Why Great Flood would DOOM the Zora || Wind Waker

[@TheBreadPirate]

Finally! A bite-sized Draken video. :D And it makes way more sense that the gods were SAVING the zora instead of punishing them.

[@Drakenwild]

I knew you'd like it! :D

[@tomfool5460]

Hello Mr. Pirate! Glad to see you have good taste, not only in food but also in KZbinrs!

[@planetoforts]

Hi both of you

[@myleswelnetz6700]

The shortest ones are around 15 minutes long.

[@fishnewt1331]

It’s funny to me how the Wind Waker paints a completely new picture of the Golden Goddesses. Like, in most tellings, we are told they are omnipotent and mostly good given their opposition to Ganondorf. But Wind Waker having their homes literally destroyed off of a singular threat, forcing change at the possible cost of untold lives. It’s fascinating to think about.

[@javiervasquez625]

Taking into consideration the apparent notion that the creation of a third timeline where Link dies was directly attributed to the Golden Goddesses desiring *3* specific timelines to exist in order to represent each one of the 3 goddesses (Adult for Nayru/Wisdom, Child for Farore/Courage and Downfall for Din/Power) it paints the otherwise benevolent creator deities in a darker light given their willingness to let a messianic figure to die at the hands of a satanic being all so that Din may also have a timeline of her own. Truth be told it's been a while since i've pondered wether the Golden Goddesses might not be as benevolent and empathetic to the mortals of the Zelda world as one may be lead to assume.

[@aikenlau2500]

I feel like the Zora themselves could survive in both freshwater and saltwater and would technically not die of osmosis- there is one story in BoTW saying that Sidon killed a giant Octorok in saltwater Hateno Bay. Instead, another plausible explanation for divine intervention could be the mass destruction of aquatic ecosystems as the aforementioned problems would impact most aquatic species even if the Zora were tolerant of the change. As (presumably) Zora predominantly depend on fish and aquatic creatures in their environment to survive, the mass upheaval caused by the ecosystem collapses would probably lead to the Zora dying of starvation.

[@Drakenwild]

That is also a plausible explanation for the intervention, yes!

[@javiervasquez625]

According to Oracle of Ages it would appear that the Zora _are_ in fact able to survive in deep ocean salt water as the Zora's Domain from the land of Labrynna is located at sea far away from the land's shore. That said it's always possible that Labrynna's Zora could be a seperate "breed" of Zora similar to the enemy Zora from the earlier games as an explanation for why they're allowed to breath salt water while their Hyrulean counterparts cannot.

[@insanemakaioshin]

2:57 - Oracle of Ages is also an exception. Most of the friendly Zora are called "Sea Zora", while the enemies encountered in the Downfall Timeline are "River Zora." It's more likely that the Rito are like Salmon & the real threats were Ganon's sea monsters, like Big Octos & Octoroks. Protecting the Zora from demonic predators would be a type of Damage Control.

[@Cretaceous158]

The sea Zora are separate from the OoT zora, who are the river Zora. The downfall timeline river Zora are corrupted. The ocean Zora have longer lives lives than the OoT Zora and the Rito. The only exception of freshwater Zora having longer lifespans is the Wild duology, where they could have bred with the ocean Zora.

[@Kokally]

In games past there have been two separate Zora species, River Zoras who were generally hostile, and Sea Zora who were more peaceful. It's possible that Zora in general just have a lot of genetic diversity. But frankly I'm not as worried about Fish turning into Birds as I am Kokiri turning into plants. Plants that are insistent on hiding themselves all over the place and then handing you "seeds" when find them...

