Why Do We Still Play Vanilla World of Warcraft?

[@WoWHardcoreClips]

Vanilla is a gaming masterpiece

[@HallyVee]

... for an MMO.

[@Lizard1582]

​@@HallyVeewhich is impressive because mmos usually suck.

[@PastorVivonZulul]

​@@Lizard1582 MMO before WoW were very special. Leveling experience was there, group oriented at all time to reach your goal faster. F-ing long raid. No bs, just lore, exploration, gearing and making friend. No dungeon/raid finder which ruined the group social. No instance or very limited to dungeon and raid.

[@Lizard1582]

​@@PastorVivonZulul Well they were barely even called MMOs back then. The majority time of that term's existence has been bad games.

[@PastorVivonZulul]

@@Lizard1582 ???? UO - Everquest - daoc - swg - Lineage - t4c - Asheron call’s??? You okay dude? Blizzard havent created the mmo genre. They just had a big reach from starcraft diablo and warcraft. Blizzard took over the mmo genre and butchered it over each expansion. Thats why classic hardcore is so popular. The game is slower and harder like a true mmo should be.

[@scxiao]

There are a couple of reasons why I prefer classic over retail; -Your professions really matter, not only at maxlevel but even when leveling. The world is dangerous and gear upgrades are few and far between so having alchemy to make elixirs and health pots or having leatherworking to constantly craft gear upgrades really helps. -The world is dangerous. You can't solo elite quests (with some exceptions) so you need to group with other people, socialize, form friendships and build your reputation. -The gear is iconic, you are not just farming the highest itemlevel possible but early raids and even 5-man dungeons stay relevant for a long time. -Every class feels unique. Not everyone has a stun, heal, CC breaker, cleanse etc but at the same time no class is TOO overcomplicated. I have mained Rogue since the original tbc up until Shadowlands where the class just isn't fun anymore.

[@grandmascloset8351]

every class feels unique frost bolt bolt bolt bolt bolt forst bolt frost bolt

[@Gouldstrick]

@@grandmascloset8351 While I understand the meme, it's also a very stupid one. All rotations for every class is very simple, that is not what makes them feel unique, it's the other things they bring to the table. What you're saying can be applied to all classes, they all have 1-2 buttons pretty much.

[@theperfectbeing]

​@@grandmascloset8351 Spoken like someone that spends their time getting carried in raids. Go take a look at a top end frost mage vs prep rogue with full engineering fight or flag running in wsg. If that's not your flavor then go try to learn 300+ mob Maradon solo farm pull. The classes all feel dramatically different with how they play in all aspects of the game. All classes being able to do a mechanic easily instead of bringing in another class with a more specialized ability actually lessens the RP value of classes. In classic there is huge difference between taking a frost mage to a dungeon compared to an affliction lock or MM hunter.

[@grandmascloset8351]

@theperfectbeing such a huge difference it literally shuts out certain specs because there no real reason to use it. Classic sucks shit anyone who thinks it isn't a straight downgrade in literally every aspect outside of leveling is huffing copium

[@rickroll9705]

uh. -retail professions nowadays are far more complex and offer bis items. -fair, but then again not be able to do anything if nobody is around is just horrible. -gdkp removed all the iconism from gear lol. -EEEEEH, i dont know man, some classes feel unique and powerful others feels horrible to play in classic, my rank 13 ret isnt exactly peak gameplay experience.

[@ZeroDimes]

Grounded story, easy gameplay that is still satisfying, and you're challenged all the way to level 60. Good video.

[@vulgrin9573]

I fully agree, well summarised man. I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)

[@lewssss]

You hit every nail on the head, great vid. I hope for classic+ every day

[@vulgrin9573]

Thank you, I'm really glad you enjoyed the video and I share your hope for classic plus

[@HierophanticRose]

Yes, even something like Turtle WoW amount of additions would go a long way

[@krakenslayer9376]

Og crash bandicoot jams ties the nostalgia trip together wonderfully, been having a blast lvling a shaman again

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I hope you continue to enjoy your time with your Shaman!

[@nicholascox6411]

Because it's perfect. It's a complete game.

[@stevejeffrey11]

it has dozens of flaws, bad talents, only a few viable specs for endgame raiding, tedious leveling, massive time sink

[@nicholascox6411]

@@stevejeffrey11 cry more

[@stevejeffrey11]

wotlk is at least fun with interesting rotations & cans till raid while having a life. @@nicholascox6411

[@yallahyallah4220]

No one said it better than Kevin Jordan, in Classic "You the player are the best content" and you'll be part of a community that creates stories players won't forget even after 20 years. Good shout, Morrowind is also my most favourite singleplayer game of all time, if you want to completely get lost in a foreign universe and don't shy away from reading or old graphics, Morrowind will remove you from reality like hardly any other game, through atmosphere, storytelling and fantastic music. Also there is no better feeling than the attitude of all kinds of npcs towards you developing through your progress in the game, from spitting and complaining right next to you, to admiring you or commenting your appearance in passing.

[@vulgrin9573]

I grew up with Oblivion as a kid, and then discovered Morrowind a year before Skyrim came out. The older I get, the stronger I am in my view that Morrowind is not only the best TES game, but probably the greatest single-player RPG ever. As someone primarily interested in narrative, visuals and world design, I just think that no game comes as close to capturing the feeling of a real alternate world than Morrowind. Its like Dune or Middle-Earth in how well developed and unique it is. Everything from the architecture to the lore of the Dunmer is mature and distinct. Excellent game 10/10!

