Why Garmin Should Buy GoPro

[@cosmonaut1961]

00:17 GoPro and reliable.... Two opposite words.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

I have found GoPros to be reliable so long as I use suitable memory cards and batteries. I have only had GoPros fail when I tried slow micro sd cards (failed to save video files) and off-brand batteries (random shut downs). So I stick to high speed SanDisk memory cards and OEM GoPro batteries. Never had an issue since.

[@pyro_chip8287]

Sold my hero 10..., I'm all In on DJI now. Got the pocket 3 ,multiple drones, and soon the action 5

[@ThisIsJulianC]

I spend more time with DJI products than GoPro today although that might be unfair given that the range of DJI products I own today is greater than the GoPro range.

[@thetanweerali]

I'm waiting for DJI Osmo Action 5 Pro, I personally prefer the more natural colours on DJI than Go Pro's overly saturated colours.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Looking at the Action 5 that just landed… you might be right

[@thetanweerali]

​@@ThisIsJulianCUnfortunately, it has lower bitrate, HDR is a bit overblown, on Tamara's review textures on wall were less visible on OA5 than on OA4. I think I might go for the OA4 instead.

[@simonwyndham]

@@thetanweerali Did he say what settings he used? A lot of detail can be lost to noise reduction, which can be reduced in the settings. So far during my testing, the Action 5's image has been stellar for its purpose. Another thing to bear in mind is that DJI has often sorted stuff like this out with firmware updates.

[@metromaster2010]

A very interesting take on GoPro. I also am a dedicated GoPro user. I think that GoPro has taken a significant step in the right direction with the changeable (and auto detectable) line of HB lenses. Many amateur photographers/videographers are moving away from the bulky SLR's, and gravitating toward smaller and lighter gear. This of course, is being driven by the smart phone and short format media like Tik-Tok markets. The camera market is approaching a technological plateau, in the sense that, with the short format media, or even KZbin long format, most people are viewing it on their phones, or tablets, not on their 70 inch TV. So there is little point in taking resolutions much higher than 5K, at least for now. In the end I agree with you, that GoPro does need a fresh influx of ideas for the next major technological advance, and a merger with a strong company, (like Garmin) might provide exactly that. This is a great video.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Thanks. I am excited to try the lenses out. Most excited by the anamorphic lens, but we have to wait a little longer for that one, currently stated to be early 2025.

[@billweithman52]

I think Garmin buying GoPro would be a great idea. I love my Garmin Forerunners. Integrated products would be good.

[@bobs-Videos]

I agree with much of your assessment on not doing much to improve the base camera, however, there is one area that GoPro could make a mark: built-in timecode. It has been there since the Hero 7-11 (with GoProLabs firmware), and now standard on Hero 12 and Hero 13. Why is this so important, it makes it possible and easy to do multicam projects. Multicam means selling more than 1 GoPro. I use the timecode feature for my 'non-pro' multcam projects with FutureVideo's Multi-View HD Pro 2, a newcomer in the GoPro application software space. What makes it so special, for example, is that you can mount 2 or more GoPro's back-to-back and record in near perfect sync, and playback all views simultaneously in complete sync without ever going into post-editing software. I can even do my rough-cuts with this software without needing to render. GoPro could take advantage of this feature, because it extends way beyond action sports customer, and can be used for other applications requiring multiple angles.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Timecode support on DJI Osmo Action 5 looks promising

[@westwebb]

I was going to use it on a shoot tomorrow, but I don't have access to the firmware.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

What firmware - GoPro Labs?

[@joshpit2003]

Nick Woodman has a net worth of 1.1B while GoPro has a market cap of ~186M (as of this comment). That means Woodman should have the ability to purchase the whole thing outright, bringing GoPro private again. Considering Woodman is seemingly unwilling to step aside, and unwilling to sell the company, I don't see why he doesn't just take it private again. It would probably mean going down with the ship, but at this point, that is better than losing everyone else's money, having to continue doing layoffs. All that said, I'm still considering the Hero13, coupled with the macro-lens, which I'm convinced could be used as my primary/only lens for pretty much everything. Only downside is the size / weight of the 13 as compared to my Hero 7, which was arguably the best "action" camera they ever created.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

His advisors would probably advise against it right now. For all the reasons we have discussed in this video and these comments, and the fact that the stock has performed very poorly this year.

