Why Does Quilt Exist? || The Lore Behind Modded Minecraft Part 3

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Thumbnail by: @gutermaniac
Edited by: Lunar
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=Summary=-
In the beginning of its history, Minecraft had Forge, the one big modloader. Now we have Forge, Neoforged, Fabric and its fork Quilt, how did this happen? Where did it go wrong? Who ate my sandwich? Lets dive into this first part of the history of Modded minecraft together!
#forge #minecraft #moddedminecraft
=Credit&Sources=
Mixins Documentation:
github.com/SpongePowered/Mixi...
Dowload Quilt here:
quiltmc.org/en/
Quilt History:
quiltmc.org/en/about/timeline/
Quilt Announcement:
quiltmc.org/en/blog/2021-04-1...
Thread on FabricMC's Discord (Was deleted):
web.archive.org/web/202009160...
sfPlayer1's Alleging stolen code:
/ simply_jetpacks_is_no_...
Footage by ItsDrowned
/ itsdrowned
Music provided by Infraction No Copyright Music
Spotify: spoti.fi/3DzsedZ
If You've Read This Far Comment Pebble :)

[@gwenmcgarry528]

I think I know what the solution is here, we need to make a NEW mod-loader that's better than either fabric or quilt. There are absolutely ZERO problems with this idea

[@ninjarunner]

insert xkcd standards comic here

[@user-wc2gl4xt3f]

Quilt loader has an awesome feature that allows you to create subfolders in /mods folder for different versions. For example, mods in /mods/1.19.4 will be loaded only when 1.19.4 version starts up. Sounds like a small feature, but it is INSANELY convenient for me, and actually the main reason why i use it. There was some mod for older versions that did the same, but it seems abandoned, unfortunately

[@lexy4037]

this kinda sold me on quilt ngl

[@aleks-ivanov]

This feature exists in Fabric too, by the way

[@superangrybrit]

> goes from Fabric to Rust Everything will be consumed by Rustlang eventually. 😲

[@SamuraiDestroy]

Rust's logo is a crab because it's the coding equivalent of carcinisation.

[@superangrybrit]

@@CuteistFox4 minutes

[@xymaryai8283]

i am very excited for it, though i am still conflicted by the loss of OOP for userspace development, ECS is confusing

[@scarm_rune]

ew

[@Wither_Strike]

I think we need to go back to the OG modloader, manually editing random files with winrar or 7zip or some other equivalent program

[@happygofishing]

manual modding is a disaster 💀

[@Cygnus_MC]

Jarmodding my beloved

[@maxthexpfarmer3957]

or mojang makes datapacks better

[@bldymna]

@@maxthexpfarmer3957 Like that's ever gonna happen

[@bomba76]

@@bldymnait’s getting better, slowly. Very slowly

[@tehbeard]

For "vanilla" I've been playing with a few QoL improvements. ItemSwapper is now a must have for me, it makes managing the hotbar much nicer when tending to farms or building. I also found a tiny (one class file) mod that stops you from breaking budding amethyst. I've also been playing with some "Level of Detail" mods to crank up the perceived render distance. Distant Horizons really didn't seem to like papermc servers, often mashing several dimensions worth of data into one ugly mess. Finding "Bobby" (yes, that's its name...) to be much better.

[@paulbrancieq5614]

DH now can handle multiple dimensions ;)

[@Nasrul260]

This series has taught me that, no matter what minecraft mod you use, or what modloader you use for said minecraft mod. There's always a lot of terrible & horrible things happening behind close doors. And I find that kind of horrifying.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Tell me about it

[@Nasrul260]

@@Cygnus_MC yep, but hey. At least we got some cool mods out of the four mod loaders. Which is pretty cool 😎

[@niceEli]

Honstly there should be built in support for mods

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@niceEli datapacks?

[@jason13gaming]

@@Cygnus_MCdo a video on datapacks as a “mod loader” 😂

[@luna010]

As a person coming from this more from the perspective of a developer than a modded minecraft player, the hostility towards devs for forking fabric and making technical improvements is feels ridiculous to me. Even if you think transphobia is based and epic, the responsibility for the splintering of Quilt from fabric falls on Player, not those who split off. When you ban people for vocally sharing dissenting opinions, don’t expect not to lose a few community members. reminder: These are independently acting volunteers, not employees.

[@eeguy77]

The "dissenting opinion" also loses community members. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it should be respected, especially when the opinion is highly disrespectful towards others.

[@blessingbear92account35]

Frankly the fact that one of quilts major reasons for existing is a drama and from the looks of it something that a little communication and understanding would have solved and avoided blowing it out publicly in the way it did it just makes it feel like quilt is a spite project, and yeah as you say they can have talented developers on the project but it still doesn't shake that feeling, plus the fact fabric mods run on quilt adds more to the feeling of a spite project just wish the minecraft community could put on some pants and try to build bridges for compatibility as the coolest part about modding isn't just the separate mods, but the great ways you can combine mods to turn the game into quite literally any other game, plus am playing a lot of a modpack i made on forge which centers around the fnaf mod to amplify the mod and make several towns around the mods locations

[@tux_the_astronaut]

Fr this modloader rly has no reason to exist all it does is further fragment the mod space

[@rabbiyosef6127]

@@tux_the_astronaut Yeah but troons love to create drama and sow division

[@torimato]

The crucial question is communication on who's end? From what this video describes, it sounds like the developers arguing for pro-trans positions trying to communicate but were banned as a result. At that point there's not much of a way to communicate, is there?