[@ArchsageCanas]

The point about convenience is exactly one gripe I already had between Vanilla and TBC. I farmed the 5000g for the epic mount before the expansion hit in 2020 and soon realised afterwards how tiny Outland became because of it (It was already small before). This is because the size of a video game world is not measured in pixels, triangles or file size but rather in velocity: 'How long does it take to travel from end to end or just in general: How often do you travel?' Classic has lots of travelling and while there are flight points, some areas still need a long time to reach. No teleportation unless you have one of eight classes with you and already three in total present. Because we as a species are lazy and don't like wasting time, a more efficient planning of the routes in questing can reduce that redundancy of travelling. Gather enough quests for an area warrants a journey there. There are those two completed quests in the log that are somewhat on the way back to the city so perhaps keep them until going back to learn new skills and taking a detour. This 'planning' of your journey is one reason why Vanilla feels more like an adventure to me than say TBC or Wrath. A linear series of questing hubs stringed together that you do one after another feels more like a path carved out for you than you deciding where to go. But it extends past it. With rather primitive options to find dungeon/raid groups, there is a need to interact with people: From a self moderated looking for group channel, to guilds or server forums (nowdays discords), all is needed to end up finding groups. People are more willing to go out of their way to extend their friend list and getting to know some folks, making friends having a huge benefit just gameplay wise. People made fun of retail when I dipped into Classic (never played beyond TBC) but Wrath is already very automatic in this sense with the previous expansion laying the foundation.

[@azzgunther]

Vanilla operates as a surrogate reality, with many of the trials and joys of real life (even arguably an idealized version of real life - men want to kill dragons). As you say, the very first expansion ruined much of the adventure and subsequently removed the satisfaction of conquering things.

[@theperfectbeing]

It ruined most PVP for me, having people be able to gank you from the sky and then just fly away at epic speeds was just stupid. In a pvp environment you have to give people who died the ability to come back for revenge and call in reinforcements. I have experienced NOTHING in retail that compares to the fights we had in Classic while contesting the hives in the Silithius. Those fights were legit 50 vs 50 sized fights that lasted for days, they died down a bit at night but you could go there at any time of day during the gates opening and find people to farm with or fight.

[@calki263]

I’m a new player to wow, played RuneScape for over 20 years, I love hardcore. I can’t believe I’ve never played before. that dwarf hunter in the snow clip, I remember seeing that on tv years ago I’d love to watch that commercial again!

[@FiFiFilth]

I just started playing WoW for the first time about a week ago. What struck me is that I can decide on my own where to go and quest, thus I can experience the game the way i choose to. But what was even more surprising was the helpfulness of the veterans. I had people sending me gold to buy my first glyphs, I had a level 8 help me with a quest for 2 hours. He also showed me around the world while at it. I always found groups to make questing more fun aswell. I can't understate how social people are. I have never seen that before in any game. I feel like I already made more friends than in months of playing other games.

[@user-Marrk]

Vanilla is the wild west. It's rough, uneven and all the better for it!

[@Zaurthur]

Nothing gives me more confidence in a video essay than starting the video telling me how little you think of your own opinion.

[@falconmick]

The whole favourite ice cream is vanilla gag still puts my arm hairs strait up lol I’m a freak

[@RCNobles]

It’s the music. That early soundtrack takes you back in time. Couple that with the zones and you are in nostalgia heaven.

[@Konstantin1318]

Yes. I can still remember the soundtrack from vanilla by heart. In retail they feel like just background noises.

[@HuntGraydon]

I legit love this video. I get goosebumps watching it. Thank you so much. Classic WoW is just magic.

[@vulgrin9573]

Thank you man, I really appreciate your kind comment 😊

[@wilddude4205]

bro u deserve so much more views its crazy.. came here from asmon and im wonderin why so less ppl came over to give u the respect

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks man that's very kind. I appreciate Asmon and his viewers taking the time to watch the video and I'm glad people enjoyed it, cheers!

[@javamonkeyj]

Watched this several days ago but forgot to comment. Love your perspective and I think you got this 100% right. Great dialogue. Editing is super smooth too.

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks man, I appreciate the support. I've been meaning to drop a comment on your recent wrath video, it was very well done. 👍

[@violetlight1548]

For me, I loved the ability to make my own character, create her own backstory, and go an adventure of my choosing. I never wanted to be a "Champion" or "Warrior of Light" -- I wanted to be one of the little grunt units from WCIII running around. Since Cataclysm, it seems every expansion forces your toon into that "hero" role -- whether you want it or not. And knowing that *every* other player is also the "Hero and Only One who can Save Azeroth" just makes it seem fake to me. Like in BfA, there might as well have been a line up of players outside the Zandalari King's throne room, waiting to be declared "Speaker of the Horde". "You are da Speaka, and you, and you, and her, and that goblin over dere, and ..." it robs you of the opportunity to tell your own story, iMO. In the Vanilla trilogy, my main is an Orc raised in a Tauren tribe, who then married a Darkspear Troll (my RL husband's character). She's a hunter, perfectly happy with her husband/traveling companion and her (2) pets. I started playing in WotLK, had her all the way through to when I stopped playing retail in Shadowlands (I was PISSED with the level squish -- I *earned* all my levels the hard way!), and I never *once* thought she was the "Destined Hero of the Horde", nor should she be. I've remade her on my Vanilla + private server. Between how much more fun I'm having there, and my still being very angry by how Blizzard treats their female employees (showing they don't respect their female players either), I don't think I'll ever go back to retail.

