Why Does Thrawn Feel Inconsistent Between the Books and Star Wars Rebels?

I've always found Grand Admiral Thrawn to be a little inconsistent in his characterization between Star Wars Rebels and most of the books he's featured in. Why is that? Today I'll explain what I mean and try to figure out if there's a way it can make sense.
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#starwars

[@jonathanmurray834]

I like the idea that he’s almost accidentally become darker than he intended to

[@SoWhyX]

I agree. It fits well with his persona of having a brilliant military mind but being a complete idiot when it comes to politics

[@rhyanshelby6572]

It's like Ar'alani told him he needs to get in with the bad guys and he got way too hyper-focused on being bad

[@michaelramon2411]

It is a recurring theme in Star Wars (especially in Canon) that the Empire is an inherently corrupting organization. You can be a "good Imperial", but you cannot STAY a good Imperial - at some point something will be demanded of you that makes you cease to be either good or an Imperial.

[@danaroth598]

Not gonna lie, it feels like a real pity that Rebels didn't have a good opportunity to have Thrawn and Kallus compare notes on the morality of serving the Empire versus betraying it, because I bet that would have been a pretty enlightening conversation about where Thrawn's head was at.

[@topnotchshinobi]

The topic you speak of is sort of covered between Nightswan and Thrawn (during the climax of the 2017 Thrawn novel), but I agree with you nonetheless: Kallus and Thrawn definitely do need another opportunity to reunite and assess each other's current motivations/goals/morality (e.g. "Rangers of the New Republic").

[@shahzebhasan9995]

I will say that even canon book Thrawn is not an out-and-out hero. He does state that his main motivation for sparing lives is because most people can be useful assets in the future, and in his conversation with Nightswan he does talk about destroying dissent if it goes against his goals. But yeah, he is definitely not as cruel as the tv version.

[@evanceier8577]

IMO book thrawn is sympathetic villain, sorta, he's a villain but he's doing what he does to save his people and he isn't overly cruel.

[@themrmezbah]

True, also justified the wooki slaves to Eli as well. You are right he isn't too far into the morally good side of things.

[@evanceier8577]

@@themrmezbah he's just very focused on his people, if you aren't chiss you're secondary

[@themrmezbah]

@@evanceier8577 Yeah I agree. But I might be reaching but I also feel like he views very few but notable individuals such as Eli and Faro very highly. On par with the chiss even, but I might be reaching especially with Faro.

[@evanceier8577]

@@themrmezbah yeah maybe

[@SolarE845]

Hopefully with the somewhat more mature tone of the Live Action SW world they can make Thrawn more of a complex villain and less one-sided Bad guy. Not that his portrayal in Rebels was bad, I really appreciated his more calculated, tactical approach as it provided something different for the Rebels to face.

[@Lanosrep]

Hopefully, but with Filoni at the helm for both of these, it seems pretty likely that we'll be getting the Thrawn from Rebels, not the books

[@VGLounge]

He found the rebel base, but otherwise didn't accomplish anything more than a generic no-name officer in Rebels if I remember correctly.

[@tomfougstedt]

@@VGLounge I mean he didn't just find the rebel base, he completely annihilated a rebel cell(+ much of another). There aren't many in the Empire capable of doing that in a single battle.

[@VGLounge]

@@tomfougstedt Didn't the majority of the rebels get away? It's been awhile so I may have mis-remembered the exact details

[@tomfougstedt]

@@VGLounge Only the important characters did.

[@victorsardinia7120]

I want to see a Thrawn and Ezra show where they argue and fight but they slowly grow to understand each other. Like a sitcom on an abandoned planet with Thrawn and Ezra.

[@Dayummmsalt]

I don't find it likely as Thrawn has resurfaced in The Mandalorian, where Ahsoka is hunting him, which doesn't feel like something Ezra would be a fan of

[@JonathanLundkvist]

@@Dayummmsalt The idea that Ezra stayed with Thrawn willingly and they work together would be a great plot twist.

[@ryderscott8217]

@@JonathanLundkvist sort of like the Honorable Ones, but as en entire series

[@topnotchshinobi]

@@JonathanLundkvist One of the most essential interesting parts of the the original Heir to the Empire trilogy was the uneasy dynamic/"alliance of convenience" between C'baoth (the Dark Jedi/other main villain of the trilogy) and Thrawn; I wonder if Ezra is intended to become the heroic/antiheroic counterpart of C'baoth? (though personally, I'd instead prefer that our hypothetical "Disney canon" C'baoth instead turn out to be a clone of Dooku, since Dooku's charm/talent at politics makes for the perfect foil for Thrawn, who's good at military tactics while sucking at politics)

[@scotty7591]

@@Dayummmsalt is it possible Ahsoka is searching for Thrawn to find Ezra?

