Why Front Tire is "Backwards"

[@the1khronohs40]

Okey. But I’m not entirely happy with this answer. It makes total sense regarding forces and wear reduction. But the main purpose of the thread is to vacate water, and the thread being ‘bakwards’ seems to do the exact opposite. I.e. when going forwards the grooves would push water towards the center of the tire, where you absolutely do not want water to accumulate!? No?

[@simonbarrow479]

If the bike is leant over then water is forced out towards the middle of the tyre, but since the middle isn’t in contact with the road it’s not a problem. If you are going straight then the water will be forced out but slightly forwards. I’ve never found it to be a real world problem.

[@stestar09]

As you say waters forced towards the center when cornering, thats a good thing as we don't want water the accumulate towards the outside as you need the grip more than ever under increased lean angle

[@GIGABACHI]

I have always wondered the same thing. If the sipes on the contact patch look like an arrow pointing forward (i.e Pilot 5), it seems to me that water would "want" to move forward thru the sipes (center of contact patch). I thought we have always wanted the opposite effect ? My other theory: At speed, the water will channel itself backwards because of the speed and direction of travel compared to tire rotation. Unless I see it in a slow motion test FILMED under a plexiglass flooded surface OR anay other see thru surface, I won't believe one explanation or the other. My only choice it's "trust" the manufacturer's instructions. 🙄🤷‍♂

[@carloalbertoranzani8041]

That’s probably a thing with car tires that are large and flat, not allowing an easy escape to water, needing water to be “channeled” in some specific direction. On motorcycle tires I guess that, being rounded, the slits could just run almost in any direction that doesn’t just block the escape from the contact patch, as seen in some racing rain tires that just have perpendicular slits.

[@戴紀煬]

It's probably a compromise between tire wear and expelling water. Also, as @carloalbertoranzani8041said said, bike tires are narrower, making it easier for water to escape.

[@michaelh7623]

Lol, I was one of those guys who asked why a tire was on backwards.....embarrassing.

[@karpich1994]

I use that as a joke, idk how many people think i am a dumbass.😅

[@alloounou6900]

I'm here because I thought mine were installed backwards but didn't want to go back to the shop to ask.

[@Mysteria9]

Not embarrassing at all in my opinion. It looks unnatural, so of course we ask! And then we learn.

[@justmechanicthings]

being a car guy, i would have done the same thing

[@archyart6851]

Me too . I’ve been commenting on every shorts with motorcycles why front tire was reversed 😂😂😂

[@kkhalifah1019]

Ahh... since the chain drives only the rear wheel, the rear tyre has to accommodate acceleration more than braking forces. Conversely, since most of the braking is done with the front brakes the front tyre has to accommodate braking forces, but no acceleration. Got it! Thank you. As the Michelin video shows, it's all about how the rubber rubs against the road and the way forces act on it when accelerating and braking. Grooves in the rubber evacuate water simply by providing physical spaces for the water to occupy, but the grooves must be patterned to match the way the rubber rubs against the road to manage wear, noise, and grip. Serious off-road tyres that must prioritize biting into the dirt and self-clean may have the same blocky tread pattern on both sides but everybody knows the downside -- they're a lot noisier and wear out a lot faster. Car tyre tread patterns all run in the same direction because all 4 tyres must handle braking forces since the brakes are on all 4 wheels. The driving tyres that also handle acceleration will inevitably wear out faster as a result, but that is why you rotate the tyres periodically. Since you can't rotate tyres on a bike, the tread patterns are designed accordingly. Learned something today!

[@ThePresidentofMars]

Thanks for dumbing it down even more than the video did.

[@kingj6477]

I mean most cars have different rear/front tires

[@ken481959]

The simplest explanation for tire rotation direction installation is this: put the tire on in the direction the manufacturer specified. Tires have the direction marked on them for usage as a front or rear tire. Also, be careful about where you get your tires. Buying them online can be cheaper, but often the tires have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for years, and the volatile elements of the compound have literally evaporated. This is why you want to check the date code on the tire. While buying a tire at a shop may cost a bit more, you are more likely to get a fresher tire. And a reputable shop will normally give you some type of better warranty on ones you purchased from them, rather than ones you bring on your own. The shop I spend time at will not warranty any tire they don't sell.

