Why Firestaff is OP | Technical Analysis

[@streetbeef5187]

Played firestaff for the first time yesterday after not having touched it for 5 months. Last months Ive been playing main dmg BB and the firestaff damage and potential is just another world. Burst on the firestaff is better because I can land it more reliably, cooldowns are shorter, range is better, aoe is better, autos are better, the dots, alacritous punishment. With firestaff I can run more con than I do with a BB and still do better damage. Insanely OP weapon. Btw, for OPR gameplay, do you think natures wrath is better than running mortal empowerment ring and battlebread?

[@windy653]

This man is working for AGS for free. @AGS

[@amurika6336]

I bet AGS is learning from this guy

[@ArchidamusNW]

Great job here, thanks for your community work.

[@gasoline9456]

Another description that's just plain wrong. "expires 200% faster" would mean Empower runs out 200% faster i.e. 3 times as fast so the duration would be 1/3 when the actual effect is just -200% duration

[@bellgrand]

Yeah, it should say "expire instantly" instead.

[@gasoline9456]

@@bellgrand That would be confusing too because it leaves open wether it's just 100% and you can extend it with consumable bag perk or empowered on amulet, should just say duration reduced by 200%

[@Ravynheart]

Expires 200% faster = -200% duration ...does it not? Sounds the same to me. And they used -200% so that anything that extends your empower also gets negated

[@valiant719]

Thanks Steve.

[@TriggerZz]

you cant use melee pots tho?

[@michaelhough8239]

How does this effect how fast they are dumping their abilities lately? The speed of their attacks has increased. It’s like the blunderbuss used to be with dumping abilities for one shotting.

[@docko23]

they changed something with dodges so you can dodge cancel abilities insanely fast now. it feels incredibly smooth / fast to cancel with fs

[@mecr0w]

Its has a higher attack speed, abilities are easier to hit than in the past, and dmg has increased yes

[@planetg2125]

They just need to make FS have a higher skill ceiling to land skills, then it's viable in PvE where movement is minimal and hard to land in PvP where it's easier to telegraph or dodge

[@mrbicboi2540]

Yeah 💯, increase cast time of pillar and decrease hit box. Decrease hit box of fireball. Increase cooldowns slightly.

[@MrJar1rad]

What happens when you hit the cap

[@mecr0w]

No more dmg

[@MrJar1rad]

@@mecr0w does the cap take a all empower when you hit it....or does it max at 50% empower

[@amka406]

the inherent problem is the lack of tools for melees in general. the existing ones are just useless due to internal cooldown and lower multiplier.

[@LilAlbus]

I really like natures wrath this patch has been really fun and I hope they don't gut it. It feels like new world did before the expansion again where everything is getting one shot, not just by firestaffs but muskets and boltcasters have crazy natures wrath builds. There are melee elemental weapons that I think where also meant to benefit from nature's wrath like the lightning hammer and abyss. The system works really well so I don't think nerfing elemental runeglass is the play. Maybe nature's wrath needs a very slight base damage reduction or another scaling needs to be tuned, but from a design perspective natures wrath builds are interesting and cool.

[@LilAlbus]

PS when you go natures wrath light you're full glass cannon so there's a tradeoff. I think its much more interesting than featherweight and I hope it's still the strongest option.

[@luzbrother]

firestaff is op since the rework and every good players know this. its disgusting that they keep this up for so long... just wild. i would like to play my old rapier build with FS but it is such a shame to even show up with this shit. pls nerf this weapon so ppl can use it with skill and without shame.

[@MrJar1rad]

Does this still work good with fire staff?

[@mecr0w]

Yes but nerfed on beta build

[@urthlmno]

Little late to the video, but following concerns with Melee harnessing and FS/NW nerfs: Melee harnessing seems odd to not have, agree, but there's also no direct mitigation perk either - there is no Slash harness, but there's also no Melee Aversion. There are Conditionings for specific types yes, but Elemental has those also. If Melee/Phys harnessing is introduced that seems fine so long as an equivalent defensive perk is also introduced. FS/NW is a harder spot because while it's definitely an overperformer, we are also still in a Spear (and to lesser extent SNS) meta, not a FS Meta. There are some forthcoming Spear stamina nerfs sure, but as long as the king of the hill is pointy sticks, shield slams, and lifestaffs, it feels good to have something capable of acting as a natural predator to some of those functions, even if the predator itself is overtuned. Addressing FS before the things FS is helping mitigate feels like putting the nerf cart before the balance horse. If we can open up the melee front a little more I think FS would be the next on the list of things to address - but it does feel like it should be NEXT on the list at the moment. Not at the top of it. Lastly FS feels like a good amount of its viability and prominence is just that it actually feels good to use. As a longtime Bow player, the movement improvements feel like one of the biggest "nerfs" or sudden difficulty increases to my weapon. Everyone is suddenly much better at mobility but I'm still shooting the same arrows (not counting the bug where they rocket off at a 90* angle into Narnia). FS on the other hand feels very GOOD to use - if I aim at something and generally time my projectiles right, I score hits more often than not. In this way FS feels like it "pays off" more for less work than something like Bow, with Musket somewhere in the middle, but from a user experience standpoint I feel like FS is much closer to correct than Bow. FS and elemental ranged weapons just feel good to use while other ranged weaponry is very (literally) hit or miss, but I think nerfing FS in ways pertaining to this is the wrong direction, which makes it hard to address on that front from a "changing something about FS" plan of attack.

