Why Evergrande Collapsed - Our Chinese Houses Crumbled

[@ADVChina]

Go to NordVPN.com/ADVChina to get a huge discount on a 2-year plan plus 4 additional free months. It’s risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! Support our work! - patreon.com/advpodcasts Support us and the channel on Paypal! - paypal.me/advchina

[@DaedalusHelios]

@George Washington Well I had to upvote a guy that came back from the grave just to say that. I knew you would wake up eventually, after all that turning over in your grave you did in the last 200 years.

[@PatRick1981-s1w]

FOMO.. Fear of missing out

[@powershift2025]

Any property that can be collapsed with a sneeze and a Big Fart isn't worth Xit. 😊

[@scienceandmatter8739]

I Love you Guys really a Little journay now for Little over 2 YEARS what a coincidence i discovered the Channels 2019 and since then ITS Been a Ride with Beauty and true UGLY .....TRIBUTES from Germany. Looking Forward to See you around discovering Europe and Translating even Here a Lot of crap going on

[@PatRick1981-s1w]

Come to clean the apartment and it's collapsed

[@beaubalentine4403]

When the news broke about Evergrande literally the first thing I thought about were those videos you guys made a couple years ago calling the Chinese real estate bubble. Was really looking forward to this follow up; thank you.

[@marcschaeffer1584]

Same, I actually watched a couple of their old videos for kicks

[@mybad8805]

The emperor has no clothes on.

[@MakalaDoulos]

Same

[@somesortofdeliciousbiscuit3704]

@@mybad8805 The emperor is dressed as Pooh the bear

[@theintrovertedcalifornian5047]

I was telling friends and relatives about this 7 years ago and they thought I was crazy lol

[@repalmore]

I'm a certified concrete inspector and experienced materials inspector. I can't give an inspection by sight but I sure as hell can give an opinion based on what I see. I was in china and there were high rise condos that were going up near where I was staying. I went over just to watch what was going on because of my experience in the construction industry. The concrete that I saw was incredibly runny (very high slump) and there is no way that I would want to live in anything constructed from concrete that looked like really runny oatmeal. The poor quality is just insane.

[@MrCountrycuz]

I have concrete experience and what you say is dead on the money!

[@JohnSmith-co7qt]

Just wanted to throw this in.Due to the cultural corruption sea sand was used to make concrete.Its going to get alot uglier in china.

[@victorsong8416]

The problem is THEFT. The spec is so many bags of cement to so much water, sand and aggregate. But they STEAL the cement... No inspections with core samples, or because of the endemic corruption, they bribe the inspector. You have a nation of 1.3 billion WITHOUT honesty, ethics and integrity (and therefore self-respect). It's a surefire recipe (in the long run) for failure and stagnation. China believes its own hubris, yet it is a house of cards; they don't have the ethical foundation to build a thriving successful society and country to last.

[@daneaxe6465]

My kid was in Vietnam and a building construction started next door. It was a poured concrete 3 story house. What shocked me was the pile of long tree branches next to the foundation. Actually the pile didn't shock me but the fact tree branches were used as rebar!! If I hadn't seen the multiple photos I'd not believed it. The climate in VN rots everything even if properly made but tree rebar was a Ripley's Believe It or Not.

[@G_de_Coligny]

Do you have video tutorials speaking on construction-side concrete methods/tech ? In highschool I was often getting summer jobs in construction. Still love the smell of wet concrete so much cooler in summer.

[@WuhanMan2013]

This is absolutely true. I lived in Wuhan for 5 years and journeyed all over China and saw the same thing. I lived in a villa (or a McMansion as we called it) and once saw a 2nd floor patio collapse across the street from us. The front of the complex had a magnificent fountain at the front and never worked once since the day most of the units were sold. I worked for a large building materials company making cement and we were astounded when market research showed that the average lifespan of a building in China was only 20 years. That’s good for our business but where are all these people going to go when their apartments are falling down or being torn down? This is an across-the-country time bomb ticking now.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

"People in China believe there's no way property prices can ever go down." That's how you know it's a bubble. When people get angry when you talk about systemic risks. That's true for property, stocks, gold, crypto, technology, tulip bulbs, and everything else.

[@Zebleblic]

Hey my 10,000 tulips are going to be worth a lot of money one day.

[@warrenlauzon5315]

@@Zebleblic And your Beanie Babies too!

[@davidneufeld26]

But... but... It's too BIG too fail!

[@MrYutoob]

lol tullip bulbs. nice!

[@stusanderson3111]

also Donny and especially Ivanka !!

[@Rembd]

My uncle who has built 2 personal properties in the US is building a home in the mainland. And he's had to step back and let the wife manage it because the things the contractors were doing drove him insane. Sometimes the contractor would show up to his property with no tools, or using the wrong materials, lack of common sense etc. Also apparently central heating and cooling does not exist in China? They had to redo the entire floor plans just so his house could have modern, 'western-style' HVAC. The neighbors would call him and his wife stupid and senseless for stabilizing the soil with gravel and cement before paving the driveway. These people are arrogant farmers with no real knowledge of what they are doing.

[@PibrochPonder]

Arrogant and stupid sums it up

[@breakingames7772]

wtf are these dudes talking about? so 1 million dollars is what he said for a 700sq ft apartment? he said dollars, so my question is where do the 2 billion chinese live? they all live in the streets? this makes zero sense

[@Ryfinius]

Woah, look at Mr. Rockefeller laying a sturdy foundation for his house! What next, are you grounding your electricity?

[@BearMeOut]

@@breakingames7772 stop spaming that same comment over and over, get creative

[@MrCtsSteve]

@@Ryfinius lol. No kidding right ? ..lol

[@ryanengle3188]

I had first hand experience seeing this in China. Specifically in the surrounding areas of Shanghai. Taking the fast speed train, 300kph train around the city. You would see these clusters of Buildings out in the middle of nowhere. I had the chance to visit one of these ghost cities. They are put up over ancient farm land. The people that have spent hundreds of years farming the land were given 4 Apartments to sell as payment for their land and one to live in. And yes i visited one of these cities. Well, there was no heat, no hot water. Apparently south of the Yellow river, they were not required to install heat. this extends to Hotels etc. It was 50ish deg F and everyone was sitting around in winter coats. Cooking with fire outside. They had no way to pay for Gas or electricity to run the Apt they were given. It was very troubling to see. All these people displaced and their lively hood taken away with no way to make a living. When i asked about it. I was told the Chinese economy was based on how many buildings were built each year, or concrete poured. I looked at my wife and said this economy will collapse in less than 10 years. It was astounding to see. You would be on the bullet train and see a cluster of buildings in the middle of no where, 2 min another cluster etc and so on. And also, the train was basically empty. Most all were unless you were probably within 30min of the main City. Dont get me started on the main Cities. Inside them where "Tourists" go. Looks amazing but if you looked close enough eg. the sidewalks were falling apart, cracked, loose tiles etc. It was as if no one did any maintenance. And this was downtown Shanghai. You would turn the corner down the street away from the Tourism and it was a shadow realm. I know there are Cities like this everywhere. But this was on a whole different level. I'm not trying to act like something similar doesnt exist in Cities like NYC Detroit etc. But unless you have been to China you really cannot argue this. I have been there 5 times to different provences and Cities. The best place i have been was Xiamen. That is a coastal college town, but it was the most "Normal" and i had a great time there. If anyone wants to know more feel free to ask me. I spent a bunch of time in China and Taiwan.

[@MsAnaheimgirl]

My coworkers said same. They asked about this wall that was block after block and no one would tell them why. Later they found out, the homeless live behind these walls . They were hiding the truth. Unfortunately I cannot recall which city it was.

