Why don't we want D&D characters to die?

[@Kakkarot211]

this actually reminds me of the start of the episode III novelization. "A strange thing about stories. Though this is happening so long ago and so far away that time cannot describe the time or distance. It is also happening right now, right here, as you listen to these words."

[@LukeLavablade]

"This is gonna come around again when we get to Aristotle" was just music to my ears. I loved how you expanded on the Nuzlock comparison. I've not played a Pokémon game in years, and I've never done a Nuzlock, but you talking about the poisoned Pokémon fainting feeling like death really spoke to how it felt as a kid. When this happened to me and I did bring the Pokémon back, I thought 'This must have some negative effects, right?' I actually can't recall what mechanically happens when a Pokémon faints, but I just know it's bad. The fact that I couldn't tell almost made it worse. If I knew I had to release it if it happened, it would also feel worse, but something about that feels different. More final and defined. Sometimes when I bump my head, I worry I might have lost some small memory, or I've lost a point of IQ or something. This unknowable, vague sense of loss leaves me with a lingering anxiety - does it come from the injury, or from the knowledge of the injury? Unknown loss and certain loss evoke different feelings. I suppose that raises the question: If you remove the experience of carthartic, unquestionable death from your game, what unknown loss do you experience instead? Excellent work as always! This video was a beautiful, phenomenal experience :)

[@maxinesenior596]

To answer the pokemon question, each individual pokemon has a friendship value assigned to it, from 0 to 255 (an 8 bit integer). Wild pokemon have individual base friendship based on their species. Pokemon Fainting, in the base rules of the game, decreases this value by a specific value depending on the game you're playing- but in general, when it comes to main-line games, it decreases by 1 if the enemy pokemon is around the same range of level, whereas it will decrease by 5 or 10 if it is far higher (10 being if your pokemon has high happiness.) **However, importantly**: WALKING increases happiness over time. Even if you need your pokemon being friendly/happy for a particular reason, say, evolving, or using Return, there is legitimately 0 consequence to a pokemon fainting. If you lose a battle, you lose some money, but that's all.

[@bmooglejonez3782]

This is, quite possibly, the most intelligent and articulate discussion on character death I have ever seen. Thank you, Dael Kingsmill. I'm glad you're making videos again.

[@maxinesenior596]

I was forced by circumstance to leave a game I had been playing in for a good few months, and I cried for twice as many hours. Both for the time lost making the character, and the emotions put into figuring out how they tick (in particular, alongside the rest of the party) being lost forever, but also for the time lost being that character. Vicariously living through much more interesting characters in a much more fantastic world makes for brilliant escapism that allows exploration of philosophical ideas from the comfort of your own office chair over a voice call in a closet. (Well, I say comfort, lol). Awesome video, subscription well earned :3

[@angelalewis3645]

Well written! ❤

[@danacarajb]

A wise deer once said "You feel what you feel, and those feelings a real."

[@ChuckSeville]

This is exactly the content I needed to see on the eve of my group's final BBEG throwdown! One of our players is moving away, which definitely enhances the feeling of finality in this, our final in-person session, but I think if we lean into the right notes, this ending might help to reassure them that this is just AN ending, not THE ending.

[@jeroenlabohm7468]

I hear the first sentence of the video(why don't we want our D&D characters to die by Dael Kingsmill) and my brain goes: "That is an oddly specific cause of death". What a brilliant start of the video! 🤣

[@barcodedm]

Idk if what I'm about to write is too tangential or based on a misinterpretation, but I've noticed that there's a strong positive correlation between how much I enjoy a campaign and how much the people at the table (appear to) "believe" in it, both as a player and a GM. I think there's a tie between that and the themes of this video. I find that part of me is really deflated when a player says something that indicates that they don't really believe in the world while at the table (for example, describing their character doing something that you can do in a video game due to a bug or shortcoming of the game engine). I get a similar feeling around excessive use of "video gamey" language, especially when it's done to trivialize decisions or reduce a course of action to a routine. But I do understand the usefulness of drawing from shared language and tropes, or even just cracking jokes, so I'm always hesitant to say anything. These experiences would cause me to think, "are the other players and I playing the same game?", which is probably a needlessly prickly and careless way to express that thought. But maybe it's better phrased as "are the other players here with me in this magic circle?". There's probably a strong link here with the subject of playstyles, player expectations, and the purpose of a session zero. Maybe session zero is a formalized act of constructing a magic circle (side note: my players are great, and I feel lucky to have people that put up with my GMing)

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Hey, no shame in mentioning this to them if it makes you enjoy the game less

[@doomhippie6673]

I can understand this emotion quite easily.