[@andycocchia4202]

Dude!! I intentionally searched for this exact type of video, kept scrolling looking for a moto control, daddy yam, or someone I am familiar with to exprain this for me. Decide fuck it, guess I’ll use this one. Then I hear my oh so familiar motorcycle learning acccent. Thank you good sir for making the exact video I was looking for

[@garyt123]

Absolutely brilliant video! Thank you so much! I just fitted Michelin Road 6's to one of my bikes, and a few weeks ago a friend pointed out that "they have fitted your front tyre backwards". I checked and it is correctly fitted. By pure chance your video popped up in my feed today! 😃

[@yoroptics]

Ditto tyre Ditto realisation Ditto learning Hahahaha

[@michaelcaine8311]

Goes to show your phone listens all the time

[@GIGABACHI]

The Matrix (your phone) it's ALWAYS listening.

[@robinwells8879]

Thats because your device heard your friends comment. Not disconcerting at all😂

[@banoniebatute9682]

But the water drainage is counter intuitive on the anti V front tire. And as mentioned by you the threads are for water evacuation. So this still doesnt make sense to me.

[@gregmarking6716]

I was thinking exactly the same.

[@bloodspartan300]

I agree it still doesn't make sense, hopefully someone explains why and makes it make sense

[@tytytut435]

@@bloodspartan300 carloalbertoranzani8041 and dmv118 explained this pretty good: "That’s probably a thing with car tires that are large and flat, not allowing an easy escape to water, needing water to be “channeled” in some specific direction. On motorcycle tires I guess that, being rounded, the slits could just run almost in any direction that doesn’t just block the escape from the contact patch, as seen in some racing rain tires that just have perpendicular slits.” “I''ve thought about it a bit, and my opinion on this matter is that since it's a motorcycle tyre, it's fairly round as opposed to a car's tyre where it is flatter. So, if there's standing water on the road, there's not a lot of water going into the contact patch really when the bike's moving. Of course, when you want to change directions on a motorcycle, you got to lean, right? That's where the grooves mainly come into play. Since the outside grooves go toward the center, it's technically the correct direction now, making sure the contact patch on the outer parts of the tyre is secure. Last thing, since it's a motorcycle, the front brake is used 90% of the time to stop the bike. The front tyre is taking all of that deceleration forces, and with the direction of the grooves, it'll be more efficient at taking those forces."

[@blackmedia7075]

Since a motorcycle tire is rounded and not flat like a car tire, only a small fraction of the V will touch the road. If you drive straight, only the middle of the tire and the V touches the road. If you drive a curve, only the right or the left side of the tire and the V touch the road. The V whill never touch the road as a complete V, only a small part of it. So the V shape does not matter, the only thing that matters is that there is some space in the tire for the water to escape. If the whole V in the tire touches the road (left side, right side and middle of the motorcycle tire), then you have a completely different problem

[@glowiever]

same. it's rather unintuitive.

[@mattzobian]

His point is that the tread sipes patterns are "reversed" on the front vs rear tire because the front bears more DECELERATION force while the rear bears more ACCELERATION force. (When you brake, weight shifts forward; when you accelerate, weight shifts back.) The reversed patterns therefore help minimize tire wear during street riding, because you're minimzing the amount of sipe-edge getting exposed to a force. Yes, this does mean that the front tire's water channeling is compromised (some gets squished inward instead of away). This apparently does not a make a big difference in wet road handling.

[@JoelBergmark]

This makes sense in some cases but if one drives high way most of time and no aggressive tilting it to me would to me seem more important to have better capability to direct water away on the front tire than it to handle more force. So if that is more important or one's pain point, like living in a place where rains a lot then thread should be the other way.