[@raptorbr_]

I just use Quilt because it runs a bit better on my PC and because the Quilt loading screen mod looks better than the default one. Didn't even know there was a bunch of drama related to it lol

[@dergrinch1063]

Making my own mod in mcreator for a year now xD Maybe you can dive into mcreators history too

[@Cygnus_MC]

Not a bad shout

[@meapollon9085]

Jeez, I feel kinda addicted to this series, good work, keep it up ❤

[@Cygnus_MC]

Glad to see my insane rambelings are entertaining (

[@user-pv8yj7mg2o]

Thank you so much for this series! Mod-loader lore is my new favorite KZbin content 🍿

[@StickmanCorp]

The "Dependency Downloading" promise of Quilt is something I never heard of, but doubt it will ever happen. On a technical level, too much of this depends on the mod developpers, and little on the mod-loader itself. In order to download a dependency, Quilt would need either of two things: - Require mod developpers to include in their mod, the download url for their dependencies, which could break any time if one of the dependency is taken down by its owner. Moreover, this would be a very concerning security risk if this allows the modlader to download and run _anything_ from _any url_ without prompting the user. - Require all dependencies to be hosted on a centralized platform, so that a mod can be identified by name only. This would mean no dependency support from Modrinth or Curseforge, and so would require all mod developpers to upload their works there. If Quilt was the pionneer of minecraft modding, that second solution would be conceivable, but in the fractured ecosystem that you describe, I doubt we'll see that happen for most existing mod, even those that are still being maintained. There's definitely a reason that mod downloading today is a feature on _launchers_ rather than the the modloaders themselves. (And as someone who still prefers downloading and installing my mods by hand, I have little interest in such a feature anyways.)

[@lukea1533]

Option A could be fixed via checksums such as md5 or other file modification checks. If the dependency downloaded does not match the hash given by the dependent mod, it throws an error and refuses to work. You could also have multiple mirrored sites, and if one goes down, it tries the other. This puts the power into the mod requesting the download. Any malicious actors would have to be really high up the chain.

[@StickmanCorp]

@@lukea1533 That would help with the security, but even then, the task of providing the correct checksum still befalls onto the mod creator, and things cannot work without their cooperation. That's not necessarily an issue that will prevent its implementation, but this constraint can still prevent the feature from being worthwhile.

[@bonkerbonk343]

Given that ATlauncher already detects and downloads dependencies with most if not all mods on both modrinth and curse it is most definitely possible

[@StickmanCorp]

@@bonkerbonk343 When ATlauncher does that, does it work with mods that were manually inserted into the mod folder ? Or does it only work with mods that were _installed using ATLauncher_ ?

[@Tsudico]

It seems to me that it would be much easier if they instead made it so that you could download server mod dependencies. I think it would be a simple matter because the server already could have all the files on hand that the client would need and if the server is running it would also have any dependencies the mods themselves required.

[@FirstMegaGame4]

Great video, making a good summary of The Quilt Project

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thanks

[@lolglolblol]

I use Quilt for my Create-based modded world. The only real reason I use it is that Effective is only on Quilt, and I like the Glowsquid effect that mod adds

[@Cygnus_MC]

Fair

[@none4356]

Random mod spotlight. Coyote Time. Literally can't play newer versions without it. Makes modern minecraft feel much more responsive.

[@danielrhouck]

Somehow I haven't known about the drama, just that it runs most Fabric mods, but some mods I like are Quilt-only, some are not only compatible with Fabric, and also QFAPI/QSL is several Minecraft versions behind.

[@Furin_]

Loved the video but I feel that part 2 is missing, the one about Fabric

[@Cygnus_MC]

It is, its beeing remade

[@astronemir]

Wait why

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@astronemir there where some inaccuracies i felt needed to be fixed

[@soninhodev7851]

Ah ok, so quilt is just fabric, but with a slightly more robust API? alright seems to check out, i really dont care about drama, i only care about playing my favourite mods, which coincidently are all in forge. Speaking of, im currently playing Create: above and beyond, if you are interested...

[@Cygnus_MC]

Bro i fucking love create!!!!

[@isaacohamsto4472]

I'm finishing Create: Above & Beyond right now (i just built the rocket) and it's the best modpack i've ever seen. Couldn't expect less from the Create team.

[@mosemister]

He is in my walls????? Destroy the walls!!!!