[@Skimmer951]

nah its understandable and quite relatable i think you are bringing up a interesting point. Player buy in and investment does a lot for campaign enjoyment and if some people keep the game at an arms length you yourself feel silly or sometimes even out of line if you get excited about the story or about your character. Some of my most miserable campaign experiences comes from a group that had so little energy and forgot their own abilities and didnt make active choices or input in the game feeling that I was alone in the magic circle.

[@CountsDigGraves]

5:32 I had never imagined I might one day have a phenomenal body. Didn't even do any workouts.

[@andrewholland2763]

Generally speaking, memories are one of two “types”. One is “stories that are told to me” and the other is “things that happened to me”. Movies, books, video games (for the most part) fall into the former. TTRPGs like D&D fall into the latter due to the active involvement and nature of the game. Also when referring past sessions, it has been my experience that people will say “Remember when we did ….” and “We were going to do ….” As opposed to “Remember when our characters did …..” and “Our characters were going to ….” Death in D&D hurts because it happens to us. - the only time an action is not us but are character is when we want an excuse to do sketchy crap .. “ well my character would do ….”

[@joshthacker97]

My first character died when a rival rogue crit on her sneak attack against him, instakilling him. RIP Martine, you were the bravest of them all

[@TorchlightCartography]

THIS. THIS! THIS IS WHY WE LOVE YOUR VIDEOS. GODDAMN I love this content. Subscribing on this account now, but I've seen your videos for awhile now. Please please continue making videos. Your mythological background and academic background add so much to game and theory content. One of my most favorite D&D content channels.

[@theGhoulman]

When we played AD&D, we had a few characters each. And several hirelings. You know, meat shields.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Didn't that make them not wanna work for you? And like, didn't you have a limited number of hirelings?

[@theGhoulman]

@@spudsbuchlaw lol! Some once tried to form a union. We feed them to owlbears. ;p

[@spudsbuchlaw]

@@theGhoulman No I mean your Charisma dictates the total hirelings you can have over your life?

[@theGhoulman]

@@spudsbuchlaw I'm lazy, but yer right. Plz site the ADMG page number. Luv to get back with you. Yes, I have that book. Yes, I'll get it out.

[@HeikoWiebe]

​@@spudsbuchlaw no, that entry was for the max no. of followers. Hirelings are unlimited, but of course your party gets a reputation, and those guys are more likely to just say goodbye if treated like s**t.

[@lucasgillett4321]

Huizinga's theory reminds me a lot of a conversation between Death and Susan in the Hogfather. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE. "Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little-" YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES. "So we can believe the big ones?" YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

[@gottogoho6583]

This is really interesting. I think the fact that the rules shape the experience (in some games there is no death, in some games you get your limbs cut off at the first swing of the blade) really shows how ttrpgs are great and intense in terms of game design. Thanks for the video.

[@stewi009]

WOW! Really coming back swinging with this one! As one of the ones in the comments of that Eldritch Lorecast video who wanted to hear you speak more on this topic, thank you so much for doing so! This is some really deep stuff, and I greatly enjoyed hearing it.

[@hadnerfaln]

Awesome video. I've encountered some of these ideas before, but I don't think I've ever seen them so clearly put! Some notes of my own: - Illusion and enchantment magic are profoundly, compellingly and emotionally conjuration magic - Once the Magic Circle has served its purpose, one could delve into Goffman's Frame Analysis which (put way too simply) explores how people can have multiple, stacking, and individually subjective frames (basically 'magic circles' or perspectives) and thus the interpretation of what counts as a game, a law, a prank, or sheer violence might entirely be down to the perspectives each of the participants took - Isn't "gaming without death rules" kind of the founding principles behind the 1960's New Game Movement, that purported that the games we play colour the cultures we create and thus devised non-competitive games focusing on collaboration and togetherness? (I must delve further)