[@vulgrin9573]

I think that you're totally right about the forced main character role that became the norm after Cataclysm. It feels really cheap and makes the game feel very single player to me. Feeling like just one of thousands of adventurers, rather than "the" hero - was a much better experience!

[@freedombuckofive9640]

As someone who still plays Retail, your take on this is exactly how I feel. Unfortunately Retail, aside from M+ and Raiding, has no consequences for your actions. The open world feels meaningless. Pull 5+ mobs without CC? No problem! In Classic on the other hand, you could potentially die pulling 2 mobs. Sure the combat is slower but it is more meaningful. It just "feels" right imo. As a result of the "tougher" world, players organically begin to communicate with each other to get help or help others. This simply doesn't happen in Retail and is one of the main reasons it gets such a bad rep for "lack of community". You don't need a community when you can just click a button and bam! Instant group for a dungeon/raid/world boss. Would love for Blizzard to create a Classic+ sticking to the original game style, without all the "convivence".

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion. I agree with pretty much everything you've said. My hope is that at Blizzcon we get an announcement regarding the future of WoW which is worth the wait, we will see!

[@dannyp9210]

Excellent video! It broadly encapsulates why some players prefer the style of Vanilla over the modern style in Retail. However, if we do get Classic+ some day, it will be a challenge to expand the game without making old content obsolete or less valuable. I suppose horizontal progression could be a way forward, but that has challenges on its own. Some new things I would find interesting to see: - Player housing - New stats - New dungeons & raids with new gear sets (which is why new stats can give new gear cominbations) - Expanded professions and maybe new ones - Mob and boss mechanics & abilities - New spells and talent combinations - Titles - Cosmetics - Hardmodes (but that maybe doesn't reward better gear, but other stuff instead, new tints for armor, titles, pets etc.) - Mini games (gardening, music, Shimmering Flats Races, , treasure hunting, boat building, PvP island etc.) etc.

[@vulgrin9573]

I agree that it would be hard to manage, especially because there's a challenge in continual horizontal progression. I think the best thing would be for them to complete the stuff which they didn't get to finish back in 2004; elements of class design, incomplete zones etc and then go from there. Maybe implement an OSRS style voting system.

[@gene1151]

actually a great video. rare nowadays to see them from classic only players who seem to just complain about retail wow and further the already existing tribalism in wow. i personally dont play classic and truly only find enjoyment in the m+ and mythic raiding content and the "adventure" part for me is not interesting. however i can fully see the reasoning why someone else would see this as the selling point of the game, especially if they played the original version back in the day, which i did not. everyone should just play what they enjoy and thats the only thing that matters at the end of the day.

[@vulgrin9573]

Thank you for this comment, I really needed it! It never fails to amaze me how partisan the different communities of WoW can be. My interest is in good game design and improving on what we have, both in retail and Classic. They are different games for different types of gamer, the success of one doesn't need to come at the cost of the other and I wish more players would recognise that!

[@LordOfSweden]

Agree. I like vanilla and classic, for the social bit the most. But also: the story, the enviroments are amazing still 2023. Nostalgia. Not everyone is riding around on crazy mount, I like that. Dungeons. I like that there is no transmog. You can see who is powerful and what gear they have. I like that there are so many starting zones. The music is amazing. It's just such a cozy game overall! Agree with you about the mount and inconvience. I never forget getting my first mount and how hard it was 😂 I was running til I was like 55 cause I was too poor to buy one Even in classic me and another friend I got in WoW were riding around so happy when we finally got our mounts 😂

[@serarthurdayne9490]

In Jan 2007 when TBC came out I had been playing Wow for a couple months and was around lvl 55. So of course I went straight to Outland. I enjoyed TBC but even then I was worried for the future of the game. By allowing Alliance shamans and Horde paladins, Blizzard essentially compromised the integrity of the game and its universe in order to create parity. Such changes soon became a trend so that today everyone can do everything. Everyone is the same. Back then the world was alive, you had to journey to a zone or dungeon. You had to form a group by speaking to people. In short, you had to work and nothing was given to you. When you saw a lvl 60 you knew that this player had played and learnt their class through 1,000s of kills, 100s of quests and endless travel and discovery. They knew the world. They’d seen it. You are entirely correct about the mounts in Wow. It’s not that they are so amazing, it’s that you had to suffer so much for so long until you get one. It’s a badge of honour, especially the epic mount. Modern Wow is a mess. It’s pointless. There is no achievement. Nothing is special or even coherent. It’s like a mobile game, not something that there is any reason to invest in. WOTLK drove me away from the game in 2008. Last night I hit lvl 53 in Classic and tanked Sunken Temple. At the end of the dungeon I looted the boss and hearthed out only to then realise that I should’ve used the item I looted in the dungeon to complete a quest. I had to laugh. Looks like I’ll be running ST again then! But that’s Classic. It’s not hard but it’s not going to hold your hand. Each adventure is unique to every character.

[@vulgrin9573]

I absolutely agree, and I completely share your pain when it comes to needing to re-run dungeons haha. I have about half a dozen Maraudon and ZF quests waiting for re-runs!