[@joshpit2003]

@@ThisIsJulianC It's nearing de-listing territory. If it was my baby, and I were worth 1.1B, I'd buy it out just to spare myself of the embarrassment. Buy low right?

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Good point! Agree with you on Hero 7 btw… one of the best for sure 👍

[@MrDecessus]

@@ThisIsJulianC Poor performance means cheap stocks and easier to take private. The alternative is keeps breeding out profits and RD so as to make the camera more and more nitch to the other action cameras in the market. If this continues GoPro will be delisted anyway. Maybe that is what leadership is waiting for.

[@mvp_kryptonite]

My Garmin Virb Ultra 30 is a bit clunky with the cases but I love the native Ant+ integration. Think I have 3 or 4 floating around with plenty of batteries but overall I don’t think people or business upgrade their GoPros every year imo. GoPro should have diversified into other tech long time ago. Bring back the drone and offer a regular and a pro version. Gimbals, a watch, a scale, Bluetooth speaker, bigger mirrorless cameras, home automation with a premium line etc

[@ThisIsJulianC]

There is more that they could do with the brand for sure. The Karma drone dented the bold confidence at GoPro, and absorbed a lot of $ too. If GoPro acquired and integrated a drone tech company then perhaps they could build a credible alternative to DJI. For consumer drones there isn’t a real alternative to DJI right now.

[@WayeOfLife]

Firstly.. I have seen a few of your videos and have loved everyone. And.. we agree on so much here. Never had a GoPro overheat for instance. I bought the 12, but because of GPS I switch back to the 11.. this year I thought.. "if they don't provide a wireless mic solution.. I'm switching".. I really didn't want to because the 8:7 sensor is such a win for me on social media. So we have the 13.. small update (not sure I will make use of the lenses.. and I find that as soon as I remove the removable lens once, I have to be careful because of condensation on the inside ).. but I pre-ordered because I can use the DJI mic2. But.. I think that says a lot.. they made it compatible with a competitors mic rather than making their own mic. For me that is another warning sign

[@applerunner1184]

I partially agree with you, although Garmin seems to be having some similar issues with innovation. For example. The Fenix 8 by all accounts is super slow (lack of processor updates across generations) and the software is buggy. I was super close to a fenix 8 purchase until I read some of the reviews.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Fair point on Fenix 8 I am hearing the same. Garmin is a much more solid company than GoPro with a better/broader portfolio of products, the Fenix 7/7 Pro are awesome. If they have messed up the Fenix 8 firmware they will be able to put it right. I own a Fenix 7X, like you I am holding off purchasing a Fenix 8 for now.

[@jannarkiewicz633]

I started video January 2024... GoPro is not on my radar: Go 3 to Go 3S, X3 to X4, DJI Pocket 2 to DJO Pocket 3 and next up Sony ZV-E1... Why would I add a new eco system?

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Based on that list, I don’t think you need to add anything else 👍

[@gregrunsultras]

Interesting video and like the thought process. Personally I love using my GoPro (Hero 11). My frustrations are often with the software. I think the auto-editing by the Quik app (Android) is fantastic, but often the video fails to export, rendering it completely pointless. So much so, yesterday I took my clips, put them into the Insta360 app and let it do the auto-edit. Alongside 2024 releases, I'm sure the Windows Desktop version of Quik is due in 2024... Clock is ticking... If something happened to my Hero 11 and I needed to replace - I'd not immediately just buy a GoPro, I'd certainly be taking a long look at DJI and Insta360. My last 2 camera purchases were Insta360, I'm just finding their software so much more reliable. I also worry whenever companies introduce multiple subscription tiers - that speaks volumes to me about GoPro having lost their way.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

I find the new GoPro subscription tiers confusing, and feels like an attempt to exploit existing subscribers with an additional feature that should just be added to the existing subscription. It has made me go back to thinking if I really need GoPro Plus. I am not sure I do.

