Why Formula 1 Uses DOUBLE WISHBONE Suspension

[@hexgraphica]

In case one breaks

[@NateDates]

​@@bdc96 Give it a day or two, he didnt get same day delivery so the joke will come to him soon enough.

[@nuclearmedicineman6270]

@@NateDates Should have paid for express delivery. Worth it.

[@jstewlly4747]

Yeah tell that to Damon Hill in 94 Australia..........if ya know ya know

[@amirnaim3675]

If one breaks, you make a wish

[@lunaticgamer75]

You can always rely on your fellow opponents to help your turn without braking, iykyk

[@benbunch4159]

Confirmed, my Miata is basically an F1 car.

[@chisquare5701]

I have a Miata, so my bias confirms this.

[@wonjoomin]

I was looking for this comment 😂

[@OMG_No_Way]

😂😂

[@dan1906]

I owned a Miata. Wonderful car in it's class. 'Same as an F1 car' never came to mind as I drove the little-car-that-could. We apparently view the Miata in very different ways. LOL 👍

[@3ducs]

Miata is always the answer.

[@tylerscott305]

Seems like "independent suspension" is not a suspension type in itself, but a category that includes trailing arm, multi-link, double wishbone, and McPherson strut, isn't it?

[@weatheranddarkness]

Correct!!

[@timiko4]

Isn't "Independent suspension" just umbrella term for almost all of these? Double wishbone, multilink, MacPherson , trailing arm and many more like swing axle are independent designs

[@IrredeemableGhost]

That's what I've known it to be. This video felt super off.

[@benbunch4159]

Yeah a little odd how it's presented. You also could argue torsion beam which he lumps in with rigid axle is a semi-independent suspension.

[@dan1906]

While that is true, it's irrelevant. This video is about the specific use of double wishbone in F1. What is your point?

[@christianellegaard7120]

And isn't double-wishbone also a type of multi-link?

[@timiko4]

@@christianellegaard7120 well technically you could qualify it as that, but usually it means something with no or just one classic wishbone and traversal arms.

[@JustinsSoapbox]

Bro, love your videos but this one needs some serious corrections/additions. The trailing arm, MacPherson strut, multi-link, and double-wishbone suspension types presented here are all types of independent suspension. "Independent" just means movement at one wheel doesn't directly disturb the other wheel (barring the anti-roll bar). In other words, "independent" just means "not a solid axle". The "trailing arm" animations don't actually show the trailing arms. Double-wishbone suspensions are not more complicated than multilink. Very often it's the other way around. MacPherson struts aren't just ruled out of open wheelers by the lack of mounting points. They're also (mainly?) ruled out by their terrible camber curves, the fact that they put a lot of mass out near the corners of the car, the side forces on the dampers, etc. Besides aero, another factor in how everything is packaged in a single-seater is to keep mounting points centralized, both to minimize polar moment of inertia and to make it easier to ensure that the structure is stiff around all the mounting points.

[@Bannerdrums]

Guys... Your information is off. First, everything outside of solid axle is independent suspension, including formula one. Multi-link is ALWAYS going to be the most adjustable and in theory is the superior suspension. The thing is, formula 1 works a bit different. They can make a new control arm for each race and the mounting allows enough adjustment to suit the packaging. A multi link system is an "install once and tune as needed" system, vs changing the lengths of parts every time. Great for any vehicle that doesn't require aero. That's why you see a lot of SAE formula cars with that setup. They can also have pull rod or push rod. Basically, you take the wishbones and split the point they connect on the upright. With multi link, you can also have a trailing arm. Long story short, you've got some decent information, but I think this is overall one of the most incorrect videos y'all have put together.

[@dan1906]

I need help understanding your point, if you have one. The video is about why F1 uses double wishbone suspension, specifically and exclusively. What do other types of independent suspensions have to do with the topic here?

[@LaggerSVK]

@@dan1906 if it was only about wishbone but he protraited some background where the information was incorrect

[@LaggerSVK]

Agree. Unfortunately I am watching him for few years and its not as uncommon to have some serious facts messed up in his videos.