[@Doggieman1111]

I appreciate you sharing your observations, most economists discussing China right now have never even been there, let alone seen what you have.

[@vampir753]

OK, I'll ask: since you were in Taiwan and China: How much differs the attitude of the people? I would expect that Taiwan is much more "normal" than China with actual altruism i.e. people helping you when you are falling on the street, do maintenance on their buildings, do not sell you literal poison for food etc. (From all what i have seen about China so far it seems like their society lacks any kind of altruism that you see in most western countries. I would be interested in if you can confirm this and how different Taiwan is in this regard).

[@goldenboy6667]

@@vampir753 i bet taiwan are much2 better than china mainland oh i mean west taiwan

[@ryanengle3188]

@@vampir753 please excuse the delayed reply. I got pretty sick for about a week. And no it wasnt the Covid. As for the people. the people in Taiwan were much more friendly as a whole. When i would go out by myself and walk around Taipei I would have always have very nice people coming up to me to talk to me. Thanking me for visiting their country, asking where i was from etc. They were very excited to see me and show me some of their favorite spots for local food etc. China was the complete opposite and was actually told by my wife, who grew up in china Taiwan. Not to go outside after Dark and to stay with the group when we were walking around. Everyone from china pretty much just walked around with their heads down minding their own business. This was my experience in Shanghai and the surrounding areas. I will say the City of Xiamen was much more friendly. But im thinking thats bc it is more of a touristy/college type City. The Bar we went to that was on the beach, the name escapes me atm, was actually owned by a man from Texas. I met him that night he was very nice and happy to see someone from the States. JJ's Bar and Grill is the spot.

[@AlecMuller]

In 2010, I went to Pinghu for work (2 hours south of Shanghai), and we did a test-drive event at an abandoned resort right on the ocean. It was less than 5 years old and falling apart. I can't imagine how many villages they bulldozed just to build it. Makes you angry.

[@mikewalsh9041]

When I lived there I observed: an innate unwillingness to maintain properties or any other capital investment; no zoning; no inspectors; no trade standards; no legal penalties; and made guys (Party members) doing whatever they want.

[@jayfelsberg1931]

"Made guys" sounds appropriate

[@ligmasack9038]

Welcome to Communism, where some are more Equal than others...

[@darthkek1953]

Lots of zoning, inspectors, trade standards and legal penalties. What there is NOT is enforcement.

[@alexbarnett8541]

Well that's great that the real estate market is collapsing. Hopefully Armageddon is next on the agenda. Fingers crossed 🤞🤞🤞

@@jayfelsberg1931 at least some made guys from Mafia were/are likeable (like e.g Michael Franzese), those party tools at all

[@jif.6821]

My nephew used to live in Qing Dao in a brand new 3 bedroom apartment which he was paying $150.00 a month. My son went to visit him, about 6 months after my nephew moved in, and it was already falling apart. He said in the lobby and halls there were holes developing in the walls, and inside the holes it was stuffed with newspaper. My son saw a repairman stuffing more paper in the wall, and covering it with what looked like plaster. Crappy build, crappy repairs. I had allot of friends living in China back between 2008 and 2018, but fortunately they all got out before everything went crazy there.

[@mavfan1]

I was at a conference in 2008-2009 where a rep from Lone Star Funds said when he was in China if an agent took him towards buildings that didn’t have AC units in the windows he’d tell them to turn around. No AC means no residents. Speculation has been going on for a long time.

[@strictnonconformist7369]

That’s an interesting straightforward low-tech benchmark for human occupation from a distance. Depending on the buildings designs you’d expect from a distance, combined with climate, you’d expect people to want to pay extra to keep cooler than the building would naturally provide.

[@msnhao]

Next year after he left: “The fake air conditioner business is booming. Nobody knows why so many people want cardboard ACs!”

[@noizW]

OK, here in europe we don't use AC neither. But the House we build last for centuries...

[@strictnonconformist7369]

@@msnhao based on what the video shows, that is a logical progression!

[@WuhanMan2013]

Another tip, just drive by at night and look for lights in the apartments.

[@carbonstar9091]

Dang. 3 years of wear on those buildings looks more like 30-50 years with zero maintenance on a properly built structure.

[@CaptainKremmen]

Or more. I'm pretty sure there are buildings made of bluestone that would be better than that after 150 years.

[@johnbacon4997]

Dude it looks like there was a war in that neighborhood.

[@mjouwbuis]

@@GiantTech so who should we believe and why? you? don't let me laugh. Also, if someone is a con artist, there should be something in it for them. Please explain yourself.

[@michaelwebster6219]

That's what I say it's way more than 3 years. What street is it I want to find out and prove this 2 wrong

[@Criminalupper2200]

@@GiantTech Tofu Dreg construction is a very well known thing in China, you will hear it talked about among chinese people all the time. it's not just these 2, this is a very well known thing.

[@hemmper]

Italy got 1000 year old stone houses that people still live in. Maybe we all could learn something there.

[@stevem815]

You can see in the background video that the old Chinese village buildings are fine. They last hundreds of years as well.

[@DrCruel]

This is not an ethnic problem. It happens everywhere that socialists gain power.

[@stevem815]

@@DrCruel it's nothing to do with socialism, it's just shitty construction. It happens everywhere, and I say that as a building contractor. It just gets really bad where there are huge construction booms because of property market bubbles because everyone is making money on whatever junk they pump out no matter what it is. Same thing happens in all the western countries too whenever it's allowed to.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

@@DrCruel there are buildings like that all over Sicily. Mafia related. Not nearly as bad, but new Sydney apartments have construction problems, builders are now allowed to hire the people certifying the construction is good. That was a change brought in by a free market government.

[@blest5132]

@@stevem815 my dad bought a brand new condo on staten island for crazy money in the 80's, 2 years later you can see all nailheads pushing out, thin walls, leaks, real trash. but still sold for big profit 10 years later 🤷‍♂️

[@deanchur]

When I was in Chengdu I stayed in a house (actual house, not apartment) in a gated community that had an RMB 8-figure entry price. Even that place has uneven flooring and tiles coming unglued. Then there's Global Center; USD$500M to build and 5 years after opening there were buckets in the foyer to catch the falling water when it rained.

[@500dollarjapanesetoaster8]

Wow, this is an entire "ripoff" society. You'd have better luck in the Macao casinos than hoping for long term appreciation. They've wasted all that effort (and whatever materials) and will have nothing to show for it in 10 yrs time. This is a echo of the 60s in China where the govt wanted metals, so people got all their pots taken. Of course, you can't make steel with pot metals, so again, shitty result and all wasted. Their condition will be lower every time they do cycles of this. This is even crazier than I had ever thought in terms of speculation.

[@Watcher4111]

Its made in china no wonder

[@mgraemem]

This was very interesting. I've a bit of history in the Vancouver B.C. area and real estate there is so expensive because many Chinese people buy property there and never actually come and live. This has driven the price of real estate out of reach for most Canadians in that area. Market distortions . . . .

[@ayylien]

Interesting video, I talked to a chinese foreign student once and he was shocked how the USA had old building and cars and was proud of how in China everything was "new". Now I know why everything is new because the construction is so bad they have to keep building and rebuilding.

[@annarboriter]

I worked in a training school and was told when I arrived that they would be relocating because there was a fear that the school was in an old building, hurting the school's reputation. The building was 5 years old

[@annarboriter]

@Andy Man Yeah, and the mainlanders have little but indifference or contempt for such old things. As Hessler has pointed out, there is no university research conducted on the "Great Wall". It's only documented by volunteers, usually retired. Liang Sicheng studied at Chicago before he could return to the RoC to do his field research to identify what are the manmade structures that you refer to

[@mrn234]

The US doesnt really has old building compared to Europe. Heck even my father lives in a House that is 500 years old.

