Why Europe is Reinstating Conscription

[@floppa9415]

As an Austrian who has gone through this nonsense I gotta say this : I get why we need it but if a country reintroduces it, they need to make 100% sure that its time well spent and that young people doing their service get fairly compensated for their time in the military. We in Austria have neither. I got payed around 300ish € per month for over 40h per week of service (even more ~ 60h during basic training). Thats less than a third of our countries minimum wage. And after it I felt even less prepared for a war then before. Most of us shot maybe a total of 60 cartridges down range and we spent most of our time doing menial stuff like (and I'm not joking) shoveling gravel for a new walkway at the barracks, trimming bushes and watching paint dry. All of it of course while our NCOs stared holes into the sky.

[@mikel9138]

in Greece we get payed 8€ per month.

[@Kalimdor199Menegroth]

This is exactly how it was in my home country Romania during the communist period. Back then military service was mandatory, and every guy had to take it. But it didn't feel like a military service at all, you would get 'trained' for like 6 months but the rest up to 2 years were spent digging trenches, participating in the annual harvest, used as construction labor. All for free for the most part.

[@Thissentenceisfalselosers]

Yeah, like you said in principle it is an admirable thing to defend your country. The problem is, I just don't trust either the system or the people in it to defend me in turn.

[@xxjr8axx]

@@Kalimdor199Menegroth Sounds like you were forced construction workers that just so happened to handle weapons as well.

[@Dread_2137]

@@xxjr8axx welcome to communism, it was like that in every russian puppet state until 1991

[@avakio19]

Crazy how countries making it impossible for young people to get a home or job somehow expect them to enter military service.

[@chi15800]

'countries' are merely an accomplic to this. it's the corpos and the billies that brought this - and the hidden trillies behind them - and the hidden lizards behind those - and the hidden aliens behind the lizards and finally the God behind the aliens behind the lizards. Yes - god exists and he is evil

[@StavrosFresh]

THIS! Finally someone said the obvious... In Greece it's strictly obligatory and young people rn are struggling to literally survive.

[@queenieman6883]

an interesting read is Michael Hudsons work on bronze age babylonian debt cancellations (book titled 'forgive them their debts') as a means to recruit for the army way back when.. its fascinating how similar we still are societally to that phenomenon yet a cant see any mass debt cancellations happening in this day and age as a means to recruit LOL

[@jonathanodude6660]

why are you acting as if military service doesnt come with a "home" and a "job"?

[@ashtonx]

This, moment war breaks out i'm leaving the continent. I have nothing to protect here nor love for country who kept putting me down.

[@somerandomdudeable]

It's easy for older people to support conscription when they're not the ones being drafted

[@Damychad]

That's a fact

[@homosexualbiologicalmale--3]

they are old anyway so send the old ones or the robots only .... if old people speake rude then put that ones to go there

[@Pidalin]

They already were and they just wish young people had to go thru the same shit they had to survive, they are just evil.

[@daviddaley6846]

When you have countries where the young will never be able to afford to buy a house but force them to protect everyone else.

[@Pidalin]

@@daviddaley6846 yeah, in these days, you take a mortage and you expect that your kids will take it after you because you will not pay it before you die 😀

[@dariusalexandru9536]

Gouverment makes people life hard. Also gouverment:Why you don t want to die for us ?

[@antoinefdu]

Young people saw how we treat our veterans. No wonder they're not too keen on joining the army.

[@aikighost]

Young men should not under any circumstances agree to fight for countries that actively deride and hate them. Eff that noise.

[@SimonMester]

Yep. Antagonized and hated by the country, institutions, politics and 80% of all wealth in the hands of old people, what are you fighting for, exactly?@@aikighost

[@metal_pipe9764]

​@@aikighost but what if it's against China?

[@aikighost]

@@metal_pipe9764 it wont be. China have too many of their own problems, they are currently having a near total economic collapse and within a generation a demographic collapse. The paper tiger is done for at least 50 years and with any luck when they come back the CCP will have ended its reign.

[@zeffy._440]

that and young people see how evil Europe is and want no part in it. Just one look at Palestine and the hypocrisy of Europe is enough to make anybody with a brain not want to fight

[@soldatox3019]

If you want people to fight for their country, make a country worth fighting for

[@melancholic_purple1450]

then china and russia are better counries than germany and france ?

[@ScareWest]

No, they have national pride in their countries. Their leaders continuously praise and want to better there nations. Yes can argue they don't but national pride is very important. As many of the comments have mentioned, why should young people fight for a country that is not giving them a livable life (home, living wage etc...).

[@MrBurnsExcellent]

In some cases yes in some not, im not siding with ether country just theses days mostly Russia there are some positives apart from the many negatives we know about.@@melancholic_purple1450

[@RWKIN]

Lol, Russians fight even without having such a country, and they could come for you also.

[@loafoffloof3420]

@@RWKIN I am sure the russians are still fighting because of conscription, propaganda, and money. All of russia's recruitment videos is "serve 6 months, get money for killing soldiers and get bonuses whenever you take territory" and that is what a lot of russian citizens say why would they join the conscription and or voluntarily if asked about it in interviews. THIS is ESPECIALLY the case in eastern russia and well into siberia's indigenous tribes. When you hear from russian, wagner, z-army POWs, and citizens on the street 75% of them would fight solely for the money, 5% of them fight because they believe in the bureaucracy, 15% of them fight because they were beaten on the streets and forced with jail time if they do not join the army conscription. See for interviews with russia: "1420 by Daniil Orain" for street interviews, "Rick The Ukrainian" for one-on-one POW interviews, "UATV" for face-to-face interviews with POWs, and in general search up anything to do with russians fighting

[@dorianodet8064]

I mean, why not, but let's make it fair then, if it come to a vote : Mandatory conscription for young people but pushed back retirement age and extra taxation on old people to pay/compensate for it. This way everyone chip in. Let's see how keen old people are on nationnal security then

[@gluipertje]

Hell yeah, that actually does sound unironically like a good idea

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

Haha, suddenly GB and DM readers wont be so fond

[@doyouwanttogivemelekiss3097]

Old people won't be concerned about pushing retirement age back. They either already are retired or will be retired before such a law passed. The ones who are pissed are people in their 40's and perhaps 50's.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

i'm already consider joining the military, so long im given a paycheck by the tax payer's old-asses then I am in.

[@mindyourowneffingbusiness]

Dont speak ill of the old folks, they are busy hoarding houses. 🤑🤑🤑🤑

[@SuperLusername]

Young European men's opinion on conscription has nothing to do with with their attitude towrds military and everything to do with with their attitute towards the system they are supposed to protect. Every man will protect his home put his life on the line as long as it is a home worth protecting. Failing economy, new crisis starting before the previous one ends, low fertility coupled with aging population resulting in ever increasing taxes, expectations to never be able to afford to retire, the legal marriage system dissuading most men to risk (yes risk) getting married and have children, jobs requiring more years of experience than you have been alive and academic education for every stupid menial routine job one can think of... Would YOU protect the system that obviously doesnt protect you?

[@lynne4499]

То есть ты спокойно отдашь свою страну иноземцам?

[@ASS_ault]

Literally no one's gonna ask you will you do it or not.

[@FuckFeminists]

Actually, conscription is fundamentally wrong, in any country, at any state of development.

[@paulinotou]

Well these European men live in a democratic society, so if they have a problem with they vote the fucker out. low fertility and aging population... Isn't that less of the government and more of the liberation of not having children? Thats a societal problem. The system not only has protected you, its done good enough to where you obviously don't know what a system that doesn't protect you looks like

[@axiosw0774]

​@@lynne4499 Да, не кто в западе не будет воевать за ценности которые не касаются парней Не кто не имеет семью, детей, жену, везде феминизм и женщины являются вышим сортом - пусть они и воюют За что должны пацаны умереть? Когда система девушек ценит только, вот и давай идите воевать

[@danielschauffer8216]

Failed to explain WHY (cause and effect) young people aren’t keen on the military. This is by far a more important question to answer.

[@khanhnguyen-tt3ff]

Cause the younger EU generation have been living in the most peaceful era in the world history. The European have been hiding under the USA skirt for to Long, if the USA pull out of NATO the EU would have collapsed instantly

[@gnrseanra9070]

Have you seen Russian recruitment ads v U.S.....i have two Moms.....

[@houssedecouette4056]

shitty salary

[@Dread_2137]

@@gnrseanra9070 conscription is mandatory in russia... they don't have a choice

[@gnrseanra9070]

@@Dread_2137 I know have you seen U.S. military recruitment ads before war v Russian?

[@MatthiewPurple]

1:31 2:07 Please stop making graphs where the origin of the Y-axis isn't 0, it always makes things appear visually worse than they are

[@asheiou]

it shows relative shifts

[@coffeecat8826]

I agree, the Y axis should start at 0

[@lyonchea5398]

good catch deserved to be pinned comment

[@pite9]

This is a propaganda channel. What do you expect?

