Why does Brahms Sound so German

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0:00 Intro
0:38 Orchestration
1:18 Rhythmic Intensity
2:13 Rhythmic Shift
3:18 This is what Brahms is about
3:33 Brahms comparison Symphony 4 first movement Chailly vs Kleiber
5:24 Chailly vs Bernstein
6:15 Fourth movement Chailly vs Bernstein
7:44 Modern-day orchestra culture

[@davedesigning]

As an arranger, composer and orchestrator, I find Brahms to be one of the greatest for a several reasons: impeccable part writing, beautiful phrasing of melodic lines, leitmotific development, rhythmic tension, spirituality, but most of all his restraint... What I mean is: He doesn't blare out trumpet melodies, and he often has trumpets only playing f, when the rest of the orchestra is playing ff. He had access to many more instruments than he actually used (such as the English horn and Bass Clarinet), but he restrains himself to the strings, brass, timpani, flutes, and shawm style instruments, which are the basis for classical orchestrational technique. His father was a hornist, who played the natural horn. (Without keys). Brahms's horn and trumpet parts can be played on the *natural* versions of the instrument. The intervals between horns and between trumpets are often very consonant, such as the 5th and octave. (this is a practice used by Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn) This makes the sound very resonant, with the partials of the lower instrument blending and adding depth to the top horn. So, Brahms's brass parts are good. His woodwind parts: He treats each pair of woodwinds as a duet, and so give consonant intervals between, for example, flute 1 and 2. This gives his woodwind parts a unique beauty. He is one of the B's: Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Bartok.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Very interesting, I haven't thought about the woodwinds and brass instruments mainly playing very consonant intervals, but yeah you're absolutely right🙌🏻 Don't forget Bruckner.😉

[@culturehorse]

..because he is a hamburger. :D

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

What?😂

[@culturehorse]

@@Carl-FriedrichWelker Brahms wuz born in Hamburg nein? Zerfor zee greatest of late classical compsoers, Brahms, wuz a Hamburger, mein herr :D

[@jessemoog5310]

My favourite Composer. But definitely not when i first started listening to classical Music. For a long time i thought he was boring, until i discovered more and more how much i liked Brahms. Brahms pieces often take several listens until you start to like them, but then you like theme more and more each listen. Brahms is often subtle and ambigous wich can make his music seem perplexing and boring at first, but the more you listen, the more you understand and discover in the Music. And his pieces are always impeccably crafted, in terms of Structure, Motivic development and so on.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

My favorite piece of him is probably his third piano sonata🙌🏻

[@jessemoog5310]

@@Carl-FriedrichWelker Oh yes, on of my favourites as well. But there are too many of his Pieces that i love to name a favourite. But i especially love his Chamber Music. The Piano Quintet, the Piano Quartets and so on are just so good. So much to discover in them everytime you listen to them. But then again i equally love his Piano Concertos, Symphonies and the Requiem.

[@johnchessant3012]

check out Richard Atkinson's analyses of Brahms symphonies if you haven't already!

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

The name rings a bell, thanks🙌🏻

[@aguiar2839]

Great video, as always.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Thank you🙌🏻

[@MagnanimousDominion]

Very interesting video. Thankyou for doing a good job of making what is, quite accurately, considered “complex music” very accessible. I really like the comparisons between the three conductors. Personally, I’m not sure if I fully understood the last things you said - if you could please clarify this point that would be great: it sounded as if you were saying that “the hierarchies are a bit more flat” in modern performances…what does this mean? I may have misunderstood, if so my apologies, but it wasn’t fully clear to me. As regards the notion that Riccardo Chailly’s approach is more what Brahms wrote, and Bernstein’s is more himself because of how long the chords are held for…I’d like to know exactly how the score instructs the conductor how long to hold a chord for? Because, from my perspective, the Chailly recording felt rushed, whilst the Bernstein one was far weightier, and to me the latter adds more drama…but there’s also an approach more in-between these two poles. One could, for instance, play less long phrases throughout, but still extend the last chord…but would that be keeping to the score? My last question: would you say it is objectively correct to state that Bernstein is ignoring the score when he plays it for longer than some other conductors? I ask because again, there must be recordings of the symphony where the final chord is held for differing lengths of time either shorter, or maybe even longer? Any answers would be appreciated. Many thanks for your great videos!

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

With flat I meant, musicians are more considered humans and let's say, have a right to express themselves in the orchestra. There is this quote from I think it was Celibidache who said if one of the musicians is not working I'm replacing him like a key on the piano, so the conductor basically (I guess, I haven't lived during that time) said how things had to be played, today musician have more free space in the orchestra but would that be keeping to the score? -> Technically no. That's a difficult question. Most musicians tend to be very strict about what is written in the score. And yes Bernstein is weightier, but Brahms doesn't have to be weighty, it needs to have depth, how you can create that, I don't know exactly. And long should you hold a chord or note, for as long as it is written in the score. for the last questions, depending on who you ask, the questions will get a different result, I personally don't think it's too bad if musicians have some free space to do there own, but a lot are very strict with what is in the score, so there is no right answer.🙌🏻

[@maxjohn6012]

I love this symphony so much. The best concert I've ever been to was Beethoven Overture from Egmont, Tchaikovsky Violin concerto, Brahms 4th 👌

[@alexzicker]

so bizarre for German music to sound so German, if it were more neutral it would surely sound very Japanese

[@cyruss6536]

Are you sure it wouldn't sound Swedish?

