Why Don’t Americans Trust Experts Anymore? | Amanpour and Company

A tussle between science and politics is defining the pandemic response of the Trump administration. How did this increasing rejection of expertise get started? Professor Tom Nichols wrote a prescient book on the subject in 2017, and joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss.
Originally aired on May 15, 2020.
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Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
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[@evelynhopkins8837]

Isaac Asimov said it best: “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” The internet has also accelerated this “folie a deux” delusion.

[@namorhere4655]

Well suggested.

[@a_diamond]

It's not just ignorance. It's that not all scientists have been honest and non corrupt. Some of the overt lies have cost lives. We're not talking about it. We just pretend that everyone who worries history might repeat itself must be a moron. How about people talk about the mistakes made, and why we should believe you don't intend to repeat such mistakes? The record is not squeaky clean folks.

[@a_diamond]

@Bruce strkland Yeah. Not all scientists are starry-eyed and honest and well intentioned. Mistakes aren't just made by people who are leery of trusting people who previously have cost lives or at least put finances ahead of people's wellbeing. This isn't a one way street.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

“folie a deux”? Here's some anti-intellectualism fer ya--spare me the Frenchy crap. Yee haw! ;)

[@a_diamond]

@@not-so-smartaleck8987 :) thanks, I needed the laugh..

[@annagrigoryan7339]

What's missing from this discussion is that the reason for the mistrust is corporation's influence over science. Big business is the reason that sugar was considered OK for years, and fat was considered bad, while the obesity epidemic was allowed to balloon. Big pharma funds many drug studies and profits from them, even when the drugs they develop pose a serious health risk. Corporations have so much power over the production of scientific knowledge, as well as politicians, which is why people have lost trust. Of course, a more reasonable approach would be to demand laws that bar their influence over public policy.

[@Foldingsurfboards]

This was literally my first thought. Second, there are varying levels of expertise. Third, if you take everything at face value then you're naive. Fourth, there should be a neutral thumb.

[@jaaksavat7916]

It's got a name and Nobel prize winning social economic theory turned ideology, neoliberalism

[@aa2ll260]

Indeed, but there is more to it than malintent. I'll use climate science to illustrate, but this is happening in many fields (not least the medical profession). If you are inside the professional tent, there's a lot of nuances involved. If they told the public the truth, it would only serve to confuse them. Simply to tell the truth might be considered socially counterproductive. There is a real dilemma involved. What typically happens is that after considering the science, and reaching the conclusion, a one sided message has to be constructed (i.e. propaganda) to move the public mind to wherever experts think it should be. Even when done with the best of intentions, in the modern world, there's always an agenda. So, what happens when you have opposing agendas, as with climate change? One side propagandising with an agenda to save the planet, the other with an agenda to save corporate profits. Or is it one side messaging to spread fear in order to obtain research grants with the other messaging to rescue the public from all the attendant costs? One way or another, it all gets reduced to propaganda. That's unscientific. In my view, the scientific community needs to stop second guessing the public, even when its for "their own good". More generally, whether it's the mainstream or alternative media, there's no such thing as a news service any more. Every voice has a purpose. When it comes to economics and public policy, it is taken as given that any given expert is bought and paid for. However famously dumb the American public may be (in their heads), I'm convinced they've recognised this intuitively, hence distrust of experts, hyper-susceptibility to confirmation bias and a preference for one's own views over those of "experts". We are living in interesting times, post truth.

[@noelcrenshaw7969]

They addressed that around 7mins in. In short though, not listening to experts because they aren't always spot on every time is childish.

[@shelldown]

@@aa2ll260 Cynicism is such a cruel disease, I hope you feel better soon.

[@rosiereal]

I was a Registered Nurse for many years. The most dangerous staff at work, were the ones who didn't know what they didn't know, and wouldn't admit it.

[@sifridbassoon]

I had this conversation with a good friend of mine. Very educated (M.D. and PhD in chemistry). After thinking a lot about it, this is my personal opinion. Through the 50s and into the 60s, most Americans believed what "experts" told them. Then, in the early 60s (I think), there were the pronouncements about things like saccharin in foods and drinks, nitrites in bacon etc. that turned out to be bogus (at least at the levels being talked about). Then after Vietnam in the 60s and Watergate in the 70s, society came to believe that anyone who believed what the government (or any other authority) said was a fool.

[@TRE45ON.is.Bat5hit.Crazy.U.S.G]

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot" - Mark Twain

[@winterlandboy]

He was a visionary

[@nancysanders2398]

Jj I,completely agree with what you stated!!

[@randyevermore9323]

@@Jj-gi2uv Speaking of narcissistic children . . .

[@flugsven]

Jj I encourage you to check out the history of polio, measles, small pox, tuberculoces to name four terrors of the past. Google and learn. We take so much for guaranteed today. Todays vaccines are not perfect, but they helped us almost eradicate this horrible diseases. Do you really want them back?

[@samsun01]

Trite.

[@jgingras2615]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair

[@jron20r51]

One of my favorite sayings

[@dalehallam2578]

Not just money, it’s the power, more than anything

[@MLP88]

Or his Confirmation Bias.