[@annarboriter]

@@mrn234 *Parts of the house are 500 years old.

[@mrn234]

@@annarboriter no

[@NSResponder]

Hey guys, have you heard anything about counterfeit or adulterated cement? I have a friend who recently left China for NZ, and he told me that the last place he lived had poured concrete walls that were just spalling and crumbling after two years because the sacks of cement used to make the concrete were diluted with inert material. They'd look OK when you stripped the forms, but it didn't take long to start deteriorating. Dangerous a hell.

[@DukeOfTwist]

That can happen when using unwashed beach sand, There are reports of mass ocean dredging for sand for construction. Washed river sand & clean aggregate and Portland cement makes the best concrete for general use, high Mpa is expensive to mix and should be batch and cured pour site samples sent for lab testing.

[@abyssstrider2547]

@@DukeOfTwist Yeah but cement was mixed with something else. For all we know they could have mixed it with dirt or ground stone or something.

[@carso1500]

@@abyssstrider2547 they fill the walls with coarse sand you can find videos of people breaking through walls with their hands

[@abyssstrider2547]

@@carso1500 Oh wow.

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

@@abyssstrider2547 There are two common things that are added to cement: fly ash and ground granulated blast furnace slag (there are others). These materials - in the presence of enough cement - act like a weaker version of cement and bind to the cement when it reacts with water to form concrete. These materials are known as "pozzolans". It's fairly common to use some of one of these pozzolans. It saves money because it replaces cement in the concrete mix and usually doesn't significantly weaken the concrete. But if you use two much of it then the concrete will be significantly weakened which can result in premature failures. I don't know of anything else you could or would add to concrete that would enable the concrete to not collapse immediately. However if spalling has been observed then probably the rebar has been rusting as this is one of the few things that causes spalling. Rebar corrosion is usually because the amount of concrete between the rebar and the surface of the concrete is too small - this condition is called "insufficient concrete cover". Designing and constructing to the right amount of concrete cover is neglected to save money because it's cheaper to make thinner walls and you can still have them handle the design loads.

[@Kwolfx]

Around 2009 a book was published which was titled "This Time it's Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly" by Carmen M. Reinhart and Kenneth F Rogoff. It's a really good book which compares various financial crisis going back to the Middle Ages. The authors are still with us. I think future editions will need to be updated to include China's real estate bubble. Many of the previous economic disasters had one thing in common. People; often self proclaimed experts, would claim "This time, this situation is different. Forget the old rules of market valuation. This new economic miracle has little or no similarity to past disasters." They were always wrong. So, it should come as no surprise that the claim that Chinese real estate would never decline in value is also turning out to be false.

[@NegatingSilence]

"We're not experts in economics" It doesn't take an expert in economics to realize that bazillions of dollars invested in crumbling vacant eggshells must eventually have some kind of repurcussions. In fact, economics experts are pretty much the only people who can believe otherwise.

[@Doggieman1111]

Economists can't see the forest for the trees. They're not down on the street observing these crumbling hulks for themselves; they're sitting in plush offices looking at numbers on spreadsheets.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

@@Doggieman1111 Yet their principles describe reality and predict trends in macro scale. The Chinese housing bubble was also what the spreadsheets pointed out. Massive malinvestment.

[@JohnSmith-vn8dm]

But the economists have been warning about this housing bubble in China for ages. Its literally a repeat of what happened to the Japanese economy. Massive amounts of wasted spending and investment into dead end projects + a demographic collapse led to the lost decade. Investors like Chanos have seen it coming.

[@carso1500]

@@Doggieman1111 economic experts have been predicting this for fucking decades, it even became kind of a meme how everyone keept saying that China's economy was going down the drain yet it never seemed to happen Until it actually happened

[@gwho]

@@Doggieman1111 tell that to Milton Friedman. and many other economists. you're describing a subset of economists. and crunching numbers is essential to the practice too, fyi.

[@yogibearstie]

I really liked those old videos of new buildings falling apart.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

A vision of a future Post-Wh1t3 society.

[@QuixEnd]

Excuse me? China only has amazing buildings. How could you possibly know what China's apartments look like if you haven't been here? These people are just defaming the great China, they know nothing

[@AmexL]

This comment is about to get underrated status.

[@equallawandorder5393]

Same as what Newsom wants in CA. ✅🤡

[@dyu8184]

@@QuixEnd Great joke! Underrated tbh

[@dzyubin]

Glad you guys brought this up! It really ties in with all the videos you've done on the shoddy constructions and empty cities.

[@Chris.Davies]

When you showed us all that decaying housing in China, both new and old, I asked myself, "How long can a real estate market possibly last, when the houses fall apart in just a few years, and no one repairs them? Here in NZ, I live in a 100 year old wooden home, albeit after massive earthquake repairs, but most of the house is that old. I'd expect it to last another 50 years at least. And NZ homes are considered not to be permanent.

[@BurgerKingNationalist]

Good luck with satanist woman president.

[@concept5631]

@@BurgerKingNationalist How original.

[@OffGridInvestor]

It shows how much their minds are in a bubble. After years of denying their lying eyes under communism, IS IT A SURPRISE. I had a chinese boss in a vineyard talking about how good the place was and I would feel like saying "what vineyard are you talking about? You've got 300 meters of CONTINUALLY dead grapevines in areas here". They would break off at ground level and start swinging in the wing and leave a big scratch line in the dirt where the stem was blowing back and forwards.

[@alecstahl2387]

I´ve bought property in China. Because the apartments get rotten so quickly I bought it new and sold it 5 years later at 3x the price. The day I bought it I already knew I would sell it. As you guys said the apartment was provided with naked floors, and water pipes (only cold water) sticking out. There was western style toilet though.

[@einfelder8262]

The toilet waste pipe just went to the street.

[@puzer1]

...so you just described a literal Ponzi scheme...you made it out of this one with a profit...now talk about the one you lost your ass in...

[@cosettapessa6417]

@@puzer1 yeah for real

[@peskyjay1091]

You're part of part of the problem Alec

[@alecstahl2387]

@@peskyjay1091 Nope. I am an investor who bought a property, lived in it, and sold it later on. I don't like to pay rent that's all.

[@sandyj342]

This is by far the best video on why Evergrande like situation happened! You guys showed this almost 1.5 yrs back.

[@StorytellerStudios]

The 2008 financial crisis was set up by similar problems with real estate and lending. A few analysts asked the American banks and lending institutions (before the collapse), "What do your algorithms predict if real estate prices drop, even slightly?" The answer was "Our computer models aren't set up to take that into account." China's present crisis is similar and could lead to a world wide recession again.

[@carso1500]

Fortunately the world isnt as dependant on china as it is on the US, it was going that way but covid + the trade war + just the general attitude of the chinese goverment has caused plenty of companies to leave china and invest in other places which will probably cushion the blow It's still likely to cause problems specially on countries that relly more on chinese products but in general it's not going to be as bad hopefuly

[@mrn234]

There is a good movie with Christian Bale about it i think its called "The big short"

[@newperve]

@@mrn234 Yeah those guys bet it would happen. They are currently not short a quid.

[@mrn234]

@@newperve yup its crazy how complicated and layered all this stuff is

[@ericgoodman3510]

@@carso1500 I think that a lot more of the world depends on Chinese manufacturing than you think. I go out of my way to try and not buy anything made in China and it's really hard to do that sometimes. Start paying attention to where things are made more often and you will see what I mean.