[@Bannerdrums]

​​​​​​@@dan1906the information regarding what is and isn't superior in terms of performance, as well as the categories and type of suspension systems are incorrect. Even the red bulls have used multi link in the front in the past and I'm almost certain formula one has used multi link in pas generations. Without aerodynamics, a multi link independent system (because you can also have multi link on a solid axle) is always best if engineered correctly. It gives you the maximum adaptability, tuning, and controlling the geometry of wheel travel. Formula one uses double wishbone for packaging and aero. If they need to make an adjustment to caster or geometry, they manufacture new control arms to fit that. With a multi link system, that's not needed, as it is much more adjustable. The downside with multi link is you need larger uprights to fit the links and you are more likely to incur an aero penalty across the arms as they are usually designed to be adjustable with a nut and thread. You can get minor adjustments done in the form of cam bolts, but again, the weight penalty of the larger uprights is a big deal in formula one as that is additional unsprung weight. The main point of this video is stating that double wishbone is the best thing out there, when it's not. It's the best thing for formula one because of packaging and the nature of the sport, and that point is totally missed. There are various other bits that are misconstrued. You could technically have push or pull rods with any type of suspension, even solid axle. The purpose of push or pull rods is to relocate the springs to a more desired location, as well as use the mechanical properties of levers to manipulate the forces for what the application demands. In theory, you could use the rods to have a 6 foot spring control only 6 inches of travel, or 6 feet of travel controlled by a 6 inch spring. Obviously neither is practical, but it's a hyperbolic example of what push or pull rods are actually for. This video makes it seem like you can only have rods with double wishbone and uses that as another example of superiority, which is completely false since push and pull rods are simply another component of suspension design that can be adapted to any application as needed. Case and point, this is a solid axle push rod multi link suspension setup: www.cachassisworks.com/cac_press_TCP_RearPushrodSuspension.html

[@lars_hbm]

Another point is, not all teams run double wishbone suspensions right now... A lot of them actually use multi link layouts, especially in the rear.

[@kobi399]

Being independent is more of a perk a suspension setup can have. Like Double wishbone is by nature independent, whereas an axle is not.

[@dan1906]

Despite reading your comment over and over again, I cannot make sense of it. Things like, "more of a perk a suspension setup can have", baffles me. What are you trying to say?

[@aintheidot9111]

@@dan1906 he means rather than independent suspension being considered a type of suspension alongside double wishbone or trailing arm, it's a description of what a double wishbone is. Double wishbones also qualify as an independent setup, as the axles on them are by design not having one solid axle driving both wheels, and therefore independent.

[@dan1906]

@@aintheidot9111 Do you always speak for other people? And, FWIW, I have forgotten more about suspension geometry and layout than you know. So thanks for the amateur explanation.

[@EddieTheH]

​@@dan1906 Has being unnecessarily obtuse with strangers made you many friends?

[@Drum_x_Life]

Yep but with antirollbar they became as " dipendent " Antirollbar influence also the other sospension and the diagonal of rear axle

[@piotrmalewski8178]

1:57 - discusses independend suspension. Shows solid axle.

[@olivialambert4124]

The script seems like it was ChatGPT as it has glaring mistakes which make no sense. It was said that you want double wishbone suspension rather than independent suspension, McPherson, trailing arm, etc. However double wishbone suspension IS independent suspension. As is the McPhereson strut, multilink, trailing arm, and so on. Independent is the rough classification whilst double wishbone is the specific classification. It's like saying you don't want an animal as a pet you want a dog - a dog IS an animal. I'd assume a human writing the script would have easily picked up on huge issues like that.

[@lars_hbm]

Double wishbone suspensions were mandatory a couple of years ago - defined by the formula one rulebook until the 2021/22 cars. Some of the teams actually use multi link layouts (sauber, mercedes and eedbull to name a couple of them). You have additional degrees of freedom in the kinematics, elastokinmatics and also it might bring one or the other benefit in terms of aero So no, not all teams use double wishbone suspensions right now...

[@ozstriker4075]

If I remember correctly the 2nd generation Honda Prelude had double wishbone suspension, front and rear. Mated with the 4WS it was a great handling car 👌🏼

[@SylvesterOziomek]

It's a little strange braking down. I'd say we've got two different categories: dependent and independent. Obviously rigid axle is dependent where Macpherson, multi link and double wishbone are independent (you did show footage of double wishbone suspension when started independent section). Where it comes to trailing arms, it depends whether it uses a solid axle or not.