[@sheeeeeeeesh9162]

The detriment of using Nature's Wrath is not using Featherweight :p

[@mecr0w]

True lol

[@r3load403]

Jasper > Conversion Gem on Spear in your opinion? Since lots of your Spear targets will play 2-3x Thrust Conditioning + a shit ton uf thrust portection in general

[@mecr0w]

I think so since if you do conversation your att perks are also only 1/2 as good

[@r3load403]

@@mecr0w just read the tooltip of jasper again...that shit does really sound scary for melee dex since u take or block damage basically 24/7

[@RemusSimon]

You can though add a conversion rock on each melee weapon and profit from the harnessing; what about adding thrust dmg to a FS? It kind of goes both ways.

[@Einared]

Rather than nerfing fire harn/gems they should add thrust/slash/strike harnessing and empower gems. Bow is so broken (in a bad way) that fs is missing it's biggest rival atm. Bow is prolly hurt most by projectiles shooting off from their supposed pattern+ roa, pene shot, poison shot can make all your skills brake+ bow is prolly tuned by accounting all the cancel animation bugs so it's gonna be in even worse spot soon

[@Einared]

Oh and they should buff all melee weapon tracking to spear / sns lvl and we gucci

[@TheHollowGloom]

I would rather just see all ranged toned down a little bit, my OPR experience last night playing 350 con bruiser with Ele aversion getting hit by a boltcaster for 4.5k and mitigating 4.5k, a few FS raining down fire on me, and the musket 5 man just terrorizing everyone on my team, OPR has been ranged favored for so long, its the only Q'able PvP mode that is worth a damn Q'ing and its turning back into a 3rd person shooter, range can output so much damage for free at times so easily its ridiculous. No wonder we have games with 10+ range on a team even more frequently now with all the muskets popping back up, a few FS and Bows as always in each game.

[@MrDerly]

map design also favors ranged heavily in OPR. not really much cover when going from point to point

[@mecr0w]

I think if there was more cover this would be less of an issue but considering ags is not working on a new opr map and it takes so long to get out of combat to get on mounts range have a major advantage still

[@MrDerly]

@@mecr0w totally fair. From a war perspective - do you feel like it more or less than OPR/open world?

[@Artanthos]

I'm usually a strong FS advocate, but I will concede it feels a bit overtuned right now. I hope AGS doesn't just gut it. Nature's Wrath really does make it go Brrr right now and so I hope they go in the direction of addressing that instead of just crippling the whole weapon. And yes, we do have the option of using ignited/fireharnessing but flame pots exist. They last insanely long with lasting consumption, and there isn't a consume like that for thrust/slash/strike dam (yes I know conditionings exist, but there is flame conditioning too!)

[@mecr0w]

Flame conditioning doesn’t naturally roll on armor so it’s less common but yea I agree

[@ifreshplays]

okay so a 400 INT FS presumably using 100-150 CON assuming they put 25 into FOC, is doing "slightly" more DMG then a Class that is 350 CON and only slotting 250 DMG STATS, the math aint mathing. Sacrificing low CON for more DMG yet still only "slightly'" more DMG. what is wrong here genuinely?

[@mecr0w]

FS has more dmg w aoes than the strongest st oriented melee build. Class has less risk and more of a reward when the st weapon should deal more dmg than the aoe weapon.

[@ifreshplays]

​@@mecr0w exactly its a melee build let alone using 350 CON why try and "Compete" with a class thats is 400 DMG stats that jus doest make sense to me, do you want them to have the same DMG and Same Risks?

[@Mewziqal]

Empowering Proximity is also currently bugged at the moment and is often not working at all

[@mecr0w]

It got fixed a few days ago

[@Mewziqal]

@@mecr0w Pretty sure it's still broken. I know a couple people that just tested it this past weekend and it was still not functioning. Also there was nothing in the patch notes about fixing it.

[@dmac3093]

I’ve been saying that forever. They need slash, thrust and strike harnessing.

[@fonzareli9619]

whats a good fire staff

[@mecr0w]

The PvP track one

[@newbishere1351]

The devs were warned about natures wrath and they said they don’t think it’s overpowered or whatever and will be leaving it as is…. That said natures wrath and runeglass, and harnessing gems aren’t exclusive to the firestaff, any weapon and use them. Firestaff just benifits the most from them when paired with natures wrath. That’s not firestaff fault, but lack of brain power from AGS.