[@ishshah8695]

If you cant read a graph properly then you should go back to school. Dont blame a channel for what a primary school kid could easily comprehend lmao

[@Helio_Frazao]

I was conscripted back in the 2000's in Portugal and ended up staying longer as a professional soldier. I was paid about 20€ per month, as the way things worked is that you'd get paid the national minimal wage at the time, but food, lodging, clothing, taxes, etc. were all deduced from your salary, and you'd pocket the leftover money, so technically you weren't working for free, you were just forced to be there and pay for all the stuff without any say. The service was for 6 month, one month of recruit and 2 month of an assigned specialty ( driver, infantry soldier, tank driver, etc.). But in practical terms you'd do your recruit month and then you'd spend the next 5 months doing menial jobs such as helping on the kitchen, cleaning up sidewalks, doing maintenance on equipment, just busy work. The rationale is that it was not worth the money for the state to spend 2 months prepping soldiers that would be done with their service soon. So the way things would go is that people would leave the army even more out of shape due to rampant alcohol abuse and just laying about cause no one cared about conscripts. With the end of conscription came all of the headaches that follow any organizational adjustment. We ended up with the " national defense day" which is mandatory, in which when you turn 18 you go and visit a military institution and see the life in the military for a day, lots of videos and recruitment talk. I caught part of it, but I left the army around that time as the contracts for enlisted personnel only went to a maximum of 7 years. What happened next is that the army career, especially in the lower ranks just wasn't attractive enough. Very low wages, the idea that you were limited to 8 years of service ( which would then put you back in the civilian world at around 30 without any other work experience than whatever you got in the military) and a shifting mentality towards the military ( when in was a kid we were all enamored with Rambo and Schwarzenegger's one man army heroes, being a badass solider was cool and fun. Now most war movies show the human toll it takes, and we get bombarded with tales of war misery every time we turn on the news... popular cultures does change perceptions). All of these factors are creating a shortage spiral because there are lots of functions that are critical in an army base that need to be fulfilled and there's just not enough volunteers. So you start closing off bases, but that's still not enough. You need people on the kitchen to cook, people to stand guard 24/7 at the gates, people to do maintenance and repairs on the equipment. So people start to have to wear many hats, doing an ungodly amount of work for shit pay. Your time off is gone because there's not enough people to rotate on guard duty ( there always needs to be someone at the gates, 24/7, 365 days per year) so you're working 6 days a week. People leave so the pool of human resources gets even smaller, forcing you to take even more roles, until you reach a breaking point and leave yourself because you'd get paid the same being a cashier at a supermarket and have half of the headaches. To make it worst maybe you were assigned to an unit that's 200km from your home and barely get to see your family cause your specialty ( which you obviously didn't pick) means you need to be assigned to a specific unit that's located in the other side of the country. totally get why armies are considering bringing back conscription. They need cheap labor to maintain the whole infrastructure.

[@Jordan-fd6cx]

Thanks for sharing your experience. 🙌

[@Chris-jw8vm]

Sounds like slavery with extra steps. Glad I'm almost certainly too deficient and defective for them to bother trying to conscipt me.

[@darth3911]

Better idea is go back to the nobility system. It worked by having private individuals pay for local armies who the nation then used. The ups are it’s cheaper for the nation and the army itself gets higher pay and is better held with high standards. The downs are the government must give some benefits to nobility such as tax cuts or even seats of power within the government, creating a class divide.

[@caseclosed9342]

In America all those miscellaneous jobs are being done by contractors

[@Helio_Frazao]

@@darth3911 how could going back to some sort of feudal system could possibly be a better solution? There is no such thing as nobility currently, so corporations and wealthy individuals would be the closest thing. What you're proposing is basically privatizing the armed forces, and we all know what a great idea it is when a single group for profit that is not directly tied to a nation has an armed force at their disposal. Plus, what happens when who ever is paying for this army disagrees with the government policies or refuses to comply with orders? You can pretty much see what happened with the Wagner group and Russia for a good example on how this system would be unfeasible in a true democracy.

[@doppelkammertoaster]

It is usually the people who wouldn't be affected that are in favour of this crap.

[@YourLittleDeath]

Hasn't it ever been thus?

[@JaneSoole]

You forget that millions fought a war so that you could enjoy your freedoms today. Never forget.

[@YourLittleDeath]

@@JaneSoole Yes that doesn't detract from the original point that it's usually those that wouldn't be affected that would be in favour of it. Ever thought to ask the young what they think?

[@bearwynn]

@@JaneSoole yeah, under the belief that their children and their childrens children wouldn't have to do so. Get the fuck out of here with that "we suffered so why shouldn't you" crap. Oh russia and putin might invade? they can fucking have us mate wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference for 90% of peoples lives it's all corporations making the calls anyway

[@CharityisClarity]

​@@JaneSoole How are you free if your expected to join a foreign war?

[@ArnoSnyman007]

I think more people (not a lot) will be keen if the politicians who put it on the table, are the first to send their sons to go to the military. Usually the politician's sons are the ones who never have to do it.

[@yuzemir]

Politician sons send to fake military service (they sit in a room, drink tea and wait for the military service period to pass) or they come to your as a commander and send you to you death first. Slaves do compulsory military service...

[@xxXXRAPXXxx]

Even if they ware conscripted they would be protected and have special treatment.

[@joaquinescotoaleman4320]

And their daughters!!!

[@manictiger]

Politicians at the front of the stack. They saber rattle so hard behind a mic, so let's test that rhetoric.

[@SusCalvin]

I think part of the acceptance for the conscription system here was how many people from different walks of life participated. Conscription could be a cross-section of a generation of males. Contract armies are much less diverse. Then the army is a job people with better options can choose not to do.

[@Yanousecq]

I am 100% against it. But if it is reintroduced, should be mandatory equally for both men and women, and first 10.000 conscripts should be crappy politicians getting the hardest training.

[@khanhnguyen-tt3ff]

They all to old for it, but their son and daughter is not

[@gnrseanra9070]

@@khanhnguyen-tt3ff Politicians first.

[@soundscape26]

The military relies a lot on physical strength, I'm not sure why you want all women, who can perform valuable background tasks, in the same number as men.

[@gnrseanra9070]

@@soundscape26 We all capable of background tasks don't forget EU values please, DEI.

[@soundscape26]

@@gnrseanra9070 Put the right people doing the right tasks. This is true for a company as it is for the military.

[@taylorshipman1045]

I wouldn’t want to fight for a country thats trying to replace me either

[@disposabull]

We are being invaded and not by Russians. The leaders of Europe are deliberately ethnically cleansing the people of Europe, send the "New Europeans" to defend Europe, we natives refuse.

[@sergeistepanov114]

Just admit you don't have the balls to do it. When a country is 70% white , you aren't being replaced. You're just hiding behind others

[@TheLastSane1]

The replacement theory has been debunked time and again. Then again its entire premise is flawed with the idea that demographics are stagnant and never shift and change. You want a reason to whine that’s all.

[@ASS_ault]

Cringe. No one's gonna ask you want you to do it or not

[@nikc1313]

The vast, vast majority of people who support it are those who have no chance to be drafted. Older people and those from wealthy families that would be able to dodge it. Young people are more informed now and simply aren't willing to die for the old men in charge any more.

[@phantomlordmxvi]

Older people already were drafted before when they were young...

[@prism2451]

Don't forget the old men were once young too and many of them, already fought to defend their respective countries. Military service isn't fighting for older men, the exact opposite Infact. For younger people and for the yet unborn.

[@BiscuitDelivery]

People in modern Western countries have the mistaken idea that wars are always optional. Your lack of willingness to fight won't make your invader any less willing to conquer you.

[@shwethang4347]

You’re weak minded

[@TheValdevor]

I am young, I consider that a year of military training would be quite useful. I wouldn't mind doing it honestly.

[@axelwickm]

Should probably have mentioned that conscription is gender neutral in both Sweden and Norway.

[@revancedvanced-od6xc]

what does that mean? Do females have to do it as well?

[@BetalerIkkeSkatt]

@@revancedvanced-od6xc yes

[@miguelpadeiro762]

​@@revancedvanced-od6xcThat's what gender neutral means

[@Karma46819]

It’s not, they can pick social work instead of military conscription

[@Entety303]

in sweden you can say that you aren’t interested and will be left alone from then on.

[@DudeWatIsThis]

LMAO the "older people support it more" has nothing to do with acceptance. It's just that older people have a smaller chance to ever be recruited. Though in an all-out war, you do get people in their 60's and up thrown into the grinder...

[@giantWario]

Already the case in Ukraine. The average age of soldiers in Ukraine is 43 (although that was a few months ago so it might have gone up again.) This means that if a single 23-year-old joins the army, there needs to be one 63-year-old or two 53-year-olds who joined at the same time to get an average of 43.

[@AaronVanWolfen]

And who do you think finance the war efforts? who buys the bonds? who pays the taxes for it? the Tiktokers? 💀💀💀

[@MidWitPride]

@@giantWario If they are counting the logistics personnel etc, that doesn't sound too bad at all. Frontline troops make relatively small % of the overall force. Majority of the soldiers are either in logistics or garrison troops in low priority sectors there to buy some time for the "real army" to get there if enemy decides to attack there. If someone is fit enough to work a regular job, they will be useful in a military as well. There are a lot of tasks that need doing that aren't physically very demanding.