[@grown_teen]

I’m hoping he’ll survive the Ahsoka series so Timothy Zahn can write some more books 😅

[@topnotchshinobi]

Cryogenic/carbonite freezing could certainly allow Thrawn to influence the post-sequel trilogy era.

[@Lanosrep]

I'd rather a character have an impactful death, than be written out of death time and time again to the point that they seem like they are immortal

[@slyfer60]

Probably just a prequel series to describing how Thrawn ended up changing. Because I doubt Filoni will even care enough to do that.

[@Shermos]

Clone. Legends almost did it.

[@slyfer60]

@@Shermos how's this not a clone but Ezra in blue face...think about it.

[@henryhammond7393]

As Thrawn put it, breaking ones own patterns can be a valuable tool.

[@benjamincutts6949]

Alex: "maybe Thrawn has become a traitor to his former self" KZbin ad: "Watching a video about glue?"

[@mightheal]

I see Thrawn more that he chooses the most efficient path for his decisions. In the Ascendancy his hands are tied with a lot of rules of engagement so he's always looking for the most efficient solution that he is allowed to do but in the Empire he has no limits so he has no problem taking the efficient route by just killing a person.

[@pabl0sauced0]

But the book say otherwise

[@mightheal]

@@pabl0sauced0 Care to elaborate because we can't have a discussion with such a short sentence.

[@Iacedrom54]

@@mightheal In the most recent book, Greater Good, he goes significantly out of his way to prevent a group of refugees from killing themselves when they think that their planet has been destroyed. He all but directly disobeys orders to take them back to their planet and investigate whether or not its truly unsalvageable and there aren't any others alive, despite protests from their leader. Because the idea of so many people dying based on a mistaken perception doesn't sit right with him. It wasn't efficient and it skirted the boundaries of what he was authorized to do by the EDF, but he did it because he didn't want so many needless deaths.

[@mightheal]

@@Iacedrom54 He's using them as his excuse to get around the Ascendancy's rules of engagement. His warning flag was raised when finding out that the Nikardun tried to kill them, so he needs to go to their planet to find out why. I honestly don't think he cares that much if they kill themselves just as long as he gets what he wants from them.

[@Iacedrom54]

@@mightheal That's not what it says in the books and he goes to great lengths not just to investigate and help the group but to keep individual members of their group from dying if possible. You can assume he's lying, I guess, but he's pretty upfront with Thalias in both books and it still seems like way too much effort just for an investigation, if he didn't care about their lives at all.

[@thechisscast9431]

"I've never really heard anyone else complain about it" just about every Thrawn fan I know has complained about this extensively. granted it's a niche issue but avid fans are definitely annoyed by this inconsistency

[@mercurialswift7698]

Thrawn has honestly been my favourite character in all the Star Wars franchise ever since I read the first book what feels like ages ago

[@sandymorales7414]

I have had a tough time reconciling Rebels with the books. Thanks for doing this!

[@libidinistlyn]

i really liked the line "maybe hes a traitor to his former self" i kinda hope they go that route tbh

[@bradyda14]

This has been bothering me as well. In my mind in the rebels finale Thrawn is targeting empty building or places where there are no to few civilians on Lothal and just putting on a show for Ezra, we just dont see his perspective. I hope we get to see more of his heroics in live action

[@brittanyjtaylor2638]

Bring on Grysk Wars Thrawn!

[@Texamerican12]

Lars Mikkelsohn live action or bust

[@topnotchshinobi]

Lars will always have a special place in our Star Wars hearts (for his performance in Rebels), but Benedict Cumberbatch and Pierce Brosnan make for nice alternatives, too!

[@topnotchshinobi]

@@whyuhatan Just Googled/found the article which mentioned Benedict's disinterest; what a darn disappointment. :( (though I can't blame him; I can certainly imagine how uncomfortable it would be to wear blue makeup all day while filming) Still though, here's to hoping that live action Thrawn lives up to (and possibly exceeds) all of our expectations!

[@Ihavethetouch]

@@topnotchshinobi I don't think most actors would like to be associated with Star Wars these days.