[@mcduvall2000]

I think you need to mention that independent is not different than all the other types except ridgid, they are sub-types of independent. According to your explanation and video clips shown, independent and double wishbone are the exact same thing, not different types...

[@khasmir666]

I have to agree

[@markotrieste]

Exactly, McPherson, multilink and double whisbone are all independent. For the trailing arm, usually they are connected left-right to save on the rear roll bar, thus sometimes classified as semi-independent.

[@Bannerdrums]

@@markotrieste multi-link isn't even exclusive to independent suspension. Jeep wranglers have a 4 link (so... multi-link) setup.

[@markotrieste]

@@Bannerdrums But on a live axle, you say?

[@ukwan]

Multilink rear suspension gives an advantage over dual wishbones as you can control toe during bump/rebound. So you can have the car gain or lose rear traction during braking or acceleration. But F1 cars suspension layouts generally have more to do with the control of air flow than suspension. As Chapman said any suspension system will work in a race car if you just stop it moving. 😂

[@hordleydesign]

F1 do also use multi link rear. Not all but some, for exactly the same reason you mention :)

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@hordleydesign in fact some of the recent Mercedes had split wishbones in front as well, on the top if I remember correctly, making it a multilink situation. Configured in an "A" anyway. On road cars there might be a full width crossmember like a panhard rod as part of the arrangement as well, which wouldn't fit in an F1 even if you wanted.

[@dimitarsavov3639]

Correction (7:02) - Leclerc pulled 7G of braking while overtaking Perez on the last lap of the Las Vegas GP.

[@weatheranddarkness]

excuse me? How is that even possible?

[@dimitarsavov3639]

@@weatheranddarkness There are tech analysis. Search and you will see.

[@friktionrc]

@@weatheranddarknessLeclerc was behind Perez as they got onto the 2.1 mile straight and stayed behind Perez but closed the gap all the time until just before the left hand corner at the end of the straight…meaning both cars were travelling bloody quick before getting to the corner. Leclerc sent it up the inside at the last minute.It was this braking force that slowed the car down enough to make the move stick (and enable Leclerc to make the corner) that I believe is where the ‘7G of braking’ comes from.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@friktionrc it sounds too implausible. Last I heard F1 cars could only brake at 5g.

[@friktionrc]

@@weatheranddarkness I believe it's around 5g, not 5g max, meaning the force generated can be less or slightly more as the force is determined by entry speed and other factors (eg if they suddenly hit a wall/car in front etc etc).

[@anythingrandomlytaped8288]

I'd argue walking up and down a pit lane full of formula student cars is a lot more fascinating than F1 due to the variety of suspension geometries there are, I saw one this summer where the damper was mounted basically on the back of the upright where it was attached at the top then near the bottom there was a bell crank to redirect the force up and towards the top of the chassis where a regular pushrod setup would attatch. Very interesting concept even if I'm not convinced in its effectiveness, unfortunately that team didn't get past scrutineering so I never saw it on track

[@Alstrak]

The amount of bad animations and even some misinformation, shows that this video was rushed and not thoroughly rewatched before uploading.

[@joshpike]

I'm not a gear head, but I _love_ the technical videos! Please keep these coming :)

[@XscrewdriverX]

RedBull is actually multilink front for few years.

[@videomaniac108]

This is one of the reasons that I love my Nissan 370Z so much, for its unequal length double-wishbone front suspension and sophisticated multi-link rear suspension. I further improved the handling by installing stiffer anti-roll bars, lighter forged magnesium wheels, two-piece aluminum hat brake rotors and grippy Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires. The car, obviously, isn't a F1 contender but it does handle very nicely and is tons of fun to drive. I just need to upgrade my driving skills to match the handling potential of the car.

[@dovydasuzumeckas5088]

RB15 and RB16 used multi link front suspension

[@benjaminmazanka4354]

My car has double wishbone. It makes such a difference in driving through corners, perfect.

[@joshuapowers4623]

I say we mandate front & rear solid axles with leaf springs for 2025 just to see what happens.

[@barrupa]

better than that. Just give it rigid axles with no suspension and leave all the work to the tyres

[@_Dimon_]

@@barrupa that would be a gokart.