[@estebanod]

I love when videos go from "why front tire is backward" to "here's the entire history of tires and the physics behind it, how to build a tire, how to get a job at Michelin and invest into the tire stock market" before answering the question

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

Hahahaha well you can use google if you want

[@GIGABACHI]

@@estebanod . . . .shit, he never answered the question to begin with.

[@ElZamo92]

@@GIGABACHI he did... he just had to explain it so that it makes sense... If you want me to explain from what he said in the video, the way the tread on the tyres doesn't really matter to vacate water but it does matter for the direction of the wear on the tyres. The back wheel is made to withstand the forces of accelerating and the front tyre is made to withstand the forces of braking, these forces are opposite to each other so the tread pattern is opposite on each tyre.

[@Halcyon737]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the reversed grooves on the front tyre just scoop the water from the edges of the front tyre and "push" it forward to the centre of the front tyre? The complete opposite of what the rear tyre is doing. I'm now more confused than satisfied with the "explanations/answers". 😢

[@mobi1etone]

I've just had a new pair of on/off road tyres fitted on my scrambler, and the front grooves are the 'right' way round. < both < pointing forwards to expel the crud. His explanation only works if it never rains or you avoid all mud/gravel etc.

[@dmv118]

I've thought about it a bit, and my opinion on this matter is that since it's a motorcycle tyre, it's fairly round as opposed to a car's tyre where it is flatter. So, if there's standing water on the road, there's not a lot of water going into the contact patch really when the bike's moving. Of course, when you want to change directions on a motorcycle, you got to lean, right? That's where the grooves mainly come into play. Since the outside grooves go toward the center, it's technically the correct direction now, making sure the contact patch on the outer parts of the tyre is secure. Last thing, since it's a motorcycle, the front brake is used 90% of the time to stop the bike. The front tyre is taking all of that deceleration forces, and with the direction of the grooves, it'll be more efficient at taking those forces.

[@GIGABACHI]

@@dmv118 your explanation it's a little "murky" but I think you nailed it more less.

[@robertheinkel6225]

Years ago my friend had the dealer install new tires on his bike. It didn’t like the rain at all. I noticed the tread was backwards. The dealer reinstalled the tire correctly, and problem solved. Always install the tires according to the directional arrow on the tire.

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

Thank you! I've been wondering this for years. I run a rear tire on the front of my bike since my front tire is 160/60 18in and its impossible to find a proper front. So I got an ADV 90/10 150/70zr18 tire on the front. I have it mounted in reverse to match the reversed pattern, and now I know why people recommend running rear tires on front in reverse.

[@elis51501]

I just replaced the tires on my Drzsm yesterday and was confused by this due to the arrows on the tires showed the front backwards from the back, now I know, and thanks for the explanation:)

[@user-ju7dx8mu6d]

Those are treads on the sides of the rain tires. Sipes are cuts or fine grooves used to improve traction, primarily on ice.

[@Mindroll_M]

This was not what I expected to want to know at 2am in the night but it was one of those questions that popped up in my head like 2 weeks ago and now I know. Very well made video and interesting to watch. I like the more "casual" approach on giving information.

[@andresbonifacio9101]

Also to be perfectly sure before installing a tyre, check the arrow direction in the tyre itself. It will tell you which side should be pointing forward.

[@ronzacc1]

HOW? THe arrow points FRONT. is that at the bottom or the top of tire rotation?????

[@MrFlyagaric]

Great! Thanks! I've been wondering about this. Motorcycle tyres are so much better than they were 50 yrs ago

[@ArtiGamerYT]

You informed, enlightened, ILLUMINATED ME

[@sinnataggen78]

Well, this made me aware that my front tire actually is mounted the wrong way. Thanks

[@christopherscott7747]

Recognized the voice and immediately subscribed. Good youtubers be hiding secondary channels.

[@silverianjannvs5315]

Valentino Rossi, guess I

[@chriscorkas]

That was completely new to me. Great content as well in your new channel. Thank you.