[@cherylalt101]

J Gingras The Jungle was a book which really opened my 15 year old eyes, a very important book. I wonder if it is still required reading in high schools today or if not required, at least suggested. It gives a very good idea of what life under unrestricted or unregulated corporations is like for employees, who in turn are also consumers.

[@jgingras2615]

@@cherylalt101 Being educated in French here in Québec, Sinclair was not part of the curiculum... ever. I doubt The Jungle would even be suggested nowadays considering that in our times, Twain is "judged" racist, Hemminghway misogynistic, Fitzgerald anti-semitic: surely Sinclair is pro-communism, i.e. STALINIST-ATHEIST-GENOCIDAL. Just shows Orwell was right all along... and still is.

[@Mary-gz1qw]

They don't trust experts, but they trust a lying con artist. Perfect.

[@WanderTheNomad]

A good lying con artist can hold the same authority as an expert. Unfortunately.

[@charcolew]

If you are never taught to think critically or rationally, you cannot distinguish between fact and fiction

[@zapazap]

How do I know who the experts are when there are competing claims of expertise? And if you presume to tell me, what grounds have for my trusting your lay judgement? Or have you expertise in the identification of (honest) experts? . Practical epistemology is not easy. If people are learning that, that is a good thing.

[@universeofopulence]

@@zapazap ...an "expert" can be / could be corrupted too...

[@mrdfac]

Every religion proves you correct.

[@leschortos9196]

He got it right when he said child like, that's the mentality of many today....

[@3ld919]

You can't reason someone out of something they were never reasoned into in the first place.

[@nikanj6]

Well said. That makes too much sense.

[@hifismiffy]

@@nikanj6 There are too many people out there who cannot grasp the difference between sense and nonsense. People who are willing to accept the words of a man without a single fact to corrobarate what he says, who believe without question.

[@joedellaselva1251]

3LD Change a Fool's mind against his will, he'll have the same opinion still.

[@charlieross-BRM]

Kind of like a baby bird is going to think a dog is its mother, if that's the first thing the fledgling sees. Other than that, the average bird has more critical thinking skills than the average trumper.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

Stupid is as stupid does. --Forrest Gump (referring to his half-wit brother, Donald (G)ump.)

[@NickDanger0001]

I taught military history. Students saw 300 and actually thought Spartans fought without armor. When I pointed out that wasn't true, many wanted to argue, based entirely on that movie.

[@politereminder6284]

😂😂😂 That's hilarious!

[@acedrumminman]

@@politereminder6284 Yes, and Artificial Sweetener causes Cancer, there was WMD in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love!

[@NickDanger0001]

Movies became a real problem. Braveheart, for example, not one fact presented in that movie was correct, not even the dates. But morons believe it.

[@rikcoach1]

Nick Danger 🙄 Of cause they did. Ugh

[@albertawildcat3164]

I understand exactly what you're dealing with , I had a similar experience with a group of students regarding The June 6 1944 landings in Normandy. They absolutely refused to believe the British and Canadians actually made up the bulk of the first wave to land...Because they had seen the movie Saving Private Ryan and there wasn't a single Brit or Canadian in it! Even after I showed them copies of the Order of Battle, they were highly doubtful of its authenticity. Just shows how strong an influence modern culture has on young minds.

[@ramonpunsalang3397]

The Internet made everyone an expert overnight.

[@zapazap]

How do I know who the experts are when there are competing claims of expertise? And if you presume to tell me, what grounds have for my trusting your lay judgement? Or have you expertise in the identification of (honest) experts? . Practical epistemology is not easy. If people are learning that, that is a good thing.

[@mattrussillo4587]

🤔

[@mattrussillo4587]

@@zapazap It's usually dead giveaways when diots who don't know what they're talking about about such as Donald Trump saying he's an expert on this that and the other behind which he has no credentials whatsoever. Versus someone who has dedicated a life and education to it. Certainly not the final but a definite good gauge that we have always relied on this planet and it served as well until we had a lunatic that wanted to throw a monkey wrench into the whole process.Tyrany governs by chaos. Disarm people of crucial tools like rational and logic and that's got to be one of the quickest recipes! And then all you need are the Willing flying monkeys to believe it. I'm sure if you look hard enough you can even find people who still believe the World is Flat and pushing the same lie on people long enough there are the gullible who will eventually succumb to it dick Foley if it it helps them realize the otherwise impossible.

[@zapazap]

@@mattrussillo4587 : It is often easy to determine that someone is not a trustworthy expert. Note though that my question concerns the difficulty of determining that someone *is* a trustworthy expert. This an altogether different (and much more difficult) problem.

[@zapazap]

@@mattrussillo4587 : By the way, can you cite any case of Trump claiming to have (as opposed to acting as if he had) expertise, either seriously or in jest? Trump commits many foibles, but I don't recall this in particular.

[@thesaw9988]

It's simple: politicians tell us what we want to hear. Experts tell us want we need to hear.