[@barrupa]

@@_Dimon_ exactly.

[@davidof2001]

love that Benltey and the sound it makes

[@khasmir666]

Everything except the rigid axle are different types of independent suspension, then you can't have that as a separate type next to the other sub-types.

[@Giuliana-w1f]

There's also different types of solid axle, the torsion beam in a cheap car is not the same as a 3 or 4 link solid axle, and both of those arr different from a leaf spring live axle

[@dan1906]

Why? The suspension types listed are those commonly found. The video is about double wishbone suspension in F1, specifically. it is NOT about independent suspension as a whole.

[@khasmir666]

@@Giuliana-w1f A solid axle is a solid axle no matter what kind of springs are used. And then you forget to add air ride as well if you want to go down that path

[@khasmir666]

@@dan1906 Are you drunk?

[@Giuliana-w1f]

@@khasmir666 a solid axle is a solid axle. But there's leaf spring solid axles (using the springs to keep it in place); 3, 4, and i think 5 link solid axles (with springs that don't keep the axle in place by themselves, instead using the links); and torsion beam suspension (with the axle being linked in 2 places directly). It's like saying that indepenent suspension is independent suspension. It's true, but a swing axle is not the same as a multi link.

[@vroomvroom4061]

The design of the wishbone is meant to handle transverse and direct forces when going over small bumps. Some vehicles may have what looks like half of a wishbone. This is so that it can handle the direct force going straight or when turning going over bumps.

[@clivewilliams3661]

The independent suspension as shown is the same as wishbone suspension. The Macpherson strut does not support the lateral load on the suspension - how can it? The lateral loads are handled by the track control arm and the caster by a push or pull rod link however, some cars use the anti-roll (sway) bar to do that duty. Solid/beam axles can be highly effective on a race track simply because there are few if any bumps to contend with and they can be made very light, just look at karts and no-one doubts their handling and adhesion. Also, DeDion rear axles were/are popular because they give all the advantages of a beam axle without the excess weight. This was used on various Grand Prix cars back in the day in preference to double wishbone suspension. Current F1 cars use wishbone suspension because it gives more options on suspension set up and the inboard suspension units cleans up the space between tub and wheel.

[@PegLegKegCraig]

Double wishbones are so tasty and underrated. I drove a GR86 and was massively disappointed with the McPherson suspension. I guess a boxer engine is too wide to cram between a set of wishbones. Not a problem for a rotor motor, that’s why I stuck with the old RX-8. 10x better steering feel, especially over the limit. Plus it makes a much better noise.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

Doesn't every bird have 2 wishbones? A single wishbone wouldn't work.

[@ivandoe33]

finally a useful topic after a while.

[@levilastun829]

I always thought that the best suspension design possible is double wish bone in the front and multi link in the rear. I remember reading that the multi link is more adjustable than the double wish bone, but can't really be used on the front wheel which have the steering system.

[@rkan2]

Audis have had multilink for a long time. The original FWF ones even had a multilink with a rear torsion bar (e.g. not independent suspension). Think A4 B5 & A6 C5

[@bbbenj]

Quite clear for me, now, thanks 👍

[@Switch_X_Back3884]

On the double wishbone I was looking forward to know the difference in push rod and pull rod.

[@Bannerdrums]

The difference between push rod and pull rod comes down to how the linkage acts on the spring. Push rod is the most straight forward. As the suspension compresses, the force goes through levers and a rocker mechanism and the force at the end compresses the spring and shock. Pull rod does the opposite. You can think of it like a see saw. Say you're lifting one side and a spring is acting on the other side. A push rod setup is where the spring on the other side is below the see saw, attached to the ground. When you lift, you squish the spring on the other side. Pull rod would have the spring mounted above, like as if it were attached to the ceiling. You lift, and you end up pulling on the spring on the other side.

[@4BillC]

I have a 2001 Audi it is fwd so rear is a solid dead axle but the front has 4 control arms! 2 upper and 2 lower. Then I gave it 300whp and lowered it so it has a bit of negative camber (like - 1.5) and it handles really good for a car that over 20 years old!

[@boudewijnb]

It probably has a twist beam rear suspension, nos a solid dead axle, unless it's a van.

