why fat victoria’s secret angels don’t work

[@ruminationstation4200]

VS is hilariously behind the times. A DECADE AGO, people were saying the style was struggling to keep up witj the new more minimalist aesthetics. But now that hyper femme is back in, they start dropping it. They're clueless

[@mckenziejeanne4508]

I’ve always loved VS clothes because they’re super girly. I haven’t shipped there in like 2 years just because everything is so beige now. :( I want my pink sparkles back.

[@sofiaa_abad]

RIGHT??? i miss the sparkles :(

[@Rosemary46840]

Who cares about the times

[@wolfgangamadeusmozart1532]

​@Rosemary46840 the majority of VS's target audience 😭

[@Imxel21]

@@Rosemary46840capitalists do

[@bluestpaw]

victoria secret being founded by a man because he felt uncomfortable with something mainly targeting woman feels oddly fitting

[@ExploreEmbraceExpress]

Let's talk about THIS part

[@atomic_tubetop]

Yeah but I also don't think it worked bc the majority of men that I know do not feel comfortable going into a Victoria secret which is why this feels so bizarre to me 😂😂

[@s_fashionlover]

It wasn’t that though. He founded it because he wanted to buy lingerie for his wife but sales assistants always treated him weirdly for being in lingerie boutiques. The OG Victoria’s Secret was very different than today. Unfortunately, some years after he sold the brand, he died by suicide.

[@atomic_tubetop]

@@s_fashionlover huh that is so interesting, thank you for letting me know :)

[@st3458]

I laughed when I found that out because the reason he made the brand isn’t even what be happening men feel uncomfortable in that store or you will never catch a man by himself buying his wife or girlfriend something from there

[@helenaap2042]

It feels live VS is saying "see people??The models look ugly bc curvy is ugly. You wanted ugly? We served ugly!" Of course its gonna look bad if they don´t believe it is ever going to look on anyone they don´t find worthy. They look like a whiny child doing chores haphazardly after being scolded.

[@JellyOnAPancakeAyyyy]

😔 guess we’re never gonna win…

[@LoneWulf278]

SUCH an accurate description. 😂

[@cocolove9916]

they aren't curvy they are fat lmaoo how do you think the photos would look when somone is over 200 lb...

[@katiebailey3439]

Yeah. It would have been better if they did the fantasy thing they usually do

[@cocolove9916]

@@katiebailey3439 exactly

[@Mae11549]

People are mad that the glam is gone and they’re blaming it on curvy women rather than the brand because that’s exactly what VS wanted.

[@ifykyk679]

More like fat women.

[@ttyl-nt3vk]

Hmmm

[@luvusm111]

there are standards and their shoving bad style and plus size in our faces instead of keeping the og brand going and everyone is sensitive because everyone needs a trophy nowadays and cant accept the models are preferably skinny

[@ifykyk679]

@@luvusm111 you're so right. Curvy and fat women should just stay away from modelling. Ik i sound harsh but it's the truth. They don't look good, let's be real for once.

[@ifykyk679]

@@luvusm111 you're so right. Curvy and fat women should just stay away from modelling. Ik i sound harsh but it's the truth. They don't look good, let's be real for once.

[@jenniferwest3085]

I have a theory that the whole "departure from their original brand" is super intentional In the sense that, they DON'T WANT plus size models, they're only doing because they feel like they HAVE to. They're intentionally making it look like shit and feel less glamorous because they want people to think that plus size models look like shit and aren't glamorous. It's not the models fault, it's the styling, clothes, vibes COMPLETELYand the fact that those things SUCK is absolutely not a coincidence in my opinion. They're doing this so they can go back to super skinny models without looking like villains for it.

[@forgedwithsteel]

Be real, how is a fat person attractive?

[@Nr1dekufan]

Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking, plus size models can look beautiful, but the way they styled it was not fit for plus sized people and their bodies.

[@Κάσσι]

You're 100% correct. It's basically just "we don't want to do this but everyone is nagging us so we're going to do it but we're going to make it look like shit so everyone will hate it and just give up".

[@sb853547]

Wow seriously you saw this year's fashion show right it is what it is stop trying to sell uour eoke shit on everyone yo sound good and morally correct.

[@duskydewdrop]

​@@sb853547Exactly. I mean they can have different sizes at the store but I think runway models should be fit and feminine. I'm a woman too, if I wanna look at people like myself I'd rather go to Walmart or look in the mirror They're supposed to sell fantasy not reality. If I wanna imagine myself wearing a lingerie I'd wanna imagine myself look like Kate Moss😅 I think the founder preferred skinner models and didn't want the inclusion

[@angelbby4444]

all people asked was to see more sizes on the runway and they simply decided scrap everything VS was known for. they really said oh you want fatties?then no glamour🙄

[@ximena1832]

THISSSSSS

[@yomama69157]

For real!! Instead of including a range of sizes and bodies into the ~fantasy~ of vs, they scraped the whole idea? Why? bc people with a normal bmi aren't capable of fitting into their idea of a fantasy?

[@dawnbreeze222]

this !!! you can do classy, glamorous, hot pink, sparkly, dewy, femenine... (yk, the aesthetic the vs angels were known for) in all shapes and sizes !

[@rachelpatterson2327]

@@yomama69157 obesity is not a normal BMI, I’m sorry but if someone is over a size 8 or 10 is not healthy. I know 00 is not healthy either but they could have just done a show with people size 0-8 and still made it glamorous

[@Beanits]

​​@@rachelpatterson2327yeah absolutely, because obese people don't deserve to have cute clothes or things they feel good in. You know, to make sure they feel really bad about something they're already aware of. (sarcasm)

[@Star_sweeper]

As a plus sized woman, I’m mostly just bored with brands thinking plus size lingerie needs to be beige/black and plain as hell. Give us bigger girls the hot pink bedazzled glamour!

[@milaces1323]

YES!

[@ExploreEmbraceExpress]

Yes! I teach sensual dance and finding clothes is like 🫠

[@sweetI6]

they do not know how to dress curvy girls at all.

[@LaCrownedGamer]

Right? Like I just want bras and underwear to fit well and make me feel sexy when I wear them. plain jane colors can only do so much. It is always function over fashion when you can literally have both.

[@missdemeanour6981]

I've wanted this blue and green (jewel tone) bra set I saw years ago. It didn't go past a c cup 🤔

[@kingkamala39]

As a model who is pretty much the sample size… the things that men especially in the industry will say to you when they believe your “safe” to fat shame around is insane. VS is definitely saying “you guys wanted bigger? Well here, see how bad it looks?” It’s not right but the industry is not NEARLY as open as media and print modeling is is portraying it to be

[@dw9524]

Yep I gained weight recently and on a course i was taking this guy avoided me, was chatting shit about me and kept calling me fat behind my back. To this day I don't know his name. He didn't even bother to introduce himself to me like the other classmates. He spent more time talking trash ABOUT me than bothering to actually speak TO me and get to know me as his Co worker. It was so fucked up. And everybody laughed and enabled him.

[@Okok-zk9zf]

men having the audacity to think you’re a “safe space” for their bigotry, ESPECIALLY fat shaming, is so real

[@dw9524]

@@Okok-zk9zf get a man around a skinny blonde and I promise you you'll see how he REALLY feels about women. He'll throw every woman under the bus and fat shame in order to impress her I promise. And no she doesn't have to be white either. Just blonde (wig or dyed) and skinny. You'll see or overhear everything.