[@surreen1]

That's how it's supposed to go but now days experts lie for the money.

[@fancynancylucille]

@@surreen1 Yes!!!!!! They do!!!!!

[@thesaw9988]

@Richard Williams To whom are you actually referring?

[@g.williams2047]

Experts tell us what keeps their funding coming in.

[@thesaw9988]

@@g.williams2047 Europeans like me don't care.

[@mattb3846]

In addition to social media, I would add Fox News as a key cause for the growing mistrust of experts, science, and the decline of rational thought.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

And every other Rupert Murdoch property.

[@pollysey6577]

Yup. He refers to it.

[@jean-claudearsenault224]

two to tango, left in a field with nobody listenning, they're out. The people make those Media entities work.

[@Soapandwater6]

You mean Fox News State TV.

[@hifismiffy]

Yes. When you are willing to ditch scientific reason for the words of a failed businessman on the basis that he is different, the outcome is not going to be pleasant.

[@pollysey6577]

He admits where he was wrong. That’s the sign of a true expert and learned person.

[@Soapandwater6]

Yes, it is!

[@Toocoolforunclesam]

Exactly, its the only way to learn

[@Meekseek]

That's a script, he knows how to fish,

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

If you're talking about Trump, he hasn't admitted everything yet--not by a long shot. He can't even admit it to himself.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Trump 2020 is the same as Trump 1970. He has made zero effort to hide his defects. So who is to blame?

[@donnale3881]

We, the normal people trust the experts, it’s the trumpians that don’t, only because the truth is inconvenient for them.

[@Mirror0CJ]

It is not just happened to experts, There are so many American netizens who never been to China “educate “Chinese how bad their lives are .

[@sitoudien9816]

American pundit Gordan Chang is one of those netizens. He predicted the collapse of China in 2010. Be ethnic Chinese doesn't make one an expert on China. Those netizens are China bashers and will never set foot in China or even have a passport.

[@kentsmith1507]

Please keep speaking TRUTH!!!!

[@lohphat]

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

[@bobomaigret5430]

This cult now refers to itself as MAGA.

[@wayneriley7367]

He was very smart!

[@elainetaylor6941]

Very true and now we have a President who is the poster child of ignorance that has brought it to the forefront.

[@Soapandwater6]

I have family members who hold that belief. So sad.

[@wayneriley7367]

Soapandwater6 same here. Someone should be having a discussion about how we can live together in a democracy when a good percentage are just , well, stupid?

[@synewparadigm]

“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”- George Orwell

[@agregoris8761]

Such as....

[@synewparadigm]

@@agregoris8761 communism on top of the list.

[@_P_M_]

Exactly! Experts are not immune to hubris or elitism, in fact they incredibly susceptible to it. Prof Nichols seems annoyed that anyone would ever challenge their proclamations. We should sit down, shut up, and just do as we're instructed. It's sort of an atheistic version of the clergy divining the will of God for the laity.

[@synewparadigm]

@@_P_M_ The left have replaced god with another god.

[@markbeames7852]

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” ― Isaac Asimov

[@TRE45ON.is.Bat5hit.Crazy.U.S.G]

It's not the poor that you have to be afraid of, they're use to going without. It's those that have never gone without, they will lose their minds."

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Nope. Poor people are masters of conspiracy nonsense.

[@frany7493]

Agree. Poor people suffer. Suffering deepens the quality of the soul. Suffering people are able to discern right and wrong. These people are brats who never grew up. They were taught "the American Dream". They have to be sleeping to enjoy it. In the middle of a pandemic poor people are not going to restaurant, nail salons, bars and outdoor activities. The biggest complainers are the business owners who don't give a damn because they are in the "American Dream" alternate reality. The same as the Strafford's wives, but in a larger scale.

[@heidijanet]

IncognitoTorpedo poor people are victims of conspiracy nonsense, without access its hard to blame them.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

@@heidijanet Access to what? Everyone who believes in conspiracy nonsense is a victim of it, but society suffers as well.

[@tinahaynes696]

The Gentleman is talking about “ the good Germans, watching, as the trains roll through town “

[@g.williams2047]

Trains never rolled

[@andrewherman5010]

because expert testimony can be skewed by government interference, as anybody knows.

[@yowhatitlooklike]

Ah yes getting to the heart of the problem. "Here is an expert to explain why experts aren't trusted anymore"

[@wiltonjr]

Professor Tom Nichols, I wish I could explain the world to my friends that way you do!

[@Soapandwater6]

Same!

[@Toocoolforunclesam]

Corruption over time and cuts to education, teaching religion as fact, teaching creationism in the classroom, the list goes on.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

The religious wackos in the US--by which I mean primarily, the so-called Evangelical Christians--are a big part of the problem, interfering with both government and education (as well as--ahem--a woman's right to choose).

[@carolinequin]

You all are hysterical. You can’t control us and it just eats you up. As a conservative I don’t give a red hot darn what you do. Why are you so worried about what I do? You libs are the moral majority from the 80’s. You are dangerous. What a bunch of Karens

[@labsquadmedia176]

@Nobody here but us Chaotic Neutral chickens How so?