[@nilsf5302]

Let's put it like this: Thrawn is designed to be a Villain, but because of his own moral compass he shouldn't agree on everything the Empire wants and have an own point of view constructed by logic, brilliant tactical thinking and his alliance with his species.

[@elliottwatt5297]

I think honestly because Thrawn is too complex to be portrayed in a show aimed solely at kids. Particularly one that didn’t really grow with its audience like Clone Wars did. I’m hoping Mandalorian gives him the depth he needs beyond just “bad guy evil”.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

That can't be right. If the show was not aimed at fans of Thrawn, why would it use Thrawn?

[@jeremyallen5974]

Spoiler alert: you're wasting your time expecting Disney to do him justice

[@jeremyallen5974]

​@@schwarzerritter5724 key jangling. What else?

[@kenji6492]

Thrawn is a person. He’s complicated and messy, capable of being a hero or villain depending on the point of view his stories are being told through.

[@thond]

The most interesting solution for any future appearances would be to present him as the villain, but to make whatever lurks in the Unknown Regions the real threat in the end. His origins, knowledge, tactical genius and unique position between the Empire and the Ascendancy would be way more effective for opening up further story lines than just saying "blue man bad, we kill him and we win". I really do hope Filoni understands that Thrawn has become way more than what he may have read 30 years ago. Also, Zahn's version of Thrawn & Ezra's Space Whale Adventures when???

[@michaelramon2411]

I think part of this comes from the ways over the years that certain fans (and to a lesser extent, Zahn himself) have allowed his cool factor to make them forget his evil status. Thrawn can provide whatever rationalizations he wants, but the fact is that a defining aspect of his character in both continuities is a willingness to kill people in the name of preserving a military dictatorship. He's not usually cruel or vindictive, but his central philosophy is amoral pragmatism which, because of his perception of which side is "prudent" to work with, causes him to commit evil deeds. That sort of works both ways. Thrawn can rationalize any evil deed he does as being the best thing for the Chiss or the galaxy, but he also rationalizes any "good" (or less evil) thing he does as well. He won't say "it would be wrong to bombard that city", he would say "it will not be productive to bombard that city." He wasn't against the Death Star because it was a horrific weapon of mass murder - he was against it because it cost too much and was a big single target. Is there ever a time Thrawn takes an actual moral stand, doing something sub-optimal (not costless, but actively costing something) because it is the right thing to do? I'm not aware of any, at least during his Imperial tenure. The way I see Thrawn, he is pretty consistently evil not because of his intentions, but because of his actions. Again, he's a master of rationalization, but those rationalizations don't matter to the people he kills and the worlds he tries to oppress. Almost everything he does (at least after the start of his Imperial service) makes the galaxy a worse place, and he could see that if he chose to. To me, the core of this dichotomy of "hero" and "villain" Thrawn is that he is evil that is good at telling itself it isn't evil, and he sweeps up a lot of fans in the process.

[@tsgskittles]

Imagine Ezra playing a similar role as Jorus C'baoth for Thrawn if they do actually show up in Mando or one of the other connected shows

[@pashatemurtem]

It was a very conscious decision. The original author was asked to create an antagonist to give the New Republic a credible and different obstacle to the interference or manipulation of force wielders. Ergo, Thrawn-calm, thoughtful, inciteful, mentoring, and erudite. By rights, these attributes earned him loyalty. However, psychologically these traits would also yield a principled, and even compassionate person, if perhaps draconian in some measure. I think the author was happy to explore these facets of Thrawn. Yet, Disney and all neatly packaged stories of a type need an antagonist who is clearly defined to give the heros more meaning and make their struggles more compelling to the reader/viewer. It was expedient to take the Thrawn of the 90's trilogy minus any of the author's further fleshed out and well reasoned traits in his newer 2 Thrawn trilogies and continue, either ignoring the intervening evolutions, or opting to try to revisit them later, explaining that the Emperor's manipulations had pushed Thrawn beyond his limits, "twisting" his moral compass. (After all, that is the meaning behind the name.) I think we are likely to have in Thrawn a sort of Colonel Nicholsen, Bridge on the River Kwai, moment.- A crushing realization that the good man he had been, he had betrayed, his care for his own people, everything for which he'd set out, left home to save, even the Empire he served for the purpose of securing, all of it, he had betrayed.

[@Zleno78]

I think thrawn was desperate with the pressure that the emperor and darth Vader were putting on him.