[@boredrat2573]

I think people in general are not as open to plus sized people in stuff tho. I really don’t like when people push the blame onto something else.

[@porterwake3898]

Men aren't in the fashion industry. It is all gays and women.

[@hanamaria777]

WE WANT THE OLD SHOWS BACK! The same exact thing- except more sizes. What don't they get?! Beauty glamour is not what we wanted them to get rid of

[@DaPieruk]

⁠@@chcuumritwho said they can’t come in different sizes as well? One doesn’t exclude the other

[@lilcomment]

@@chcuumrit Angels don’t walk on earth. If you want to see angels then uh you can 👉 ⚰️ ☠️

[@lilcomment]

@@chcuumrit Angels don’t walk on earth. If you want to see angels then uh you can 👉 ⚰️ ☠️

[@chcuumrit]

@@lilcomment bro.. u never heard of vs angels?

[@chcuumrit]

@@DaPieruk there is difference between angels that are real models and “angels” that can model max in line for fast food

[@bclubofawesomeness2894]

you can have plus sized women in angel wings and lingerie, idk what’s complicated about it 😭😭😭 it feels like they said “oh, we need to be inclusive? that means we don’t need to make these ppl look good.”

[@Rosemary46840]

What are you talking about ? They're literally dressed in the same outfits the thin women are y'all just think the fat women don't look good in them, hence proving Victoria's secret original point.

[@zaynmalikxoxo]

nah fr like they could've kept the wings and original makeup and lingerie style AND include plus size ppl cause why did they have to change the entire design?

[@bclubofawesomeness2894]

@@Rosemary46840 you need to style for the body type of the model. not every outfit will work for every body type, but there are styles that play to each types strengths. the issue is that they were thrown into the same outfits as skinny women without the same level of tailoring. victoria clearly did not put as much effort into these models as they had previously. not to mention the lack of the most iconic part of any victoria’s secret fashion show- the lingerie and angel wings as mentioned previously. my point, while not fully enunciated, was made quite clear in my original comment.

[@jasmintea8825]

I’m sure people would still find something to complaint

[@CelestialSylph143]

@@Rosemary46840 and theyre all wearing bad outfits and they all look bad. hence the original comment

[@angelinaveneziano5303]

The issue is not the "trend" but the execution. Savage x Fenty did what Victoria Secret did but did it BETTER and inclusive.

[@run2gianna]

their ads and campaigns portray that u can be both big and sexy at the same time, that’s ALL is needed from Victoria’s secret! or just maybeeee not selling the idea that u need to starve urself to be beautiful like???

[@vevediyoyo3518]

But also Savage X Fenty was inclusive from the jump which is not VS case.

[@violetblythe6912]

I worked for their customer support chat for years and the amount of times I was asked if we carried someone’s size and did not was downright embarrassing. This is literally the most iconic western women’s brassiere/lingerie brand and they don’t even carry that extensive of a size selection. Also the quality has gone to HECK. I remember as a teen in the early 00’s saving up to buy their bras because they were the most comfortable fit and higher quality than the department store ones I had. Now their bras fall apart in a year and most are so uncomfortable. They have so many repetitive and random products on their website now bc they’re trying to compete with SHEIN-type fast fashion sites. Inb4 someone says something dumb about how VS shouldn’t have plus sizes - I’m not even just talking just plus sizes. If you have a small band size but xtra large breasts there’s a good chance they don’t have your size either.

[@01neveroddoreven10]

⁠​⁠@@violetblythe6912their a cup bras have always sucked. The materials might've been good quality before but the cups have never fit me. As big as vs is and with how long they've been around you would think they would have expanded on their sizes by now. I think they should either start making plus sizes and better options for smaller cup sizes or at least start advertising that they only sell b-dd

[@takiablack994]

Period and that’s. The point that trying to be them with there remix and it’s not working!!

[@carinag4635]

i think theyre purpoisely sabotaging the models to make ppl want the old models back. you're telling me they COMPLETELY CHANGED EVERYTHING and cut back on glam, makeup, outfits, and shoved the models in unflattering clothes and yall think it was pure intentions??

[@alyssah8057]

Maybe. But I feel like they more so just half assed. Get rid of the fantasy, attractive side because all they know is thin and old VS.

[@carl_aryee]

Lmao , I was thinking the same thing 😂😂😂 they want people to want the old Victoria secret

[@name8220]

I thought like this but you think they wasted money like that?

[@carl_aryee]

@@name8220 honestly… I think the love the beauty standard more, they also know who they want to sell too and need to “ pacify “ the sjw journalists and twitter people with a “ here damn “ and make everyone clown them 😂 that’s my wacky guess

[@diemdia]

This was my thought too. Give the people what they want, but do it in a way (ie badly lol) that makes them reconsider whether that’s what they actually wanted. Then rinse and spit and go back to how it was before. Also this is a very successful and I assume wealthy company. If they thought this plan would work, then I don’t think they would view it as a waste of money

[@aliciainvernongarrido2315]

They could have done the same type of shows as before (with the music and the classy, shiny and magical underwear) BUT including bodies of all sizes. I think people like the fantasy VS creates, and it can also be created in an inclusive way. It would have been a better option instead of changing the whole format of the show.

[@cocolove9916]

no one wants to really see certain body types even if its pushed as "woke" as you can see by the shock most people have. Being worke is killing the brand ..

[@AvrilFanCarson]

​@@cocolove9916ew what in the fatphobic conservativism

[@Littlepinkietoe]

@@cocolove9916Body types are not “woke” 😐

[@LagoonaGhoul12]

@@cocolove9916u think different body types are woke which is funny, you should honestly self reflect and realize that just like the rest of us u have been brainwashed about what should be the “norm“ in media (skinny white people with perfect bodies). And if u look up their brand, people stopped shopping there before the inclusivity thing because the brand was exposed.Their sales went down, and they came back with the illusion of inclusivity while removing the original format, basically saying that inclusivity is bland. So no “wokeness” didn’t kill the brand, it’s the brand desperately trying to sabotage “wokeness” after they were exposed as a disgusting superficial company. And considering they struggled for a while it shows that consumers do care where they spend their money. There’s no excuse considering brands like Savage x Fenty and Selkie still managed to include the “fantasy” and “whimsical” aspect in their brand and are successful.

[@taiyabazaheer9492]

​@@cocolove9916exactly. We wanna keep the fantasy alive. We don't wanna see fatties on the runway. I'm a short girl and I like only thin and tall models on the runway because only they look good there. But I hate that VS was extremely toxic and misogynist to the models , calling thin but not starving models like Gigi and Barbara 'plus size' just because they look like they won't drop dead next second. They made a post partum Adriana starve. If they took just fit models , I would have no problem.

[@evemorgan1318]

Selkie did everything Victoria Secret should have done. All sizes are represented and look amazing

[@rainy1211]

Fr their runways are so magical they actually love women unlike vs.

[@ladolcevitan]

Oohhhh believe meee, this was 1000% INTENTIONAL, Would they spend some millions over an expected failure? Yes, they can do that, they can waste some money just to make a HUGE statement to THE WHOLE WORLD, "Look how inclusivity ruins everything", "90's - 2000 VS models where better", cigarettes are trendy now, 90's skinny is back, idk, this all is called a marketing strategy for something and I'm mad af.