[@celtglen]

I use to teach my trade (35 years as a professional-award winning etc.) until I ran into exactly this. Here is something to ponder for ALL OF US including me-just because you have a voice does not mean you have the right to use it.

[@etbuch4873]

That goes even more with the "raw power" of the very few top politicians of the world's only hegemonic regime, if one should take your statement literally. When Ma'am Albright (?) said, "if the US uses its military power, it is because we can," (can't quote verbatim, but that is pretty much what she said in public and on TV that got transmitted around the entire "universe".), that is what popped into one's head, then one started wondering, "Really? REALLY???"

[@wbdill]

Sounds like a mass level Dunning Krueger effect.

[@publiusovidius7386]

Only about half of Americans even take the trouble to vote, much less stay informed on current affairs. Total civic decadence.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

It'll be a challenge with the 2020 US presidential election. Voting might have to take place by mail, or in some other way that doesn't involve physically showing up at a voting location--unless they can figure out some social distancing guidelines that will accommodate it. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I think I read/heard that Trump is against voting by mail for some reason...

[@zapazap]

How do I know who the experts are when there are competing claims of expertise? And if you presume to tell me, what grounds have for my trusting your lay judgement? Or have you expertise in the identification of (honest) experts? . Practical epistemology is not easy. If people are learning that, that is a good thing.

[@Murderbot2000]

Yet on the other hand, a lot of our people subscribe heavily to batshit conspiracy theories.

[@suprgx472]

Toddler mentality.

[@leafuller3153]

Thank you for this interview. It's makes you feel like there are still intelligent voices of reason based on facts out there

[@heartofahobbit]

It's very sad that we were so much more mature as a society back in the 60's than we are now.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

Mature? With all the hippies?? (and Nixon?) LOL

[@TheAssetmgr]

In the 60s white people believed black people were inferior backed by science by experts

[@scottgriggs2596]

The pandering by elected officials who should know better is the most disappointing part of this whole thing. At a time when the U.S. and the world are facing a number of very difficult challenges that will require shared sacrifice to solve, there are no grownups in the room to discipline the child-like attitudes of the malcontents in our society.

[@Soapandwater6]

Well said!

[@rsenscas]

I second that notion.

[@villeh100]

We as a people have been trained to vote for person whose opinions best match ours. Maybe the thinking is that "I as a voter know how things should be done in this country, or even in the World". But isn't this extremely egoistical point of view? I can have opinions on many things, even I can claim some sort of knowledge of some topics. But at best our knowledge is ab approximation of reality. Why I should vote for the person who seems to think the same as me? Shouldn't it be better to vote for the person who seems to me to be most qualified and upright person? This I see as the real issue, and this I see as the source of the tribalism.

[@Meekseek]

Ville Hautamäki newsflash for you, you can vote all you like, you don't chose the potus, the CFR and others like them do. Hence the farce that is the Electoral College

[@orangeziggy348]

Scott Griggs well said

[@californiadreamer5968]

Wow! This guy is a genius. I wish I could explain this to my republican friends as intelligently as he does. I just get so pissed off every time they try to justify their childish notions and I can’t express myself intelligently.

[@arthurriley3106]

Go to any home and watch the family watch any Olympics. What you'll observe is during these Olympics, everyone quickly becomes the expert.

[@eschwarz1003]

Tom Nichols makes so many very solid rational and unique points. Motivated to read his writings.

[@rickmemmer5625]

But will that motivation lead you to consider the possibility that you’re not as rational as you might think you are? Are you certain that you don’t fall into the trap of tribalism when your interested are at stake? And if you are certain that you don’t, then you should be all the more willing to be challenged on that claim. If you’re true to your word, you should have nothing to worry about. But when confronted with rational argument that flies in the face of your beliefs, will you summarily reject it because it feels good to dismiss it? Or will you remember your motivation to read this book, and think, “Maybe I should apply that interest in knowledge right now.” Just a thought 💭

[@cherylalt101]

Rick Memmer Point taken.

[@benmzondo9081]

Fascinating interview really explains the current climate we find ourselves in.

[@tayeschoneveld3156]

You would really enjoy his book.....available on audio as well.

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

Interesting choice of words; did they discuss climate change too, by any chance?

[@scottielambert9312]

Because there is a war against intellectualism.

[@rbenne6]

10:25 "Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug."

[@advaitanundoo3587]

One dimension that's missing in this discussion, is how expertise has helped the rich gets richer by bias and prejudice, or even dogma in the scientific community, that pander to the enrich themselves. That's a big contributor. You can call that the lobbies.

[@dianabosch4044]

I'm a nurse and I have patient's and patient's family members arguing with me about their lab , radiology, or any kind of results. I have seen these people go toe to toe with physician's and their results too. I have heard them literally quote google. Most of them I just walk away from, cause you can't reason with them at all. But it is increasingly hard to deal with, cause these patient's refuse to follow physician's orders. I can no longer help these patient's.