[@linkzellda]

That Is A Very Solid Argument. I have my own theory about the Zora's disappearance. One of my theories is that Ganondorf wiped out the Zora, since it was mentioned that Ganondorf attacked Hyrule, so it's easy to assume that Ganondorf decided to wiped out the Zora Races and that the Grand Floor just wiped out the remaining Zora. My other theory is that the Zora survived, but since the Royal Family no longer exists, the Zora are no longer tied to them, so they are free to explore the vast new ocean, so the Zora immigrated elsewhere to found their own kingdom somewhere far away. My other theory is that since Wind Waker has so many Cut-Contents in fact there is one island that the player never gets to see as it's in ruins by the time you arrive; Greatfish Isle. One of three islands visited in by the player in an attempt to locate the Goddess Pearls, and Greatfish Isle was home to the water Spirit Jabun. Just as Dragon Roost Island with the Sky Spirit Valoo, and Forest Haven with the Guardian of the Forest Great Deku Tree. Each each islans is associated with a characteristic with common element: as Dragon Roost Island is fire, and Forest Haven is wind. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Greatfish Island was going to play a role in the story with a Water Temple with the Zora, but since the Water Temple was removed, Greatfish Island had no use. So, with the Water Temple removed and Greatfish Island serving no purpose, it's possible that the Zoras were removed as well, but since Nintendo hasn't revealed any Zora artwork for Wind Waker, it's hard to know if they were planning to include them in the first place. I know some people will tell me that Zora evolved into Rito, but I refuse to believe it because unlike the Koroks who in-game were confirmed to be the Kokiri since the Great Deku Tree and the Koroks themselves confirmed that they used to have human forms, Fado confirmed this connection, and the Koroks confirmed that the Forbidden Woods was once their home. But none of that happened to Rito, as no NPC has mentioned that Rito used to have aquatic forms, and neither Laruto confirmed their connections, so since there's no in-game confirmation for this, I'll be skeptical about it. But I'm also fully aware that the Zelda Franchise, along with Digimon and Pokémon Franchise, suffer from translation errors, and many people who make Zelda theories only use the English version. So if you know anyone who actually shows the difference between the Japanese and English versions of Zelda games like Wind Waker, please let me know. (*Note*: Do not show me links to the person channel or videos, KZbin no longer allows links in comment section, they will immediately delete your comment for it. Just type the channel name and I will search for it myself.)

[@bdk336]

It's possible that the Zora COULD be adaptable but even in that case it doesn't mean their primary food would survive. What do you think about the fact that there are confirmed to be other groups of Zora somewhere in Tears of the Kingdom and that Sidon is the childhood friend/betrothed to one? Like where are they located if not the ocean and how do they interact with each other?

[@Drakenwild]

Tbh, it is something I didn't quite think about when writing this? ^^' But given that Zora are humanoid they would need to live with the access to land in order to build their structures, so they could be on a river on some island across the sea? If they live on the shore like Termina Zora, then Yona should start having a very bad time really soon. If they live on a river, mayhaps they had some sort of an aid in crossing the sea? Be it magic or a straight up ship? Either that, or Zora can switch like salmon and the thesis of the video was wrong. It gave me the excuse to mention mudskippers though, so that's a win!

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

Zora Link was able to breathe in both fresh water and salt water despite being, presumably, physiologically indistinguishable from Mikau.

[@TheBreadPirate]

Are Termina Zora the same? It's hard to say. She addresses this briefly at 2:56.

[@Drakenwild]

What Bread said.

[@javiervasquez625]

Didn't the Zora from Labrynna in Oracle of Ages live in the ocean? That should serve as evidence that _some_ Zora in Hyrule's dimension (not necessarily those native to Hyrule) are indeed able to breath both fresh as well as salt water.

[@Cretaceous158]

@@javiervasquez625The ocean Zora have 1 big difference to the OoT Zora besides location, the lifespan. The Rito are at the same stage of magic evolution as each other, and it was only a couple centuries later, which the ocean Zora would have been around for that long, and the Rito would have more Zora-like inhabitants in addition to the normal Rito. Ruto also seems to age at the same speed as Link.

[@ItatsuMagnatsa]

In Majora's Mask, the Zora live in the Ocean. In BotW, there is a Story about Sidon going to Luren Village and Killing a Giant Octorok, in the Ocean. This Story I think you can read on one of those Stone Tablets for a Quest in Zora's Domain that are scattered about.