[@ttyl-nt3vk]

Hmmm

[@yasmina3999]

but why would they want people to change their minds about being inclusive? isn't it too much work ?

[@tk2730]

I think they should’ve included a greater array of bodies, in the original shows, rather than creating a whole new brand. It seems like they are saying that the original outfits the angels wore, are not meant to be on several different body types. And they had to change the entire brand, in a pretty unflattering way, in order to be inclusive. If they had included more diverse body types in the original shows, this could’ve been avoided. And I really thinks that’s what people are annoyed about overall.

[@tpaiaiaiaiaiain9227]

That's exactly what they're saying and what they've always said. They've always catered their brand toward a certain body type. That's why I don't get why people try to force inclusivity because it doesn't usually work. It's better to let your money talk and go for brands that actually cater to your wants and needs. companies who want to gain the profit from becoming inclusive will do so on their own.

[@bgallls]

you said exactly what i was trying to say. very well said ♥️

[@rosewaters9991]

This!!! As a short woman who has been a little overweight for most of her life, I used to joke about being a victoria secret cherub😂

[@canesugar911]

They are also intentionally sabotaging the shows and using the outrage as an excuse to go back to their original programming.

[@tk2730]

@@tpaiaiaiaiaiain9227 I definitely agree, but it feels similar to being inclusive with skin tones and ethnicity. I think all brands should represent all people. And I think it’s good that people are calling out brands like VS to meet the standard for ethnic, and body diversity. Most women, Including the old Vs models aren’t naturally extremely thin. I’m a model, and was forced to lose weight to get into the size 0-4 range, and almost died. Dealt with severe muscle weakness in my neck, and still struggle with some weakness today. Now I’m a 6-8. Which is just normal. I’m still modeling because the industry has changed quite a bit. But the fantasy they’ve been selling this entire time is starved women. And fantasy shouldn’t be unhealthy. That it what people have been saying this entire time, including Victoria secret models who’ve talked about starving themselves. I do think Victoria secret being called out was good, but it seems at the end of the day, they want women to continue to starve themselves in order to have access to glamour. Unfortunately, I think we lost this battle. But they shouldn’t be able to go back to the old shows, with out being inclusive. And if we can get there then great. But brands should always represent several body types, and I believe that standard needs to be upheld to protect the health and image of women.

[@LagoonaGhoul12]

What some people don’t understand is that before they did the whole inclusivity thing, their sales were going down and they even closed down stores because people found out about the things that were happening behind the scenes and stopped supporting them.And now it seems like they’re purposefully overdoing the whole inclusivity and brand change thing to distract and have people be like “I miss the old VS”, they could come back with the old format and basically revive VS while everyone else forgets why VS was “cancelled” in the first place. It’s a smart marketing strategy.

[@savage.4.24]

Ive said this too.

[@GrungeGalactica]

I wouldn’t be surprised if those VS shows started having the opposite effect. they had this fantasy standard that even the models had to dehydrate & starve themselves for. Feels like they gate kept/c0ck blocked themselves with all that bs. Truth is most of us are getting bigger and skinny is a minority.

[@auespaa]

and being skinny is trendy again, wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years we go back to the old VS show

[@lucianajera8214]

This actually makes so much sense, it has to be intentional because they’re doing it wrong in so many ways

[@kant.68]

Nice conspiracy theory

[@Sickle.Pickle]

all vs really had to do was add in a full inclusive range of models in the traditional fashion shows and add more inclusive sizes in stores.. that's literally it. their whole rebrand was like an "ok fine here's our half assed version" to the public.

[@riellereally]

it's like the audience wanted VS to go a certain direction and then VS tried to travel the whole globe just to avoid going that direction

[@elfenliar]

i feel like a brand like victoria’s secret that’s trying to be more inclusive should still try to keep the whole unrealistic, fantasy vibe going jus include curvy people. we don’t wanna see curvy models in target lingerie and wings, we wanna see “outstandingly” beautiful models of all sides in ANGEL attire.

[@maeveeeeee1]

yea the whole sort of Victoria’s Secret is the fantasy and unrealistic beauty that should be EXclusive and curvier people CAN be like that there’s so many beautiful plus size woman out there but not putting plus size woman in ridiculously unflattering clothes with unflattering makeup

[@vjerez1149]

100% !!!!! VS fans have been saying this forever. There ARE gorgeous plus sized models with smoking, banging bodies who fit the VS "fantasy". Lots of them! And it's not just the plus sized models VS in its origins always had more voluptuous WOMEN but in the '10s the models started becoming too skinny and young, they were GIRLS. Everyone agree the pinnacle of VS were the mid-early '00s and what they had back then were CONFIDENT SEXY WOMEN, not little girls parading in hideous pedo outfits!

[@hatchettwit]

As a plus size lady, I love seeing plus size representation WHEN IT'S MADE FOR THAT BODY TYPE. Not everything flatters every body type. Where I think companies like VS go wrong is they try to shove everyone into the same thing and don't understand flattering different body types in an industry that considers a normal size woman a plus sized woman and a morbidly obese woman as the end all be all fantasy for most women that are a little overweight at best. And even companies that cater to the larger ladies like myself seem to miss the mark. Catherine's is an excellent example to me, where your underwear options are neutral colors or to look like you went shopping in the children's section. Seriously. Bright yellow undies with beach balls and pink with doggy bones, comes to mind. There has to be something between cramming every body type into the same design and cramming them into designs that gave absolutely no shits.

[@StellaNoire]

@@hatchettwit or fat women can hit the gym? You realise fat is never attractive unless it's fetishised

[@Angelina-my7iz]

I think it also has a lot to due with peoples nostalgia for the original VS angles and fashion show that people grew up on

[@EllinIsLivid]

Yes Victoria secret angles 😂

[@cocolove9916]

exactly the show is ruind now.. all because of "wokeness"

[@carinag4635]

the models themselves spoke out in a documentary about the abuse they faced... they can keep the old angels, add new angels, whatever. they had no reason to cut back on the glam and continue a cycle of abuse and toxicity @@cocolove9916

[@LagoonaGhoul12]

@@cocolove9916it was ruined because they purposefully sabotaged their own show by removing the old format. It would’ve been fine they had the inclusivity w beautiful lingerie in the same format. It’s not wokeness it’s revenge

[@jellyrolly]

yeah i agree. had VS always been plus-size friendly, this would not be a surprise to anyone.

[@hel59]

Plus sized women can absolutely be sexy- an example is curvy burlesque performers in their gorgeous costumes. I think a brand has to believe that plus sized women can be sexy to be able to show it and Victoria's Secret isn't convincing me of that. I guess they really are just pandering to audiences

[@alyssah8057]

Exactly

[@madhatterloveswhiskey2445]

Why don't they create just burlesque lingerie? It looks great on everyone except when you are very fat. But a normal female body looks fabulous in that. And that's what I want to see instead of these fat, jelly bodies. I want healthy, female bodies. In Burlesque lingerie. I would be a big fan of VS then.

[@jaboi7709]

Cough cough Selkieʻs show

[@biazacha]

Just look at Barbie Ferrera, she looks drop dead gorgeous with some pretty showy clothes.

[@Bibirallie]

Curvy and plus size are two different things.