[@kylekennedy420]

You guys are really giving us a unique perspective into this entire thing. It wasn’t really as clear to me before

[@TheBelrick]

A reminder that the fraudulent Chinese housing market was unleashed upon the world. Chinese people with their unearned wealth would flee to other nations and buy up homes there in huge amounts using their funny money.

[@jennyohara4011]

its just 25 cents for each Chinese person..its ok...chill out Man!

[@redragon_istaken]

This makes a lot of sense. I had a friend who rented an apartment in the US. The property was bought by Chinese immigrants who later started intruding into the apartment without his permission. He told me one time he woke up from sleep to find them going around on his balcony to take measurements. This was after he had a big fight with them, telling them they were not allowed to go into the apartment without his permission. The fact that they had used a ladder to climb onto the balcony was baffling. He moved out after his contract ended and that situation actually made him look into buying a house.

[@breakingames7772]

No this makes no sense, wtf are these dudes talking about? so 1 million dollars is what he said for a 700sq ft apartment? he said dollars, so my question is where do the 2 billion chinese live? they all live in the streets? this makes zero sense. they have to live somewhere near cities to make all the crap we buy

[@matty6848]

@@breakingames7772 why do you keep asking the same question on every comment? Are you CCP shill or something?

[@bigbeartanner]

Lol I would’ve beat the fuck out of them. (If they were in my apartment of course) I’m not a fighter

[@bigbeartanner]

@@breakingames7772 and yeah why do you like China so much lol

[@chazmania1743]

@@bigbeartanner I would have killed them with conversation with a beer and my birthday suit. I would squat, it’s rude to show the soles of your feet after all.

[@musashidanmcgrath]

Was in Beijing about 3 years ago and drove through one of these concrete ghost towns. Miles and miles of bare 50 story concrete buildings. No windows or doors. Just poured concrete. The whole area was completely abandoned.

[@Juliewebsterful]

I know a Chinese girl who had purchased a apartment in China before she moved to Australia for study. She decided to stay here and became a Australian citizen. She then discovered she could not sell, rent out or give away her apartment as she was no longer a Chinese citizen. It now sits empty.

[@JC-zv3cv]

Well..that sounds quite dodgy - takes ages to become a citizen, she didnt have to become a citizen but could have stayed a permanent resident, China doesn't allow its citizens to give up their Chinese citizenship anyway and its really only done in extremes such as refugees and she could have sold, rented or gifted to her family

[@himanshugurjar9002]

Did she become a citizen in 2-3 years or what?

[@Default78334]

@@JC-zv3cv China prohibits dual citizenship, if you obtain citizenship from another country, you're no longer a Chinese citizen (when convenient for them).

[@cs_fl5048]

I have been there.. I spend over two weeks traveling by rail, boat, bus and plane. And yes, this is true. I was almost afraid to walk on the streets...not because of the people, who were quite nice, in a distant sort of way, but because of the wiring on the electric poles in the larger cities. I've seen plates of spaghetti looking more organized.

[@none8708]

Ha ha ha. Love the spaghetti imagery.

[@TechToWatch]

It’s truly painful to see the waste of resources expended on these blights on the landscape and society. They are worse than worthless as a waste not only the resources on building them but the necessary further resources to remove them at some point in the future, or they’ll just be a dangerous, overgrown wasteland full of traps for the curious.

[@buddha2845]

I live in a house in western india,which was built with lime mortar and bricks,,it is 65 years old,and still more stronger than new cement concrete rcc buildings,, Our forts are more than 1000 years old,and still as strong as 1000 years back

[@qamarqammar7629]

I love the brick architecture in India and the surrounding countries where it is quite commonly used. Very beautiful and pleasant to live in.

[@concept5631]

@Sen Se What're they built out of?

[@agalah408]

For the past 2 years I had been recommending over and over to Chinese friends to dump property investments and put their money into tangible stock like semiconductors. However, the herd mentality kicks in... "My friends all invest in property, so it must be great for me to do it too" Now its all about "ooh...why an I having such bad luck? How could I have foreseen this?"

[@stevep5408]

Yes there is great profits making fake semiconductors. The Chinese stock market isn't much less of a rigged game. Between lack of government controls, to the fact that the communist government can change the rules, takeover any company, ban crypto with the stroke of a pen, with a huge dollop of endemic corruption leaves Chinese savers with few if any wise, legitimate ,safe investments.

[@Bialy_1]

@@stevep5408 LoL the difference betwen crypto and the topic of the video is that the crypto is much bigger version of the same "problem" that people are blinded by the idea of "free profits". China baned crypto because contrary to this, noone in China was in charge = bribing politicians to not see a problem in it...

[@BrandonAEnglish]

While living in China for nearly seven years, I saw this same ignorant idea play out as I was told over and over "Housing prices ONLY GO UP, so I must buy ASAP." I asked a friend "What will you do when your overpriced apartment value crashes?" He said "Impossible, impossible!"

[@puzer1]

...lol, did you even watch the video?...these guys on the ground literally told you there was zero safety in the Chinese stock market...the smart Chinese aren't investing in Chinese real estate, they're investing in the US and Canada...those markets will have a reckoning of their own but at least the tangible properties aren't disintegrating in 3 yr span...

[@Tony-om5kr]

@@puzer1 We already had our real estate crash in 2008. I suspect that we'll repeat in a few years but hopefully not as bad as 2008's. Same with our stock market, but based on observation, the stock market tends to recover more quickly.

[@rerhart585]

I lived and worked in China for years and I completely agree. The Apartment we lived in, the basement had a huge crack in the basement that they have had to fill in several times each year.

[@stiepanholkien605]

When you're young as long as you got internet it's a cyberpunk aesthetic, when you're older it just becomes a shithole apartment.

[@etiennedegaulle3817]

You've just summed up my rental history. 😃

[@ingridfong-daley5899]

We lived in Shanghai (Pudong New Area) for 4 years (2012-2016) and both of our apartments were crumbling to bits, and they were only 10 years old. They were loaded on the inside with expensive marble and expensive fittings, but the buildings themselves were rickety and cheap.

[@m.m.7514]

I lived in Shanghai too, in a 100 years old house built by Spaniards in Jing'An. The house was perfect, I couldn't complain about it, and I didn't understand when my friends complained about theirs. Just some of us living in houses built by French, English, German or Spanish didn't complain.

[@ingridfong-daley5899]

@@m.m.7514 The REALLY wealthy areas had single-family homes with private lawns, like maybe out towards Jinqiao. I remember a lot of those stucco houses with the spanish-tile red roof cladding. Those often WERE nicer builds. But the apartment compounds... YIKES.

[@Sacrypheyes]

when a wooden house would be more solid than a concrete one, you have a big problem on your hands...

[@LovinLife-pv7op]

I wish the U.S. government would change our laws about selling real estate to non-U.S. citizens. By allowing rich people from all over the world to buy American land, that forces us and our children, grandchildren, to compete at higher prices just for us to live in our own homeland.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

Idk this is a really tricky one to me. As much as I know that would be the right thing to do for Americans. I am a trust fund kid.(Not a kid tho I am a parent in my mid 30s). But that's because the Chinese have been buying all the property where I grew up and my parents inherited and bought land.

[@micki0finn430]

I woukd say non-resident instead of non-citizen. I know several people have jumped through all the hoops and followed all the laws but are still striving to get US citizenship. These are exactly the people I want buying a home near me, far more than investors buying property US citizens or not. To me the important part is weather or not the property is occupied.

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

Molotov cocktails exist.

[@col.cottonhill6655]

@@MachineMan-mj4gj no you have to build one. Which is illegal to even think about. So don't do it unless you want serious time in prison 😜

[@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993]

Why You don't like competition?

