Why Everyone Gets Confused By Street Photography

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As a genre of photography, street photography feels unique in being argued whether or not images are officially "street photography" while I subscribe to the idea that anything CAN be street, I'd like to explore the factors that influence common interpretations in this video.
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#streetphotography

[@GeorgeHolden]

Quick one from me: my intention with showing comments isn't to single out any individuals or opinions, but instead to just show the variety of perspectives held by members of the street community. I don't disagree with any of them. I think each and every person's opinion is valid and prove that every person has a unique interpretation.

[@FedThePoopy]

I really loved this. The more I learn about the photography, the less I want to pigeon hole myself as a "street photographer". Why can't we just enjoy this art form, this thing that lets us capture a split second of reality whether we compose the reality ourself or just find it candidly out in the world. It's all just photography, we are taking that small slice of life, freezing it, and sharing it. Let's not try and overcomplicate it.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing and glad you enjoyed!

[@stevegodsell]

‘What is the point of Street Photography today?’. That is a fundamentally brilliant question which you may well have answered. Is there a project the photographer has in mind or are these random pictures of people we don’t know, to share on social media with people we’ll never meet. It’s all too easy to strap on a camera and randomly shoot people or things which seem vaguely important in the moment; the internet is awash with these, which will fade as quickly as they are taken. If Street Photography is to be fully embraced as art, it needs a little more intent.

[@UnconventionalReasoning]

The two core features which distinguish "street" photography from other genres for me are that it is reactive and in a generally man-made environment. It is different from a location shoot or an environmental portrait session because the photographer and subject have arranged to take pictures. With street photography, the subject is simply present, doing their thing, rather than expecting to have their photo taken. This applies for people, animals, and inanimate objects.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Very good points and well put, thanks for sharing!

[@anta40]

When I started learning street photography few years ago, my main references were limited to photojournalism/documentary style like Henri Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Martin Parr, etc. Eventually feel not really happy with that, and switched to abstract/painting style like Saul Leiter, Ernst Haas. I'm sure it's not widely considered as "street photography", but rather "abstract photography done in the street". Sure debating semantics is fun, but you wouldn't be a better photographer only by intellectual exercise 😬

[@GeorgeHolden]

Very true! I really like Saul Leiter's work but yeah it definitely is more abstract than anything I shoot - and yes, you need to snap frames more than playing mind games!

[@andrewnicholls5745]

Ive really enjoyed your style of presenting and im glad that I found you on here , keep up the great work.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks Andrew, really appreciate that!

[@nirceu]

Love this essay. Thank you!

[@robertotellez3142]

Just started using Portrait Mode immediately after watching this ad. Such a cool idea, excited to see it grow. Thank you for sharing this amazing app with your community.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing! Hope you enjoy!

[@chrisgrieves1468]

Thoughtful and well-articulated. Bravo, George. For me 'street photography' is just that, photography in the street. It matters nought whether there's people, 'things', colours, scenes, energy, shapes. But here's the thing: it's a smart phone world and today while it's true your best camera is the one you have with you, so there's good in that - there's moments and there's creative images. For most there's just the first, for a photographer, there's both. And more, which is why we do this.

[@JacAlexandru]

OMG I relate to this so much! ❤ I am struggling so much with just upping my skills in street photography. I tried several styles of photography and SP is what I enjoy the most. Tx!

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing!!

[@leeds-yoga9265]

There are too many gatekeepers in street photography. It came to a head for me when I paid far too much money to walk round my own city with a racist, git, street guru. He spent the whole time telling us how much better other cities were. I'm now an urban photographer and feel free to shoot anything I want to...

[@TheUrbandilema]

Street photography is the documenting or capturing the human presence on the street or public places eg beaches, neighbourhoods,etc. I do street as creative output to enjoy the process and the learning the process from my experience.I do not do it for fame but the joy and creativity. Great vid 👍 and you honoured a lot of the iconic photographers..cudos mate

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thank you and thanks for sharing that perspective as well!