[@wastolero]

You basically argue that you have to "suffer" or work hard in a game and that achievements are kinda bound to time investment. I get your point and i agree partially. But saying Retail has no achievements makes really no sense. Every game has achievements as you can/should decide for yourself whats an achievement and what not. And beside that this game has literally hundreds of "formal" achievements you can go for. Not that you have to like them, others do

[@AntCommando]

When I see level 60s die to the dumbest stuff imaginable, they certainly mastered their class, just because someone can hit level cap is not a metric of skill, it's a metric of time, given enough time anyone can hit level cap, seeing a warlock hellfire a trash pack only to die is so skillful or the warrior who's parsing for damage pull threat on the boss and get 1 shot because he's not managing his aggro, is so skillful. Please... as Asmongold has said classic is easy, and simple, people only have 6 buttons to manage not 15 buttons, 5 oGCDs, 4 buffs, and 21 mechanics they need to execute in order or they wipe the raid, mythic raids are far more skill intensive on the player base than anything vanilla has to offer its why less then 10% of the player base even clears the content

[@Frexibo]

Great topic once again! I'm thinking about this a lot. Before Classic I used to think that Wrath was the best version of WoW that ever existed. Now that we experienced all 3 of the original trilogy AGAIN I feel like it would be a mix of all 3 that we will never see :(

[@vulgrin9573]

I think I probably agree with you on this. If I could combine Vanilla's world design and RPG focus, with the end-game scene of TBC and the combat improvements of Wrath, it would be something truly special

[@mcfarvo]

​@@vulgrin9573so true

[@SeeTee24]

great video! hit me right in the nostalgia feels 100 percent

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

[@vladpetrescu9727]

The game being hard and slow made it feel very good when you finally manage to achieve something. It is all about the journey. Cheers all !

[@daltonred7774]

I wouldn't call it hard at all. Slow is fair. Hard? Not at all. Just more time consuming

[@VersusTheWorld89]

Great video! I miss the days of being able to slam vanilla WoW and TBC all day and night. Some of the best days of my life I look back on regularly.

[@vulgrin9573]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video man, thanks :)

[@TheGraveyarder]

i like retail but still love classic. ❤❤ im just happy i can play both with one single sub.

[@vulgrin9573]

It is a great thing and I'm glad that players like yourself get that option without having to pay more for the privilege :)

[@gund2281]

This may show my age a bit, but I have begun to use descriptions of other games to "explain" WoW. Basically, the current "retail" version of WoW is a slot machine; designed for the dopamine hit by constant action, little downtime and very little thought process. Vanilla/Classic is a card game like Hearts or Pinochle; You deal the cards, plan your play, and on occasion have to rely on your partner to play their best card. The card game is quiet and conversational with your fellow players. Generally you'll all have a cup of coffee or something and you'll be chatting about other things while playing the game around a dining room table. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[@null6890]

Most enjoyable!! Thank you 🙏

[@FaithlessTHX]

I was 12 years old when World of Warcraft launched. Me and few friends started playing and by then, I was already a gamer. Sega gen, Playstation 1, Playstation 2, Diablo, Half life, Quake etc etc. WoW was something new, something that today, after so many years, the "Vanilla" version feels the same way just as it felt back on launch day before so many years. This will become an infinite player base/loop that will be a re-playble game for people. And no, it is NOT just nostalghia. The game is tailored and the "flaws" that some people point are what is seperating for example a Shaman from Priest, or mage from rogue. The only thing that might be worth investing in, is bringin the game with new graphical engine but with everything else the same! Cheers for the videos you make there are only things that are truths here! Ps: Doing full Blackrock Depths run, while listening the game ost and spending good 4+ hours inside feels more or less like a real journey and insane completion!

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks for your comment, I'm really glad to hear you enjoyed the video. You made me feel nostalgic for the days of Quake, Unreal Tournament, Neverwinter Nights etc. haha

[@nisse18]

You have to work your way through the world to your objective to have the adventure, if you instantly teleport there is of course no adventure to be had. Fast travel in SP RPGs and teleport to dungeon through dungeon finder in MMORPGs is not always a good idea.

[@Greg-gy7cd]

Vanilla and Morrowind coincidentally are my 2 favourite games. The sense of adventure in the world with danger lurking around every corner makes these games feel alive. They aren't just a go hear kill this, go there grab that. It's a real shame that we don't have MMO's or even RPG's to that fact that follow this game design now. Even the new elder scrolls games fail this concept and they lack that exploration feel because of it. The feeling of finally conquering a cave in Morrowind to find some great loot or out-levelling a zone in Vanilla that you once feared, they are senses of accomplishment that are rarely felt and why i just do not buy new games anymore. People slate Vanilla PVP however to me it's one of the purest forms of PVP in any MMO, yes there is a structure to killing certain classes but the abundance of items and consumable mean that a one sided match up can be flipped in a second and the need for improvisation is always required. The constant push for balance in future expansions only fueled losing that feeling of anything can happen. Imperfect balance is balance in a weird way.

[@vulgrin9573]

I'd also argue that as annoying as ganking is, I really love the random, unpredictable encounters out in the open world, especially at lower levels. You get some really fluid, dynamic situations where groups form, roaming battles across zones, lots of cool stuff

[@seagramsfetzner4078]

Good video, found you from Asmon.