[@jhwheuer]

Actually, this 60YO has served as an infantry officer. I know why.

[@zbigniewp1810]

Most often older people (men at least) have already gone through it though, and currently they are the basis of defence. If you look at Ukraine, where average age on he front is over 40, you can get the idea why we need young folks to join the ranks - in a few years there will be noone to fight as old generation will be too old.

[@shockandawe7274]

Ask Rishi to call on his extended family.

[@sampohonkala4195]

Finland has conscription as it has had for over 100 years since 1919, but not compulsory military service as the video claims. You can also choose civil service. However, only some 7% of men choose the civil service, the rest join the defence forces. To understand how militarized Finland is, one can think about the Parliament: roughly 50% of the parliament members have a military rank. In 2019 a third of the male parliament members were officers in the reserves, the highest ranked being majors.

[@suprememother]

Where did you find the 7% number nit saying that it's wrong I'm just interested. Also the first stats that were given by the defence forces showed that around 20% of the age class were either given C papers or E papers which do lead to C papers a lot of the time. In the defence force stats only 1,45% chose civil service this of course doesn't count the people who switch from the military service to civil service. These stats are all from 2019 so things have probably changed a bit

[@sampohonkala4195]

@@suprememother Quite possible that your figures are more accurate than mine.

[@verttiviljaminiemi7574]

No, Marin did not, she is pinnacle of what we Finns don't want. And conscription is mostly for males, females can volunteer.

[@mernreindahl7114]

@@verttiviljaminiemi7574shouldn’t it be for everyone?

[@Alex-ff1mk]

@@mernreindahl7114no we’re fine with only males having it mandatory and only those women who really want to be in the military can join.

[@dhz2116]

I speak for everyone when I say we are not gonna become cannon fodder for corrupt politicians

[@genoric4094]

Well, that’s not what conscription is going to make you anyway. Either way, the only politician I see with an incentive to start any wars in Europe is Putin. And quite frankly, we can’t control what he decides to do. The chance of war coming to any European countries bar those that border Russia is very, very small, hence why those countries are for the most part extremely well prepared, while the rest of Europe is extremely ill-prepared. However, the unpredictability of Putin is cause for concern for anyone within range, and that is what the war in Ukraine has proven to those previously less aware of Russia’s capabilities. Forced conscription and increase in military spending does not mean that you are going to be sent to a foreign country to fight a war you’ve got no cause in, and it does not mean that anyone, politician or civilian, is intentionally leading the country into war. Quite the opposite actually, at least when the threat is an invasive imperial superpower with no regard for respect, honor, trust, promises or agreement, which nullifies any diplomatic solution. Si vis pacem, para bellum. In this case at least.

[@gfys756]

Yes you will.

[@Crackshotsteph]

@@gfys756 Careful what you say bredrin as Jamaica is still a Commonwealth Country the UK can ask the Jamaican Government for assistance in providing Soldiers or Support Personnel if the War kicks off. It wouldn't matter which Political Party would be in charge PNP or JLP they can't say no to the UK or to the USA once the War starts.

[@kingakdiscipl]

nah we wont not after covid. @@gfys756

[@DeviLz1337]

@@gfys756 Bet.

[@markusgrain8053]

please start using graphs that start their vertical axis at 0, it is very difficult to get an accurate picture otherwise, thank you

[@4hfyhfghgfhgfuhdhh]

This is data manipulation

[@Total_Entropy36]

also change presenter. Her voice & accent is irritating... pronunciation of words incorrect.. tho....I would still hit that.

[@potato_nugget]

​@@Total_Entropy36Creep

[@Total_Entropy36]

@@potato_nugget oh I'm sorry Mr old man BOOMER. You're not in your 20s are you? Of course you'd be resentful towards us young'uns actually getting some action. 😂... must be as dry as the Sahara for u ...

[@Katarinyas]

@@Total_Entropy36 Dude...

[@freakalmighty2533]

The only conscription my country (Italy) should introduce is mandatory 9 month Deliveroo service for all politicians. For those that cannot pedal for hours each day: mandatory 12 months in retail. All parliament salaries are suspended for that duration, their bank accounts frozen and their apartments temporarily repossessed. Give them a taste of what their citizens experience daily.

[@szilardhertelendi7417]

This 👆

[@mocha_bear00]

Why would I risk my life for politicians and society that don't give a single damn about me...sorry, my country doesn't inspire me to do so..

[@mharley3791]

Mostly because the Russians care about you less

[@420yuGtahT]

Exactly

[@hevnervals]

Yes. Our regimes should be content with the fact that we're not helping Russia

[@fabonzanaon8177]

​@@hevnervalsYes. This!

[@DeviLz1337]

My brother, more people think like this than you'd imagine. Fuck the politicians, I won't die for them in war.

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

It's not that young people are cowardly, it's that they do not support the wars our politicians get embroiled in.

[@soundscape26]

You don't need to support them but you may be asked to defend your country. If you refuse to do so then yeah you might be accused of being a coward.

[@Jompabompa]

No they are cowardly.

[@buffgarfield3231]

Choosing not to die for your country is not necessarily cowardly as long as there is something you would be willing to die for. You are a person. You get to choose what the most important things in life are and maybe your country isn't all that important to you.

[@AmateurHEROduelist]

​@@soundscape26I think there would be a nuclear war before any ground invasion occurs on UK soil. At that point we're all done for anyway so seems pointless to undergo conscription 🤷

[@Michael-ss7pc]

Not going to happen. Why would I fight for Londonstan, mass immigration destroyed the culture and soul for the UK. That's fine but I won't fight for it.

[@dondovahkiin7899]

Equality except in Conscription- Sounds perfect

[@Revokefarleft]

Frankly they’re quite open about it and isn’t only conscription but any hard working jobs. They want equality only when it comes to positions of power or convenient workplaces.

[@reheyesd8666]

Do you really want a bunch of women going "thats offensive, when a bunch of lads make lad jokes?"

[@cooltwittertag]

​@@Revokefarleftuh oh incels are coming out of the basement

[@patriotenfield3276]

@@cooltwittertag

[@Czuberion]

@@cooltwittertag is sex the only measure of value your underdeveloped brain can understand?

[@andrewdiaz3529]

A big reason conscription was basically phased out altogether in the US was because Vietnam soldiers of all types having enough of their officers and killing the with the easily available grenades. And that was just people who hated the "normal" incompetence of leadership during the Vietnam War; A public that hasn't had to deal with conscription for a good few generations, who are not only in disagreement with the government but actively hate it? Who could kill officers way easier now? Or who could make their military lose hundreds of thousands of dollars just by playing around with the big price tag things?

[@TheSuspectOnFoot]

Eh...I'd say you're overblowing the fragging phenomena. The biggest reason was that you lost the war and conscription focused on poorer people while a blind eye was turned on draft dodging in the upper-middle class and ironically those waging the war. Fortunate Son became the most iconic song related to the war for a reason. You're not too off target on the price matter though because no conscripts fly jets anywhere as far as I know

[@TheLastSane1]

@@TheSuspectOnFootconscripts are just soldiers. So yeah unless all your planes are unmanned they do

[@TheSuspectOnFoot]

​@tSane1 I'd love to hear exactly what military operates with 100 % conscripted personnel? All conscription-based systems I know, have a professional core which carries out instructing, planning and special tasks such as the afromentioned jet flying. These people write a contract voluntarily after their conscription and become government employees just like cops or the soldiers in "professional armed forces" which they actually are.

[@90taetaeya]

I hear Men Men Men a lot, what about the women stepping up for equality now?

[@SusCalvin]

Would you like gender-neutral conscription?

[@keyworksurfer]

@@SusCalvinyes

[@Lilliathi]

@@SusCalvin Yes, because it would kill third wave feminism over night.

[@SusCalvin]

@@Lilliathi There is a feminist argument for formalizing more participation in total warfare.

[@Lilliathi]

@@SusCalvin Lets hear it.

[@PeterĎurica-m9c]

I´m a uni student in chemical engineering. Last year we had a poll at our uni about mandatory conscription. 65% of students voted that they would rather get jailed than joining military.

[@dexon777]

where are you from?

[@patriarch7237]

I'm pretty sure that 95% of that 65% would really join the military if it actually came up. Even the worst conscription service pays better than prison, won't screw your CV up quite as much, and probably isn't as dangerous unless you live in a complete hellhole.

[@tomasvrabec1845]

Probably because they either have the idea that conscription mean being deployed abroad in a foreign war such as ... Much of the west. Or they have an idea that conscription results in 2 years of wasted time with bullying, no income and no actual training like in the old socialist east.

[@golagiswatchingyou2966]

maybe the next generation is not lost yet.

[@usersar2213]

Imagine if all of us refused to participate in wars, there would be no wars, because wealthy and their lackeys-politicians would never and never will fight their wars themselves.