[@gregrunsultras]

@@ThisIsJulianC I've taken out premium plus this year, but only because they offered a deal. I won't be renewing the subscription at all next year though unless things significantly improve. My 11 is working well so I'll keep it going. If anything happens to it, it's hard not to look at the DJI Action and leave gopro behind, sadly.

[@alexweigelhikes]

My thoughts are the they've over invested in the image stabilization (and the processor required for it). The image stabilization, I still think is years ahead of its time. That's been amazing, but it also put them pretty far behind with everything else. They also spent a lot of resources on the cloud storage and app (though with less success). I think now they're playing catch up with the Max 2, hence the two year (three year?) hiatius on any visable innovation. When the Max 2 is unvailed, you'll see that new processor you want. You might even see a bigger sensor. And you'll certainly see the new battery pack that they manged to cram into the 13. (There is just no way that battery didn't come straight out of the Max 2 R&D.) I'm probably going to pick up a 13 just to get the blue glitter off my camera. But the real upgrade will be here with the 14, while the 15 will be the 14 with software fixes.

[@user-uu1ru5de4g]

Dji osmo action 5 pro will take my money .

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Mine arrived this weekend, going to have some fun comparisons with Hero 13

[@hamradioop5777]

Inspiring and nIcely done Julian and your thoughtful and interesting dialogue makes for great and entertaining video too. Garmin certainly need to do something with their cameras and processors in their combined GPS / Dashcam / Rear-cam offerings, as they are too slow and the image quality is simply not good enough to read that number plate of some lunatic whizzing past you on a blind bend. I've not had the good experiences that you have had with GoPro. My cameras froze, overheated and lost footage. If you look at the GoPro's small print, the recent models are not guaranteed to be waterproof. The design faults in their battery doors which allow water ingress, have never been corrected, though maybe they finally have in the 13?

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Thanks!

[@Denverdaytrippers]

I'm not into 360 cameras but from what I understand, the new Gopro 360 Cam has been pushed into 2025. GoPro has also mentioned that they are looking to introduce more camera options for specific user types in 2026(?) They are not really interested in chasing new sensor technology at the moment and have been putting a lot of RD funds towards AI tech for future cameras that are a few years away still. I also think that they are not against a buy out should the right offer come along--their stock price is pretty cheap right now and the brandname recognition is their most valuable asset. It will be purchased sooner rather than later.

[@Jeffro5564]

New GoPro 13 speaks to itself on company not innovating like other action camera brands which leave it behind and people are moving away from GoPro

[@ThisIsJulianC]

GoPro are at a crossroads right now. Have they lost out so much to DJI and Insta360 that it's too late? I hope not, let me know what you think.

[@MrDecessus]

It's not to late the 13 is a compelling action camera and there is much to like but more and more these action cameras are more than just for crazy action middle of the day and that is where GoPro keeps failing.

[@ivo_huth]

What they have to do next? Maybe what they should have done all these years, solve the issues of previous hard and software?

[@ThisIsJulianC]

What’s the hardware issue that you are concerned about

[@ivo_huth]

@@ThisIsJulianC Cracking sound during recording, I guess caused by internal components heating up. It is especially noticeable during the first 5 minutes of a recording. My GoPro was replaced but the replacement was even worse. After that Gopro didn’t want to do anything because I didn’t have an original camera, it is a replacement. WTF? At the end and after a lot of complaining I got an audio adapter so I could connect an external mic. Looking at the messages on forums I wasn’t the only one with that problem, it was never solved.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Sorry to hear that, haven’t experienced it, can’t offer any suggestions.