[@Cygnus_MC]

U cant destroy me

[@darkromano_]

Another topic that would be interesting, would be the problem that IC2 making a mod called Industrial Upgrade stop its development, a very stupid thing as it is an addon for IC2 that they didn’t allow it for 1.7.10, even tho Advanced solar panels and other mods are able to develop in a very similar way.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Noted

[@frozytime1510]

Very well-explained video! I don't think I have ever left a comment on a KZbin video that isn't regarding any of my projects. I appreciate your effort in clearing up the vast space of the Minecraft modding scene and its history. As for the mods I've been playing, tons of tech mods and testing my own project Infinity Cave and its interactions with other mods.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thanks for the kind words! And dude ive played infinity caves not that long ago. Good stuff

[@frozytime1510]

@@Cygnus_MC OH WHAT? Wow, I have no words, world is small

[@JuxGD]

initially i used quilt because "oh cool a fabric fork with extra features" never knew about the rest of the story

[@rohbust56]

just getting into this series, really interesting and entertaining, can't wait to see a history on neoforge, if you make a vid about that

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thats comming out tomorrow!

[@4nyNoob]

and this was the time that i've decided to start learning modding, oh my thought that fabric was the cool kid around the block, but quilt is there, looking at me

[@hudsonator7259]

I feel the biggest thing for most people is the dependencies, but if you use a more mod focused launcher like prism or even curseforge or the newer modrinth one the launcher will usually download the dependence itself so the functionality in quilt will rarely be used

[@BENCRUSH7]

what happened to part 2 of this series?

[@gmelhortablet]

I like to use Quilt when i'm playing just regular survival, Most fabric mods I use work there and also gives a tiny lil performance boost for my dying laptop. Don't really care about the drama because I have no real reason to, I'm not even involved in it, why care? oh and i'm currently playing Botania: Garden of Glass, cool skyblock

[@HeyJinx]

I don't think Player's intentions were transphobic but he definitely mishandled the situation. He just needs to let someone else moderate for him, take that weight off his shoulders

[@Cygnus_MC]

As i said i personally like someone beeing direcht. But i agree

[@astronemir]

Nah everyone just need to fuck off and stop trying to see the worst in people and getting offended over things like discord unbans in a Minecraft mod loader. People are busy. If you wants parents and teachers go back to school and let the adults deal with getting shit done we care about. The only mistake was even having a banning unbanning discussion or even allowing it.

[@profjb58]

Definitely did yah research here this was really good :)

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thanks!! :3

[@profjb58]

Some more lore if ur interested :3 - Recently (a few months ago) the main team behind quilt kinda stepped down and stopped some of the more ambitious projects they where planning entirely such as CHASM which was set to replace Mixins. Supposedly they are still open to anyone taking it up but realistically they're dead because no one understands it lol. - Quilts Fabric API has been stuck limbo for months now on 1.20.1. It might get an update soon but it's definitely halted almost entirely. - I think a lot of those from Fabric where surprised how strict the Quilt Moderators where and I do agree. There where reasons behind it including a massive push for a system of governance that didn't rely on one specific person holding all the power (u can see why haha). That leadership has completely gone now but with it so did a lot of the lead members. - Quilt actually tried to apply for company status in I think France somewhere and had a proper legal team for it. I think they forgot or borked a piece of documentation though that would have let it happen.

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@profjb58 im pretty sure they just released their api update a few days ago! As for the company thing, lmao

[@profjb58]

@@Cygnus_MC Oh yes they did thank u. I've been making a 1.20.1 Quilt modpack for months now and ran into outdated API issues hence the frustration haha. Tbh if Quilt continues to stay updated at a reasonable rate and support Fabric Quilt isn't a bad option for modpack makers but for mod devs it's a no go.

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@profjb58 what modpack are u working on if i can ask?

[@s7ppy]

Quilt feels like the Linux of the modloader world. Not many people use it, leading to not many people making stuff for it, leading to not many people using it. Quilt sounds cool, but as it stands i just have no reason to use it as im just gonna end up causing myself more issues if a mod i want doesnt work properly (usually does, but occasionally a fabric mod won't work properly, granted this is pretty uncommon). If things end up changing then i'll switch over to it, same way im probably gonna switch to neoforge for my forge endeavours.

[@auralluring]

comparing it to linux actually makes it sound more appealing to me lol. sure the average person doesn’t really know or care about anything linux-related. but underneath that is a thriving community and network of open-source projects, and it makes me feel at home. 🙂

[@s7ppy]

​fair enough I suppose. I like Linux quite a bit myself and daily drove a variety of distros over the course of a couple years. I only stopped about a year ago because I got completely fed up dealing with the fact I have a Nvidia GPU which makes things 10x more annoying. Not to mention I unfortunately require photoshop for some of the work I do now, as well as needing the ability to build UE5 projects for windows. Also the state of VR on Linux was the nail in the coffin as I spend a lot of my free time in VR.

[@s7ppy]

@@pugdev4 i dip in and keep an eye on stuff over time. Funnily enough i'm sending this reply on linux rn on a different device. Overall it's still not enough for me to ditch windows though, and there's little to no reason to dual boot when i could just, have an os that does everything i need it to (windows) and use the rest of the space for storage. I pretty much only use linux on my Steam Deck, one of my old laptops, and an arch installation on a portable ssd. My main pc where i do most of my work and stuff though is still windows and will likely stay that way for the forseeable future

[@astronemir]

Linux is the most widely used OS.