[@mitwhitgaming7722]

Interestingly, Yona in TotK would imply that some Zora are like salmon since she is from another Kingdom, supposedly in the ocean.

[@Drakenwild]

We don't really know where that kingdom is but given that Zora are humanoid and like to build fancy structures and wear metal, I would assume they have access to land.

[@planetoforts]

​@@DrakenwildI agree. She is wearing gold unlike the silver for the rest of Zora's Domain.

[@cupkelpie4656]

Your theory very elegantly sidesteps the entire debate about the "fishless Great Sea" as in whether that phrase should be taken literally or not. I've always assumed that the water is uninhabitable to anything that isn't a demon or spirit (like the fishmen) and never considered how it could be an issue simply by being too salty. (Also there is no proper sea bed, which is a problem as well.)

[@javiervasquez625]

As i understand it when Ganondorf "sees" Tetra's/Zelda's dream he's only explaining what she's dreaming without outright confirming the Great Sea to be devoid of any fish life for the denizens of the Great Sea to catch and eat. Since i find it hard to believe that the Golden Goddesses would willingly extinguish all aquatic life in order to force the Zora to evolve into the Rito i feel it's more plausible that regular fish do in fact exist and we simply weren't allowed to see any.

[@Drakenwild]

Yep, the Great Flood would kill off majority of fish, leaving only those that can live in brackish water conditions to begin with (and the ones that can adjust).

[@amendersc1650]

always fun when a theory on a video game is based on something i actually learned in school recently

[@Drakenwild]

This video was honestly just an excuse to talk about some neat fish facts for a little bit.

[@myleswelnetz6700]

0:10 The Rito evolved from an avian dinosaur people, not directly from the Zora. That much is for sure.

[@Cretaceous158]

The Rito definitely came from the Zora, but the dinosaur phase between them is just a theory by the fans.

[@EPadraigM]

The way fish work is so fascinating!! Wonderful video!

[@Drakenwild]

I'm gonna be honest with you, having an excuse to talk about fish is a secret, third reason I made this video!

[@myleswelnetz6700]

I find it ironic that a group of fish people would die from dehydration during a flood.

[@Drakenwild]

Fish are weird man.

[@myleswelnetz6700]

Meanwhile, the Gorons and the Gerudo continued to thrive despite their old lives being miles underwater.

[@Juanyourfriend]

This is made me think about it and well it’s kinda true nice vid loved it❤

[@Drakenwild]

Thank you!

[@Khorteka]

I like the video, but growing up playing the Oracle games, I have to mention that the Sea Zoras actually live in the Zora Sea in Oracle of Ages. (400 years in the past and in the present.)

[@Starcat5]

Wait. Weren't the Zora in Oracle of Ages found in the Zora Sea? As in, salt water? Regardless of how you view Majora's Mask, that still leaves a canon group of Saltwater Zora. I stand on the hill that says that the BotW/TotK Zora are descended from these (formerly) Saltwater Zora, while the Rito are descended from Freshwater Zora as seen in WW. I won't *DIE* on this hill, but I will do a fighting retreat if I have to.

[@Drakenwild]

I haven't played Oracle games :c Fake Zeldatuber, I know!

[@Cretaceous158]

The BotW/TotK Zora are likely a result of breeding between the Zora that fled to New Hyrule, and left, and the ones from Labrynna. We find Ruto crowns in New Hyrule, but no Zora. Sidon states he is a descendant of Ruto, but has a much longer lifespan and aging process than the Zora that formerly inhabited Hyrule, but the Zora from the coast of Labrynna have long lifespans.

[@happysmilesworldandgames8755]

3:14 dragons scales that make wings also dont make sense, so...