[@Vanessa-vz5cw]

I don't understand why the company didn't try keeping everything the same, still have the hot, glamourous thin people, but also include some hot, glamourous non-thin people. You're still selling ~fantasy~... like if anything you'll be selling to a wider audience because different people have different physical preferences. It seems like it'd be easier and less risky than the entire brand overhaul.

[@chilimango0724]

I completely agree. Bodies are treated like trends and they should not be. Like, 'pretty' should not exclusively be synonymous with toothpick-thin. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone deserves to feel like they can be in the bodies they were given. Even if this was never a priority for VS, It would be pretty repetitive to ONLY ever have the same body type model and nothing else. You could not only expand the fantasy but the market audience as well!

[@Randomlycreatedbyme]

They could have just hired got plus size people (which in the modeling industry is like Ashley Gram not 18+)

[@aaaaaaa-so8op]

​@@chilimango0724fr

[@kant.68]

Yeah…nobody wanna see that. Fat people also like hot people

[@kant.68]

@@chilimango0724 False , false and false. Everything can be a trend because that’s how capitalism and consumerism works. Even body types or life styles. Recently phat asses are trendy right now so you’re wrong

[@appleblossom9042]

i think the big point that people seem to be missing is that the most controversial looks from the show where made by michaela stark who is an artist and visionary that challenges beauty ideals and is known for pushing and binding the body in ways that are generally seen as 'unattractive'. I personally think her work is beautiful and seeing it explored through such a huge brand as victoria secret is soooo cool. She still played with the themes of VS with pink, frilly, fairy-esque imagery but also flipped it on its head. But yh my point is that she isnt a poor girl that was put in a badly fitting outfit, she is one of the designers and is known for dressing this way. :) I hope this is helpful

[@joandarcfeminist]

Yeah idk if VS aren't making clear whats Stark and what's VS but like. I suppose that's what happens when you have a collaboration between people making completely opposing work with fairly similar aesthetics

[@lifespanwellnessbeauty-60i64]

It's lingerie, not rocket science. No offense meant here. What I mean is, who knows this except people that study that and have a niche interest in that sort of thing? The average woman viewing the "show" on Prime, won't understand that aesthetic and just not buy it.

[@user-et9mc6gv3y]

Yeah well said, i loved her looks❤

[@Juliette5044]

Yep exactly what I noticed. Maybe VS didn’t get that they are very much mainstream with a very broad mainstream audience and working together with avant-garde creatives and designers might be confusing for the mainstream audience who will just call the garments ugly since VS is only known for regular shaped underwear.

[@sparklepie]

I heard about this! I actually think the designer’s stuff is pretty cool, however Victoria’s Secret isn’t the right place to show case it

[@maggy5110]

One of the plus models you showed is actually known for wearing clothes that manipulate the fat on her body, she wears tight clothing on purpose and accentuates her fat and rolls on purpose, it’s to subvert the idea of hiding your fat, or using shapewear to create a specific kind of shape, so when you showed her pic and said this isn’t it, that wasn’t fully on Victoria’s Secret, that’s the models artistic brand to create unique shapes with her body fat like that

[@raspberry_froggy4998]

i just commented this. her name is Michaela Stark btw

[@victoriale2792]

For the model at 17:22 that’s her thing, wrapping her body in tight fabric to give her body different and unusual silhouettes. I was fascinated by her Art awhile back.

[@deilen961]

what's the artist called?

[@blkcat-art]

​@@deilen961Michaela Stark

[@deilen961]

@@blkcat-art thank you! helps so much to put that photo in context

[@Fwootgummi]

I agree with this, her work happily lives rent free in my mind. The thing is I think using her, at least in a major way, to promote the brand definitely comes off as an over correction. She offers sexiness that doesn’t pander to the male gaze and I don’t think the world is ready for that yet, but regardless I support VS’s decision.

[@_p0seur]

17:21 this is Michaela Stark. the garment shes wearing is her own. She makes art that intends to challenge our perception of beauty and sexuality by pushing her body and creating contours that arent typically seen on fashion models. so no the stylist doesn't hate her. shes wearing her own art. and it did exactly what it was intended to do.

[@themarshmellow6466]

Girl, this all-natural look is so good on you. You’re like a beautiful queen of nature. You should do this more often! 😁

[@mayacravens]

I agree she’s beautiful either or ✨🌹💋

[@kapncook]

ad ends at 4:21

[@Miss_Patron]

VS fashion show used to be like the model superbowl. It looked on the outside like models worked all year strutting and the top ones became angels. There were white ones, black ones, asian ones, etc. Them adding Kendall jenner and the hadid sisters was when they turned to focusing on playing the younger kids more instead of sticking with what was their branding. There were other ways they could've innovated while staying true

[@StellaNoire]

@Miss_Patron the show itself was boring-

[@annest7694]

17:22 that is a designer, michaela stark, and she put herself in there... generally, she makes a point of using unflattering and awkward silhuettes for her designs and personally i love her, because, for me, lots of times when you're plus sized and try to fit into straight sizes it feels the way that design looks, she really captures that icky feeling of trying on terrible clothes that don't fit and then she markets it as sexy, because in the end looking sexy sometimes feels very awkward and revealing

[@annest7694]

i have a lot of opinions on this, sorry, but victoria secret didn't market fantasy, they marketed insecurity and being inclusive with unconventional designers, like michaela stark can be challenging. i just love her because her main focus is plus sized and she is redefining the given ideas on lingerie with her work and i am upset because i feel she should be recognised instead of bashed because her lingerie isn't 'pretty'

[@x3AnimeFanXD]

It seriously felt like a self-sabotage or them trying to prove to everyone that plus-size would be too ugly by putting random stuff on the plus-size girls.

[@kkswider899]

And that is good! Now damage and in year or two back to normal, because.... people didn’t like ugly! Brilliant strategy! We tried but it didn’t work.

[@athenapromachos3027]

@@kkswider899The point was that they didn't actually fucking try, they gave the plus size girls ugly ass boring shit. Pushing plus size folks down because they didn't want to bother. Which isn't good, it's just a dick move. They could have at least given it an honest shot.

[@onlyimaginaryy]

I think VS is doing it on purpose tbh. 😂 like, “oh, you want real? You want plus size? Fine! Here! Bam!” And they did it without trying so that no one would like it bc it’s completely different 😭

[@arushjain-ns5ug]

I love that they did that lol

[@alisonthompson8427]

I think the reason we all fell in love with it was the fantasy of it all, the skinny beautiful models and the draw. The reason everyone hates it is that its not giving us fantasy anymore, its giving arie. The fashion show was something I watched as a kid and I really loved it because it allowed me to fantasize about being young hot and rich, now its just giving regular girl you pass on the street ig.

[@antiquesewist423]

I think what a lot of people don't want to admit is that the traditional standard of beauty--thin, but curvy, etc.--is still held by almost everyone....INCLUDING plus size people. Everyone wants to look at beauty (insert definition), even if they personally don't match it. Everyone calls for size representation, while not actually finding it appealing.

[@Alex-ms9em]

This is so true!!

[@alaakela]

💯 true. Thank you for saying it.

[@FernandeMitchell]

I disagree. So many people find fat people, POC, genderqueer, etc. etc. to be beautiful too. Seems like maybe you just feel held to the traditional beauty standard but I would say a lot of people find plus size women more attractive than overly thin women. I definitely do I can think of probably twenty other people I know personally that for sure prefer fat body types. I’m sure there is more, but just some I haven’t had a conversation about it with.