[@malekahmed7960]

Aight, here's my list of mods. I got three versions I'm playing on rn. 1.12.2, where I'm building a creative mode dinosaur park (Prehistoric Nature, Fossils and Archaeology, ZAWA, Effortless Building, some QoL mods) 1.16.5 a regular modern zoo with maybe a few dinosaurs here and there but mostly display fossils (ZAWA: Evolved, Alex's Mobs, Prehistoric Fauna, Chipped) 1.18.2 survival light modpack (Ice and Fire, Isle of Berk, Alex's Mobs, Quark, Supplementaries, Farmers Delight, some QoL mods) All of these can be creative or survival obviously.

[@Extingale]

I don't get the auto-download dependency thing. Most modders all use a launcher (curseforge or modrinth), and last I checked all of them already automatically download dependencies.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Not necessarily, multimc, prism etc doesnt

[@samuelhulme8347]

The normal (Vanilla) doesn’t.

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@samuelhulme8347 thats cuz it doesnt need any dependencies?

[@samuelhulme8347]

@@Cygnus_MC The launchers don’t need dependencies, but the mods you are playing with might do. The vanilla launcher does not download mod dependencies for you.

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@samuelhulme8347 i- yeah thats kinda what we mean when we say "downloading dependencies"?

[@Daniel_VolumeDown]

1:35 You are talking about some Mixins that were supposed to be deleted, but you didn't explained what it is or why it were good or bad and why would people want to have it deleted. Then you never mention them later so I am confused what yhat part was meant to say and why Mixins stayed in fabric or do these things are still in Quilt. Second thing is that I still don't know what is this technical aspect in quilt that makes it better than fabric. And their official website do not explain it good either which is my biggest problem. I still don't know what are the benefits of quilt. Btw. this automatic downloading of dependencies might be great but at the same time I am not sure about the security of this. But maybe they will implement it with caution and it will be great. But if that will be only defining factor then it probably should be just added to fabric. And considering the fact that these are open source projects then fabric can just take code from quilt in future and have this functionality it they will want to.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Hi there! The reason i neglected to explain mixins in greater details is because i covered that in my video about Fabric. (altho that one is getting remade is there where some mistakes) However that is indeed a flaw with the format i was going for! And as outlined throughout the video, Quilt is more user and develop friendly and has a more powerfull library, but to be frank there are not a lot of benefits about quilt as a whole. Fabric already benefits from some backports that the Quilt team did iirc, however the dependency downloading seems like a story for a long time from now

[@Daniel_VolumeDown]

@@Cygnus_MC thanks for response. Waiting for updated vidio about fabric then. I focused on parts that were unclear to me but it is great video overall, I wouldn't even know about neoforge if not your videos

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@Daniel_VolumeDown totally reasonable! Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it!

[@doctaterror]

Since you literally asked, I'm trying to get a small modpack uploaded to modrinth lol

[@Cygnus_MC]

Same, ive been waiting for the last 3 days

[@_3XP]

W loader

[@Useott]

I played using Quilt, but I have been temporarily on Fabric while I wait for the Quilt Standard Libraries/Quilted Fabric API to update to the latest version (it's currently still on 1.19.4), but when it finally updates to 1.20.4 (or .5 when it releases) you bet I'm coming back to it

[@Toksyuryel]

I dunno I don't think automatically downloading dependencies is something that belongs in the modloader. That's a job for the launcher imo.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thats fair, tho its still cool

[@plushyneko]

As a hardcore fabric user, quilt doesn't really change much on my computer. The claims about it being quicker/optimized etc don't really show anything significant enough for me to notice it. Forge always felt clunky to use, and fabric was the best there is for me. I did however prefer quilt over fabric in the 1.19.x arc mainly due to what i'll call the most acceptable compatibility for fabric mods due to QFAPI. Honestly, fabric with a modpack like Fabulously Optimized/Remarkably Optimized is ideal for a base to build anyone's custom modlist upon.

[@sacripan4425]

Need to make a modpack with quilt, but all my favorite mods are on forge💀

[@amosbirb2616]

Currently testing a mod I've been working on for 2 years. You can use a warhammer and fly around like Thor

[@Cygnus_MC]

I hear warhammer?

[@amosbirb2616]

@@Cygnus_MC Yes! Funnily enough prior to Mojang's implementation

[@minecraftexpertstudios7368]

I'm mostly doing modpacks revolving around Create and Cracker's wither Storm

[@minecraftexpertstudios7368]

My hope is to find a pack that combines the two, but no such luck so far.

[@Hermet-]

i love this chanel

[@Cygnus_MC]

This channel loves you

[@collingibboney5319]

Can you do a video series about create and all of the different addons

[@ShadowWolf2023-yp5zg]

I don't care about the drama as long as the drama leaves me out of it's pettiness.

[@ShadowWolf2023-yp5zg]

If you can't handle an opinion get off the internet. It is not for you sensitive Sally's.