[@tonyb7748]

After riding BMX, Motocross and Drag bikes I was also lost as to why cruisers and sport bikes have the "reversed" tread carvings. But after seeing the directional arrow on one in person I regress as the manufacturer makes them that way for this exact reason.

[@danebrewer10]

Interesting, I knew generally why the tyre is on"backwards" , the braking force being the opposite of the main force that the rear experiences, in acceleration, but not about why the tread pattern curves around like that thanks 👌🏻

[@Corn8Bit]

I was JUST wondering this yesterday. Cheers!

[@MeTubing]

Weird!!!! I just experienced this “backwards” tire install mistake last night. 😂

[@tolok377]

The info to reinforce reality of why breaking by front and back wheels are dramatically different 🎉

[@MihalisNavara]

Some tires can be installed on either direction, depending if it's going to be put on the front or rear wheel.

[@robinwells8879]

Thanks for answering the question I was always too embarrassed to ask! I still think that it may funnel surface water into the centre of the tyre contact patch and promote aqua planning but I see the logic now.

[@VroomNDoom2602]

Glad I stuck to my guns and trusted the arrow on the side of the tire instead of matching the tread to the rear/what I think looks good. Thank you for the video.

[@stuartho]

Thanks for your video. I got new tyres on the bike yesterday so now I’m ready with an answer for the inevitable question 😂

[@CajunReaper95]

What the riders experience on a wet surface is known as hydroplaning it happens to both cars and motorcycles well really anything capable of 35+ mph and can be a sketchy situation if not prepared even then it’s dangerous as hell and potentially deadly!

[@REDLINERUNNER]

Thank you! Now I understand. I was so confused though..

[@bernardmt7090]

Front opposite only 1 benefit which is for braking in wet surface. If u take a Tyre and put it above ur head n see how braking the V will be in the correct direction pushing out water thus reduce aquaplanning n provide more traction grip braking in wet. Thts all. But if riding it a sacrifice slightly. U can't win at all areas I guess. 😅

[@brant22156]

In rainy days, will water accumulate under the front tires?

[@Halcyon737]

That was my exact thought too, because the grooves are facing the opposite direction which will direct water to the centre of the front tyre. From what I can visualise. 🫤

[@upnorth5465]

Any tire will to some extent. That being said I've ran 85 mph in the down pouring rain with road 6's and still felt glued to to road. So they definitely do their job when facing the correct direction.

[@PaulPrice-u7u]

Wow so simple and clear. Makes perfect sense. Thx for sharing.

[@observingrogue7652]

I already kind of knew this. The rear pattern is designed to dig in and move debris & water away, under acceleration, and the front tire is designed to do the same, under braking. And usually because of load transfer on the suspension. The front tire is pushed into the ground under braking, and the rear is pushed into the ground under acceleration. So their V shaped or /slash patterns give them priority during those conditions. My problem is, I love & design All Wheel Drive or 2x2 motorcycles, like Christini, Baltmotors Bulldog, or any homemade electric bike with two hubmotors. On top of torque bias front and rear under acceleration and linked brakes bias, like Regenerative Braking front & rear. On top of maintaining traction or at least tire contact with suspension & aero designs. Have I have to think about what is the best tire pattern right for me, and where I plan to ride, because AWD bikes are very rare, and I don't know yet if I should just use a completely symetrical pattern front and rear. But this video is very helpful in my decisions. Thank you.

[@rienkhoek4169]

It is you! Why not on your regular channel?

[@druscanam]

But what does it mean when your front tyre has the same directional pattern as the rear?

[@docimastic]

Great and informative video, thank you so much. Got me to subscribe, that's how good I thought it was! Stay well and ride safe!

[@fajarfly]

Thank you for the information, now I have faith in backward pattern 😂

[@mosca3289]

May the force be with you.

[@MarcoTernavasio-pv3ec]

Because front tyre works in brake, rear tyre works in acceleration, so the design must be opposite at the grip. Some people on cars reverse front snow tyres for have more grip in brake than in acceleration.