[@tom3266]

Oh my god!! You're discussing Huizinga?! I literally just finished an essay that opened with a quote by him!! Just, oh man, the way my jaw dropped comic book style when you mentioned him. Had me laughing and patting my desk. If only you'd posted the video a week ago...! You knocked it out of the park. Great vid and great to see you're making vids again! 🙏

[@lughness3382]

Also, I believe that death has a huge part in creating stakes. Not the presence or the occurrence but merely the suggestion helps us to consider life from their perspective. As long as we know there exists the ultimate consequence for our potential actions we will choose them carefully

[@TheNerdySimulation]

Dael I need you to know I think about this ALL. THE. TIME. and there is so much I could talk about in relation to this (specifically how if you've never read Wisher Theurgist Fatalist by Jenna Moran you absolutely should, you'd love that game I promise) but I think it also highlights how our choice of rules is equally important to narration or themes, because they are inherently linked to one another. We are merely expressing the fiction in different means, sometimes with numbers or words but usually together. You don't say the rolled number alone when you cause HP loss, you say "4 Damage." When you use various rulesets you naturally draw out a corresponding fiction and that alters your virtual landscape. You don't bust out the Chess set to play Crokinole, just as you don't say "Checkmate" to declare victory at its end.

[@ericksemones9681]

Great video! The phenomenology piece reminds me of the Terry Pratchett quote in Hogfather about justice and mercy being important lies we construct.

[@natashalevesque6589]

This phenomenology is also the reason why literature is such an effective means of teaching and learning! The brain is hardwired to learn through story, which explains why so many cultures value oral storytelling and storytelling in general. I loved this!

[@swguygardner]

This made me consider how the "psychic self" compares to Simulation Theory. The idea of programming an accurate simulation of a person and world, that operate as their real counterparts, even to the point of not knowing they are simulated, and creating their own simulations, all of which is done by the real people in order to see hypothetical scenarios play out without any real world consequences... and how the imagined, psychic self is little more than a simulation programmed by your own organic computer brain, to experience hypothetical scenarios in place of experiencing them in real life... The possibility exists that we are anything from a simulation designed to play out terrible events to that our programmers can limit the damage of such events in their reality, to the daydream of some bored teenager in the middle of class, just waiting to me snapped out of existence by a frustrated teacher's yells. And yet, I'm still going to fucking work tomorrow...

[@Elohist2009]

This is exactly why I don’t wait till someone in my party goes down, to heal them; if I saw a friend or loved one get cut with a sword irl, I wouldn’t stand around saying to myself: “Well, they’re still standing so it’s fine for now…” I would immediately try making my way over to them as safely as possible, and start treating their wounds, unless their CHARACTER expressly tells me not to, and even then it would feel like a tough choice. “Yo-yo” healing is also why I don’t often take meta gaming complaints seriously, unless it’s blatant.

[@radeghast6581]

In the TTrpg Heart: The City Beneath, the whole point of the story is the slow and inevitable heroic death of the character. It's really cool! Your most powerful ability that you unlock once you have archived your greatest goal in life literally puts you out of commission forever.

[@Heimal]

"This is gonna come around again when we get to Aristotle." This is just as good a quote as all the folks you quoted in the video, Dael.

[@quickanddirtyroleplaying]