[@4BillC]

@@boudewijnb it's kind of shaped like a big C. It pivots with a bushing at, what would be, either end of said C. It does sit on coilovers on all 4 corners. I can do just about anything to a car and I've rebuilt just about everything on this one but I'm definitely not a suspension guru...

[@4BillC]

@@boudewijnb just looked into a twist beam. Then went back in photos to when I had it out to replace the bushings and I guess it would be considered a twist beam... Thanks! Now I know...

[@BattleNugG3t]

5:50 Hello from Czech Republic! :D

[@kooooons]

The "trailing arm" shown is not a trailing arm. And most small hatchbacks have a twist beam rear axla which is not the same as a rigid axle, it's more like a trailing arm with a really hard anti roll bar. Also, trailing arm doesn't need a mounting point above the wheels they could use push rods or torsion springs as well. Lastly, semi trailing arms can control camber and provide a good deal of anti squat. They were not uncommon in sports cars in the past. The first Z4 had them. My Porsche 944 has them too.

[@RWBHere]

Thanks. That's useful information. 🙂👍

[@Fpvpilot928]

Isn't a double wishbone suspension also independent? (Redundant question, as double wishbone suspension is always independent)

[@alimzazaz]

Macphersons, double wishbones and multilinks are subsets of independent suspension Unless you put sway bars/anti-roll bars, then the definition would be less clear

[@nnr3]

I understand that the point of the video is double wishbone in F1 cars but you could’ve reiterated that apart from the rigid/solid axle, all those are independent suspension. Also double wishbone is a multilink suspension.

[@SrikanthSivaramakrishnan]

As of 2023, F1 cars use a hybrid multilink in the rear. two links instead of a lower wishbone

[@Dornpunzel]

I am glad my MX-5 / Miata uses the same suspension type as F1 Cars. 😀

[@georgeoliver8300]

Can you make a video on why wider tyres equals more grip. Cos the physics says that the surface area has zero affect on friction and in lab experiments it doesn’t but it does on cars for some reason

[@Bannerdrums]

I believe it comes down to heat disapation, being able to handle the high load (think downforce spread over a wider area) and a basic physics model doesn't take things like sidewall deformation/strength and the transfer of rubber from the tire to the surface.

[@ajdurkee8663]

This is glossing over ALOT of relatively complex intermolecular physics that I myself do not fully understand; but from my understanding of the reading I have done for my FSAE team, I would say the main reason to is load sensitivity. The Formula for friction, F=µN is technically incorrect for tires because they’re made of rubber which is non-Newtonian and viscoelastic. All that is to say that as the load on a tire (N) increases, the coefficient of friction (µ) between the tire and the road decreases at an increasing rate. Because of the diminishing returns, it is ideal to maximize contact patch so you can reduce the force per unit area thus maximizing coefficient of friction. That’s not to say temperature isn’t a reason as it is definitely easier to work thinner tires to a point that they overheat and lose grip but it is a balancing act. Too wide and they would get too difficult to work them into an optimum temperature range. Vehicle Dynamics in general is an art in balancing variables. There is NEVER a perfect setup just infinite possible solutions with some better than others. If you’re interested more about car setup or Vehicle Dynamics, Tune to Win by Carroll Smith and Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Bill and Doug Milliken (find the pdf online) are great reads.

[@dan1906]

@@Bannerdrums No

[@dan1906]

The practical answer is, the greater the contact patch, the greater the grip. Wider tires potentially offer more contact area, therefor more grip and more road holding. This is why many racing series' limit tire width, among other factors. That is the simple answer. There are many other factors to consider for total grip (friction). Assuming equal loading across a tire, there is more grip with a wider tire.

[@georgeoliver8300]

@@dan1906 it’s not that simple tho. You can do the experiment yourself. Make a weighted sled on side is flat and one side has skis (massively reducing the surface area) and test how much force it take to pull the sled and the force is exactly the same no matter the surface area. Aslong as the mass and the contact material are the same the friction force is exactly the same

[@chir0pter]

0:40 I'm sorry what??? Which small hatchbacks have solid axles 😂

[@Projekt5.3]

Plenty of them actually lol. They aren't live axles. (Imagine a trailer axle)

[@Mladjasmilic]

You have solid axle. All others are independent, except if they use anty roll bar.