[@EternalMedia]

GoPro is dirt poor. Their stock is less than $2 per share. They don't have much in cash reserves. Contrast that with DJI and Insta360 who are flush with cash. Also remember that GoPro's competitors have multiple products in circulation. GoPro is currently a one product company, and that one product isn't the best in industry. What GoPro desperately needs is a private equity firm takeover. They should be making household surveillance systems, drones (again), mirrorless rugged cameras, etc. If that doesn't happen, then an outright takeover by a large wealthy American corporation like Hewlett-Packard, Apple or Google, needs to happen. GoPros days are otherwise numbered. Insta360 and DJI are running laps around them.

[@thetanweerali]

DJI has unlimited China money, you can't beat that.

[@planetguam8475]

GoPro had their chance. They we’re top dog with big pockets. Money wasn’t wisely invested to expand into other markets. Their attempt at the drone market failed due to being rushed, and poor management.

[@MrDecessus]

Equity firm would take that company apart and sell it off.

[@MrDecessus]

@@thetanweerali Not really, though lots of politician whish it was so. The reality is that DJI is and has been innovating for years and is serious in what their products do. GoPro has had some great products but wallstreet has siffen most of its cash.

[@MoneyPitCastle]

I dont think gopro has the money to hire the best people and research in order to do this. The last useful upgrade was the 8:7 resolution on gopro 11.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Sadly I agree that development funds appear to be limited.

[@SamtheStoic87]

Nice video and voice. I think that it's almost impossible to keep up with chinese industries that most likely are supported by the chinese government (see huawei, honor) and can rely on cheap labour.... But, there's a but: I still love GoPro. I recently bought a Gopro 11 (instead of the 12), sold my Dji action 4 (it was good, but I didn't like the photos... And I needed some quick cash). Long life to Gopro

[@hawaiifreespeechnews]

GoPro should be at least at 5.3k 120 fps and 6k 60fps by this point

[@MrDecessus]

GoPro been public is its biggest problem now a days. Like to many American companies this leads to little money for RD and innovation. It's not its only problem but just one of many.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

If it was in private hands again maybe there would be more focus on R&D and innovation, although there is no guarantee that would happen.

[@JohnIn2SonAZ]

I think a camera company needs to acquire GoPro.

[@Jeffro5564]

Apple needs to buy it and then innovate it hahahahahaha

[@MrDecessus]

@@Jeffro5564 Waste of money for apple.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Agree with this. There would be very little that Apple would gain from acquiring GoPro that they could not develop internally.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Which one

[@thegixlad27]

What they need to do next? Innovate.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Definitely a gap right now. I have the Hero 13 Black and it feels like a Hero 12. And a Hero 11.

[@UpIn_Berlin]

I think the opposite, GoPro needs to go all in and buy (lack of capital?)/partner with ZeroZero Robotics, the brand behind Hover X1. Autonomous drones are the natural evolution of action cams. As you said, they tried it in the past with no success, so an alliance makes sense.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

I like the idea. GoPro is still investing, see other comment about the Forcite acquisition earlier this year. I am hoping ZeroZero do well with the X1, it looks like it is a hit.

[@idka4523]

GoPro isn't doing anything to change their market position. They're still doing the same things they were 5 years ago

[@MrDecessus]

Sure they are, they did with the 13. But like every action camera out there, they have their specific markets. DJI is a good but not as great action camera as GoPro but it can do other things GoPro struggles with and their UI is large and just well designed. Insta360 Pro is the king of low light shooting. That seems something they are very proud of.