[@Crackmiser]

I wouldn’t even wanna think about how much pressure he must have been in the later episodes of rebels. He was constantly failing due the others under his command and even vader had new doubts about him. He needed everything to run smoothly and every time someone did somthing to screw up his palns he became more and more desperate to stay on the emperor’s good side.

[@libertysphoenix.4237]

All Star Wars Stories come from a Certain Point of View. Like Obi Wan Says in Return of the Jedi, when Luke confronts Ben about Vader being his father. Vader goes from ultimate baddie to someone who can be saved. So it would make sense in REBELS Thrawns the villain, because we are seeing things from the rebel point of view. In the Books we see everything in Thrawns point of view which is why we get the snippets of his thoughts like they come from his memory or a journal.

[@pabl0sauced0]

If we are in the rebels point of view then how do we see things the rebels never even seen. Im pretty sure there isn't a rebel hidden 9n every star destroyer. Lets stop trying to make senseless head cannon and just admit it's shitty writing😂

[@raximousprime2915]

@@pabl0sauced0 Not what he said. "Like Obi Wan Says in Return of the Jedi, when Luke confronts Ben about Vader being his father. Vader goes from ultimate baddie to someone who can be saved."- the entire movie isn't what Luke sees, your inventing an argument to argue against. The show is called REBELS not REBELS and their off and on again not evil antagonist Thrawn

[@redterror66]

Thrawn is still a cold calculating sociopath in the books. He's very unempathetic and just cares about winning but we empathize because it's from his perspective.

[@nikkubler]

I also think that the context of Thrawn firing on Lothal is important to remember. Palpatine was directly interested in the events happening, his royal guards were on Thrawn’s ship and Palpatine was there in hologram form for a good chunk of the events as well. I don’t think it’s a big leap to assume that Palpatine told Thrawn how he wanted things done and Thrawn is definitely smart enough to know that disobeying Palpatine isn’t a good idea, even if he doesn’t want to do what he’s being asked to do. Basically his boss was breathing down his neck about doing this whole bombardment thing right.

[@joebaker4116]

Exactly, I seem to recall that at the end of "Thrawn, Treason", Palps said he wanted Thrawn to get Bridger into the chamber by any means necessary... or words to that effect.

[@Dass_Jennir]

I personally didn’t find him inconsistent, at least in the Disney canon. The most cruel thing we see him doing in Rebels is that he made a mole in the Imperial Factory on Lothal kill himself with one of his defective speeders, and tbf, although he would have still been imprisoned (and everything that comes with that in the Empire), the mole could have admitted it and stop with the test-trap. The bombardment to Lothal was cruel, but again, he knew threatening innocents would be the weakness of the Rebels (at the end of the Thrawn novel, he had left his damaged escort ships vulnerable to attack but he knew Night Swan’s honor would prevent him from attacking them, an incalculable risk to external eyes) and we as the audience don’t know if he had analyzed a way to bombard zones that would drop casualties to a minimum. Other than that, to me it is pretty much the same Thrawn from the canon books but seen from the Rebels perspective, thus we don’t get to see his motivations and thoughts or the way he treats his subordinates, only an antagonistic force for our heroes to overcome.

[@sanstheelumbu]

Just asking Isn't in thrawn book canon treason Palpatine was adament for bringing some how in the destroyer and you can't disobey emperor's direct order , and he bombarded it? Also the factory mole made a mistake not an error

[@squallstopher608]

@@sanstheelumbu It wasn't a mistake or an error. It was sabotage

[@sanstheelumbu]

@@squallstopher608 yeah exactly A scout trooper could have been injured They also sabotaged the walker So thrawn knew instead of arresting , showing what a trooper face in battlefield is more explainable to them

[@MichaelTecca]

Thanks for your video! I also grew up reading Thrawn in Heir to the Empire, and have loved Zahn's books since then. The inconsistency has bothered me - doesn't feel fair to Thrawn's character. For example, in Rebels S3:E5 Hera's Heroes Thrawn loses his cool when his captain talks about destroying the Kalikori as a piece of "Alien trash". Nowhere in the books does Thrawn let his emotions get the better of him, (in a big way like that), before or after that moment in the cannon Trilogy written by Zahn. I appreciate the explanation of how Thrawn has been twisted by continually serving under the Emporer...it just seems apparent that Zahn and Filoni did not see totally eye-to-eye on Thrawn's portrayal. Overall Thrawn was introduced in a net-positive way, but yes, the inconsistency is there as a detriment.