[@antiquesewist423]

@FernandeMitchell A lot is still not most, and not nearly enough to bank massive corporations who exist by catering to what has mass appeal. I personally know five people who like anchovies on pizza, but that doesn't mean anything to the whole population that, statistically, really hates it.

[@FernandeMitchell]

@@antiquesewist423 to say hate I just feel like is kind of cruel. Is this what we have been conditioned to like? Maybe not everyone likes anchovies, but most like pizza of all different toppings

[@nafeesanaz]

It's so obvious that it was intentional and people really believe it. I mean for example, if you look at the promotion images for the new models, they are posed in awkward positions, dressed in a way that does not flatter their features whatsoever (For example, the girl shows up for a quick second at 7:44 is pale yet she is put in an extremely light beige outfit? Not to mention her hair isn't even properly styled?) It seems like they're just doing this on purpose so that they can be like "See? We told you guys you wouldnt like it. Now we'll bring back the old models because now you guys wont scrutinize us for it" Which is such a shame because they essentially made these new models look horrendous when they could have absolutely made them look attractive.

[@hayleyfrancise1798]

The woman you showed at 17:17 is the designer Michaela Stark, wearing her own designs, her designs & collaboration with VS are shown after & what people are referring to when they say the pieces don't "fit" - she intentionally molds & morphs the body with corsetry using it less as fashion and more as sculpture, often using the plus sized body as a medium. They're meant to make you uncomfortable. I do think it would've been smarter of VS to show plus-size women more conventionally beautiful but do think it's interesting they chose such an unconventional designer to challenge the way we all see curves. Anyway! Just adding a little fact - your video is great xoxo

[@djorleny]

The old VS fashion show made me want to smell like those girls wearing wings! Idk what the smell was- but it smelled good, sexy, attractive and confident! I could taste the glitter through the screen! Their new stuff feels like hypoallergenic unscented body products. Expensive and boring. VS seriously missed the mark. All us females wanted was a bigger spectrum of sizes. That was it. We never complained about the rhinestoned bras and and hoodies.

[@Samson16436]

Reminds me of my aunt had a biiig collection of all the VS body mists 😊

[@sweetheartangellic]

You nailed that so perfectly, just reminds me of those skincare products with the really bland black and white packaging thats super expensive😂

[@kpoplove783]

I just wish they put effort into making good outfits on plus sized bodies. I absolutely hate the way people are like defending body shaming these models. In my opinion the only reason why VS is including plus sized models is because they are desperately trying to get customers and more people to buy their products, but like their quality had gone down and their ideas are outdated. Also there were plenty of models who talkes about how unsafe and uncomfortable they felt being in those runways. I feel as though people really need to come out with their true intentions. Plus sized bodies can be a fantasy just as straight sized ones. VS just doesnt care to market to an audience they desperately want. So of course its gonna look off. Like they could just keep the angel theme while including good fitting outfits on the models. Anyway good video

[@Lavoura]

yeah, they think since plus size people or just generally normal people are ugly, so they put literally no effort into the clothes.

[@adelaideas]

Genuinely was surprised when you said you weren't wearing makeup! You're glowing in this one :)

[@Airisu_01]

As a Victoria Secret loyalist, I never cared about any of this. Their bras were the only ones that's underwire wouldn't pop out and stab me, their stores feel fun and luxurious, and the bras hold up for many washes. It was never about the models for me, but about the product being superior so I really hope they dont go out of business..

[@LouxNUH]

Dang i always thought their material and way it held up was sub par, tbh. Looked super cute..but fell apart/stretched out quickly compared to other brands.

[@maggiejumphighintothesky5526]

Moral of the story is no one will ever be happy or satisfied.

[@Gigi-rl2hl]

I can't believe these ladies are complaining. I mean talk about virtue signaling

[@notsopjie5801]

for the micheala stark outfits, they're supposed to look like that, it's an art piece it's never gonna be sold like that for victorias secret. It's supposed to showcase what clothes are capable of and putting parts of you that you wouldn't necessarily want people to be drawn to ie your belly and showcasing it rather than hiding it. But i feel like putting her in victorias secret has kind of debased it because her art is beautiful and the average viewer of victorias secret fashion shows doesnt want to see anything other than the angels in plain clothes that they can see themself wearing and dream to look like that, wether they are plus size or not.

[@naylanassif2997]

This! I've been following her for a while and love her work, but agree that the VS customer isn't really her audience.

[@camirdma]

I honestly see this vision in a more refined fashion show where the focus is artistic rather than commercial, but VS isn’t really that at all

[@cozycrowley]

I think specialty stores have their place and VS has always felt like feels like that since I was a teen.I only have the perspective as a petite woman who has worn an xs/s her whole life so I find myself wishing there were stores in malls that are dedicated to people with my frame but they don’t exist and I doubt they ever will. I feel like a store like that would be shamed for being “only for small people….ooooh so special” When no….I’d just like to find reliable brands without going to a millions stores with a tiny section

[@cozycrowley]

I also saw a TikTok of a woman explaining that XS has gotten bigger over the years and it’s probably because of inclusive sizes. I’ve noticed and it just doesn’t help to just change the tag. I’ve just continued shopping at stores marketed to teens even though it feels weird sometimes…and I’m talking stores that aren’t online only

[@randihage7952]

I think that inclusivity in the fashion industry is wonderful. However, I do wish they could’ve just kept the old aesthetic. I loved the glamorous fashion shows, the big wings, the beautiful makeup looks etc.

[@LoveAndSnapple]

Here's my take and I'm gonig to be totally honest: As a woman who is over 300 pounds, I don't like the plus size inclusivity. I think that people are lying when they say they want plus sized women because when VS offered up these women no one was satisfied. It's because because people really wanted ATTRACTIVE, fat women. It's saying the quiet part out loud that they didn't want to see women with bellies hanging out or have women showing their armpit hair. I feel like many people are just mad that they can't be the object of desire and instead got angry at VS to make the change. And when they got the change silently went, "Ew". Because if the skinny model can have her belly out then why can't the bigger model do the same? If you put these women in the same clothes that the smaller women are in then you'd realize that it doesn't evoke the same, "oooh, semi-naked lady" fantasy. In this new day and age we have to admit that not every brand is fit for inclusivity. Either the same people keep supporting them or they die. Stop buying their patnies, their lotions, their perfumes, their PINK Univeristy sweatpants, their everything. There are way too many inclusive brands who make it a point to be inclusive from the jump and actually showcase different people well than to be scolding an old, tired brand that doesn't care what you think. Stop supporting them and let them scramble to pick up the last of their coins.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

👏 ...THANK YOU!!! 👌 Perfectly said! 🙇 I am NOT being facetious and I hope I do not sound patronizing when I say that I ADMIRE both your sense of personal responsibility, common sense, and willingness and bravery to speak the truth! I do not know how you look like but I DO know you are beautiful on the inside! Let a brand be free to do what they want and let us be free to shop there or not. Arm-twisting someone to satisfy their own ego or fix their insecurities is as silly as it is wrong.

[@djengefrett]

imo the crux of their problem is treating inclusivity and fantasy as opposites. they could have extended their sizes and hired more diverse models while keeping that angel ideal. if they had styled the new models just as glamorously it might have gone smoother.