[@nicholasbrooks7349]

I like leaning about modding for Minecraft. Minecraft modding inspired me to start making my own game, and actually do a modding api. I'd be tempted when I'm done with my game to make a modding (api?) for Minecraft with groovy like my game. I really enjoy programming in java and groovy.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Arent groovy and java very similar?

[@nicholasbrooks7349]

​@@Cygnus_MC Sorta of it's dynamical Java. However I think it's a bit more beginner than java since it's more like Python. But it's so much easier than the nightmare of me trying lua4j or jruby for modding.

[@Mabra51]

Are the background footage using vanilla resource pack ? The side texture of the grass block doesn't look vanilla.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Should be vanilla

[@Mabra51]

@@Cygnus_MC The part where the grass and dirt meet looks darker than vanilla, like more shadowy.

[@gmelhortablet]

​@@Mabra51prolly just smooth lighting/shadows

[@avuwep]

This reminds me of the controversy around RaysWorks in the TMC community

[@RaziMemeGod]

All I gotta say is they are NOT fast with updates. They just recently made Quilted Fabric API for 1.20.4

[@Cygnus_MC]

Yep, they're not

[@dgs3]

I’m late but still W VIDEOOOOO KEEP IT UP

[@Starlit_Juno]

1:33 Let Down (Underrated)

[@Agent_Phoenix_Animations]

That's why I avoid internet drama. I am personally neutral on those things. I enjoyed you video. Have a nice day and btw. Check out the new mod named Vic Point Blank.

[@interstellar_1]

Where did part 2 go?

[@bioscar4998]

I'll say it now because I know other people may have the same opinion; I don't care- Not in a bad way, I just mean that I don't care about the drama or the bad issues with the loaders. I will switch to NeoForge if things go well for them and it out-updates Forge. Otherwise? I'll use Forge because I just want to play the game, I don't care about the drama- Plus I myself am making a 1.19.2 Forge Mod about Discs, and I don't want the stress of dealing with multiple modloaders. Sticking to one for now is easy. TL;DR is I don't care about drama, I'm just vibin with what I enjoy, Minecraft.

[@Cygnus_MC]

My type of guy

[@athormaximoff4634]

Dropping a mix tape in 2024 be like:

[@forest_895]

Same

[@bioscar4998]

@@Cygnus_MC Thank you! I swear these days the community likes to take sides meanwhile I'm here like "Yo I like the game bc it allows my dumbass to actually be myself lol-" o7 respect to you man

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@bioscar4998 and to you for not blindly following the curve! Stay groovy

[@darksonic3005]

Very interesting. I myself am pretty new to the modding community, joining around a year ago. I learned much of Forge and now NeoForge but never really dig into the Fabric/Quilt interactions and history. I knew of the technical advancements Quilt is trying to make but not really about its social aspect. Still, while Quilt may sound promising the social side is what holds back a lot of it in some way as you also explained in the video, and even without counting that in, I feel like Quilt won't surely get the recognition Forge and Fabric had over the years. This is just my personal opinion and not meant spread any hate towards the devs, but I just feel like Quilt is the left out kid who has great ideas but then just kinda fades away

[@Cygnus_MC]

At the end of the day, you need to develop what you want, on whatever platform you want to

[@Octal_Covers]

Hey! I'm Octal. I used to be a developer and moderator / community team for QuiltMC, but I recently left. I'd be willing to do an interview if you're down for it

[@Nord_Act]

I ate your sandwich for being too quiet /j But actually, you're sounding much quieter in compare to prev videos. Hope you're doing good And my personal thanks for listing sources and bringing up those usually unspoken details on that drama. Now I finally can stitch together all of those pieces and finally see what Quilt exactly is

[@Cygnus_MC]

Nooo my sandwich! And hey thanks for asking, ive been through a lot behind the scenes both personal setbacks and the fact my previous video was universally seen as misinformed. However im glad to see my extra attention to detail was what you wanted to see!

[@johnm9263]

The moment political issues Including xyz-phobias That exist AT ALL You have to REALLY question EVERYTHING surrounding the topic at hand

[@Cygnus_MC]

Good thing thats not what quilt is about

[@johnm9263]

@@Cygnus_MC if that's not sarcasm, you really need to look again, especially at your own videos Its not about what they SAY, but what they have DONE

[@johnm9263]

@@Cygnus_MC accusations usually only Get deleted for one of three reasons 1. Legal, because they are inflammatory and usually false 2. They were false and didn't want backlash once people looked at it closely enough 3. Theres an apology Two of those are not great for quilt to say the least, and the third simply hasn't happened yet I say this because there is no reason to delete such an inflammatory comment if its true, given the forum it was posted on

[@mineland8220]

Quilt seems promising, and there are some mods that are really nice exclusive to it, like okzoomer or inspecio which i use, and there are also other fabric mods which completely break when trying to load them on quilt because of that technical side of the loader (i had a packet related mod break specifically because of quilt, but i forgot about which one it was). If it runs well, then its cool. Drama is a pain, but their community has been nice from what I've experienced. I dont get the people throwing hate at them, but they be them.

