 wpm :) Thanks for the comment.

[@rousseau327]

No one will admit they're paying for something smaller that just looks cool, because that's just not true. The only thing impractical about 60% keyboards with the need for 2-button commands is the initial learning curve. In actual practice, it is easier, for those who like 60%s, to use the layers because you're never searching for a key further than where your fingers are already placed. And the only reason why it seems like enthusiasts spend more on 60%s is because 60% enthusiast boards are more widely available due to the more universal compatibility that is mentioned in the video. There are quite a few custom TKL or full-sized boards, and those cost just as much as the custom 60% boards you're referring to, often times even more due to the additional material and machining. There are affordable, non-custom 60% boards out there as well. In no world does an equivalent 60% cost more than its larger counterparts. Like the video says, nobody's trying to convert you to a 60% user, but it's really not hard to understand how someone else might like one.

[@MALO-nn5iy]

Some people can afford an HHKB customize it and just show it to everyone. And uses different keyboard for work.

[@rousseau327]

And equivalent TKL or full-sized keyboard is no cheaper.

[@ProjectExMachina]

60% keyboard? Too many keys for my taste.

[@Chokkan]

+darko99x Madman!

[@mewhenfuto9918]

lol same 40% satisfy me

[@ProjectExMachina]

My keyboard had 48 keys. Now it have 36.

[@johncochran8497]

Hey, then go full custom with a mere 12 keys under one hand. Use 4 keys (one per finger) to select one of 16 values, then have the thumb hit one of 8 keys underneath it to actually strobe the selected character into the keyboard. Result is you can type any of the 128 basic ascii values using just 1 hand, so your other hand can remain on the mouse.

[@siebiscut9203]

N O R M I E S I use the 1% keyboard, its just the WASD

[@RichyDooda]

Im thinking of buying one because 1.small hands 2.fits my desk 3.pros use it DUUUH Con 1. My beloved arrow keys :(

[@FEARDROP]

I use 60% because I'm a smaller person. And my right arm hurts when the keyboard is too long ~

[@KangoV]

I think something like the Vortex Race 3 is the best compromise ans till looks cool

[@Chokkan]

Vortex are doing a good job bringing other form factors to the mainstream.

[@mr.broski4849]

I preferably go for a 100 percent keyboard, just cause i use all the keys, but if someone likes 60 percent then go for it.

[@mr.broski4849]

aieden home and end are used, i admit pause break isnt used, scroll lock is used, and the num pad is also used

[@mr.broski4849]

aieden not many people use them

[@nsp2249]

I'm going to get one because I play games fully diagonal but I also need my mouse to be level with where my hand is on the keyboard and the answer to that would 60% or ten keyless

[@nsp2249]

I meant I play on the keyboard fully diagonal

[@rationalraven8956]

I can't stand not having a dedicated num pad so I likely wouldn't even get a 10-keyless let alone 60%, but I agree they can be pretty stylish and for some people who never need to enter large numerical data sets the num pad might not be necessary.

[@Chokkan]

There are times when I really like having it, and as you can tell from my logo, I really like the 1800 layout that keeps a compact numpad and arrows. I'm using the TX1800 on my desk at work right now and it really is way too big. Looks really cool there though amongst all the ASUS notebooks, and iPad Pros my co-workers have.

[@rationalraven8956]

+Grutch That's a fair point, I hadn't really considered that before, but left-hand num pad would probably be ideal.

[@rousseau327]

Finally someone who is reasonable! Perfectly OK for someone to never want to touch anything less than full-sized, but damn, it's not hard to understand why someone else might prefer a smaller keyboard

[@westy6094]

I’ve bought a ducky one 2 mini how do I use my IJKL key it’s been replaced with arrow keys

[@AverageAsianMe]

I love my ducky shine mini.

[@Chokkan]

They're very loveable. 🐤

[@Harry_B09_]

I use it cuz I need my mouse closer 2 the keyboard for gaming

[@Reminascend]

My parents made me get a full keyboard 😭 I wanted that 70$ 60% keyboard that is faster than Apex Pro

[@Crazyollie123]

I need to get a 60 percent for my computer science class, for some reason my college thinks that giving you hands a beating with a membrane keyboard is an acceptable practice. I did just buy a nice pc122 from unicomp though so i think my full size keyboard cred is just fine.

[@Chokkan]

Yup, that pc122 puts you in the big leagues as far as full size goes. Which 60% board do you have your eye on?

[@Crazyollie123]

Probably a vortex poker 3 but i am really not too sure, i used cherry keyboards for a about a year and i was always kinda of frustrated by at least one aspect of the switch. Blues were too light, browns were scratchy and the tactile bump never lined up with the key actually registering. I will probably have to order a bunch of switch testers, any advice would be appreciated though.

[@andysun1911]

The reason I don't use a 60% keyboard because I need to use backquote

[@cawnuhr]

people use 60% keyboards because they play on a low sensitivity, resulting in needing more space to move their mouse around.

[@Chokkan]

This. Also, if they have 5 keyboards on their desk, which I can relate to at this moment.

[@VMiXEZ]

I’m a programmer and I love my 60% keyboard.

[@adamkoxxl]

@@makavili4429 I bet he uses some key+ H/J/K/L for arrows so he doesnt move his hand from letters

[@adamkoxxl]

@@makavili4429 hey! can i ask you where did you buy it and how much it cost? i am thinking about buying it too

[@Chokkan]

Tap keys is one of my favourite features about custom firmware like QMK. Nice to see Ducky using it.

[@cb6278]

liar

[@nicknxtdoorr]

I want to get a 60% keyboard but I don’t know how I am going to use the numbers

[@CommanderKingpin]

I wish there where more parts for tkl keyboards... would love a metal Case for my ducky

[@deltac9x545]

I love the 60% keyboards but I still don’t understand the special keys

[@lafdew]

might be a dumb question but are the 60% ones smaller than a full sized one? by that i mean are the spaces between the keys shorter. so say a person with smaller hands would be more comfortable with a 60% over a full sized

[@apriIIa]

how do i go in full screen if i don't have f keys

[@Binky_Bro]

60% keyboards are better for gaming because you have more room for your mouse

[@aretard7995]

not really

[@MogTheLynx]

Comfort and looks are point that absolutely are not counting towards 60% keyboard i think. I think it looks ugly af to have such a tiny keyboard where you can only access most of the keys through shortcuts or alternatives instead of just having it there

[@qwasd0r]

TINY BABY HAND MAN!

[@Chokkan]

🤗

[@slippy8813]

I wanna get one to help me move my hands around for gaming easier my desk is also kinda small