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks man, I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

[@giovannysilva7735]

Ez for me to agree with you cuz if it wasn't for classic, I wouldn't be subbed. I keep a tank/ps geared on retail mostly cuz my wife keeps asking me to tank for her. Awesome vi m8, ty

[@vekokrava1423]

I started in TBC and when I tried vanilla in 2019, I have been amazed by how things used to be. I loved game so much that I played for 15 hours a day (I did not have job at that time, I only work in summer). Vanilla made me think of how MMOs are designed and how to design proper adventure like feeling in video RPG games. After TBC came out, I realized that I liked vanilla much more, then I went to retail and I just could not stand what WoW became. This was the moment when I truly realized that I am ''fucked'', I realized the importance of ignorance and I was angry at everything how it is and why some people enjoy retail and new content, so I decided to try new MMO, that was my first time to try new MMO, and that was New World at that time, which was kind of my savior. New World made me realize that I can enjoy new games, and to be honest I never could because of how much I loved WoW. New World was specific kind of game that is similar to vanilla WoW in many ways, like how for example I could play a merchant and immerse myself into crafting and especially gathering, the world PvP while gathering and sieges, dungeons were great, there were no mythic+ at that time and these were pretty hard with random people that had no idea what to do at release. Gear grinding was fun and experiencing everything fresh was adventure beyond what vanilla could ever offer. Today I play retail solo shuffles casually and I feel much healthier due to less gaming per day. I am excited for new NW expansion and I have some new games on my radar for the next year, honestly I feel much better and I think I made right decision to not play era, SoM, wotlk and or HC. I feel free from WoW and I started enjoying gaming rather then playing it to kill time or because it was my daily routine.

[@EricVWgolf]

Thanks !!! Fantastic content. This video has made me install and start my conquest into WoW EVER !! i never played :)

[@vulgrin9573]

Wow, awesome! I hope you enjoy it :)

[@Krowynd]

Here from Asmon, great video dude!

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks man, I'm glad you enjoyed :)

[@Lizard1582]

Damn bro, youre the first youtuber who actually knows what hes talking about it when it comes to brass tacks gameplay design.

[@vulgrin9573]

Haha thanks man that's a really kind thing to say. I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)

[@tysmuch3573]

Translation: The last thing I want to do is limit the number of players I can influence.

[@icelevel2437]

Great video and I appreciate the comparison to Morrowind. The reason I prefer Classic is because it's so undiluted. I've tried to play Retail, and while the mechanics are slick and fun to play, I lose my focus. Everything is popping up in your face telling you to "go here!" "check this out!" "take this detour!". There's so much going on to the point that it is distracting, and the storyline is so convoluted that I'm not sure what my purpose in the world is. Classic, on the other hand, says "here's the world, here's you. have fun", which is infinitely more fun. I will say though I thought Legion was a fantastic expansion and a great blend of modern WoW and a return to Classic sensibilities.

[@MagixxDOPE]

SoM just more frequently and with rewards at the end of it just like in PoE... would be insane! Love your content and your love to the game!

[@vulgrin9573]

That certainly sounds like an interesting idea! Thanks for the support, I'm really glad to know you enjoy the content :)

[@theperfectbeing]

The main difference with classic vs retail is that in classic you are given endless problems that a real adventurer would have to deal with. Did you bring enough food? Are you strong enough to take on this fight by yourself? Where do I have to go to find someone/quests that will allow me to advance? etc. In retail every single thing is spoonfed to you, none of the open world is challenging aside from outdoor bosses and everything is made so easy and antisocial that you can play for hours without having to go into the actual world at all or even talk to other players. In classic everything feels like it matters, ranging from how many consumes you have, your professions, which flight paths you have to try to make your way to, the pvp element with ganking and weighing risk vs reward for being in that zone, etc. I get none of that from retail, flying everywhere, never risking dying during a quest, i dont care at all about my professions or consumables and world pvp isn't a thing and even when it is the power levels between characters is so vast that it's not a fun interaction.

[@reffa2858]

As someone who hasn't played wow, I can understand why people prefer the older version of the game. Its the same reason I become disinterested in any singleplayer game or MMOrpg. It becomes too efficient and thats when it stops being fun. It less about discovery and journey and more about the Destination and how quickly you can get to it. Also I'll willing to bet that the newer version plays more on instant gratification. But that can only hold your attention for so long.

[@vulgrin9573]

I completely agree with you. The newer version of the game hits you with pop-ups trying to direct you towards different bits of content. It's designed to be helpful but totally kills immersion for me. I spent hours a few nights ago with a couple of friends just exploring the map in Classic WoW for....Absolutely no reason. We just wanted to hang out and have fun, without being told how to play the game "properly"!

[@jonrainbow123]

Maybe someone needs to make a video of why Classic WoW stacks up against other modern games. I just cant see myself spending the small amount of time I have every week on running around in classic with all the lulls in engagement. When I can go play any number of the dozens of amazing games over the last few years instead. I cant get over the idea that Classic WoW is for people who can spend incredible amounts of time on something for another reason besides "adventure". Why would I spend a second in classic WoW vs something like BG3, or any of the other hundreds of RPGs I haven't played yet. Unless I'm someone who has played all those games and now I have another 1000 hours to fill.

[@vulgrin9573]

I think its difficult to compare any MMORPG to a single-player or even localised multiplayer game. I know I discuss the similarity of gameplay elements between Vanilla WoW and Morrowind in this video, but I wouldn't go so far as to ask why I'd play one over the other, because they're a different genre of game entirely. MMOs are the worst games imaginable when played solo, but the very best when you have a group of friends around you. I've played a ton of RPGs and had a great time, but nothing compares to experiencing those adventures with your friends in a seamless world full of other people. Like I said, to me at least its a very different kind of game.

[@PatrickF.Fitzsimmons]

Been playing since day one. This isn’t classic I did it the first time, fresh, and a lot of it was a nightmare to get passed then. This is not the same and I would never need to do it again.