[@megusmith6258]

I hate "Fabric mod can run on Quilt" excuse. Yes maybe a little bit. but i use a lot of mod. Quilt like to freak out when there's a lot of Fabric Mod. Not all Modder have thier mod port for Quilt. not just that, Most average mod user already stuggle dragging classic mods and modpacks to run on Fabric. Don't even talk about running those Optifine resource pack on Fabric. Massive headache now take all of that and put it into Quilt loader pipe line. this is why most modded player will not move to Quilt until 1.Quilt full release 2.More mainstream mod on Quilt 3.Quilt not freaking out when seeing Modpacks

[@soupborsh6002]

Why some developers of FOSS are arguing with each other. It is common in Android modding.

[@jess648]

the initial community reasoning for the loaders exist feels real petty

[@BrainChili]

i agree with the social part of quilt (having a better and more welcoming community to help people develop mods) but i dont really like the technial part. i feel very stongly that software should be as interoperable and backwards compatible as possible and quilt seems to do breaking changes pretty often. one thing about quilt that i wish fabric had is a default config library. having 10 differnt config libraries in a modpack most of which are bloated with features that arent used seems not great.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Fair points ngl

[@noelka8134]

Honestly, the fact that a project can be transfobic or something like that is just hillarious for me. People who make it indeed can be transfobic, but how on the god's green earth it makes the project itself worse?

[@Cygnus_MC]

Its usually the people not the project indeed

[@yass0420]

saying the project isnt transphobic doesnt justify the action of the author. just cuz you dont feel like its a dealbreaker doesnt mean other ppl cant feel it

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@yass0420 yes thats fair, never said you couldn't see it as a deal breaker.

[@ShadowWolf2023-yp5zg]

It doesn't and it is a person's opinion if those people can't handle an opinion then they need to get off the internet.

[@uis246]

8:15 is he saying he is taking down his own mod because someone from IC2 team PMed him?

[@Cygnus_MC]

No Player wanted to outright sue him

[@lessgenericname]

wtf is woven also i'm playing enigmatic 2 expert thanks for asking

[@Cygnus_MC]

Have fun!

[@Romanian901]

where is part 2?

[@Cygnus_MC]

Hey! Part 2 is currently beeing remade

[@leyrxplays371]

what happened to part 2

[@Cygnus_MC]

Rewriting it with some people who where part of fabric, got some major parts wrong

[@leyrxplays371]

@@Cygnus_MC Okay.

[@happinson]

the technical aspect i can very much understand even though i have my doubts that it will ever get much traction because fabric already was that big technical leap so even if it's gonna be the objectively better modloader in some aspects it's not gonna be enough for a wide adaption. the "social" aspect of quilt is just comically laughable. i don't even mind the fact that the project was (partially) made because of concerns about transphobia. but to then make a project where toxicity is completely acceptable as long as it's not against minorities is just crazy. (they don't even hide it) quilt absolutely deserves it's bad reputation.

[@OtesOtesOtes]

to break LamdaBetterGrass

[@Cyclone3603]

First person model, camera overhaul, do a barrel roll, and not enough animations, make the game so much more immersive. can recommend.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Noted

[@Cyclone3603]

@@Cygnus_MC ayy you replied!

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@Cyclone3603 i try to always reply

[@8ob333]

Best way to turn a short to a thirteen minute video. :)

[@Cygnus_MC]

Thanks? If i wanted to make it a short i wouldnt gone in so much details, but i did give me a good idea

[@relt_]

he banned the unbannable

[@ran631]

I miss when it was just forge and i didnt even know how mods worked or anything, i just saw something cool and installed it, and used it. I didnt care about performance or community or ways to code or transphobes (didnt even know what that was). Now for mods you need to be a rocket scientist.

[@seannewell397]

I think it's good to think of modders as neighbors and a community. One easier to digest example is curseforge -> modrinth migration and how modrinth's payout model is far better. In that way, of course I'd want to support my neighbors/modders more! They make awesome stuff! It does gut muddier when the modding community itself is split, but mods are never made in a vacuum.

[@Dviih]

As long as I can play modded I don’t care it seems really stupid that “war”

[@Cygnus_MC]

What war?

[@IBMboy]

So in summary Quilt is just a trans-drama fork of Fabric 👍

[@Cygnus_MC]

No thats not what that is, thats Woven.

[@a_d_z_y__]

The Dynamic Trees mod is awesome. Their devs have adopted a "no fabric" policy, and I don't really know why. But it would be the perfect mod in my dream modpack, which would be focused on adding dynamic elements to vanilla's mostly fixed and immutable Minecraft landscapes. Only the player can modify the land, and I think it's really lacking some "power of nature" vibes to the game overall.