[@davidray6962]

A huge part of the recruiting problem in the US is related to pay and benefits. From the 1950s to 1980s, the military was a good way to get out of poverty. Now, joining the military is a terrible financial move, with pay even worse than the very bad average income (which is itself too far below the per capita GDP).

[@aikighost]

also the fact that nobody with any sense will sign up to fight for a nation that hates them. 🤣🤣🤣

[@syntaxlost9239]

@@aikighost And we saw how the military was used in Iraq. Sent oversees to fight purely for political reasons and corruption.

[@SusCalvin]

From the last time I looked, the US armed forces still beats an underclass job if you know how to work the benefits. And a lot of the armed forces is working class and underclass people.

[@syntaxlost9239]

@@SusCalvin At the risk of cumulative MSK injuries or other long-term health problems. Good if you don't roll a 1. If you do, then you get to deal with VA along with that permanent injury.

[@mattfaustini]

It also doesn't help that this video fails to mention that the US has a unique hybrid model with all males 18 to 25 having to register with the selective service in the need of a general mobilization and can deliver its the first conscripts for deployment within 200 days

[@alperacanal5255]

It is WILD how anti-war attitudes in Europe are viewed as a crisis.

[@foodistzen]

It's not like those in power have been softening up the population with a nanny state but whatever I guess

[@MatthiasDrinksH20]

Imagine showing this `crisis` to some soviet soldier who barely survived ww1 and 2 (if there were any left in that age)

[@inbb510]

If anti-war means pro-surrender then yes it is a crisis.

[@prism2451]

How about making military service more rewarding to increase the incentive instead of forcing it on citizens?

[@aikighost]

How about not telling young men they are toxic, evil and worthless for 30 years straight? Honestly these media takes are so hilariously out of whack with reality. 🤣🤣🤣

[@SimonMester]

Yep, me and many other men feel absolutely no allegiance to the countries that have been berating us, and laughing at 'mens issues'. I also disagree with conscription on principle. If your nation does not inspire loyalty, and its citizens to defend it, it does not deserve to exist. I'd rather fight against a government that would force me to die defending it, while I completely disagree with its policies, spending, ideology.@@aikighost

[@SusCalvin]

Conscript service is cheap. Conscription cannot be a career. You are going to do your months to a year or so and then filter back into civ life and a reserve status. Using nothing but full-time contractors is very expensive, and does not create the "mass" in mass army.

[@socire72]

@@aikighostThat’s part of it, but imo it’s more due people becoming more class-conscious, realising that their countries’ only purpose is to make money for the rich - including the countries’ wars.

[@collan580]

@@SusCalvin You can have the "mass" but it does not matter if the quality is shit. It just causes more issues, than just having less people.

[@poppyrider5541]

What did they think was going to happen when any form of nationalism is demonized. Who would fight for a country they have been taught to hate?

[@damnedmadman]

Exactly 👍

[@syntaxlost9239]

Holy black-and-white fallacy, Batman!

[@malogibeaux4946]

dude really doesn't know the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism: "I like my country, though I know it can be better", I'm no but that's a just and fair sentiment to have Nationalism: " My country is better than any other country", and that's how racist stooges get to power.

[@warrenschrader7481]

As an American, I hear every idea thrown around to increase recruitment except raising salaries and benefits. Now I see the same thing is happening in Europe to the point that they are considering reintroducing conscription. What the hell? If you raise wages enough, people will eventually start wanting to enlist again.

[@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753]

That would end in financial disaster. Free food and shelter plus a bit cash on top is enough.

[@lepgz]

​@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753 its a job like every other job, a harder and more dangerous job than most so you should get paid more than most, why would you join the military, live in shitty conditions away from family, eat shitty food, have the chance to get shot or see someone get shot in the middle of fucking nowhere africa and/or middle east just to get paid minimum wage, it makes no fucking sense at all

[@Aito_porojääkäri]

That would mean high costs especially for smaller countries when they don't actively need a large army. Conscription is a cheaper and More efficient way to achieve the needed ammount of troops.

[@socire72]

@@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753Well then. No one will join the army. It’s not like we’re at threat from anyone anyway.

[@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753]

@@socire72 Hence conscription is the way to maintaine an army! Was so, will be so!

[@midnightflare9879]

Let's not forget how exploitative the military is in many countries. Often conscrips barely do any training, they just perform unskilled labour. And that's nice and all, if it would pay, but it often pays less than minimum wage. So in a lot of countries, getting conscripted feels like the government just wants you to work for free a little.

[@0fficialdregs]

agreed

[@Pyhantaakka]

Maybe you should consider adopting a model from countries where this is not the case and where conscripts are trained and are treated well. Br. Ex-conscripts, current reservist.

[@cameronspence4977]

Insane how much better the US military is than european ones, Im learning from these comments

[@CorporalCookie]

Sounds not like an issue with conscription, but an old fashioned model. Maybe look into improving what you do.

[@MatthiasDrinksH20]

Well, that was obvious. Just compare the budgets@@cameronspence4977

[@TimewiseChubert]

“Politicians hide themselves away, They only started the war…”

[@jessefisher1809]

Well in this case they didn't, other than Putin. Honestly politicians have their own jobs during war, so them not fighting makes sense to me. Its when they try to exempt their kids that pisses me off (looking at you Peskov)

[@johnyoh6107]

why should they go out to fight

[@genoric4094]

Applying US talking points to European countries. This is apples and oranges. No European politician started a war. Putin did, or if you’re detarded you might say that Biden did, but either way it wasn’t us and were now forced to react to it. The chance of war coming to most of these European countries is still extremely small bar those that directly border Russia, but recent history has clearly shown that it’s better to be safe than sorry anyway, and above all, that you can’t trust Russia for shit.

[@friedrichjaeger367]

Treating people just like pawns in chess

[@miguelpadeiro762]

​@@johnyoh6107Because otherwise they are butchers, sending their own men to die for their own personal goals, not shedding a single shred of skin or drop of blood in the fight personally. You can say "its dumb to send politicians to die, they're too precious" And you're right! The real issue here really is that war is dumb in general. It shouldn't happen, warmongers like Putin shouldn't happen. And what I say here is that if they really have to happen, warmongers like Putin might as well go to the frontlines.

[@vitoanania6042]

countries like Switzerland and Finland, who are not run by utopistic morons, nor are imperialistic, well realize that national security is the primary goal of a country and having a population at least a bit prepared for any situation is important. that said, this should be done in an efficient and effective way (which I am afraid will not in many countries)

[@tobiwan001]

That's true for Finland but Switzerland is not ready for war. They spend less than 1% on defence and their equipment is decades old and there is not a lot of it. The professional army is tiny and so is the air force. The conscripts only serve 3 months with a few repetition courses in the following years. But while they get a few basic infantry skills their basically used for police duties like guarding embassies. Switzerland is safe because their neighbours never bothered to attack them and respected their neutraility - a neutrality that was originally forced on them after their failed expansionism.

[@vitoanania6042]

​@@tobiwan001 I am not very informed about the current situations of CH, still think they are much better prepared than most countries in the rest of the world. but im sorry they got worse at this, hope they recover!!

[@FrenchesOP]

Switzerland doesn't need to spend more. They are surrounded by mountains and the entire country can be locked down within a few hours. They have bunkers for every single citizen, and every bridge into major cities is pre-rigged with explosives in the event that roads need to be blocked. Switzerland is probbably one of the safest countries in terms of potential war. Not to mention that they have no enemies because they deal with everyones money.

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

@@momytik how does it makes it one of the militarized state in the world?

[@dtibvgz8441]

@@vitoanania6042 Countries which are at conflicts or have extremely high crime-rate (looking at you Brazil) are better prepared for war because they are in one. CH despite their loud mouths is not. They do not need to be as their location is secure - mountainous terrain will give them a lot of time to prepare and neighbors which are not showing aggression and will shield them from someone doing so (cough*Russia*cough). Turkey as opposite example have poor financial situation in general - you would not want them at your doors as their military are mostly experienced and numbers at the ready. Rich countries with poor military (which is the whole EU) can easily convert to high military production in few years which will slow their economic growth and can overwhelm Russia (together as EU forces and not NATO, US if we ignore nukes can do it on their own). But once again that would require like 10 years of preparing - as you need to build/increase military factories, produce machines and train personnel. You can see by the recent conflict in Ukraine how 2 years look like when under pressure. That's half the reason the Third Reich decide to attack Soviet Russia all those years ago - not giving time to the pray is sometimes the best way to win an engagement.

[@RealHorsen]

"Compulsory military service" is just a fancy way of saying *slavery*

[@generaltom6850]

No, you technically get paid.

[@GeenSama]

Funny how men can't say my body my choice when it comes to war. No one should be forced into military if we believe in equality.

[@soundscape26]

Men can say "my body my choice" too... you have a say on whatever medical procedures are done to you no?

[@handrew311]

@@soundscape26*laughs in forced c0vid vax*

[@Donner906]

Get up and go coward. If your country is dealing with an aggressive foreign power you do what you have to do to stop them. . Do you want your country to look like Ukraine?