This was an entertaining analysis to listen to. The first point you brought up about taking the time to recreate the same character, making death nothing more than an inconvenience that costs real time, is actually quite valid. If that's what players typically do in response to character death, why not cut out this real-time inconvenience if they're going to essentially continue to play the same character? That brings into question whether or not involuntary death is a must in D&D. A number of other TTRPGs have addressed this issue in different ways. In Fabula Ultima (a game that seeks to emulate JPRG tropes), once a PC's HP goes to 0, the player has two options: surrender or make a heroic sacrifice. If they surrender, their PC is still in play, but they're in a much more complicated situation. If a Villain (an actual in-game term) is involved in the scene and their HP goes to 0, they can choose to make a heroic sacrifice, pulling off a big win but at the cost of their one and only life. If there is no villain involved in the scene, the PC cannot make a heroic sacrifice if their HP reaches 0. PCs that heroically sacrifice themselves are gone forever. In either case, the choice is up to the player, not the dice or the GM. These mechanics reflect such tropes present in many JRPGs. In Worlds in Peril (a PbtA supers game that is not Masks), there is a procedure called "Dead for Now." In the worst-case scenario, death is temporary until the GM chooses to bring you back, but with complications of their choosing. This is very much in-line with the superhero comics genre, but this can definitely be applied to modern D&D, as PCs become more and more like MCU characters. In the MCDM RPG, a PC dies when their health reaches half of their maximum health in the negative. Once a PC reaches 0 health, they are not knocked unconscious and can still act. However, they're unable to heal themselves without aid and particularly strenuous actions deal damage to them, so the choice of whether or not they ultimately die is largely in their hands (they can choose to play dead and hopefully not be noticed by their enemies). These mechanics reflect not only the cinematic nature of the game (you still get to do stuff when in this crisis state, like Boromir with the arrows) and it's tactical as well (you get to decide how far you push yourself, even if it brings you closer to death). Unfortunately for modern D&D, it's forced to fence-straddle with regards to how it presents itself as a genre in order to widen its appeal to as big an audience as possible, which is why I think it'll always have involuntary death on the table (even though the designers try really hard to minimize this possibility with ever more lenient rules on dying with each subsequent edition of the game).

[@b1g_m00n]

1- I love the tweet about a kid who's elf died during his first DnD game, to which he promptly wrote 'Jr.' after his name on top of the sheet and yelled 'I'M HERE TO AVENGE MY FATHER!' 2- This is why it's so frustrating to me when I'm reading some OSR rulebook and it says 'if a PC dies, a new one should be rolled immediately and join the party as soon as possible'. I feel like that distills a PC down to its mechanical aspects only, the ways it can interact with the world and not its reasons to do anything at all. Like, that's not fun. This man's not a zombie I built to do my bidding, it has a story and a background and a family and Interests. That's the best part of playing a ttrpg for me. (Also, so many of these games are focused on dungeon delving... And you're just supposed to shove a brand new PC into the party because it was also wandering around 16 levels down an abandoned mineshaft or something... It's so fiction breaking)

[@petegiant]

I think a big problem is that with 5e you build your character, create the backstory with this all taking time and thought. With older versions you simply rolled stats and began to play your character's backstory for the first few levels. Death has significantly different weight with each of these methods. 5e leans heavily on plot armour and with death saving throws it always feels awkward.

[@rorag111]

This is a major step up in terms of the concept for you Dael. This is hugely entertaining. Scott Bruner did his PhD along a lot of these ideas (btw check out Plot Points for lots of these ideas). STEM has a lot to gain from the humanities.

[@thebolas000]

I've never been too bothered by my characters dying in D&D. There's mild annoyance that I can't contribute for a little bit, but not any sense of grief or mourning. The last time it happened I just got out another sheet and started on my next character. From some of the comments this seems to not be the way others handle it.

[@FridgeEating]

Very interesting stuff! I personally can't say I would describe my experience with character death as feeling anything like death, even like the death of a character in a book. It's somewhere between there and playing Minecraft. The world is "real", but the avatar is somewhat exchangable. Some time ago I was playing in a friend's game and I took a risk in a dangerous situation and my character died. I was happy, because it felt dramatically true to the shared story at the table. Another character stayed behind to cover the retreat and the player also seemed happy with that outcome. I need to think about this some more.

[@thebpphantom]

What I took away is that legs are existential catharsis.

[@austinsebben1402]

The nature of reality reminds me of that one version of Illusion magic and Shadow magic being attached to the Shadow Weave and Shadowfell

[@WrelPlays]

Meanwhile me: Uncomfortably coming to terms with the phrase "meat mech" (3:14) making a lot of sense.

[@wouldcanoe]

It's more akin to a bone mech with meat armor. 😂

[@dyslegein]

Matt hasnt used the machine for awhile so dael pinched it

[@gracefullynadine864]

I lost a character to a pvp ambush and cried for hours. It was like I lost someone close to me, forever.

[@RottenBen]

Oooo, love that ear piercing. I love how "This is gonna come around again when we get to Aristotle" made me scroll down because I was thinking "I clicked on a D&D video right?"