[@rachaelmow]

as a seamstress i can confirm the plus sized models were fucked over. none of those looks fit correctly.

[@trashcanbanker]

VS is the MOST uncomfortable store for men to be in now 😂

[@pilgrym]

i think it has always been haha

[@oldmama8929]

As a plus size women who sews, I recognise ill-fitting. And these outfits were ill-fitting! All the models were sabotaged by the wardrobe department. Everyone in marketing and design should have lost their jobs over this. If they didn't, then that's proof positive this was intentional.

[@luxt91]

the difference from both shows is very visible, at first the shows were filled with colorful lingerie and bright lights and it looked so fun... and instead of just adding the body positive element into it they changed the whole thing, now the location of the show looks very dark and the lingerie its just pretty much in nude colors. it definitely lost the magic they aimed for one day

[@livlmao508]

idk it doesnt feel like a swing of the pendulum, i think people were more on the line of “why cant women of different body types be sexy/aloof/angels?” not a complete redesign of the branding, its less of a people wanted this and now they want that, and more of a why cant there be both together? kinda thing

[@AvrilFanCarson]

Exactly. There are A LOT of people in the comments basically trying to say you can't be a sexy sophisticated fantasy if you're plus sized though 🙃

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

As someone that works in a sex story, with the models on the box, there's no in between when you're wearing this little of clothes. You're fetishized or you're not attractive to most people...

[@Nishamama]

You summed this up very well. On one hand, you have the old-school Victoria's secret fans who love the fantasy of the perfect and almost unattainable look that the models presented in the early 90's to mid 2000's. Then you have the plus size/all-inclusive fans who just wanted to see plus size models/models that aren't technically considered "attractive" by society's standards included a bit more in Victoria's Secret. I feel both have some valid points. To me, the issue is that Victoria's Secret no longer feels sexy. It used to be, when you went into Victoria's Secret, even if you just brought perfume/body spray, there was still an air/sexy vibe that they gave off, but now it's like they are trying to be something else and it's inauthentic, which is not sensual/sexy. While I don't think every brand has to be inclusive, I feel the issue isn't the models but how they are being presented and how Victoria's Secret has become Fenty/Old Navy in their lingerie looks. You can do sexy and plus size(Believe there are gorgeous models who could have pulled it off) but it's like Victoria's secret feels like you have to pick with either delivering "sex-appeal" or being "inclusive". You can do both, but I honestly feel like Victoria's Secret should either go back to their old audience or truly get on board and give sexiness on all levels in order to continue with their business.

[@RoKer13]

All they had to do was what they’ve been doing and add actual diverse models to the fashion show. It seems like they’re embarrassed to show more diverse bodies and if they do, then they make them look bad. So they’re still making the “typical” model look better than other body types. And it’s also not helping that being skinny is in again… like people are removing their buccal fat and their ribs to look skinny wtf

[@kkswider899]

Well you can allays get on Oprah diet!

[@berenikawodarczyk2189]

I always thought that in such a competitive industry with thousands of beautiful women, there has to be something that differentiates the models from women who just didn't make it. The discipline to starve was what differed the viewer from the models walking the runway, their confidence and effortlessness was what made the customers buy VS products. The staff of VS knew what they were doing, as any major company they were selling feelings. Now they stopped selling confident Angels being the definition of beauty standards. With the production of Angels, they knew what they were doing but now? They kinda had to jump on the trend to not get canceled by the media so they did what everyone did, that's why i think the VS lost is authenticity and originality

[@kc8818]

The damage is already done. My friends and I who all tried to look like Victoria’s Secret models are grown up now but with the same body and eating issues that we got from that era

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

What about the eating problems from this era? Half the people in America are overweight, vs 10% being anorexic underweight... Kids are getting their teeth painfully removed now more than ever.

[@Vex_TheJester]

​@@antithoughtpolice7497 eating less is worse than eating more, especially for a developing child

[@winxclubstellamusa]

Walking is the easiest, healthiest, and most effective way to get skinny! You don’t have to starve yourself!!!

[@winxclubstellamusa]

@@Vex_TheJester no, both are just as dangerous.

[@Vex_TheJester]

@@winxclubstellamusa that is just plain wrong

[@jacintaquee]

so the model you put a picture up of where you said “yeah actually i take it back bc wtf is this” is the designer michaela starke. she specialises in corsetry but she does it in ways that mess with a obscure the human form. it’s an exploration of what the human body can look like. i do agree it’s not victoria secret but from a fashion exploration lense she does some really cool stuff! edit: basically she put the outfit on herself. it’s not that victoria secret was trying to squeeze plus size models into clothes that are too small for them - it was a choice of designer that the general public does not know/understand

[@TreyAri]

I don't think VS are doing it on purpose, really, "sabotaging models" etc. I think the main issue is that all those newly hired young employees(who are responsible for PR and brand image) are genuinely certain they're doing a good job. That's all.

[@rara9770]

The inclusivity movement really doesn't care about petite sizes 🤷‍♀️

[@adamssmasher]

i'm in eu and have to order from asian countries for my size 💀💀💀

[@merlene9876]

I'm so glad someone brought this up! I often have to buy kids clothing even though I'm a mature woman. I know there are a lot of short women out there who want to be stylish. I'm 5'0", size 2 petite, and if anyone has suggestions for places to shop, I'd love to hear them!

[@aquaAffinity2]

@@merlene9876hey, I’m an inch shorter than you and have the same issues lol, I pretty much just shop at Gap and Old Navy for tops and American Eagle or Banana Republic for bottoms. If you’re into athletic wear then Nike’s extra small hoodies fit me pretty well. Also Uniqlo has up to XXS but depending on the cut of the shirt it may or may not fit well so I like to try their stuff on in store.

[@rara9770]

​@@adamssmasherDo you have recommendations? I like Dazy from Shein but most stuff is made of polyester. 😢

[@rara9770]

@@cloudtree02 I swear sizes are getting larger. I used to find basics at H&M but not anymore.

[@anhdang8383]

because in a imaginary world, where every single person was over 5’10, beautiful with good proportions, it would no longer be a fantasy is it?

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

19:25 the thing I always loved about VS and their ads etc was just how amazing and creative the pieces were and their actual products were always beautiful, creative, yet functional

[@Telltalesign]

I remember them making a chocolate bra before and made someone walk the runway wearing that chocolate bra. I feel like that was years ago and I can’t really remember if it is them or not. But I’m pretty sure it was VS. 🍫🍫

[@tylerhackner9731]

They got a weird legacy anyway

[@renatafelix8715]

Hi, Marketeer here! The reason why people seem ''surprised'' is not really because it's trendy to be inclusive but more so because the inclusivity that VS is forcing in this new documentary is forced and we can all see that. In Marketing, one of the things we are seeing more and more every day is that consumer behavior is changing and people actually want brands to be genuine and true to their DNA and this is one of the reasons why we can clearly see through the bullshit that VS did with this campaign. This campaign does not, in any way, align with the values and ideals that the brand has been loudly promoting through the years! As a generation and as consumers we are more aware of what is real and what is fabricated to generate more sales and I think that is a beautiful thing. Sorry for the long boring comment but this is something that really fascinates me because this is a real-life example of how important it is for brands to position themselves and to read the room

[@ping4d064]

the comments saying “the clothes look bad” really get me, cause as we can see by the runway clips in the video, the clothes were always horrible, they just looked better cause the best models in the world were wearing them😭

[@SlapSister]

Give your money to brands who have ALWAYS been supportive of women. VS has always been POSIONOUS to women.