[@simonwyndham]

GoPro doesn't really have the same vast resources as a company like DJI. I think what you'll find is that any major new change is being held up by two things. Firstly, the availability of a new 8x7 sensor. Currently, GoPro is using the only sensor of its type in the Sony range, and if an updated one isn't forthcoming then there might be problems going forward. GoPro will either need to change back to a camera that can't shoot the 8:7 or 1:1 ratios, or it'll need to hold onto the current sensor. Holding onto the current sensor might not be such an issue if the second problem is solved, and that's the production of a GP3 processor. The processor is currently the thing that is seriously holding GoPro's cameras back. The GP2 uses a 10nm process, and it's this processor that is the reason why battery life and thermal performance is falling behind competitors. There's a camera that will be available soon that will blow your mind with battery performance, and it's due greatly to the processor design. Any GP3 processor really needs to be using a 5nm or less manufacturing process. These things can be plagued with delays, though. The HERO9, which was probably the most unreliable GoPro, was supposed to be the first camera to have the GP2, but it wasn't ready in time, so the GP1 ended up being pushed right to the limits, and it showed. As an aside, I'm testing the 13 at the moment, and it's been very reliable so far. But, I do wonder if the battery design and new body weren't just a change for change sake. The new battery has improved things, but I do wonder if the 13 was originally supposed to have the GP3, but it just wasn't ready in time, much like the HERO9 with the GP2. Regarding the 1" sensor, we don't need it. I know a lot of people online call for it, but a 1" sensor will never happen. Why? Firstly, a 1" sensor DOF characteristics make close focus impossible on a fixed focus camera (autofocus won't be added either because that entails mechanical parts, which can go very wrong under many of the scenarios GoPros are used for). GoPros stick with sub-1" sensors for a reason, and it's mainly because the DOF characteristics don't suit the purpose. You only have to look at how Insta360's 1-inch Mod was panned because people couldn't vlog with it easily due to arms length focus issues. Secondly, a 1" sensor is going to need a much bigger lens to keep the field of view the same. An action camera's primary purpose is stuff like immersive wide POVs. There are so many issues with a 1" sensor that will compromise the use scenarios that a GoPro is mainly designed for that it'll never happen. I've spoken with GoPro directly about this in the past. Low light use is such a niche application that, while it's nice to have, it's not something GoPro would compromise all other main use case scenarios for just to have a large sensor. Regarding another company acquiring GoPro, I fully understand that this would seem the thing to do. In fact a number of years ago I believe this was going to happen if memory serves. It would be a shame though. If you've had any dealings with GoPro and met the people there, you'll find a very ethical company, that treats its employees like a family. It's a very "un-corporate" company to deal with, and many of its top people are adventure sports participants, including Woodman himself. Despite the layoffs this year, it regularly comes top of lists of best companies in the world to work for, and I can see why. So any take over by a big corporation would make it just another faceless tech company. So while it might be inevitable eventually, it would be a great shame. But, it could be done in a similar way to how Nikon bought Red. BTW, DJI doesn't own all of Hasselblad, but does have the controlling share of it.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Some interesting thoughts here. I like your overview of the sensor market which makes sense. Although the GoPro image and marketing is focused on action sports and activities, the majority of sales are to consumers who are not as active as the promotional marketing. In order to appeal to the served market (vacations, kids etc) low light performance is a need. GP3 processor… completely agree. Hero 9 was terrible for the delay of GP2. I do not want to see a corporate (or PE) buy out of GoPro that would damage the culture but in that situation it would be likely. I do believe that an acquisition is needed now to ensure GoPros ongoing relevance and potentially, its survival. DJI have a majority (controlling) stake in Hasselblad, now regarded as a subsidiary of DJI.

[@simonwyndham]