[@Eldinarcus]

@@soundscape26 Not when we're forced to go die for a country that hates us.

[@aAverageFan]

​@@soundscape26 Male genital mutilation (circumcision) is legal in most of the world

[@cardyceps7728]

Currently doing army in Cyprus, it feels like a waste of time, I can’t get a job, get only 160 euros per month & spent most of my time in a crap hole called an outpost, I get that some have it worse, but at least they could compensate us somehow, teach us more about first aid or radiation protection, give us higher wages too.

[@IIITheDeadGamerIII]

sorry for your situation. This is, and many others, are why people don't go to the military. We hear the bullshit coming from service and ex service members like yourself, who tell us "don't join the military. It's bullshit."

[@coolboy5428]

Grow a pair and quit.

[@cardyceps7728]

I would, but unfortunately this is a mandatory service, legaly, I must serve. & I also want to work in gun industry in future & in such areas, military past is a neat bonus.

[@MuonRay]

A terrible waste of your time, productivity and potential creativity.

[@RotneybotOfficial]

@@cardyceps7728 Try reaching out to those industries, or have a plan on who to contact before you get out. It's always the storm before the calm. Best of luck to you.

[@RoScFan]

The entire video mentioned men and only men. So societies need feminism when women literally have a privileged condition? They dont get conscripted. How should they pay their dues?

[@SusCalvin]

A lot of the conscript systems hail back to the european mass armies around the turn of the century, back to the Great War and before. Female volunteer organizations have been added over time. There are feminists who argue that national service should be placed on all.

[@darkhorseman8263]

You can fight for your own Billionaire Yacht Money.

[@ffx_6751]

Meanwhile Finland rolling with a 900 000 reserve force and 280 000 wartime strength with only 5 million population.

[@jacobfrost2131]

where did u take these ridiculous numbers?

[@benisrood]

Absolute delusional fiction.

[@Plab1402]

​@@jacobfrost2131 just go do a simple google search and you'll see

[@TheJere213]

Those are official numbers from Finnish government, though how big portion of the 870 000 reservists are fit for service is hard to confirm. About 66% of Finnish men go through conscription and that percentage matches quite well with the total reserve of ~900 000

[@burgundian777]

The conscription isn't getting more popular in Europe, it's getting more popular with European politicians. I wouldn't fight for European politicians.

[@chi15800]

also, from what I hear, going to military in Norway is almost a pure joy, the conditions are unbelievable to the point they have gaming rooms with PCs. In most of Europe on the other hand .. you re not more than an underpaid (if at all) handyman/work mule

[@MatthiasDrinksH20]

And I´ve met plenty of alcoholics that became alcoholics while in conscription. Why join into something that will exploit you and peer pressure you into substance abuse?

[@loeffelm]

Good news for France: we already have plenty of young people who have been training in urban warfare for years

[@sven7736]

Vive La France!

[@DeadNoob451]

Molotovs dont work on modern tanks.

[@bennym8218]

One thing that history has taught us is that borders have changed and countries come and some will go...why would i fight or die for that??

[@kjkj4725]

Lol can’t afford a house, can’t afford family, won’t ever afford retirement - there is nothing to fight for. Let the old guys and investors defend their wealth. I’ve got nothing 😂

[@DailyEnhancer]

Modern men don’t have a thing to fight for. Everything they used to value and be proud of has been stripped away

[@mused89]

1 - Russia can barely manage to beat Ukraine, there's no way in hell they could take on all of Europe. 2 - We have plenty of gammons having wet dreams over WW2, let them go. 3 - Tories have spent 14 years defunding the military, they can help make up the shortfall in the UK. 4 - You're really going to force working age people below 40 to leave their jobs for a year or two? Good luck keeping literally your entire economy afloat. 5 - I'd flat out refuse to fight anyone as I couldn't kill another human being - especially not for a country that persecutes me anyway.

[@Lilliathi]

"especially not for a country that persecutes me anyway." You're a white lower class male?

[@TeddyKrimsony]

1- The want to invade Russia. 4- They will replace them with immigrants.

[@Thissentenceisfalselosers]

Yeah I dunno what to tell you, the more you know about what your politicians actually do all the time, the more you realise it's just not worth dying for their sake.

[@ryangriffith5551]

But it is worth it to not be ruled by Moscow

[@MidWitPride]

What matters a ton here is that what the country's military will be used for. For countries bordering Russia they aren't "dying for the politicians" but to not be turned into Russian client states. Anything Russia touches turns to shit, like reverse Midas' touch.

[@Adamlemon1217]

As if Moscow can take over, even make a dent in, any European country.

[@chunkykong1976]

@@ryangriffith5551 that’s assuming that moscow has the power and intent to rule over all of europe.

[@lolstalgic9602]

@@ryangriffith5551 Moscow can't even take Ukraine... Jesus Christ...

[@PhilipJackson03]

If it came to a WW2 level threat you’d see those numbers change drastically. However when we understand most wars are fought over corporate interests it blurs what I means to “fight for your country” significantly.

[@homosexualbiologicalmale--3]

they need to send robots because i refuse

[@thelma2084]

I have some bad news about WW1 & 2

[@mharley3791]

@@thelma2084 World war two had many issues but Hitler was decidedly not fighting for corporate interests

[@mharley3791]

This video talks about Europe in terms of a war with Russia which seeing as what happened in Ukraine is really not about corporate interests

[@homosexualbiologicalmale--3]

@@mharley3791 corporations want to steal the terein from ukraine cheap zone after the war , business capitalism must stop stealing terein through wars to make cheapt terein after the war , business capitalism never make it fair , business capitalism always steal

[@stevenjoy3537]

If the politicians had to do the fighting, there'd be no war

[@DeviLz1337]

Yeah, literally the quickest way to Complete World Peace 😆

[@cameronspence4977]

Yeah but a lot of politicians are ex military. In the US at least

[@leoh2502]

Don't mix politicians with tyrants, Igor.

[@larskjar]

The would you fight for your country poll is silly as it is basically a poll of how likely you think it is that the next war will be on your own territory. If you think the next war will be an expiditionary trip to the middel east, who wants to die for that? But to protect your home? Its a super poorly phrased question.

[@SusCalvin]

It's nebulously hard to measure that. If the national armies knew how to manufacture war readiness, they would be doing so nonstop. It looks like it rises when people believe and understand that some threat is there, and when they know how their effort helps.

[@yudhiadhyatmikosiswono9082]

They're going to say " we fight for democracy " as usual. Kinda like religious chant if you ask me.

[@SusCalvin]

@@yudhiadhyatmikosiswono9082 Total war in Europe, at the scale of the Great War and such, is existential wars. Instead of your government, you get the french government as an occupational force.

[@yudhiadhyatmikosiswono9082]

@@SusCalvin Your explanation doesn't make sense btw especially with today world.

[@aftereight9143]

What do you mean "protect your home"? Just lol if you think anyone is dying for an economic zone.

[@fateenshareef8716]

I'm not European. The only way to make conscription compulsory and palatable especially when it comes to young men, is to make the other groups contribute as well. If women and older people are not conscripted, then they pay more in taxes or are in non-fighting roles as a compulsion. Or otherwise, the other approach is to make it more rewarding for those who serve. Pension for a few years or tax breaks.

[@Athrun82]

What about old people who already served? Germany had a conscription model until I believe 2010 and then it was suspended. So anyone conscripted before that should be exempt. Including those that were rejected by the conscription orders until this point

[@cooltwittertag]

women are involved in some scandinavian countries too. But thats not why people dont want to join the military and is just incel logic.

[@Lucas-wn5wm]

We get tax breaks after we serve in Singapore. (The allowance is slightly livable)

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

​@cooltwittertag it certainly is a part. Calling it incel seems kinda funny lol

[@trendhouse6799]

@@cooltwittertag lol you're the incel. The idea that men go to war and women give birth is an outdated one. The future is compulsory draft for both men and women.

[@alexandrubuturas1291]

As a Romanian living in the UK: if the Romanian government actually goes ahead and forces me to put my life in UK on hold and come back to Romania within 15 days for military service - then I'll happily take my British citizenship and renounce my Romanian one. That country has done nothing for me. I'd rather serve in the British military if those were the only 2 choices I had!

[@markyoung405]

The French dwarf with the granny wife is the only one who has suggested conscription.Even Germany have said NO!

[@Athrun82]

What I find concerning: recruiting foreigners into your state's army. This is basically hiring mercenaries and Machiavelli warned about those centuries ago. Heck the roman Empire fell apart because they relied on barbarians too much. Or is this the new "Service guarantees citizenship"?

[@cooltwittertag]

anyone who treats machiavelli as a person to look up to should be seriously investigated, fascist cosplaying

[@Athrun82]

@@cooltwittertag Funny enough his words apply till this day. But keep your head in the sand you seem real smart

[@thedemographicschannel611]

Recruiting foreigners isn't the same as hiring mercenaries if they're given citizenship and pledge allegiance to the country they're serving. Immigrants can become part of the nations they migrate to. Soldiers who were born abroad are still full-time soldiers who have pledged loyalty to their country, whereas mercenaries are fickle and simply serve the highest bidder.