[@josephtaylor6285]

If I had followed physicians orders I’d be on three different medications for one problem and on my way to more. Physicians give easy answers to get you out and ring the cash register. They are largely educated frauds.

[@zapazap]

A patient with a chronic illness can accrue a form of greater expertise in their condition than some G.P.s. . And don't get me started on practicing nutritionists. One in the clinic that monitors be did not know the difference between ketosis and ketoacidoses. Egad.

[@catherinegrun6729]

2020 : "I have seen a lot of videos on youtube. I am an expert. Flat earth is real".

[@doglady9334]

Absolutely have experienced this in both of my professions. Including at a small Environmental Company I worked for x2 yrs. Folks w no degree would look things up on the internet for their "expertise" without really understanding meaning or interpretation. It was shocking. I had to quit eventually it was so bad.

[@isabellakathleen4998]

"The pandemic of narcissism . . . well said. Once people pick a team they can not ever admit they are wrong, They can not ever readjust their prior beliefs." Insightful and brings understanding to why some dig in so deep despite evidence contradicts their beliefs. Well worth listening to Tom Nichols.

[@davidelias13]

I agree

[@Meekseek]

"Once people pick a team they can not ever admit they are wrong," bullocks.

[@kristinamelnichenko5775]

Awesome questions and answers! Thank you!

[@thistime2173]

Now this is journalism 😁😁😁

[@davidelias13]

Yes!

[@jimbutler1189]

I love the idea of interviewing an expert on why experts are now disregarded.

[@Dre2Dee2]

ANd he has the worst defense. "We're wrong all the time, so what? Sometimes I'm right" Thank you professional horoscope, I'll keep that in mind

[@ninajohnson6578]

Thank you for this discussion.

[@NickDanger0001]

"Advanced civilization." Not any more.

[@frany7493]

The "advance" is toward a very high "CLIFF". Many will die because even God said it. "My people die for lack of knowledge". This is a way to die. Ignore knowledge and expertise. Weather we are in a pandemic or not, it will lead to death. The pandemic makes it faster. This country is dying. These are the first noticeable severe symptoms.

[@kevink.7597]

@RavenPoe He was not elected. He won the presidency via the Electoral College. You remember... How a minority controls a country?

[@ep4115]

Not in the US

[@margosparkle4299]

In America we (not I) voted in a president who has no qualifications for the job. He doesn't know history, law, or anything else he needs to know in his position.

[@dozog]

You sometimes still find people who admit making a mistake voting for Trump. Almost always they claim that they were disappointed because the previous administration(s) did not accomplish enough (for their group?) And that they wanted a disruptor. I m happy to read that some people acknowledge their mistake, but sad at the same time. What did they expect the guy with no specific plans before the elections to accomplish, when it is obviously very difficult for an articulate politician to accomplish anything in this extremely partisan environment. (Healthcare being the prime example. Trump still does not want you to know his plans to make it "better and cheaper") And that is before you consider Trump's ultra narcissistic personality.

[@IamTwirling4Joy]

I don't even know legally what qualifications there are (if any) for the Presidency? If we had reasonable requirements, this wouldn't have been able to happen.

[@SaraVV]

We know why Trump won: the thought of HC winning was so terrifying that they voted for him. I am pretty much convinced that the biggest Trump supporter is the DNC :-D since they did everything in their corrupt power to prop up HC . Sanders would have been the candidate, if the ppl would have made the decision. 2020 .... Biden? really!?!? Who would vote for Biden? No ONE. The DNC picked him. They know very well that no one will vote for a crook like Biden or his creepy son. the DNC is Trump's biggest supporter...... So we will be stuck with Trump and HIS creepy son-in-law , Jared Kushner, for another 4 years. See the pharma Gilead ... and his involvement.

[@SaraVV]

@@dozog Did you actually vote for H. Clinton? I have many democratic friends.... and only one admits to it to have voted for her. I preferred Trump over Clinton.... I am from the South.... I know A LOT about her and her husband. I don't think she is ok mentally. I preferred Trump.... but I didn't vote. The ppl that surround him are all crooks. So I am not about to give my approval to the lesser of two evils.

[@dozog]

@@SaraVV I actually agree with a lot you say. Hillary was very much not my candidate, Biden is very much not my candidate (because he is too similar in too many ways with Trump). I think Bernie has a lot right, but I think the frame against him (socialist is perceived as communism in the US) is too strong. I would have preferred Warren. She is a professor, and a public servant with a track record in consumer protection. I don't believe Hilary is mentally as diminished as Trump is. Yet I would not trust her with much either. I also have no idea why the DNC has set up Biden as the candidate. Still, if it is between Biden and Trump, it's Biden 100% of the time because he will more likely have good people around him. Trump has made the GOP into a cult. No dissenting voices.

[@Tsnore]

In this age of the Internet, short attention spans, narcissism, and all the videos one can watch free online, many people watch a quick vid instead of taking the hours to read a book or journal to really explore an issue in depth. It is easier to see something and get instant verification of a bias and think you now have an answer or a command of an issue rather than to read or listen to experts and cogitate over the nuance and wealth of information said and written about a complex issue like abortion, gun ownership in America, foreign policies, or equality of access/opportunity in a society. As a case in point, look at the deterioration of vocabulary, spelling, basic grammar etc. in comment sections across the Net and in America a general ignorance of history. Nichols' book is on my buy next list.