[@DCUniverse816]

I like to think of him as a villain with a sympathetic origin story

[@ShadowJedi527]

Thrawn in series: villain Thrawn in books: anti-hero

[@lauraaaaaie]

I want a live action of Eli and Thrawn 🥲

[@TheMufflinator]

I would really like to see Canon explore the grey more, with generationist Imperial officers, Rebels like that one cell in Rogue One, and Thrawn. The people trying to do the right thing through methods others find questionable in themselves. There's a lot of potential here, and I'd love to see it explored.

[@jennifercook9832]

I have always looked at more villainous portrayal of Thrawn in Rebels as a pacing choice. I think it would've distracted from the story of they'd focused on his more heroic qualities. I do think we got glimpses of it. His outburst at that one officer who sneered at Twi'ilk art is much more sympathetic after reading chaos rising. I honestly have never held the execution of that one worker against him because even without the added context of the books there's no way Thrawn sees the guy as anything but a murderer. Just think of number of men under his command that died and it wouldn't surprise me if that number included fresh faced recruits.

[@captaindc3889]

I do think the Empire probably changed some things about Thrawn over time

[@topnotchshinobi]

Yeah, the "Becoming the Mask" trope is feeling very relevant here.

[@wtk6069]

You mean...the Disney empire, right?

[@SeanA099]

I was first introduced to him in the first canon Thrawn book. I loved that he was baffled by the Empire’s lack of focus on civilians. He was an honorable warrior who fought his way to rise through the ranks and earn his position

[@patrickstewart3446]

I think the main reason for the differences is as simple as Rebels Y7 rating. The younger the target audience the more clear-cut the differences between heroes and villains. The older the audience, the more complex a character’s motoivations. If Rebels were for an older audience you might get to see a Thrawn closer to the books.

[@SverreSA]

A villain? Me? I'm just doing my part for the Chiss Ascendancy. My only crime is having the dopest offices in all of The Galactic Empire!

[@TheNorthernSkeptic]

Just be careful with that bodyguard of yours... Something fishy about him...

[@harrisonalexander6203]

Great insight Alex

[@ikariiprince]

I do really hope Timothy Zahn is heavily involved in his first live action appearance or at least consulted on it

[@heathenfire]

I hope so too

[@notrixamoris3318]

LARS MIKKELSEN FOR LIVE ACTIOM THRAWN!!!

[@S0HJIN]

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." But really, on certain sides of any war, you're not going to get a full picture. I feel storytelling in Rebels gives us the idealistic Rebel POV. But in the books, we see Thrawn more fleshed out, revealing a different side. I like how Rogue One uncovered a lot of the grey in the Rebel Alliance, without contradicting anything. I love the similar exploration in Inferno Squad. Good and evil intertwined in some measure.

[@mattharrington9242]

Love both the canon novels and Rebels, but I've absolutely felt this exact thing since the end of Rebels. Appreciate you sharing your question and Zahn's answer. I'm worried about how Thrawn will be handled by The Mandalorian/Ahsoka/Rangers of the New Republic, but also hope Zahn gets some novels to, as you said, write Thrawn's view of the events or surrounding events to his portrayal in the show. I try to shrug it off, but also feel it is another example that not all publication mediums are equal and I feel that is unfortunate for authors.

[@Centurian128]

Villains are the heroes of their own stories.

[@MrThunderwing]

What about Wullf Yularen in the 'is he good or bad?' category. He never struck me as a truly 'bad' guy in any of the Rebels shows or the couple of books I've seen him feature in.

[@frankiewestmoreland2965]

Glad that you're investigating this - I've wondered if and how they would incorporate the Grysks with everything else in canon. Is Thrawn bothered about them still by the time we see him in the Ahsoka show or has he taken care of them already and is leading a new remnant of the Empire, thus returning us to that original time period of the Thrawn trilogy? I'm assuming he'll pop up in the Ahsoka show. And of course - where's Ezra? We'll see what happens!

[@Stingray42285]

Looking forward to "Lesser Evil"

[@spoke2639]

I think the simplest explanation for why Thrawn seems more sympathetic in the books is because the books are largely from his perspective so we get to see more of his thought process and justifications for his actions. In the animated show, we only see him through the eyes of the rebels and other imperial officers so he feels more like a villain. Villains always seem less villainous when the story is told from their point of view instead of the point of view of their victims.

[@TheExilesStudio]

its simple really zahn created the character so when he writes for him he paints thrawn as the hero who is always right with no real flaws beyond just not understanding politics or the force meanwhile filoni paints thrawn as the villain he was originally written to be.