[@Fluxwux]

I honestly think that conscription and the whole process can be extremely beneficial for better integration and higher levels of patriotism among citizens with foreign backgrounds - which benefits society as a whole.

[@Athrun82]

@@thedemographicschannel611 IF they get citizenship. That is the fine line here. I am against recruiting foreigners into the army because they aren't born in said country. They have no "root" here. They might make for good "state thugs" because the state guarantees them something while they have no loyalty to the citizens they bludgeon (in the most extreme case). Of course I might be wrong but imho only natural citizens should be able to serve in the army. If that sounds conservative then so be it. And if said citizens don't want to serve their country then maybe something else is going horribly wrong. Just look at the USA and see how they treat their veterans

[@bruceesterhuizen3283]

Interesting that the proximity to Mordor is correlated with conscription.

[@yes1770]

Lol I noticed that too

[@Rodzyniastyyyy]

East doesn't trust the West. If you want to count on someone, count on yourself.

[@manictiger]

Belgium?

[@AlimaChichibabina]

Exactly, living more far away from Z-landia makes people feel that war never can come to their home. "It all political bull..it" until ruzzian tanks will destroy your town and people you love

[@HansKazan-z1c]

Except the ruzzians can barely operate a tank, let alone reach Warsaw in one@@AlimaChichibabina

[@bluefanofeverything4329]

See, the problem with Conscription is that nowadays, the government saw them as disposable pawns and that no sane person would volunteer to be cannon fodder. Give them a very good reason why they have to conscript. They only want to defend their homes. Better yet, do not punish those who refuse but reward those who accept.

[@Wackalacka]

Living under Russian dominance and dictatorship is probably a pretty good reason

[@nattly6340]

@Hornisse-Me410 no they havent, the entire "cannon fodder infantry" has come from the 1st world war, in the 2nd that was by no means that case nor was it in any other war since

[@dtibvgz8441]

Wrong, currently war doctrines value personnel higher than machines (on paper, not individual solders). When you need 2-3 years to build a last gen fighter jet and need around 50 trained people to make it operational (maintenance and pilots), losing few and the jet can no longer be used. Those people need from 1-10 years of training to be able to do their job. Resource (money) wise they are more valuable as a group than the machine yet not having the machine makes them useless as well. You can see the current state of China's fleet - they (will) have the boats but not the crew to fill it up same with other branches and that's a country which perhaps put least value on their population from the global powers.

[@Wackalacka]

F China

[@buffgarfield3231]

Gen z can't even afford to buy homes and they are expected to die to protect the rich land lord parasites who buy them all up?

[@raptorthefirst]

Where are feminists shouting for equality in regard to the topic 😂

[@christian_and_not_gay]

Nah they don't have balls for that literally 😂😂😂

[@TeddyKrimsony]

They're very silent about this and about the thousands of females being abused by IDF. Feminism is just a tool for the ruling class to reshape society.

[@jameslewis2635]

In the case of the British military I believe that the lack of service personnel is because of a lack of funding. This has lead to a relatively low wage for soldiers in comparison to people of a typical level of seniority in civilian sectors, especially when you consider how much effort is required to be a soldier.

[@Athrun82]

Add to that is that they are trying to fulfill "diversity quotas". For example the RAF is looking for skilled 'minority' soldiers and they don't find any except whites which they are not supposed to bring in.

[@AmateurHEROduelist]

And no one wants to fight abroad in pointless conflicts 🤷 chances of a ground invasion of the UK is so low, there'd be a nuclear war before that happens and we're all done for at that point so conscription seems pointless for many

[@aikighost]

@@AmateurHEROduelist also nobody wants to fight for a nation that actively derides and hates them.

[@Ivytheherbert]

I was wondering why they included the UK in graphics, if anything the UK decreasing in numbers in similar ways to other European countries, when mandatory service was ditched in the 1960s, proves that a lack of conscription is not the issue.

[@golagiswatchingyou2966]

also why fight for a country that hates you? how many would hail invaders as liberators?

[@Blechinstrument]

There are many points of concern: Any form of compulsory service inherently requires substantial justification because it constitutes a significant infringement upon citizens' liberties. Additionally, conscription for military service can potentially entail the obligation to kill, posing an additional ethical dilemma. The generally arduous process of conscientious objection cannot adequately compensate for this, as the state would be obliged to justify any potential coercion to kill. Conscription cannot be implemented fairly. Many privileged individuals can evade it if they choose to, burdening primarily those who lack the means to find a sympathetic doctor or to live abroad. Moreover, this assumes that everyone is drafted, which is often not the case in practice. Historically, conscripts have often been seen as expendable because their training was not equivalent to that of professional soldiers. For instance, during the Vietnam War, some Americans "volunteered" because voluntary service only marginally extended their service time compared to the draft, yet typically provided better training, thus increasing their chances of survival. The purpose of a conscript army in modern high-tech warfare is dubious at best. It raises questions about whether conscription is simply a continuation of tradition and thus reflective of an illiberal value system.

[@Kossumies6]

Don't mix up concription with drafts. In Finland all conscripts receive around 6-12 months of physical and lecture training with weapons and wartime equipment followed up after service with intermittient rehearsals, officers along other specialists more often. Conscripts are also paid small salary on top of having their living and gearing needs covered, and after military service ends those intermittient rehearsals are covered for the employers by the state and paid salary matched for the conscript.

[@Blechinstrument]

@@Kossumies6 Fair enough, but then there's still a major problem with sexism left unaddressed. When men are conscripted, so should women, as they are in Norway or Sweden.

[@Flight042]

1) Conscription is legal. Many countries have well established systems for conscription along with active rosters eg. US Selective Service. Ethical dilemmas are not law, and should not be treated as such. 2) Both conscription and enlistment are not and cannot be implemented fairly. Both methods have a disproportionate impact on the economically challenged. The draft has a higher chance of engaging in talent pools that would typically not have to engage anywhere near military service eg. white collar whereas enlistment typically only engages primarily on those less fortunate. 3) You are correct that conscripts are relatively more expendable than professional soldiers as there is little to no time to train up a new force in the middle of a conflict. This core force of trained veteran troops is often required when conducting offensive actions, as currently observed in Russia, with initial waves of conscripts followed by accurate fire support/professional soldiers conducting the actual assault. 4) Conscripts have a purpose in modern warfare, let us not be disingenuous about it. Having additional hands in digging a trench, holding firewatch, cooking, manning a trench, filing paperwork/payslips, etc. is always helpful towards the war effort. The impact and cost of utilizing conscripts however will always be high as significant losses occur due to poor training, fitness, utilization, and coordination. TLDR: Conscription has its purpose and benefits, it is up to the people and the politicians/lawmakers they elect as to whether the costs of it in lives and economic damages as to whether it is "worth it".

[@dtibvgz8441]

@@Flight042 Another point your missed in your second post is the loss of rights. A lot of people are unaware of their rights as citizen and, yet those same rights save them from a lot of problems (especially in the 'West'). Being in the military usually means following some martial laws and, in most cases, (countries) losing the majority of privileges and rights in comparison to normal citizen. This usually put a heavy tow on their mind or the judicatory system when someone tries to do what 'he has the right to' when serving and is not aware. Double that when happening during active service while the country is in active conflict.

[@Joe--]

​@@dtibvgz8441 "to do what 'he has the right to do' when serving and is not aware" part? Please specify the action.

[@johnjon5448]

you didn't mentioned the 3rd reason. value misalignment of the average citizen and their governments.

[@rosshilton]

Major General Lord Chelmsford learned an invaluable lesson on 18th January 1879 - that numeric superiority outweighs technical superiority. It was such an important lesson that all junior officers should have had it tattooed on the back of their hands. In Chelmsfords case he thought his 1,827 well trained, disciplined troops armed with the latest Martini Henry breach loading rifles and supported by 7 pounder mountain guns could easily outclass 20,000 Zulu warriors with spears and clubs. At Isandlwanda he found he was wrong and 1,776 of his men lay dead a few hours later. Thirty five years later the British army learned the need to have that motto tattooed onto the back of hands. Within a week of mobilisation Germany had 3.8 million men under arms. The British Expeditionary Force had exactly 247,400 men in Europe. They were severely mauled, even though they were a well trained and motivated professional army. Still they didn’t learn. By 1916 they thought a heavy artillery barrage would make up for numeric inferiority. At the Battle of the Somme they found they were wrong again. 57,470 British troops were casualties on the first day of the battle. 19,240 were dead before breakfast. The British opened the battle with a 1.5 million shell barrage. It achieved almost nothing. The entire battle only achieved the capture of 6 miles of land. Technology did not overcome numeric superiority. But still the lesson was not learned. In 1917 the British tried using tanks as a force multiplier at Cambrai. 476 tanks roared towards the German lines. In the next 17 days the British suffered 75,681 casualties, including 10,042 dead. There was no victory, in fact the British lost more ground than they took. Numeric superiority was achieved with the mobilisation of 4.7 million US troops in 1918. Within months the war was over. And STILL we do not tattoo onto the back of hands “numeric superiority outweighs technical superiority”. We just keep sending high tech weapons to Ukraine and wonder why they aren’t winning.