[@Rickiwot]

Devs are fire staff andies they've thought it was fine even before natures wrath, FS needs to lose at least 40-50% base damage and it will be balanced

[@newbishere1351]

@@Rickiwot firestaff damage is lower than musket and bows. People seem to forget that firestaff was basically the worst weapon in the game for almost 2 years straight and has only been top tier for the last 8-10months. Firestaff is easier to play against than both bow and musket since its animations are slow and telegraphed( except pillar) and also easier to punish since their range is much shorter and they are forced to play closer. This video basically has nothing to do with the actual firestaff weapon as to why it’s “strong” and had outside factors that any weapon can also use, and to nerf firestaff because of added power creep outside the weapon tree is bogus. Firestaff has a higher base damage than other weapons is the only thing he said that is firestaff specifically. But idk if I believe that, firestaff will have the lowest damage at 350 of its attribute respectively compared to the bow and musket and even melee weapons . Idk how that equates to base damage but its damage is objectively lower than musket and bow on a single target. Firestaff is just a aoe damage weapon and it’s good at it. It’s also a cool weapon and fun to use. AGS can make changes to make the weapon harder to use and more skill based, but that isn’t their mo, they have been dumbing the game down across the board.

[@BeeBopGaming]

Taking notes 🗒️ 👀

[@LimitlessHype-hy7qj]

gotta get those dev contacts of yours to add custom company vs company wars not tied to territory to the game lol.

[@knockoff5924]

I figured you would go into the actual damage values with a technical analysis. This is a pretty basic analysis and most firestaves planned to run this before s5 dropped because of the base empower stacks. Pest and finisher boosts take this damage to another level on this build. Another thing that makes it very strong is the fluidity of the animations that allow insane burst. When I play light ig vg, there's delays on vg skills. They almost never proc the first input(other than scream). The ig takes 3 inputs to cast a skill. Skills go on cooldown with no effect. The firestaff is incredibly snappy and consistent right now which is giving users an advantage with more actions per second and makes it satisfying to play. Is FS hitting higher than than the musket and bow? I don't think so, but I don't know the actual values. When are we gonna get the sns or spear is op video? Sns has been included in every broken/most used build build since before brimstone. Sns/bb, sns/hatchet, sns/gs, and now sns/spear. Sns is essentially the equivalent of the OP shotgun that call of duty includes in every game to keep the noobs playing. We've had these dudes left clicking with magnet tracking that slows on hit for 2 years. Then you've got spear being the most used pvp weapon and pve weapon. Time will tell if FS ever becomes used as much as sns or spear. I'm guessing it won't for the same reason it never does. The alternatives are still better.

[@daederath]

you gotta be delusional if you think fs isnt hitting higher than bow or musket,musket at least needs to go very low con where as FS deals high damage with a 150-200 con. Thinking fs alternatives are still better is most delusional thing fs biased players can say as well when FS is most meta weapon atm

[@mecr0w]

I’ve made like 3-4 vids pertaining to that and w nerfs on the horizon there is no need imo

[@Rickiwot]

FS is completely busted and easily the lowest skill floor weapon for anything ranged, FS is always in any war or OPR topping damage and even kills 99% of the time and can just kite most melee players , sns/spear is more or less the only melee catching them if they don't know to be evasive with it and kite, you won't see any bruiser trying to hunt a FS down unless they're stupid and aren't paying attention as FS even with mitigations galore on its elemental and specific fire damage will just melt them if they're just paying attention.

[@Rickiwot]

Sns spear is also broken but only a broken class can hunt another broken class

[@fosteredlol]

As a light-hunting skitzo and KS DPS disrupter, they feel pretty fine to me imho. Light Nature's Wrath with harnessing and runglass is basically the squishiest build you can make in the game that isn't 5con musket. Losing out on Frigid Dawn and extra armor from Featherweight Light, losing out on some absorption from armor runeglass, and losing out on 5x defensive perks for harnessing. They have to play closer than an equally squishy musket or bow and fold extremely quickly when you run into them with with a mobile melee dps build like sns/anything or hatchet/anything. Also they're at risk of being blown up by another fs, bow, or musket. They do do a lot of damage if left uncontested and allowed to free-cast, which they should, being a pure-dps 'class' with no util, but can be strongly countered by several builds. Heavy FS was way more toxic, and Featherweight FS is harder to deal with.