[@cristinastan217]

Well i don’t really find him inconsistent. If I remember correctly it’s the Chiss people he talks about in the quote ate the beginning. And in chaos rising at the end when Thrawn talks to Ar'alani he mentions that he views other species as assets, he sees their art and culture but doesn’t see the individuals. Thrawn is willing to make sacrifices when it is required but he prefers to find ways around it. This is in stark contrast to Grievous for example who is very much ok with sacrificing entire ships if it means he wins or gets a tactical advantage.

[@akjdhajkdjhaghjkadh9804]

good video

[@Daggersong]

I 100% agree with you. with the way thrawn is in Rebels Vs the new books Vs the original Trilogy of books...

[@DarthKhai1991]

I always felt Thrawn is a noble pragmatist.

[@NebirosKnight]

Rebels Thrawn just needed a Snickers.

[@thomasharrington1386]

I agree that there are inconsistencies, and have pretty much come to your conclusion as well. Working with the Empire and the Emperor has changed him and made him a much darker character. It kind of reminds me of any of the Legends stories where a Jedi goes to the dark side to try to defeat it from within and ultimately fails and becomes the thing they were fighting against. That feels like Thrawn's story, just without the force involved.

[@careydaugherty4043]

I am really hoping we find Thrawn and Ezra working together. Like everyone is on a mission to save Ezra from Thrawn and they get there to find out they’re Allies now. I feel it would honor the books. Ashoka has a big view of her galaxy where as Thrawn has a view on an even bigger picture of the galaxy because he’s been a part of both his galaxy and the empires. All that to say, there is a lot of possibility and fun they can have with getting them all swept up on an adventure together and lead that into them all helping The Chiss.

[@Yuyu5001]

Good news here is that Zahn is indeed getting consulted on Thrawn for the Ahsoka series! So there hopefully will be quite a bit more nuance in that show. On topic, I agree with your assessment and think that he was somewhat desperate after Treason. He was directly threatened by Palpatine and ending the Lothal rebellion kinda feels like a necessity for his continuous survival at that point, or at least the mere chance for it. I think that is a big part of it, plus what you said about him changing over his many years of service.

[@thealex2971]

I know i know but imagine this sequel trilogy Thrawn with Yuuzan Vong as allies against New Republic and Imperial Remmnant

[@CaptainMitchell0123]

I am sure I have read this somewhere as a comment a long time ago, but I loved the idea. I would love to see a Sherlock Holmes style tv show with thrawn as the lead. I don't know who you would have as the "Watson" character, depends on the timeline I would assume, before the OG Trilogy i would assume Eli Vanto and we would just have a show retelling the events of the first 3 books. I would PREFER a show based on the Ascendancy novels. Just give us a tv show that is so far removed from the rest of the galaxy that anyone could watch it. I basically just want a crime thriller set in the star wars universe.

[@wtk6069]

Because EU Thrawn has as much in common with Disney Thrawn as the Edgar Rice Burroughs Tarzan with the Disney version (meaning only the superficial parts are the same).

[@jeanniefromtahini5197]

I think you're right about the difference. I also think Mr Zahn wants to continue to be able to write Thrawn and be involved, but if he hinted at frustrations or displeasure at how the character was handled he might very well lose his ability to continue to write him. I feel the same as you - it doesn't really matter. It does make me a bit sad to think people won't understand why he's such a great character.

[@heathenfire]

That's what I was thinking too

[@ryanhoerner]

Spot on. He will do what he must in order to save his people, and power changes people. Can’t wait to see him live!

[@saharagold14]

I don’t know if we will ever see this, but I’m fascinated by Thrawn’s work in the Unknown Regions, and it would be great to read some books about it. The annexation of the Unknown Regions for Palpatine would be his sweet spot, his happy space. He could do preemptive strikes to his heart’s content. And he wouldn’t get called back to Coruscant all the time in front of hostile interrogations to justify his military decisions and actions. I’d like to learn how he found (or built) the Hand of Thrawn, then arguably created the most extensive database known to the galaxy (giving Obra-ski a run for its money).