[@bspeers76]

First a ship named Ever Given owned by a company called Evergreen clogs up the Suez Canal. Now a real estate giant named Evergrande is collapsing, taking much of the Chinese economy with it. I think the lesson here is never begin a business undertaking's name with "Ever." Ever.

[@kevinslattery5748]

So arrrrgh, do you think 'Nevergrande' or would be better, a bit like Neverland. Maybe Chinagrande would be a better warning? Titanic, it's unsinkable!

[@mfree80286]

Postpone that drive through the Everglades...

[@Dwightstjohn-fo8ki]

@@kevinslattery5748 And Arianna Grande had two people shot at one of her concerts.........in Britain???!!

[@matthewcoveney4380]

@@kevinslattery5748 Two words: CHI NA

[@douglasrobertson1330]

When I was living in Nantong, Jiangzu I had a friend named Ever who had women's fashion stores all over that province. They were titled EVER CLOTHES, I thought what a bland name and suggested she use FASHIONS BY EVER.

[@amyd4146]

Shout out to Oklahoma where it’s a great deal for property. The cheapest rent I’ve seen in the capitol city is $450 for a 1-bed 1-bath with a 1/4 acre back yard, and in a good area near schools. I’ve seen 5-bedroom 3-bath houses with huge backyards in gated communities for $130K to own. Some places, people only pay $900 property tax, and own a nice property.

[@billmelater6470]

The 2008 bubble happened the same way. People were told "it's a sure thing". Thing is, there is no such thing as a sure thing in economics.

[@JB-yb4wn]

Death and taxes are a sure thing.

[@youreprettygood2603]

I know a Brit who bought an apartment to live in Foshan next to Guangzhou, he told me at the time that the price would skyrocket because it was going to be near the new high speed rail station in that big Guangdong project to link every cities around the Pearl River Delta with high speed train every 10 mins like a metro. Little did he realize that the price had already risen the moment it was announced that one of the high speed rail station was going to be near there, and not once it was built. He missed on the initial rise and now the city of Foshan has implemented measures to limit real estate speculation, so his flat is worth less than it was when he bought it LMAO.

[@andersonomo597]

Conversely, when we were looking for our first home, the agents took us to a rather nice house with a long stretch of clear land over the back fence (in the middle of suburbia). Told us it had been zoned for a major new road for many years but that 'It'll NEVER get built". Yep! I use that road regularly now along with heaps of others!

[@craigthebrute3262]

He obviously hadn't heard of the efficient market hypothesis

[@Justme-to6yu]

This is sad. Im from South Korea (Canadian currently), and we owned an apartment in Seoul. Shit is over 50 year old. Theres been talks for reconstruction or renovation of the complex for about 10 years now, but the government wont give the permit to reconstruct the complex because its too sturdy lmfao. Even real estate companies and construction contractors are hesitant to break it down because its just so costly and hard to do. Housing prices are prob double in chinese cities than ours, and theirs is turning to piles of rubble in less than 10 years.

[@tedthesailor172]

"You owe me money." "Would you take a parking space as payment?" "Where is it?" "The future..."

[@kotk05]

Make sure it's not one of those tandem spots where you'll be blocked or you'll get a call at random times to move your car out of the way

[@juliantheapostate8295]

It's basically a scrip dividend

[@welchroberts1771]

How about a grave site by the old oak tree?

[@Schminner]

Does it come with a fortune cookie?

[@DandyDude]

underrated comment

[@silentbobthemall3712]

Can you guys please do anotther one of these on the Chinese energy crisis?!?! I learned SOOOO much from this video

[@Parrotting]

I don’t often comment. Just wanted to thank you guys for all the videos you are doing to update everyone. You offer so much useful and interesting insight.

[@JustAnotherPaddy]

I love how everyone thinks someone else is the bigger sucker. Everyone knows it’s a con job but they still think they’ll get out in time.

[@sylviam6535]

The CCP leadership has been stashing their money in overseas real estate for years now.

[@davidkymdell452]

That's the problem with FOMO, even normally smart people do the weirdest shit in the face of what is clearly a bad investment

[@nanba009]

That’s something every bubble has in common, people just keep thinking “there always will be a bigger fools who will pay much higher price”. Until, you know, they realize they are the one.

[@osl5686]

Funny how that is almost universal in gambling, bubbles, speculation...I think it is the greater fool or something but - people in it always think they can time it and get out at the top. It is strange how human psychology does not understand that is one of the biggest reasons why bubbles are bad and the house usually wins...people are smart but many just stiĺl fall for it because they are not the ones running the gamut.

[@TruthDragon.]

Unfortunately, the Chinese people have no experience with "bubbles". This will be their first to pop. The CCP will interfere in their markets even more that the US government interfered in its markets. Some of us tried to warn the US population about a real estate bubble that began to form in 2003. Industry insiders like me were surprised that the markets continued for as long as they did without crashing because when you looked at the fundamentals, they detached from reality five or six years before the markets finally imploded. As time went on, the absurdity that was happening around the globe in terms of how assets were underwritten versus what was realistic was astronomical, but that said, it is nothing compared to the utter absurdity in China. There is no way China gets out of this and they will not be able to cover it up. Its way too insane. Unfortunately, this means the world is in for a rough ride over the next few decades. Buckle your seat belts boys and girls! Looks like we are headed for a sh*t storm!

[@topsuperseven7910]

18:00 we also had that same exact experience (even looks nearly identical) where the water pools stopped just months later and so basically you had worthless blue-tiled caverns full of rusting sharp metal and litter. I have never seen working outdoor escalators past the 6 month mark and ours also became rusty danger-stairs.

[@whitegoose2017]

​@@Keepskatin That's a very bad take. Most first world nations are the most heavily developed in terms of military strength. So, wishing for a catastrophic economic collapse is kind of dumb, because we know where that road leads.

[@ferrumignis]

@@Keepskatin You show a very childish naivety. Captialism gives you the opportunity for wealth, if you are prepared tom put the effort in. Presumably you want something nothing?

[@YaofuZhou]

You guys have much better idea than many of the academic intellectuals about what is really going on in China. Nice work!

[@johnbacon4997]

WOW, those abandoned villas literally look like it survived a war. How do those buildings ;degrade that fast?

[@carlnascnyc]

Shoddy construction with sub-par materials

[@socialmoth4974]

And no maintainance.

[@Ron-zr6se]

All it takes is watching them do the construction and everything will become clear.

[@MichalKaczorowski]

They are made in China.

[@Bialy_1]

Acid rains from all the polution in the air and concrete with so little cement in it that the acid rain can easly flush all the chemicals that normaly holding the particles of sand together.

[@rosskwolfe]

I've often wondered: Since so many properties were just empty, was squatting much of a problem? Would anybody even notice if it were?

[@Gianfranco_69]

Nobody is homeless in a Communist Utopia that has solved all of modern lifes problems by lying and Jail

[@markvogel5872]

They still hire old like uncles to guard the buildings. Watch from the channel The Proper People their urbanx videos of abandoned Chinese buildings.....really binge worthy!

[@addanametocontinue]

I doubt squatting is a problem. Unlike in the US, I don't think squatters have any rights in China. They'll just drag your ass out, lol.

[@markvogel5872]

@@addanametocontinue not all areas in the us have squatters rights....not where I live.

[@egrintarg230]

I wouldn't squat in any of those buildings unless I really had to go really bad.

[@arjanpetersen]

This was in the making for years. I remembered that initial video directly.

[@PuggiTheGreat]

You guys do the most fascinating videos on China I've seen and probably know more about China than most so called western experts who've never even been there. Fascinating. Thanks.