[@MKIVD]

I started out as a street photographer but kind of placed myself in a box because of that. Now it's just photography for me. However, every time I do street photography, I always tell myself to let the viewer depict a story. Because if I take a picture of someone walking, then it's someone.... walking. Street photography can be boring, that is why I add spice to it in the form of: 1. Storytelling. I came from a photojournalism background so it is embedded deep in me, and; 2. Juxtapositioning. Every time I try to juxtaposition, I find myself shooting subjects of contrasting age or activities. Maybe this is what I am drawn to. This is what I do to spice up my street photography and not to make it look like "just another faux black and white street photo"

[@skylark6167]

It's an interesting question. I'm fairly new to the idea of street photography as a genre, but I'd mostly interpreted it as a thing you do rather than a type of photo, like you go out in the street with a camera and see what you find, rather than going hiking or sitting in a studio or going to a specific event. I guess unless you're very professional and always going out with super specific aims, most people would be blurring the lines between genres anyway just by snapping away at whatever strikes their interest.

[@nothingtobeconcernedabout7477]

Also a small point to consider if you are in the EU. Here, in the EU, there are the GDPR laws as well as the privacy laws. If you take a photo of someone and make them the focus of the photo, the subject of the photo, then they are legally in the right to ask you to delete it. If you don't delete it and publish it, or if you publish it without the subject knowing, then they are in the right to ask you to remove it. They can even legally enforce it if necessary. This includes non commercial use such as a pure personal photo IG profile. Example: Someone photographed a lady that was dressed extravagantly and was sticking out of the crowd. It was not during an event or so. He took her photo without her knowing and posted it on socials. She saw it and demanded it to be taken down. He refused so it went to court. She won and he had to take it down or face hefty fines. The reasoning was that she was clearly the subject of the photo and clearly recognizable. Hence she retained the full rights to her appearance and so she could enforce the removal of the photo that he took. EDIT: Small addition. if you take photos of people you can always post them, but when they ask you remove it, you better remove it. Also if someone sees you taking it and doesn't say no, then you can also post it, but even if they verbally or non-verbally consented to the photo, they can withdraw their consent later. The only true solution to it is to use contracts that clearly state the rights of the different parties involved.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing!

[@petermartin9494]

Very confusing. To me a person in a public setting is a person in a public setting.

[@alexc6784]

Portrait Mode looks good. Just signed up and followed you😅

[@GeorgeHolden]

Awesome!

[@brianmckeever5280]

Interesting perspective. I don't personally feel a need to categorize the images I take. When I bother to categorize, I'm not sure I'd care if someone else said it was another type.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks Brian, that's great to hear and shows you have confidence! I'm obviously quite the over thinker so like to delve into the semantics from time to time

[@bcegerton]

Love it mate, the first comment that you used in the video, at 5.39 or thereabouts, is from one of my fellow Admins in a Facebook Group ( International Amateur Street Photography Group ) saying Street Portraits wind him up, I’ve got to use this against him somehow now, he may see this or it may be in the Discord group. I’ve been in Manchester tonight but just couldn’t get the feel of it, not done much this year due to injury etc and it’s taking me a while to get back into it, plus I’m not fully fit yet, well I’ll never be fully fit but as fit as I was I guess. Hope to see you out and about soon, keep up the great work

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks Brian, that's funny you know the commenter! Hope you're recovered soon, yes this coming week I'm hoping to get our a few times with film and digital

[@bcegerton]

@@GeorgeHolden I went into Town for Manchester Day, first time since the very first one about 12 years ago, only because it always fell on the same day as the Horwich Carnival which I was usually in, all down to my Sister in Law being the one running it so I felt obliged.

[@philbarber9738]

While mostly on the streets I place my beach photography and portrait photography of strangers under the same rubric of "street photography," so it might be argued candid is a more appropriate definition but it doesn't define the uncertainty of the endeavor the way "street" does; that you are working without a net. Nice to see Garry Winogrand mentioned, probably influenced me more than any other steet photographer. Gildan on the other hand with his intrusive and "artificial" (flash) work represents the worst, reminding me of me at my regrettable worst. Interesting topic and discussion, thanks.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks very much for watching and sharing!

[@randyk1919]

When I first took up photography as a hobby I also joined the yearbook staff at my high school. If I recall correctly, there was no such term as "street photography" being bandied about in the late 1970's but my working definition of this genre was, and is, largely informed by the word the yearbook staff used when we photographed the classes, clubs, etc, around our school: "Candids". That said I love urban landscapes probably even more.. so if that's also "street" then yeah, most definitions are probably too restricting and ought to be ignored.