[@richardjames4632]

Generally speaking, I would agree, but there is one aspect of modern warfare where technology is critical and that is air-power and particularly drones. Domination of the air is critical in any modern war.

[@rosshilton]

@@richardjames4632 Agreed but again, only if you have volume. A hundred drones against a million men will not win a battle. The advantage of drones is indeed the ability to cheaply access battlefield volume. The US had almost total air superiority in Vietnam (including helicopter movement capability) and still could not win. The principle problem with technology is cost. War is an expensive exercise for any nation. To achieve technology volume can easily bring a nation to its knees - in fact the cold war ended because the USSR finally realised it couldn’t keep up defence technology spending to keep up with the USA.

[@pistoneteo]

I expect that women will serve exactly the same time and in the same capacity as men. Oh and inmigrants who benefit from social benefits too.

[@omarmansuri7099]

One of the few advantages of living in a country with a giant population, is that I don't have to worry about military conscription. There's more than enough people in line to volunteer, before they start having to resort to conscription.

[@justthymen5363]

True but for small countries, such as the dutch army only has 50k soldiers, which is a joke compared to russia fo example.

[@ascelot]

Will never volunteer to help British army, one needs to feel patriotic, something worth defending. At this moment, I dont feel that my country is something that I would want to risk my life for.

[@only_fair23]

​@@ascelotWhat about your family?

[@ascelot]

@@only_fair23 Came to that, simply emigrate to another country.

[@MagicNash89]

@@only_fair23 He can defend his family by buying a gun. That's why its permitted to get one in the first place. He doesnt need to join the Army for that.

[@rafel73]

Nobody in Spain is talking about reinstating conscription. And nobody will do it because it's impossible

[@nasko6839]

I am not fighting old people's wars, sorry.

[@RuffinItAB]

Im in my early 20's and I was interested in joining the CAF. I scored well in all the tests and got to the point where all I had to do was sign the contract but I never went through with it for several reasons: 1) The difficulty of having a family while being active duty. 2) The stifling effects of a strict chain of command putting assholes in positions of power who would have direct control over my quality of life 3) absolute garbage pay. Not only lower than i expected, but the deductions and costs were much higher as well. I now work on a wildfire crew where i have full room and board, decent pay for a job that has no requirements outside of provided training and a fitness test, and the chain of command is much more relaxed. NATO militaries are losing people because they can only rely on having those who are either at the bottom of the barrel, or those who are willing to sacrifice a lot of their freedom and income to serve, which isnt many people. They need a significant culture shift

[@joshhua5]

There's no chance I'll ever follow an order for conscription. I'd fight, if the government was fighting for me, but how rich is it to be exploited as a means of existence and then demanding you sacrifice the rest for the system that exploited you in the first place.

[@MatthiasDrinksH20]

Yup, they already take half your money, and they still want your life too.

[@RafaelW8]

Bring mandatory conscription for women as well

[@GRBoi1993]

The reason for young people’s unwillingness to join the military is varied and not merely vapid. The GWOT heavily tainted the idea of “fighting for your country”. I’m sure many more, if not most, would be willing to join if their nation was directly threatened. However it has to be said that active EU efforts to damage national pride in European states (in particular) definitely hasn’t helped in building a sense of civic duty in western state which haven’t been threatened since the end of WWII.

[@okman9684]

If it's gonna happen we need conscription for both men and women. Gender Equality ♂️=♀️✊

[@zzzzoot]

Why should young poor people die so that a small number of elite families can stay rich...?

[@Damychad]

I don't know but it's not like we can do anything to it In Russia there are tons off people willing to fight and tbh I don't really want to lose what little freedom I still have as a human being

[@sanguiniue]

Let me tell you a joke that tells you why A worker sees the owner of his company pull up in a Rolls Royce . The worker says "wow what a nice car !" The owner says "well son if you keep being such a hard worker for me , i will be able to aford another one in a few years" This joke permeates everything in our society right now. We are given no reason to work within the system just to keep others rich. Why would anyone fight and die for it. "The dream that was rome" is effectively dead

[@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753]

You do realize that in the West life expectancy and prosperity for everyone has increased during the last 120 years despite two worldwars!

[@syntaxlost9239]

@@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753 You realise the youth aren't seeing those gains overall? They're all going, "Hang on, my parents purchased a house, raised a family all on a single wage working what job? And they remained with that employer for how many years?" You can't defend serving a shit sandwich by saying the last 119 sandwiches were perfectly delectable. That's still a shit sandwich.

[@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753]

@@syntaxlost9239 I guess your parents did that between 60-85?

[@syntaxlost9239]

@@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753 They did that at the age of 24 on the back of less than a high school diploma. There is no way on Earth you're doing that in the present day.

[@tobiasphilippwittlinger8753]

@@syntaxlost9239 Look these were the golden years! Do you know how it was in the 19th century? Things are not perfect but they are pretty damn close(!), or when was the last time that you had to go to bed dirty and hungry?

[@TonyFapioni]

Imagine wanting to fight for a nation which is actively replacing your culture and people lol. Plus, on top of that, we see how our governments treats our veterans...

[@GrillerRohde]

There’s hope for change and I still rather fight for my country with all its flaws than surrender to Russia or China.

[@kerstas10]

Lol, imagine beeing concured by russia or china.

[@TonyFapioni]

@@kerstas10 conquered?

[@aAverageFan]

Western countries hate men but want men to protect itself

[@DeadNoob451]

@@GrillerRohde Yeah, but that change will never come by defending the government that is preventing it. Soviet union did not fall because people did what they were told either.

[@huwgrossmith9555]

Fight for country depends on the threat. Not BS like Iraq 2 and Afghanistan

[@EthanQix]

Of course older people are more keen on mandatory conscription than younger people. They're not the ones that will be affected.

[@Bengaltiger1289]

Their take is "As long as it isn't me then I couldn't care less"

[@Luthies]

I'm not sure how reliable the graph at 3:20 realistically is. For a lot of the western european countries "fighting for your country" means foreign expeditions to africa or middle east, not defending your own country or europe against invaders.

[@cooltwittertag]

because it is clinically insane to pretend that any of the european countries are under any serious military threat right now. There is a war, but they way the war is going should be telling everyone how big of a threat against all of NATO they really are. The answer is they arent.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

That's at least what you hope.

[@YourLittleDeath]

The funny thing is when it comes to talk of defending one's own country in Western Europe in many of those countries defending your own home is actually against the law.

[@Jessel-nm1ly]

Show loyalty to a country. Military service.

[@niklasalexanderBjerkeland]

If citizens are not willing to voluntarily go to war for their country, then the country is not worth being preserved in my opinion. Citizens are not pawns on a chess board or slaves of the state they happened to be born in, they have free will which should be respected!

[@jiggy7108]

If you're not willing to fight for you country, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the benefits your country offers

[@damnedmadman]

​@@jiggy7108 Benefits? So you're one of those who believe that politicians are Santas giving out presents from their own pockets?

[@jiggy7108]

@@damnedmadman no, I'm not a politician. I am however saying that there are benefits to living in a country, if there weren't, you'd leave. And if you aren't willing to fight for your country, you shouldn't be allowed to benefit from living in your country

[@loeffelm]

@@jiggy7108 Sick logic. If I have to die to enjoy the supposed benefits, well, I’d rather not enjoy these benefits and find a plan B.

[@damnedmadman]

@@jiggy7108 No, I wouldn't leave. It's the bad politicians who should leave. I have no other country than my fatherland.

[@sven7736]

You're not dying for your country, you're dying for politicians.

[@damonm113]

The Nike graphic was priceless. 😂

[@Red_Comet_Char_Aznable]

"You might not be interested in war, but war is interested in you". -Leon Trotsky

[@PLuMUK54]

In the UK, fewer and fewer people probably have a positive view of military service because of demographics. I am almost 70, and compulsory service had ended before I was old enough to be affected. I would not have wanted to be in the military, and I would be unhappy if young people, who already face economic difficulties, had to waste a year of their lives. I base that judgement on the worth of compulsory military service through what my father told me of his time. Interestingly, I've noted several comments that confirm that military service is similar in other countries. I am also concerned that the suggestion seems to be compulsory service for men. What about women? I know lots of women who would make better soldiers than men.

[@happyd6426]

as a woman i agree, i think all women should be drafted equally. but i think the responsibility is on men to stop acting like apes and actually respect them as human beings, because many women who serve only receive assault and harrasment as thanks.

[@rootpill]

The decline in military recruitment can't be detached from the broader societal shifts ongoing. As we move towards a border-less liberal ideology, emphasizing individualism and questioning traditional structures, the appeal and sense of duty towards national service will obviously diminish. This isn't about policy changes or recruitment strategies; it's simply reflective of a deeper transformation in how nationalism and collective identity are being deconstructed.