[@startjim123456]

I hate the saying fabric mods workcon quilt but for about 10 times i try using quilt and put on some fabric mods and its not working 90% of the time neoforge is doing a better job and i know forge is slow but neoforge devs are doing great work with i feel like its on par with fabric now so i just use fabric or neoforge now quilt does it work? Maybe most the time no it does not

[@Cygnus_MC]

Neoforged as it stands now isnt really far ahead, especially on 1.20.1. I'd not use it untill 1.21 at the very least

[@startjim123456]

@@Cygnus_MC forge is gone die anyways with the way lex is going and hes just gone burn him self out not good for a person but neoforge allready boots way faster compared to forge (i do not care about the drama as i have seen why people hate lex on the point of fabric and quilt i have seen 0 drama and im pretty sure from what people say that most of them over react) i do not like that there is an other modloader again i hate it but if quilt can be as good as fabric is or neoforge good but its more pain on modders again and lets not forget about all the github issue posts they have to deal with seen it way to many times people who have no idea what there looking at installing a mod for forge on fabric or an 1.16.5 mod on 1.19.2 or the other way around some modders have also just stopped looking at github issue i have no idea on how to code anything but i know how hard it is and trowing in more modloaders is not gone help wen not all mods switch over to the new loader or it stays 50 : 50 split but im going of track here keep making videos my dude

[@DianaGee]

i don’t really see any reason for myself to use fabric over quilt, every fabric mod i use works perfectly fine on quilt and quilt also has some great exclusive mods so it just seems better to me

[@Cygnus_MC]

Im somewhat in the same boat

[@EpicTyphlosionTV]

Honestly, the whole reason behind Quilt's creation feels really petty. Did the Fabric mod team mishandle the situation? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, it was just one guy on their discord saying something people didn't like. While I personally don't agree with what the person in question said, I don't think their decision to unban them makes the whole Fabric team "transphobic." Same goes for if they never banned them in the first place.

[@SupersuMC]

I don't play any mods.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Odd that ur watching modded content then. But you do you buddy

[@ignCaisem]

hiii

[@Cygnus_MC]

Hello

[@kittech_]

why it isnt 5 seconds long

[@danb3480]

🗿

[@Cygnus_MC]

Lol

[@wintrywind]

yeah, where is my subway surfer and minecraft parkour jump video on the left side. /s

[@chaseiscekcy]

It basically sounds like quilt doesn’t need to exist, I’m with the community here with the “one modloader☭” mindset

[@EvelineFlowercrown]

An upgrade to fabric made by one of the girls? Sign me up! 🏳️‍⚧️💖

[@Cygnus_MC]

Slayyy

[@grinchwhostoleminecraft]

For me I am still on 1.12.2 playing modded forge Minecraft Ignoring the vanilla updates lol

[@xanderplayz3446]

I wish that there was a modern forge-compatible modloader for 1.12.2. Like Neoforge, but for 1.12.2.

[@gmelhortablet]

ur not missing out on much lol

[@CERISTHEDEV]

Dude to me there seems to be something that i kinda dont see people talking about with the 3 mod loaders Like forge seems way heavier but fabric and quilt seems very buggy Like forge is a metal beam its heavier but it works better as a foundation Fabric is a string it breaks a lot faster but in lighter stuff it works reall well And quilt is a rainbow string for outsiders there is basically no diference to its technical aspects but it you look cool by using it The point im trying to say is if i install more than 8 mods on either fabric or quilt i have to take 30 minutes of debugging but if i do this on forge mainly in 1.12 it just works Like to me the whole seeling point for fabric is sodium but wtf do i do if there is fabric mods that arent compatible with sodium (this happend before) like in forge i can just switch between rubidium magnesium and optifine generally one of them works

[@Cygnus_MC]

Hmm id have to investigate that, i havnt run into that issue yet

[@gwenmcgarry528]

Idk, I've found that fabric is more stable than forge with all my testing

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@gwenmcgarry528 im actually testing Performance between forge and fabric so ill add stability testing to it

[@blessingbear92account35]

Think the op is talking about how forge seems to be generally better for much more large scale modding experiences and fabric is better for experimental / smaller scale / performance stuff as while it can do some large mods, like cobblemon and create, fabric has more compatibility issues present on average @@gwenmcgarry528

[@V972]

You nailed it with the comparison part.

[@TheFaithfulVegan]

Stupid drama; good for modding. Also, Effective is on quilt; so it's objectively the best

[@Sugmatron]

You say it has technical benefits over Fabric, but never supported that claim. And then you finalize by saying that *if* it implements its planned features it will be a step forward for fabric. You claim that it has a reason to exist outside of drama, but all your supporting evidence is on the side of drama.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Yes, the planned features beeing the downloading of dependcies, it already has that powerfull library, And not to forget this project did not start out drama, but its still around because of it.

[@Sugmatron]

@@Cygnus_MC I would have liked to see an explanation, even if short, of the enhancements to the library and API in the video. I don't disagree that it has a reason to exist outside of drama, I just don't know, and a case wasn't really made for it. Still great content, just a point on framing. Keep it up.

[@StenIsaksson]

@@Cygnus_MC How does the powerful library effect me as a player? Most of the improvements seem to be for developers, not for me as a player If I can't see any improvements, then why use it?