[@BrandonAEnglish]

I'm in the process of buying a 100-year old traditional Japanese house and it's in better condition than these 3-year old Chinese houses. From the moment I arrived in China (Guangzhou), I've felt like most every "new" building already appeared old and structurally unsafe.

[@OnlyKaerius]

The only way you're going to get a structurally sound new building in China is if you build it yourself, or import a pre-build (such as Tomoku Hus).

[@chazmania1743]

Better off living in a shipping container with windows at that point.

[@robertscheinost179]

Your "traditional Japanese house" will be grabbed by Emperor She's political friends in a few years. Don't expect any compensation, just leave or you'll be put in a zoo with no visitors except the organ harvesters.

[@BIackCadillac]

@@robertscheinost179 what

[@robertscheinost179]

@@BIackCadillac What what?

[@williamcrossan9333]

Buying sight unseen is common in Australia. We've also got an enormous property boom happening.

[@dcptiv]

Same here in Australia. The apartments built by Chinese labor in Sydney NSW are falling apart & saying job done when not fully completed.

[@tritegent3202]

Great video guys! I was really surprised to see just how rough some of these places were after just a few years. Hearing about both of your experiences never get old to me, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you guys cover next. Keep up the awesome work broskis!

[@Meitti]

Timing is pretty funny, I just had my apartment bought by a new investor and we had a scheduled get together and house tour the same day this video came out. And unlike serpentzas experience, my new landlord actually preferred if I stayed instead because the house was in good condition after 4 years and I've never missed a rent. In Finland a tenant with a good reputation can actually raise the value of the apartment tremendously from the investment standpoint. In other words the value of the building goes up if people actually live in it or use it, as it should be.

[@goingbike]

Finland sounds cool

[@Doggieman1111]

Yes but Finland's economy isn't built almost entirely on a gigantic scam ponzi scheme, as China's is.

[@bobdole6691]

Yea no fucking shit the value of a property is maintained if someones living there, nobody should need anybody telling them this

[@coastcity7029]

Watched through all the ads-- glad you guys are finally getting some well-deserved ad revenue!

[@starcrib]

Thanks again Winston: I remember your original broadcast of the crumbling buildings... it was a revelation then ..and utterly understood now. Lunacy. Next- on the Menu- 💥BOOM💥..FRIGHTENING.

[@kalkan19701]

I am not as well-versed in Chinese cultural norms as you two. However, I am a former US government official. I worked in the US Foreign Service, in a number of countries in the US Near-East Asia bureau in the early-mid 2000's, when China was just starting to ramp up their expansionist policies. I know enough about Evergrande and its inevitable crash to believe that two things will likely happen: 1. When the crash occurs due to the payment default, China will conduct a cyberattack on Western businesses and likely their stock markets. 2. As a distractor, they will become much more aggressive towards Taiwan. Yesterday, 3 October, China performed their most aggressive military posturing to-date, flying 52 bombers and fighters into Taiwan airspace. This action is directly aligned with the upcoming Evergrande default that will have a major effect on global markets. And as the two of you know all-to-well, China's actions and reactions in the near future will be about saving face, as is the culture of China, even prior to the rise of the CCP. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these possible scenarios I pose. Feel free to even reject my futurist outlook as uninformed conjecture; I won't be offended.

[@RyanVJones]

I remember when you first aired this footage, it was really insightful. Thanks for revising the topic and keep up the great work

[@MRoderick89]

That video from 2018 I remember watching that when you first uploaded it and I'm still here watching your videos thanks for the years of great content. Stay awesome 👍

[@remifasolla2863]

Who would have thought, starting the wildest kind of capitalist economy in a country led by the most despotic communist government would lead to some kind of contradictions? 🤔

[@christinebeames2311]

Yes , who would have thought , communist tyrants getting a taste of mega money and Not behaving well .

[@remifasolla2863]

@@christinebeames2311 😉

[@hikerJohn]

This is one of your most interesting videos in a LONG TIME.

[@somesortofdeliciousbiscuit3704]

It would kill me if I worked in construction having to build something you know isn't structurally sound just to make money and cut cost with the cheapest material that barely holds up against physics.

[@edoboleyn]

This is a really great point. What’s going on when you can trust hundreds of thousands of construction workers (at every level) to design and build stuff like this? And what does that do to them? There’s something here. A cultural as well as economic difference that comes down to - you take pride in your work, but the people who built these structures see no reason in doing so.

[@somesortofdeliciousbiscuit3704]

@@edoboleyn The Great Leap Forward has a lot to answer to. Anyone with education and indeed know-how was seen as decadent and bourgeoise - that and anyone who would tell CCP agents that ' this is a bad idea. So much knowledge was lost and so many ancient artefacts and buildings were demolished so that was also lost. Not to mention generational trauma being a thing with everyone from before the 1960s being touched by the ensuing famine.

[@annetoronto5474]

Are you forgetting how China sold fake baby food to families, the babies passed away before the families figured out there was no nutritional value in the fake powder. And the tainted pet food, that also killed many pets……..all for profit! Besides construction, what other industries have huge profit and could be putting that profit before the wellbeing of people??? Big pharma?

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

It would kill you inside and potentially kill other people with the building.

[@G-Mastah-Fash]

@@edoboleyn They're soulless drones, that's the only way I can explain it. I couldn't live with myself knowing I built a house that'll collapse onto the residents in 10 years. That's just fucked, I'd rather be a vagabond than work in a job like that.

[@dereksimpson7959]

Thanks!

[@dralord1307]

This exact same stuff has been going on in the philippines for a very long time. A real estate agent took me to a "high end" subdivision in development. Their 1 year old model house had cracks in every wall, the stairs were broken, the concrete was like tooth paste and they were asking 200k USD for a rowhouse. They didnt even put footers or anything in. It was was just concrete on dirt.

[@SurpriseMechanics]

If I were walking around those buildings, I'd probably keep my motorcycle helmet on so a piece of material doesn't fall and hit me in the head.

[@grumfeldvanderspooijwanker1627]

Wow, I had the same thing where we'd get constant real estate agents knocking with clients trying to come in and see the property. When I asked our "landlord" she told me not to let them in or she'd sue me (empty threat, I think, but we weren't letting them in anyway) - I imagine she wasn't the owner and was subletting it to us, and didn't want it to get sold. These ones, at least, stopped coming after we started getting angry.

[@yuukimasamura5143]

Hopefully their military equipment is just as crap

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

It is. You couldn't believe the things that equipment does terribly wrong.

[@humansvd3269]

Sadly a lot of it is not garbage. A lot of their equipment is just as capable as dangerous as the United States or Russia or any major power.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@humansvd3269 it's cheap and stole technology they don't truly understand, besides the average chines soldier is under protected because they rely on zergling rush tactics, the corruption and the low quality of their soldiers, since they've grown in the most polluted country on this planet.

[@humansvd3269]

@@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115 if you steal the technology then you could probably make a cheaper but just as effective. They may still use a conscript for but they're just really trying to sway away from that.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@humansvd3269 They copied and made cheaper but can't keep up without stealing again. China has been twice ahead of us in technology rightly after our civilization collapses but when we restarted the engines we skyrocket.

[@justinsprout7611]

I discovered you guys a few years ago because of those videos you guys did of the new building crumbling, and glad I did, because you’ve been very informative during the last year and a half, plus very entertaining 🙏🏻

[@vnvnational2237]

I love how they describe 700 sq ft as "tiny". In London and Manhattan, that would be described as generous. LOL

[@zaggnutt]

Dang, you guys called it years ago. I remember watching those videos in disgust. Now it's time to pay the piper.