[@malogibeaux4946]

first I think that you're mistaking patriotism for nationalism. Then, border-less? Where did you saw that? And then traditional structures have been challenged by the young for decades, and it's now that there's a problem? Somethin fishy going on.

[@rootpill]

@@malogibeaux4946 Patriotism and nationalism are cut from the same cloth when it comes to military service - both fuel the will to serve. 'border-less'? It is the ideology eroding the very concept of nation-states, international liberalism. As for traditional structures and the youth challenging them, it is only within recent history that this has become a majority opinion and translated into a tangible hit on recruitment numbers. When the fabric of society changes, do not be surprised when its institutions start to fray. It is not 'fishy'; it's the predictable outcome of major societal changes.

[@malogibeaux4946]

@@rootpill well I don't think I can uphold an argument abt all this in a comment section, but just know the difference between patriotism and nationalism with rhese 2 sentences: patriotism:" I like my country" nationalism:"My country is better than other countries" And also It's just not logic that in a time where there less and less young people, the challenging spirit of yougn people would be majoritory. Especially with all the fascism going on.

[@FirefoxisredExplorerisblueGoog]

@@malogibeaux4946 That's a very American view of nationalism. Nationalism - at its core and premise - is just having a country for an ethnicity (nation) e.g. Czechia for the Czech, Finland for the Fins, Romania for the Romanians, etc. This is what the 1848 European revolutions were all about.

[@badart3204]

⁠@@malogibeaux4946nationalism in its original ideology is “my ethnicity should have a country”. It emerged when Europe and the Middle East were dominated by massive empires of many peoples and a modern example of nationalism would be Kurdish people trying to establish a Kurdish state to break free of Turkish, Syrian, and Iraqi rule. The nation is the people and the state is the government.

[@gloriathomas3245]

military service should be voluntary. At the same time I'm glad to see Gen Z seeing through the sham of military service. And speaking of, I happened to know people who were Afghan and Iraq vets and doing their best to discourage younger people from joining the military.

[@corny2603]

As a gen Z im all for consctiption. There is a swedish saying (Gör din plikt, kräv din rätt.) which means Do your duty, Get your rights. You are not born with rights you earn your rights.

[@Seth9809]

Paying taxes and voting is enough

[@xyphoon5013]

@@corny2603 You are born with rights, it's how our system works

[@corny2603]

@@xyphoon5013 You sound like the brittish aristocracy.

[@legitplayin6977]

@@corny2603Least right wing femboy:

[@PutlerXLO]

Just don’t forget that modern society has overcome sexism, which is why women must also serve in the army.

[@malogibeaux4946]

it definitively hasn't.

[@andeve3]

The scandinavian model mentioned in the video is gender neutral, meaning both men and women are conscripted (though the video instead says "a small percentage of men", which is misleading). This is the system in Norway and Sweden, but not in Finland (which is a nordic country but not scandinavian) nor in Denmark where women are not conscripted.

[@johnfox2975]

women should not. who is gonna be at home?

[@generaltom6850]

​@@johnfox2975 What? That sounds quite sexist but if there is a war, there probably won't be a home to return to.

[@thewonderfultartiflette4733]

2:08 please, stop with scales not going to 0. With graphs like these, you could make a "110 → 105" information look like it's going from 110 to 10. It's extremely misleading for viewer. That's it, I have been watching TLDR for a year or two, but over time things like that have been worse and worse, going as far as just not labeling graphs, unsubscribed. I'll look for an alternative Edit : I hope TLDR is reading the comments so that they can see feedback

[@axelwickm]

Not really. It's standard practice, and they clearly label it. It would also be hard to see the trendline on small devices.

[@texanplayer7651]

The graph goes from 100 to 70 It may not start at 0, but there is little room for "graph manipulation" here in the first place. The trend is going down significantly regardless. A good graph doesn't always start at 0. If they showed the same graph starting from 0, then 70% of it would be useless information.

[@thewonderfultartiflette4733]

@@axelwickm "they clearly label it" May I remind you that very often, they show graphs that do not have any scale/label

[@thewonderfultartiflette4733]

@@texanplayer7651 my point is that with such a graph, it's much much harder to gauge the difference, because the scale is pretty much arbitrary, not standard. I'm not sure why you say "there is little room for graph manipulation", I don't agree with that. For example, if the country of Aztotzka had its GDP go from €500B to €497B, with a graph that scales from 505 to 495, the visible difference would be massive, when in reality it's really not much. It just means that we just "trust" TLDR that the graph they show is actually representative, which is absolutely not ideal I think

[@aimlessarrow8140]

@@thewonderfultartiflette4733 But you used the graph at 2:08 specifically as an example and they responded to that criticism and as a Data Analyst who uses graphs a lot it's a perfectly usable and understandable graph. Texanplayer7651 is correct, good graphs don't always start at 0 and that 70% of it would practically be useless information anyway. As long as it provides clear and understandable information it's done its job. If the data itself doesn't go below or higher than the set limits its perfectly acceptable. Edit: a good example of this are weather reports during certain seasons in the US, or even Employment rates of countries with low unemployment rates. Graphs that start above 0 do so to highlight a difference between data points. For instance if you claim employment rates are down 5% starting your graph at 0 doesn't really show the impact that kind of figure does for employment and reduces the amount of alarm that should be raised at a very significant change in employment rates.

[@matthewlynch9331]

MIstake at 6:13. It says Latvia decided to bring back conscription last year but the graphic says 2024

[@Entety303]

Latvia started effecting it this year and accepted it last year

[@pronumeral1446]

Conscription is slavery. You are forced to do labour against your will, and if you refuse you are punished by being put in prison. Conscription can only be justified when there is an existential threat to the state.

[@Dread_2137]

your country has weird conscription

[@pronumeral1446]

@@Dread_2137 My country doesn't have conscription (anymore). In every country I can think of, conscription means you are forced to work in the military (whether you want to or not) and if you refuse, you get criminally prosecuted.

[@Dread_2137]

@@techtutorvideos yeah, that's normal, but i wouldn't call is slavery. Just another form of work, unless we classify a construction worker as a slave. Not to mention that conscription is only used when your country is in danger (in countries without active conscription). Idk about other countries, but when we still had conscriptions, everyone was paid a little less then national average, which here is actually good money. Tho until end of 80s, when we were still russian puppet state and under communism, from my parents stories conscripts weren't paid, and that was actual slavery, just like 2-3month of training and then 2 years of being unpaid construction worker.

[@SlimJim3082]

Europe has so many immigrants from africa and the middle east. Conscript them if they wanna prove their loyalty to your country. Women included.

[@georgedevries3992]

These immigrants have been sent here to convert our blessed continent into an Islam paradise. They are here to create discord and Chaos when the signal will be given.

[@eruno_]

it's curious how majority of countries bordering Russia have conscription 🤔

[@d3nny_s3mpai]

I mean, do they even have a choice considering the unpredictability of Russia

[@gnrseanra9070]

@@d3nny_s3mpai Was it Russia moving West or NATO moving East? As Mike Lee asked John Kirby....can you answer please be honest

[@tanker00v25]

^Don't feed the bots

[@ThePawcios]

@@gnrseanra9070 I will answer. Russia is the best NATO recruiter, and I think its not decision of Nato or Russia to expand or not but the democratic choice of free countries what they want to do.

[@d3nny_s3mpai]

@@gnrseanra9070 As a individual who wants nothing but to live in safety and with enough freedom of market and travel, why would I elaborate on anyone's behalf?

[@dirik009]

If AI and robots will replace us all, why you don't send them to protect your companies and factories?

[@TeddyKrimsony]

because they want to get rid of us

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

I can see the resistance from industry, especially given such a tight labor market, and from employees in general, given the opportunity cost of rising wages outside the military.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

What industry ? It is moving out because of the same idiots who now want more militarism.

[@SusCalvin]

Part of the law here included job protection. They can't fire you for being conscripted. They must make do without the conscripted worker for a few months or more and then take you back. Some jobs are protected. Power workers, rail lines, hospital staff etc. They are pressed into doing their day jobs.

[@marcpedneault3362]

I will not fight for these elite sociopaths

[@yookalaylee2289]

A video about conscription narrated by a woman with sponsored content feels very dystopian.

[@Pedri1988]

I am Dutch, and would be the first to escape my country to escape militairy service. I am not willing to fight for a piece of earth reclaimed by a state, even less if it's a nuclear war, it would be a ticking time bomb before the nuclear energy would bring me to my knees unable to live (in a good health) Over centuries people fought for their leaders to defend the interest of those in a higher position, there is no direct reward for the soldier, and usually ends up with an traumatic experience for life because of all they witnessed.

[@ASS_ault]

You won't be able to escape the country.

[@Kingtiens]

I was in the British army, they pay you 2 pound an hour to be treated like dogshit. Don't do it.

[@taboerius]

Service itself is not a problem. The government is the problem. No one is gonna fight for the interests of global financial government