[@M2DaZi]

Yup, you've convinced me

[@Sam_T2000]

seems more likely they’d just evolve to survive in salt water (like in _Majora’s Mask)_ than turn into bird people… also, are we even sure* the Great Sea is even saltwater? I wish we had still met some Zora in _Wind Waker…_ they could’ve had some lore like “there are too many monster to go into the deep water,” or “there’s an impassable murk that keeps us from reaching the sea floor.” _also!_ _Twilight Princess_ showed us that Gorons don’t need to breathe air to survive… so how awesome would it have been to have an underwater Goron civilization, with a Goron-themed water dungeon? maybe the rest of the population thinks the Gorons have gone extinct, only for Link to discover them once again late in the game?

[@Cretaceous158]

Maybe Gorondia was where the Gorons lived in the Great Sea.

[@Sam_T2000]

@@Cretaceous158 - what’s that? I’ve heard the name, but can’t remember where… I just think it would’ve been really cool to see the Gorons in a new environment, one that’s not just a barren volcano land… kinda like their snowy mountain in _MM._

[@Cretaceous158]

@@Sam_T2000 Gorondia is the area under Death Mountain in TotK. The Gorons are said to have come from there.

[@Sam_T2000]

@@Cretaceous158 - oooooooh, yeah, I remember now!

[@notmaifox]

it is confirmed that there is magic at play. A dragon did it *Saxophone music*

[@soundpatriot5274]

I remember hearing that the great sea in windwaker was more like a dead sea. There are no fish it. No life. So zora wouldn't have any food in it to survive. Oxygen would also be a problem. Without oxygen in the water, fish would also drown. Which isn't a HUGE problem for zora, cause they can get oxygen from the air, but it will still limit there time underwater.

[@badtransistions]

There are a few Zora that hang around saltwater in BoTW, so shouldn’t they be dead?

[@Drakenwild]

Where? The only time I can recall them coming near to the sea was in Champion's Ballad but they didn't actually swim in it.

[@cato3277]

I'm sure, like a hylian / human, zora can temporarily swim through salty water without needing to breathe it in. Living in it would be q whole new ballgame.

[@TheBreadPirate]

I don't remember seeing Zora in the oceans around Hyrule in Breath of the Wild.

[@badtransistions]

@@Drakenwild There was one on a shore near lurelin

[@badtransistions]

@@cato3277 yeah makes srnse

[@quinnwhitsitt]

how fast did the great flood occur how long did it reach its full size

[@SharpieWaterOfficial]

What about the sea Zora in the gameboy games?

[@quinnwhitsitt]

but some fish can live in fresh or salt water such as bullsharks

[@RespawnGod]

While I'm of the opinion that Zora are potentially mix water fish the rapid change in eco system I could see still effecting them, however there is also reason to believe the great sea isn't real as they mention a lack of actual fish in windwaker (despite the five atleast variations of sea life we see) and a character mentions it's an illusion at some point (wind waker lore stresses my brain out so I'm not to good at sourcing these quotes sorry) there is reason to believe that Zora also breed outside of their race or atleast attempt to given atleast two have been romantically attached to a hero at different points so it could be that simply medli was a decendant of a Zora, Zora's seeking refuge on death mountain never made sense to me either, it should be noted that in a sequel game of windwaker Zora Relics can be found in the sea of new hyrule so Zora could have simply migrated too, Rito of the Windwaker era in general stand out to me as physically more likely to be Sheikah descendants with red eyes and largely white haired along with their physical form looking more like a Hylian or shiekah with a beak rather than a zora with a beak

[@javiervasquez625]

If you're talking about Tetra's/Zelda's dream as described by Ganondorf i've always seen his description of her dream as merely a representation of Tetra's perception of the Great Sea as a place "ridden with death" sort of speak due to how little dry land there was for it's many inhabitants to populate and settle on. Her dream represents her longing for the day when the people of the Great Sea no longer have to struggle in tiny islands devoid of resources. With this interpretation in mind it's certainly plausible that marine life is very much still intact during the events of The Wind Waker and we players are simply never allowed to see it.