[@leenux1707]

old beetle and porsche have trailing arms in the front if I remember correctly

[@josephharrison5639]

For anyone curious nascar uses independent front suspension with rear coil overs

[@marsdeimos4301]

My man, this video needs some rework. Lot of mistakes there. - Independent suspension isn't a separate type, it's more of a category. Multilink, double wishbone, MacPherson (Chapman), (semi) trailing arm are all Independent. It just means that left wheel can move independently from the right wheel. What you have on the buggy at 1:36 is just a version of double wishbone with unequal leght of wishbones, also called short long arms suspension. - No mention at all of twist-beam rear suspension. THE most common type of suspension on FWD mainstream cars. Cheap, reliable, easy to service, good enough bump/rebound geometry. Since its basically a pair of trailing arms connected together by a torsion bar which acts as an anti-roll bar, and the torsion bar is usually welded to the trailing arm somewhere halfway between its bushing and the wheel hub, it means that left and right wheel bumb and rebound movements affect each other, but not as much as with solid axle, so it's a semi-independent suspension. - No mention of swing axle - typical for Tatra trucks with backbone chassis. - No mention of more exotic or obsolete types, like De Dion tube, sliding Pillar, Dubonnet ... but these are rarely found today, so that's not a big deal though. Trailing arm animation at 2:14 is all sorts of wrong: first of all, why is the arm behind the differential? It looks more like a leading arm, rather than trailing arm. Also, usually on RWD cars like BMWs that didn't have DW or multilink, there would be a semi-trailing arm rather than just a trailing arm. Also, why are the semi-axles and differential moving up and down with wheels? It shows nothing how the (supposedly) trailing arm affects wheel geometry. It also has to be said that multilinks come in all different shapes and forms: - There is the old Italian enhanced McPherson (or Chapman, since it was a rear axle) where instead of a lower wishbone there was a trailing arm and two lateral arms. Technically could be considered a multilink. Found on Lancia Delta, Kappa and Thema, Alfa Romeo 164, 156, 147 and GT, Subaru Impreza WRX, Ford Cougar and Mondeo, and probably many other makes and models. - There is the Ford Focus ControlBlade, rear suspension designed for FWD cards where the upright is controled by one trailing arm ("Blade"), two lower arms and one upper arm, to facilitate passive rear wheel steering (compliance understeer) for improved stability, and similar setups by other makes for FWD cars (VW, Toyota, ...). - There was the very unique multilink on Alfa Romeo GTV/Spider 916: forum.clubalfa.it/attachments/gtv_-_retrotreno-jpg.49580/ which, unlike other multilinks for FWD cars that were tuned to passively steer in same direction as front wheels when flexed during cornering (compliance understeer), this one is actually set up to first passively steer slightly in the opposite direction (oversteer), and then shift to passive understeer. - There was the also unusual multilink on Alfa Romeo Giulietta, where the trailing arm and upright assembly was one solid unit, which was controlled for toe and camber geometry by two lateral arms. - There was yet another unusual multilink by Alfa Romeo, used on Giulia and Stelvio, called AlfaLinkTM, which unlike the usual 5 link setups, where all links connect to the chassis on one end and upright on the other, this had a wishbone instead of two lower control arms, and a link that connects to the wishbone at one end, and the upright and one of the upper control arms at the other. - Then, there was of course the OG Mercedes 5 link suspension, designed for RWD cars, first introduced on the Merceces W201, which had four lateral arms (two upper and two lower), and one semi-trailing arm. This design would inform most subsequent 5-link RWD suspensions. Anyway, back to Formula 1: your reasoning why double wishbone was selected does not explain why multilink could not be also used. I mean, just add one extra semi-trailing control arm at the rear and voila, it's a multilink, where instead of 3 or 4 separate lateral control arms, there are two wishbones doing the same job. Now I'm going to say something controversial so brace yourself: The front suspension on a Formula 1 car could technically be considered a Multilink. You've got the two wishbones, which do the job of 3-4 lateral control arms to control camber and caster, and then there is the tie rod, connected to steering rack, that controls toe. So why not use the same setup at the rear? Because rear wheel steering is banned in Formula 1.