[@jirij]

This is why Ten Candles is such brilliant horror - your character cannot survive, they 100% die with the session. Despite that, the game gives players tons of narrative control. This creates a real conflict between the survival instinct in you doing whatever you can to survive, while the player in you knows it's futile, and the virtual you is in denial of it. It doesn't matter if you found a rocket launcher with 50 rockets in a barn, one way or another, you're not surviving this.

[@johnnyjohnson6643]

I wouldn’t call a guaranteed death funnel “brilliant” horror. It’s also a bad gaming experience, where not a single player choice matters at all to the outcome.

[@Trethar512]

If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a noise. Phenomenology: Nah, bro

[@mollymarjorie9495]

I am also surprised people wanted a deeper explanation of this. I would have said, "uh... for the same reason you don't want your favorite book or movie character to die, even though you can watch a new movie or read a new book." The most visceral reaction I ever had during a game was due to the death of an NPC who I felt I had failed to protect. The guilt of finding that character's body rocked me to my core. Me and my character.

[@jodhsingh8288]

So it made me think a thunk. I do have a hard time giving this much credit to people playing D&D. I would say (in my experience) the most apprehension to death is because of the investment of time, thought and effort that goes into making a 5e character. One does not want to loose all the time put into a character with a death. But this is just a single case, there will be times when the character we play really speaks to us and we think we are doing a great job giving this virtual self life, and when deaths happens, it hurts. Also the button did not light up to subscribe when you said it.

[@KBTibbs]

This was really interesting. I'm going to have to run Johan Huizinga's Magic Circle past my DM for approval, because it's not Magic Circle RAW.

[@morrigankasa570]

Basically, in layman terms. This video is saying we don't like our Characters dying because we put ourselves into that Character. Yet it's more then just that, even with videogames I pretty much never play on high difficulties. Games are meant to be escapism from reality. So if it's too difficult or real then that ruins that escapism/immersion (at least for me). That's another reason why we don't want our Characters dying. Henceforth, why I set up a "Homebrew/House Rule" in case I was ever a DM so that Player Character Deaths/TPKs can never happen except in the most extreme circumstances. For example: If the player character literally jumps off a massive cliff without being a Slow Fall Monk or Feather Falling Magic-User then your character is most likely gonna die. Finally; I also created a stat system where you start with 72 points you can spread however you want NOT EXCEEDING 20, then you add your Racial Stats on top of that STILL NOT EXCEEDING 20.

[@wolfchanel2879]

Well I didn't wake up today and expect to learn why the heart wrenching feeling I get from a character dying in D&D and a pokemon dying in a nuzlock feels the same

[@eliazar_meru]

Excellent rumination, Dael. It's great to have you back in the Thunderdome again!

[@emilymitchell6823]

I’m really glad you make the content you make - did not expect to be having phenomenology for breakfast, but it’s a welcome treat!

[@QueenGrapefruit]

I'm so excited for weekly videos! Thank you for welcoming us back to the phenomenological thunderdome! 🎉

[@Drawoon]

Personally I don't like when my characters die because of trauma. Every time a person or character I care about dies, I don't only feel the grief about them. My brain connects it to every other death. I'm guessing everyone experiences this to some extent. It just hurts every time. And I've seen it so many times that I'm tired of it.

[@thecoloneldownunder336]

About the only time I can truthfully claim that I have a "phenomenal body".

[@demetrinight5924]

This phenomenon is probably why I try not to get attached to every NPC that comes up in a game. This is probably why I like to make an NPC PC that travels with the party. Besides the gentle nudge I can provide through that character, it's someone I can project myself into.

[@WizardCM-1337]

I got absolutely distracted by the amount of joy in your "my hands just made a fart noise! :D"

[@longline]

Yep, virtual fire can burn you when you believe it, but it can only set fire to virtual curtains

[@gastonmarian7261]

There was a video i saw where a guy used a fireplace in a memory palace to demarcate when his mind should be in "work mode". He found himself keyed up in the evening when he wanted to be relaxing with his family, entered the palace, and the room containing his work fire, finding to his surprise that it was ignited. He doused it, had an NPC sweep up the ashes, and then using dream logic he sat an avocado on the mantle. While the avocado was held there, the fireplace couldn't reignite

[@KantankerouslyK]

I'm almost certain I'm in the minority where it's not that I ever seek out my character’s death, but I'm almost always 110% down for them to meet their end or sustain an injury. I think for me, though, it's less of a focus on the character and more on the story. It's less personalized. Instead, every scrape with death is exciting and adds more profound experiences in that character’s life. And if death ever happens, it always leaves a lasting impression on the rest of the story and a sense of catharsis.