[@joltby]

i dont even do street photography but your videos are soooo so good

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks so much man!

[@leirumf5476]

I agree with the stranger online. Although I'm trying to do more street photography lately 🙈

[@skumov]

Here in Bulgaria we don't like the term "street photography" (it doesn't translate very nice). Instead we have two great examples from the old masters. First one is "non event documentary photography" and "photography of the daily life". I think they sounds more accurate, because "street" photography isn't necessarily taken on the street.

[@lorenschwiderski]

Street photography seems like a logical term to use. One can drill-down from street photography into street portraits, street architecture, street art / closeups and whatever you wish. Documentary work need not be entertaining or artistic. Flashing someone to get a shock reaction is cheap and nasty, giving street photographers a bad name. If people disagree, so be it, but I see it as fact and would fully expect to be punched by someone in the process. It is disruptive to true street photography, where you step lightly, record the moment and exit without a bruising of scene. Garry was an interesting sort. He loved to photograph things just to see how they would look in a photograph. I agree that this is a big part of all photography, taking something and hopefully transforming it into something more grand than what was presented. After returning from vacations (holidays) people would look at photos of the sites I took and would say it is really nice there, to which I would say, you can do a lot with photos to make things appear grander than what was seen at the time. That was indeed part of the joy of photography. The street is all of that and being in the middle of the action, with fellow humans - lovely people, along with the sights and sounds. It is a feeling where you lose yourself, which is also something Garry stated. I think most street and general photographers get lost in the moment when photographing. This is a good thing. I would never where headphones. All the senses need to be ramped-up and tuned into the street scene for it to work. I use SmugMug for my site, but should look into this thing called Portrait Mode to share with other people doing street work. Loren Schwiderski - Central Coast of California

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks Loren for sharing your perspective, appreciate you sharing!

[@mishnanua2038]

I think street photography is determined by the photographer, it is their interpretation of it

[@derstepp]

Interesting takes on what street photography is. It surely is hard to define but maybe there relies the magic of the genre Idk lol. I'd love to watch a video of yours about the "real/good" photography vs snapshots debate.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks and thanks for watching! That is definitely a concept I've considered, but I also feel like I don't have a solid thread to pull on yet 😂

[@trip_the_deep]

quick way to get rid of the after auto creating captions in Resolve is to open it in notepad, go edit>replace and then replace them all with an empty field. weird that they havent fixed this.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Fixed!

[@thedarkslide]

George, get yourself a copy of "Bystander - a History of Street Photography" by Colin Westerbeck & Joel Meyerowitz. Meyerowitz and Westerbeck discuss the nature of the genre and what defines it - from then to now. It's probably the most authoritative view on the genre by two of the most knowledgeable subject matter experts.

[@GeorgeHolden]

That sounds great, I will get one!

[@martingreenberg870]

@@GeorgeHolden Fully agree. This is an a book for anyone who wants to know the history of the genre. It helps clarify what street photography is. Winnogrand is entitled to his opinion. I like the term. It isn’t a precise term but gives one a sense of what you are doing. Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)

[@lifetimesofamultiplemediam1003]

To me there's Street Photography, and there's photography in the street!… they are not both the same, although you can be doing both simultaneously in one outing. You can be Fan-Ho style shadow-hunting one minute, and someone suddenly strikes a pose in front of your lens, now you are shooting portraits. You can be shooting cityscapes, and then suddenly photo journalism as some newsworthy event happens right in front of you. There can be a band playing or some amazing street performer, and you can flip your camera into video mode, and now you are a videographer… or a vlogger, or an interviewer… All these things can happen in the street, but the actual subset that they belong in is determined by your motive for shooting that thing in the first place. Just my 2p…

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thank you, that's very well put and totally clear and makes sense - I feel it makes more sense than this whole video!

[@RobotNick64]

Very good video. Thank you for this. I think with regards to money you have a point. If you put it first, it’s a struggle. If you put passion, fun, emotion and creativity first, it will eventually follow later but you will have a hard time financially in the beginning. That’s the price for it I reckon. I only photograph for a hobby so no financial constraints to it. Somebody else mentioned „reactivity“ in man’s made environment here. As far as I see it this nails it for me with regards to the term „street“ photography.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing!