[@ComposedBySam]

German composers compose very “directional” and functional music in terms of harmony… adding tension and extending cadences with the help of secondary dominants and augmented 4ths (for eg German sixth) And as you pointed out, German music uses heavy counterpoint even in seemingly homophonic passages. Also German composers are very advanced and fluent in musical structure and development… So, hearing a great development section in a sonata movement or creative episodes in a fugue or rondo makes me automatically assume “German”

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

interesting

[@robertzsizsnyovski8657]

i love your Videos:)

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Haha thanks🙌🏻

[@theodentherenewed4785]

My understanding of sounding German is - devoted to form and structure. But Mozart, Haydn, Schubert, Bruckner and Mahler were all Austrians and to me, they seem to belong to the same school of thought about symphony writing. They all revolved around Vienna that could be why.

[@maxalaintwo3578]

Wagner sounds German as hell and he played VERY fast and loose with structure. Same with Mahler. I’d consider the Austrians and the Germans to be of one musical tradition, at least Mozart and Schönberg thought so

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Austria is basically Germany😂 As a german, whenever someone says, but he is austrian, well that doesn't count, they also speak german, it's the same😂

[@jessemoog5310]

@@Carl-FriedrichWelker People shouldnt forget that back in times of Mozart and even Throughout most of Brahms life, Germany didnt even exist as one Country. And Austria is and was always part of the Cultural German speaking region. So they can very much be considered of one Musical tradition.

[@Siansonea]

I've been sleeping on Brahms. Don't think I've ever heard this symphony before.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

You should check it out, it's great, but it takes a while to like it 🙌🏻

[@christophersurnname9967]

nice video

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Thanks🙌🏻

[@basedscores]

that's the reason I don't or won't love brahms, he grows and grows enormously, within a single well. Maybe I kinda liked his pc, vc or his paganini variations, or his requiem and symphony 3 and 4 (thinking this a big list, he has more 120 works i think) That's was also i always prefer beethoven to brahms

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

fair enough😂 I'm also not the greatest Brahms fan, but there are some amazing pieces

[@NicoIlViolinista]

I don't think Brahms sounds german, I think that Brahms sounds... Brahms.

[@NickiRruhland]

I dont get Brahm's Music, i prefer chopin, rachmaninoff, or tschaikowsky. My mom says that you have to listen to his stuff like 100 times and then youll love it. But i still dont get it. Could you name some brahms pieces that are more approachable in terms of listening?

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Ok then I would start with his piano sonata nr 3. First the last movement, then movement 3 then 1. The other ones I don't know that much. Then opus 79 2 Rhapsodies for piano. Maybe try the german requiem. Symphony 3 is cool. But your mom is right, Brahms takes time😂 I'm also not the greatest Brahms fan

[@stevenzhang4761]

Piano quintet!!!!!

[@basedscores]

Also if you chose to listen brahms seriously, try his symphony 4 especially kleiber's interpretation, it's one of most amazing thing I've heard from brahms but caution don't get tired on 1st mvt, as 1st motif repeats and repeats throughout the movement, if you surpassed those you won, and try his pc1 first then pc2

[@davedesigning]

Most accessible in order: Hungarian Dances. Wiegenlied. Academic Festival Overture. Brahms's Variations on a Theme by Haydn. Violin Concerto Last movement. Piano Concerto 2, first movement. Symphony #3, third movement. 16 Waltzes Op 39. Tragic Overture. Intermezzo Op. 118, no 2. Variations on a Theme by Paganini. Rhapsody Op. 79 no. 2. (no. 1 is good also).

[@davedesigning]

While not as popular, his Serenade No. 1 is a bit more accessible, because they are made using the dance forms like the gavotte and minuet. (However, it is optimal to have some familiarity with those forms.) My personal favorites: String Quartet #1. Symphony 3. There's stuff I'm missing, but these are many of the highlights.

[@AlexToussiehChannel]

It's kind of sad that the same country that produced so many wonderful things is the one that did the worst thing human beings have been capable of...

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Agreed😂 but most other countries also fucked up very hard, the germans were just the last ones who did it big time, so everyone remembers

[@josephpearson2230]

Please speak more slowly. I love your analysis. But it’s spoken too fast.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

Ok, thanks for the advice🙌🏻

[@LearnCompositionOnline]

Because he is heavy, plays safe, plans a lot, find that the only alternative to survive is to be better than the previous composer, and sometimes overcomplicate.

[@AlexxAmadeo]

Why on Earth did you decide to mention the Nazis in a video about Brahms? You probably wanted to be funny, but this type of humor is just as flat as the Polish lands that Germany once tried to conquer.

[@Carl-FriedrichWelker]

I get your point, although I don't think I have done something wrong. It is and was part of germanys history, the part thankfully most germans are not proud of. Still, I think I needed to mention it because of its characteristic march music and therefore its traditional german sound, that I also think Brahms has.

[@brooklyngiang6720]

so ironic since he's not even german

[@prof.alexsandroalves4723]

Qual a nacionalidade de Brahms?