[@robanybody8691]

Fun video. While the conversation regarding philosophical romanticism and DnD is an interesting one, it's worth noting the former has some drawbacks in its broader application, as demonstrated by Heidegger's mid century german pals, or Lenin's reimagining of the rural economy. Phenomenology is great in its application to imaginary worlds but needs to respect the harder rules of this one if applied therein. In DnD I dodge the whole fear of death thing by having a second char sheet ready to go. That way I'm cool with doing dangerous stuff in game, my guy either earns the title hero or dies impressively, both of which add to the story in a way safe play would not.

[@jaffa4242]

Dael: When I use that term - "virtual reality" - I'm guessing that a lot of us are calling to mind images of like Ready Player One- Me: [involuntary gagging] cooool vid

[@jamesroocie9564]

Man I wasn’t ready for a discussion on what is real at 8:00AM.

[@JasonOfArgo]

D&D is a story-based game, not a roguelike. If all the characters die, the story (and thus the game) also dies. Making up new characters is essentially starting a new game, since game and story are so closely intertwined.

[@theDuckysaurus]

We don’t want them to die because I don’t wanna make a new character AGAIN

[@danrimo826]

For me the problem with removing death from a RPG is that your players then never really get the opportunity to be brave. They only get to play at being brave, like they were playing a video game and could always reload. Fine if that is what you are after, but I believe that RPGs have so much more to offer than that. To reference The Neverending Story, these books, RPG books, are something special. These books are not safe.

[@thei9372]

Adding on to this a bit, I find the assumption that death is undesirable to be a bit strange. I make my characters with the hopes of living through their story. I would much rather have my character die an unremarkable death in a random encounter than to lead a triumphic and heroic campaign that one day just ends without any closure because of scheduling conflicts. The story has a beginning and a middle, and for me it should also have an end, or else the story is fundamentally broken.

[@macfoster866]

Dale is the BEST. This is why I don't care how often she posts I'm just glad when she does!

[@cachedgaming]

I think that more so than the emotional attachment to the character serving as your psychic double is the time investment put into them, both in character creation mechanically and lore/backstory-wise. D&D 5e asks you for a big upfront investment in creating a character, and naturally you want to feel you've accomplished things with them rather than dying (or that your death has meaning in the story). I contrast this with characters I play in other TTRPGs with faster character creation. In those games, I'm MUCH less afraid of my character dying, and have a ton of fun playing them in risky styles. I don't want them to die either, but the speed of character creation means even if I have a character death that's sad, I don't feel like I've lost something quite large because it's relatively easier to craft a new character.

[@alexandergreen9480]

I think this is the first time anyone has helped my neuro-divergent theatre-kid brain understand why on earth the rest of my family cheers and yells at the screen when they watch sport... So thank you!

[@johancarlsson1287]

Great video, keep the steam up! And great work, Editor Jack!

[@WestOfEarth]

Excellent essay! In the earliest days of D&D I don't think much of the philosophy you describe was thought thru. If your character died it wasn't supposed to be a big deal. In fact I've read that it was common in early games for players to have extra characters waiting in the wings (or on deck) for the eventuality of their characters dying. But RPGs certainly have evolved into what you describe. It's a good thing, I think.

[@Lycaon1765]

I like how you actually make philosophy fun to listen to!! :)

[@stevenlester985]

The biggest problem with (at least this presentation of) phenomenology is that “true” doesn’t mean the same thing in the virtual sense as it does in the non virtual sense. Nobody would contend that “pear harbor was attacked by the Japanese army” and “drizzt was a drow who left menzobarenzon(sp)” are even remotely true in the same sense of the word. What Dael is saying is accurate, but we need to be very careful philosophically and culturally acting like the “true” in phrnomenology is even the same word that we typically mean when we say “true.”