[@punkcakex]

You are so beautiful, love the no makeup look! Thanks the video, it's gonna be evolving or die for VS x

[@lilyjanesmith]

the solution is literally just to bring back the fun, sexy fashion show but just have people with different bodies and more diversity like the vibes are what I miss I don't give a shit about "unattainable beauty" like I just want to see hot girls walk around in underwear

[@christinez.1454]

LITERALLY my first thought watching this video was about how freaking beautiful you were and that beauty is WITHOUT make up and then you mentioned it and I was blown away by the coincidence of you actually saying something about the no make up and my first line of thinking was appreciating your natural beauty. I had to comment about it.

[@alisons6191]

I understand that beauty is subjective. But there is no denying that some people are just more conventionally attractive than others. A company should be able to choose who they want to model their stuff. The problem isn’t the models it’s us idolizing them and comparing ourselves to them .

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Yeah, nothing is stopping the whiners from starting their own lingerie company with whatever size models they want too.

[@hadrianhexe9603]

Which seems easier, deprograming a whole society....or changing one of the things that cause/reinforce the issue in the first place

[@starstorm1267]

What people find to be more coventionally attractive can vary depending on someone’s personal preferences and what the beauty standards of that era are, which in turn makes beauty subjective. What we find to be attractive now probably wasn’t seen as attractive hundreds of years ago and possibly into the future as well.

[@sm1purplmurderedme583]

bruh? if they’re seen as conventionally attractive ppl are inevitably gonna compare themselves to them wdum???😭😭

[@idkkkk7588]

It just doesn't feel genuine. And I think that's the main problem with diversity being a trend.

[@MorganVsTheInternet]

Savage x Fenty does glimmer while being inclusive! Victoria's Secret made this horrible ‘show’ on purpose because they didn't want to be inclusive!

[@Ykoz2016]

It’s so interesting to me that people keep using the phrase “fantasy”. Or an “unattainable fantasy” when talking about VS. I mean, let’s break this down. What is VS? It’s a company that sells products to consumers. What products? Primarily underwear but also by extension clothes, perfume etc. To who? To women. (Even if it originally sold to men which, let’s face it, is the root of the issues). So logically the fantasy should be the PRODUCTS. You should dream of owning the things themselves and how those things make you look/ feel. Originally in the 80s/ 90s they made you feel pretty and wealthy. Later, in the 2000s trendy and fun. The fantasy should be looking elegant or cool. But not “thin”. Thin should be a fantasy for diet pills. VS Underwear won’t make you thin, won’t make you look or feel thin, so the “fantasy” shouldn’t be “unobtainable thinness”. At some point VS became more about the models then the clothes and this rebrand isn’t changing it. At it’s best VS was about DECORATION. About decorating your body. So they need to stop obsessing over which bodies they decorate and get down to actually decorating. Then just include everyone when you do and that’s IT. Don’t make your whole show about being thin. And don’t make your whole show about not being thin. Move on for FS and make pretty or interesting bras in lots of sizes and get over yourselves. Jesus. 🤦‍♀️

[@sarahwatts7152]

I went into their stores a couple of times and didn't buy anything, the vibes were weird as hell

[@mkat4271]

Your insecurities are not someone's vibes.

[@kkswider899]

Or you are too fat for beautiful outfits? Or too expensive

[@TempestPhaedra]

yeah same I've gone in a few times thinking I'd give a shot to buying some nice underwear as a treat, but everything looks tacky to me so I just leave. I'm definitely not into lingerie

[@Theauntygollum]

17:53 I’m really bothered by THIS image in particular being the scapegoat for peoples dissatisfaction with the show overall. I’ve been following the artist pictured for some time and her style and aesthetic is very vocally meant to involve squeezing and bulging as a commentary on standardised body image, and finding beauty in the almost liquid quality of body fat. I, for the most part, agree that the show was subpar, but the misinterpretation, wilful or otherwise, of this new definition of sensuality and beauty being the beacon of ‘badness’ irks me to no end….

[@umdonttalktome]

Girl when u said u weren’t wearing makeup I was acc shook cause for the entire video I was literally thinking about how gorg u were 😭❤️

[@luisabolado]

dont get me wrong, the brand def is shady and has always been, but i think people are the problem too! give them the unattainable and they say its not realistic and promotes toxic beauty standards (which is true) but when the brand (even though done wrong) becomes more “inclusive” and takes away those standards and delivers something “realistic” people get mad too, saying now that they liked the unattainable. like grl make up your mind like it or dont but dont switch up lol edit: haha hadnt gotten to the point where madisyn kinda said that but still

[@LS2165]

You're naturally glowing. Get it, girl.

[@margarida.larchae]

am i the only one that finds the 17:50 photo beautiful? am i hallucinating? bc i don't find it nowhere as hedious as ppl are making it out to be wtf

[@pollysshore2539]

Savage x Fenty shows are amazing. It’s who the brand is and you know it. Being authentic is always going to be better than being trendy. Personally I’ve always appreciated the Savage X Fentys of the world. There might be fewer of them but we’re better off with that than several brands going through the motions without understanding it.

[@sm1purplmurderedme583]

rhianna is amazing ❤

[@yikes268]

Your skin is looking flawless right now! You are gorgeous both with and without makeup! Thanks for another great video.

[@LuxeLuminaSoaps]

15:57 Its literally forced. People threaten your business unless you toe the line and act shocked when it feels forced. It is.

[@ch0c0late_ch1ps]

Girl you look stunning 🤩 It’s so nice to see people online without pounds of makeup.

[@Theescapist_87]

I'm chunky and working to lose weight because being obese is neither cute nor healthy long term. Diabetes ain't cute and has killed two of my grandparents before the age of 60 and is currently killing my dad. I'm not about to be another statistic. I don't think VS needs to bring back the anorexic aesthetic, but we as a society shouldnt be pushing lethal body types as sexy either.

[@tamiwithani]

My take is, not everything needs to be for everybody. Like you said, some things sell a fantasy. Victoria secret represented a specific woman who many of us, thin or plus size, can never achieve, but we still buy because it gives us a chance to engage in that type of image. I want to wear my panties and feel bougie.

[@mariejosefinacastillo9385]

GIRL you ARE beautiful with or without makeup 🥰🥰 also you're my go-to video-essayist(???) nowadays. Both insightful, informative, and extremely entertaining! Amazing work always ☺️

[@astara3770]

Victorias secret is truly an intresting one I think when it started out costumers came for the beauty of the girls but stayed for the pink and sparkles they can't seem to get their models right but as a girly girl they really slayed the glamour of the hot pink aesthetic

[@tenebae1999]

Yeah as someone who looks at fashion and am looking towards a fashion career, I definitely see the issues on the fit of the clothes being off like some of the models bodies were literally visibly being constricted by the clothes because they weren't the right size or fit and bigger bodies need different proportions when it comes to clothes and it's obvious that these designers didn't care to research that or study those things and it's just really sad to see

[@Sparkly_Pink_Princess]

I am 5ft tall and about 125 lbs, my breasts are and have always been on the larger side, being 32-34 double Ds. And I say all of this because I don’t consider myself to be plus size, yes I have never been able to fit Victoria secrets bras. From a teenager, I have always obviously been drawn to the store, because of all the pretty matching sets. Everyone love Victoria Secret. But time and time again, I have gone in there and have only left with utter shame about my own body. To call Victoria secret “inclusive” is literally an oxymoron, even now with this “change”. It was only a couple years ago I learned it was created by a man, and suddenly it all made sense for me. I am obviously in a place now where I can confidently say I love my body. I am beautiful and curvy and I love that. But I fear for teenagers that are going to be just like I once was. I felt it was my fault. And I say I don’t consider myself plus size because it just goes to show that Victoria Secret will always cater to the itty bitty titty community, who also happen to be on the thinner side. There’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s how most stores are. So it’s like where is the “inclusive”. I haven’t shopped there in years and will probably continue that. Fenty and adore me and small businesses on Etsy have done such a great job at being inclusive, the real kind. You can get glamoured and matching sets while feeling good and sexy about yourself.