[@nandorvass2550]

The same exact narcissism-driven dynamics happen in young education: parents are smarter than teachers, to the point where teachers can no longer educate and discipline the kids for fear that it meets parents' wrath.

[@wayneriley7367]

I’m a teacher. Started teaching 16 years ago. Even though they said they wanted PhDs to teach they paid me 27k per year. Ever since I have seen principals wanting to get all students thru. I guess a consequence from no child left behind. Lack of education has its effects.

[@cpann2000]

Mr. Riley I started teaching exact same time, in Colorado. Same thing... needed a PhD. Starting pay was low. Same trends I'm seeing about getting more recruitment and getting all students through the system no matter what. I call my department "the factory" now. The "diploma mill." I believe this is the philosophy everyone in the U.S. now. It's about money, and unfortunately, avoidance of litigation.... AND "How dare I know better what a student needs and how he/she needs to improve.... than what the STUDENT knows is best." Frustrates me no end, but I can see that lately I will not give any student a "bad" grade, like a C or less.... unless I can TOTALLY and UTTERLY prove why he/she deserves it. It's weird... but it's a protective mechanism. Hell, I've given all A's to about 35 students total for a semester.... whether they all deserve it or not. Not happy about it.... just a trend.

[@timkaldahl]

I have been teaching for 30 years, and have a masters degree. A general manager at Panda Express can earn more than I could if I was I'm the highest pay grade possible. Then conservatives complain about the socialist agenda in education. If they wan "capitalist " ideologies they need to be willing to pay capitalist wages. I also wish they would review what socialism is, because wanting to help others succeed and believing that people should be able to earn a living wage is not part of the description.

[@davidlangford9107]

Tim Kaldahl Proof read please.

[@JEiowan]

We have a culture with a lot of emotionally arrested development.... two year old mind/emotions in adult bodies. We don’t yet understand/own the disastrous results of very dysfunctional parenting in all our sociology-economic levels..... We don’t adequately support parents or the other systems that allow healthy, grounded development of children. Narcissism is indeed the result.

[@davidelias13]

Well said

[@JEiowan]

Michael Morrison - exactly! 💖✨💖

[@mattrussillo4587]

JEiowan Narcissism is no new phenomenon in this country!

[@vidguy007]

I am always amazed when someone who has no training or experience in a field tells those who do that they are wrong.

[@wayneurquhart1967]

My doctor told me that my blood test showed I was drinking too much. I told him its because of covid 19.

[@michaelgreeby2445]

Belief has been touted and subsequently rewarded as superior to knowledge. Thanks for presenting such a fascinating explanation of how we got to this situation.

[@curioushmm9027]

one more avenue to understanding what's going on in our country just now. thank-you.

[@suprgx472]

This doesn't apply to all Americans.

[@walterbo7687]

Probably at least at 50% or more

[@pollysey6577]

Few things apply to entire pop.

[@BIGBAROK]

@@walterbo7687 Ignorance is the world's biggest disease!!

[@jean-claudearsenault224]

No, but the malcontents are way louder, sad. The truth should be promoted by Government.

[@acedrumminman]

@DC Means I It only takes a few to ruin it for the rest...We won't have a Star Trek future, it will Mad Max....complete with Thunderdome...

[@BirdArvid]

4:04 THANK YOU!! I've been saying this for ages: people are very big on their rights in our US "democracy" but are very much less interested in the responsibilities which go hand-in-hand with being a part of a functional society, especially a "democracy". As soon as anyone asks Americans to think of the greater good or to think of how their behaviour impacts others, they cry: "Rights!!" "Freedom!!"

[@davidlangford9107]

Yes, most do, especially those who have experienced rights and freedoms, and have come to understand, that if those rights and freedoms are lost then all of what you write about becomes unattainable!

[@Sophiedorian0535]

How did we become that kid of society? Easy. Consumerism. We have all become customers, and have ceased to be citizens. Our inalienable rights are: 'a' life instead of Life, 'free choice' instead of Liberty, and 'continuity of satisfaction', instead of the Pursuit of Happiness. What had just happened to professor Tom Nichols? A customer happened. A customer is always right.

[@EricJennings444]

Perhaps we are in a new chapter of an old conflict between the "Age of Reason" and "Romantic" reaction to it. As a cultural historian (with a Masters but no Ph.D.), I've hypothesized many times in my classes that our culture is still fighting between these two powerful influences, with no resolution in sight. What was the famous quote? The Romantics want to smell a rose; the Enlightened want to dissect it.

[@wendajones9040]

Excellent interview with an amazing guest.

[@mbg3871]

Wonderful explanation. I wish everyone would watch this.

[@lucibjlb]

I saw this interview on TV. Although I love Amanpour and Company, I think Tom Nichols explanation of why people no longer trust the experts was pretty simplistic. The problem is way deeper than than his explanation.