[@godspeedmax6038]

One of the most informative channels I’ve ever found

[@andreaszetterstrom7418]

China kind of reminds me of the Mistborne trilogy by Brandon Sanderson, where the whole world is run kind of ham fisted, but roughly staying afloat, until the end of the series where it all just collapses under its own weight.

[@peecee1384]

8:20 A 200 square metre apartment is HUGE. I currently live in a 63m2 unit in Sydney and it is adequate for 2 people.

[@JustAnotherPaddy]

Lol. Do you live in the Shire?

[@jrochest4642]

63 sq meters is 700 square feet, which is a good sized one bedroom or a very small 2 bed.

[@JustAnotherPaddy]

@@jrochest4642 - it’s a small two car garage

[@jrochest4642]

@@JustAnotherPaddy It's also bigger than most one-bedroom apartments in Canada!

[@MrBl3ki]

4 people to be more precise - 2 parents and 2 children without a problem.

[@SMarti018]

So they build the homes they live in with the same quality standards they do in the manufacturing sector? Consistency guess.

[@grantadamson3478]

Not a very accurate statement. A lot of well manufactured goods come out of China too. Sometimes it's easy to get on the band wagon and diss something/someone to look good at the time but facts should be the driving force in your thinking.

[@SMarti018]

@@grantadamson3478 your opinion I guess. Their are thousands of manufacturing companies in China and the ones that do produce quality products like Apple or Samsung products are at the demand of the foreign owners of the company. There will be a few outliers but generally 99.9% of them are junk. It’s cultural. For whatever reason the Chinese and many Asian countries are not known for quality.

[@grantadamson3478]

@@SMarti018 No. It's not an opinion it's a fact. Samsung haven't been manufacturing their products in China since 2019 so that's not correct either. From the underwear you are wearing to your Ebike and a myriad other products that are either made under license or not most popular consumer items coming out of China are good quality. Sure there is rubbish too but that is only a small percentage. I work with electronics produced and designed in China. I seldom have any issues with quality and the pricing is very good.

[@mfree80286]

@@grantadamson3478 If you don't constantly monitor, you can expect some corners to be cut where it's perceived it's invisible. It's hard to cut corners in electronics because the only hard costs are on parts that are critical, and it's hard to cut corners with clothing because even an economized machine-produced item is usually acceptable looking and wears well enough. It is the realm of "good enough", which is true to the phrase... the items are good enough. But you better be on your toes with receiver-side QA, or you'll end up shipping something daft without knowing and ending up like Harbor Freight, exchanging *years* worth of stock in Chinese produced vehicle jack stands because the supplier's machinery wore out and nobody bothered to stop the line and fix it.

[@grantadamson3478]

@@mfree80286 You would be surprised at the varying quality of electronics. It's not a case where it either works out of the box or it doesn't. Corners are easily cut and you don't find this out until the system is up and running and then you find they didn't perform the solder dipping process correctly or a thousand different ways of cost cutting techniques that late present themselves as problems. Unless you actually know how electronics are made you wouldn't understand. We don't have time to test all components. I'm just saying that some very good and cheap products do come out of China and to dismiss them as a market would be stupid.

[@pammcintyre5344]

Very similar in Korea. No building standards, no method of working, no common sense. Repair a brick step by slapping in more concrete without brushing away the crumbling concrete or leveling the step, change the plan for a dept store to add restaurants with water heated underfloor, but no plan for stronger supporting frame. ( the whole floor collapsed with customers in it) Hang up a seamstress shingle, then shorten a man's pantlegs two completely different lengths. Its all in the moment, no credentials, no forethought no planning. I think of Korea as this place with an elegant looking rose garden landscape that gives out the odor of open sewage running down the mountain into the garden. ( yes, I was there) Asian cultures want "new," not second hand, appearance is everything, all about "face," not practical reality.

[@JapanMonAmourTheJapanHouse]

what about the five brand new apartment blocks that Evergrande built that were demolished a couple of weeks ago because they were in a dangerous condition. Apparently the underground carparks were flooded with water

[@einfelder8262]

They were unfinished and 11 years old.

[@JapanMonAmourTheJapanHouse]

@@einfelder8262 11 years old is still considered brand new.

[@NiSE_Rafter]

@@JapanMonAmourTheJapanHouse In what definition of brand new? I could understand considering them relatively new but brand new I'd say only describes the first few years.

[@einfelder8262]

@@JapanMonAmourTheJapanHouse Rubbish. 11 years out of a 70 year maximum tenure is most definately not brand new.

[@JapanMonAmourTheJapanHouse]

@@einfelder8262 has it been lived in? If not its brand new

[@coniccinoc]

Much respect, this is high level journalism. Reminds me of what 60 minutes used to be decades ago. Well done.

[@justrl3k]

This is speculation, opinion and innuendo. It is the utter opposite of journalism. That being said, I enjoyed it for what it is... P.S. Your avatar image and 60 minutes reference are huge tells.

[@coniccinoc]

@@justrl3k The ongoing collapse of China's real estate is what now?

[@coniccinoc]

@@justrl3k lol, sorry for that last reply. As soon as I hit enter, it occurred to me that you are probably a genders studies grad, english major or artist of some kind, so I get your confusion.

[@neannafloweroftheabyss1052]

You didn't cover the most ridiculous thing in the incident. Because the price of houses skyrocketed and was expected to skyrocket, people borrow money from banks to buy UNFINISHED properties. When Evergrande collapsed and decided that they won't finish that building anymore, the state decided that those poor buyers MUST CONTINUE PAY THE LOANS for that never-to-finish building! It sucks! It's like I'm a toy manufacturer and you bought the toys I would produce from May to November, and I went bankrupt in July but you still have to buy the rest of the "toys", otherwise you go to jail.

[@daple1997]

70 m^2 is a decent size. The size of North American apartments just makes everything else look small.

[@agalah408]

If you can move to the country and build there, you can spread out more, then work from home too. My wife son and myself live in 745 sqm of a single level, surrounded by green fields. I can recommend it.

[@widehotep9257]

Ironically, American homes and apartments need to be bigger than Chinese apartments so we can store all the crap we buy. And most of the crap we buy is made in Communist China!

[@hbowman108]

Some friends of mine bought two three-bedroom houses and a barn on THIRTY-TWO hectares of land (mostly forest) in 2000 for $180,000. I'd guess the place is like $350,000 now.

[@MichalKaczorowski]

It's 3 times bigger than my current apartment in Poland ;)

[@thursdayblack]

Some culture shock there for sure. My house is 200m² and is considered a BIG house here. Anything above 100m² for an apartment is considered luxury and typically reserved for penthouses. (Sweden)

[@donaldbest7621]

You two are my “go to” resource on what’s really going on in China.

[@tyvid]

Waiting for this comment thread to be bombarded by the 50 cent army and their "what about..." defence strategy.

[@therach7841]

Two white dudebros are your resource on what's really going on in China? Ok.

[@donaldbest7621]

@@therach7841 blatantly racist statement. The color of your skin does not determine the content of your character, nor the depth of your understanding.

[@therach7841]

@@donaldbest7621 Pshh. Ok. I'm racist. Not the guy who chooses 2 white guys to be the authoritative voices on the goings on of a non-white country. As the famous Vinnie Barbarino says, "up your nose with a rubber hose". Stop consuming this NED propaganda.

[@donaldbest7621]

@@therach7841 do you work for the CCP?

[@christianlibertarian5488]

I used to live in Australia. Lots of Chinese invested there. I came up with the idea of building a building with no finishings, except a block of gold epoxied to the floor. I thought I could sell these out in minutes.