[@enossifiedossified3145]

I used to do a lot of "street photography" but I didn't really think about it as such. I was living in a city in a foreign country, I had a brand new camera and I would walk around with my friends and take pictures of them and others while also taking shots of the city scenery. I've spent most of my life living in small towns and I don't live in a city any more, although there are two large ones nearby. I never think about gong there to just wander around taking pictures. Maybe because it's not as exotic as living in a foreign country? I think what I really do I is take pictures related to whatever I'm doing at the time. My wife is a birder and a gardener, so I started shooting birds and other nature. I'm a music fan so I've shot live music performances over five decades now. On bicycling or hiking trips, when I see something interesting I'll stop and take a picture. Sometimes when I don't have another camera with me I'll use my phone but I do not enjoy phones as cameras. My phone pictures are just snapshots. When I shoot with a real camera I'm looking for shots that are worth printing.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thanks for sharing!

[@LarryFasnacht]

Does There Need to be a Point should be a title of a book. How about a sub title of “the Philosophic Photographer”. Nice video, thank you. I’m still confused about the term “Street Photography “ but I now feel better about it.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Would be a great book title and thank you±

[@wetbaloney]

can you get the html tags out of your captions?

[@GeorgeHolden]

Have swapped to using davinci resolve captions and need to sort the issue - will fix 👍

[@derrenleepoole]

I just call it documentary photography. The term ‘street’ is useful I guess, in as much that the use of it immediately presents a mental impression that is quick to understand to the layperson. But ultimately it’s not completely descriptive or helpful as a term as it can mean many things to many people, as the video commentary eludes to. This works for me, but again probably not for somebody else.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Cheers Derren! I guess that means you tend to shoot more documentarian subjects and style? Sometimes I definitely feel more documentary in some of my shooting

[@derrenleepoole]

@@GeorgeHolden yeah, I do try ‘street’ from time to time…. But really I’m just documenting what I see, or even feel about a scene. I don’t class myself as a street photographer really. The zone focusing tricks used on ‘street’ I apply to festivals when I work them. Did this recently at Beatherder actually. I suppose the problem with trying to quantify something, is it can mean something completely different to someone else. This difference in understanding could be educational, cultural or even just a basic lack of understanding, or misunderstanding of a term. Interesting stuff for sure.

[@GeorgeHolden]

@@derrenleepoole That's really interesting to hear, thanks man - also I've still not been to Beatherder but hear great things!

[@derrenleepoole]

@@GeorgeHolden If I can get a plus one next year.... I'll hit you up! I'm the tog at The Perfumed Garden. it's an assault on the senses :)

[@YaYousef5]

The thing about street photography is that it's explotative. Legally, it's fine to take someone's photo in public. But ethically, you're using that photo for your own personal and financial gain without sharing any of it with the person you're photographing. For example, your channel features a number of photos of people on the street. You're using those photos to increase your social media, build your KZbin channel and make money from KZbin adsense revenue, selling presets, selling your work in the form of prints/books, etc. And the people you're photographing on the street don't get anything in return. While it's not legally required to consent for a photo, even if you were to ask if you could take someone's photo, you're lying by omission because you're not telling them that you may use the photo to make money. Even if you were to ask for consent and compensate them, say $10-$100 for their photo, it still pales in comparison to the amount of money you can make from making the video and using it to build your brand. That's why I stopped doing street photography. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

[@GeorgeHolden]

That's a very interesting point, I think in this video I mainly shared others work but yes of course I share my own images of other people - most of which recently have been with consent, but yes you are totally right in the fact that we as photographers can make money from the work while the subjects don't receive anything. With regards to my channel, very few street videos get views while camera videos do get views - classic audience interests. But yes a POV for example would get views purely off of the photos of strangers taken, then the video could make hundreds or thousands just on ads if you got a good amount of views (many POVs struggle to get 100 views) I suppose the argument becomes tricky when we consider 'social hacking' and other topics that rely on another person's likeness without their consent, even newspapers or news videos online. These outlets specifically use an exact person's face and name to game the system and get views, clicks or sales - so when it comes to street of a neutral representation of a nameless stranger I feel it's less dangerous. I'm very much thinking out loud here, what do you think?

[@shawnlee1862]

good video

[@GeorgeHolden]

Thank you!