[@sundancer65]

Vanilla forever.. great video.. thx

[@fivo9028]

Very good video!!! Amazing work man. Thank you!

[@vulgrin9573]

Thank you man, it means a lot knowing that people enjoy the videos and got something out of watching them

[@dremfr]

Great video ! Thank you

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks dude, I'm really glad to hear you enjoyed it 👍

[@DandoBorusu]

Vanilla was and will be the best mmo of all time.

[@baneandeddu8115]

I stopped playing after TBC. A year ago, I got my account restored and even had to send my ID to blizzard to recover my account lol (so many hoops to jump through) My friend and I played a couple Worgens. I loved Gilneas. We both thought it was awesome. He never played WoW before. We were playing retail and having fun but he got bored. I'm thinking about trying classic. As of right now my wife and I play ESO. We have been playing for a long time, but I think it might be cool to try WoW hardcore. Holy crap, I'm tired and that's a terribly written comment but fuck it! Thanks for reading if you did.

[@vulgrin9573]

Its a slow burner but I think you'll enjoy it. Take your time and enjoy that slow pace of the game because in time it builds up to a real investment and immersion in the world and your character :)

[@baneandeddu8115]

@@vulgrin9573 Thanks, brother. I'm looking forward to it.

[@HierophanticRose]

I am loving Classic since 2019, also on Turtle WoW (they have 0.5x experience mode which is great and community was the pinnacle of Vanilla until recently) but I am of the minority that wishes for the modern graphics I guess. Imho, the graphics being old has no reason why Classic is good or not, its all about how the systems and gameplay works and incentivizes certain things. Maybe give it as a client side option like Ascension WoW does already.

[@alexbrooks2235]

Vanilla works due to many things. The world feels vast due to not being able to fast travel everywhere. Classes matter as not everyone can heal and tank. Community matters due to no megaservers, so interactions actually count. There's a push to multiplayer content... it's an MMO but so many have massive single player stuff. There's pretty much zero pay to win. That's off the top of my head.

[@cnh7262]

Thank you for this 🙏🏻

[@vulgrin9573]

Thank you!

[@Salubrious388]

I played wow upon release and was looking forward to trying classic again but it’s a completely different game. What made WoW good when it was released was the possibility of the social aspects. Wow was nearly the platform of which to socialise. Nowadays WoW feels dead and soleness imho. I tried a few different guilds and none were social at all. No one used voice comms to talk to each other and only spoke if they needed something. Society isn’t designed to play MMOs nowadays to be honest and for those that have found a social experience within the game (or most games nowadays) it’s more an exception to the rule. 😢 #SadTimes

[@HallyVee]

I believe the community has moved to Discord. Just a guess tho.

[@Salubrious388]

@@HallyVee the guilds I was in all used discord. But no voice comms activity, which is what I was suggesting in my message above.

[@vulgrin9573]

I can definitely see your argument. I think that you can still get some level of good socialization but I agree that there isn't that starry-eyed wonder that came with the age of the early internet. It was a very special and unique time

[@Salubrious388]

@@vulgrin9573 I’m glad I lived it in that era but now it’s ruined gaming as expect so much but experience so little. MMOs are so solitary nowadays and the fact you see people running around makes it a more lonely experience. I don’t think the typical KZbinr helps either, as all their content revolves around “min/max this” or “meta that”. Very few people look to enjoy games these days, they endure them instead. 😢👍

[@thomasmonks5715]

I only play classic era and hardcore. I use to like retail but i but i burned out. I find classic era and hc are the more chilled out versions. After my kids go to bed and my wife is playing her fallout 76 dailies i wanna relax before bed, classic really help cool down with, i play with no addons, i read the text and i dont google stuff. If i cant find it by myself then oh well but i enjoy searching everything by myself. As a kid i mostly played alliance and yeah my main for classic is over on alliance but with the advent of hardcore ive actually decided to try and explore all of azeroth from the horde perspectives on this more deadly version. Despite the deaths I'm havung a lot of fun on my new undead mage

[@NateTheScot]

Vanilla was a JOURNEY. At no point in vanilla did i ever go "man i wish i could skip all this to just be 60 already" but in retail the game is literally just a mindless race to the max level to "start the actual game". Gear is meaningless and generic, your class feels incomplete and far less fun than it did back then during levelling, and the whole game is designed for AND BY a tiny top tier 0.1% of players to minmax mythic plus or mythic raid strats that require 200 addons and 50 weakauras and a raid coach who isn't even in the game... Vanilla was what a game should BE.... a FUN experience, where you genuinely felt you were on a journey and the people you met would influence that journey in positive or negative ways just like in real life. I recently stopped playing Destiny 2 for a bunch of reasons, but i stopped even casually logging in to do some nightfalls or w/e because i just hated grouping with randoms who ran off ahead trying to basically clear the whole thing by themselves... it's not a fun experience because then EVERYONE has to behave that way to not be left behind... in vanilla wow i genuinely ENJOY grouping with other people and doing quests together and interacting with other players. It doesn't force you to directly... it just encourages you to in order to make life easier. You COULD ignore elite quests and dungeons and stuff, but the best loot is usually from these quests whilst levelling, so even before endgame you're encouraged to group up and take on challenges together, and sometimes even the bad runs can forge bonds of friendship. You spend 4 hours in a slog of a mauradon run with a tank who doesn't know the way but also refuses to listen... so you and the healer end up becoming friends as you both desperately try to wrangle this tank and the other dps (who don't really give a damn either way) around this giant dungeon avoiding the wrong paths or waterfalls you can't get back up from etc. I have so soooo many memories of nights spend with my group of friends and brother that would farm BRD, then on to Strat and Scholo and later LBRS and then making UBRS raids before finally getting onto raiding (where the jealousy and purple fever took over and ruined many friendships lol). But that first part where we were just adventuring into the dungeons and farming the good drops we'd researched on Thottbot... chatting on ventrilo and shit talking our gnome mage friend who would always get bored whilst we were discussing tactics so he'd stand there casting pyroblast at a nearby enemy from the next pull, then jumping before it cast to cancel it, then invariably he'd lag and not jump in time and pull it by accident and die... Ah good times. Or the endless Diremaul runs we did and by chance we got a Quel'Serar book drop that my brother's gnome warrior took and we helped do the full quest for the blade... or the time the rare spawn was up in the arena in the middle of DM so we killed it and got an orb of deception drop which i won... and since i was a night elf it turned me into an undead... and i also happened to have Baron Rivendare's mount so i could be an undead riding an undead mount, but on alliance... back in vanilla that confused the FUCK out of both the horde and some alliance players lol. So many memories, from so long ago... there's so few anything close to that from cata and beyond. I have a bunch from TBC, and still a few in WotlK... but the vast majority of my favourite wow memories are from Vanilla.