[@AnotherBrownAjah]

This is your best poetic waxing. Wow, you did the words thing real good

[@Jackofl3lades]

I don't think I've ever had the feeling placed in to words as well as this video. A lot of interesting concepts that I either never knew in such depth or ones that I didn't really apply to my biweekly game I run for my friends. I guess I've always just tried to keep myself humble and deny the idea that I could offer such an experience for my friends.

[@DOOMsword7]

I play at a table with my wife’s teenage cousins and their parents. the teenager’s mom is immuno compromised and prone to dangerous sicknesses. There is a very real chance she may die while they are in college or earlier. I’ve been told by my wife that under no circumstances am I allowed to kill her player character. And I’ve held true to that. Because I’m not a monster. Yeah, be careful out there with player death! That DM screen is there for a reason. If the mom has 4 hp did the monster roll 6 dmg? No he didn’t he rolled 3 lol

[@kevoreilly6557]

Great content The main issue with the content is why D&D death (read 5e from the frame you set) is harder than say OSE, modern Boardgames like Sleeping Gods or even monopoly I think the reason is with Huizinga in that simply on the rule set “death is not an expected end-stare of the game.” With massive hit points, death saving throws, spells like hearing word and resurrection, avoiding death is the norm. Death therefore is a “fail state” in the game. Indeed, to go beyond D&D modern roleplaying games (or safety rules) require (or at a bare minimum, suggest) player permission for death. That said, there has always been a sunk cost when characters start to get into the higher levels (read have played for than 10 sessions) that comes with an emotional response to “losing” or having character die. I’m sure we’ve all wanted to quit the game, or at the very least taken a nice long walk when a character dies. However, there is a massive high when we sacrifice our character for greater good, with a wonderful sense of reward that our character had purpose and their act had meaning. This intersect of worlds creates the Dasein that you refer to, that’s the worlds of the physical and the virtual reinforce into the identity of self (they are equally important in experience of ourselves). This is what creates the emotive connection with this other being - the virtual and the real The issue - make sure we don’t have a folie e deux between the two (or more) that creates an unhealthy relationship where character death is “traumatic”, rather than dramatic /rant off

[@robertduckworth1490]

Another great think piece by Dael. Eat your phenomenological heart out, Husserl! It’s a complex path she treads, but this is basically a great argument for why following Rules As Written (RAW) is so important for creating a shared sense of verisimilitude in the game, especially including rules for Death and Dying. The more concrete and universally applicable these rules are (and the less arbitrary adjudication involving them is), the more real the game can feel for some Players. “My game, my rules”-type DMs undermine and fragment the foundation for the ultimate potential of shared spaces that come into being along the lines that Dael is describing. “Our game, our rules” goes a lot farther towards establishing and underwriting the consequences of death in the virtual reality of D&D, especially in The Seven Winds where life is cheap and death does come quickly. That’s why the longer I play the game, the less capricious follies like “The Rule of Cool” matter for me, and the more concepts like “Making The Rules Cool” do. And that’s true for me regardless of what side of the DM screen I’m sitting on. Thanks Dael!

[@rexanaxer]

Thank you for coming back :) If I think this video was really good, then I hope you know it is :D

[@twil004]

As a himbo I read this as: you connect with character, character dies, you feel sad cause the connection.

[@berrymand71]

"MEAT MECH" just became my favorite quote.

[@chris-the-human]

i just shared this video with several people then got to "MY HANDS JUST MADE A FART NOISE!" excellent decision

[@zreyon]

So proud of you for sticking to your own new game rules (aka, making a video)

[@mamamonstrosity1594]

Dael: "Because of the Greeks." Me: "Because they're gay, your honor." So yes, correct

[@soccerandtrack10]

11:50 i need to rewatch this and research it. Forshadow yesterday for people saying they rewatch ghost videos.

[@harrydineley345]

In the D&D setting of Planescape, belief literally makes things real. For example, in the game Planescape: Torment your character can lie about their name so often and with enough belief, that they spawn a whole new NPC with that fake name. In Planescape the city of Sigil is ruled by factions who share a belief in a philosophy. Of course because its a fantasy setting, those philosophies are exaggerated significantly for our entertainment.