[@Chris.Davies]

It's worth noting double wishbone is superior for track use because if your shock absorber fails, the wheel keeps pointing in the right direction. If your strut fails (or worse; breaks!) with a McPherson strut front setup, then your day could end very badly indeed, as you *will* lose control of the car at the worst possible time and place. Happened to me once, in a mate's 928. I got lucky. And so it is for this reason that when I am at the track in a car with McPherson Struts on the front, I take it very easy on the curbs - either staying off them completely, or only touching them gently late in the corner. Better safe, than sorry, eh? Edit: It's probably also worth saying that the function of a sway bar or anti-roll bar is best described as automatically stiffening the suspension (by increasing the spring rate) on the compressed side.

[@dan1906]

What? That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. I don't even know where to start. A "shock absorber" (in motorsports they're dampers) failure does not equal suspension failure. It just stops damping. They leak oil and cause damping issues upon failure, especially if you do not maintain them. To break a strut outright requires a crash of some sort. It's more likely to break a ball joint, to which double wishbone suspensions have 2. Again, it takes neglect, or a crash, for this to occur. Double wishbone has far more potential for failure as it has more pivot points and moving parts. Given the same level of neglect double wishbone is more prone to catastrophic failure. People have been racing on McPherson type suspensions for many decades. I do, and continue to do so with no major failures. They are no more prone to failures due to the design than any other.

[@christopherasuncion4671]

Fun fact that almost all Honda affordable cars of the late 80's and 90's had double wish bones suspensions. With ignorance, affordability and having the mentality latest is always the greatest, customers don't know/didn't appreciate what they had.

[@ergoproxy-gx2cq]

Slightly unrelated but is it possible to attach a third element spring (for heave control) on a McPherson strut setup or is that only feasible on cars with inboard springs like a formula car 🤔

[@tylerscott305]

It could be done pretty simply with a Z-bar. It's just like a sway bar, but with one end flipped backwards; so instead of resisting roll, it resists both wheels moving in the same direction.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@tylerscott305 Would require extra structure since a sway bar isn't really up to those kinds of loads, it's basically meant to control droop in practice.

[@alexnicolaou3579]

isn't the independent suspension usually a double wishbone design, but without any links between the left and right sides on an axle? for example no anti-roll bars etc.

[@NoBrakes23]

@4:01 "You'll find this in sports cars like the Mazda MX-5, Alpine A110, and in the Porsche 911 GT3, as well as most top end supercars" *ahem* and 4th-6th gen Civics *ahem*

[@Ghost_PM11]

Pullrod vs pushrod. That'd be an interesting video.

[@Ang3lUki]

I was under the impression that multilink suspensions were superior to double wishbone setups, having greater control over suspension dynamics.

[@jimspc07]

So I should get out the old 1960 Hillman minx and put a F1 logo on the front to match the unequal length wishbones, but leave a minx badge on the back. Maybe put a turbo on the 1592 donk? Will that give me a racing car?

[@GooseGooseDuck797]

Feels like an one style wtf1 video. How I miss the old days

[@hunkymunky4826]

I like when car goes vroom vroom

[@mcanderson0]

Multi link is way more complicated than a double wishbone, and more often than not, double wishbone is really simple and gives really predictable handling and desirable geometry thru most of the travel. Also, you didn't really show the trailing arms of the trailing arm arrangement.

[@Merto6]

What is lotus 49's front suspension? Looks like double wishbone but the spring is on the top wishbone instead of a separate rod.

[@Onewheelordeal]

Funny owning an NA Miata among many other cars when you hop in a 30yr old car and it's your best handling

[@baribari600]

The first suspension shown as a multilink (AFAIK only used on rears) is a double wishbone.

[@rkan2]

Red Bull has used multilink in the front too since 2020

[@fourmula4812]

if you uze mini-z kyosho ma-010 suspension you can put spoilers where the a armz are

[@AY_______]

More Technical videos please Innovative Technology is rapid...

[@justaguywithcrx]

So that means my Honda CRX is a F1 car?

[@laurean5998]

Come on man, first 3:27, double wishbone replaces 4 push-pull rods with 2 control arms. How is it more complex?!? And then 5:57. All of there types are different forms of independent suspensions, the fact independent suspension is presented as an alternative is ridiculous.