[@GlamTravelLife]

I might be crazy, but I've always seen 32, 34, and 36 DD bra's in my Victoria's Secret...maybe your store is just limited

[@Sparkly_Pink_Princess]

@@GlamTravelLife You’re not crazy, they do sell those there. But like I said, they’ve never fit. That’s why I always felt like it was my fault because “it was my size”, but it never fit, it was always incredibly to small. And a worker there measured me, telling me that was my size. And that’s my size in all other bras too.

[@joo5972]

The people complaining in the comments about brands using bigger models and how it “supports obesity” are just downright stupid. Adding more sizes and including sizes for ladies that are bigger chested or ladies that are just heavier set in general is not promoting or telling people to become overweight. They are simply producing a wider range of sizes for people that are already built that way. Showing models with a bit of pudge is not harming anyone. It’s showing that there are real women that look like that.

[@matchaheart3340]

I feel like most everyone ignores that Michaela Stark is FAMOUS for her body altering and non conventional looks- she makes corsets and such meant to make bulges and asymmetrical lines. NOW, why did VS choose her and this approach?? I’m not sure, it’s such a departure and their fan base isn’t going to “get it”. This all the “it didn’t even fit well” comments. The artist did that intentionally. I personally loved it- bc I love Starks work and have followed her for years. But, the lack of properly setting expectations and explains her work left everyone angry at an intentional show

[@lonelybaguette]

i miss the old vs shows they were iconic

[@AvrilFanCarson]

Then rewatch them lol

[@bavv7056]

@@AvrilFanCarsonwhy so snarky ur prolly plus size 😂

[@CarlosG96]

I think this year collection wasn’t that bad, VS was inclusive. I just feel like plus size models hasn’t been exposed in this kind of way. Showing belly and rolls and showing hairy armpits because women have been conditioned, as little girls too look a certain way and then too appeal to the male gaze. And unfortunately VS has appealed to a certain beauty standard/ male gaze. And for them to do something so left field it left a lot of people uncomfortable.

[@cocolove9916]

taking care of ourselves don't mean we are trying to appeal to the male gaze... whats wrong with shaving yor armpits? not everyone wants to see that stuff presentation is everything at the end of the day rather you like it or not.

[@bece00]

​@cocolove9916 not shaving your armpits isn't not taking care of yourself. This is part of the issue.

[@cocolove9916]

@@bece00 it’s basic hygiene that almost everyone does. doesn’t mean they are trying to cater to the male gaze you guys want inclusivity but not everyone wants to see that crap that’s what I’m trying to say, now Victoria’s Secret has to start pushing This fake woke agenda and nobody likes it, I don’t know how you guys expect the show to look after begging for inclusivity …nonsense.

[@trashfashiondotcom]

@@cocolove9916there’s nothing wrong with shaving armpits but there’s really no reason for you to do it unless you have sensitivity/sensory issues OR to appeal to men edit: also the only reason why you think it’s basic hygiene and unpresentable is because women have been conditioned to think so by men.

[@RoKer13]

To be honest, all these fashion shows are just one long commercial for their products and then they get someone to perform a concert, like a kind of feminine type version of the Super Bowl. People of different body types can look beautiful but VS is making them look ugly or fetishizing the “untypical” model body type. They can do what they’ve been doing in a better way. But they don’t want to be inclusive, they’ve tried the bare minimum and failed at that.

[@happynealltdpolly]

The “wtf is this” girl at 17:23 is actually a british fashion designer Michaela Stark, who created several looks for the latest VS campaign and she’s working in that specific technic of unusual draping of the fabric around plus size bodies like hers for several years now and became known for it, i like her works.

[@killaemy]

I like her too, I'm amused by the reactions because it's exactly the point of her work

[@sherryl2178]

The work is ugly

[@yuckyfairy]

the comment i was looking for.. “who put her in this” - her. she dressed herself.. the point ➡️🪟

[@Minamibam]

This is the first video I watched from you I did not even think about whether you wear make up or not just thought you had a chilling vibe and are absolutely beautiful :)

[@lotte7695]

girl you are so gorgeous w/o makeup it's actually crazy like WHAT is your skincare routine??

[@georginasparks6867]

Idc if they’re cancelled or not, their underwear, bags, loungewear and pajamas still slap.

[@mishrawal8571]

there is no in between anymore! unhealthy, overweight (like bad for your health overweight) people are being lied to about it being ok, but then slim models have to still go above and beyond to be skinny and ‘attractive. will there ever be a point where healthy is attractive? we lie to fat people and say it’s ok you’re fine, but someone is healyhy and has a bit of tummy and suddenly it’s ugly and gross

[@colalime2006]

imo I think VS should stick to the ultra thin skinny models. They worked hard for the body they have. Just like body builders work hard to get into competitions and stuff, so should VS models. I doesn’t seem fair that their just letting anybody model when they haven’t put an ounce of work into their appearance. Just a thought tho lol

[@c45177]

That’s not always true. Some people are born ultra skinny. It’s also unfair to assume people with bigger bodies don’t also work hard for their bodies.

[@uptowngirlup3191]

I’m tired of companies within the entertainment and fashion industry forcing “woke” nature within a demonic stature. I completely skipped the whole Doja Cat section for obvious reasons. The thing about “plus size” people or “body positivity” is that all they are saying is that their worth is not completely on their weight. They are saying don’t judge them for being fat not, that being fat is healthy. Even some people who know that they are obese know that their weight is damaging to their health but they don’t try to push others to be ok with being overweight as well. When it comes to forcing diversity now a days it’s forced and the audience can tell.

[@VNa-l5l]

I feel like the main problem here is "are they pretty clothes or us she just skinny?"

[@beatemuller3690]

I never understood people’s desire to see average looking people in a fashion show. Just like I don’t want to go to a concert and see people with average singing skills or to a sports event and watch people with average athletic skills. Models used to be famous because their beauty was unattainable to the average person, just like the skills of famous athletes and musicians are unattainable for most of us. If that creates insecurities that’s a personal problem, but let’s not dumb everything down so everyone feels included

[@hopefullycosplay]

The fact that you're conflating size and beauty is exactly the problem and why we need more diversity in fashion/modeling. Nobody said they want "average looking people" just more diverse people. There are plenty of stunningly gorgeous people who are not 5'10" blonde-hair blue-eye DDs.

[@beatemuller3690]

@ they had enough diversity in hair and skin colors. They didn’t need it in body type.