[@fishtok4jesus]

I’ve read most of the books with Thrawn I read the heir to the empire trilogy and all of the new Thrawn that have come out and I’m at the end of rebels season 3 I have always like Thrawn and the way he works I didn’t notice he seems more evil in Rebels but I think the way he works things out in the book is pretty much the same in rebels and now that I hear your idea about he’s spent time in the evil empire and it’s rubbed off that makes a lot of sense I’m excited to hopefully see him in the Ahsoka series and hope whoever they choose to play him does there homework and reads every book he’s been in

[@mikey77750]

I just finished reading lesser evil. A tremendous book! I think you could also link book Thrawn with tv Thrawn in this respect. He will do anything to protect the chiss and the ascendancy, but being in the empire, he doesn’t care as much about protecting anything there, just as long as he keeps the protection of his ascendancy first and foremost in his mind.

[@PhantomObserver]

I'm not complaining all that much about Thrawn in Rebels, because in many ways he *is* a more complex character -- in comparison with his Imperial contemporaries. The vast majority of original Rebels villains have tended to be written as valuing their own egos over their competence as members of the Imperial 'elite." Tarkin, the Emperor and Vader are very much themselves, painted in broader strokes, which is fitting considering they were originally intended to be reminiscent of the 1940s Republic Studios serials baddies. Thrawn's character virtues -- his intelligence, his appreciation for art, and a talent for outthinking his opponents -- are very much in evidence in Rebels, but we also have to consider that Disney was aiming this series at a market segment dominated by early teen audiences who might not have the inclination to actually hunt out and read the Thrawn books. So of course the portrayal will have broader strokes, to communicate the essence of the character more quickly.

[@Kofdoom1]

I was thinking about this not that long ago, and the rebels finale bothered me as well. My guess is that, if Zahn gets to write about Thrawn after rebels, he'll explain it as Thrawn having prepared his targets and actually fired at empty buildings or something along those lines, just to make Ezra comply.

[@kungolaf4499]

Isn't it explained in the third Thrawn book though? The Emperor threatens him with execution or expulsion if he doesn't abide with the ruthless tactics of the Empire. He becomes frusturated and "goes against his own morals and goals" for the sake of staying in the Empire.

[@Kofdoom1]

@@kungolaf4499 I don't remember exactly because I read it a while back, but I think that part was more about him working with the Chiss and where his true allegiance lays rather than about whether he was ruthless or not.

[@sarahluise3153]

@@kungolaf4499 I believe you're right. He caught flak for letting the Rebel leadership escape from Attolon and well Palp doesn't give second mercy. Plus the survival of his precious TIE Defender project was at stake so he really had to step up and give the Emperor results he wanted, collateral be damned

[@kungolaf4499]

@@Kofdoom1 Yes but he needed to prove his loyalty to Palpatine. And that would happen through Tarkin-esque brutality of obliterating civilians and stepping out of your moral comfort zone to achieve what is necessary.

[@flynnjamison8321]

Thrawn is an amazing character and one of my favourites but I do agree that in the books by Timothy Zahn he is handled as an almost hero type figure only joining the empire to eventually if needed they could help the chiss with the grisk in the unknown regions whereas in rebels he is a straight up villian. I prefer to think of him as an anti hero someone who wants to help his people the chiss by joining the empire but will also do pretty bad things to keep himself in the emperor's good books 😀😀😀😀😀

[@spectacularspiderfan9135]

You talk about Thrawn from the original novels and the Rebels series

[@silvernexoknight]

Awesome Vid 💙

[@patrickramseyart]

The concept of a gradual descent into darkness, as Thrawn's time in the Empire corrupts him... I find that very interesting. I'm definitely on board for that!

[@muhammadhabibieamiro3639]

I love the rebels ver

[@MegaAndrws]

Because in the books he is written by his creator, the person who knows him the most, in Rebels, he is not.

[@john8062]

Because the books blow rebels out of the water with lore and rebels is making it up on the way. That being said I love rebels.

[@squirt3299]

Because Filoni doesn't care about canon

[@auntvesuvi3872]

Thanks, Alex! 🔷 🔴 🔷 🔴🔷

[@tobiasweber2517]

any idea/hypothesis on what the super weapon referenced in the last 5min of the "book II" is?

[@R2D2ICooseYou]

Nailed it

[@TrainerNomed]

Is it possible Palpatine's presence in the final episode of Rebels pressures Thrawn to do anything to earn his faith after Thrawn: Treason?

[@EM-lz4rb]

2:25 Who else immediately heard him say "It was Governor Price all along" to the "Agatha All Along" tune?

[@tomperry5947]

I'd love to see Thrawn in live action with Ahsoka

[@leopard7979]

Totally agree... I fell in love with him in the books. Rebels didn’t do him justice 😫 Hoping he gets his dues in the Ahsoka show

[@ethantrimble958]

I think Thrawn does evil things for what he sees as the greater good. To Thrawn the ends justify the means.