[@minichampion2]

Vanilla was made for an older audiance like 20+/25+ year old people In my opinion. Lots of the original crew members who created Vanilla was working on Ever Quest before and EQ was also targeting a bit older audiance of people. While we moved forward the game was simplified in my aspects in order to reach out to younger people. Long story short: Vanilla is for man, retail is for boys

[@vulgrin9573]

I think part of the difference relates to the overall demographics of gamers these days. Mmos were very niche in 2004, people who played them tended to be quite invested and seasoned. Now a much wider audience engages in gaming, which leads to the dumbing down of a lot of elements

[@anthonyracaniello4082]

I like to play both retail and classic I enjoy retail when pushing 2k in pvp as my holy paladin main and classic when I relive my old mains as my hunter and rogue I get the best of both worlds and can enjoy both at my own pace

[@Navi_xoo]

I think both are good experiences but I definitely have fonder memories of my first time leveling on Classic in a PvP server. This was on launch though not sure if people can get the same experience anymore.

[@DrugsAreForWinners]

I really hate that I had to see Asmon's video first to find this so I could give the view to the actual creator. That being said, i've been enjoying HC Vanilla so much, i'm really glad I have the chance to play it.

[@vulgrin9573]

I'm glad you're having a great time in HC man, and thanks for taking the time to stop by my channel, I appreciate it :)

[@HallyVee]

A lot of things mentioned here are definitely due to the difference between era and everything else. But I think the primary and first difference is that the combat is more toward the RPG end of the scale rather than the action end. There are plenty of amazing action games without fast travel, where side quests and professions matter. I'm not playing those.

[@porkysanchez7371]

Spot on! 👍

[@YepMarko]

Well some changes came with a game change that happened during time. For example lvl cam getting to lvl 70 than 80 than even more 85, makes no sense to let people stuck at lvl 63 or 44, when everything they do make 0 impact on end game. So make leveling time easier so people can just get familiar with a class. Next some classic dungeons are really drag like Sunken temple or Mara, you need 3 h just for that, from getting all quest to making group than moving your group to that place than clearing it... now imagine doing that for every singe dungeons when literally every gear just is helping stone to get faster to max level, make no sense. Leveling can be meaningful only in 2 cases 1 when it's sole purpose of game and integral part as it's a really big part, like in vanilla all raids are fun but, apart from them there is nothing more so yu just keep leveling other classes ect. Make more sense to make different toons like profession toon, gathering toon... 2-when leveling will impact your end game, and again here we are in vanilla where that's case also, your pri bis comes from dungeons way back at early lvl 50. you have attuments that are also part of leveling, and reputation grind, crafting gear you get mats earlier or some pvp gadgets that you get at lvl 40. And even socials are part of vanilla having small servers, that when you gto big mega servers why would you socialize with one tiem see guy?

[@kreythernox5069]

I Mean, the most important thing is that the game basically forces you to social/group up. Also the magic is hidden in it's imperfections! Then it has so much Content from start to finish, If this was an EA Game you had that after 35 paid dlc with a service fee on top Without the Playerbase, Classic is not better then any other itteration of it.

[@squallphin]

For me is the world PVP ,also leveling is like an endurance test

[@dakufire21]

I prefer retail easier to raid, and all classes can do their class ability with cool animation. Warrior and Paladins are funner in retail.

[@Mugetsu2021]

Sooooo nostalgia is the answer

[@michaeljamison7303]

The first few expansions of wow felt like the continuation of Warcraft 2/3 etc, current wow feels like a completely different game and genre all together

[@Smalls989]

asmon sent me, great video

[@vulgrin9573]

thanks, I'm glad you liked it :)

[@Quintessence4444]

Part of it is just how big vanilla WoW is compared to the expansions.

[@vulgrin9573]

I agree. TBC had some absolutely incredible, vibrant and unique zones, but after that I think they became more generic and bland, as well as the world being significantly smaller than the base game. Its difficult to feel like you're on a grand adventure when the world you're in is suddenly 1/4 the size of the original world and full of flight points and flying mounts.