[@talltroll7092]

And you would have been 100% correct. Base metal coated in gold would also work, for reference

[@tonyw1w1w14]

This is a huge problem, reminds me of what happened to Japan re inflated property prices but at least the property was well built. I have spent a lot of time in China and I have never seen construction like it, even major projects like conference centers that are less than two years old were falling apart. Its going to be a big global disaster.

[@turbo1gts]

I think part of Japan's(Nippon) quality of workmanship has something to do with limited space and population. They don't have space to build a city, get tired of it, then build another. Same thing with everything, down to vehicles, personal electronics, and all kinds of every day objects. The amount of wasted money, time, effort, and materials in the construction in this video, not to mention all the shoddy made in china consumer goods we have all had in our lives just staggers the imagination.

[@Dwightstjohn-fo8ki]

@@turbo1gts We voted with our dollar and HAD to have all this plastic Ch. crap. We gave them the money. Now everyone will pay.

[@Doggieman1111]

Well that's why many Western economies are trying to "uncouple" from China. So when China sinks it won't drag them (too far) down with it.

[@AmericanPeasantry]

I always thought it was interesting that the Japanese-built buildings (from when they occupied) in my husband’s city were known to be the sturdiest buildings in the city. Even the neglected old Japanese buildings were in better shape than the “modern” Chinese ones. I was like, why don’t they just copy the Japanese buildings? He told me that the Chinese people had tried to pave the main street in town, which was cobblestone, also built by the Japanese, and they tried to tear out the cobblestone but couldn’t do it bc it was too sturdy. (They couldn’t blow it up either.😂) So they just paved over it.

[@Three_Random_Words]

@Mike in Halifax but it's a much better constructed story.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Hell old Soviet era apartment blocks are holding up better then these CCP ghost cities...

[@mfree80286]

Just copy the Japanese? Of all the unusual things I've heard about the collective Chinese psychii, a disdain for anything about Japan is the one thing I can understand. It's not *logical* by any stretch, but it's understandable.

[@chad_bro_chill]

@@mfree80286 The true irony being that they are behaving more and more like imperial Japan in the lead up to WW2, while thinking they're the morally superior ones.

[@dorsia6938]

They pave over cobblestone in Europe as well

[@robadamson1]

Whenever the Chinese Real Estate bubble conversation comes up I always mention your guys' ride videos. Nothing like seeing someone ride for 20 minutes through empty high rises to drive a point home.

[@fattymatty5380]

Great stuff guys. I’ve made about 10 business trips to Shanghai, Hangzhao and Guangzhou. I was doing business with companies in the surface finishing industry and I’d stay in western hotels and also Chinese hotels. I was always treated well by my Chinese hosts and I thoroughly enjoyed my experiences there. However, what was readily apparent in the industrial plants, restaurants hotels and shops that I visited was that nothing is built to last. China is a facade. The entire economy is based on speculation and and irrational belief in the ever increasing value of assets. They’ve never experienced economic collapse as we have in the West because they started out at such a lower level. As you see yourselves even more intimately. We have plenty of problems in the US with a Federal debt that cannot be repeated, high taxation, and ignorance of the voters, but the absurd belief that China sees itself as immune from economic collapse is insane. ,

[@JohnSmith-zv8km]

LOL you have low taxation and a care system to prove it.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

Why are Americans always whinging about taxes when the US have by far the lowest tax rate of any Western country? You have to pay _some_ taxes if you want to have a government and public infrastructure and services. And, you know, fund an imperial war machine bigger than the rest of the world's combined.

[@brjones27]

Man, y'all haven't shown up in my recommended feed in a long time.

[@mahonrimoriancumer9932]

Did you guys talk about how this is propped up by the government? i didn't hearing anything about the fact that the government would have a hard time surviving without property prices going up. Not sure how it exactly works but . . .

[@Kcelloo]

I lived in Hong Kong in 2011 and visited Shenzhen. I have to say, the buildings did look a bit iffy...

[@williamswenson5315]

Winston, I just finished watching your extended and frankly, terrific interview with Justin Oh and Tom Nash on Unpopular Opinions. I would exhort everyone reading this comment to watch it as it offers a wonderfully concise overview of many of the current problems that both China faces and the world as a consequence of its actions. To paraphrase, the segment was "awesome."

[@JoeGator23]

Why not leave a link to it? Thanks.

[@andersonomo597]

Yes please! Can we have a link?

[@gordonliu3972]

@@andersonomo597 there's a link on Serpentza's twitter

[@gordonliu3972]

@@JoeGator23 there's a link on Serpentza's official Twitter

[@JoeGator23]

@@gordonliu3972 Thanks, I'll have a look- maybe I can access it, I'm not on Twitter. The video here was more informative than any I've seen so far. Cheers!

[@joshuahernandez3216]

I use to live in China. I'm from the USA and my best friend there was British. We use to walk around a lot and drink because we were bored out of our skulls most days. I said to him, "This is a Ponzy Scheme" as we looked at the buildings. They were new and already falling apart. Turns out, it was a Ponzy Scheme that would make Ponzy blush. These ghost towns were even in big cities like Shanghai and Beijing.

[@shrimpgazing]

You guys are the best. Eternally grateful that you made it out alright

[@Bubba-zu6yr]

I remember the vid, you guys called it! Tofu construction is real.😉

[@teddywiggles8254]

These dudes got balls of steel! I love watching their stuff. Soooo interesting!

[@Love_N_Let_Live]

A free chicken or water bottle for getting a house?! Lol... That's like giving away a tooth pick to someone that buys a car.

[@christopherpardell4418]

I traveled to the Shenzhen region several times a year from 2000-2005. Before the real property boom took off. But even then, the construction quality was dreadful. Graft and corruption, endemic. You would get a sample of a building material from a supplier and order a truck full- and what was delivered would be rusted, a weaker alloy, paint or lacquer that had been watered down, etc. Every damn building was covered with tiny little tiles, the kind you would use on a bathroom floor for traction and whenI asked why all the tile, they said, because (1) small tiles are made of mud and fire, so cheap. And (2) once’s its built-they are NEVER gonna maintain it. So tile lasts longer than paint or other surfaces. The pollution, however, resulted in every building caked with grime and streaks of black mildew growing in the grout… and they would do nothing about it. It was funny- every bush and shrub was meticulously manicured into a topiary along every road, and yet the roads were lined with trash no one would pick up, and the buildings were left to rot. I saw a ‘luxury’ hotel being built and the concrete was being mixed in five gallon pails. I think the Chinese are very naive about speculation and the value of real estate. And their economy generally LOOKS strong- but because of the level of graft, its actually full of holes. A colander looks like it holds water if you pour water into it fast enough…but the minute the flow slows down, you can see how badly it leaks.

[@Rebasepoiss]

70 m2 might be tiny for the US but it's actually a perfectly normal size for a 2-bedroom flat in Europe, for example. In bigger cities people live in much smaller flats than that.

[@yvesderival634]

The truth is whether they like it or not, the Chinese government is working to improve the quality of life for the average citizen contrary to so call western democracy.

[@kanucks9]

In Canada that's about as small as 2 bedroom apartments get. But here in Vancouver there are plenty that size. A normal 2 bedroom is ~100m^2. Smaller spaces would be fine if we could get smaller appliances like you have in Europe though - it's just that most of the buildings that are cheap are from the 70s.

[@lillexus5589]

Mostly occupied by lower class residents though

[@Darca1n]

@@yvesderival634 I'm gonna have to press 'Doubt' on that, as someone in a western democracy(Norway) that is in fact keeping quality of life quite high.

[@yvesderival634]

@@Darca1n The whole idea is to put the Chinese government down.I live in a western-style democracy. Things are not perfect as they pretend to be. Why can we be fair and square? Thank God, the Chinese don't send mercenaries to Mali and Haiti to kill innocent people.