[@andoletube]

The description of trailing arm suspension here is wrong.

[@SssagaBenches4U]

So, same as Honda CRX in my garage :)

[@andyfisher6025]

Reliant Kitten uses double wishbone suspension on the front to 😉

[@028mohammedfaisal9]

would appreciate if the animations were shown for a bit longer instead of flasing them for few seconds. Great video though!

[@gort8203]

All but solid axles are types of independent suspensions. Who wrote this script?

[@Chris.Davies]

Just a tiny point about suspension on an EV. They only have to make it last 10 years, because the car will be scrap by then. Meantime, the alloy suspension on my 41-year-old 928 is working perfectly, with new nolathane bushes.

[@dan1906]

You're using a 928 as a benchmark for reliability and cost of ownership? Are you drunk?

[@Bannerdrums]

I have been in the automotive industry for over 15 years, working on things from huge trucks to classics, to race cars and electric vehicles. Never once in my entire career have I ever seen suspension fail from anything other than lack of maintenance or massive impact. You replaced the bushes on your 928, if you hadn't done so, the bolt holding the bit in would fail and I bet it would do it in well under 10 years. It's the same with literally every single vehicle out there, EV or otherwise.

[@chabweezy9905]

Smartest fuel glazer

[@f.b.i2644]

What is Alpine? Never heard of that brand.

[@markotrieste]

I was expecting a video of 5 seconds "because this is the only solution allowed by the rules" 😂

[@everTriumph]

De Dion, swing axle, swing spring...... Aren't double wishbones twice as lucky?

[@RDMracer]

How did you miss the fact that the rocker can create a progressive motion ratio effect in the script?

[@joshlewis5065]

Optimized geometry. Next question

[@HaveFunBikes]

"Many things!"

[@lll9416]

Or unequal length A arms, as it was called in the 60s..

[@IsaacSchultz-lz8jc]

It’s funny and RC cars double wishbone is the most common set up.

[@TracKnGravelDeWd]

Someone needs to do a video on the crazy lines Alonso was taking in Brazil to stay in front of Perez. Wierd angles etc. Check out the vid from checos car it's very interesting

[@samuelgarrod8327]

That was as clear as Hammonds visor...

[@Mountain-Man-3000]

5:55 IS THAT AN F1 CAR WITH HEADLIGHTS?!!

[@ielmosTTR]

The answer is "because multilink, despite being the most tunable, weights and encumbers too much"

[@rekrabfps1610]

I don’t think they design cars to last 25 years anymore 😅

[@iquerius]

Why can’t you guys stop mixing units? That is literally insane!

[@stuffedcrust4522]

what kinda suspension do wrc cars use?

[@adamlake9507]

I always laugh how Matt is such a great hype man and Ben just chirps the sht out of him while hyping up Jamie

[@MarkoVukovic0]

Saying live/dead axle is exclusively for rear wheels and showing multiple clips of it used on front wheels 🤣

[@al1087]

Chevy 2500s use a double wishbone but with a torsion bar.

[@remedy81]

Pullrod suspension on most of the f1 cars🤔🤷🏻‍♂️ McLaren and RBR are the only ones using pullrods on the fronts…

[@ngauruhoezodiac3143]

Of course that kind of double wishbone suspension is not practical in a road car. The longer the wishbones the better it works but they take up a lot of space.

[@grospipo20]

I have one question what rear suspension does red bull use because that is their secret!

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

Old Hondas used double wishbone.

[@adrianp3098]

“Last for 25 years” Not anymore.

[@OMG_No_Way]

🤦‍♂️ Shows a Jeep when talking about independent suspension and then shows a Bronco for solid axle suspension. Ummmmmm……it’s the other way around. 😂

[@samuelgarrod8327]

It's all down to gravity basically.

[@ielmosTTR]

Trailing arm suspensions are not the ones displayed...

[@Tigerfire75]

A major decider is the rules and restrictions. They try and use different suspension but it gets banned. You do a disservice to your viewers by trying make it seem thus is the best system . It is the system allowed and if you try something else you may get punished. That punishment may be the loss of all the time and money put into development.

[@ryanwaege7251]

So they get twice the wishes when they break off the bigger pieces.