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@StenIsaksson honestly thats a very valid take, theoretically developers can utilize those libraries to make bigger mods, but as of right now that has not happened

[@terabitdefiance8022]

So in short.. someone ends up having a power trip. Its always a power trip. Just make the best mod loader the worlds ever seen. yours doesn't auto grab dependencies? make it happen as much as you can on your terms. Doesn't auto update? Make it as happen as much as you can. A mod loaders team is in their position to make a great mod loader. Nothing else. Thats it. Quit affiliating your intrusive thoughts and opinions into what could better MC.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Well the problem now is that it doesnt do those things fully yet, but it does seem like its going on a good route

[@happygofishing]

Temper tantrum developers. Probably will be a dead project in a year or two. long live fabric.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Well it didn't start out like that

[@_Rad6]

It already is kind of dead, they released Quilt Standard Libraries (their fork of Fabric API) for 1.20.2 a few days ago, while Fabric API has been available for that version since like September. There's also no 1.20.4 support as of yet.

[@happygofishing]

@@_Rad6 💀

[@Drew19822002]

Can we just say it now? Too many devs in the same kitchen, and no main leader. This is why when it comes to any companies there will always be one person who will always make the final decision so everything can keep moving forward. If you don't have a leader at some point you will be stuck in limbo.

[@Cygnus_MC]

Hmm to a degree i agree, but these projects also had leaders. These leaders just made mistakes that caused others to splinter off

[@Drew19822002]

@@Cygnus_MC If they had leaders in there Projects, and things ended this way. Then they really didn't have real leaders. I mean one of the main jobs a leader has to do is keep there team working together, and stay on track, and hearing all the information you have spent hours digging through it sounds like there was really no team, and no one wanted to say hey we are going to sit in this room until we can all agree this is the best path we should go. Everything sounds like a full room of devs, and ideas, but no one willing to step up. Just because I am called leader does not make me a real leader. I have to have that leader mentality, That passion, That ability to think about others, and not my self. Minecraft is a community after all.

[@Cygnus_MC]

@@Drew19822002 so in the case of Forge, they had Lex who pretty much was a offical leader under Forge LLC. But he was such an ass towards regulars and made some weird decisions causing fabric to be made, wich used a "council" where 5 people would discuss and vote, this eventually broke down in just Modmuss and Player having the de-facto say. In quilts case, there is no real leader, in that you are correct

[@Drew19822002]

@@Cygnus_MC There are bad leaders in life, but just like every company out there, they can find another leader to take the throne. The main reason I feel its a leader issue is because it makes no sense why you have so many loaders, and not one is really leading the charge. You could say forge is the main because its been around the longest, but still if a loader has enough fame, and has a solid team there should be no reason why that loader can't have a solid path, and plan moving forward unless you have nothing guiding your vision or someone. Its clear each loader has its own vision, but each loaders team does not seem to click, and stay on the same page. When everything works in sync things move fast and smooth, but none of these loaders seem to be in sync with there vision. I also agree 100% on the whole stay away from drama thing. If you asked me years ago I wouldn't have thought Minecraft as a video game would have so many issues going forward seeing the game it's self as a whole is simple, and not that complex. I thought Minecraft was going to be something for kids, and not adults when I heard about it, and saw videos.

[@Drew19822002]

@@Cygnus_MC Also Great job with all the videos. Regardless who agrees or disagrees you did a great job. You should be proud of your self, and have a pebble martini. 😉

[@TheFarix2723]

So, the drama all started because of poor record-keeping on a ban? However, I do think people throw charges of "homophobia" around way too quickly.

[@kozmikhero6749]

Ya I checked out the drama after this and it seemed like the guy was just a bit of a troll. As it stands now I still don't see the point of quilt. If they do add some new functionality in the future that'd be interesting but it just seems like a drama reaction project. Doesn't have to be that forever though

[@Cygnus_MC]

No that was Woven like i said, quilt actually has some cool but admittitly small benefits

[@etilworg]

so fabric is transfobid and quilt is drama driven trans modloader . ok.

[@Cygnus_MC]

There is no real proof fabric is transfobic. They only acted in a way people saw it as such

[@ataruarchives2428]

what the fuck is a "trans modloader" lmao

[@etilworg]

@@ataruarchives2428 sorry i dont care about english order of modifiers, the modloader is driven by trans drama

[@1snivy10]

a trans modloader is based as fuck. quilt supremacy

[@randomuseryt5143]

how about someone makes a modloader and not enforce their political ideology into every aspect? such as just banning both sides of the discussion and blacklisting mods that violate the community's rules we NEED an apolitical modloader to unite the community, not a handful of hugboxes for fragments of the community to reside in

[@Cygnus_MC]

Well thats not what quilt itself is is about

[@hitler69]

being apolitical means being a bigot for these people. fun fact: forge and fabric are both apolitical.

[@guymysteryman6390]

Fabric is BETTER!

[@Cygnus_MC]

How exactly

[@Dummigame]

Trans people are good

[@tsimafei3142]

Fabric transphobic? Now I'm using only Fablic lmao

[@Cygnus_MC]

1) its not 2) i will never understand how people can be this hateful for no reason lmao

[@melody_is_dead]

cringe

[@kerbstomp2484]

W spookwave4966 10:25