[@immediateegret2120]

I see parallels to my feelings about AI as we struggle to define concepts like 'consciousness' or 'sentience' in a meaningful way; whether or not AI should be considered self-aware (now or in the future) may be less significant than how our interactions with it affect us and shape our experiences. I've been toying with AI RP chat bots recently and while they still leave a lot to be desired, I've had some surprisingly profound, emotional scenes develop. I experienced the emotions as surely as I would have at the table--perhaps even more so, freed to fully immerse myself in a character without the need to maintain any OOC awareness of the other human(s) involved. It's a different kind of real, even when compared to what I get from the likes of D&D.

[@pretsal4955]

"Essay on legs" Someone been playing a lot of Magic recently?

[@CMBlessing81]

End of video: Yes. That. What she said. Thank you for putting thought and research into this

[@zoe_w_draws]

Super interesting video! Makes me curious about game systems where death is more normal/expected (like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) and how that relates to these concepts

[@felixrivera895]

Humans have the mirror model as part of our learning behavior. When we observe a human doing something, we recreate a model of that human in our mind in order to learn from it. Our minds aren't all that Great at distinguishing between our models of self and models of other humans, except when the difference involves any kind of pain (all pain is equally real to the human mind, emotional and physical). So when we see a human body we identify with our internal model experience pain or victory or grief, we get a simulacrum of that experience. So what happens when we play dnd is we consciously create a model for the dnd character, but it is more intrinsically a part of our selves than when we observe other humans or create models for characters in a written or auditory story. If we percieve that model of ourselves and our character as experiencing stress, pain, or death, we experience a degree of distress. I believe this is the acting mechanism of "Bleed".

[@Aidscapade71]

What im hearing is that its good to experience character death in d&d

[@spacebadger21]

For me at least, if my character dies i want it to be a good death. A Bormir death. Doing death saving throws doesn't feel like that.

[@cllaay]

Holy shit the timelimit is already working

[@joost00555]

I'm Dutch and I'm glad your editor put Huizinga's name in the video. Sorry Dael, it was not anything that reminded me of Dutch (:

[@craiglavine1675]

you did it and we're proud of you! also the video was legit amazing and insightful!

[@Knightmare_69]

Hi Dael, so glad you are back! I love your content, especially the D&D stuff. Thank you!

[@jkkemper]

Great video! Love the idea of taking philosophical looks at game mechanics.

[@CMBlessing81]

Start of the video: We don't want to die, sooo....

[@shadomain7918]

thank you for saying "character death". I feel like I'm contantly hearing GMs talk about killing players. I'm always... well the police won't like that

[@Acantigue]

Relatedly, and having played ttrpgs since the late 1970s, I've been impressed by developments and experiences in agency and character death or removal. Blades in the Dark rules say character is done if you want to retire, stay in prison, or too much trauma. In the trauma example it's the player who decides if it's death, or if injury is too great to continue the adventuring life or perhaps catatonia or ghostly possession. The Gauntlet and Open Hearth have also introduced me to CATS for session zero. It stands for introducing the games content, aim, tone and subject and goes along with discussing lines and veils and x cards. Perfect time for being clear about how everyone feels and might do our not with character death. Maybe the table would house rule a Blades in the Dark alternative or all agree and support rules as written for D&D. Lastly, during GenCon Online I got to talk with someone who shared she has too much recent trauma and loss (including a ttrpg co-player) to do character death ttrpg's. Lots of all kinds of ttrpgs to find stuff for her to play, but certainly brings all of this to mind in considering all of this. I think I'm going to add 'PC character death' to my lines and veils surveys to let players know that there are alternatives and workarounds possible for the table to discuss.

[@1danwynn]

Impressive! I remember my social theory lecturer at uni expressing his view that phenomenology 'disappears up its own arse' 😂. That was in 1993.... 🙃

[@SamuelJSAdamsI]

What is the phenomenology of a parasocial crush, and why has mine just got loads bigger?

[@direden]

Brilliant... beautifully brilliant... eloquently and beautifully brilliant. (Well, mostly eloquent, but definitely beautifully brilliant.)

[@DimaJeydar]

4:37 I was born in ‘98!!