[@justintime802]

Nicely explained, thank you!

[@josephbutler1925]

Very clear and useful - as usual!

[@cust89]

This is an excellent explanation and video! Thanks!

[@peterwoodham769]

I have wondered that for some time. Thanks😊

[@danytheunicorn95]

thank you, always wondered about this

[@alexanderscott2567]

If you have 4wd, you have to mount the tires across the rims. this is the only way to evacuate water from the treads.

[@recorpse9698]

even so, would it not make the front tire worse in wet weather due to pushing water into the middle of tire?

[@JohnnyD1993]

Bought a motorcycle and after a learning curve I bought new tires. Mounted and balanced them myself. Went to order a new set of tires and chose to verify the size beforehand. I discovered the front tire was mounted.. backwards? I ordered the same tires I already had. I put 12k _hard_ miles on them with my 650r and enjoyed them. This time I mounted them correctly. In heavy rain the bike was far easier to control going into curves or riding in low spots where tires roll through on four wheelers.

[@cripticdestiny]

All tyres come with an arrow on the side indicating which way it must be mounted on your wheel. I Don't see why you'd mount the tyre backwards anyway

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

TL;DW it's mostly for breaking especially in wet

[@billybobbarker3175]

What if I mount a “rear” tire on the front? A nice tire for the front of this bike is hard to find due to the size spec. But if I look at “rear” tires there are lots of choices in that size. So, can I mount a “rear” tire on the front. Why or why not? And would it have to be mounted backwards, V facing other way. Thoughts and comments please.

[@kevinl3455]

Excellent video, thanks!

[@Riddle6EOS]

When i mounted my nee motorcycle tyres, i was puzzled the same way. But figured the tyre manufacturer wouldn't lie. Same happend to my new tyres on my car 😅 thanks for letting us know 🫡

[@ryderphillips4464]

This change was about 8 years ago. I replaced front tire with the same tire, identical, and the mfr. had turned the arrow around only. I assumed they figured out something was wrong.

[@justmechanicthings]

now im questioning should i reverse the tread on the front of my RWD car

[@troyjollimore4100]

It would be something to try! But the car tire is far wider, so getting water out from the middle of the contact patch is probably more important…

[@michaelcaine8311]

Tanks for the brilliant explanation 👍👍

[@andrechagas4549]

Very clear explanation!

[@editpes]

Don't forget about water mitigation while cornering

[@lucascarracedo7421]

Awesome video, as always!

[@cbuzz2371]

Thanks Grue

[@lin_sigartau]

i needed this video, thank you!

[@RevHardt]

Immediately recognised your voice. Immediately subscribed 😂

Thank you 🙏

[@RDCST]

But from water perspective does still worth to install them in reverse? I mean the water is pushed forward instead to push the water away.

[@JJFX-]

The contact area is so small on a bike's front tire that I don't think that'd be as relevant. What matters is that there's channels for the water but the direction of them likely makes little difference compared to a car where there's much more contact area. MAYBE those driving constantly in wet conditions could see some benefit to a front designed the other way around but I doubt it's enough to justify the reasons it's like this to begin with.

[@enoswhitaker7967]

Thanks

[@GGLiEx]

awesome explanation. thanks!

[@MattLitkeRacing]

I mounted my first front tire and didn’t understand why the direction of the tire went that way

[@Al.j.Vasquez]

6:46 is this a real bike with the sprocket outside of the swingarm??

[@pikandroid4898]

It's real, yes. It's a single sided swingarm, eg. VFR800

[@rugershooter5268]

I wondered why, never had anybody say my tire is on backwards, but if someone ever does .......... I'll tell them to look at the direction of turn arrow

[@marsbase3729]

Does this also apply to bike tires? 🤔

[@shremich4583]

i expect that my dealer know how to do it. rear rotation mark front rotation mark front / rear different rotation marks rear tyre with rotation mark but as front tyre, turn it around front tyre with rotation mark but as rear tyre, turn it around

[@robert-wr6md]

Excellent thanks.