[@codysmovingcastle]

I'm expecting Thrawn to be in panic mode by the time of his live action reveal and will be willing to do anything necessary to save the Chiss. Ar'alani hinted at Thrawn being too late in Treason. And the discussion about isolating Thrawn in Greater Good...well, that's all we need to know. By the time Thrawn abandons the Empire literally in Vader's face to save the Skywalkers in Alliances, I'm pretty sure his loyalties are still pretty clear. But absolutely right about making a deal with the devil, it's not going to end well for Thrawn and that's straight up just a tragedy.

[@chriswood1210]

Writing. Its the writing

[@WarWolf111]

Thrawn has always been a good guy from a certain point of view.

[@chrissgreene1]

Thrawn is SO much better in the books, so much more complex and different than any other Star Wars character. They should’ve modeled him after the books

[@Memelord1117]

Question tho: What would thrawn think of the Tycon class battlestation to the death star?

[@johncoffman5536]

Great analysis.

[@henryhammond7393]

It’s like reading something about Nixon by Bob Woodward and then reading Nixon’s autobiography... there are going to be differences in how heroic the subject is portrayed. ... That was just a for instance, never thought I’d be comparing Thrawn to Nixon... we all know George thought of Nixon as more of a Palpatine.

[@backtothefutureman1]

Dave Filoni announced that he consulted with Timothy Zhan is for Thrawn in the Ahsoka show in order to get the character right at Star Wars Celebration 2023.

[@seriouswall1173]

I'll believe when I see it. These writers for Disney star wars haven't been good or reliable lately.

[@mgmanman]

Hi, It sounds funny but the audible link isn't working 😅 I would love to try an audiobook and support the channel

[@drakeevans8042]

When Thrawn dose appear in live action I hope Pelleon is there as his second in command the the Heir to the empire series

[@palestblue]

I always thought it's because Rebels is focusing on a younger target audience and that meant the villain needed to be more clearly 'evil'. I really hope that he will be depicted with more nuance in the live action show(s). Plus I hope hope hope that Zahn will have a say in his fate 🙏

[@kieran8921]

'All lives are important and I resist the thought of standing by and watching 200 possibly needless deaths'. The keyword there being 'needless', rescuing refugees from hostile actors and dealing with an insurgency are two very different scenarios, especially when the first has no cost associated with it. Essentially those deaths would have been needless. Also, I do not think that would Thrawn would have a problem taking credit Batoom, if anything he would view it as a waste not to. Although I never really liked how childish Rebels was in comparison to the Clone Wars, I wish Disney had given them the time they needed to develop storylines as mature and well-produced as the later seasons of the Clone Wars. As Rebels lack a lot of depth and even Pryce just acts dumber compared to the book. But because it was rushed they had to rely on old star wars tropes of incompetent stormtroopers and crass honour, also if anyone says it was a kids show so was Clone Wars.

[@silhouette4911]

I prefer to think that being part of the empire corrupted his mind and turned him darker

[@irrelevanturchins4429]

I agree with your assessment. Thrawn on TV doesn't care beyond power. But in the Thrawn of trilogy, he emphasizes that while power is both and end and a means it takes hard work to get to it. Power is lnt power. It's logistics, study, intuition, military might.

[@notrixamoris3318]

Legend Thrawn and Disney Thrawn are different...but in the end in Timothy Zahn we trust...and as long as Lars Mikkelsen will play live action Thrawn I am not complaining.

[@captaincoolbreeze9429]

My look on this, in Rebels, Thrawn is a willing servant of the Empire which he believes is stronger than the Republic which preceded it to deal with the threats in the Unknown Regions. The Battle of Batonn isn't really inconsistent since Thrawn never addressed the reason for civilian casualties being so high with Pryce interjecting quickly about how there was no longer any rebel presence in that system. As for killing Sumar, I believe that actually doesn't clash with his views about taking another life since he was rooting out saboteurs who were indirectly killing Imperial troops. Lastly, the holding Lothal's capital hostage with his Star Destroyers was a sound tactic since he knew Ezra would not sacrifice the lives of his people.

[@michaelalvarez5630]

Stuff like this is the reason I don't read SW Books often.

[@Mal-sg6zc]

Fair enough. Though zahn’s books i would highly recommend in general both canon and legends They are just good lol