[@2DogAle]

I always wonder if we need to put a label on things to make it real. When you say “I am just not my self today”, it’s open for interpretation right? What does that mean? Now, if you say “I have the sniffles and a fever” then I know exactly what you meant. Not sure if the makes sense but what I am saying is that we seem to have to have a label in order to define something that may not be definable. Candid or Street or Street Portrait, well I say it’s just photography.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Totally makes sense and love the perspective, great idea. And yes it's just photography, which is something I'm coming to learn

[@Fecho33]

The Ny city youtuber influencer take is very pretentious and funny, for older people like me, i agree it can be kind of harmful for new generations and confusing for people living in other countries with a different energy and variety of subjects, you always need to go back to the masters... everytime i get confused about taking photos on the street or documenting i watch Alex Webbs work.... shot in big cities, small towns, country side, the us, south america, africa, many people in one shot, just one subject on one shot, vibrant colors, just one color, you name it, dogs and feet, portraits, commun and uncommon situations and it connects every time. These influencers say things like "I being on it quite a looong time, ive been shooting on the streets like 5 years"...... a work like "the suffering of light" took more than 30 years and i asume millions of photos, so yeah, young people doing content and trying their best, the pretentious vibe is just a stage, mean while the content si funny if you dont take it seriously, if you want to get serious get a photobook of any Magnum photographer and watch it by yourself.

[@chrissnyder4439]

The thing that bothers me the most about street photography is the seemingly elitist gatekeeping associated with it. I don't care if you're photographing at 28, 35, 50, 85 or 200mm. I don't care if you're using a zoom instead of a prime. I don't care if the photographs are candid or not. You don't need to justify yourself. Also, does there need to be a point to it? I'd say yes, but that point can be as simple as "I like doing it."

[@TAdams-hx9lk]

Really enjoyed your video and content. Would have appreciated more time to actually read the comments you included. Way to fast for me to enjoy...just my opinion.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Appreciate the feedback, will note!

[@kiwipics]

Bruce Gilden style "street" photography is the type of photographer that gets up most peoples noses. The "false" hassle free street portrait photographer AKA the TikToker photographer ("hi, my names David / Josh / Jennifer".. etc) just doesn't exist outside of TikTok land. Random shots of cigarette butts, chewing gum on the ground and endless shots of tumble weeds in the mid west of America just bore me to tears. What is "street" ?? .... It's like wild west land out there, lawless and nobody has a clue really. Just get out there, shoot what you can shoot legally and don't give a hoot about having a tag / label for your work.

[@drdj2626]

@fufu1405 well said [7:20]. in almost every single of Walkie Talkie episodes I watched there was just a guy/girl with an expensive camera taking random snapshots of random things and/or people and calling that art. even the most hyped ones, you know the ones who are supposedly actually good photographers, majority of the photos taken were just trash can material, something a nobody like myself would be ridiculed for if I shared that on a photography group. but since they are almost all nyc based hyped leica shooters with lots of followers, every single crooked, poorly composed, uninspired picture from their camera is considered a piece of high art. oh, and they also talk a lot of the smell of their own farts. such a circlejerk.

[@GeorgeHolden]

eh

[@drdj2626]

@@GeorgeHoldenexactly

[@monkeysausageclub]

Portrait Mode is a cool app but why would you promote something you don't appear to use?

[@GeorgeHolden]

I just started using it! I've kept up with the platform for a while, but connected with the team and finally gave it a go - I'll be posting regularly 👍

[@bobmorr2892]

If I don't get it. Street photography that nobody will buy. Street photography that is rude taking pictures of people without asking. I've seen you ask on your videos but most people don't. I think spending a bunch of money on camera equipment to take photographs on the street that are pretty much worthless seems pretty stupid to me.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Fair point!

[@yargnad]

The exceptionally clueless comment from @AI-Hallucination about there being no such thing as street photography obviously hasn't been paying attention to the the past 80 years or so of the art form. It has, basically, always been around and, although historically there have been more white photographers celebrated than otherwise, it's only recently become a "trend" with the rise of social media. In fact, there are quite a few non-white street photographers now which I immensely enjoy watching. Paulie B showcases many of them in his walkie talkie series.

[@GeorgeHolden]

True Paulie B has introduced me to many interesting US based female photographers as well, a nice change from the photographers I've followed in the past!

[@grahamniven]

All this genre stuff is a load of bollocks. There are only two types of photographs. Photographs you like and the other ones.

[@GeorgeHolden]

Simple and I like it!