[@atsonaga5520]

What will happen if we put front tire in back wheel?

[@Single698]

I always wondered why the tyre shop put my tyres on backwards also, guilty oh dear.

[@rhezeus]

few days ago i was at gas station and this guy complaining about the tire why slides. well it was the rear tire that's installed backward and i said check ur rear tire. its backward and he just realized and pause then blamed the road its slippery..

[@fredericmeunier4860]

very clear ; thks

[@keisuketakahashi3597]

Damn this is gold content . Thank you very much for this explainatuion , I was wondering this for a while why is this pattern reversed.

[@justmechanicthings]

Bike curious guy here, thanks for sharing this

[@JamesWebb-z5n]

The only advantage I see is in braking, where the back tire, the business end, its an advantage to rotate in the least resistance direction.

[@Flat4fun]

Why is this not the case with Road bike bicycle tires? It seems like to me the same principles should apply.

[@alan-sk7ky]

Because the manufacturer put helpful arrows on them indicating direction... And I think they should know better.😉

[@MiamiQuasar]

Thread is for sewing. Tires have treads.

[@nikims_]

Okay, so my tire IS actually on backwards. Lol

[@incorefoysal]

Finally found the answer.

[@fetB]

4:34 source for the clip?

[@IonNight]

Whats the TL:DW on this one?

[@VroomNDoom2602]

The direction of tread grooves is parallel to the forces the tire experiences. Since the rear tire is used for acceleration and the front for braking, they are opposite. Not sure what to say about water, though.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

@@VroomNDoom2602 I was having the same thoughts about the direction of the water. Then on thinking about it, does it really matter what direction the water is directed, as long as it is behind the contact patch?

[@jack002tuber]

All youtubes about motorcycles needs to have a narrator with a russian accent. Why?

[@Xayuap]

dats for breaking

[@SenorDelSol]

You forgot that the tread pattern is also determined by looks.

[@Veloce89]

Where water goes?

[@motoBG12]

Isn't this a guy from motocontrol channel?

[@NewMotoDesign]

At first glance this theory looks plausible but just take a look at a Formula One racing car “wet” front tyre. The pinnacle of tyre technology does the opposite! And it’s not just that it’s a non-leaning tyre because the sipe direction argument still fails.

[@IIARROWS]

Interesting... so electric motorcycles back tyre should be designed a little more "braking" resistance, because of regen.

[@igorotmekanik2463]

applicable for any brand?

[@MrKillervincent]

More for the bike, if you have a small bike like the old Honda cbr 125 it can be hard to find good tyres that small, so you may have to use 2 front tyres but then obviously the arrow on the rear will be on the wrong way round 😂

[@schzx14]

Good job. The accent gave it a little spice.

[@GIGABACHI]

I don't mean to sound rude but all I heard was A LOT OF FLUFF and no real CONCRETE explanation of EXACTLY WHY the "backwards" thread pattern. 🤷‍♂

[@troyjollimore4100]

Then you didn’t understand the explanation. How about this one? The tire company engineers are a heck of a lot smarter than we are, and they say it’s better. So go with that…

[@GIGABACHI]

@@troyjollimore4100 well, yes, evidently l trust the mad bastard's BUT I specifically clicked on this video expecting a simple and straight answer. I didn't get that, just my personal experience. 🤷‍♂️

[@troyjollimore4100]

@@GIGABACHI To summarize, the tread blocks in the tire are engineered to take more forces one way to minimize wear. The rear tire sees the most force going forward, and the front tire sees the most force when going backward (exerting brake pressure).

[@Elbombisima]

Rear tire suffers under acceleration, front tire suffers under braking. These are opposite forces so both tires are designed to withstand these opposite forces. This is why they are "facing" the opposite direction

[@pukedout]

@@troyjollimore4100 straight up exploded his brain

[@Sun_Salt_and_Gasoline]

I run my front tire the opposite way just to spite everyone 🤣