[@lynnekaluzniak1894]

This is such an important discussion

[@davidelias13]

Yes, it is. We healthy and democratically participatory citizens must stay united and grow

[@wayneriley7367]

Hence the child in the White House!

[@not-so-smartaleck8987]

Most actual children are smarter, and/or have more common sense.

[@realazduffman]

Obama left the White House years ago. We have a MAN in there now, who acts like one.

[@therebelsoulpathwtevalee4973]

We have a crazy Pres that ENCOURAGES the behavior!!

[@Grandpa_Boxer]

Excellent interview! However, given what Trump is doing to our republic, should we not be more worried about the nuclear disaster unfolding in the White House?

[@tirusew]

America will never die if there are people like you educating us. Gotta save this republic

[@davidelias13]

I absolutely agree.

[@JamicianKid]

@Frederick Delius Legacy - And Far Beyond Sad, but you're 100 correct the ROT has gone to far to the core.

[@logaandm]

Drug, medical and food lobbies have done a lot to destroy confidence in science. - mostly because they didn't do science.

[@japonesa5186]

Narcissism is definitely a prominent wave in the wake of social media platforms and soap boxes.

[@urdude67]

“I am an expert telling you what’s good for you. You aren’t supposed to notice how I profit when you follow my advice.”

[@garybezner6774]

Administration's pandemic policy see no evil , speak no evil , hear no evil . See we are not evil . 80,000 say otherwise .

[@arewecrazyyet]

Now over 150,000

[@johndifrancisco3642]

A great interview. Christiane Amanpour is of a dying breed of journalists. I trust that anything that bares her name, including her reporters.

[@mindjoystudio6436]

It is very rare anymore for me to meet someone who is willing to evolve their ideas, admit they might have been wrong about anything, or shift any of their thinking. Its just terrible. It makes it hard to get along with people, family. I feel like I'm alone on the planet sometimes.

[@steveread864]

Power to you, Tom Nichols. Keep on talking sense, some of us are listening.

[@Claudia-cr2pm]

I've listening to this many times. Thank you!

[@mhartan]

The biggest shift is that the "team" now has a list of issues which every team member must adhere to in total. Studies support the fact lock-step attitudes are now in effect more than ever in the extreme. In the past we would support candidates based on general adherence to concepts and character, and there was not the same level of indoctrination. The result now is cult-like support of the team.

[@leeboriack8054]

We American's are short on attention and patience, the confines of quarantine are difficult as well as expensive yet necessary, BUT we are too spoiled to hold out. This winter we will face the consequences of not quarantining with a 2nd wave of CV19. Dear God, I pray I am wrong.

[@janeeley1604]

Wonderful interview. Thank you

[@lynnekaluzniak1894]

It’s not American, we have Canadians displaying that childish attitude too

[@lynnekaluzniak1894]

This expert needs to do a tour of all news networks right now, especially Fox “news” network

[@teresas8929]

Omg you are so righ.

[@DC-kx1qj]

I think it's a systematic, intentional, decades long brainwashing with a fair number of "leaders" orchestrating it. Its called the Southern Strategy.

[@seanfl33]

I saw one British person call Dr. Fauci a deep-state rat. The world has gone mad.

[@alysoneaston5539]

I choose facts

[@dozog]

@@Jj-gi2uv Science isn't perfect, not by a long shot, but it beats "just saying stupid shit" 100% of the time.

[@theshimmering2064]

Thank you for bringing us Tom Nichols. What an intelligent, articulate, and insightful man. Interviews like these help me stay sane in today's world. I need to watch this twice.

[@rjcharlie]

I don't need experts. I have a smartphone with internet and that makes me an expert in everything.

[@Kormac80]

To all that Nichols said I'd say, "Yes and people are lazy."

[@pollysey6577]

Fauci is a national treasure. It’s not blind reverence. He’s not perfect but he is a guiding light.

[@RosyOutlook2]

Polly Sey funny that you think he's a national treasure, and you also think it's not blind reverence, umm yes it actually is MSM bred blind reverence..

[@Meekseek]

" a national treasure" good luck with that.

[@c.a.t.732]

"Our tribalism became more important than facts". Bingo.

[@michelemaliano7860]

The majority of us do trust the experts. It’s just that the loudest voice doesn’t.

[@JohnSmith-il7jn]

When teenage Greta Thunberg is presented as an expert for Covid-19 on television, one must realize not all experts are created equal. Science is a process, not faith unchallenged.

[@GG-kt2uk]

She was not on CNN as a Covid-19 expert. CNN cleared that rumor up.

[@JohnSmith-il7jn]

@@GG-kt2uk She was there front and center during the CNN Covid-19 discussion with other experts. Why did they have a teenager on that discussion? Wasn't my dog available?

[@zapazap]

@@GG-kt2uk : What say you to John's reply?