[@RespawnGod]

@@javiervasquez625 honestly I'm not too sure anymore recently watching my friend stream it and I seem to be hearing new things I must have disregarded as a child, it's all a tad messy lore wise for me

[@Iceecat123]

Nooooo! Not my precious Mipha! She wouldn’t surviiiiiiive!!!😭

[@Cretaceous158]

She may be part ocean Zora. She has the long life of one, or at least would have if she wasn’t already dead.

[@generaltechnomage306]

While we're on the topic of the Zora, I gotta ask: Have you ever had a hard time figuring out an individual Zora's gender just by looking at them? I tend to have a hard time with that; sometimes I have to look at a Zora's name or hear their voice to determine their genders. Sure they have some differences in appearances, but those tend to be minor. Which brings me to another thing: I think the reason that the Zora practice gender equality is because they're a bit lacking in sexual dimorphism (though not as much as many reptiles in real life, the Ashdar from Stars in Shadow, or especially the Kett from Mass Effect).

[@Drakenwild]

I never had an issue telling them apart, women have a visibly more slender frame and tend to have softer curves on their head shark tail thingies. That said, yeah, I dig your idea, the lack of dimorphism would very likely prompt the culture to be more gender equal.

[@TheKingOfMadness-ez1oi]

Ea sports

[@javiervasquez625]

It's in the game.

[@gundamwarrior]

Though I think there was somewhere in the lore stated the great sea's water was uninhabitable by anything aside monsters and fishmen due to it also being magical in nature. Since it was not natural water to begin with, fresh or salt. It was basically illusory water up until the final wish by the king at the end of the game that actually brought in real water at the end which most likely was salt. So the change for the Zora already happened well before the real water was brought in by the kings last wish by hundreds upon hundreds of years. So i think the evolutionary change was more meant to ensure they didn't die because there was no actual real water to sustain them in the first place in great quantities. Though it begs the question where the zora that stayed zora ended up moving to since they were unseen in TWW completely aside a sages spirit.

[@happysmilesworldandgames8755]

2:05 the fish dies of hoenn critics

[@Squidglows]

Are we gonna ignore whatever 2:29 this is Fish that can climb trees is some apocalypse type stuff that I am not prepared for

[@Drakenwild]

It's called a mudskipper. It lives in rivers by the coast, where water level rises and falls with the tide of the ocean. But the rising tide means larger predators can enter the river, so the fish evolved to protect itself by scrambling into trees. It does this with help of its pelvic fin, which evolved into a suction cup of sorts. Besides that, mudskippers spend most of their lives on land. They lay eggs in an on land burrows. The other fish is called lungfish. It lives in African rivers that are prone to drying up completely every now and again. The fish deals with that by burrowing in the riverbead. It covers itself in a coccoon of its own mucus, creating a capsule, where it falls into stasis, underground, until there is water again in the river. It can remain like this for years.

[@Squidglows]

@@Drakenwild good to know

[@mobgabriel1767]

The river/sea zora separation from the oracle games:certainly i'm invisible

[@GavinBaker-qn7tm]

4:07 Oopsie, we did a genocide! Almost made me laugh. I was not prepared burly also not paying attention

[@jiographic]

something i find interesting is that the parella, zora, and rito have been associated with all 3 goddesses/symbols at different points depending on where they live and their evolution

[@theloruleanhistorian]

What of the "noble Sea Zora" from the Zora Seas in Lanayru?

[@quinnwhitsitt]

also there is an are on the original legend of zelda that looks like a ocean

[@quinnwhitsitt]

some fish though like the sturgeon can live in fresh as well as salt water and brakish water

[@quinnwhitsitt]

also bullsharks

[@Inkdisc]

there are ocean zora in the oracle games too, tho i forget if they were exclusively ocean in them

[@Cretaceous158]

One lived in a cabin on the beach, but the rest lived in the ocean.

[@superdop100]

I love ❤️ your voice it's great unintentional asmr.

[@Drakenwild]

Thanks!

[@zaristophanes]

What accent do you have its rather unique

[@javiervasquez625]

According to her channel description she's polish. :)