[@mecr0w]

Ye it’s arguably that the problem is a problem w map geometry and a lack of cover in pvp modes too

[@MrDerly]

said it better than i could

[@theScary92]

I hate being mage since day1, gief back old days when there were 10firestaffs on full servers and no slot for them in war :D

[@tc-one3749]

Was the same with bows xD

[@josesemino8284]

It's op in your server not on mine everyone us running an amulet with flame protection and ruby gems in all their armor and jewelry

[@mecr0w]

Doesn’t that reinforce that it’s op if everyone has to specifically gem against it?

[@turbitoescort7460]

For this i use full ice damage and ig artifact,or you chamge for other elemental damage and rapier

[@MrDerly]

You mentioned it as well, but people seem to not address that runeglass buffs damage at the cost of defense/resistances. Also, if you run 5 harnessing on a FS, that's 5 defensive perks you cannot run. Yes, the damage is high. But that's the point. High damage, low defense. Aka glass cannon. Other weapon builds can choose to run runeglasses, or spec into elemental damage conversion and get some of these benefits, but they're sacrifice defensive perks then too, which goes against that the build is there for. I'm a FS player. I have enjoyed using Nature's Wrath. Yes, it is strong. There are other strong builds too. If FS gets nerfed, more people will just play bow/musket. Bow/musket also hit hard. People will then complain about those weapons. Then those get nerfed, then what? If we just want massive melee brawls with no range damage, there's Chivalry 2. FS is the only weapon in the game that can do substantial AOE and single target damage consistently, and from relative safety. Bow applies to this a little bit. IG cannot do reliable single target burst damage (spike just isn't there), and VG is more or less a debuff/utility weapon. Musket is almost pure single target. I'd love it if AGS added more ranged weapons in the game to compete with FS for that spot. OR weapons that could be paired with melee to make it a hybrid build. What was the war meta like when FS was nerfed hard like a year or 2 ago?

[@daederath]

thats the point,if fs wants to remain as an AoE high damage weapon they need to nerf the single ability damage of it so it wont compete with single target ranged weapons. Currently FS does AoE and Single target better than bow and musket while having 150-200 con. Also abilities shouldnt be that fast,it needs a reaction time.

[@x_x714]

cope

[@MrDerly]

@@daederath I mean the only "fast" ability is pillar. FB is fairly easy to dodge unless you're right on top of someone. Meteor is pretty easily telegraphed. Nobody uses incinerate lol and burnout is also fairly easy to dodge. FT isn't used a ton anymore anyway. But I get it. Abilities that are somewhat AOE still hit hard on single target. Pillar/FB are technically (technically) AOE but really used as single target more often than not. Would reducing the damage on single targets, but scaling it for # of enemies hit be a fair compromise?

[@MrDerly]

@@x_x714 not really sure who that's directed towards, or what your intention is. Feel free to expand on that if you'd like

[@MASTERVAVI]

​@@MrDerlybro so fs doesn't need a nerf? Yes or no answer

[@MASTERVAVI]

Nature's Wrath is fine. FS needs a merf because its been op forever. It only dropped a bit in players using it a while ago because everyone was tired of using the same thing

[@mecr0w]

I agree it’s just people are finally paying attention to empower because of nature’s wrath more so, but I know some people think the artifact is op

[@ericacek]

This is funny coming from medium/heavy armor shrieking heals/life steal abusing tanks who can cc all day, are way too mobile and at the same time do 80% of the damage the fire staff does.......... stop crying lamoes. While firestaff guy dies from 2 musket shots................ get a life

[@sulfurrr2117]

They need to nerf natures wrath

[@JamyFowl0001]

They should just nerf FS base dmg and slow it's animations.

[@benjaminwhite6452]

You don't see IG/VG popping cause of Natures Wrath, it's literally just a FS issue because of its conditional rather than timed Empowers. Nerf FS, Natures Wrath is then still strong for other non-timed empower-based weapons.

[@Rickiwot]

FS is and has always been an issue but they never want to nerf it, bunch of the Devs run FS which is why 5 seasons in it is still OP and broken and still not nerfing it

[@sulfurrr2117]

@@benjaminwhite6452 I can agree w that

[@Rickiwot]

NERF FS ALREADY AGS ITS TELLING HOW MUCH WE HAVE TO BASE OUR MITIGATION OF DAMAGE OFF OF FS BEING SOO BROKEN

[@fatjay9402]

Fake Propaganda from Melee players .. FS is fine

[@mecr0w]

😟

[@fatjay9402]

@@mecr0w 🤣

[@Rickiwot]

FS was plaguing the game in all respects before Natures wrath, now it's even worse as it's aoe damage but the damage is doing like a single target large damage but in aoe, it needs a severe nerf and has for a long time.

[@fatjay9402]

@@Rickiwot I bet you play Spear SNS :P

[@daederath]

@@fatjay9402 classic delusional firestaff player never admits their weapon broken but constantly talks about other weapons

[@allprogrows358]

Firestaff tops the scoreboard because they sit back way out of danger and pad stats. Trust me, I used to main that boring ass weapon.