[@ManOfSdeel]

Post Vanilla, here's my take. Vote NO on: LFG/Welfare Epics/Zone Scaling Vote YES on: The Resilience Stat and Challenge Modes

[@vulgrin9573]

I did really enjoy Challenge Modes, I think to an extent something like that could work well in Vanilla and elements can be seen in the Stratholme event for Atiesh for example, where there was a bit of extra difficulty for those worthy of it

[@mrphil747]

Good video! As always

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@walterhammer-nielsen5921]

Yes I agree with you 100% :)

[@Atthetta]

Why do we still play Chess? Because it's perfect, it sets the standard for all else, for centuries to come.

[@dremora2232]

The game can never balance a meaningful experience with availability for a wider audience.

[@HermannTheGreat]

I agree, it's simply not a game for casual players imo.

[@dremora2232]

@HermannTheGreat they should work on creating content that is everlasting instead it being valid for one expansion and then it's just a transmog/loremaster zone.

[@ToadAll]

Great Video :]

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks dude!

[@Jalae]

gw2 music : praise joko

[@hellsexpress2560]

real and true takes

[@ZapatosVibes]

True and real. /salute

[@joel6376]

>is it not amazing that this old game is popular No, its not. Many games are like this - however service games like wow change over time so the old versions become inaccessible.

[@hoffyc.h393]

I Like both Classic 60 and the progression of WOTLK Era of classic, First I played 2019 to WOTLK P2, after that lvled fresh again in Classic 60, after that played HC until i died on my first HC Character at lvl 44. And know i'm back to WOTLK again and started on a fresh there and is now lvl 61 and enjoy the more Powerful and easy lvling :D And Retail isn't WoW anymore so never playing that, oh yeah just maybe if they do a total Reset like in FF14 :)

[@vulgrin9573]

I think the difficulty of Blizzard doing a "total reset" similar to FF14 is that many of the issues I see as part of the problem are so baked in that I doubt they could get rid of them. For example I think that things like the wow token are terrible, but there is no chance of them ever removing such a lucrative transaction from the retail game.

[@nicholascox6411]

Classic is the Fallout New Vegas of Blizzard .

[@azertyqwerty2503]

Vanilla is the true mmorpg the best mmo in history an actuall online rpg a virtual world where you can do the things you can't do in real life

[@eulachster]

great video.

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks, I'm really glad you enjoyed it :)

[@megalaxmax9979]

Building a game from the ground up makes a dev so much more invested in the bones of the experience. I think TBC kept a lot of that (since Outland was originally intended) but as expansions went on and staff changed they simply didn't have the same vision and love of the project.

[@vulgrin9573]

I think TBC felt extremely close to Warcraft 3, as did Vanilla for me. After that though things did change and a new era began. The game even started to look different and whilst many enjoyed it, I always think it lost its unique direction and style.

[@greendalf123]

WoW 2 should just be classic 50 years into the future and with updated graphics

[@vulgrin9573]

I often ask myself if WoW 2 will ever happen in the literal sense of us getting a brand new game rather than patches and expansions. I don't know if Blizzard would consider it too much of a gamble to invest the resources necessary, or have the player base wait upwards of 5-10 years for such a game. I personally want Classic Plus to be that "WoW 2", but how they would implement it is beyond me. But who knows, Metzen is back - could mean big news this year, we can only hope

[@greendalf123]

@@vulgrin9573 I mean honestly, one thing I hate about Blizzard is how they don't take chances anymore. Why haven't we seen a Warcraft 4? Warcraft 3 literally set up the entire world and all the major characters. With Metzen back I wish they'd allow a WC4 RTS. Or hell break the mould, give me a ARPG set in the WC universe that sets up a new generation of characters (kinda like founding of Durotar), why does it always have to be Diablo thats the ARPG? Why can't Diablo get an RTS or a story driven RPG ala Witcher 3? Why can't we get a Halo-style FPS set in Starcraft. They literally made the biggest ip in gaming and abandoned them.

[@faculty1]

because every wow expansion is suuuuper good

[@sinan_islam]

I believe every wow expansion is better than the one preceding it. The game keep getting more fun!

[@skurtlord]

Classic creates a quick sense of fulfillment, which releases dopamine. There's no adventure to it, noone runs through Desolace feeling immersed, it's just a negative habit.

[@baneandeddu8115]

LOVE IT

[@mclau1524]

It is objectively a great game

[@UpgradeLemonade]

A lot of this is just pure nostalgia. Its what you know and it feels like home. Also the average age of people who loved vanilla is much older now. Classic is comfortable for you,but it has a growth limit. Blizzard isnt going to sustain or grow the franchise with classic. An as someone who adored WoW and has tried nearly every mmo. Playing something i played so many times over just isnt exciting or rewarding.... especially with how many mmos and games their are to play these days. Recycling classic content is just a chore. Blizzard needs to do something more than juggling 2 versions of the game. Make a WoW2 and do something bold. Learn from classic and retail and bring everyone together for a brand new journey.

[@LiveCustoms]

Will they ever upgrade the PS2 graphics or na?

[@sucramc]

The audio was way to low

[@franzhans8249]

i agree.

[@Jay__B1990]

You need to identify yourself in the beginning of every video if you want to be remembered by the bald-man audience.

[@Kaitlin24247]

What server is this? Im on old blanchy alliance and theres quite a bit but wish more people

[@vulgrin9573]

I play on Firemaw EU currently, but if you're on US I've heard Whitemane is the way to go!

[@georgeolid2646]

Vanilla is incomparable, I don't need any expansions. Don't change it Blizzard

[@christopherozouf]

Good video

[@vulgrin9573]

Thanks :)