[@dontpanic1812]

Great interview, Hari, as always. Informative, clear, pertinent, conscious of natural biases that limit conversations. Thank you. Keep up the great work and know many recognize the importance of how you do what you do. Regarding this 40-year trend of narcissism, Dr. Nichols is tuning us into, I've been writing for many months now that what we need is a movement of humility, an unassuming attitude that acknowledges what we know as individuals is limited and is not as great as what we can know when we allow ourselves to hear other people's ideas. I enjoy calling this attitude change by the broad term "Unassuming" for simplicity, for meaning and for how it reinforces our aversion to assuming anything-- the old "makes an ass out of you and me" thing of which we're all aware. I've even been applying it to what we already know with surprising results, leading to alternate solutions that went completely unexamined or were previously thought unworkable-- a different version on "thinking outside the box" that assumes we can do better-- for topics like the flying car, the food replicator, in how we view our entertainment and in how we approach cultural issues and our politics. I really enjoy the shift, as it opens up so many more possibilities and allows me to both strengthen and challenge convictions I hold. Humbleness used to be taught in our churches, used to be felt in civics, used to be valued by nearly everyone. Now, conceit is hip. Back in our day, we would've been shunned for being so arrogant, if we weren't slapped down for being such brats--it was our greatest fear that anyone thought we were conceited. At least the Valley Girls of old weren't aggressive in their outlook; they were never as narcissistic as to feel they needed to change the viewpoints of other people to validate their own existence. Things are so bonkers. Borrowing from Asian cultures, an unassuming attitude would clear up a lot of our discourse problems and add so much to our knowledge base, as to be the toehold we need to assume (hee-hee) the inclusive utopia we've been craving-- the path we were so close to realizing, until recently. A little "regressive" attitude change-- a return to what has worked and what used to work-- is all that's called for to set us back on course. Assuming you have all the answers isn't just annoying or impractical, it's dangerous to discovery and dangerous to freedom of expression, thought and speech. Nothing can be more important than recognizing the limits of narcissism and how it blinds us from helping ourselves, let alone the people around us. I thought all this was learned by reading Charles Schultz' comic strip and watching how destructive Lucy's ego was. I think it was "You know, the entire world doesn't revolve around you" by Linus and Lucy taking a moment to consider that, coming back with "You're kidding." Guess they took Lucy's outlook to mean that it should, rather than it doesn't. Cheers.

[@AlyAly]

The reason I don't trust some experts is the profit motive, doctors and hospitals are especially egregious. They order unnecessary tests, prescribe dangerous and unnecessary pharmaceuticals to make more money. Similar logic makes me sceptical of other experts!

[@aurorafairydreamer]

Excellent interview!

[@lisaproff8077]

My own daughger is doing this! This world is getting horrible

[@JGGarcia-kh8uq]

Tell me about it, it's beyond belief.

[@pedrolavigne9718]

I admit to be of the tribe who prefer reread Normand Baillargeon’s book: A Practical Guide in Intellectual Self-Defense: Find Your Inner Chomsky. On many issues there are totally contradicting opinions by experts. Vaccination, diabetes and medical use of statins are examples in the medical expertise field. I wish experts would be more nuanced or have the humility to say I don’t know about issues they don’t know. There is a huge gap between human knowlegde and individual knowledge and this goes also for some so called experts. Some medical doctors affirm that half of what they were taught at medical school will be disprooved during their medical carreer but they don’t know which half and there seems to be a very strong force of inertia in the medical colleges to spread revised expertise. When I hear a professional nutritionist claim on a radio interview that absolutely everything sold at the grocery store is healthy and the issue about healthy nutrition is only a matter of dosage and balance I have good reasons to be concerned. There are documented cases where monetary concerns take precedence over the best interest of patients. Ask biochemist engineer Ivor Cummins or irishman David Bobbett who is spending millions to help save lives from misguided widespread medical advice. In experimental science, one cannot proove anything but only disproove the null hypothesis of the experiment. There are oncologists (I know at least one) out there who would fail second year statistical exams and treat cancer patients with chemotherapy all day long. There are also tribes among “experts.”

[@gcprost]

This is a very interesting and alarming trend. I have seen this for many years in education. The field has been victimized by quacks and politicians who know nothing about education and who shun the voices of teachers and other experts.

[@TheRealMake-Make]

“Dangerous and childish...there’s been a pandemic of narcissism” sums up the entire movement.

[@TheJlook2000]

I totally agree - flounting the lockdown is a child's idea of freedom

[@pollysey6577]

I’m interested to read his book to see if resentment towards experts is also a factor. The idea that they earn huge salaries sitting inside vacuum sealed ivory towers, which of course isn’t the case. Experts are experts because they sacrifice much of their life taking in as much as they can.

[@ZipchesterVT]

Part of the issue is that you have experts in the same fields who come to different conclusions based on the same evidence. We should be able to hear from all sides of the issue to come to a conclusion. It’s just information after all. A big problem arises when some experts are intentionally excluded from the discussion because they disagree with other experts. This is not how you’ll get to the truth.

[@artistsComplex]

Hell yeah, thank you for this interview!!!

[@SuperBeth2011]

This is probably one of the most relevant topics/discussions today. It would be great if we could continue exploring the topic openly and with respect.