@@ThisIsJulianC Sorry for another long message! Regarding the majority of sales, I'd be interested to know the true use case figures. I was shown the demographics once last year, but I have a memory like a sieve! I think the important thing to bear in mind is that GoPro does know its primary market and it's very switched onto it, and contrary to what some on forums think, the people behind it aren't stupid. The subject of lowlight did come up when I did an event with them last year, and I was told that the cameras are primarily designed and tuned for shooting in good light, although they understand there can be a need for lowlight in some cases, but they regard it as very niche. The reality is that a larger sensor would still create too many issues for what GoPro sees as its primary uses. For example, without the super wide lens, which is needed for POV, and which would need to be much larger on a 1" sensor camera to retain the angle of view, that's pretty much all of the MTB, surfing and other POV based markets lost to DJI. Same with a camera that has a lens on the front and back. By doing that, the camera will end up with a tiny touch screen like the ONE RS, or as a much larger camera. There would also be much more battery drain, and possibly worse thermal performance due to the need for extra processing on one chip, or the addition of two processors. Despite 360 not being the intention, the design of the camera would still take on aspects of a 360 device, so it might as well be 360 from the off. But with regard to the MAX 2 specifically, the Ultra Wide mod (and previously the MLM 2.0) bodes well for the quality of image from any new 360 camera. Those lens mods are effectively one half of a 360 camera at 177-degrees FOV, and they can record it in 4K, meaning a potential 8K 360 image to crop into. For me, the X4 is the wrong form factor for most situations I would want to use it in, whereas the ONE RS worked out much easier to mount in different scenarios. So if the MAX 2 is similar to the MAX in terms of form factor, it'll be much more versatile for mounting in different scenarios than the vertical form of the X4. You'll also have a true log profile with GP-log and 10-bit recording, which you don't have in the X4. Unfortunately, we are bound by the laws of physics with regards to sensor sizes, power etc. Although, with lowlight, a lot could be done using the same sensor, but with a much faster 5nm chip or lower, which would be far more power frugal, as well as offering much more scope for advanced noise reduction (which is what Insta360 and DJI does). To conclude another lengthy message (sorry again!) Woodman is on record as saying that he doesn't think the benefits of the company's growth strategy will show fruits until late 2025, which is when they expect to debut the motorcycle helmet products.

[@MrDecessus]

@@simonwyndham I can see and concure a bigger sensor is not that important though they could try a bit harder to deal with the low light ability of the camera. That said if the people buying GoPro are not as interested in low light then they are going to put RD into other things. The GPS returning is great something that the other action cameras do not have built in.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

DJI are putting a lot of focus on the low light modes and capability of the new Osmo Action 5. Although it’s not a feature needs for most action footage I maintain that the majority of GoPros are purchased and used for more regular capturing of life, family, vacations, pets and travel. For that, low light is a need, best served with larger sensors.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

I have a lot of time for Woodman but he has made a lot of promises over the (more recent) years that have not come to fruition or have been heavily delayed.

[@Blackirish__]

I agree and trying to stay loyal to GoPro as they were the 1st but Chinese tech seems unstoppable look at DJI for example especially the drones no one can compete, ND filters sort of a thing of the past don’t you think as software is just getting more powerful. I heard GoPro are going into helmet integration and have bought into a helmet company if so they may dominate,,,,,until Chinese tech copy and better for cheaper yet again 🤔

[@ThisIsJulianC]

Good point on the helmet investment - GoPro acquired Forcite in January, to support helmet tech integration.

[@Blackirish__]

@@ThisIsJulianC yes I think they have different plans I certainly hope they don’t fold and the action can market will only get bigger and more competitive, within 2 years they will all work as dash cams so they don’t sit on the shelf collecting dust, the Insta ones already do

[@Voyagerss77]

Dji action osmos 5, much much better, Who cares about gopro

[@thetanweerali]

That's what I'm getting.

[@MrDecessus]

Something not even out yet. So who knows how much better it will be. Though DJI does have a great UI for sure.

[@thetanweerali]

@@MrDecessus Action 4 was great! They're on the right track that's for sure, only time will tell.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

DJI are definitely winning the innovation wars for action cameras right now

[@AnthonyJoh]

Best thing GoPro could do is fire Nick Woodman. With the company's stock at an all time low and no innovation in a long time, it's obvious that the CEO has no clue what to do.

[@ThisIsJulianC]

GoPro is not innovating, if that is through a lack of push from the CEO then I agree. I think however it's more likely that there is not enough $$ being invested to drive new innovation. The Hero 13 and even the Hero 12 feel like not a lot of investment dollars have gone in to them. I have spent the last week with Hero 13 and Action 5 Pro.... TL; DR - the OA5 is very compelling.